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polecat
03-13-2004, 09:43 PM
Sorry Pamela- I should have been more specific as I'm not targetting the citizens of Sweden, just the government with their Bill 1997/98:55 which prohibits prostitution.

What you have expressed is a decriminalized stance, yet they have legal prohibition on the books. The end result is basically the same here- which is illegal by law, but allowed by understanding of zero enforcement. The problem is, the "tolerance" evaporates where legal representation occurs.

I agree most of Europe is way ahead of the US in terms of how they prioritize things. Nudity, pornography and whatnot are not taboo, but this also reduces the earnings potential. The US is totally whacked as it's tolerable for our children to see blood, guts, gore and violence on TV and in movies, but the moment a breast comes into view, it flips the rating to 17+. It speaks volumes for the values our society has been creating (i.e. violence = good, nudity = bad).

The point about decriminalization is- picture if, God forbid, anything happened to you. Be it an act of violence or other crime against you in your line of work. A good defense lawyer would be able to condemn you to the level of a "prostitute" by simply drawing focus on the how your customers are required to use condoms and your shows have contact that lead to orgasm. Hell, it's even been done in the past with more conservative judges for standard lapdances. It becomes a crippling basis for assuring your legal rights and representation. What you do is safe, victimless, and between consenting adults. Your services should be awarded the same rights as any independent contractor, be it someone that paints houses, does interior decorating or even private dance/strip shows.

It doesn't matter how progressive or tolerant a given region may be for the actual services, it's how the legal representation in the cases of victims working within them that defines how liberal and just they are.

Pamela
03-13-2004, 09:48 PM
Attack the government hon! I hate Government! But i am cool!!!!

Pamela

abadvi
03-13-2004, 09:55 PM
sandy--thanks for opening our eyes! I'm sure we never would know anything about stripping otherwise, since our collective decades in the actual industry are all we have to go on.

I don't want girls doing extras at non-extras clubs where I am employed, because then my customers try to do what she is letting her customers do. And yes, guys will get non-extra dances if that's all there is to offer. Just because many men will take the freebies doesn't mean we should be expected to give them.

and I don't think that legalizing prostitution will somehow make society worse for women--but it might expose the already-rampant sexism that is currently under wraps.
I do agree with sandy in that capitalism makes EVERYTHING a commodity. We are selling our time, our appearance, and our brains, like lots of other non-stripper workers. I think the reason that strippers get a worse rap than other folks (in addition to hysterical puritanism) is that we are women that acknowledge what society wants of us and thinks of us, and we dare to use it to our advantage instead of letting it keep us "in our place."

Rayleen
03-13-2004, 11:19 PM
I learned many of these tricks working at a nude club in Phoenix that had private rooms. The guys could please themselves if they wanted in the private rooms (lotions, oils, kleenexes all provided) but this was a very by-the-books club. Strange, so many girls working places, esp. topless places, looked down on us for this practice, but it was the cleanest club I have ever worked in. Cameras in every room, and if we broke the slightest rule, security would come knock on the door, pull us out of the room in the middle of the show, and reprimand us.

We could sit with him on the couch (lap dances, he could jerk off, whatever) as long as we were completely clothed (in dancer gear). If we took off any item, or revealed or breasts or whatever, we HAD to be on the little "stage" in the room, a minimum of three feet away from the couch. With a railing on the stage and everything.


:) This sounds interesting , I like the fully dressed unless on the stage w/ cameras for security. Are you sure it's legal though ??? I guess the customer might be braking the law masterbating.... Hmm. What club is this?

Dreamer
03-15-2004, 09:49 AM
How is bending a John into a customer immoral, I don't get it ???



A John is a customer. How is a customer>customer immoral?



Because you are using personal greed ( the same way a john trying to bend a dancer into a prostitute) dictate an immoral/wrong deed.


Trying to bend a dancer into a prostitute is called pimping and is against the law in this country. When you are dealing in the sex business ,advertising is unallowed.



So, if you go into an auto garage wanting tires and are coerced into buying an oil change or shocks that you don't need/want, is this right? Or if you need a TV and you are only allowed to buy a radio, is this right?


