View Full Version : Christian strippers
SexyJess
06-21-2004, 12:06 AM
All grammar discussions aside... :) I am a Christian stripper.
Maybe I'm just weird, but I've never had a problem separating the two worlds. Granted, I'm a bit of a liberal Christian and not one to push my religion on others. But when I get up there and dance for those men, I'm acting. I'm Putting on a show... like I think we all do at times. When I'm talking to God, it's just me and him. I just worry about me, my own soul, and my loved ones, and don't preach to the girls in the club. No one wants to get told they're sinners or going to hell for the decisions they make! Who am I to tell them how to live?
It also has a lot to do with the club I work at... very strict rules, table dancing that's light on the contact. I don't think less of the women who dance in 2 way high contact clubs, but I think if I got my breasts groped night after night and men came during my lap dances, I might feel a little more guilty...not to mention unfaithful to my guy. Just my personal thoughts, though. It all depends on how comfortable you are with the lifestyle, and yourself. Good luck!
RoseDelight
06-21-2004, 12:06 AM
Fochizzle my nizzle. English now? ::) ;) :covereyes:
Pisces3x3
06-21-2004, 12:13 AM
OK this is just going to start a flame war so I'm not even going to fall into the trap. NYC is 21 and older to buy cigs? Not the last time I went to go get a pack. As far as drinking... I grew up in Germany not in the US and guess what the drinking age is? 16. Dont even start with the argument that we are here in the US. Some of us are in different countries. Technically growing up there I was able to drink. By the way I am a bartender. Its funny how I can serve alcohol and not drink. So technically your wrong on both of those subjects LOL. I was just adding some humor to the posts but unfortunately that didnt go very far. By the way this is an "adult" internet forum meaning 18 and over. If I were 16 youd have all the right in the world to comment on my age. Im sorry thats the only thing you could come up with as a retalition. In all honesty I wasnt expecting "retaliation" at all considering I wasnt trying to offend you.... I was just being humorous. I suggest before making a comment like that you learn something about someone and their history, not just being sterotypical because of race, gender, religion, age, etc.
Fochizzle my nizzle. English now? ::) ;) :covereyes:
Blade is always sarcastic. Hun I lived in Jersey City and not even I could understand your post. Try to keep your posts in plain english please. Theres no point in bein ghetto on the net LOL.
Can we repeat that in english this time?
You people are disgusting...It's a shame that this board has stooped to the level that it has. When it's become a major problem that a significant portion of the members of this community feel alienated, disrespected and denigrated than there is a huge problem underfoot. PM's are being sent back and forth regarding poor (yet extremely common) behaviour, and the energy here just sucks in general.
All in all I can't say I really expected much from the get-go....
As for the original topic posting..........I'm sure in your career you'll come across dancers of various backgrounds and faiths. "Christianity" being a very broad label, with tons of different schools of thought I'm sure you can find a path that will allow you to pursue dancing without guilt, but you will always run into someone who insist that you aren't a "true" Christian because you dance. Just do what you are comfortable with......
And on that note, it's been entertaining, informative and at times inspiring to be a part of this community, but after taking a break for a few weeks I'm realizing that te negativity was beginning to overflow into other areas of my life. GOOD LUCK to everyone and GOOD BYE!
Blade
06-21-2004, 01:12 AM
Well Nina if you think my request to have a post retyped in a readable manner is disgusting, or that I have made anyone feel alienated, disrespected or denigrated that is your opinion and who am I to disagree? If someone has a problem with me or anything I say, I'm pretty easy to find online and I fully expect them to let me know if I offended them. I more than likely won't apologize but at least I'll know there is a problem and will do my best to avoid further contact with that person so as to not offend them further.....
I honestly hope your desicion to leave stripperweb isn't based on my posts, but if it is I guess sarcasm and humour isn't for you. Good luck to you in the future
Blade
Pisces3x3
06-21-2004, 01:14 AM
You people are disgusting...It's a shame that this board has stooped to the level that it has.
I see where the negativity comes from. Good luck and good bye!
Relating to the actual topic (for once LOL)... I dont think religion should have anything to do with your proffession. I too am a religious person although I am not Christian and I dance. Religion is on a personal basis and should not be a part of your job/professional life unless you are a priest or such. Thats just my opinion.
GoldCoastGirl
06-21-2004, 01:35 AM
Whilst I may not be Christian anymore.. I was raised Roman Catholic. It all depends if you see yourself as a conservative or liberal Christian.
If you're a conservative Christian, then stripping is going to be hell for you. It is against what you believe.
