View Full Version : Opening a New Club
jrockyb
09-15-2002, 03:10 AM
Lena..Thanks! Webcams..never thought of that! :) That might be something good. DO you think many dancers would be interested in that sort of thing??
Jackie & Rocky
glosgoodies
09-15-2002, 04:51 PM
Hello Jackie & Rocky! Glo here. I have enjoyed these posts. Good luck to you both! Remember anything is better than a J.O.B. (just over broke) Keep your goals and dreams alive and anything can be accomplished!!
If I may offer my assistance in any way please let me know. Sometimes ya just need to remember "It is all in fact about the money" -Joe Kaiser, or shall I say about what "YOU WANT" Make your Club the best you know how, learn from your mistakes and use tools such as this site as a validated reference. The members here all have opinoins (Great opinions) but all- in-all it will be up to both of you. ;) Good Luck!
HAVE A GREAT DAY/NIGHT!! GLO
McCain
09-16-2002, 09:00 AM
First off, regarding webcams in the clubs and/or dressing rooms:
If you bother to really look through the internet, you will find that there are already several clubs across the US who are doing this. A lot of them do it for free, even more of them charge. Idon't know that I bookmarked any of the ones I ran across, but I remember running across 2-3 dozen club websites offering this when I was doing some research this past spring. So there does seem to be some sort of market for this. Be forewarned, though - if you plan to go this route, be very upfront about it with the people you hire. Not everyone will dig the idea of working in a place where they will be on webcams. Also, if you charge fees for webcam access, I would consider maybe putting a msall (like 10%) percentage of the profits into some sort of slush fund to be distributed equally amongst your employees. The reason for this is that without your employees, you would have nothing to put on cam, and therefore no way to make money from it. Just a thought.
Another thing to consider with the webcam operation is potential liability. I am thinking in two directions here. First, on many of the club websites I saw that offered webcams for free, anybody and there mother could have easily accessed and viewed the cams, which obviously showed varying degrees of nudity. I bring this up because you want to make sure that minors are not going to be viewing this material.
The second direction from which I am viewing liability issues is that of the public display of customers who may frequent your establishment, if you choose to put webcams where they are showing the stage work/lap dances/etc. Quite a few of the ones I saw did this, and anyone who bothered to look could have seen that the customers who appeared within the cams view were in no way obscured from recognition. If you chose to place cams in this manner, you would probably have to have your customers file some sort of waiver - realizing that it would drastically cut into your patronage. All it would take is some lawsuit because a preacher, or school superintendent, or something came in, and someone later recognized them in the cam footage, and you would see what I mean.
That pretty much leaves you with cams inthe locker room. My advice here? If you do that, have two seperate locker rooms - one for girls when they are to be on the cam, and one for those who aren't. This is because some really gross, really human, really impolite, and generally unappealing things tfrequently take place in dancer dressing rooms. I could go into detail to give you a better idea, but I don't care to make anyone squelch or lose their lunch. The rest of the girls in here can probably vouch for this, though. If you have seperate areas, that eliminates this issue.
Just my two cents worth.
Regarding the 1-900 services, I can't say for certain that i absolutely have never seen any places that did it, but I can say that I cannot recall any. Personally, I would just ditch the idea, unless you have a few girls who flat out just wish to do it. If you go with it, make it strictly voluntary - not a job requirement. I know a lot of girls who have no issue with stripping, but would balk at that. Also, if you are thinking in terms of a phone sex operation, you would need many intelligent, extremely open-minded, creative, and well-verbalized women who are capable of thinking like a combination of a prostitute and therapist. Women who embody all of these qualities, want to work for you, and are willing to do phone sex work, are going to be few and far between. Which is another reason to make it a voluntary extra.
Okay, so enough with my personal opinions, humble or not so. The best thing you can do is weigh out the pros and cons for yourselves if you open a club. But just realize, if you go a route that is disagreeable to most of the employee-types you are targetting, you may find yourself without workers. So think carefully on how you are going to set things up, and you should be okay.
