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Katrine
02-28-2004, 05:50 PM
For example, why is it necessary to learn self-control when it comes to anger but not in the arena of sex?

I disagree, we are forced to have quite a bit of self-control over our sexual desires. Otherwise, all women would always be pregnant and STD's would be even more rampant than they are now. There would not be laws against rape/molestation. We also have religion and social pressure to "outcast" people who do not conform. Individuals who sexually exploit children are often violently lynched......

People have different natural levels of sexual energy as well. One person will want kinky sex with many people often, while another will want occasional traditional sex with one partner. The beauty of our western culture is its accomodation of our diverse needs....Yes, sometimes it can be too accomodating with some of the stuff on the web and in porn, but that brings up a freedom of expression issue which forays into another topic....


My sexual desires do not control me anymore

As I've already mentioned, this is unnatural. Our sexual desires are a very strong instinct for a reason...that big obvious one.


And I really think each of one us, male and female, would really like to experience a relationship with a person who actually is self-controlled in every thing they do.

Self-control can apply to many things, including the ability to give love. Personally, sometimes it take a loss of control to really go the distance and innovate, create, and really get into the mind's potential. Otherwise, I think cultural and technological progress would suffer. Self-control keeps the world spinning (well gravitational force does, but anywhoo), but going balls out crazy and changing the future, for good or bad, is what makes us human.... :goodvibes:

erotictonic
02-28-2004, 05:54 PM
For starters, I can't imagine women really wanting to be like the 'typical' male. And that's what you call progression?


You seem to be the one who hates men, which is what you are accusing us of. Who in the hell said that women want to be like the typical male? We just want to live with equal freedom.

AMERICAN
02-28-2004, 05:56 PM
I wonder if you women (and men) can agree that with sexual aggression comes other forms of aggression?

If the "feminist" woman continues in her search for aggression, she will most definitely begin to take on male character traits. And there will be more and more women cheating on their spouses, exploding with anger, abusing the people in their lives, becoming addicted to drugs to hide shame, more serial killers........and there will be more women in prison due to aggressive behavior that men are so well known for.

VenusGoddess
02-28-2004, 05:58 PM
You've given some really good advice here. No one can make a person feel or do anything, I agree. I do make the choice to conclude that when certain men look at me, he's looking at me like I am a piece of meat! But he makes it pretty obvious, to be honest with you! :o :o :o


You know...there are guys that are just bad poker players (they see a nice woman, and the salivary glands kick into overdrive, eyes bug out and they couldn't utter an understandable mono-syllabic word if they tried). He's looking at you like you are a piece of meat? Or is he telling you (non-verbally perhaps) that he finds you extremely pleasing to the eye? I used to get all bent out of shape when some guy looked at me like that (what a pervert!!) but now, I just let him be. I am flattered that he finds me attractive. It doesn't matter HOW he views you...the only thing that you can control is how you respond to that situation. Everything else is just drama...

BTW...I am not that young...29...so young enough... :)

AMERICAN
02-28-2004, 06:06 PM
For starters, I can't imagine women really wanting to be like the 'typical' male. And that's what you call progression?


You seem to be the one who hates men, which is what you are accusing us of. Who in the hell said that women want to be like the typical male? We just want to live with equal freedom.



And yes, to some extent, your comment is true. I am a hater of 'typical' male behavior. It seems that women in your mindset are winning the fight....because it would probably be a safe guess to say that at least 80% of all men in this country fit into the 'typical' male category. I would say at least 80% (probably much more) of all men participate in the various forms of pornography and sexual exploitation in this country. So you are definitely winning the fight. However, men complain to me that women are becoming more deceitful, manipulative, players, liars, etc., etc......I see it that men are starting to see a mirror image of themselves.

I just think we women can and should take a different approach. But I realize that's not a popular opinion on here. ;)

AMERICAN
02-28-2004, 06:14 PM
You've given some really good advice here. No one can make a person feel or do anything, I agree. I do make the choice to conclude that when certain men look at me, he's looking at me like I am a piece of meat! But he makes it pretty obvious, to be honest with you! :o :o :o


You know...there are guys that are just bad poker players (they see a nice woman, and the salivary glands kick into overdrive, eyes bug out and they couldn't utter an understandable mono-syllabic word if they tried). He's looking at you like you are a piece of meat? Or is he telling you (non-verbally perhaps) that he finds you extremely pleasing to the eye? I used to get all bent out of shape when some guy looked at me like that (what a pervert!!) but now, I just let him be. I am flattered that he finds me attractive. It doesn't matter HOW he views you...the only thing that you can control is how you respond to that situation. Everything else is just drama...

BTW...I am not that young...29...so young enough... :)



Yes, he may be saying non-verbally that I am 'well-pleasing' to the eye....but you know what? Odds are he's in a committed relationship or marriage, so I would like to tell him to go home and give that attention to the woman he supposedly loves and is attracted to!!

And I'm also talking about the man who waits for the opportunity to check me out as soon as his wife or girlfriend turns around. I just see this as very disrespectful to his woman. I just think the woman who is loving him, taking care of him when he gets sick, gives birth to his children, and is his life partner deserves that look....and not me.

ElektraRayne
02-28-2004, 06:21 PM
I strongly believe that there is nothing wrong with a stripper that also considers herself a feminist. A stripping career does not make any woman any less of a feminist, or any less moral. While it may be difficult for many to understand, I consider myself a feminist and strongly believe in the power of women, and I do not feel that my job makes my opinions or ideals any less credible.

AMERICAN
02-28-2004, 06:30 PM
For example, why is it necessary to learn self-control when it comes to anger but not in the arena of sex?

I disagree, we are forced to have quite a bit of self-control over our sexual desires. Otherwise, all women would always be pregnant and STD's would be even more rampant than they are now. There would not be laws against rape/molestation. We also have religion and social pressure to "outcast" people who do not conform. Individuals who sexually exploit children are often violently lynched......

People have different natural levels of sexual energy as well. One person will want kinky sex with many people often, while another will want occasional traditional sex with one partner. The beauty of our western culture is its accomodation of our diverse needs....Yes, sometimes it can be too accomodating with some of the stuff on the web and in porn, but that brings up a freedom of expression issue which forays into another topic....


My sexual desires do not control me anymore

As I've already mentioned, this is unnatural. Our sexual desires are a very strong instinct for a reason...that big obvious one.


And I really think each of one us, male and female, would really like to experience a relationship with a person who actually is self-controlled in every thing they do.

Self-control can apply to many things, including the ability to give love. Personally, sometimes it take a loss of control to really go the distance and innovate, create, and really get into the mind's potential. Otherwise, I think cultural and technological progress would suffer. Self-control keeps the world spinning (well gravitational force does, but anywhoo), but going balls out crazy and changing the future, for good or bad, is what makes us human.... :goodvibes:



Sexually-transmitted diseases are most definitely on the rise, though. And pregnacy rates are up, but most of the women who have with the stripper mindset also believe in abortion. Also, since humans have discovered 'the pill,' we have used that as an excuse to become more promiscuous. That is not the way 'sex' was intended. The pill and abortion, I don't think, were in the original plan of life. ;)

So you just limit sexual self-control to rape and incest?

Katrine
02-28-2004, 07:16 PM
[Sexually-transmitted diseases are most definitely on the rise, though. And pregnacy rates are up, but most of the women who have with the stripper mindset also believe in abortion. Also, since humans have discovered 'the pill,' we have used that as an excuse to become more promiscuous. That is not the way 'sex' was intended. The pill and abortion, I don't think, were in the original plan of life.

So you just limit sexual self-control to rape and incest

No, just examples.