If you're a liberal Christian (these types of Christians tend to not believe in The Bible but more in the word of Jesus... such as "Love thy neighbour" etc), then you have alot more going for you.
Only liberal Christians could "survive" as strippers. You have to remember that it isn't the fact that you're taking your clothes off in front of strangers... that's not the sin. The sin is the feelings you arouse in the other person and how you will find yourself lying (even just white lies).
You need to resolve your spirituality so that you will not feel ANY guilt whilst working. If you feel ANY guilt due to working as a stripper, you won't last long.
There are Christian strippers around however they are smart about it... they keep their spirituality (the preaching part, at the very least) at home.
Personally, this is why I love being Pagan and a Witch.. I don't have to leave my spirituality at home. I actively use it at work :D which, for me, makes work more fulfilling.
polecat
06-21-2004, 03:41 AM
I know lots of Christian strippers! Of course, most of the west coasters that are religious fall very much into that "liberal Christian" category. Heck, they even have gay/lesbian churches out here.
The New Testament pretty much establishes that flesh = sin.. period. If you're walking around in your meat engine, you're going to sin and there is no way to get around it... fact of life, get used to it. It also goes about discussing how there was (and always will be) only one exception to that rule, and that dude got nailed to a hunk of wood. You establish a belief in that guy, and pay regular repentence for being flesh and all is groovin'.. rejoice in the gift you've been given. Have respect in the ethics and morals he dictated, which unadulterated or transliterated, are pretty hip and fair anyways.
I also find it pretty hard to consider a "sin" what some of the local dancers do for the lonely, older men that come in the clubs. So many are touch deprived, have very little good in their lives and find the price almost laughable by comparison to what it yields... and grateful to give such an incomparable pennance for what they gain... the ability to, for a short while, look at their world with a little more joy that the touch and attention of a woman can only provide. Some women here look at themselves as healers, and in those rare and special cases, I tend to agree.
Those few have earned to the right to wear that cross around their neck... and they are most often more adored than lusted after.
How sad that a talk about Jesus Christ turned into a arguement. Typical response when we are forced to take a look at our own lives isn't it? I can't deny Jesus Christ as my savior. If you really took the time to study, you would not be able to either. God provides the perfect instruction manual - the BIBLE. "This means ever lasting life, their taking in the knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom sent you forth, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3.)
Every time that I work, I am working so that I can have a better life, with God. Someday, when I am through grad school, I will be able to help other people to live a better life also. Stripping is a means to the end. I walk with God and my life is good.
I do talk about God at work if it is appropriate. Most people ask about my tattoo which is a symbol of recovery. This gives me an opportunity to talk about how my life has changed through a 12-step program and giving my life over to God. Most people really appreciate it especially if they are also hurting. It is a great way to spread the message. If not, they are still touched and I have accomplished something - usually giving them some comfort whether it is through the language of a table dance or my words.
My friend calls us sexual therapists. I can handle that...I know that I am on the up with God about stripping. I have suffered so much and now, I am finally at peace. It is God's will that you enjoy lasting happiness under the best conditions in wonderful surroundings. This is no mere dream, for God actually offers you the key to such a happy future. That key is knowledge.
Big D
Jay Zeno
06-21-2004, 09:05 AM
It's amusing that people would question the ability of a dancer to be a Christian, but would have no problem questioning a tobacco producer or a lawyer being Christian. Dancing itself, clothes on or not, as far as I can tell, is no violation of any commandment. Producing tobacco is more or less directly making people sick and killing them. Being a lawyer often involves "bearing false witness" in the name of advocacy.
I don't have any problems with that. It's just ironic. I've got this strange assumption that people can work whatever job they get hired for, and can believe what they want to believe.
charmedone23
06-23-2004, 10:44 AM
I was raised a fundamental baptist. I was brought up wearing long skirts and not listening to rock music. Now I am very liberal and considering universal unitarian. I will always be a christian and worship my saviour, and according to the Bible stripping and worshipping him don't go together. I however am enjoying myself and helping support my family.
Whatever you choose to be your profession, the point is to be happy.
I would much rather dance and be sexy for money than work at McDonalds, but that is just me.
erotictonic
06-23-2004, 10:55 AM
Eh, if Christianity makes you feel good, then keep it in your life. If you wanna strip and be a Christian, I don't see why not.
scorpio
06-23-2004, 11:59 PM
although I see nothing wrong with being a Christian and a stripper, I can guarantee you that "christians" will not approve. Christians are amoung the earths most hypocritical people, so be prepared. Don't change your convictions due to outside pressure. Good luck.
and according to the Bible stripping and worshipping him don't go together
this is a typical Christian lie. There is nothing in the Bible that says you should be ashamed of your body.