Time to jet - I busted my ass last night working on some pole trick modifications, and am nursing evil black & purple bruises from my neck to my ankles.
McCain
jrockyb
09-18-2002, 12:13 PM
Mc Cain & Glo..
I hope that we've been able to express that whatever it is that we offer as far as the webcam, or if we were to wander into a "900" service it would be completely VOLUNTARY. We are not at all interested into forcing our dancers into doing things they don't want to do, or don't have talents for. Our dancers would be there to dance. If we were able to offer some other services that would make our dancers more money, and they WANTED to do it, then fine. We're not into forcing things upon people. Also, very good points about not pointing the webcams into the faces of innocent bystanders. Rocky's worked in radio and a little TV over the past 29 years and yeah, we know the consequences of putting "uncleared" faces where they shouldn't be. But it IS an excellent point for anyone who doesn't realize that. Also, it would definately be right to have separate dressing rooms for "LIVE" and non-live dancers. Your opinions are excellent, and we are happy to have found this site and it is being a great help!
Jackie & Rocky
Actually, I was thinking you could set up a couple web cam rooms or booths, and either run your own website or run it through Ifreinds. Get each girl set up with an Ifreinds account, tack an extra .25 a minute on the Ifreinds price for the club, and let the girl keep the rest of the money.
Lena
McCain
09-19-2002, 05:03 AM
That is an interesting set-up to do - the Ifriends thing, I mean. And if I remember right, there is also some sort of bonus through Ifriends for those who get voted as the best in their classification every so often.
I would think they would need to check on the legalities of the whole webcam thing, also, to make sure that they are treading on firm ground.
As for Jackie & Rocky -
I dig that it should have been implicit to me that everything would be voluntary. Please realize, though, that I have had (and turned down) job offers at clubs that had reputations for engaging the girls in activities that were potentially offensive or questionable, and cutting their shifts or firing them if they refused. As a result, I tend to be a rather wary individual.
Another thing I have noticed several clubs doing is having websites tied into the club, that are membership only (usually for around $30-$40 a month/unlimited access) featuring their girls as adult models / actresses. From everything I have seen, these seem to be ran pretty much like any other adult for-profit website, so I think you can easily figure on what kind of content there would be. I notice many of them also affiliate with other adult sites to make it easier to carry a much wider variety of content. A bit different from the webcam idea, but the same general idea. Plus, you don't have to worry about a good chunk of the profits being taken right off the top, the way Ifriends does. On the other hand, most of the time this option is going to be much less interactive than an Ifriends-type set-up would be. And again, you would want to be certain of your legal footing. I would also be sure to get all original content copyrighted, if you go with this route.
McCain
jrockyb
09-29-2002, 06:13 AM
After reading the "Strip Club Rules" that have been written in another post, would any of you want that type of thing posted in clubs you worked in? We found the couples thing most offensive.
Jackie & Rocky
It depends on the club. The couples thing is just offensive and shouldn't be there. The rest of it I would like for everyone to have to read before they came in, but I also realize that it could have a negative effect on business, so I would say, maybe post an ammended version on the wall somewhere.
Lena
McCain
10-02-2002, 05:55 AM
Regarding Strip Club manners....
I think all of them are on the money, except the one about couples. And actually, I do think it was good for something about couples to be thrown in BUT(!!!!!!) I really feel that it should have been worded differently.
Let me explain why.
I dig couples coming in - it's something different and they can be very fun.
However, when a woman with an attitude comes in - especially with her man - all of us girls are in for some form of hell. You have the girlfriends who are there strictly to please their men and spend the whole time bitching. You have the ones who are curious to see what is going on, and insist that their men sit with them in the back the whole time to watch without tipping, usually while drinking heavily. You have the ones that are in a good mood, but seem to feel that it is the appropriate venue to engage their men in their own form of lap-dances (or actually sexual contact), usually to the distraction of both the girls and other customers - we break up at least one of these per night. You get the women who come in as a group with a guy, and then all sit down at the tip rail and start kissing and grinding on each other - NOT COOL. We get the ones that are into chicks just like their guys, and then get even handier and out of line than the men do, assuming that it is automatically okay just because they are female (it's not). Then there are the ones that are just flat out bitches, who sit at the stage with the men, and deride the girls, and the berate the guy if he bothers to put up a tip. The most recent one I ran across almost got slapped for telling a guy (who happened to be an old friend of mine visiting) to get his ass up to the stage and "make that bitch (me) really work for a buck". HE was the one who wanted to slap her. Me, I would have just stuck a spike heel in her chest if I had known.
