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Star
03-25-2002, 09:23 AM
ok had a long thread of varing opinions on contact dancing. It got to the point where we were insulting eachother out of frustration and I wasnt able to ask this question-
What is the purpose of grinding?
I am of the opinion it is to physicaly stimulate the mans penis- which can end up with a climax. This is where I have a problem with it. It is not a moral issue but more a legal issue. I was told that it is not the intent( to get the guy to cum) so if that is not the point what is? Please help me understand because I am feeling very one sided here.

Belinda
03-25-2002, 11:40 AM
I don't think you can win this one "over there." Maybe if the moot morality and price arguements hadn't surfaced, it wouldn't have deteriorated into a [perceived] personal insult fest. But they always DO surface because the baseline argument still stands sorta unchallenged--it ain't dancing, it ain't your job.

The point of all the groping and grabbing and dry-humping and every other activity that gets lumped into the "mileage" euphemism is real simple--get's you out of doing the job you can't, won't or don't do anyway.

I don't even think of it as a broadly enforceable legal issue anymore. You can't, really, when the majority of performers and clubs believe that either the performer or the club determines for herself or itself what constitutes lewd or lascivious conduct. As if the jurisdictional boundaries for enforcement begin and end at the front door.

Don't be too hard on those who can't see a cause and effect relationship beyond their own stage or booth or club. Sometimes people are faced with only the lesser of two personally objectionable choices in order to keep earning. And sometimes it leads them to believe that they really are powerless to affect any change in an industry that can't exist in any manner at all without them. I just like to keep gently reminding them of that last little part. ;)

Star
03-25-2002, 03:02 PM
Thankyou for your reply and thoughts. I hope that those who feel powerless in this issue are able to regain their personal power. I also hope that people will be more aware of the cause and result beyond themselves. This is a real hard one for me because I am of the mind that not only are they damaging the industry on a whole but for themselves as well. I would rather be able to earn a little less for longer period of time than a bunch for just today. I found it really odd that people are screaming we are suppossed to support eachother as dancers when what they are choosing doesn't even remotly support people like me at all..... again thanks for the reply!

03-26-2002, 01:28 AM
First, I would like to apologize for possibly coming across insulting on the other fourms. It was not my intent. My sole intent is to give my opinions and state why I feel the way that I do. It is also sad that you were feeling you could not ask the question, "what is the purpose of grinding?"

As you know I work in contact & non contact clubs. And perhaps maybe some girls are trying to make the customer cum by grinding but those are the amatures. Like I believe I said before, wether it's a contact dance or not the purpose of a dnace is to keep the customer enticed for as long as possible. That way you get as many dances as you can from him.

You say this is a legal issue but if doing contact dances are legal then where is your problem. Again to answer your queston directly, "What is the point of a Contact Dance?" My answer to you is, To keep the man enticed for as long as possible to make the maximum amount of money. Why would I want him to cum? Then that would be the end of the dance, hence the end of the money.

Now, in response to you, Belinda. Your perception of the exotic dance industry is obviously completly different than mine. And I'm sure different than many other people. "It aint dancing, it aint' your job." You percive this job to be all about, "The Dance". I percieve & many I'm sure agree with me that the dancing part of this industry is completly secondary. My job is to Sexually entice the customer first, and the dancing part just happends to be one of the tools.

"Gets me out of the job that I can't, won't, or don't do?"

You still are saying that the man focus of our job is to "DANCE" I'm saying it's to sexually entice men, and agian dancing is one of the tools.

I was never faced with HAVING to choose the lesser of two personally objectionable choices in order to keep earning. It seems it's just something that perhaps makes you feel better to think. "Oh poor me, forced into a like of contact dancing!" Please! I earn very well at the non contact clubs as well as the contact clubs. I do not feel powerless to affect any change in the industry because I do not feel a change is needed when it comes to this subject. The only changes I feel are needed are perhaps bigger dressing rooms and more makeup artists.

Obviously, I am no the one feeling Powerless here, others are. The only person that can make you feel powerless is yourself. ;)

Milla
03-26-2002, 02:48 AM
One thing that dancing for 7 years has taught me is the girls who bitch the most about contact dances are the most guilty of the contact dance. "She" just happens to be a little more discrete.

I have worked in contact and no contact clubs. In both types of clubs there is always someone willing to break the law. Who cares? I don't, because I still make my money. If you don't touch and the guy picks a different dancer, then his money wasn't for you anyway. Be glad you don't have to put up with his ass.

Star
03-26-2002, 06:42 AM
Ok - To Candice, I didnt mean to be insulting either and when I first stared using certain terms it was directed to Mr Punk, but I couldnt very well deny I said them. As for the legal issues. What I think alot of you are missing is that city councils in every town are using laws from other cities to base laws on in their city. These laws are never put to public vote and are decieded purely by the city councils. So when a city outlaws contact ( which is usualy what gets outlawed) other cities jump on the bandwagon. There are some crazy distance requirements out there such as 6 and even 10 feet. This affects the non contact dances too! It scares customers from going into clubs at all. It is fuel for the fire. And in the past several years it has been going on like wildfire from city to city. Another thing is most customers just do what they do in their home clubs so when they go to new places they dont ask the rules and I can go to JAIL for SIX months if a customer touches me- it doesnt matter if I stop him or tell him no, if the contact happens I can GO TO JAIL! And being that I have been able to pull in a couple grand a week w/o contact for several years I just dont get why others feel they need to be touched. I feel that the customers have been trained to expect contact just like they used to be trained that they could not touch. They will buy what ever we offer, they always have. Now some of you may say that the cities will try other laws besides contact laws and they have tried but the only thing they have been able to do in court is ban booze w/ nudity and ban contact. It is a constitutionaly protected right to preform and be paid for it. This has been upheld over and over. Please think on a broader spectrum than just that dance or your club because what you are doing is hurting every city and club.

Star
03-26-2002, 06:48 AM
Milla,
What do you mean who cares! There are lots of cities where if one dancer gets caught, all the dancers go to jail, or the club gets shut down. If one of your customers comes into my club and just grabs my butt because he is used to grabbing yours, I can go to jail for SIX MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!! And many of the contact dancers dont give a damn about a particular club or cities laws as long as they make their money that night. They have that "who cares" attititude. Well I fucking care! And I think it is really shameful that you don't. Why cant people see that they are not the only one's on the planet!

Milla
03-26-2002, 07:12 AM
Star,

Don't jump my ass just because I don't care. I was just stating my opinion. I also didn't say that I break the laws that are place on the particular club or area that I work in. I don't even depend on the club to let me know what the laws are...I go to City Hall or the Sherriff's Department to find out for myself.

It has also been my experience (note: "my experience"), that before any dancer's are arrested there is an investigation for a period of time. Then they come in with warrants and the whole nine yards for certain girls and the managers. If all the dancer's are taken, then it is usually because some little ordinance isn't being followed. Ex. Nipple covering. In fact, this just happened at my club last year. By the way, I didn't get arrested.

If a dancer doesn't like where she works or how it is run, then she should go work somewhere more to her liking.

I am talking from MY own experiences from the clubs that I have worked at. I am not dogging your opinion, but I do have my own opinions.