Madcap
06-24-2004, 12:32 AM
this is a typical Christian lie. There is nothing in the Bible that says you should be ashamed of your body.
Nope, in fact it's the other way around. In Genesis, God notices that Adam and Eve have clothes on and that's his clue that something is up. Clothes are God's first clue that there is something WRONG.
It's a wonder how most of the real rabid fundamentalists don't even read their own bible. I have a love for old stories, and the bible is cool in it's way. I don't believe any of it particularly, just consider the Old Testament a mix of myth and history the same way the Illiad is. But i can run loops around 99% of the door to door Jesus salesmen biblically.
Here's where it says in the bible that wearing clothes "was" NOT what people "were intended" to do (According to Myth). So all the morality-bigmouths can just shove it.
Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
Genesis 3:9 And the lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Genesis 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Genesis 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
scorpio
06-24-2004, 08:27 AM
this implies that you take the bible as a literal work, which is mistake number one.
this implies that you take the bible as a literal work, which is mistake number one.
Sorry, I don't agree.
Literal:a : according with the letter of the scriptures b : adhering to fact or to the ordinary construction or primary meaning of a term or expression : ACTUAL <liberty in the literal sense is impossible -- B. N. Cardozo> c : free from exaggeration or embellishment <the literal truth> d : characterized by a concern mainly with facts
The bible is almost 2,000 years old. When it comes to human nature, the Bible reflects keen understanding that applies to every generation of man. Look at Jesus' sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5 - 7.) This sermon so impressed Mohandas K. Gandhi that he reportedly told a British official: "When your country and mine shall get together on the teachings laid down by Christ in this Sermon on the Mount, we shall have solved the problems not only of our countries but those of the whole world."
The Bible is not a science textbook but it is scientifically accurate. Ex: At a time when most people believed that the earth was flat, the prophet Isaiah referred to it as a "circle." (Isaiah 40:22) The idea of sperical earth was not widely accepted until thousands of years after Isaiah. Job 26:7, writen more than 3,000 years ago, states that God is "hanging the earth upon nothing. How Job knew the truth, demonstrated by astronomy, that the earth hangs self-poised in emopty space, is a question not easily solved by those who deny the inspiration of Holy Scripture.
Strengthening our confidence in the Bible are the events covered, linking specific people and dates. (1Kings 14:25; Isaiah 36:1; Luke 3:1,2)
Fulfilled prophecy gives conclusive evidence that the Bible is inspired of God. The Bible contains many prophecies that have been fulfilled in detail.
Ex: The fall of Babylon Isaiah and Jeremiah both foretold Babylon's fall to the Medes and the Persians. Isaiah's prophecy about the event was recorded 200 years before Babylon was conquered. Other prophecy's are now matter of historical record: drying up of the Euphrated River (Isaiah 44:27; Jeremiah 50:38); a careless lack of security at Babylon's river gates (Isaiah 45:1); and the conquest by a ruler named Cyrus. Isaiah 44:28.
Ex2: The rise and fall of the "king of Greece." (Daniel 8:1-8, 20-22.)
Ex3: The life of Jesus Christ. Hebrew scriptures (Genesis through Malachi) contain propheicies fulfilled in the birth, ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus. More than 700 years in advance, Micah foretold that the Messiah, or Christ would be born in Bethleham (Micah 5:2; Luke 2:4-7.) Isaiah foretold that the messiah would be struck and spit upon (Isaiah 50:6; Matthew 26:67.) Five hundred years in advance, Zechariah phrophesied that the Messiah would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12; Matthew 26:15.)
Etc...
Whew! There is so much literal proof of the accuracy of the Bible that it cannot be denied.
Big D :blindfold:
How do we know that the Bible is literal?
It is inspired of God.
It was written over a period of 16 centuries, by some 40 contributors from diverse backgrounds. However, the finished product is harmonious from beginning to end.
The Bible has survived more controversy that any other book. During the Middle Ages, people were burned at the stake simply for possessing a copy of the Scriptures.
The Bible is the number one best-seller in the world. It has been translated, in whole or in part, into over 2,000 languages. Billions of copies have been printed and can be found everywhere on earth.
The oldest portion of the Bible dates back to 16th century BCE - before hindu Rig-Veda (1300 BCE), Buddhist "Canon of the Three Baskets" (5th centure BCE) and Shinto Nihongi (720 CE.)
Sitri
06-24-2004, 11:31 AM
Well, I would say that as a Christian, I have spent a year recently just going through the bible in a class. I have just scratched the surface of what I do not know.
Responding to the comments by Scorpio.