Women and couples ARE great. But the fact of the matter is, when the women customers misbehave, they are usually much worse than the males.
So I think saying something about it is warranted, but it needs to be said MUCH MUCH differently.
McCain
Hmm..
How bout "we welcome and enjoy couples, but ask that you remember that this is a respectable public place and conduct yourselves accordingly"
Or something like that. I've really never had problems with women. Most of the ones that come in with guys will tell them to tip me, and I LOVE when the guys suprise their girlfreinds with a lapdance. Women that I've danced for (both lesbians and ones that are part of a couple) have always been more respectful and less touchy than the guys.
Lena
ASU_Racer
10-02-2002, 08:13 PM
I've been too busy to post lately, but I wanted to toss something out before I log off. No guy reads any of the long list of rules out front of a strip club, even if they are posted in hot pink neon. If a guy does happen to read them, he's usually not the type you have to worry about.
I think a skilled hostess would do the trick better then anything. Asking "Is this your first time here?" and if the answer is "yes" then she can lay out some short, informal, yet very important rules, and even if the answer is "no" a refresh isn't out of order. Being helpful, polite, and asking if the gentelmen have any questions helps. And a sexy/motherly "now you boys behave yourselves" never hurt either. If a customer breaks one of the rules, depending on the rule, he might respond better if a hostess told him to knock it off rather then a bouncer, keeps the "macho" factor down, but if he does it again, just have the bouncer bounce the idiot, no excuse. Plus, you're lucky the club will be back east. If it was out here, you would have to post all those rules in spanish & english. ;D
I have some more club ideas I don't mind sharing, because it is a few years before I will be ready to open my club (if ever) and who knows what the industry will be like then. I'll post them when I'm not half asleep.
>"...but ask that you remember that this is a respectable public place and conduct yourselves accordingly" "<
Funny how that should be a given at any, and all public places, yet there are those who still can't grasp the notion.
As Racer mentioned, most club patrons pay no mind to posted club 'rules'. Some don't even realize there are any. ::)
More importantly (as a manager/owner/bouncer/what have you), simply pay attention to the patrons in your club, as well as their interaction with the dancers as much as possible.
If there is a problem (of course you can't be too touchy, nor be everywhere at once), there's nothing saying you can't have said unruly/problematic patron removed from the club; at your, or the dancers discretion.
What really irritates me is when I walk up to the bouncer and tell him that some guy is a problem, and he says "oh, yeah, I've been keeping an eye on that one, he keeps trying to touch the girls onstage when he tips them." Well DUH!! Kick him out when he becomes a problem, not after he's ruined somebody's night!
Also when I end a lapdance because someone is too touchy feely (and it takes a lot for me to end it, usually I can get them to behave themselves) and the bouncer or manager says "oh, did you want them to leave?" YES I want them to leave!!
If you have bouncers that take the attitude that they are there to defend the girls honor, and if you cater to the girls instead of the customers (within reason) your club will run sooo much smoother.
Just for example, I once auditioned at a club and then started that same night. It was kind of a slow out of the way club that really wasn't doing much business, and I was kicking ass. The manager told me halfway through the night that I'd sold more than most of their girls sold in a week. Partly just because I was a new face, I'm sure. Anyways, partway through the night this guy comes in and gets a half hour champagne room with me. And he was a complete asshole, wouldn't keep his hands off me. Then he unzipped his pants. I talked him into zipping up and enjoying the dance, and then he tried to bite me. And that was it, I walked out of the room, and the bouncer who worked the rooms told him to leave. He went to the manager and wanted his money back. The manager came and told me to give him his money back. I said hell no, he needs to leave, or I'm leaving. The manager then explained to him that he had broken the law, assaulted the dancer, etc, and then he apologized to him for his bad experience and gave him a free drink. I packed my shit and got out of there. I'm sure the club lost more money by losing me than they would have lost by kicking that guy out.