Sex and violence are nothing new. The nature of humanity is neither good nor evil, just contingent upon our values and the immediacy of situation.

I just saw of photo of a Taliban soldier after his head was blown off with a large weapon. The shooter was my marine friend, and was so proud of that photo, beaming as he showed me and watched me freak....the dead soldier was an object to be looked at, no longer human, and obviously gave some US Marines a very perverse thrill...........was not sexual at all.......

I don't think that 20% of men are ideal as per your description...I think maybe 2% of men at most are what you look for...the rest of us just fall somewhere around trudging through our miserable lives having some hope that the people we encounter around us care a little bit........

AMERICAN
02-28-2004, 08:27 PM
[Sexually-transmitted diseases are most definitely on the rise, though. And pregnacy rates are up, but most of the women who have with the stripper mindset also believe in abortion. Also, since humans have discovered 'the pill,' we have used that as an excuse to become more promiscuous. That is not the way 'sex' was intended. The pill and abortion, I don't think, were in the original plan of life.

So you just limit sexual self-control to rape and incest

No, just examples.

Sex and violence are nothing new. The nature of humanity is neither good nor evil, just contingent upon our values and the immediacy of situation.

I just saw of photo of a Taliban soldier after his head was blown off with a large weapon. The shooter was my marine friend, and was so proud of that photo, beaming as he showed me and watched me freak....the dead soldier was an object to be looked at, no longer human, and obviously gave some US Marines a very perverse thrill...........was not sexual at all.......

I don't think that 20% of men are ideal as per your description...I think maybe 2% of men at most are what you look for...the rest of us just fall somewhere around trudging through our miserable lives having some hope that the people we encounter around us care a little bit........



I'm wondering if this last paragraph is a real or sarcastic comment? I was going to tighten the percentage, but I figured I would really piss the men off on this site so I stayed conservative! ;)

Someone accused me of stating that strippers are evil. And before now, I haven't used that word, but I'm going to use it now only because you've mentioned it.

I believe the nature of human is basically good and not evil, to be honest with you. It's just that so many people these days are choosing the 'evil.' All the things we experience in our early years form whether we have a good or evil view of the world. And unfortunately, many are being raised with parents who know virtually little about agape and unconditional love, unselfishness, responsibility, service to our families and friends, forgiveness, patience (I could go on and on and on). No wonder most people don't think anyone cares.

Pamela
02-28-2004, 09:35 PM
Ok i just jumped back into this thread, and all i want to know is can anyone explain to me what the hell American wants ? What is American's point ? And what is going on, men hater, lover...What?

Pamela ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Rayleen
02-28-2004, 10:18 PM
Well Pamela my guess from reading her drama is that she's here preaching to us to "respect ourselves" more.


Its the whole you're exploiting wome argument.

She is here distinctly seeking conflict.
We are being trolled.

ami
02-28-2004, 10:32 PM
For starters, I am personally sick and tired of walking down the street, going to Wal-Mart, while most every man who sees me turns around and checks out my ass or breasts (and I'm not dressed provactively at all!) or turns to see what pretty woman is in the car when I drive by. I'm tired of being treated by men in this way. In days past, I did enjoy this attention, but since then (now that I actually am secure with myself), I don't get a 'thrill' from this type of behavior, or this type of man. It seems that you girls still are attracted to this type of man. All power to you. I guess to each his own.


I dress in baggy clothes when I go out to avoid this too. I need down time where I am not the center of attention. I could never be a famous celebrity, the paparisi would drive me nuts.

As for women having sex with women, well I like women, I think we are waaaay sexier then men. I consiter myself bi although i lean more twards likeing women. (my husbands hot as #@!% though)

frangiapani
02-28-2004, 11:05 PM
There are trolls like this on about very board you will ever come across. that is human nature..sigh regardless, no one can judge but God himself.

Blade
02-29-2004, 12:56 AM
Blade, it seems you have misunderstood many things. I am not 'bashing' anyone. I am simply stating my opinions about people who are caught up in the world of the sex industry.

I would be interested in knowing how you people (girls and guys) would define sexual addiction. Is there such a thing? And what would it look like? What character traits would a sex addict have?

And Blade, if you go back and read my insert from the book.....it's not talking about prostitution in the sense of having sex with someone. Maybe you didn't read the entire post. Or maybe your mind could only concentrate on the word 'prostitute,' and your mind couldn't consider it to mean anything else but physical sex.

AND I AM NO BETTER THAN ANYONE ON HERE!! Period. I think my current choices are better, yes, but that in no way, shape, or form makes me better than anyone of you.

First of all let's look at the definition of bashing,the Merriam Webster dictionary defines bashing as"1 : to strike violently : HIT; also : to injure or damage by striking : SMASH — often used with in
2 : to attack physically or verbally <media bashing> <celebrity bashing>
I think we have determined that is EXACTLY what you are doing.Secondly let&#039;s look at the definition of prostitute(again from the Merriam Webster dictionary)"[3]prostitute
Function: noun
Date: 1613
1 a : a woman who engages in promiscuous sexual intercourse especially for money : WHORE b : a male who engages in sexual and especially homosexual practices for money
2 : a person (as a writer or painter) who deliberately debases his or her talents (as for money)
Function: adjective
Date: 1563
: devoted to corrupt purposes :
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -tut·ed; -tut·ing
Etymology: Latin prostitutus, past participle of prostituere, from pro- before + statuere to station —more at PRO-, STATUTE
Date: 1530
1 : to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money
2 : to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes : DEBASE <prostitute one&#039;s talents>
- pros·ti·tu·tor /-"tü-t&r, -"tyü-/ noun
The definition of stripper is also found in the Meriam Webster dictionary and it is[b]"Function: noun
Date: 1581
1 : one that strips
2 : STRIPTEASER
3 : a machine that separates a desired part of an agricultural crop
4 : an oil well that produces 10 barrels or less per day "
Now,where is this going I&#039;m sure most of you(including myself) are wondering....
Simple, Throught the last 2 threads strippers have often been confused with, or reffered to as, prostitutes and my goal was to point out the definition of both so there is no question about what each entity is or does for money.
As far as the excerpt from the book I see that I am not the only one to wonder what the hell the point was...Even though I am a man and have a simple mind, I do believe I know the difference between a stripper(dancer) and a prostitute(hooker). I also believe I have not misunderstood a thing, there has not been one bloody post by american that has not belittled someone somehow.As far as americans opinions go..opinions are like assholes,everyone has one.The difference being I sure as hell don&#039;t go around trying to push my opinions on people who don&#039;t want to hear them.
As far as I can tell from reading these endless posts american hates dancers, men who go to stripclubs, women who have sex with women or bare their breasts in public,hates women who go to stripclubs,men who work in stripclubs,men who stare at her,men who look at her as she drives by and let us not forget the straight women who look at her to find flaws in her to feel better about themselves.Have I covered everything?
Crawl back in your cave, take your outdated and outlandish ideals and holier than thou morals with you. This is the year 2004 and women have more power than you seem to give your kind credit for(hell I have a woman proofreading this before I post it to make sure I don&#039;t make myself look like too much of an asshole)Your mentality may have been correct in the dark ages but to quote some famous broad(virginia slim I think her name is) You&#039;ve come a long way baby!Yes I have tried to use humour in this reply simply because I am sick of the crap spewing forth from the fingers of some people.

erotictonic
02-29-2004, 01:16 AM
Alas, she would prefer to live like the Muslim women. Go for it, but don&#039;t think any of us are going to join you. We&#039;re too smart.

