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davka
10-25-2008, 01:47 AM
Strip clubs are for men to unwind...whoever owns the club decides what and who he wants in the club, thats the whole reason for owning a club in the first place...socially speaking, normally whites like to be around mostly whites and blacks to be around mostly blacks...and it goes the same for most nationalities or ethnic groups

If you are a good looking girl of any color you are going to make your money...Esp if your are in big market cities like ATL or Wash DC there are plenty of black clubs to dance at as well as clubs with blacks whites and all nationalities

I think if you are a black girl then you shouldn't have a problem at black clubs ...and if you are trying to work at some predominantly white clubs where they obviously don't want you there then you are probably going to always have some problems.

yay! how universal! racism doesn't exist! laaadeedaaah i love stripclubs. racism just disappears!

::)

lafemmediva
10-25-2008, 12:58 PM
Its all about sales, I am latin and dont experience racial issues.

xsomnambulist
10-25-2008, 06:31 PM
Its all about sales, I am latin and dont experience racial issues.

All about sales? Tell me how I could avoided being called a "National Geographic nigger bitch" by a guy who tried his hardest to fuck me after a series of dances, but got declined.

Theoretically, yes, it is all about sales, but that's in theory alone. In practice?
*chuckles*
I've been asked to do pretty degrading things because some people in the area haven't seen black women nude, or haven't slept with a black woman, haven't interacted with us, etc.

I will not jeopardize my integrity, I will not undermine who I am, I will not make a coon of myself -- a caricature -- for some asshole who doesn't realize that we're all people. Theoretically I could, but I have more respect for myself than that.

Yeah, I won't even front: I've turned a renowned racist regular of my club onto me, just by being myself -- not by degrading myself to conform to his standard of what black people should be or by quenching his depraved curiosities, and yes: it is partially about sales.

...but I'd never, ever go as far as saying that in practical experience, it is all about sales.

Otoki
10-25-2008, 11:48 PM
Its all about sales, I am latin and dont experience racial issues.
... Have you been reading the thread at all? This has been chock-full of incidents of obvious racism. I've experienced a little bit for my background, but mostly I've observed racism towards other girls. If you haven't experienced it, congrats. I'm sure all the latinas on the site will be curious about where you work.

Otoki
10-25-2008, 11:49 PM
All about sales? Tell me how I could avoided being called a "National Geographic nigger bitch" by a guy who tried his hardest to fuck me after a series of dances, but got declined.

Theoretically, yes, it is all about sales, but that's in theory alone. In practice?
*chuckles*
I've been asked to do pretty degrading things because some people in the area haven't seen black women nude, or haven't slept with a black woman, haven't interacted with us, etc.

I will not jeopardize my integrity, I will not undermine who I am, I will not make a coon of myself -- a caricature -- for some asshole who doesn't realize that we're all people. Theoretically I could, but I have more respect for myself than that.

Yeah, I won't even front: I've turned a renowned racist regular of my club onto me, just by being myself -- not by degrading myself to conform to his standard of what black people should be or by quenching his depraved curiosities, and yes: it is partially about sales.

...but I'd never, ever go as far as saying that in practical experience, it is all about sales.
This is an excellent post that really hits on some issues that were bothering me. It's the way I feel when guys thing I'm "not Asian enough" or "don't look it" etc etc. Just because they expect those stereotypes doesn't mean I'll give in to their offensive expectations. Don't even get me started on the Jewish shit.

xsomnambulist
10-26-2008, 03:08 AM
...................

lafemmediva
10-26-2008, 03:11 AM
You people are taking it too seriously, focusing on so much negativity, WOW. How sad. No wonder why you dont make $.
That will only bring you such in your whole life. And I am being nice by saying this. I am honest. I am not here to tell you how much I 'feel 4 ya'.
Who cares? Whatever you complain about noone cares, do you actually think people on a global website care? Come on girl. Dont look for pitiness, look for a solution:
I dont care but I got to be blunt, and the ones agreeing with you are the same, looking to complain on the net for an issue they cant solve, leave it alone! F* it, they like whites or blondes or asians or arabics then be at the right place!
So just do your best, have a healthy mind, make your $ and go home, and forget the day, its SALES, be smart, have a right mindset. It is sales and yiou cant take it so personal. LOL
And if doesnt work look for a better place otherwise, it aint the biz for you baby, maybe social services will be a better biz for you people, woops! sorry but not sorry.
Its your way of seeing things that get you so anxious, blaming the world instead of looking in yourselves, be responsible for your life instead of blaming the world for some little BS issue. Look for the solution, not the problem.. Locos!