Sorry for the rant, but it's that kind of night...
Lena
Jenny
10-04-2002, 01:57 AM
OH MY GOD! The last time I quit I had a similar experience (I was actually probably PMSing as well). I was sitting at the bar - not even dancing, I was talking to a guy - and these other guys come up the bar, one wraps his arms around me, like around my body, pinning my arms, and the other bites me on my breast. I threw the biggest spaz ever, and the manager was planning on kicking him out, but he laughed. And I just freaked, and started yelling at everyone "Do it look like we are in a goddam butcher shop? Do I look like a sample platter? We are people, not meat!" (Seriously I said these things) and I changed my clothes and I took off, and the next day I didn't want to go back in. I actually left all my clothes, make up and my My Little Pony lunch box just because I didn't want to go back. And your manager DIDN'T kick him out! I would have freaked. I don't actually think you've ranted enough. I think you need to rant more! So please. Rant. Yell. Capitalize.
Jenny
A 'My Little Pony' lunch box?
Seexxxxyy.....;D
I don't know if that's worse than the 'BraveStar' lunch thermos that I still have in my cupboard. ::)
Sorry, I just got a chuckle out of that.
---------------------
In regards to the actual issue at hand:
That's basically what I was trying to point out; If, as an owner/manager, you see, or hear of activity such as this, it's important to make sure your dancers are comfortable. If that means removing patrons, then so be it.
Don't let your customers control the way things are run.
jrockyb
10-05-2002, 10:01 AM
It seems to me that this type of behavior would be tolerated far more than discouraged, and it shouldn't be. I can definately see where managers would lean to the side of the customers no matter how big a jerk they had been, in hopes of more coming into the club. It's inexcuseable, and it's probably has as little chance of being fixed as finding a cure for the common cold.
Rocky
You're correct that there's little chance of it changing in the grand scheme of things; but in opening your own club, there's no reason why you must follow the status quo.
In having a club that puts dancers (employees) above all else, perhaps you'll be one of the few who practices wise business.
It helps everyone....Customers alike.
-------------------------------
Oooo, "House Member"; that's fancy. :)
jrockyb
10-07-2002, 11:53 AM
Tre:
You're absolutely right! We would never allow it to be the status quo in our own club. The dancers would be treated with complete respect, and we'd always rather lose a customer than allow one to be a big jerk and annoy the dancers. I guess it a little like raising kids. YOu set the limits and enforce them. If you don't enforce the limits you lose control.
Jackie & Rocky
jrockyb
10-13-2002, 05:34 AM
We have been wondering..Do the dancers communicate between each other as to the type of people they are encountering in the club? For example..the guy in the dark suit is a jerk, stay away from him, or the guy with the red hair tips well, or the couple on the right is a lot of fun..that sort of thing.
Jackie & Rocky
McCain
10-13-2002, 07:45 AM
To an extent they will, more so about the problem customers than the positive ones.
And it generally seems to be limited to the girls that they like. In other words, a girl will probably not warn a girl she dislikes about a problem guy. And she almost never will tell a girl she dislikes about a money-customer. The first incidence is pure spite, the second is refusing to slit her own throat.
McCain
What McCain said.
A good waitress will point your best hustlers towards the money customers.
Lena
charlie123
10-25-2002, 03:36 AM
ive just opened a club in cardiff and need dancers im running out of time can any body help please
Susan Wayward
10-25-2002, 04:08 AM
Cardiff as in Wales? I'll go there.
