View Full Version : AQ claims another American
Rhiannon
05-12-2004, 10:02 PM
LOL Lexi *muah*
Stealing Soul
05-12-2004, 10:19 PM
Yes I do feel sadden by the news however it was more because of the effects of seeing it in pictures rather than the event it self.
This is war, people go there knowing the risk they are taking. Many business people take that risk for the hazard pay they get which is a ton of money.
Rhiannon
05-12-2004, 10:29 PM
This is supposedly what was said by the one speaking before Mr Berg was killed... A website had it translated from Arabic into English:
A statement to the nation
The praise of Allah for all Muslims with his support and the humiliating of those who attempt to defeat Islam and who attack it and who entice the unbelievers with their cunning.
The one that appreciated the days countries with its justice and the prayer and the greeting on from above the Islam lighthouse by its sword as for after :
The Islamic nation
You rejoice at the first signs of the dawn that have started that have granted the wind of triumph. Allah was benevolent to us in Al Fallujah, granting us victory
On one of the days of Allah and that was known to Allah alone
The Islamic nation
Does any excuse for waiting remain? How the free Muslim sleeps, with his eyelids closed.
And he sees that Islam is slaughtered and can be seen bleeding its dignity
And the shameful pictures and the news of the evil humiliation of the Islam people men and women in Ghareb 's father prison then where the jealousy and where the zeal and where the anger about the Allah's religion and where the jealousy for the Muslims sanctities and where the revenge for the honors of Muslims and Muslims is in the crosses prisons .
As for you are the Islam clerics then to Allah we complain about you, you see that Allah have founded the argument on you by the Islam young man who humiliated the strongest force in the date then broke its nose and destroyed its pride
We came to you that you learn from them the reliance meanings and derive from their doing the lessons of sacrifice and redemption to when you remain as the women you master only the slapping language and know only the way of wail and weeping
Then this appeals the world freemen and this it begs Kofi Annan and a third begs Amr Moussa and fourth he demands peaceful demonstrations and as if they did not hear to his saying ( ( O you the prophet incited the believers to the fight ) )
You were fed up with the fight of the conferences and the oratorical battles ohm came to you that you take the jihad way and carry the sword that sent by it the prophets master
And we beg from you that you do not be involved as usual in the denial of what will do it satisfaction of the Americans
He has ordered the prophet - peace be upon him - and he is master the merciful are with the slitting of the necks of some prisoners and their slow killing
And for us it is an example and a good example
As for you, the Roman dog Bush, I hope you are displeased and we wait for you with God's Help tough days and you and your soldiers today who tred Iraq's land will regret it.
And she dared in it to the Muslims fever
And another message to traitor Pervez Musharraf then we say to him that we in wait for your meeting with your soldiers
We demand of the American and will take revenge for the blood of our brothers in and Iraq and elsewhere
And as for you and the Americans soldiers wife then we say that we offered to the American administration this prisoner in exchange for some of the prisoners in Abu Ghareb prison but they refused
Then we say but if the dignity of Muslims and Muslims in Abu Ghareb prison and others is worth theur blood and souls
we tell you to know that the coffins will arrive to you one coffin after another, as your people are slaughtered in this way.........
Then you kill the polytheists where you find them and you take them and count them and place them where they can be seen.
Allah is the greatest and the honour to Allah and to its messenger and to the militants
And our last claim is that the praise of Allah is the Lord of the Worlds
Abu Mus'ab Alzrqawy
Prince of Al Tawhid group and jihad
Iraq
22 Rabi I 1425
*******************
11/5/2004
And you see the slaughter, your fighting brothers suspend the head of this unbeliever on one of Baghdad bridges so that they teach a lesson to others from the infidels and serves as a witness to the honour of the Muslims
Posted from the site that Rhia provided...
Abu Banan translated the closing remarks, taken from the Repentence Sura of the Qu’ran, as follows: "So kill the mushrikeen wherever you see them”
The “mushikreen” are those who do not follow Islam, people who are considered apostates or polytheists.
Others translate it more literally. “Kill them (the unbelievers) where you find them.”
Either way you translate it the message is clear.