VenusGoddess
02-29-2004, 08:38 AM
I wonder if you women (and men) can agree that with sexual aggression comes other forms of aggression?

If the "feminist" woman continues in her search for aggression, she will most definitely begin to take on male character traits. And there will be more and more women cheating on their spouses, exploding with anger, abusing the people in their lives, becoming addicted to drugs to hide shame, more serial killers........and there will be more women in prison due to aggressive behavior that men are so well known for.


This behavior is not "typical" male behavior. Not just Feminists "take on" this behavior. People who behave in this fashion have taken to blaming their lot in life on other people, instead of taking the responsibility for themselves. People who behave this way are doing what you are doing...telling themselves that OTHER people are the cause of their anger, hate, lust, shame, etc. After enough years of not dealing with the truth and having all of this build up...well, that energy needs to go somewhere and the behavior described is the typical end result. You seem to think that throughout history, there have been nothing but kind-hearted, gentle, loving, accepting women who have just suffered through the most unbearable of human conditions caused by men. This is simply not true...stop being such a victim and take your power back!



Yes, he may be saying non-verbally that I am &#039;well-pleasing&#039; to the eye....but you know what? Odds are he&#039;s in a committed relationship or marriage, so I would like to tell him to go home and give that attention to the woman he supposedly loves and is attracted to!!

And I&#039;m also talking about the man who waits for the opportunity to check me out as soon as his wife or girlfriend turns around. I just see this as very disrespectful to his woman. I just think the woman who is loving him, taking care of him when he gets sick, gives birth to his children, and is his life partner deserves that look....and not me.


Ok...so let me get this straight...you think that because someone is involved in a relationship, then they should no longer look at ANYONE else, if even to say, "Wow...she&#039;s a real hottie!"?? You think that once someone finds "the person they love" that means that they go blind except for the "one true love" in their life? How do you even function in a relationship? I find it very hard to believe that you can even find a man that will not even look at another woman when he is in a relationship with you. My SO and I are very committed to each other...and we let each other look at other people. There is nothing wrong with appreciating beauty. There is nothing wrong with seeing someone you find attractive. How do you go to the movies? Don&#039;t you think that your bf/husband would be oggling over the movie star? That is not to say that he&#039;s drooling and running to the bathroom and jacking off...but, why is it so wrong to look at another person in a non-sexual way and appreciate their beauty?

And, again, for the last time...say this with me now..."I can NOT control anyone else&#039;s decisions, actions, speech, feelings, or thoughts. I can only control my own. I choose to let others do as they please. Nothing anyone does can affect me if I choose to not be affected. I am now removing my DRAMA QUEEN crown and burning it. From this day forward, I will no longer spend my days getting angry about things that I have no control over. My days of drama are gone, and I will be happy working on my own self and finding why I feel and react the way that I keep choosing to. And so it is."

The person who waits for his gf/wife to not be looking to check out someone that he finds attractive is a very typical trait...of a man who is with a woman who is very controlling and very insecure and believes that he is cheating on her by appreciating someone else&#039;s beauty. Are you sure that your name is not HELEN EKSTEROWICZ?

This topic has become more and more like a broken record and I no longer wish to participate. I feel sorry that you are choosing to keep doing the same old thing with the same old results. I hope that you find what really makes you happy and go with that. From this point on, I will not be looking at this thread. Have a good day.

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 10:34 AM
Alas, she would prefer to live like the Muslim women. Go for it, but don&#039;t think any of us are going to join you. We&#039;re too smart.



What women with mindsets similar to yours have done is only made it even more difficult to get a job in the &#039;normal&#039; world comparable to that of a man, with equal pay. Women with your mindset are teaching men even further that we are just sex, sluts, and here for a man&#039;s pleasure. Women can make more money, yes, than the &#039;average&#039; man by stripping or whoring herself. But take that same woman and put her in to the world of business and she will be treated only like a body by the majority of men she works with. Men don&#039;t take women seriously when we don&#039;t mind using our bodies to give them pleasure without any emotional commitment.

Pamela
02-29-2004, 10:45 AM
Now i can speak up! I work for a major hospital, and yes, i do make more money than many co-workers in different depts. As i have no men in my dept. I am in the corporate world too! Not just private dancing anymore. Have been at this hospital for years! I DO make more money the alot of men! And they treat me with respect, as do i treat them with respect!

My job at the hospital puts me in a whole different lifestyle change. I can&#039;t dress sexy, and i can&#039;t hustle. I need to use my brain, and i DEMAND respect from anyone who needs my services. I would expect to give the same respect to a woman or man at work.

It&#039;s just plain old good manners. I could give a rats ass who makes more money than me. I still get my pay for my services. Again....i make more money then many MEN at work. Big deal. :o

Who cares? really. If a woman does not take charge of her life, then she will get what is thrown at her, as will a man. Take charge! Love men and women! Love life. It takes both to make up the world ;D

Pamela

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 10:49 AM
I wonder if you women (and men) can agree that with sexual aggression comes other forms of aggression?

If the "feminist" woman continues in her search for aggression, she will most definitely begin to take on male character traits. And there will be more and more women cheating on their spouses, exploding with anger, abusing the people in their lives, becoming addicted to drugs to hide shame, more serial killers........and there will be more women in prison due to aggressive behavior that men are so well known for.


This behavior is not "typical" male behavior. Not just Feminists "take on" this behavior. People who behave in this fashion have taken to blaming their lot in life on other people, instead of taking the responsibility for themselves. People who behave this way are doing what you are doing...telling themselves that OTHER people are the cause of their anger, hate, lust, shame, etc. After enough years of not dealing with the truth and having all of this build up...well, that energy needs to go somewhere and the behavior described is the typical end result. You seem to think that throughout history, there have been nothing but kind-hearted, gentle, loving, accepting women who have just suffered through the most unbearable of human conditions caused by men. This is simply not true...stop being such a victim and take your power back!



Yes, he may be saying non-verbally that I am &#039;well-pleasing&#039; to the eye....but you know what? Odds are he&#039;s in a committed relationship or marriage, so I would like to tell him to go home and give that attention to the woman he supposedly loves and is attracted to!!

And I&#039;m also talking about the man who waits for the opportunity to check me out as soon as his wife or girlfriend turns around. I just see this as very disrespectful to his woman. I just think the woman who is loving him, taking care of him when he gets sick, gives birth to his children, and is his life partner deserves that look....and not me.


Ok...so let me get this straight...you think that because someone is involved in a relationship, then they should no longer look at ANYONE else, if even to say, "Wow...she&#039;s a real hottie!"?? You think that once someone finds "the person they love" that means that they go blind except for the "one true love" in their life? How do you even function in a relationship? I find it very hard to believe that you can even find a man that will not even look at another woman when he is in a relationship with you. My SO and I are very committed to each other...and we let each other look at other people. There is nothing wrong with appreciating beauty. There is nothing wrong with seeing someone you find attractive. How do you go to the movies? Don&#039;t you think that your bf/husband would be oggling over the movie star? That is not to say that he&#039;s drooling and running to the bathroom and jacking off...but, why is it so wrong to look at another person in a non-sexual way and appreciate their beauty?
And, again, for the last time...say this with me now..."I can NOT control anyone else&#039;s decisions, actions, speech, feelings, or thoughts. I can only control my own. I choose to let others do as they please. Nothing anyone does can affect me if I choose to not be affected. I am now removing my DRAMA QUEEN crown and burning it. From this day forward, I will no longer spend my days getting angry about things that I have no control over. My days of drama are gone, and I will be happy working on my own self and finding why I feel and react the way that I keep choosing to. And so it is."