Melonie
10-26-2002, 07:20 AM
hoo boy! Not that I want to discourage you, but attempting to open a new club in Upstate NY is going to pose two problems you may not have considered. The first is POLITICAL problems. Every major city in upstate NY has enacted dance club zoning ordinance. Some have enacted no contact ordinances, no nudity ordinances, dancer's licensing etc. Some even have laws on the books specifically prohibiting the opening of additional "adult entertainment" businesses, meaning the only option is to buy out an existing club. All told, these political problems add up to a major risk that even after you pick a site, make your investment and actually open up for business that you'll find your club's doors locked a week later pending a year long court battle. Seriously, if you want to open a new club in upstate NY your only realistic option is to pick a tiny town near an Interstate exit and some sort of economic activity, and also a town that doesn't have a village board or a city government, then open your club without much initial fanfare. After you are an actual established business you can then promote the hell out of your club. As long as your club hasn't violated a state law (such as being located within 500ft of anyone's house, any gov't buildings, any churches etc) which can result in immediate closure, if the locality doesn't previously have anti dance club ordinances on their books before you open they can't pass one after the fact and close you down. However, they can try to make your life miserable! However, this is going to require a lot of 'covert' research into local ordinances in different town, which MUST be completed without tipping anyone off as to your intentions before you can actually get your doors open. I know of an upstate NY clubowner who opened a second club in a good sized town that hadn't previously had any dance clubs. Unfortunately, word leaked out as to the reason why certain questions were being asked during the research phase. Before the club could officially open (like the week before) the town passed an anti dance club ordinance. The new club opened - for exactly ONE HOUR - and was closed permanently as the ordinance outlawed full and partial nudity and all contact, and no club in NY can make money with girls dancing in bikinis with full nudity and high contact lap dances available at the club down the road!
The other issue in upstate NY (or all of NY and NJ for that matter) is that the vast majority of clubowners are members of the same "family" if you catch my drift. This is another reason to avoid the thought of opening up in a city which already has operating dance clubs - you don't want a 'mysterious' fire burning your club to the ground a month after it opens, or city/state undercover vice cops staking out your club once a week based on 'anonymous' tips.
Believe me I've been to practically every club in upstate NY and in bordering states as well. The PA border is actually your best option for a top earning new club, perhaps just across the state line south of Binghamton. PA laws are actually about the same as NY laws at the state level, but as far as I know the individual PA cities and towns haven't climbed on the anti dance club ordinance bandwagon.
Melonie
10-26-2002, 07:39 AM
and on the subject of shift pay, this may actually be a critical factor for initially attracting the kind of dancers you want in your club in upstate NY. If you simply open a new club which is 30 miles away from any existing club (which you'll need to in order to avoid a Pearl Harbor assault by city officials) you face the formidable task of attracting girls to travel the extra 30 miles to work for you. Without some financial guarantee, it's likely that the only dancers which will show up of their own volition when you first open are girls who are not earning much money in existing clubs due to (how do I put this tactfully) ranking below the top 1/3 of the SCORES scale, or girls whose normal method of promoting private dance sales is subject to prosecution in clubs with stringent law enforcement. Even if you open your club, (and I can't think of a way to put this other than being totally blunt) if the dancing talent your club is offering to customers looks like a Jenny Craig seminar and is lacking front teeth, the only repeat customers you're going to get are paupers, perverts and prosecutors!
So the question is - how can your new club attract top shelf dancers without an established club reputation and without an established club dancer earnings history? The answer of course is to PAY THEM CASH! You'll need to include this first year expense in your business plan. However, if you can maintain a decent offering of dancers your new club will quickly build a positive reputation, you will start to attract more upscale (or at least non-pervert) customers, the dancers will start to earn more money, the word about potential dancer earnings will get around, and you'll start to find top shelf dancers approaching YOU - at which point you can wean the original dancers off the shift pay (or better yet structure it initially as a guaranteed minimum per night/week rather than additional pay, so that the improved earnings will retire the extra expense automatically).
Certainly; what Melonie mentioned about including that operating expense in your business plan if you do decide to offer shift pay.