They want to kill us. They will kill is if we give them the opportunity. We can either fight them in Iraq, or we can fight them in American streets if we don't stop them overseas. But we will have to fight this war, one place or another.
So no matter what happens, even if we are "at peace with them" and we arent all believers of Islam they will still want to kill us all? Wow what a GOD! >:(
"And as for you and the Americans soldiers wife then we say that we offered to the American administration this prisoner in exchange for some of the prisoners in Abu Ghareb prison but they refused " (from the translation)
This whole thing that Rhia posted is a SCARY translation.
And that part that I copied is scary too. Who knows if that is the truth and the american admin doesnt want to say that it happened??
polecat
05-12-2004, 11:00 PM
And that part that I copied is scary too. Who knows if that is the truth and the american admin doesnt want to say that it happened??
It could very well be true, and it's absolutely well founded on US policy.
US policy is "no negotiations with terrorists.. period." It doesn't matter if they are threatening to kill one man, a busload of children, or 100 women/children. No negotiations will ever be entertained with terrorists.
The logic behind this policy is- the moment the USA gives into terrorist demands becomes the moment you put an even higher price on the heads of Americans. i.e. if they capture Americans and use them as bargaining chips to get what they want, then they will have extra incentive to capture/hold hostage Americans.
Whether or not the offer was made remains to be seen.. but these extremists ARE clearly dictating US policy. If the offer was made, the answer would have absolutely been a NO WAY by strict US policy.
I just watched the video of the execution/murder of David Berg.
nick berg, david pearl :)
Daniel Pearl
lol you girls are so cute.
LOLOLOL OOOOOOOPS!!! Thanks again Rhi! hehe ;D
Quoted from Rhi's post RE; translation...
"Then we say but if the dignity of Muslims and Muslims in Abu Ghareb prison and others is worth theur blood and soulswe tell you to know that the coffins will arrive to you one coffin after another, as your people are slaughtered in this way......... "
Yea, ok, you know, I was way out of line with my earlier post i guess. Gee, all they want from us is blood and our souls. Hell, let's bake em all some apple pie and take em to a ball game - that will get this whole peace thing going.
They are telling us that our men and women will be slaughtered - shit, go easy on em. Let's just forgive and forget, right? HELL NO! This is CRAP!
Next I'm gonna hear we should be grateful for them even sending our people home in coffins. These guys are champs. How dare I want to kill the pricks.
Do you not see what we are dealing with here? WAKE UP PEOPLE!
These are not the innocent people commiting these acts, so they are the ones that should be punished. And as far as being cautious and taking civilians captive, do they have any other choice????
We reward the heros (the Iraqui that walked miles to save J Lynch) and we should punish the criminals to the full extent.
And another thing, the suicide bombers have been mainly civilians - ummm, yea, see theres the guy i want to run into walking down a dirt road in the middle of Iraq, which, i may add, our troops have encountered over there numerous times.
These people are INSANE. They are fucked up in the head.
And unless Ossama or Saddam is their "God", whoever they pray to while beheading an innocent man should strike their asses down with lightening!
God, I am PMSing!!!!!!
Ants, I hear ya hun. My PMS has fizzled some, so I am thinking a bit better now though I am still angry as hell.
Its just so sad that the worst is coming and we will never know when. The link Rhia gave seems to have some great info on it.
They said that Al Qaeda (sp?) has a great deal of patience when dealing with their missions... so who knows what they are planning next. :(
samart
05-13-2004, 03:52 PM
Ya know, just found out one of my friends is going to Iraq. I told him, "Be careful and don't let them take you." He quickly replied, "I guarantee that I won't. I will go down firing."
You can bet for damn sure, if your in Iraq, with security or not, you had better carry a firearm and be ready to use it.
I still think about what they did and still hear the cries from the tape before they cut his head off. I hope the Special Forces are turned loose, let them do what they need to do to get these animals. Don't report that you got them, deal with them in your own way.
samart
05-13-2004, 03:54 PM
Ya know Lexi, it had been commented on the net (can't remember what site) that some of the Biological gasses did get out of Iraq to Seria and went under ground to Jordan.
It scares the shit out of me thinking that they could release some serin or VX in one of our cities and there wouldn't be a thing we could do.
I can guarantee that if it does happen, the middle east will probably become a glass parking lot.