The person who waits for his gf/wife to not be looking to check out someone that he finds attractive is a very typical trait...of a man who is with a woman who is very controlling and very insecure and believes that he is cheating on her by appreciating someone else&#039;s beauty. Are you sure that your name is not HELEN EKSTEROWICZ?

This topic has become more and more like a broken record and I no longer wish to participate. I feel sorry that you are choosing to keep doing the same old thing with the same old results. I hope that you find what really makes you happy and go with that. From this point on, I will not be looking at this thread. Have a good day.



I could say respond in other ways to this post, but since she&#039;s not coming back, I&#039;ll just comment on the one bolded statement. There is nothing wrong at looking at someone in a non-sexual way and appreciating that person&#039;s beauty. But I just don&#039;t see how anyone, being the sexual creatures we are, look at a stripper or any woman dressed like she&#039;s all about sex, and not look at her in a sexual way. Women&#039;s nudity in this country is not simply nudity....it is shown in a sexual way, as an object of sex for men. Most images of male nudity (at least in the movies or on TV) is seen as nasty, disgusting, and something we don&#039;t want to look at. Some of that is changing slowly, and maybe unattractive men (with little morals) some day won&#039;t be able to get that "beautiful" woman. Maybe those "beautiful" women will someday want more from their men than just a wad of cash in his pocket.

erotictonic
02-29-2004, 10:51 AM
What women like me are doing is ENJOYING THEMSELVES. While you sit around judging and hating the whole world, we are loving it. We&#039;ve tried to educate you here. The truth is, people who hate the world and are prejudiced and hateful see no logic, only hate. You can&#039;t follow simple logic, A + B = C, because you allow the strong hatred and resentment that you feel get in the way of your reasoning. You won&#039;t even answer Polecat&#039;s posts, because you know he&#039;s right. You don&#039;t have a mind complex enough to counteract, or even understand his arguements. This is my last post. I will not waste any more of my time on this, it&#039;s pointless. Go crawl back in the hole you crawled out of, you hateful bitch.

:boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies:
I LOVE STRIPPING - STRIPPER POWER - I LOVE STRIPPING - STRIPPER POWER

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 10:56 AM
Now i can speak up! I work for a major hospital, and yes, i do make more money than many co-workers in different depts. As i have no men in my dept. I am in the corporate world too! Not just private dancing anymore. Have been at this hospital for years! I DO make more money the alot of men! And they treat me with respect, as do i treat them with respect!

My job at the hospital puts me in a whole different lifestyle change. I can&#039;t dress sexy, and i can&#039;t hustle. I need to use my brain, and i DEMAND respect from anyone who needs my services. I would expect to give the same respect to a woman or man at work.

It&#039;s just plain old good manners. I could give a rats ass who makes more money than me. I still get my pay for my services. Again....i make more money then many MEN at work. Big deal. :o

Who cares? really. If a woman does not take charge of her life, then she will get what is thrown at her, as will a man. Take charge! Love men and women! Love life. It takes both to make up the world ;D

Pamela




You&#039;ve made some really good points. I have a few questions and/or comments. Yes, I agree that it is definitely possible to earn respect from men in the business world, but the way that is done is to not use sex as a stepladder. It seems you are doing that, and that is absolutely awesome! It seems that you have said you can&#039;t (or don&#039;t) dress sexy at work and don&#039;t hustle men. Most professions in the business world are professions were women can (and do) use their dress and their flirtatious nature and their ability to sleep their way to the top as a tool to get them to the top. And that is just no way to earn respect from men, in my opinion.

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 11:06 AM
What women like me are doing is ENJOYING THEMSELVES. While you sit around judging and hating the whole world, we are loving it. We&#039;ve tried to educate you here. The truth is, people who hate the world and are prejudiced and hateful see no logic, only hate. You can&#039;t follow simple logic, A + B = C, because you allow the strong hatred and resentment that you feel get in the way of your reasoning. You won&#039;t even answer Polecat&#039;s posts, because you know he&#039;s right. You don&#039;t have a mind complex enough to counteract, or even understand his arguements. This is my last post. I will not waste any more of my time on this, it&#039;s pointless. Go crawl back in the hole you crawled out of, you hateful bitch.


STRIPPER POWER



Okay. You want me to respond to Polecat. I will go back to that loooonnnnggg post after I finish this and will respond to him. It seems to me, with all of his seemingly deliberate &#039;intelligent&#039; words thrown into his poast (word that aren&#039;t used in everyday language, by the way, but which I can understand of course and don&#039;t mind looking up the ones I don&#039;t know!) and the way he seems to deliberately form his sentences, he is trying to prove something and trying to intimidate my intelligence. I wasn&#039;t interested in playing his game. He knows what I&#039;m talking about too. I&#039;ve been around men who are trying to &#039;prove&#039; their intelligence and actually feel inferior around women. Men like this don&#039;t realize how transparent they really are. I just wasn&#039;t interested in debating &#039;women&#039; issues with a man either. But if it turns you off because I haven&#039;t, I&#039;ll go back and do it anyway.

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 11:22 AM
I&#039;ve gone back and reread Polecat&#039;s post, and I have to take back some of what I said because I think I got his language confused with some woman on here that likes to use her &#039;educated&#039; words to prove her intelligence. I chose not to respond to him, one, because I&#039;m still not sure how to copy and paste parts of his posts and then respond to them individually (but I&#039;m going to go back and try to figure that out!) and also because he was obviously a man trying to do what I said in my last post. I wasn&#039;t interested in playing his game, as I said. I&#039;ve gone back to try to figure out the copy and paste feature so that I can put comments in between his comments, but I can&#039;t figure it out yet. This is just something new to me; I&#039;ll get it figured out.

Pamela
02-29-2004, 11:38 AM
And my last post, this thread seems beyond help.

AMERICAN, i work for 3 WOMEN who are my boss. They are STRAIGHT....Husbands, kids 2 cars dogs cats and on and on and on.....

I have a strict dress code. Skirts or dresses 2" ubove the knee only, hair tied back or polished in some way. Blouses, tops...No cleaveage.

Wow sounds like a typical boring dress code. And it is, with out a man to screw my way to the top! I really like that!!

Don&#039;t insult me again please by insinuating i MUST sleep my way to the top to make money.

Pamela, who gives fantasy where it is needed, and REALITY where it is not, i,e. hospital work.

erotictonic
02-29-2004, 11:54 AM
Yea, go ahead and throw him into the mix with the other "typical men". This guy is on our side, you stupid bitch. But seeing as you NEVER get the point of anything written, you don&#039;t see that either. People like you need to be locked in a room and brainwashed. That is your only hope, you don&#039;t have the brain capacity to learn. Polecat is NOT trying to intimidate anyone. He doesn&#039;t intimidate me in the least. Some people just operate on this level. You are less than common. He&#039;s not playing any kind of game, he is trying to educate an obvious idiot. You can&#039;t even figure out how to respond to a post. I can understand every word in that post, and I follow his logic perfectly. You are a trained monkey, brainwashed by your boyfriend. I would even cheat on you, and I&#039;m not a cheater. I&#039;m good friends with this person, and I&#039;ll tell you what, he is transparent. Transparently compassionate, caring, tolerant, and open-minded.

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 12:14 PM
And my last post, this thread seems beyond help.

AMERICAN, i work for 3 WOMEN who are my boss. They are STRAIGHT....Husbands, kids 2 cars dogs cats and on and on and on.....

I have a strict dress code. Skirts or dresses 2" ubove the knee only, hair tied back or polished in some way. Blouses, tops...No cleaveage.