Is the Bible literal? no.
Is it entirely accurate? no. If you look at Genesis, there are two different creation stories. Similar, but different in terms of sequence of creation. In the new testament, if you cross reference the same stories from the different Apostles, there are differences in the facts of the same story.
Is it about perfect people?
You can find stories about a daughter-in-law getting pregnant by her father-in-law because she disguised herself as a prostitute.
Genisis 38:13 When Tamar was told, "Your father-in-law is on his way to Timnah to shear his sheep," 14 she took off her widow's clothes, covered herself with a veil to disguise herself, and then sat down at the entrance to Enaim, which is on the road to Timnah. For she saw that, though Shelah had now grown up, she had not been given to him as his wife.
15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face. 16 Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside and said, "Come now, let me sleep with you."
"And what will you give me to sleep with you?" she asked.
About three months later Judah was told, "Your daughter-in-law Tamar is guilty of prostitution, and as a result she is now pregnant." Judah said, "Bring her out and have her burned to death!"
You can see how the story ends for yourself. But to me, the Bible is all about faith and the people who found faith and redemption. It is not about perfect people. Because people are not perfect.
Let me ask this question? If you were to interview the nuclear physicist that invented the atom bomb, and he had to describe to you how the bomb was built, and you had to write it down, and then tell other people about how it was built, how accurate would you be?
If people then pointed out that some of the directions were inaccurate, does that mean that the bomb or the physicist do not exist or never existed? Have you actually seen a nuclear bomb? Do you believe it exists? Why? When it blows your ass up, will you believe it then?
Are some Christians hypocrites? Yes, probably by definition.. If you define a hypocrite as aspiring to be one thing and acting another way at times. However, aspiring to be better and not achieving it is better in my opinion that aspiring to be nothing and achieving it.
Are all Christians hypocrites? No.
Are we all sinners? Yes.
Now whether you believe in Christianity, or Judaism, or whatever, I would say it is wise not to make blanket statements about what others believe is sacred or true. If you don't believe it, fine, but you have no expertise to discount it. You may want to preface it with IMHO. At least you are welcome to an opinion.
And to the people on this board that are Christians or want to have faith in something more than the dollar and happen to dance, I applaud them. And to those who don't, it is not my role to judge or convince. At least not until I am perfect.. ha ha.
Just a thought.
Madcap
06-24-2004, 12:34 PM
this implies that you take the bible as a literal work, which is mistake number one.
Actually, i give it as much credence as I give any other old story. There's a nugget of truth in there like all Myths (I.E. There's no doubt in my mind that there was a real person on whom the legend of King David, for instance, is based on. But something tells me it didn't quite take 3,000 guys to get Sampson off the hill if you know what i mean, and since there isn't a stitch of evidence for a Global flood i sinply don't think it ever happened, but i'll bet something happened to inspire the legend).
In case anyone hasn't guessed, i'm not Christian, Jewish, or [Insert religion here]. Just an Agnostic that likes to read.
bjmcinti~
There are some serious scientific innacuracies in there as well... Bats are not Birds, for instance, Leviticus classifies them with Birds. Rabbits also don't chew cud, the bible says they do.
A couple of mistakes in the bible don't mean there is no God, as the bible simply isn't required to be 100% perfect to get the message across. But some of those tales in the early Old Testament simply don't have any relevance to the modern era (Cool as they are). When talking about the Philosopher we commonly call Jesus, i'd have a harder time arguing with you.
VenusGoddess
06-24-2004, 12:50 PM
I don't believe in the bible. I don't read it anymore. I don't believe in sin. What I do believe is the natural order of the universe. Nothing is good or bad...it is all consequences...choices. Everything is how you FEEL about it.
I believe in a kind and caring God and I believe that since we were given freedom of choice for life, there is no such thing as sin. Some people agree with it and some people do not. That's really all it is. I dance because I like to dance (and the money is nice, as well). It does not make me a sinner. It makes me someone who made a choice in my life as to what I wish to experience. I think that as soon as people give up this whole "born as sinners" bullshit, they would learn that life is meant for experience and learning. Not spending your days in a building trying to repent for something that God (in my beliefs) will never hold over your head to begin with. That's my opinion and views on it all (in a very small nutshell).
On with your regularly scheduled program.
Madcap
06-24-2004, 12:57 PM
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
;D
this implies that you take the bible as a literal work, which is mistake number one.
Actually, i give it as much credence as I give any other old story. There's a nugget of truth in there like all Myths (I.E. There's no doubt in my mind that there was a real person on whom the legend of King David, for instance, is based on. But something tells me it didn't quite take 3,000 guys to get Sampson off the hill if you know what i mean, and since there isn't a stitch of evidence for a Global flood i sinply don't think it ever happened, but i'll bet something happened to inspire the legend).