^^^ and thats whats the scariest. I am the first to say...they arent stupid. They hijacked eight (?) planes the day they flew into the World Trade Center. Obviously this wasnt a spontaneous act. They know how to plan and attack, which is often why they succeed with their missions.
Scary, SCARY thought, samart.
sander8son
05-13-2004, 07:58 PM
4 planes. 3 successful, one thwarted by passengers.
Rhiannon
05-13-2004, 08:08 PM
4 planes. 3 successful, one thwarted by passengers.
Yes, and one of the 3 successful, had 1 very brave group of men that attempted to stop the hijackers. I still remember one of the men's wife talking about it.
4 planes. 3 successful, one thwarted by passengers.
Thanks for clearing that up!
:)
commando
05-13-2004, 08:57 PM
The major problem with this entire situation is that American's do not uderstand the arab mentality, and they do not understand the American mentality. We want to go over there and give them a free, democratic country, with all the technology and amenities they could want; the problem here is that this is not something that appeals to them. They don't understand the concept, because they have been taught since birth that freedom and democracy are evil concepts, and that Americans are the enemies of Allah.
Problem #2: Arabs cannot be negotiated with or trusted. Call me racist, but until you've been there and dealt with them first hand, don't call me wrong. THE ONLY THING THAT ARABS TRULY UNDERSTAND AND RESPECT IS BRUTAL VIOLENCE. That is the only way to get their attention. It is very unfortunate, but it's something that the Americans and the Europeans don't seem to understand, and so they continue to try to negotiate and placate them. They may pretend to agree with you, to be your ally, but the whole time they are just waiting for the right moment to slip the knife in your back. I think that the only thing that will change this is education, and that takes a long time, so as far as I can see, there is no quick solution, unless you want to exterminate every single one who wants to fight.
(Sorry for this being such a long post)
Melonie
05-15-2004, 05:46 AM
We want to go over there and give them a free, democratic country, with all the technology and amenities they could want; the problem here is that this is not something that appeals to them. They don't understand the concept, because they have been taught since birth that freedom and democracy are evil concepts, and that Americans are the enemies of Allah.
Actually I think that they understand this concept perfectly well. They also know that, if their children were faced with a choice of a free and democratic society versus strict traditional Islamic culture, the traditional Islamic culture would cease to exist ! THIS is one of the underlying reasons they are fighting so hard against us.
Bridgette
05-15-2004, 06:23 AM
This and many other things are why I said when we first declared this 'war on terror' it should be a clean sweep. Bomb the whole damn place, take it as a territory and build our own damn oil wells. I know this is a harsh statement and will likely not sit well with some, but COME ON! How long do we have to sit by while the govt pussyfoots around with this bullshit??? We are already seen as assholes for going over there in the first place, so why the hell not just go all out and be done with it?
I really really really feel bad knowing ANY human could do such a horrible ghastly thing to another human, no matter what the 'reason'. I also really feel for his family and friends, knowing that not only was he killed in such a horrible way without ANY justification, but they made a video and it's circulating for the world (including his loved ones) to see. That is the most disgusting and vile thing I've ever heard of in all my life. Also another reason I say religion is BS. There have always been holy wars and always been brutality in the name of 'god'. Utter garbage.
Anyway, I say carpet bomb the whole damn area and be done with it. Yeah it's harsh. I'm tired of caring.
dj buckwheat
05-15-2004, 07:01 AM
I'm personally waiting on follow up reports to see exactly how uninvolved Mr. Berg was. Being that he lived in Oklahoma City and allowed new Islamic friends to use his laptop to send e-mails to Massoui (sp?)prior to his Iraq trip lead me to be patient to hear and understand more about his involvement. Perhaps he was not randomly singled out. There have been stranger things happen. The methods and the emotion are tragic and sadden me.
Rhiannon
05-15-2004, 07:03 AM
That's my take on it too at this point, B. I'm tired of us losing our people over there, those who are in the service, and those who are not (In the cases of Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg). How many more have to die before the government finally wakes up and sends them back home?
Like I said, I used to have so much sympathy for the people of Iraq, Afganistan, and everywhere else involved, but we can't fix them. It's also not our responsibility to fix them.