That's a different thing. It's called fraud. The auto garage shouldn't be able to sell you an oil change unless he secures your permission to do so.



Johns really have no business in stripclubs, except in a few select clubs in SF, Houston or the more raunchy/seedy clubs abroad where it's an embraced rule by all the dancers (i.e. no mismatched expectations by anyone on shift). This is where the problem truly stems. If one just so happens to wander into the wrong place (i.e. one where this is not tolerated or embraced by the dancers on staff), it is no sin to lay out the house rules and try to sell them what's offerred by that club. But it IS wrong to suggest that it's a good-fit that should be the goal (i.e. coerce johns into only being customers).


Anyone who pays the admission price has the right to enter the S.C. cosidering that they abide by the rules set forth by the club.

Speaking of the flame war that I missed on this article I'd like to ask the contenders, "What does their subject have to do with Pamelas original' Well I'm out of a club,so' ?" Being so I guess both sides were right in calling each other "trolls".
Last question before this article becomes locked. Do people think of prostitution as empowering to women or subjugating them to men?

tampafldancer
03-16-2004, 12:59 PM
pamela... I am curious, you are in fl right?

well, im sick of the club scene as well, but do not want to run out of an agency or do any extras. Other then posibally grinding (providing protection) no sex, etc

i contacted centerfolds, but chickened out. Where do you get repeat customers? Do you adverise?

Katrine
03-16-2004, 05:07 PM
I&#039;m curious to why Dreamer always puts his remarks inside the </quote> tag???

Pamela
03-16-2004, 09:13 PM
Yes Tampafldancer i am in Fl. I get customers by word of mouth. I meet many people at my other job (hospital) and actually it all started with someone telling lots i danced, anyway i have guys who ask for private parties and i do them. These people usually know someone i know, or have heard/seen me and just ask.

So far word of mouth has been doing fine, if i want more parties i guess i would run an add.

Some months i get a party every weekend, other times i get nothing, it&#039;s up and down.

We have what you call "The little Paper" which takes adult adds for cheap, good thing about this paper, it&#039;s free to everyone, and at all news paper machine pretty much, i would probably start there.

May i ask what part of Florida you are in? You can PM if you want it off the board. If close enough i can help with parties, No sex.

Pamela

IACali
03-16-2004, 10:01 PM
I learned many of these tricks working at a nude club in Phoenix that had private rooms. The guys could please themselves if they wanted in the private rooms (lotions, oils, kleenexes all provided) but this was a very by-the-books club. Strange, so many girls working places, esp. topless places, looked down on us for this practice, but it was the cleanest club I have ever worked in. Cameras in every room, and if we broke the slightest rule, security would come knock on the door, pull us out of the room in the middle of the show, and reprimand us.

We could sit with him on the couch (lap dances, he could jerk off, whatever) as long as we were completely clothed (in dancer gear). If we took off any item, or revealed or breasts or whatever, we HAD to be on the little "stage" in the room, a minimum of three feet away from the couch. With a railing on the stage and everything.


:) This sounds interesting , I like the fully dressed unless on the stage w/ cameras for security. Are you sure it&#039;s legal though ??? I guess the customer might be braking the law masterbating.... Hmm. What club is this?



Oh, in reality it WAS a dirty nasty little club - (but CLEAN as far as touching went) - what a strange contradiction. It&#039;s Fantasy Island on the outskirts of Tempe. The owner&#039;s a little :crazy: if you know what I mean, he&#039;s into all kinds of don&#039;t-even-want-to-know-about-it business enterprises. I quit that club shortly after a :ninja: fight broke out in the parking lot. Guns were fired and all, and the girls were all herded downstairs into a bunker that no one knew existed.... scary. i&#039;m more of a :peace: girl myself.

But it was an education, and I valued my time there because it taught me how to "escape the clutches" of a guy who wanted more without insulting him.

Kali

ATLDiscoLawyer420
03-17-2004, 12:33 AM
:&#039;(



your avatar is horrible

vegasvixen1
03-17-2004, 12:50 AM
VANILLA DOG ROCKS!!!!!!! you made mr. "suck my cock" look exactly like the shit eating douche-bag that he so unfortunately is. :)

foxee555
03-17-2004, 07:41 AM
Vanilla, your posts are positively famous! Love your POV.