Wow sounds like a typical boring dress code. And it is, with out a man to screw my way to the top! I really like that!!

Don&#039;t insult me again please by insinuating i MUST sleep my way to the top to make money.

Pamela, who gives fantasy where it is needed, and REALITY where it is not, i,e. hospital work.



I don&#039;t believe I accused you of sleeping your way to the top. I was talking about the women in this country who get their way to the top by using their sexuality....and you don&#039;t seem to be doing that in your hospital job.

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 12:17 PM
Yea, go ahead and throw him into the mix with the other "typical men". This guy is on our side, you stupid bitch. But seeing as you NEVER get the point of anything written, you don&#039;t see that either. People like you need to be locked in a room and brainwashed. That is your only hope, you don&#039;t have the brain capacity to learn. Polecat is NOT trying to intimidate anyone. He doesn&#039;t intimidate me in the least. Some people just operate on this level. You are less than common. He&#039;s not playing any kind of game, he is trying to educate an obvious idiot. You can&#039;t even figure out how to respond to a post. I can understand every word in that post, and I follow his logic perfectly. You are a trained monkey, brainwashed by your boyfriend. I would even cheat on you, and I&#039;m not a cheater. I&#039;m good friends with this person, and I&#039;ll tell you what, he is transparent. Transparently compassionate, tolerant, and open-minded.



It seems that many of you seem to get a response from people you call a &#039;bitch.&#039; ;) It won&#039;t work with me. Call me whatever you want.

erotictonic
02-29-2004, 12:20 PM
I WILL, BITCH. PEOPLE LIKE YOU AREN&#039;T WORTH WORDS UNLESS THEY&#039;RE CURSE WORDS.

Topaz
02-29-2004, 12:24 PM
DIE damned thread.... :computer: DIE!!!!!


:bullwhip:

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 12:30 PM
I WILL, BITCH. PEOPLE LIKE YOU AREN&#039;T WORTH WORDS UNLESS THEY&#039;RE CURSE WORDS.



And I&#039;m the people hater? I wouldn&#039;t curse anyone, no matter what they&#039;ve done to me.

erotictonic
02-29-2004, 12:50 PM
YOU&#039;VE ALREADY ADMITTED TO BEING A PEOPLE HATER. I AM AN "AMERICAN" HATER, "AMERICAN" BEING YOU.

CURSING IS THE ONLY THING YOU DON&#039;T DO. YOU HAVE STEREOTYPED US, HATED US, INSULTED US, AND ABUSED US. FRANKLY, I HOPE YOU GET RUN OVER BY A TRUCK. THE WORLD WOULD BE A BETTER PLACE WITHOUT YOU. WHEN YOU JUST INSULTED MY FRIEND, WHO HAS DONE NOTHING BUT TRY AND HELP YOU, THAT IS WHERE I DREW THE LINE. YOU ARE A STUPID, DUMB BITCH WHO THROWS HATE VIBES OUT ALL OVER THE PLACE TO TRY AND MAKE HAPPY PEOPLE MISERABLE LIKE YOU ARE. DIE, BITCH.

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 02:22 PM
YOU&#039;VE ALREADY ADMITTED TO BEING A PEOPLE HATER. I AM AN "AMERICAN" HATER, "AMERICAN" BEING YOU.

CURSING IS THE ONLY THING YOU DON&#039;T DO. YOU HAVE STEREOTYPED US, HATED US, INSULTED US, AND ABUSED US. FRANKLY, I HOPE YOU GET RUN OVER BY A TRUCK. THE WORLD WOULD BE A BETTER PLACE WITHOUT YOU. WHEN YOU JUST INSULTED MY FRIEND, WHO HAS DONE NOTHING BUT TRY AND HELP YOU, THAT IS WHERE I DREW THE LINE. YOU ARE A STUPID, DUMB BITCH WHO THROWS HATE VIBES OUT ALL OVER THE PLACE TO TRY AND MAKE HAPPY PEOPLE MISERABLE LIKE YOU ARE. DIE, BITCH.




This will probably be my last post to you, because it seems all it does it throw you into a state of uncontrolled rage, which is definitely not good for you.

I simply gave my "opinion" about what his motives were in his post. I think I&#039;m entitled to my opinion, just like you are when you assume you know why BW and I have come here. I would hope that I could given an opinion without being called a &#039;bitch&#039; or wished to die. Maybe my opinion was inaccurate, but it was JUST an opinion. Seems to me that you saw truth in it or you wouldn&#039;t have gotten so defensive?

Pan Dah
02-29-2004, 02:48 PM
Most professions in the business world are professions were women can (and do) use their dress and their flirtatious nature and their ability to sleep their way to the top as a tool to get them to the top. And that is just no way to earn respect from men, in my opinion.


Congratulations! With that quote alone, if you were someone who anyone paid attention to, you would have set feminism (70&#039;s, 90&#039;s or whatever) back about fifty years. It&#039;s still difficult for many competent professional women to command the respect they deserve in many quarters. Resurfacing old canards such as this is the last thing they need. You owe an apology to at least the four female managers and countless female co-workers I have known over the last 15 years, all of whom achieved their status by job expertise and managerial skill, not their bedroom acrobatics.

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 03:12 PM
Most professions in the business world are professions were women can (and do) use their dress and their flirtatious nature and their ability to sleep their way to the top as a tool to get them to the top. And that is just no way to earn respect from men, in my opinion.


Congratulations! With that quote alone, if you were someone who anyone paid attention to, you would have set feminism (70&#039;s, 90&#039;s or whatever) back about fifty years. It&#039;s still difficult for many competent professional women to command the respect they deserve in many quarters. Resurfacing old canards such as this is the last thing they need. You owe an apology to at least the four female managers and countless female co-workers I have known over the last 15 years, all of whom achieved their status by job expertise and managerial skill, not their bedroom acrobatics.



I don&#039;t believe I owe anyone an apology, because there are most definitely women like that. It&#039;s just getting more common and accepted these days for some reason. Hike up the skirt, lower the blouse, buy tighter clothing, get the sexy eyes and voice going, let the men you work for know you work as a stripper (though maybe some of you strippers keep that private). If you don&#039;t realize women like this exist, you haven&#039;t stepped foot in many business offices or courtrooms lately, have you? No, all women aren&#039;t like that.....FORTUNATELY!! And I wasn&#039;t referring specifically to anyone on here. And if you will go back and read my post, I most definitely was not referring to Pamela.

Katrine
02-29-2004, 04:47 PM
Some women flirt and sleep their way to the top, and believe it or not, some men do too. They may not engage in actual sexual intercourse with their male boss, but they brownose, buy presents, take them to stripclubs (hehehe), and go that extra mile to get the promotion....


Its called ambition, and people use their assets to get what they want. Hard work, intelligence, and devotion are integral parts of ambition, but we perceive those terms differently. The ability to "sell" a product, which includes selling yourself to get that job, project, promotion, etc...involves making people feel good, for them to trust you. Many men use their sexuality to achieve this, but it may be more subtle, or more power based, or simply more emotionally appealing and less irking to you.......

Also, bashing prostitutes is not helping either side&#039;s argument. Prostitution is the world&#039;s oldest profession, as we all know (Mary Magdelene, anyone?) and is present in all cultures, current and antiquitous......the gender equality that you strive for is a pipe dream.

We are sexually dymorphic creatures. In the animal kingdom, species that are more physiologically similar seem to have more egalitarian social systems. Men and women have many similar differences that require stratification, at least to some extent, at least it helps maximize our efficiency because we each have our strong competancies, ie childbearing or lifting heavy things...