The people responsible for Berg's murder (I have trouble even classifying them as people), have said that they intend to continue the killing. In their eyes, anyone other than Muslim should die.
I definitely say bring our people home. Even that won't be a quick process, but the decision needs to be made to get them home. Get them home, and close our borders. Screw the rest of them.
Rhiannon
05-15-2004, 07:09 AM
I'm personally waiting on follow up reports to see exactly how uninvolved Mr. Berg was. Being that he lived in Oklahoma City and allowed new Islamic friends to use his laptop to send e-mails to Massoui (sp?)prior to his Iraq trip lead me to be patient to hear and understand more about his involvement. Perhaps he was not randomly singled out. There have been stranger things happen. The methods and the emotion are tragic and sadden me.
Although I'm curious about the same thing, Dj. I think it's just the government's way of wiggling its way out of the blame, and directing it at the victim himself. Mr Berg's family has spoken out publicly saying that Nick could've been home 2 weeks before his murder. The US had detained him there for questioning. They prevented him from leaving. The email thing has no valid proof at this point, as far as I know. Our government just doesn't want to take the blame for preventing his return to the US, which ultimately signed his death warrant.
You're right though, we do have to wait and see. I hope that I am wrong in my belief that our government played a major role in this.
Diplomat's E-Mails Show Berg in Custody
By JASON STRAZIUSO
Associated Press Writer
May 14, 2004, 12:31 AM EDT
WEST CHESTER, Pa. -- Family members provided e-mails Thursday that say Nicholas Berg was held by the U.S. military before he was kidnapped and beheaded, but the government contends the messages were based on erroneous information.
Berg's family has called on the U.S. government to tell all it knows about its contacts with the 26-year-old businessman in the weeks before his body was found last weekend in Baghdad and a gruesome video that showed his beheading was posted on the Internet.
To back its claims that Berg was in U.S. custody, the family on Thursday gave The Associated Press copies of e-mails from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq.
"I have confirmed that your son, Nick, is being detained by the U.S. military in Mosul. He is safe. He was picked up approximately one week ago. We will try to obtain additional information regarding his detention and a contact person you can communicate with directly," Payne wrote to Berg's father, Michael, on April 1.
Payne repeated that Berg was "being detained by the U.S. military" in an e-mail the same day to Berg's mother, Suzanne. The next day, Payne wrote that she was still trying to find a local contact for the family, but added that "given the security situation in Iraq it is not easy."
U.S. officials say Berg was detained by Iraqi police March 24 and was never in the custody of American forces. Berg is believed to have been kidnapped days after Iraqi police or coalition forces released him April 6.
The government says the e-mail from Payne was false. State Department spokeswoman Kelly Shannon said Payne's information came from the Coalition Provisional Authority. The authority did not tell Payne until April 7 that Berg had been held by Iraqi police and not the U.S. military, she said.
"As Mr. Berg had been released, the consular officer did not convey this information to the family because he was released, thankfully," Shannon said. "And we thought he was on his way."
Berg's brother called on the government to come clean about its contacts with the slain American before he died. The family has blamed the government for keeping him in custody for too long while anti-American violence escalated in Iraq.
"They're trying to deflect attention to a couple weeks down the road when no one's paying attention," David Berg said. "I think President Bush needs to be a man about this and tell the truth. I think most, if not all, Americans can figure out who's telling the truth and who's lying."
Meanwhile, the family said Berg had been questioned by the FBI more than a year ago about a contact he had with a terrorism suspect in 1999, while he was a student at the University of Oklahoma in Norman.
A senior law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity said the terror suspect appears to have been acquainted with Zacarias Moussaoui, an al-Qaida adherent now in federal custody and awaiting trial on conspiracy charges stemming from the Sept. 11 attacks.
The official said an e-mail address traced to Berg had been used by the unidentified individual with purported terror connections, but a 2002 investigation showed Berg had never met the individual and had not given the e-mail address to that person.
Michael Berg told reporters Thursday that his son was cleared of any wrongdoing. He said Nicholas Berg met the suspect while riding the bus to classes, and had allowed the suspect to use his computer.
A private memorial for Berg was scheduled for Friday at a West Chester synagogue. Family members declined to discuss burial arrangements.