xsomnambulist
10-26-2008, 03:23 AM
You people are taking it too seriously, focusing on so much negativity, WOW. How sad. No wonder why you dont make $.
That will only bring you such in your whole life. And I am being nice by saying this. I am honest. I am not here to tell you how much I 'feel 4 ya'.
Who cares? Whatever you complain about noone cares, do you actually think people on a global website care? Come on girl. Dont look for pitiness, look for a solution:
I dont care but I got to be blunt, and the ones agreeing with you are the same, looking to complain on the net for an issue they cant solve, leave it alone! F* it, they like whites or blondes or asians or arabics then be at the right place!
So just do your best, have a healthy mind, make your $ and go home, and forget the day, its SALES, be smart, have a right mindset. It is sales and yiou cant take it so personal. LOL
And if doesnt work look for a better place otherwise, it aint the biz for you baby, maybe social services will be a better biz for you people, woops! sorry but not sorry.
Its your way of seeing things that get you so anxious, blaming the world instead of looking in yourselves, be responsible for your life instead of blaming the world for some little BS issue. Look for the solution, not the problem.. Locos!

Firstly, who ever said ANY of us didn't make money?

I have grievances, but that doesn't mean I'm a bad sales person, that I'm taking it personally, or that I'm not a top earner. I am. Not every customer at my club is a douche, some go above and beyond that mark.
I rant. I vent. I don't need your "pitiness." I blame myself when necessary (ie, I analyze the situation, how I handled it, how the customer in question reacted to various other dancers). I still make bank. Deal with it.

I think that your overall analysis is banal and shallow.

You go on ignore, because you're not saying anything.

lafemmediva
10-26-2008, 03:24 AM
... Have you been reading the thread at all? This has been chock-full of incidents of obvious racism. I've experienced a little bit for my background, but mostly I've observed racism towards other girls. If you haven't experienced it, congrats. I'm sure all the latinas on the site will be curious about where you work.
Thats my secret baby. Never give the secret of the sausage. Muah!

lafemmediva
10-26-2008, 03:28 AM
Firstly, who ever said ANY of us didn't make money?

I have grievances, but that doesn't mean I'm a bad sales person, that I'm taking it personally, or that I'm not a top earner. I am. Not every customer at my club is a douche, some go above and beyond that mark.
I rant. I vent. I don't need your "pitiness." I blame myself when necessary (ie, I analyze the situation, how I handled it, how the customer in question reacted to various other dancers). I still make bank. Deal with it.

I think that your overall analysis is banal and shallow.

You go on ignore, because you're not saying anything.

Sorry you feel this way, remember is the way you feel, and your angry thoughts are making you respond back to my web response. Adios! I know truth hurts :'( Sometimes you got to say it and take it in. Its ok, I understand. }:D

xsomnambulist
10-26-2008, 03:33 AM
Sorry you feel this way, remember is the way you feel, and your angry thoughts are making you respond back to my web response. Adios! I know truth hurts :'( Sometimes you got to say it and take it in. Its ok, I understand. }:D


Angry thoughts made me reply!
Not logic! No!
Not rhyme! No!
Not reason! Hellz to the naw!
It was my angry thoughts from my unhealthy mind!
Thank you for your help, lafemmediva! Thank you!
Perhaps I will go into social work as you suggested!

/asshattery

Sadly you don't know the truth, as demonstrated by your posts.

...and equally as sad is the fact that this back-and-forth that we're having is completely fruitless. It ends here.

MoetATL07
10-26-2008, 06:45 AM
Okay now who the fuck is this chick.

davka
10-26-2008, 01:17 PM
I love it how discussions of racism become "oh you're so negative!" Fucking please. No one said they didn't make any money. No one said it isn't about sales.

Lafemmediva is obviously a troll and can't spell or make sense.

Somna, you said it completely. No one was saying that women of color can't make bank and own the joint. I am just saying that these things need to be addressed and confronted and pretending they aren't there doesn't make the world better.

reese_x_c
10-26-2008, 02:10 PM
F* it, they like whites or blondes or asians or arabics then be at the right place!
So just do your best, have a healthy mind, make your $ and go home, and forget the day, its SALES, be smart, have a right mindset. It is sales and yiou cant take it so personal. LOL
And if doesnt work look for a better place otherwise, it aint the biz for you baby, maybe social services will be a better biz for you people, woops! sorry but not sorry.
Its your way of seeing things that get you so anxious, blaming the world instead of looking in yourselves, be responsible for your life instead of blaming the world for some little BS issue. Look for the solution, not the problem.. Locos!

