View Full Version : The Perfect Club
Bridgette
05-25-2004, 12:36 PM
I generally enjoy comments from dancers/non-dancers and male/female posters, but it really irks me when dancers post here to get help from other dancers on a theoretically supportive environment such a s StripperWeb and some dude comes in here $hitting all over the place.
Yeah I agree. And I reckon I should apologize for encouraging him. Just couldn't help pointing out some of the massive amounts of $hit he's throwing here.
BigGreen, or should I say Captain Know It All? Most people of average intelligence can figure out how to use the quote feature properly. See if you can.
Katrine
05-25-2004, 01:34 PM
When did this shitstorm begin?
Were some posts removed? I really can't follow the debate for some reason, at least not any of BigGreens posts. Oh well, guess I'm just a stupid stripper ;)
Anywho...what's wrong with a fun and lively theoretical debate about our idealized stripclub? Sure it will probably never come to fruition, but don't we all dream about having a career we love....
Part of enjoying your occupation is the environment you work in, not just the money. As attrative, sexually open females, if all we wanted to do was maximimize profits, we could easily be escorts. There is obviously more to our choices, and that includes the ability to go to work everyday with a positive attitude, and to walk out feeling satisfied for a job well done.....
Let's keep it coming, I will post my thoughts after I eat my yummy chicken and asparagus.....
Bridgette
05-25-2004, 04:33 PM
.....the owner of the CHAIN of clubs I work for across the country.Its working for him
Only bad thing is,he sends me as the dj to open them.I wonder why???
They only keep me around because i have a large,god like penis.
:detective: And there we have it! :biggrin:
BigGreenMnM
05-25-2004, 05:21 PM
Break from topic. :stop:
Big green, I'd like to read your Mahabharata length posts to help determine what you're trying to say, but I can't due to your trouble with using the quote feature.
I know its not the most user friendly thing in the world, but you've been putting your own words in quote boxes and leaving Bridgette's outside of them. Maybe you could slice your arguments up into multiple posts? Just a suggestion.
Okay. Resume flame war. :hot: :duck:
Doc I love you!
I was looking forward to going over this post when I saw how much attention it had gotten, BUT
as usual a dancer has asked a question of other dancers and some dude has gotten in the midst of it and now it's all "peons","spoiled brats etc" I generally enjoy comments from dancers/non-dancers and male/female posters, but it really irks me when dancers post here to get help from other dancers on a theoretically supportive environment such a s StripperWeb and some dude comes in here $hitting all over the place.
some dude????
lolololololo
Im in the business sweety,prob alot longer then you and at alot more locations around the world,I even know the secret handshake!
The problem was when the queen B got her toes stepped on by someone who doesnt give a chit about who she thinks she is to this forum.She was talking about things that dont work in the real world,I called her on it.She got upset,and the flaming began.Now it looks like her peons are comming out of the woodwork to flame me(not to correct the wrtong things she said,but to flame me)
forgive the fact that i dont know how to use the quote button and try to read it,if you really think you know anything about this industry on a level other then hole in the wall strip clubs,you will see the dribble she is spouting.(you might even see the line and hook i used to reel her in)
If your going to just "follow"in life,try to follow someone who knows what she is talking about.You might not look so bad.
polecat
05-25-2004, 06:22 PM
First off,most atm's are owned by the club,they charge 5-7 dollars per withdrawl.
Yes, simple disconnect here since the discussion was for why clubs should have ATM's and allow for larger withdrawal limits.
My point was, worst case scenario is there are tons of 3rd party merchants that will pay a club to have their ATM inside.. or even better if the club wishes to purchase one themselves. Every club should have an ATM as cashed base business has lesser overhead for collection and still can be profitted on in one way or another.
If you were speaking of the withdrawal amounts, surcharge on every $20 is a better way to get around forcing the customer to PIN/withdrawal three-four times to get around a per-withdrawal limit. Plenty these days have that sort of surcharge.
your kidding right???/ Please tell me your kidding right???
First off,I said entertainers,not dancers or strippers.Entertainers dont do that.(ok thats a lie,but gimmie some love for the bennifit of doubt)
We're speaking specifically strippers here.. not entertainers. In the scenario of entertainers, sure- it makes sense the more eye candy, the bigger the draw for a crowd.
Men go where the females are.the more females,the more men.Thats fact with our industry,TGIFridays,and any other "clubs".
Why do you think they have ladies nights???These are men we are talking about,we aint the brightest candle on the cake.We go where there is the most females.
In the specific real of a stripclub, men (or at least the kinds of men that actually spend money) do NOT enjoy being harassed or hassled and will simply find another club.