The Bergs said they want to know if the government had received an offer to trade Iraqi prisoners for Nicholas Berg. On the videotape of his death, Berg's killers made a reference to a trade offer, but U.S. officials have said they knew of no such offer.
Michael Berg said he wanted to hear President Bush address the issue.
"I would like to ask him if it is true that al-Qaida offered to trade my son's life for the life of another person," Michael Berg said. "And if that is true, well, I need that information. ... and I think the people of the United States of America need to know what the fate of their sons and daughters might be in the hands of the Bush administration."
Bridgette
05-15-2004, 07:11 AM
I definitely say bring our people home. ....and close our borders. Screw the rest of them.
Yep. :thumbsup:
Theresa
05-15-2004, 07:40 AM
Did anybody hear about the two asshole DJs who played this poor guy's screams on the radio and then JOKED about it? WTF? I am completely disgusted by these two monsters. What is wrong with some people?! >:(
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/05/14/djs.fired.ap/index.html
bloodydewdrop
05-15-2004, 07:55 AM
I have a hard time accepting that a "clean sweep" of the offending areas is the best solution to the problem. Doing such a thing would kill countless innocent civilians, and would, I believe, create such an uproar in the Middle East that would make the present conflict seem miniscule. Other Arab countries would certainly not take kindly to their neighbors being bombed into oblivion (or even minor, seemingly unjustified attacks), and this would spur more terrorist resentment,etc. America would become a pariah in the world for taking bold quick action in a global society.
I wish we could leave Iraq now.....but that might also lead to problems in the future. After the US abandoned Afghanistan during their war with the Soviet Union, they were not left with enough resources to hold off the Taliban. America went into Iraq and destroyed its government. While I do think having Hussein out of power is a great relief to the Iraqi people, the situation is too unstable to leave right now.
But our people should come home. I know I probably contradicted myself with that statement, and I may be speaking under a blanket of idealism. I think many of the problems began at the outset of this war; the motivations for going, how it was planned, and the people running the show were overconfident and unprepared. Perhaps an investment in our Intelligence would have helped. Who knows. I don't. I don't even know what to believe: the media cannot be relied on more than half the time :confused:
Those extremists do not represent the whole of the people. America is definately justified and duty-bound to protect itself after 9-11, and my silly little self hopes there's a way to do that without innocent people dying (or at least keeping it to a minimum, and only when absolutely neccessary). So far our army has been careful with that, which is commendable.
There's a trend which everyone is aware of; rash action begets more hot tempered violence. If we are not careful, this whole Middle East situation will keep biting us in the ass.
I remember someone on this board commenting on finding alternative energy sources so we wouldn't rely on oil. Amen to that! Somehow I don't believe this will happen with our current president and his oil interests.
Ok, enough ranting :).
Bridgette
05-15-2004, 07:57 AM
I'd say it was a publicity stunt that obviously worked. Wonder where they'll turn up DJing next...? Off with their heads! :mad: :beat: :gnasher:
Bridgette
05-15-2004, 08:09 AM
Bloody: I was talking about the WHOLE middle east, not just part. I know very well a "clean sweep" of part would cause more problems with the rest. And I know it's a super extreme idea, but I can't help feeling it anyway. Get rid of the middle east and it will no longer be a problem. I know if we did that the way others see us would be bad, but ya know what? LOTS of others ALREADY see us in a negative light, and as I said before, we are already seen as assholes for going over there in the first place. So if you're gonna look like an asshole, might as well take care of the problem altogether instead of doing it half-assed and still looking like an asshole, PLUS leaving the MAJOR potential for being bitten in the ass again. Get rid of it and it can't bite you in the ass anymore. Yeah it's a damn harsh notion, but like I said I'm tired of caring.
bloodydewdrop
05-15-2004, 09:06 AM
Bridgette, it does seem harsh to me, but I do understand the point of view due to all the suffering (on everyone's part) that's going on. I guess I can't resign myself to feeling like that at the moment. I'm sure if I knew someone who'd died I might feel differently.
Everything sucks, no matter what happens. Bleh.