This isn't a discussion on preferences, it's about outright racism. If a customer doesn't like my "type", that's fine, but they don't have to call me a nigger to let me know that.Not only do I get to be called horrible names, but now it's my fault as well..damn you sure did enlighten me today::)

davka
10-26-2008, 06:22 PM
SERIOUSLY!! I hate nothing more than this attitude that racism isn't real and it's all in someone's head. What fucking world does she live in? The solution is to articulate the problem and to promote awareness of it and not stand for it. That is the ONLY solution. This is not in anybody's head. I met some dancers who felt bad saying the word "racism" because dumb bitches like lafemmediva told them if they did they were being negative.

CherryRain
10-26-2008, 09:01 PM
Its all about sales, I am latin and dont experience racial issues.

I agree...everybody knows that racism exists, but so what...you just need to know where to work...seek out the good people and don't waste time fighting the bad ones

if you're black living in the racist backwoods maybe you should save money and move somewhere where there is more black clubs or to a bigger city where people in general are a little more sophisticated..after that its all about your looks and your selling ability

otherwise a dancer trying to change some peoples racist social habits or a racist clubs hiring practices will be difficult to do...

reese_x_c
10-26-2008, 09:44 PM
otherwise a dancer trying to change some peoples racist social habits or a racist clubs hiring practices will be difficult to do...
While it may be diificult it doesn't mean it isn't worth the fight. Just imagine the state the world would be in if people shied away from these types of issues because they are "difficult".

Elvia
10-26-2008, 09:56 PM
^^^Very well said.

miabella
10-26-2008, 10:38 PM
a dancer of color (especially a black dancer of color) has to change racist habits just to freaking make sales consistently and reliably. so i don't want to hear about how 'you just need to have a better attitude'.

just presenting yourself as a symbol of sexual desirability in a world where the blonde with giant boobs is the definitive beauty standard is 'difficult'.

racism exists in clubs. dancers of color can still (through hustling harder) do very well anyhow. but there are fewer places to work, there are fewer opportunities to get paid 500 or even 1k an hour in a champagne room for just chitchat, there are fewer chances to work in low or zero contact environments and bank.

you can be honest about the racism in the industry and still encourage dancers of color to maximise their earnings in the industry.

Otoki
10-27-2008, 01:07 AM
You people are taking it too seriously, focusing on so much negativity, WOW. How sad. No wonder why you dont make $.
That will only bring you such in your whole life. And I am being nice by saying this. I am honest. I am not here to tell you how much I 'feel 4 ya'.
Who cares? Whatever you complain about noone cares, do you actually think people on a global website care? Come on girl. Dont look for pitiness, look for a solution:
I dont care but I got to be blunt, and the ones agreeing with you are the same, looking to complain on the net for an issue they cant solve, leave it alone! F* it, they like whites or blondes or asians or arabics then be at the right place!
So just do your best, have a healthy mind, make your $ and go home, and forget the day, its SALES, be smart, have a right mindset. It is sales and yiou cant take it so personal. LOL
And if doesnt work look for a better place otherwise, it aint the biz for you baby, maybe social services will be a better biz for you people, woops! sorry but not sorry.
Its your way of seeing things that get you so anxious, blaming the world instead of looking in yourselves, be responsible for your life instead of blaming the world for some little BS issue. Look for the solution, not the problem.. Locos!http://samuelpablo.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/epic_fail.jpg

lafemmediva
10-27-2008, 01:27 AM
I agree...everybody knows that racism exists, but so what...you just need to know where to work...seek out the good people and don't waste time fighting the bad ones

if you're black living in the racist backwoods maybe you should save money and move somewhere where there is more black clubs or to a bigger city where people in general are a little more sophisticated..after that its all about your looks and your selling ability

otherwise a dancer trying to change some peoples racist social habits or a racist clubs hiring practices will be difficult to do...

Cherryrain: I love you amorsito! And you said it right. Plain and simple. This is my type of woman! I am bi BTW. LOL.