In case anyone hasn't guessed, i'm not Christian, Jewish, or [Insert religion here]. Just an Agnostic that likes to read.
bjmcinti~
There are some serious scientific innacuracies in there as well... Bats are not Birds, for instance, Leviticus classifies them with Birds. Rabbits also don't chew cud, the bible says they do.
A couple of mistakes in the bible don't mean there is no God, as the bible simply isn't required to be 100% perfect to get the message across. But some of those tales in the early Old Testament simply don't have any relevance to the modern era (Cool as they are). When talking about the Philosopher we commonly call Jesus, i'd have a harder time arguing with you.
:cutie:Actually MC, they do if you consider the basic fundamentals of what they are saying. All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial.
No need to argue...it is so easy and it costs nothing to believe. :puckerup:
Big d
Madcap
06-24-2004, 08:44 PM
:cutie:Actually MC, they do if you consider the basic fundamentals of what they are saying. All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial.
No need to argue...it is so easy and it costs nothing to believe. :puckerup:
Big d
Yeah, it's great if it's what gets you through the day. It's a shitty planet at times, and any help is welcome. My problem is this, the Arthurian Cycle also has a lot of relevance when you consider the basic fundamentals, the Myths about Asgard and Midgard (Norse) also do. Any Myth or legend contains a nugget of truth that is so important that it doesn't matter whether the actual story containing it is literal truth. Myths are like that.
But me thinking like that doesn't lend me towards believing the Judeo-Christian ones (Please take no offense to me refering to the OT as 'myth,' i just do that because that is how i look at it).
But, I agree, there is no need to argue.
scarlett_vancouver
06-25-2004, 12:09 AM
too lazy to read the whole thread, but has there been a link to www.lightdancers.org yet? omg it's a riot. It's all about helping strippers 'find the light'!
best quote: "ain't NO sugar daddy that can compare to MY Daddy"! (ref. christ).
There's even a section that teaches customers how to 'save' us!
http://www.lightdancers.org/customer.html
Madcap
06-25-2004, 12:11 AM
There's even a section that teaches customers how to 'save' us!
Is there no section on how to save the customer?
Sitri
06-25-2004, 06:19 AM
too lazy to read the whole thread, but has there been a link to yet? omg it's a riot. It's all about helping strippers 'find the light'!
best quote: "ain't NO sugar daddy that can compare to MY Daddy"! (ref. christ).
There's even a section that teaches customers how to 'save' us!
Scarlett, Thanks for the link. It is really good.
kitana
06-25-2004, 06:45 AM
OK Dallas pleas don't get upset but you said it yourself the Bible has been translated into over 2000 different languages, so how do we know exactly what we are reading in english is what it really says? There are tons of Jewish words that just can not be translated into english and vise/versa. I mean look at the Jehovah's Witnesses for goodness sakes, isn't the name of God supposta be unpronanceable(sp)? I simply choose not to believe in a book that may not be accurate. Along with the fact that is has been proven that there are missing texts out of the Bible that will never be shown or added or "found". I mean really, come on. Where are those missing texts anyway? For example where are the texts about Jesus and his growing up? In the Bible he goes from 12 to 30ish. And what's up with King(we all know who) changing the Bible to suit his own purposes?! I just refuse to follow some preacher and his idea of what is going on.
I am more of a spiritulist in that aspect. But hey, for all the girls who want to dance and keep their religion, I'm all for it as long as you don't try to save my damned soul. (and yes I have heard that before; just 'cause of the way I dress and the music I listen to). Go figure cause you wear all black and dance to Type O-, or Ozzy they think you're into Satan.
Kitana
too lazy to read the whole thread, but has there been a link to www.lightdancers.org yet? omg it's a riot. It's all about helping strippers 'find the light'!
best quote: "ain't NO sugar daddy that can compare to MY Daddy"! (ref. christ).
There's even a section that teaches customers how to 'save' us!
http://www.lightdancers.org/customer.html
[/quote
Well, I think this org is very drastic. I know the girl in Denver who "preaches" to other lost dancers. She is listed on the site as the Colorado outreach person. They have helped a few girls turn their lives around which is their main focus. They want to help us poor, sick, lost women leave the world of stripping and turn to a life in Jesus Christ. When I was new into sobriety, I contacted her. We met for lunch and all she did was talk about her own life. She did not ask me how she could help me. Now, this person and I had been friends and co-workers in the late 80's and man was she a money maker! She is married to a local lawyer and has taken on this cause. As a stay at home mom, her life is nice and plush and I couldn't see her putting a whole lot of effort into helping me! As we sat there, me in my sweats and her in her nice suit and rolex, I began to see how their program might be a little cultish. If they help you, you have to give up everything that you own in the world. You go to live in one of their houses, study the Bible and in a year, are free to leave. They will provide everything for you. Fuck that!