Sure, we are not apes, we are civilized and self-actualized. But sometimes you must deconstruct your argument, and consider WHY its not so easy to have gender equality, and why its probably not even ideal....

Did I use too many big words?

Pan Dah
02-29-2004, 05:20 PM
Most professions in the business world are professions were women can (and do) use their dress and their flirtatious nature and their ability to sleep their way to the top as a tool to get them to the top. And that is just no way to earn respect from men, in my opinion.


Congratulations! With that quote alone, if you were someone who anyone paid attention to, you would have set feminism (70&#039;s, 90&#039;s or whatever) back about fifty years. It&#039;s still difficult for many competent professional women to command the respect they deserve in many quarters. Resurfacing old canards such as this is the last thing they need. You owe an apology to at least the four female managers and countless female co-workers I have known over the last 15 years, all of whom achieved their status by job expertise and managerial skill, not their bedroom acrobatics.



I don&#039;t believe I owe anyone an apology, because there are most definitely women like that. It&#039;s just getting more common and accepted these days for some reason. Hike up the skirt, lower the blouse, buy tighter clothing, get the sexy eyes and voice going, let the men you work for know you work as a stripper (though maybe some of you strippers keep that private). If you don&#039;t realize women like this exist, you haven&#039;t stepped foot in many business offices or courtrooms lately, have you? No, all women aren&#039;t like that.....FORTUNATELY!! And I wasn&#039;t referring specifically to anyone on here. And if you will go back and read my post, I most definitely was not referring to Pamela.


And if you will go back and read my post, I most definitely did not mention Pamela, oh mistress of the red herring. Pamela is taking care of herself quite well. I was discussing the dozens of professional women I work with every day in the business offices of a major corporation, and those we deal with in other businesses as clients or suppliers, all of whom are tarred by your broad-brush attack.

Certainly the literal phrasing of you quote is true. There is probably no job, from fry cook at McDonald&#039;s to CEO of Hewlett-Packard where a woman could not advance in the ways you mention, and undoubtedly for many of these jobs, just as for the job of wife, there are some women who do. But the effect of your phrasing is to indict most women in these jobs, giving ammunition to sexist patriarchal males.

And where are the statistics behind your contention it is getting more common these days? Or is that, like every other word you have written in these threads, merely your uninformed opinion?

Blade
02-29-2004, 06:24 PM
Perhaps my last post was a bit harsh. True the opinions and views expressed by american are not opinons or views that I personally share, but to each their own.
While it is fine to want men to stop objectifying women, and women to stop using their bodies and/or sexuality to advance their careers, it&#039;s not going to happen in the near future.
I feel that your treatment and eventual dismissal of me is insulting, remember you came to this site and started condeming us not the other way around.Yes perhaps I overreacted, but that is to be expected when the gist of your diatribe is that you hate anyone who lives their life a certain way.I feel that I tried to respond with intelligence and after being told over and over again that because I am a man who frequents strip joints or because I work in the sex industry my opinion matters not to you, I finally reacted with anger and spite.
You said that you do not think you are better than anyone else, yet your posts give the distinct impression that you do in fact think you are superior to at least men.
Before you object..was it not you who refused to reply to polecat because "he was obviously a man trying to do what I said in my last post. I wasn&#039;t interested in playing his game, as I said."
The game was trying to intimidate you with his intelligence,are you so naive to believe that men cannot be intelligent?You speak of him using words that aren&#039;t found in everyday conversations, yet you use words like agape to descibe love...Who the hell says agape?
So let&#039;s see if my responding to you with my intelligence instead of my anger educes a rebuttal from you(yes stripclub dj&#039;s can have an iq over 25)

jenna2479
02-29-2004, 06:40 PM
Let&#039;s all play a game. It&#039;s called "Who can ignore this thread and it&#039;s creator?"

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 07:12 PM
Some women flirt and sleep their way to the top, and believe it or not, some men do too. They may not engage in actual sexual intercourse with their male boss, but they brownose, buy presents, take them to stripclubs (hehehe), and go that extra mile to get the promotion....


Its called ambition, and people use their assets to get what they want. Hard work, intelligence, and devotion are integral parts of ambition, but we perceive those terms differently. The ability to "sell" a product, which includes selling yourself to get that job, project, promotion, etc...involves making people feel good, for them to trust you. Many men use their sexuality to achieve this, but it may be more subtle, or more power based, or simply more emotionally appealing and less irking to you.......

Also, bashing prostitutes is not helping either side&#039;s argument. Prostitution is the world&#039;s oldest profession, as we all know (Mary Magdelene, anyone?) and is present in all cultures, current and antiquitous......the gender equality that you strive for is a pipe dream.

We are sexually dymorphic creatures. In the animal kingdom, species that are more physiologically similar seem to have more egalitarian social systems. Men and women have many similar differences that require stratification, at least to some extent, at least it helps maximize our efficiency because we each have our strong competancies, ie childbearing or lifting heavy things...

Sure, we are not apes, we are civilized and self-actualized. But sometimes you must deconstruct your argument, and consider WHY its not so easy to have gender equality, and why its probably not even ideal....

Did I use too many big words?



You say my wish for appropriate gender quality is a pipe dream. I would like to ask why you say that?

Women have done a beautiful job turning even the decent men in this country into a bunch of perverts......why not use your power in a more constructive way?

Seems I am striving to &#039;improve&#039; society in a decent way. Maybe some of you will change your story in years to come when you finally see it&#039;s not working for you and your looks and bodies become old and wrinkled and your husbands leave you for younger, more beautiful women (you sure won&#039;t be the sex able to get a young stud). Unfortunately, the used up old perverted, ugly, fat, and bald rich man will always find some young broad only interested in money, social status, and attention.

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 07:25 PM
Perhaps my last post was a bit harsh. True the opinions and views expressed by american are not opinons or views that I personally share, but to each their own.
While it is fine to want men to stop objectifying women, and women to stop using their bodies and/or sexuality to advance their careers, it&#039;s not going to happen in the near future.
I feel that your treatment and eventual dismissal of me is insulting, remember you came to this site and started condeming us not the other way around.Yes perhaps I overreacted, but that is to be expected when the gist of your diatribe is that you hate anyone who lives their life a certain way.I feel that I tried to respond with intelligence and after being told over and over again that because I am a man who frequents strip joints or because I work in the sex industry my opinion matters not to you, I finally reacted with anger and spite.
You said that you do not think you are better than anyone else, yet your posts give the distinct impression that you do in fact think you are superior to at least men.
Before you object..was it not you who refused to reply to polecat because "he was obviously a man trying to do what I said in my last post. I wasn&#039;t interested in playing his game, as I said."
The game was trying to intimidate you with his intelligence,are you so naive to believe that men cannot be intelligent?You speak of him using words that aren&#039;t found in everyday conversations, yet you use words like agape to descibe love...Who the hell says agape?
So let&#039;s see if my responding to you with my intelligence instead of my anger educes a rebuttal from you(yes stripclub dj&#039;s can have an iq over 25)



Yes, I definitely respond much better to someone who actually wants to talk about the issues. So thank you for changing the tone of your post.

I would like to ask you, Blade, IF it were possible to have a gorgeous, blue-eyed, long-haired blonde (may not be your hair color but just imagine), who works out every single day, 5&#039;5", 125 pounds, tight and toned and tan, who is the mother of your beautiful children, who is extremely uninhibited in the bedroom, who loves to give you oral sex ANYTIME you ask her (but you have to be sweet and not demand it), who will dance for you to turn you on, loves anal sex if you love anal sex, loves to bring herself to orgasm while you watch, loves to receive oral sex, keeps up her appearance, takes care of your home, is there when you want to talk, and proves by her actions that she only fantasizes about YOU.......wouldn&#039;t you rather have this kind of woman than a woman that takes off her clothes to turn other men on and talks about other men&#039;s gorgeous, muscular, perfect bodies all the time?