Yes ladies, I know some of you are hating my style and honesty, but for at least once in your lifetime HAVE AN OPEN MIND, I know this hurts and the truth is getting in your soul, but you have to open your mind to others opinions and intelligent suggestions, INSTEAD you are FUGHTING - 'leave it alone my loves'.
Who cares if they are racist? LOL. Why are you so focused on a subject that is worthless and neverending, my only advise is seek therapy, seek a different club or seek a different biz.

And I know you dont like it, I know, but I am being nice by advising this to your 'little brain'.

Move forward my loves! Life is great! You people are still living in the PAST and that is very very unhealthy. :wheelchai
Oh well, thats how healthy the results of your life will be as WELL. :black_cat

Good luck! Mine is YUMMY! :yinyang:
I am OutTiE! :expert: Muah! An remember open your mind, you might learn something that will lead you to a better life, :peace:

lafemmediva
10-27-2008, 03:01 AM
This isn't a discussion on preferences, it's about outright racism. If a customer doesn't like my "type", that's fine, but they don't have to call me a nigger to let me know that.Not only do I get to be called horrible names, but now it's my fault as well..damn you sure did enlighten me today::)
Love, no one has the right on calling you names, when they do, have them kicked out and that must be a traumatizing experience but learn to MOVE ON, STILL HOLDING ON TO THE PAST! The past.

THIS IS MY whole POINT. Move on. Dwelling on these ridiculous experiences with ignorant people and little persons makes you the same, you are better so move on, because you are worth it.

It happend now, and guess what, there is nothing you can do about it.

Have a healthy mind. Let it go, forgive from your heart, because those people doing these things are the rats of society.

Since you are not like them, you move on and see them as RATS.

I know these chicks are hating me now LOL but, I send them love. When it comes to speaking the truth, I do, even if they hate it.:judge: SO MOVE ON!

Racism, child labor, animal cruelty: It sucks! Its always going to happen.
Is happening right now, but thats none of my business, and by writing and spending my sweet free time on all of you, I am already doing something good. Giving caring advise.

MOVE ON. THOSE PEOPLE DISCRIMINATING YOU ARE NOT WORTH YOUR TIME, OR EVEN A SLIGHT THOUGHT.:grouphug:

lafemmediva
10-27-2008, 03:07 AM
I love it how discussions of racism become "oh you're so negative!" Fucking please. No one said they didn't make any money. No one said it isn't about sales.

Lafemmediva is obviously a troll and can't spell or make sense.

Somna, you said it completely. No one was saying that women of color can't make bank and own the joint. I am just saying that these things need to be addressed and confronted and pretending they aren't there doesn't make the world better.
Again, the way you view the world is the way you view yourself.

If you only knew who I was and where I live your would be kissing my feet.

Racism exists, but I dont care for it, I move on AND THEN GOOD THINGS HAPPEN. Now, you are a stripper, and basically by your vocabulary nt even a cop will listen to you if you complain. Learn to choose the right words when exchanging thought with intelligent individuals.

Focus on what you WANT to achieve and experience, create your life happily and smart, and become great, now sadly I read angry words and I was there a long time ago, but you can do it, be educated and talk well, the way you are expressing yourself is with rage, and rage is LOW ENERGY. Negative emotions = Negative results = sh*tty life.

I can say racism sucks and it does but I wont focus on it, Ill focus on all my upcoming achievements, instead of the BS that will go on forever, dont put up with it, just move up, be the better person, have those people whi disrespect you kicked out, its always going to happen, learn to become like a rock in your heart, you cant change the world honey, but you can change yourself, and by changing yourself and seeing things on a positive perspective the results of your life will change.
Have a positive outlook on the world and youll see how many good things will happen. Your complains are getting old, same old, gets boring, very general and -excuse my language: MIERDA.

I feel pity for you.

davka
10-27-2008, 04:09 AM
If you only knew who I was and where I live your would be kissing my feet.


I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire, dear.

Honestly, I think you are a dude posing as a girl with big tits. The bad spelling is real, though. That is for certain.

CherryRain: your reasoning basically lets racists off the hook. You are basically saying, "If you don't like it, you can fucking leave." What you are saying is the exact same thing.

A woman of color should be able to work ANYWHERE, including the backwoods, and feel comfortable and equal. If a white dancer can easily and fluidly move from black clubs to white clubs, equality would mean that a black dancer or other DOC (dancer of color) should be able to do the same damn thing. If that isn't happening- IT'S CALLED RACISM! AND IT FUCKING SUCKS FOR ALL OF US!

You said "maybe you should save money and move to where there are more black clubs."