Sanderson, nice teeth.

I am not currently dancing. I&#039;m working as a bartender. I recently quit the pub I was working at because the owners daughter gave away half the goddamn bar. Meanwhile, the rest of the barstaff endured not only tirades from the owners about overpouring, inventory discrepencies ect. . But also, lack of tips from customers who we did not (and COULD NOT) give free and or "extra" drinks.
See where I&#039;m going? If you work with people who circumvent rules and laws to the detriment of YOUR income, YOUR GONNA BE FUCKIN PISSED!!!

Like Big Worm says "fuckin with my money, is like fuckin with my emotions"

jagged
03-17-2004, 10:11 AM
Pamela could I ask what you do for security? Also how much you charge? How would I find out if a show like yours is legal in my area? I&#039;m sick of the amount of bullshit involved in working at a club. I&#039;d rather find a way to do my own thing, but I would have to make sure it was *safe* and *legal.* Thanks for any info.

Dreamer
03-17-2004, 10:25 AM
I&#039;m curious to why Dreamer always puts his remarks inside the </quote> tag???


I simply haven&#039;t figured out how to isolate the quotes individually. Hey ,how about someone answering my questions? ;D

Pamela
03-17-2004, 10:41 AM
I know Dreamer can answer for himself but check out site issues, alot of us have trouble at times with just about everything at one time or another here, hell i can quote but don&#039;t, can&#039;t size my pics however.

To Jagged: I have a male friend who goes on ALL parties. I call a gf, and tell her to call me back at the expected time of leave on my cell. She also knows where i am at. That works for my security.

I negotiate all monies before the show, accept NO tips for anything not agreed upon before hand, there is a fine line, tips for an extra say grind...can&#039;t do. So, i get a flat fee before any show. I will do what i say, not what they want or expect.

Believe it or not i did a show for a K9 officer, and he thought it was all good. No sex for money, and grinding is allowed, some clubs allow it, jacking off...well get away from me, and i don&#039;t participate. As for the condom thing...well i don&#039;t want cum on me while ld&#039;s, so i am protecting myself, i go all nude.

They never touch boobs or vagina...ever. Hold my hips is fine, ass slapping seems to be a favorite for one guy, but that&#039;s all he does! Lol.

I had to make sure i was not doing anything illegal.

I was told do not accept tips for extra participation, and no sex, i,e. hj&#039;s, bj&#039;s fingering or fondling, and i will be fine. I am in Fl. So check out the laws in your state. I only accept checks, NO cash. This is a business and i am registered as so.

Good luck,

Pamela

Pamela
03-17-2004, 10:51 AM
Jagged price does depend on how many people are there, what i will be doing, and length of party.

Some don&#039;t pay too much and want a short party, that&#039;s fine. Others will pay very well and want you for too long in my opinion. It can make you tired. :P

I had a $400 1 hour night with 2 guys. I had a $50 hour with 1 guy, alot of in-between prices as well. It depends on if you want the party or not. I do solo shows so there is no variety of dancers, i better be good at what i do. Lots of repeats, that is what i was praying for! ;)

That&#039;s all i can think of at this point. YES, all the newbies and games made me leave the clubs, the clubs are not what they used to be 10 years ago. I was not heading for a raid because some dancer was doing "the nasty." I think some dancers need a handbook about the industry, the clubs are no place to fuck with a mans mind or money, and i also feared we would get a customer who was going to go postal a few times.

Pamela

Isis
03-17-2004, 12:46 PM
I have a male friend who goes on ALL parties. I call a gf, and tell her to call me back at the expected time of leave on my cell. She also knows where i am at. That works for my security.


Does ur male friend stay in the room w/ u during the entire session?


:flower:

Pamela
03-17-2004, 01:29 PM
Nope, he cares not to see guys getting ld&#039;s and such, he will sit inside another room with the door open enough to hear. Funny you mention that, i never wanted him to wait in another room, he said the guys would all think he was gay or something. Lol.

He had a good point. There are times i tell him to stay in the room, he text messages friends, and plays on his laptop as well. He is always in ear shot!

Pamela