If you read the manual, it talks about us as if we are pure evil. I don't know how people who give so much could be evil. While I did agree with being a little hard and having life experiences that are bad, working a 12-step program has worked for me. :angel:
Big D
OK Dallas pleas don't get upset but you said it yourself the Bible has been translated into over 2000 different languages, so how do we know exactly what we are reading in english is what it really says?
Kitana - this means that it is available in over 2,000 different languages.
There are tons of Jewish words that just can not be translated into english and vise/versa. I mean look at the Jehovah's Witnesses for goodness sakes, isn't the name of God supposta be unpronanceable(sp)?
JW's name for Jesus Christ is Jehovah.
I simply choose not to believe in a book that may not be accurate. Along with the fact that is has been proven that there are missing texts out of the Bible that will never be shown or added or "found". I mean really, come on.
Kit - this is your choice. The Bible is written in honest and candid language. The events covered are linked to specific people and dates. I have not heard of missing texts.
Where are those missing texts anyway? For example where are the texts about Jesus and his growing up? In the Bible he goes from 12 to 30ish. And what's up with King(we all know who) changing the Bible to suit his own purposes?! I just refuse to follow some preacher and his idea of what is going on.
I don't follow a preacher either. I lead a life guided by Jesus Christ who is a much better decision maker than I. JC who restored my health and gave me back my sanity. Have you never had a spiritual experience? I am not trying to save your soul, only you can do that, if you feel the need. This particular forum was for Christian dancers to talk about their love of Jesus Christ. As in all of the other threads, you are welcome to participate. I am sorry to have cause you discomfort. Big D
I am more of a spiritulist in that aspect. But hey, for all the girls who want to dance and keep their religion, I'm all for it as long as you don't try to save my damned soul. (and yes I have heard that before; just 'cause of the way I dress and the music I listen to). Go figure cause you wear all black and dance to Type O-, or Ozzy they think you're into Satan.
Kitana
Madcap
06-25-2004, 11:24 AM
isn't the name of God supposta be unpronanceable(sp)?
It's pretty funky from looking at it on paper at least. YHWH.
YHWH????
How on earth is that pronounced???
("Yaweh", is the pronounciation, 'Jehova' comes from a mistranslation of YHWH)
Not to mention that the words "Jesus" and "Christ" are both Greek titles, and that no-one had a surname until around the 14th century... The Philosopher we know as Jesus was actually named "Yeshua" (That's the pronunciation, the actual spelling is a bit longer and escapes me as i type), it's a varuant of Joshua and a common name at the time.
Just FYI.
hardkandee
06-25-2004, 11:31 AM
The YHWH or "Yaweh" is just the English transliteration of the Hebrew word used in the Torah as one of the "names" of God. It was never intended to be the "name" of God. At this point in time supposedly, no one knows the "real" name. Apparently it died out with the Kabbalistic rabbis that used it (it was used as sort of a magic word in mystical practices). And no, I'm not talking about Maddona's so called Kabbalah.
BTW, I'm Jewish...
Madcap
06-25-2004, 11:34 AM
Yeah, well, i can't argue with that.
God supposedly has a zillion names. The true (REAL) one being so long that a human could supposedly not pronounce it within their lifetime. But so far as i have heard YHWH was the closest.
Now, there are probably others as well. But "Jehova" is not and never was a name for God (There is no "J" in the Hebrew alphabet for starts)
hardkandee
06-25-2004, 11:43 AM
Nope, no J in the Hebrew alphabet, but the "Y" has been converted over to the J in many other instances. Joshua was really Y'hoshua and Benjamin, Benyamin.
I'm getting off topic aren't I. :whistleblower:
Madcap
06-25-2004, 12:07 PM
"Y'hoshua"
Hey that might be the spelling i was looking for for "Yeshua!" I've seen it spelled weirder, but that looks right!
Juliette_deSade
06-25-2004, 12:37 PM
That's how they pronounced it in Bible study. . .Yeshua.
According to Christianity, we all fall short of the glory of God. No one can match the impeccability of Jesus. It's hopelesss. The key to salvation is our faith. Good deeds won't get you into heaven, badness won't send you to hell. You have to deal with this little insignificant blue-green planet like every other person.
