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Lexi
02-07-2003, 03:12 PM
okay
i think we've beaten the shit out of this topic

Hahahaha yes!

sol_de_pr2
02-07-2003, 03:14 PM
Oh sweetheart, big difference. If a guy is jerking off to me, then thats sex in HIS mind. In no way did he get to penetrate me. When he cant control himelf and cums because of a lapdance, that is not sex.
Well, its masturbation in my book ;D. A type of sex, really.

Lexi
02-07-2003, 03:18 PM
Haha carlos, you know its not the same. If hes masturbating to his hand, then thats just it. Sex with himself.
I dont think any guy would say, "Damn I just got laid" and be speaking of jerking off ;)

sol_de_pr2
02-07-2003, 03:22 PM
Well, Lexi, he needs to use his hand to masturbate, duh. It's still something that should not be done in a club.

Lexi
02-07-2003, 03:28 PM
ohhh...im not talking about in a club though...
I thought she meant in general, caus you see, she also mentions him having sex with his wife, using my image (still sex, in her idea)
Obviously she didnt mean at the club
But also, if the guy is sitting in a dark corner, wacking off to me, and I have no idea, thats not sex either

Djoser
02-07-2003, 04:50 PM
My point exactly, Lexi, if a woman is dancing her heart out to a song, she is being an artist. Whatever the guy whacking off in the corner thinks of her is immaterial to her own experience, so long as he isn't touching her or interrupting her flow by grunting loudly or waving his dick around.

However, Pryce and others cannot be denied when they make us aware of how even the most artistic of erotic dancers are perceived by the most distressingly mentally handicapped public. We all have at least one relative who would view exotic dancers and prostitutes with the same judgemental eyes. And from all appearances, they are in the majority.

This tendency to pass judgement on sexual matters is the whole problem, whether its Granny railing about the sluts at Cafe Risque, or "Angel" at Cafe Risque railing about the sluts down on 38th St.

It is a shame that anything and everything having to do with sex is considered evil. Legalize all of it, I say, and keep it clean (i.e. disease free). Pay cops to bust murderers and robbers, not women literally minding their own business.

But I am now further beating senseless this topic...

Djoser


Lexi
02-07-2003, 05:44 PM
and I totally understand you Merely. I dont have a problem with prostitutes in general. I dont care what they do, and I dont think all are diseased, drug addicted girls. I really dont, but as you said, you never had much experience with prostitutes, except the ones at stripclubs. The latter is what gets me. When im dancing naked and some girl takes my customers by performing MORE at the club.
Then I'm gonna got pissed and use the word whore. If a girl does this elsewhere, I dont care....shes not bothering me and what she does doesnt affect me.
I didnt mean to offend you, if incase you were, but I dont generalize them until they start saying they are strippers, yet perform extras. That more, and it shouldnt be allowed in a club.

Shawn
02-07-2003, 07:43 PM
WOW!!!!! After reading this post, i really dont care who my response pisses off, because this whole thing is assinine to me and really made me mad that some random person would have the balls to put dancers in the same category as hookers!
Pamela, i agree with everything you have said in response to this ridiculous post. No wonder dancers are so stereotyped - it is because of this type of comparison. I am 30 years old and have been dancing for 12 years on and off in high class gentlemens clubs. NEVER have i or would i consider selling my body to someone. Selling fantasy and selling your physical being are 2 totally different things. I dance, i do not fuck, suck or touch anyone and i despise anyone that would refer to me as a hooker, whore or prostitue. I am an entertainer, period. I dont have a problem with people that have sex for money, to each his own, but do not put me in that category and if in my club, absolutely do not rub it in my face or the faces of my customers that do spend lots of money on me merely for conversation and fantasy. Maybe it is the people with the mentality like Trashy that separate the entertainers from the whores......Shawn

Melonie
02-07-2003, 09:56 PM
Most of you are still sidestepping the real issue of legality and more specifically of creating undeserved risk for others due to "guilt by association". If you break down the issue of male versus female business competitors, on a basic level this is simply two business people willing to provide the same level of service in a totally legal environment but one business competitor happens to be perceived as more attractive than the other to a potential customer. This is akin to two dancers in the same club who both follow club rules, who both stay within the law, but one happens to be a "10" while the other is an "8". There is nothing unfair about this sort of competition IMHO.

