View Full Version : head scarfs
Ther was a case in florida,were an islamic women wouldnt take her veil off for her picture to be taken,so in that case they wouldnt take it and she tried to sue.I believe if you live in america,then there should be provisions.She should have been made to take it off for the photo,I agree with the dmv on that,she has to remember she is in our country know and thats the way it is.Same for us in other countries regarding different things but we still have to abide by the rules of the country.
You know what, I TOTALLY have to DISAGREE with you on that. True, she is in the U.S. now, but she is still a muslima. What alot of you fail to realize is that you aren't supposed to be uncovered before the eyes of a man. A man, someone other than your husband should not ever know what you look like uncovered since it is not for his eyes to see.
We have so many rights and liberties here. i couldnt' believe that they made her remove her hajib. Eventhough you cannot see her face, it is still freedom of religion. It is against her faith.
We supposedly have so many rights and freedoms here, but this right wasn't upheld...
Yeah its her religion but this country is based on different practices than her country. This country needs to see faces to be able to identify someone. Maybe there they dont, but here we do. Its virtually impossible to tell them apart when the eyes are covered. The head scarf is cool cause you can see the face, but the other one is too much especially for ID purposes. So what does this mean??? That I can cover my face, and shoot someone, but because its my religion, I dont have to take it off, thus them never findign out its me? EVERYONE should show there face for id purposes...other than that, I dont think they should BAN it. Just make it necessary that everyone is showing there face in IDs. You cant honestly tell me that you can tell one woman from another when they have the thing over there face can you? (The one only showing eyes)????
cinammonkisses
12-23-2003, 08:36 PM
The head scarf is cool cause you can see the face, but the other one is too much especially for ID purposes. So what does this mean??? That I can cover my face, and shoot someone, but because its my religion, I dont have to take it off, thus them never findign out its me?
Her covering herself up fully was her own personal PREFERANCE! not RELIGION! Like I said in my last post, if she wanted her id, then no there is nothing wrong with her wearing her hijab that covered only her head. But she didnt agree to that, therefore, she get's no ID. Oh well...
ok personal preference or religion, what I mean is that tey shouldnt ban it, however, everyone should show their face.
Ther was a case in florida,were an islamic women wouldnt take her veil off for her picture to be taken,so in that case they wouldnt take it and she tried to sue.I believe if you live in america,then there should be provisions.She should have been made to take it off for the photo,I agree with the dmv on that,she has to remember she is in our country know and thats the way it is.Same for us in other countries regarding different things but we still have to abide by the rules of the country.
i heard abouty this too ...i don't think they should band it but in a case where there are doing this for identification then i think lady should have just taken it off for that purpose ...i mean c'mon its for identification whats if 100 islamic women were to go get ID's then they all would look the same...just my $0.02
montythegeek
12-23-2003, 10:00 PM
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The reason for the goverment's decision is bcos in france many ppl have been abused and beaten for their religious belief's and they want to keep this out of the school's..... alexis is right it's a form of protection.
Seraya.
This is what is known in the law as a "heckler's veto" and is not allowed in the US - otherwise one could silence someone by threatening violence. A person's right to speech or religion can not be abridged because of the bad conduct of the people who choose to disagree with it and act badly. To permit such a veto is logically a right of everyone to silence everyone else and the result is not freedom of speech but silence. Funny how groups choose to "protect" only those they disagree with from the consequences of free speech.
lestat1
12-23-2003, 10:25 PM
I don't know much about this issue since I haven't read an article on it or seen it covered on the news, but I can share an experience. In college I dated a muslim woman, and her sister wore the 'head scarf.' She mentioned that it upset some american women who thought it was oppressive. She responded that it wasn't oppressive at all, she wasn't forced to wear it, it was just a personal choice. I don't know how much influence her culture and society had on that 'personal' choice, but she seemed fine with making it.
-lestat1
seraya
12-24-2003, 02:47 AM
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The reason for the goverment's decision is bcos in france many ppl have been abused and beaten for their religious belief's and they want to keep this out of the school's..... alexis is right it's a form of protection.
Seraya.
This is what is known in the law as a "heckler's veto" and is not allowed in the US - otherwise one could silence someone by threatening violence. A person's right to speech or religion can not be abridged because of the bad conduct of the people who choose to disagree with it and act badly. To permit such a veto is logically a right of everyone to silence everyone else and the result is not freedom of speech but silence. Funny how groups choose to "protect" only those they disagree with from the consequences of free speech.
I don't know the REAL reason for this law, none of us really do and i don't claim too i'm just i'm just reporting the "media" news.....