Lol- you do realize you just totally expressed support for segregation right? "If you don't like it, you should go off and only work with other black people." Wow. Yes, you really did just say that shit.

CherryRain
10-27-2008, 04:09 AM
While it may be diificult it doesn't mean it isn't worth the fight. Just imagine the state the world would be in if people shied away from these types of issues because they are "difficult".

You're right but you also have to pick your battles....I just feel like being a exotic dancer is such a vulnerable job...you can get so easily hastled or set-up...alot of people don't like strippers anyways...especially not the law

not to mention that some of these racist types are scary...and they all aren't just dumb hillbilly rednecks either some have alot of money and connections

but i agree that some difficult fights are worth fighting, but in this particular situation, I personally would just move to a frendlier enviroment if i could...and fight or complain to management as a last alternative, if at all.

I've never had a racist incident and i think its just because i work in places that want me there and the clients want me...any place where a person would be comfortable calling me a nigger or where the management seemed a little funny towards blacks would not be a place that i would work very long.

but i'm totally supportive of any girls who want to fight discrimination in clubs...just be careful because some people are very resistant to change

CherryRain
10-27-2008, 04:14 AM
I don't know your nationality, you look white to me but I'm from the south and I'm black and i know how dangerous fighting racism can be

what you say sounds good in theory but inpractice it could land some people in dangerous situtations and then who is going to ssave them...YOU?!?!??



I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire, dear.

Honestly, I think you are a dude posing as a girl with big tits. The bad spelling is real, though. That is for certain.

CherryRain: your reasoning basically lets racists off the hook. You are basically saying, "If you don't like it, you can fucking leave." What you are saying is the exact same thing.

A woman of color should be able to work ANYWHERE, including the backwoods, and feel comfortable and equal. If a white dancer can easily and fluidly move from black clubs to white clubs, equality would mean that a black dancer or other DOC (dancer of color) should be able to do the same damn thing. If that isn't happening- IT'S CALLED RACISM! AND IT FUCKING SUCKS FOR ALL OF US!

You said "maybe you should save money and move to where there are more black clubs."

Lol- you do realize you just totally expressed support for segregation right? "If you don't like it, you should go off and only work with other black people." Wow. Yes, you really did just say that shit.

davka
10-27-2008, 04:17 AM
Cherry Rain, I like it how you are trying to turn it around now like you didn't basically say that racism is just human nature ("people just like to be around their own kind") and not a fucking disgusting injustice we all need to take personally. Your initial post basically said we are all whiney, unrealistic people to think that it is worth fighting against. Now you are pretending what you meant was people should just move to safer cities. No, you said racism is ok because people just like to be around people who look like them- as if someone calling someone a N**** is ok and not HATRED. BIGOTRY. VIOLENCE. No, it's ok to call somna a "national geographic....." because those guys are just chill dudes who want to be around other white people. NO, Cherry, those guys were racists and them pulling out that belt buckle was an act of violence against her. That symbol contains so much murderous history against people of color and just that that could happen to her should infuriate you. Where is your anger? That is the only proper response to this shit, in my opinion.

You talked to us as if we were stupid and of course club owners offer beers to racists violent sickos because "that's the point of owning a club." whatever.

CherryRain
10-27-2008, 04:18 AM
Cherryrain: I love you amorsito! And you said it right. Plain and simple. This is my type of woman! I am bi BTW. LOL.


DON'T TEMPT ME MAMACITA ;D }:D 8) !

davka
10-27-2008, 04:21 AM
I don't know your nationality, you look white to me but I'm from the south and I'm black and i know how dangerous fighting racism can be

what you say sounds good in theory but inpractice it could land some people in dangerous situtations and then who is going to ssave them...YOU?!?!??

I am willing to put myself in a dangerous situation to confront racism. I have been arrested for it. I have been hospitalized for it. I would not ask that of any woman of color or anybody else. I didn't advise any behavior except to other white dancers to speak up and not just sit back and enjoy our privilege. This is a policy I try to live by.

Then the thread became a basic discussion of racism and that's where we are. No one is saying to go and picket the clubs or take on the klan. I was saying it's good to have this place for us to be realistic and talk about these things in safety and you came on and said we were imagining things and it's all about sales and harmless human nature.

Nowhere did I advise any women of color to confront any racism. I would never tell a woman of color how to deal with racism. I said I personally forfeit my privilege when I can to speak out against that shit. Then an honest dialogue started about racism and I disagreed that it is all about sales because I find that attitude to be very silencing and dismissive.

davka
10-27-2008, 04:22 AM
DON'T TEMPT ME MAMACITA ;D }:D 8) !