On this plane, I strip to make money. I have to "sin" just to stay alive, because I'm no Messiah. Reality demands that I do what I must to pay my bills and make money. I feel no guilt. Sometimes disgust in the men I dance for. They fall short too, but if the man playing with your tits and pissing you off believes in the power of the Christ, he is saves too. Everybody in the world is a little fucked up. Taht's what redemption was for.
This is just my viewpoint on the subject. I know I am lacking. But it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.
Madcap
06-26-2004, 12:34 AM
The key to salvation is our faith. Good deeds won't get you into heaven, badness won't send you to hell.
That is a major point of contention that i have with christianity. James (My namesake) and Paul went around the block over that in the first century, James says works, Paul says faith, it's a debate that has carried on into the 21st century. Works or faith.
Sorry, but i'll take James (Natch), Fuck faith, lemme see what your faith does in the real world.
No offense. I just get sick of seeing killers use "I found Jesus" to get out of the electric chair.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Case rested.
EDIT: Juliett, this was NOT aimed at you. Only Paul.
Madcap
06-26-2004, 12:46 AM
Lets compare James with paul...
Here's paul, James is above...
1st Coronthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
If i ever had to the case is rested. Yeshua would have been apalled. In my opinon, Paul hijacked Christianity. Jesus (the man we call Jesus) wanted women to speak. He answered the questions they had. I totally respect Yeshua.
Butchee
06-26-2004, 05:23 AM
There's alot of constantly mad and angry people out there they need some kinda help.
Madcap
06-26-2004, 12:10 PM
There's alot of constantly mad and angry people out there they need some kinda help.
Well, now that we've heard from the peanut gallery....
Djoser
06-26-2004, 12:41 PM
Yeshua would have been apalled. In my opinon, Paul hijacked Christianity. Jesus (the man we call Jesus) wanted women to speak. He answered the questions they had. I totally respect Yeshua.
What we call Christianity today is in effect the result of a massive and overwhelmingly successful PR blitz by Paul and those like him. If you read Roman history as written by the Romans you can see this more clearly.
You will also realize that the ultimate dogma held to today could easily have been quite different. Arianism, a much more reasonable and logical view of the nature of Christ, came within a hair's breadth of winning out. Unfortunately, politics didn't go their way, so a whole lot of them enjoyed the Christian, forgiving reward of being burnt alive--a fate shared by tens of thousands who died during the Middle Ages for not believing in Jesus correctly.
Juliette_deSade
06-26-2004, 02:32 PM
That is a major point of contention you have against Christianity. I hate religion but love God. Those who run the PR biz also make the rules. I prefer the part of the gospel that says: For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. that is from Luke. Meaning, he was NOT sent down to punish and condemn, but to give relief to those who need it most.
Judge lest ye not be judged. Our relationship with God is very personal. I don't understand God and don't assume I do. To show how personal it is, the relationship we have with God nearly mirrors the relationship we have with our father in the physical world. My father is endlessly forgiving and understanding, so that is what my God is to me.
I took no offense at your post, Madcap! express ypurself :)!
Madcap
06-26-2004, 09:40 PM
I took no offense at your post, Madcap! express ypurself :)!
Cool. I can get blunt and that sometimes gets me into trouble.
This is actually a pretty cool discussion.
Madcap
06-26-2004, 11:22 PM
Incidentally,
I used to manage an MSN comminuty called Atheist Vs God (I didn't create it, nor am I an Atheist) It was a little like handling fireworks. I demoted myself because it became too much like work.
Sitri
06-27-2004, 06:59 PM
Incidentally,
I used to manage an MSN comminuty called Atheist Vs God (I didn't create it, nor am I an Atheist) It was a little like handling fireworks. I demoted myself because it became too much like work.
That would be interesting. I can imagine there were lots of athiests, but who played GOD? Sometimes I believe that because we can communicate, we believe we can think like God and argue as God would. Of course, God would not argue...
In my opinion, we can never fully understand Him and that is why we need to have faith. It would be like two dogs arguing what a man believes and how he acts... does that make sense. Or maybe a 5 year old explaining his parents.
How can people look at everything that exists and how it relates and believe that this is a random event?
But, to each his own and in his own time.
Madcap
06-27-2004, 07:04 PM
How can people look at everything that exists and how it relates and believe that this is a random event?
Actually, that's a misconception that the fundies like to spread around. Evolution is far from random. Just because there isn't something making every evolutionary decision doesn't make it random, there isn't someone up there carving each snowflake either, and those are far from random.