Now let's take the example up another level, where you have one business person staying within the law but the other business person is willing to break it - but without involving the other business person. An example that comes to mind is office cleaning services. If the first businessman runs a cleaning service that legally employs US workers at $7 per hour he can offer to empty trash cans and dust countertops for $100. On the other hand, if the second businessman runs a cleaning service that employs illegal immigrants at $2 per hour he can offer to not only empty trash cans and dust countertops for the same $100, but also to vacuum every carpet, wash every window etc. This example would correspond to two dancers in the same club, where both follow the letter of the law inside the club, but where one offers sex for money after hours. In both cases of this example the second business activity is definitely illegal and the person doing it can be busted for it, but it doesn't directly impact the first business other than through reduced earnings potential for the first business because the second business is willing to provide more services for the same price.

Kicking things up to the final level, imagine that you have one business which is honest, has a good reputation, and abides by the law. Then you have a second business which chooses to use exactly the same business name as the first business but which breaks the law. Perhaps a realistic example might be two car repair services, both named GoodWrench, where the first employes qualified mechanics and uses quality replacement parts. However, the second service uses anybody who calls themself a machanic and the cheapest replacement parts they can find. In this case the second business can offer a lot more to a potential customer than the first business. However, when the customer selects the second business and tells his friends about it, it reflects both on the second business and the first business as well because they both operate under the same name. When the customer of the second business complains to the better business bureau that GoodWrench screwed them and the better business bureau starts investigating, it puts both businesses at risk because they both operate under the same name. This example is of course akin to two dancers working in the same club which share the same club's "perceived reputation", but where the first dancer abides by the law while the second dancer illegally provides sex for money inside the club. Not only does the second dancer put herself at risk of being busted, but the first dancer as well. Besides this, any change in "perceived reputation" due to the second dancer's illegal activities can directly reflect on the "perceived reputation" of the first dancer as well even though she has done nothing to deserve it.

In the real business world, this last example would eventually result in major lawsuits against the second business for damages incurred by the first business, because the illegal activities of ther second business had directly impacted the business reputation of the first business since illegal things had been done in the same name. However, in the real world of dancing world there is no such recourse. In the real business world it would be a simple matter for the first business to prove to investigators that their employees were certified, that their parts were top quality etc. and thus avoid any legal charges. In the real world of dancing it would be virtually impossible for the first girl to "prove her innocence" after she has been falsely charged with prostitution due to "guilt by association". In the real business world it would be partially possible for the first business to put out announcements that it was not associated with business #2 which had been busted, bringing back at least part of the business' former customers. In the real dancing world it would be impossible to get club customers who stopped going to the club due to changes in its "perceived reputation" to understand that these perceptions only applied to dancer #2 and not dancer #1.

Again, all of these points have nothing to do with a moral judgement, they only involve the business and legal consequences of performing illegal activities. In a scenario where the same activities are NOT illegal, i.e. Nevada Counties with legalized prostitution or in Europe with legalized sex clubs, there are no negative consequences if one girl chooses to provide sex to a customer while another girl does not. In this scenario I say more power to you to any girls willing to go for it because it will have no effect on me whatsoever other than relative earning power since they are offering more services than I'm willing to. But in most of the USA where prostitution is illegal and where busts eventually follow this is definitely not the case.

powerpuff
02-08-2003, 03:13 PM
Thats IT!!! ok.... we girls that don't prostitute ourselves get the bad name because of the girls that DO!!! And we also run the risk of being busted way more because of these girls that DO!!! The cops wouldn't be in our clubs nowhere near as much if there wasn't this shit going on, therefore a girl that maybe rubs her hand across her nipple while dancing will have less of a chance of getting arrested for prostitution (county law in Vegas) (If there wasn't the hooking going on in the clubs like there is then maybe the moron that thought up this law... wouldn't have)

I'm in this for the money... like in what Melonie says if any you asked any businessman or woman out there if they would be REALLY pissed off, if a competeing business was pulling illeagal shit and ripping off business from them... what do you think they would say??? duhhh... YES!!! for those of you that keep trying to justify hooking in clubs.

Also for those who think there is no difference between strippers and hookers (which is just plain crap)...then we must put your mainstream moviestars in that boat aswell, they are out there doing a hell of alot more than we are on screen,even if its only pretend and they get paid for it that makes them pros aswell... doesn't it??
Look at Halley Berry on that movie with Billy Bob Thornton,they were into it like a couple of dogs on heat, and next thing you know she gets an oscar.

We strip on stage and do a lap dance, and we get labeled as "prostitutes" because ... once again... of the girls that whore themselves in our clubs...

Turn things around ....if you girls who do the extras and whore yourselves were working say ...in a legal brothel and I got a job there and was offering the customers sex PLUS a handful of drugs or whatever .... and stole your customers ....

wouldn't you be pissed???