You do realize "she" just told the other dancers of color that they "need therapy" if they think racism is real or a problem, right? Do you think that is sexy?

Also, that's a dude. A racist dude.

CherryRain
10-27-2008, 04:30 AM
i'm not trying to turn anything around...i'm just speaking the truth being realistic...i'm obviously not condoning racism, but i'm also not going to ignore the reality i deal with everyday when i get out of bed..

its a dangerous world and you've got to pick your battles...

if you think its a good idea for a black stripper girl in the country backwoods to go toe to toe with some local redneck racists then thats your opinion...but if she gets in trouble then you make sure she has your cell number


Cherry Rain, I like it how you are trying to turn it around now like you didn't basically say that racism is just human nature ("people just like to be around their own kind") and not a fucking disgusting injustice we all need to take personally. Your initial post basically said we are all whiney, unrealistic people to think that it is worth fighting against. Now you are pretending what you meant was people should just move to safer cities. No, you said racism is ok because people just like to be around people who look like them- as if someone calling someone a N**** is ok and not HATRED. BIGOTRY. VIOLENCE. No, it's ok to call somna a "national geographic....." because those guys are just chill dudes who want to be around other white people. NO, Cherry, those guys were racists and them pulling out that belt buckle was an act of violence against her. That symbol contains so much murderous history against people of color and just that that could happen to her should infuriate you. Where is your anger? That is the only proper response to this shit, in my opinion.

You talked to us as if we were stupid and of course club owners offer beers to racists violent sickos because "that's the point of owning a club." whatever.

CherryRain
10-27-2008, 04:33 AM
EEEEWWWWWWW !!! :( I HOPE NOT


Also, that's a dude. A racist dude.

davka
10-27-2008, 04:34 AM
Wow, you are not hearing me. I never EVER said she should go toe to toe. I said she should be able to talk about it here without dumb asses telling her it's in her head, she's negative, she needs therapy. I also said that shouldn't be happening and that as long as it does, it's a problem and I think white dancers should speak out when they can. Go read through my posts and tell me where I ever told her to go toe to toe with them in a fight. You are misunderstanding me. At any rate, I never said anything like that.

davka
10-27-2008, 04:35 AM
EEEEWWWWWWW !!! :( I HOPE NOT

haha, i don't know- maybe not. just seems strange that this newbie came on and got all up in arms in this thread and nowhere else. that is suspect to me.

MoetATL07
10-27-2008, 04:39 AM
Very suspect to me also.

CherryRain
10-27-2008, 04:43 AM
yeah i know she is venting which is healthy...and i agree that in general all nationalites white black or orange should definately speak out against racism when they can..just as long as girls don't put themselves in unnecessary danger


Wow, you are not hearing me. I never EVER said she should go toe to toe. I said she should be able to talk about it here without dumb asses telling her it's in her head, she's negative, she needs therapy. I also said that shouldn't be happening and that as long as it does, it's a problem and I think white dancers should speak out when they can. Go read through my posts and tell me where I ever told her to go toe to toe with them in a fight. You are misunderstanding me. At any rate, I never said anything like that.

CherryRain
10-27-2008, 04:46 AM
oh ok..well we shall see...not that i have anything against men in general tho..i LUV men, but i just like to know who i'm dealing with :)


haha, i don't know- maybe not. just seems strange that this newbie came on and got all up in arms in this thread and nowhere else. that is suspect to me.

CherryRain
10-27-2008, 04:57 AM
there was alot of negativity going both ways between you and
lafemme ....you seemed to be attacking her for having a contrary opinion...but i do understand your point




Nowhere did I advise any women of color to confront any racism. I would never tell a woman of color how to deal with racism. I said I personally forfeit my privilege when I can to speak out against that shit. Then an honest dialogue started about racism and I disagreed that it is all about sales because I find that attitude to be very silencing and dismissive.

davka
10-27-2008, 05:11 AM
i think i understand your point a lot better now too. i was just taking a bath and thinking about it. i think i am coming from a protected perspective that can confront racism when i see it because it isn't direct toward me and i think, also, your perspective is from a person who has personally lived through some dangerous situations and has made choices to minimize that danger and you were advising the other girls to do that because you don't think the danger is worth it if it's not going to create any real change. getting out of the dangerzone is smarter than sticking around and fighting. very interesting and very good point.

i hope you know that i would never tell a woman of color how to respond to racism. i think by being a proud, intelligent woman of color and a proud, intelligent stripper that is a world of fight right there. i guess i told you indirectly how to respond to weirdo lafemme, but that's just because i think that's a man! haha

men are great, too, though. for sure.