Well............I am that kind of woman. And you know what? You probably don&#039;t believe it. And if you don&#039;t, then that proves my point that you are hanging around the wrong kind of woman. But again, maybe you&#039;re not interested in this kind of woman? Many men actually are. They just are starting to believe that women like me don&#039;t exist. And we are definitely becoming a dying breed.

erotictonic
02-29-2004, 07:37 PM
Ok, I knew this person was an idiot. Now I am convinced that this person is also a sick whacko. You need to consider therapy, and a psychiatric evaluation. No one here can follow your reasoning. What are you trying to do, break up his marriage? I am beginning to believe that you may be a fatal-attraction type.

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 08:09 PM
Perhaps my last post was a bit harsh. True the opinions and views expressed by american are not opinons or views that I personally share, but to each their own.
While it is fine to want men to stop objectifying women, and women to stop using their bodies and/or sexuality to advance their careers, it&#039;s not going to happen in the near future.
I feel that your treatment and eventual dismissal of me is insulting, remember you came to this site and started condeming us not the other way around.Yes perhaps I overreacted, but that is to be expected when the gist of your diatribe is that you hate anyone who lives their life a certain way.I feel that I tried to respond with intelligence and after being told over and over again that because I am a man who frequents strip joints or because I work in the sex industry my opinion matters not to you, I finally reacted with anger and spite.
You said that you do not think you are better than anyone else, yet your posts give the distinct impression that you do in fact think you are superior to at least men.
Before you object..was it not you who refused to reply to polecat because "he was obviously a man trying to do what I said in my last post. I wasn&#039;t interested in playing his game, as I said."
The game was trying to intimidate you with his intelligence,are you so naive to believe that men cannot be intelligent?You speak of him using words that aren&#039;t found in everyday conversations, yet you use words like agape to descibe love...Who the hell says agape?
So let&#039;s see if my responding to you with my intelligence instead of my anger educes a rebuttal from you(yes stripclub dj&#039;s can have an iq over 25)



Blade, I do not hate men, I can promise you that. But like I have said, I don&#039;t like the behavior that many men and women have these days. I think, as a woman, I am put on this earth to be a man&#039;s helpmate, his supporter, his wife, the mother to his children. And this next comment will really get these women going because they will think I am someone who allows a man to control me, and that is most definitely not true!! But what I have found if you love a man like a man is supposed to be loved, give him his place in the family unit, he will give you everything. Women are trying to stand in front of a man.....this is simply not the way things are supposed to be.

And I have met some extremely intelligent men. So no, that assumption is not correct either. And I promise I am not saying that men or women who work in the sex industry are not intelligent. It is my opinion that they are using their intelligence in a way that is self-destructive and disrespectful of themselves (that is an opinion, by the way!) There are geniuses on death row, you know (not saying you guys are that way, I promise...only making a point).

You made a comment about my use of the term &#039;agape love,&#039; so I&#039;ll try my best to explain it. There are three kinds of love: phileo, agape, and eros.

Eros is what we are most familiar with and is sexual in nature (a self-fullfilling love). Phileo is like a brotherly type love. And Agape has to do with the mind and is spiritual in nature. Agape is not an emotion; it is a principle by which we deliberately live. It is the kind of love that we are to have for our enemies.

Phileo and agape are actually the only two that are really love, though, because it is self-sacrificing, for others. Like I said, eros is not really love because it is self-fulfilling, for self.

Does this make sense? I may not be explaining it very well. But love has nothing to do with self, believe it or not.

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 08:18 PM
Ok, I knew this person was an idiot. Now I am convinced that this person is also a sick whacko. You need to consider therapy, and a psychiatric evaluation. No one here can follow your reasoning. What are you trying to do, break up his marriage? I am beginning to believe that you may be a fatal-attraction type.



No, I&#039;m not trying to break up his marriage. I already have a man. But maybe it might get him thinking about getting his beautiful wife and himself (and his children) away from this environment. I wasn&#039;t always here myself. I had an extremely difficult time not fantasizing about other men (and women for that matter) while I was polluting my mind with strip clubs, porn magazines, Internet porn, involving another woman in the bedroom, and fantasizing verbally about other partners with each other. And it takes a while away from this crap to get it out of your mind.

Deanna
02-29-2004, 08:20 PM
Ok now it&#039;s MY turn..... this is Blade&#039;s wife for the few who don&#039;t know it yet.I was going to stay out of these rediculous posts because well to be honest I have better things to do with my time but now I feel it&#039;s time to say a few things. I don&#039;t know who you think you are but you are obviously very misled to think that YOU are the perfect women for all or most men. You asked my husband if he can imagine " a gorgeous , blue-eyed, long-haired blonde (may not be your hair color but just imagine), who works out every single day, 5&#039;5", 125 pounds, tight and toned and tan, who is the mother of your beautiful children, who is extremely uninhibited in the bedroom, who loves to give you oral sex ANYTIME you ask her (but you have to be sweet and not demand it), who will dance for you to turn you on, loves anal sex if you love anal sex, loves to bring herself to orgasm while you watch, loves to receive oral sex, keeps up her appearance, takes care of your home, is there when you want to talk, and proves by her actions that she only fantasizes about YOU"

Well sweetheart I may not be blonde hair and blue eyed( I have black hair and green eyes) and I may not be 5&#039;5 125( I am more like 5&#039;10" and 155) but i assure you that EVERYTHING else you have made mention I also am very into and then some!!!!
As far as "wouldn&#039;t you rather have this kind of woman than a woman that takes off her clothes to turn other men on and talks about other men&#039;s gorgeous, muscular, perfect bodies all the time?"
Yes I am a dancer that is my JOB for now. As far as talking about other men gorgeous, muscular,perfect bodies all the time..... both he and I can appreciate someone else who takes good care of themselves MALE AND FEMALES alike!!! And yes we both look and talk about them together!!!

Now the point in which you say you are that kind of woman and if he doesn&#039;t believe you than he hangs with the wrong kind of woman...I DON&#039;T BELIEVE YOU!!! You have shown nothing to even remotely show you are open-minded and uninhibited. All you have shown me is that you are very closed-minded, judgemental, and stuck up! Most men that I have talked to (inside and outside of my work environment) want all that you have mentioned AND to be able to fantasize with their partners. You saying that you don&#039;t look and don&#039;t want a man that looks at another woman goes against human nature. Every man and woman looks at others and if you are with someone that says he doesn&#039;t or he doesn&#039;t have fantasies about someone else or you with another woman...WAKE UP HONEY he is lying to you!!!!! We as human animals can not help it , it is part of being human and a part of nature.

In closing I thank the gods I am not part of the "dying breed" , that I will go on to teach my daughters how to be openminded with all in their lives not just their sexuality, not to be afraid to be whoever or whatever they feel they want to be when they are grown and last but not least how to be a strong independant woman that can choose for her own paths and not to follow the mindset of people who judge others.

Deanna
02-29-2004, 08:23 PM
Erotic hun... don&#039;t worry just as me and Blade check out others together we also laugh at her posts together...actually I am starting not to laugh anymore and feel bad for her. Sounds to me she leds a very boring life and is also clueless that her man is in fact looking and fantasizing and won&#039;t tell her because she can&#039;t handle it.