I'm sure you already know this but, Any, and all operating costs for the first full year should be available at start-up. Offering shift pay will have it's benefits after your club has established itself, yet in the short-run will probably prove to be very damaging to the pockets.
jrockyb
10-26-2002, 08:56 AM
Melonie...
Thanks for all your input. Interestingly enough, NEPA, south of Binghamton is the area, we've sort of been looking at lately, and yes, you are right about all the political/governmental hassles. In fact what's really a hoot..[no pun intended here] Hooters wants to open a new resturant in BInghamton, near the college. It used to be a Ground Round, and there have been pages of editorials in the local paper about this horrible "topless strip club" coming to open up! We've been having such a laugh about people with virtually no clue! Anyway, we have found that NEPA may be a good place to look into opening, or buying out a current place. Thanks..
Jackie & Rocky
Melonie
10-27-2002, 01:01 PM
The buyout option has a lot of positives going for it, particularly in the area of neighborhood opposition, politicians attempting to use a proposed new strip club as a re-election vote boosting tool, and general bad publicity. The only real negatives about buying out an existing club is that you inherit the club's image, reputation, customers and dancers. All of these negative factors can be addressed after the fact, though. The only caveat about the NEPA area at the moment is that the region is heavily dependent on a couple of very large area employers, and at least one of them, IBM, has problems right now which could potentially devastate the area economy if big layoffs were to occur.
Alanna
10-27-2002, 07:44 PM
i wasn't going to mention this before since you seemed to be going for the NY area, but i do know of a club in NEPA that's REALLY going down hill if you're willing to consider a buy out. it used to be a great club, but then i don't know what happened... absentee owner, new and lousy management... i'm not sure. but it's hanging on by the skin of its teeth at this point. i went there only a month or two ago to see what happened to the place myself, and i just could not believe how much it had gone down hill.
aside from maybe one or two girls, the dancers are, as Melonie put... Jennie Craig candidates that could use some front teeth (we're talking major hefers and serious uglies here). not only that, none of the dancers i saw that night could dance to save their life (they probably learned from the lousy dancers already there). the club is constantly begging for dancers to work there, and the ones they're able to get now just get worse and worse... no doubt, the vast majority of dancers that don't look like the spawn of the elephant man and aren't totally uncoordinated just aren't willing to work there anymore.
if management is the club's problem, it's not because they turn the other way when it comes to touchie-feelie going on because i understand they're actually very good about that, so it's not like the clientele is accustomed to that sort of thing there... if they were, they'd at least have the pervert customers.
i have a lot of male friends in that area who used to go there all the time when the place was nice. they've been complaining for awhile now (and according to them, everyone else in the area is too) how much it's fallen by the wayside. from what they tell me, MANY people from that area are now driving over an hour into the city to go to a nice club... and they're far from happy about having to do that. the club is probably hanging on now only by the features they bring in, but from what i hear, people are going (if they bother at all anymore) just to see the features and then simply leave.
i hate to say who and exactly where this club is in case dancers from there read this and it freaks them out, so i'll send you a private message about that. you can also read in the comments section on stripclublist.com what customers have been saying about the place.
i'll tell ya, if you bought them out, i might drive out there a couple days a week to work, and i know of quite a few other attractive hard working ladies that probably would too (it's a bit farther then i'd want to drive all the time, but you never know). actually, i know of three experienced very attractive dancers that would work there all the time since they live in the area... they'd be thrilled beyond belief not to have to drive all the way into philly to work at a nice place where they can make some money anymore.
and if you offered shift pay in the beginning, the dancers from the only real competition club in the area (and it wouldn't be much competition) would run to you like they were shot from a cannon... bringing a lot of customers with them. you'd more then likely get a lot of the area's dancers eager to work there once word gets out since so many of the ones that live there that are smart and look good are all driving to the city or some other distant town to work.
i'm totally serious when i say that when i went there not too long ago, the place was so dead and empty that when i spoke to someone right next to me, my voice made an echo! i was truly astonished at what has happened to this place... it's such a shame.