CherryRain
10-27-2008, 05:22 AM
wow...that was very well said...you are obviously very smart and perceptive !

lafemme as a man /:O hahaha ! i don't know...but i guess anything is possible on the internet ::) !


i think i understand your point a lot better now too. i was just taking a bath and thinking about it. i think i am coming from a protected perspective that can confront racism when i see it because it isn't direct toward me and i think, also, your perspective is from a person who has personally lived through some dangerous situations and has made choices to minimize that danger and you were advising the other girls to do that because you don't think the danger is worth it if it's not going to create any real change. getting out of the dangerzone is smarter than sticking around and fighting. very interesting and very good point.

i hope you know that i would never tell a woman of color how to respond to racism. i think by being a proud, intelligent woman of color and a proud, intelligent stripper that is a world of fight right there. i guess i told you indirectly how to respond to weirdo lafemme, but that's just because i think that's a man! haha

men are great, too, though. for sure.

Miss_Luscious
10-27-2008, 05:33 AM
Damn, I'm glad that's over. It made me mad just reading it. It really doesn't matter where you work. I've been treated like shit and called a nigger at nice clubs and I've been treated like a queen at a little backwoods place. It's about the people. To think that we are somehow just wallowing in our misery is absurd. But you ladies have already said everything I would have said so I'll just cosign on your posts.

Alia_of_the_Knife
10-27-2008, 11:59 AM
Damn, I'm glad that's over. It made me mad just reading it. It really doesn't matter where you work. I've been treated like shit and called a nigger at nice clubs and I've been treated like a queen at a little backwoods place. It's about the people. To think that we are somehow just wallowing in our misery is absurd. But you ladies have already said everything I would have said so I'll just cosign on your posts.

It really is crazy talk. I live in the North, in big, liberal, kumbayah cities where everyone votes Obama and children sleep on golden beds, and I have been treated worse in those clubs. My best clubs have tended to be backwoods, rural, or blue collar establishments.(Tina, the o.p. has worked mostly in rural establishments in the midwest.) The fact is, almost every club has some degree of racism, (most public establishments do, whether they are restaurants or schools), so going to some magical land where you won't have to deal with it is silly.

When I can get my foot in the door, I tend to run circles around most of the white strippers. This is mostly due to what I have learned here as well as simply having more of a work ethic and drive. Often this leads to even more mistreatment due to the fact that "black girls are not supposed to do so well unless they are turning tricks" attitude that many of my coworkers have. The trick is often just getting my foot in the door instead of being given the run around with the whole hiring freeze b.s. or too many girls working b.s. only for some chubby, drug addicted, white girl to get hired. Almost all of these clubs OVER book white girls (just look at the bazillion posts on here complaining about working with too many dancers) but many of these places only have 1 or 2 black girls? To act like black women or black people in general are either simply imagining racism or even causing it themselves is both absurd and insulting. Hell, the original topic was advice and not so-called "whining".

Miss_Luscious
10-27-2008, 12:50 PM
^^Exactly. I hate the fact that whenever the subject of racism comes up on SW, there are so many responses that either

A. Dismiss our concerns are "all in our head" and recommendations that we ignore it.
B. Tell us we are whining and we just need to sell harder
C. Are a colored (meaning black or latina or asian) dancer saying they NEVER had a problem with racism and therefore we must have something wrong with us and also we are not good hustlers and we are too sensitive and we should quit the industry.
D. Say if we just get a nice long weave and look like a barbie (and don't talk ghetto! as if we actually need to be told this or the majority of us talk ghetto anyway) we'll be fine.

What kills me the most though is the white dancers that deny racism because there is a black girl at their club and she BANKS so therefore there is no racism in stripping.

It just makes me want to punch people in the damn head! Right in the side of the head, about 3 inches above their ears.

xsomnambulist
10-27-2008, 05:21 PM
Damn, I'm glad that's over. It made me mad just reading it. It really doesn't matter where you work. I've been treated like shit and called a nigger at nice clubs and I've been treated like a queen at a little backwoods place. It's about the people. To think that we are somehow just wallowing in our misery is absurd. But you ladies have already said everything I would have said so I'll just cosign on your posts.