Beautiful Woman
02-29-2004, 08:35 PM
I am sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience. I too have had bad experiences with Christians and due to that I do not attend church nor do I plan to ever start doing so. Not just one bad experience but many (one wouldn&#039;t be enough to turn me off)...like yourself, I feel that too many Christians are backstabbers who freely sin then condemn others. I avoid churches completely except for things like weddings and funerals. I haven&#039;t attended church since I was a kid.
At least you learned from that and can still see positive things from certain people that you encountered despite their faults. In my opinion, genuinely good people can be found everywhere....both in and out of the churches.


I was a DEVOUT Christian and had all the morals and ethics that come with it--I was appalled by the sex industry as a whole and felt it was immoral. However, I never belittled the women who chose to partake in it.

I&#039;m not trying to change anyone&#039;s mind. I am trying to have a discussion on this discussion message board. I am not trying to belittle strippers for their profession or nudity in general.
I have an opinion - if it doesn&#039;t match others then I can see why their feelings might be hurt. At the same time, if they are comfortable with who they are and what they do then I would think that my opinion wouldn&#039;t bother them and discussing this with topic would be OK. I am not sitting here calling them names, threatening them, or anything like that.
When Christians tell me that I&#039;m going to hell....I don&#039;t even blink at that b/c it doesn&#039;t phase me. I can discuss the issue with them comfortably even though we both strongly disagree b/c I am completely comfortable and confident in my beliefs.
I find it interesting that I&#039;ve heard from many people that I have defended myself honorably, been mature regarding my comments, etc. etc. THEN in the next breathe I hear but you are "out of hand"? To me that is a contradiction. If I am being mature and honorable then how am I also "out of hand"??? Why aren&#039;t more strippers confident and independent? Now, I have met a few on here that I feel have some of those qualities...Mariah, VenusGoddess, & Ami are 3 that I recall offhand who I feel displayed some confidence, independence, and maturity.
One theme that I&#039;ve heard over and over on this message board is that &#039;outsiders&#039; (non-strippers) do not really understand strippers so some of them wish to educate people. I am not taking this seriously at all.....the discussion. It is just that, a discussion. I just find it interesting and fascinating - enough to chat about this topic. I don&#039;t recall offering to help anyone nor is that a goal or concern of mine. Likewise, I&#039;m not asking for help.
I simply had some free time on my hands b/c I had my wisdom teeth pulled and thought I&#039;d surf the net and post on this message board. It really is not that big of a deal.
If people want to talk about this fine....if not that is fine too. There are so many other threads on this board for people who don&#039;t want to discuss this to go to.


But, if you tell them in such a way that only ignites dislike, hatred, miscommunication, or any other negative effect, are you helping them? Are you changing their mind? Certainly not. I&#039;m all for helping people--it&#039;s a major part of my life--but you can never force a person to change....ESPECIALLY if you love them.

What happened to your advice about not belittling people? If you are going to give a long post telling people not to be rude.....then give reasons why being rude shouldn&#039;t be done.....plus give life examples of how you&#039;ve witnessed people being rude to others....then why would you end your post with this?


American--you really need to shut the hell up--you can&#039;t make an intelligent argument...if you can even CALL in an "argument"...to save your life. BW, I see that you are trying....however, please realize that your efforts are now in vain...people have plugged their ears and started humming. At least for my own personal sanity, have at least the respect for this forum as a community for strippers, people in the sex industry, and their supporters and patrons and just back out quiety. You won&#039;t change a single mind here--we&#039;ve ALL been confronted with this situation before (you&#039;re not the first to point this stuff out)--and we&#039;ve chosen this side of the fence time and time again--you will NOT be the one to change our minds.

AMERICAN
02-29-2004, 09:19 PM
Ok now it&#039;s MY turn..... this is Blade&#039;s wife for the few who don&#039;t know it yet.I was going to stay out of these rediculous posts because well to be honest I have better things to do with my time but now I feel it&#039;s time to say a few things. I don&#039;t know who you think you are but you are obviously very misled to think that YOU are the perfect women for all or most men. You asked my husband if he can imagine " a gorgeous , blue-eyed, long-haired blonde (may not be your hair color but just imagine), who works out every single day, 5&#039;5", 125 pounds, tight and toned and tan, who is the mother of your beautiful children, who is extremely uninhibited in the bedroom, who loves to give you oral sex ANYTIME you ask her (but you have to be sweet and not demand it), who will dance for you to turn you on, loves anal sex if you love anal sex, loves to bring herself to orgasm while you watch, loves to receive oral sex, keeps up her appearance, takes care of your home, is there when you want to talk, and proves by her actions that she only fantasizes about YOU"

Well sweetheart I may not be blonde hair and blue eyed( I have black hair and green eyes) and I may not be 5&#039;5 125( I am more like 5&#039;10" and 155) but i assure you that EVERYTHING else you have made mention I also am very into and then some!!!!
As far as "wouldn&#039;t you rather have this kind of woman than a woman that takes off her clothes to turn other men on and talks about other men&#039;s gorgeous, muscular, perfect bodies all the time?"
Yes I am a dancer that is my JOB for now. As far as talking about other men gorgeous, muscular,perfect bodies all the time..... both he and I can appreciate someone else who takes good care of themselves MALE AND FEMALES alike!!! And yes we both look and talk about them together!!!

Now the point in which you say you are that kind of woman and if he doesn&#039;t believe you than he hangs with the wrong kind of woman...I DON&#039;T BELIEVE YOU!!! You have shown nothing to even remotely show you are open-minded and uninhibited. All you have shown me is that you are very closed-minded, judgemental, and stuck up! Most men that I have talked to (inside and outside of my work environment) want all that you have mentioned AND to be able to fantasize with their partners. You saying that you don&#039;t look and don&#039;t want a man that looks at another woman goes against human nature. Every man and woman looks at others and if you are with someone that says he doesn&#039;t or he doesn&#039;t have fantasies about someone else or you with another woman...WAKE UP HONEY he is lying to you!!!!! We as human animals can not help it , it is part of being human and a part of nature.

In closing I thank the gods I am not part of the "dying breed" , that I will go on to teach my daughters how to be openminded with all in their lives not just their sexuality, not to be afraid to be whoever or whatever they feel they want to be when they are grown and last but not least how to be a strong independant woman that can choose for her own paths and not to follow the mindset of people who judge others.


Deanna, it is nice to hear from you. You are definitely beautiful and have a great body.

I was simply being completely honest and upfront with him, whether you want to believe it or not. Why do you assume a woman is uptight, frigid, and inhibited if she doesn&#039;t want to share her body with the world? That is rather odd thinking to me.

And at the end of my post, I stated that some men may not like that kind of woman. Some men really get off in fantasy world. No problem. But yes, there are MEN and WOMEN who are don&#039;t objectify human beings. You just haven&#039;t been around them.

Pryce
02-29-2004, 10:22 PM
:headache:

Please lets keep the topic moving...if it just becomes the same arguments over and over, I will be locking this thread.

Deanna
02-29-2004, 10:43 PM
Well unlike you american I NEVER generalized all women that don&#039;t "share their bodies with the world" as uptight,figid and inhibited in fact I didn&#039;t even use those words so please DO NOT put words in my mouth. I do not generalize anyone since I don&#039;t appreaciate when it is done to me. The comment I made was directed towards you and what I have seen in your posts. And my response to your last comment I didn&#039;t disagree with you on what i said. I know many people that don&#039;t objectify others in any way shape or form so don&#039;t tell me who I have been around or who I know. What I said was if you think that your man never thinks about another or never looks at another he is lying to you... unless he never leaves the house, never goes online, and you don&#039;t own a t.v..