Richard_Head
05-15-2004, 09:39 AM
I definitely say bring our people home. Even that won't be a quick process, but the decision needs to be made to get them home. Get them home, and close our borders. Screw the rest of them.
I was against the war from the beginning, I think the millitary did a horrendous job of planning it, and I hate seeing our soldiers returning in body bags for the interests of a select few here who will be profiting from their blood, but I'm sorry IMHO we can't just leave now, that is the absolute worst thing we could do, it would leave Iraq in turmoil, it would leave the whole middle east in turmoil, the terrorists will spin it as a victory for allah and islam and will no doubt sign up new recruits by the boat load, and worst of all they will know that we don't have the stomach for violence and will use to their advantage going forward which will lead to even more problems. We cannot cower to the bastards.
Anyway, I say carpet bomb the whole damn area and be done with it. Yeah it's harsh. I'm tired of caring.
Given what I said above, I still don't think killing millions of innocent people is the answer here either. I wish there was an easy answer, unfortunately there just isn't.
Bridgette
05-15-2004, 09:56 AM
Who says they're innocent? You said yourself the extremists among them would be signing up recruits by the boatload if we pull out now. IMO it's already happening and the majority who don't 'sign up' with the terrorists agree with them or at least don't care. I firmly believe that VERY few are sympathetic to our position. I have been around alot of middle easterners and believe me when I say, from what I've seen, most HATE americans or at least don't give a rat's ass if we're exterminated and would applaud it for the simple fact they are annoyed at our position in the world.
Bridgette
05-15-2004, 10:14 AM
Over the past 24 hours, I have heard various pundits all over the spectrum, from the revenge seekers calling for the US to “nuke the <expletive deleted>” to apologists claiming that the group that carried out the beheading was a rogue group, and the incident is an aberration, since “Islam is a religion of peace”.
I checked the Arabic forums to try and try and gauge the reaction to Zarqawi’s actions. There was one posting from a jihadi who had mixed feelings about the killing, and asking for validation that it was in fact in accordance with Islamic law. It was quickly answered with a flurry of postings citing fatwas and sunnah validating the act as being something not just allowed under Islam, but demanded by Allah.
The other postings were even worse. Here is a short list of some of the comments:
Abu Mus'ab Alzrqawy carries out his work in a wonderful way
Allah is the greatest, Nik Berg, the American citizen, who cut his head in Iraq, is a Jew
These will please your eyes with these pictures of the neck of the apostate being cut
A glory that shook the tyrant’s thrones by what our hands did!!
If someone wants to kill you, do you sit around and let them do it, or do you fight, and kill them first if you have to?
SCGirl
05-15-2004, 09:28 PM
I just have one question.....
If I give AQ or the Iraqi's or some other terrorist organization directions to my ex-bf's house, will I be arrested for treason?
:mad: :thinking:
They were fired, and rightfully so. People like that make things like WAR seem as if it is "funny" or "ok". Glad to hear that they were fired for being such insensitive assholes.
Melonie
05-16-2004, 05:20 AM
I definitely say bring our people home. Even that won't be a quick process, but the decision needs to be made to get them home. Get them home, and close our borders. Screw the rest of them.
Personally, I happen to agree with this approach in the short term - although it will likely result in conditions worsening in the rest of the world to the point where we'll be drawn into World War 3 eventually.
But closing our borders and restricting foreign trade will have an immediate price tag in exchange for added security here in the US. It will mean gasoline shortages/rationing again. It will mean abandoning many of our environmental policies in the short term, drilling for oil in ANWR, construction of pipelines, burning lots of coal. Above all it will mean construction of many new nuclear power plants, which is the ONLY proven technology which is cost effective and does not rely on fossil fuels and does not spew NOX and CO2 and particulates. Without these short term changes, the economy of many areas of the USA (notably California, the midwest, and the northeast) will come to an abrupt halt as commuters will not be able to obtain enough gasoline/fuel oil/electricity to continue driving to work, heating their homes, or keeping the wheels of industry turning. Prices of food or anything else requiring large amounts of energy to produce will skyrocket.
While IMHO these changes would be very good for America in the long term, I doubt that the short term pain involved would be willingly accepted by the majority of registered voters. However, the majority of registered voters haven't figured out that one major objective of the war in the middle east is to prevent their family finances from dropping to poverty level due to vastly increased energy costs. But at some point, the facts will come out that we can't have it both ways.