Exactly. Incidents happen everywhere, period. I've not recounted every incident that's happened at any backwoods club that I've worked at. If I had, you'd think that it was mostly positive. I've recounted, like, 3 negative incidents -- three -- of a year-long career.

Really didn't expect it to blow up into some shit.

xsomnambulist
10-27-2008, 05:28 PM
Also, I love you, davka!

XD
haha

davka
10-27-2008, 06:30 PM
I love you too! haha i love this thread because i think this is such an important conversation to be having and I had my fill of dumb bitches I danced with pretending racism wasn't a problem. And yeah, by no means do I think that you were some suffering susan out in the boonies. Seems like you held shit down and moved on. I was just saying that these things do happen and it's important for dancer solidarity, which I think we all on this board believe in, for white dancers to be aware of it and try when they can to create a better working environment for girls of color. Most of this comes from my frustration this summer with some girls I knew that took that "it's all in your head" attitude and lots of conversations happened that didn't go so well.

Also, I was close to a lot of girls in this little shitty backwoods club that were dancers of color and they felt like they had to censure their anger coming back in the dressing room if they needed to just vent about the racism.

One girl said to me that she didn't get hired at this club she went to with her white friend and she knew it was because she was black. This girl was a perfect ten body. Great personality. Super smart. Any club that hires her makes bank from her sales and some stupid rednecks told her no because she was black. The girl said this to me and then looked nervous that I would be offended. She said, "I'm not saying it's wrong or anything..." and i was like, "hell yes it's wrong. Fuck that." And she felt relieved to be able to talk about it without me being some in denial white bitch telling her to shut up. I think that silencing happens more than we realize and dancers have to be able to bitch about these things to other dancers in honesty and realness.

Just like I need to shut the fuck up when Cherry Rain calls me out on my idealism when she is talking about straight up lived experiences of danger.

You girls are so damn smart! Love it.

davka
10-27-2008, 06:34 PM
C. Are a colored (meaning black or latina or asian) dancer saying they NEVER had a problem with racism and therefore we must have something wrong with us and also we are not good hustlers and we are too sensitive and we should quit the industry.
D. Say if we just get a nice long weave and look like a barbie (and don't talk ghetto! as if we actually need to be told this or the majority of us talk ghetto anyway) we'll be fine.

What kills me the most though is the white dancers that deny racism because there is a black girl at their club and she BANKS so therefore there is no racism in stripping.

It just makes me want to punch people in the damn head! Right in the side of the head, about 3 inches above their ears.

perfectly said. I was also thinking the same thing about the latina comment from lafemmediva last night. Obviously all dancers of color experience racism in their lives, but I think it is important to realize that the black dancers are dealing with a much more widespread, historically deeprooted racism in this country. Of course, I am in no way ignoring the reality of racism against latin american people- jesus, with all the recent immigration propaganda and backlash against migrant workers and all that shit, I would never say that latin americans have it easy. no way. but there is a difference between what the different women of color are experiencing and this needs to be understood.

Miss_Luscious
10-27-2008, 07:14 PM
^^yes. Often a latina is seen as exotic while a black girl is just that, a black girl. I made more money when I sold myself as Creole than I did when I was just a plain old light skinned black girl.

veronicachick
10-27-2008, 11:33 PM
my mom told me something that made me think... we are from Brasil and she said she never understood the weight that people place on the color of someone's skin here in America. I wonder if other countries around the world struggle with this issue like we do.


a bit off topic but...
I never really understood the thin line between race and nationality.... I always thought the color of someone's skin and where they are from are two different things. But around here, for instance, if you say a hispanic(light skinned) person is white they get very offended. Why does white= american?

forevernaked
10-28-2008, 12:22 AM
I do feel very guilty about not speaking up when I see racism on the job and it's because I don't want my speaking up to affect my income. I don't know if I feel guilty enough to do anything about it. :-\

However, I don't have the view that restricting black girls is "one less girl on the floor" because I personally don't feel that black girls are in competition with me. I feel the same about the Barbie-type girls and other girls who have a completely different look from me.

I have absolutely no problem speaking up against racism and ignorance. Money comes and goes, but I've got the same soul forever. If I shrug in the face of racism, I'm letting myself down, letting my parents and teachers down (they taught me better), and letting down all the beautiful dark-skinned people in my life, including aunts and uncles, cousins, and innumerable friends. If I hear some racism bs and keep my mouth shut, I would hate for my silence to be taken as agreement.