I don't know whether i agree with this new law in france. I personally believe that all religions should be respected...... and yes monty this would never happen in America where everyone has the right to freedom of speech, but they are 2 different countries.
If this was to happen here, even in the US i would be disgusted. However i look at it like this.... Whether right or wrong some laws should be respected..... If we were too travel to an (some ) Islamic countrie/s, we ( women) would HAVE to cover ourselves from top to toe. I believe this is fair and i respect that bcos we are in their country.... same way they should respect the laws/rules stated in other countries.
Seraya.
Seraya.
Melonie
12-24-2003, 03:31 AM
If we were too travel to an (some ) Islamic countrie/s, we ( women) would HAVE to cover ourselves from top to toe. I believe this is fair and i respect that bcos we are in their country.... same way they should respect the laws/rules stated in other countries.
Well, this very point caused a huge controversy back during the 1991 Gulf War. While Coalition troops were in Kuwait, many arab women got to see female US soldiers wearing standard "fatigues" and driving themselves around in Hummers. Immediately after the war many local women started throwing away their burkhas and headscarves and emulating the female US soldiers - actually going a bit farther by starting to wear snug jeans and stylish tops while driving around their Mercedes convertibles in public ! While this wouldn't have raised an eyebrow in a Western country it about sent the Imams into shock! Once the coalition military left in 1991 the Imams again instilled fear in these women, the burkhas and headscarves came back out and the Mercedes had male chauffeurs again.
The point here is that at least some portion of arab women see burkhas and headscarves as tools of oppression, and have clearly chosen to stop wearing them if they could. The same scene was replayed in Afghanistan after the Taliban were run off (although, unlike Kuwait, very few Afghani women can afford a Mercedes). While other arab women undoubtedly see them as a means to achieve privacy, this is far from a universal feeling.
But there does seem to be a concensus on the subject of burkhas and headscarves among the Imams ... if arab women stop wearing them it is taken as a public challenge against the male dominated rule of arab culture.
wasfatboy
12-24-2003, 09:15 AM
ok im gonna put on my flack jacket and heavy armour and pose a variation on this question then i will run away and hide in a bunker.
why is it if you travel to other countries or move to other countries you have to learn to speak there language? while here in america, where i thought american english was the national language, we spend tons of money to supply educations in "other languages"? and i thought i heard that florida was talking about changing there standard language in some schools? also why should we have to supply and pay for interpretures for these peopl when they need to take drivers tests or for other goverment functions? im talking about people with citisenship, is it not a requirement to learn the language?
im sorry if your gonna live here, be american, speak american, act american, if you want speak or act "insert foriegn contry here" then go back to it.
when i cant even go get a burger at a fast food joint without a translator somethings wrong.
sorry that is my opinion and i know i will get attacked for it. but i do want other opinions.
>crawling into bunker<
Pamela
12-24-2003, 09:22 AM
Don't know much about this issue, but i think if you are wearing anything that can NOT identify you, there may be problems.
Pamela
alexislv
12-24-2003, 09:58 AM
wasfatboy- i dont disagree with you at all...i know i'll get crap for this too! But I think the reason why we cater to everyone is because this is the land of opportunity and we give everyone a chance...i guess it just seems that people are taking advantage of that and not really trying to "fit in" to american culture like they have done in the past rather they expect things to be like their home country..which is only human nature..but to for example live in this country for 20 years and still not speak a word of english, yet all your kids do, is a bit ridiculous...i have a friend who came from another country and she spoke perfect english after a year in this country her parents to this day (she came to the US when she was 3 is 30 now) do not and she would get in trouble growing up for speaking english at home or wanting to do what her parents thought were "too american" ....i understand that part of it was to honor their own culture but when her parents would disdain her american friends or their american clothes, etc...i wonder if you dont like it here then why dont you go back to (insert country here)...I think we coddle people way too much....if you go to franch you better speak french, if you go to mexico you better speak spanish...why dont they get sh*t for that but we do?
wasfatboy ..i agree with you to a point i mean i dont see the reason why we here have to adjust to other peoples language when it should have been the other way around .....like alexis said if you go to france you better speak french and if you go to mexico you better speak spanish ....why should'nt it be the same here??
I totally agree. My family and I are hispanic but when they came here they LEARNED to speak spanish because they thought it was disrespectful if they didnt. (this was MANNNNY years ago)
A few years ago as well, I used to get chased with my best friend by this bunch of hispanic kids yelling out "WHITE GIRLS" (we look almost german but we are spaniard/cuban) and they chased us as if it were a BAD thing to be white, or not speak spanish?wtf?