GoldCoastGirl
06-27-2004, 08:52 PM
Whilst I may not be Christian, I was in my previous life (you could say). I was raised Roman Catholic.. was baptised, experienced First Communion and even Confirmation.
It was after Confirmation that I started to awaken and have since chosen my own path (where actions speak louder than words - I believe you get what you give).
The religion of Christianity is screwed up.
The spirituality of Christianity is not.
Religion is something that is made by us humans. Spirituality is not - it is personal, more akin to a feeling.. "faith" "belief" etc.
The spirituality of Christianity is different to the religion. It is the religion I have problems with not the spirituality.
All in all I've been enjoying this thread as I've always wondered how one can be Christian and a stripper without felling immense guilt (due to inspiring lust and other sinful emotions from patrons etc).
Madcap
06-27-2004, 09:44 PM
The religion of Christianity is screwed up.
The spirituality of Christianity is not.
Good thought.
Sitri
06-28-2004, 06:55 AM
How can people look at everything that exists and how it relates and believe that this is a random event?
Actually, that's a misconception that the fundies like to spread around. Evolution is far from random. Just because there isn't something making every evolutionary decision doesn't make it random, there isn't someone up there carving each snowflake either, and those are far from random.
I will ignore the fundie comment as I am not one or a literalist.
But if you look at a set of tinker toys, you can build a lot of stuff with it right. And if you build a great big tinker toy ferris wheel, you will probably feel that your created the ferris wheel..
But, Who created the whole concept of tinker toys and how they fit together? Didn't that inventor in fact enable all of these things to be made by designing the concept of tinker toys?
We know that we are all built off of DNA. Even with Eve, God did not go "presto chango". He took a rib and in today's terms cloned it."
But for Adam [8] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [9] and closed up the place with flesh.
22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [10] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. "
And if you look at the sequencing of creation, doesn't evolution make sense from the broader context of animals.
The whole literal 7 day thing in my opinion has got to go. Obviously, an earth day could not even exist until "Day 4".
Here is the link from the creation study committee ..they have quite a few comments.
But without the debate on irrelevent details i.e. the number of days, etc. The real question is this. Did human beings evolve or were human beings created separately from the rest of the animals? Yes, genetically we are very similar. Compared to a potato we are 50% close. But, is there something special about a human being? Does our physical design have any relevance to our spiritual design?
I guess I believe there is something special about being human. The capacity to love and hate, to learn and communicate, to wage war, to look at the stars and change the world are traits that are not exhibited by any other species.
I am not implying that what we do is right, I am only saying that we have the choice to do good or evil and that we have a soul. And that is what makes human beings different. If you believe you have a soul, then you probably believe in God. I make this statement because you can analyze the biology of organisms and the chemistry, but, you can not define a soul in terms of evolution and science. If you can, I am listening. What would a soul evolve from?
Now, whether you believe in religion and which one is right or wrong is not relevant to your primary question of is there a God because these are institutions run by (wo)men and are subject to the ignorance and imperfection of (wo)men. So, they are not perfect. But, they do serve a purpose.
But the following link is the one you want to follow... The best one (so far) I have found in providing source material and debate.
Finally, the reality is that as we argue and debate it is between human beings. The monkeys, dogs, cats, and even parrots are quite silent in wondering where they came from and does God exist. Unless you believe in Mr. Ed..the talking horse. hehe. When I start debates with monkeys and dogs I may have to review my viewpoint. Sort of like Planet of the Apes. ;D
Madcap
06-28-2004, 11:02 AM
the "fundie" comment is strictly reserved for the people who think "Left Behind" should be in the non-fiction aisle.
Once, in waldenbooks, a woman threw a bitch fit because the bible was in the "Religious" section with the other religious books, rather than in the "History" section, that's more or less who I am talking about. It's not a dig at you or anyone else who doesn't deserve it.
(Incidentally, they had to call security on that lady)
Sitri
06-28-2004, 12:12 PM
Hey Madcap... no problem. I did not take it that way.. Just wanted to clarify my position.
It is sad that there are people who use religion to separate themselves from others instead of practicing the two main commandments.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal, Pensees, 1670
In the new testament (which supercedes the old testament) There are only two commandments.. love God and love your neighbor.
"For all the law is fulfilled in one word: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." - Galatians 5:14
As soon as I get loving other accomplished then I can start worrying about all of the other nuances.. ha ha. ;)
Madcap
06-28-2004, 11:21 PM
In the new testament (which supercedes the old testament) There are only two commandments.. love God and love your neighbor.
Yeshua didn't think so. In fact he insisted that heaven and earth would pass away before one jot passed from the law. In fact he chided people for not following the levitican law.
If you want i can post the verses.