Kaiyla
05-16-2004, 04:12 PM
My question is; How do you win a war against people who have no regard for human life?
Katrine
05-16-2004, 09:31 PM
Make the Middle East a glass bottom parking lot.....
Get the oil from Siberia, Canada, and Venezuela....
I work with many, many Middle Eastern people, and I see a variety of personalities. I have been becoming impatient and cross having to deal with some of them and I think its because of the war and what is happening, and the media, and social pressure anti-Arab sentiment around. I hate this, but I cannot deny it, and don't have any solutions other than the extreme ones already mentioned.
polecat
05-17-2004, 06:58 AM
I know if we did that the way others see us would be bad, but ya know what? LOTS of others ALREADY see us in a negative light, and as I said before, we are already seen as assholes for going over there in the first place.
This is really the truth of the matter. While the Euro nations and Arab world already call us "cold blooded, Godless killers" every single day, wiping the whole damn area out would make us actually earn the bullshit they've been slinging for years.
And that's what really pisses me off the most about the hypocrisy- sending in ground troops for man-to-man fighting with heavy US casualties and using surgical precision air strikes still earns the US a bad reputation abroad. If there is to be no recognition for this approach, then for crying out loud send a squadron of Apache's in and dish the kinds of justice we're already taking credit for.
One thing about the USA; we've got technology for killing people down to a science. We can roll tanks across the dunes at 75mph, and scramble helicopter and fighter jets out and blow shit up from 25-50 miles away without spilling the commander's coffee in the field.. or just send the cruise missiles in from the Gulf and watch the play-by-play from Satellite. It's absolutely deplorable that the choice of taking civilian casualties into consideration at the obvious cost of American lives receives no attention or mention, but instead the exact opposite.
Melonie
05-17-2004, 03:32 PM
My question is; How do you win a war against people who have no regard for human life?
If history is any teacher, there are two examples to choose from. In the case of the Japanese government in the 30's and 40's, we drafted every able bodied man in the US into the military, we fielded a 500,000 man army in Asia, and we nuked 'em - TWICE ! In the case of the Soviet Union, we bankrupted the government via an arms race to the point where their own people revolted. However, since the middle east is full of oil and since Osama already has billions socked away, plan #2 probably wouldn't work. I guess that leaves plan #1 !
Djoser
05-17-2004, 05:05 PM
Civillians are regarded by the whole civilized world as being off limits as a potential military target. Sure, a few deaths are unavoidable, but going out of one's way to kill civillians is called a "Crime against humanity."
Yes, it is, and I want those five f**kers dead. But letting that video incite us to turn the Middle East into a glassy plain is not the answer.
These pigs who savagely killed Berg represent the worst the Arab world has to offer, and they are not alone, but if the USA tries to take its vengeance on the Middle East as a whole, we are giving those 5 militants exactly what they want.
These guys are swine, and so are those who back them, but the ability to cruelly slaughter innocent people is not just an Arab trait. We are of course infinitely superior as a nation to al Queada. But, sorry, "Crimes against humanity" do exist in our past, much as it seems to be a heinous transgression to bring it up--to the tune of several hundred thousand incinerated in WWII fire bombings. Let's not start again now because of this horrible video.
There were films made of Japanese and Nazis torturing and killing their prisoners, some of them Americans. Fortunately for us all, these were never released, or we might have slaughtered millions of civilians instead of damned close to a million as it was. Yes, the Japanese brought it on themselves, but if we had followed our baser instincts to a greater extent, we wouldn't be driving Hondas or watching Sony TV today--there would be no Japan.
We should not let this monstrous criminal act do what it is intended to--incite a bloodbath and drive those on both sides into a murderous frenzy.
If those two rednecks had made a video when they dragged the black guy to death behind their pick-up truck in Texas, there would no doubt be a great deal more violence against whites in this country, leading to more against blacks. And on it goes...
"Fuck it, kill 'em all!" is the natural human reaction, but it is not the best one.
Bridgette
05-17-2004, 06:43 PM
Whatever. It's the only one that REALLY works. To quote Metallica: Kill em all!