Lena
02-08-2003, 04:11 PM
I know I had said I was done with this topic, but I just want to point out that nobody EVER said that doing extra's in the club was okay. In fact, I think Trash and almost everyone who agree'd with her specifically stated that they were against extras in the clubs and girls working out of the clubs.

The original post was simply asking that we respect (or not blatantly disrespect) another profession. There was nothing ever said about respecting girls who fuck with our clubs.

Lena

TiNi
02-08-2003, 04:40 PM
I agree Marko. Well said ;)

02-08-2003, 05:40 PM
trash... you very articulately stated my sentiments. thank you.

Pamela
02-09-2003, 04:46 AM
One last point, and i was done to. Some of us may need to read the original post. Lena, you may have not understood. Please i just want to point out how hard it is to get off topic by following others down the thread. The original poster did say "she does not condone extras being done in the clubs". I think that may have hit a soft spot with alot of us. Thats all. Thats how i felt. She said alot. And i am not a hater of any one person. Choices we make in our lives do impact others when it's just too close to home, meaning our working atmosphere too.
Luck to you Trashnready, may you be a great sucess as a dancer! And all the others that disagree with me, may we remain fellow dancers. This topic was a tough one for alot of us. We all have our own opinions, that is what i like about people, and that is how i learn how others think. Pamela :)

callguy
02-09-2003, 03:01 PM
Man! You guys really beat the shit out of this topic!! I guess each person has his/her own opinion on the stripping and whoring in clubs and to each their own. I percieve myself to be a customer of only high class clubs. If a girl comes up to me and offers blatant sex in a club I'm usually out of there. I'm not about to die or get some disease from any stripper or prostitute and if the offer of sex comes quickly, I can pretty well be certain that I'll be in jail or arrested pronto. The cops frequent the clubs undercover and I can't afford an arrest like that in my career as an engineering manager.

I have to admit that I frequent the club that Pamela works in and know her very well. I also have to admit that after one very provocative performance by her I propositioned her (remember Pam?). She is to me the best at what she does and I couldn't resist. She was very polite about it but said no. The manager who is now a friend of mine told me at the time that the offer was not appreciated in his club. Since then I have frequented this club almost exclusively. There are nights when I spend over $200 at the club. My favorite is Pamela and most of that goes to her, but others get a little bit too. Sorry people, but getting safe sex in this world is easy. Getting turned on by a very beautiful woman stripping provocatively is much harder! Pamela is one of the few dancers that I can say arouses me in a strip club. If you've got the money to spend, spend it on something you like! I do.

Lexi
02-09-2003, 05:42 PM
WOW...
Pam look at that!!!! I'd be soooooo flattered. :D

Pamela
02-10-2003, 03:01 AM
Hey Callguy, Thanks Lexi,
he's a great guy. He comes here from time to time and posts. I am flattered. He gets his lapdances from other girls, and i do stage shows and hang in the club with him. Nice guy, and never has anything bad to say about anyone. Pamela
2nd time to modify, can't spell today..

sol_de_pr2
02-10-2003, 03:27 AM
I have to admit that I frequent the club that Pamela works in and know her very well. I also have to admit that after one very provocative performance by her I propositioned her (remember Pam?). She is to me the best at what she does and I couldn't resist. She was very polite about it but said no. Since then I have frequented this club almost exclusively. There are nights when I spend over $200 at the club. My favorite is Pamela and most of that goes to her, but others get a little bit too. Sorry people, but getting safe sex in this world is easy. Getting turned on by a very beautiful woman stripping provocatively is much harder! Pamela is one of the few dancers that I can say arouses me in a strip club. If you've got the money to spend, spend it on something you like! I do. Geez, Callguy, that sure was a quick draw! I can say the same thing about Bridgette at the club that I now frequent, only that I've spent a bit more (and I'm a government lawyer, not a big-time law firm lawyer). B. is definitely a pro at what she does, but she certainly arouses me and her other clients! Like I told her last Saturday, I wait till the following day to find the way to finance my next visit ;D.

Pamela
02-10-2003, 03:48 AM
One point he failed to mention is he lives 2 miles away, and comes to see me everytime i am there. 4 or 5 evenings aweek. (now he can yell at me...Lol.) Pamela

hollyday
02-10-2003, 09:33 AM
THANK U TO ALL WHO POSTED TO THIS TOPIC

THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED!

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY

ToriBaltimore
10-13-2004, 02:15 PM
wow

Rhiannon
10-13-2004, 02:19 PM
Not sure how this got dug up, I think it was locked. Maybe it got unlocked in the move... Anyhoo, I'm not going to let this one be resurrected, no good will come of it.