When the dancer count is increased in order to adjust bottom lines for reduced traffic, this effect always accelerates the reduction in traffic. It's illustrated daily here in the city, but again quite specifically for stripclubs which operate on sales (dance sales, vip sales, private sales, etc.etc.).
Put two clubs side by side.
fill one with 10 girls.all perfect 8-10"s
in the other,put 50 females,all 6-8'.
wanna bet what club would win???
It would be a sucker bet.. it's again proven nightly here in the city. The club with 35-40 women that are hungry to make stagefees are sitting around picking their nails waiting for all the traffic they scared off in the past to chance a return.. while the other clubs with 15-25 dancers are standing-room only.
Even if you add in the bad door guy or valet.
Give me charles manson on the door,
Jeff Dahmer parking cars,
warm beer from china,
and an old run down building with plain white walls.
you add 30 entertainers and a good dj,we will make money and alot of it,because we will be packed.
Spoken truly from a reality-detached individual's perspective, but I do like to hear this. Should anything that resembles competition ever open nearby, you can watch that crowd dissapate into thin air and start seeing tumbleweeds roll through your club.
The only possible time a "we couldnt give a shit about the customer's experience" mindset is met without bankruptcy is when there is no nearby competition. In those cases, you provide a mediocre at best experience where patrons have no choice. Add choice and effectively see the error in your ways.
I still like to hear this though since it means there are more locales where a shitload of money can easily be made by offerring even the slightest bit of quality to the experience. That kind of attitutude doesnt fly in areas of competition though.
Lastly, on your quote question.. just use the QUOTE tags (QUOTE and /QUOTE) in brackets around parts you are replying too. I've attached an image since if I try to illustrate in text, it'll just do the quote operation lol.
Lilith
05-25-2004, 07:39 PM
I started with full intentions of replying to all relevant posts, but the War and Peace style of posting leaves much to be desired. Anyway, my eyes glaze over when confronted with more than one paragraph of illegible typing. A post first requiring translation into something more intelligent-sounding doesn't bode well for the content.
I've had a week or so without a day off, which gave me time to think if not post, and I've come up with a few suggestions of my own. Some may be redundant by now, but affirmation is always nice.
Dancer caps, amen. Every club has a limit, beyond which the customers get annoyed and everyone suffers a drop in earnings. If the club's limit is ten, then so be it. Some clubs can support 25, or 40, or even 200 but, by god, keep the number of dancers on shift to no more than that amount.
Cameras and locker searches. The only people I have ever seen throw fits about either are those who stood to get into trouble (legal or with the management) when their actions or possessions were examined closely. I don't care to work with crack whores, nor do I care to be subject to increased police attention that crack whores bring. I would love irrefutable evidence to back up a legal scenario of Me versus Johnny Law. Several cameras and one bouncer watching them on a circuit monitor are far more discreet than seven roving bouncers, and I've noticed that customers are oddly fond of discretion. Win-win-win situation, unless one happens to be assuming that the dancer position is equal to that of a bargain whore.
Incentives programs, yes! Free house fees to the top seller of the week (heck, or even half-priced fees on the spendier weekend house fees), a kick-back or ceiling on house cuts on dances after a reachable-yet-impressive number. Better yet, how about some respect? The best incentive of all wopuld be to be accorded the exact amount of respect one has earned. Socking as it may seem to some members of management, not all dancers are created equal. It shouldn't be too difficult to differentiate from the dancers who show up stoned and an hour late, proceed to get pissing-themselves drunk, offend a customer, vomit in the bathroom and then leave an hour early from those who actually behave with some decorum. To treat the two dancers as if they have equal worth (ie; none) is an insult to the professional.
Some wild brainstorms open to reasonable dissection:
Two bars located in opposite sides of the building, or one long bar with at least two bartenders.
Offer package prices. Door charge plus five drinks plus two dances, for example, either at cost or at a reduced markup. This would cost about $100 in my club; let's say they charge $80 and call it the Warm-Up. As any dancer knows, part of the trick is to get that wallet cracked open. Once it's open and the customer starts feeling the party atmosphere, a dancer worth her salt can figure out how to extend the party (and the income). This could give the customer a nice sampling for reasonable expenditure, and still leave him with money to spend on more.
Two-drink minimum or the purchase of a dance ticket required, ticket to cost the same as a private dance and including a free drink. Lap dances are usually the last purchase made by customers, so I doubt this would result in customers getting the dance, drinking the drink and leaving. No, they still have more partying to do. It also ensures at least one more dance on the books and customer incentives are a time-tested business method which should never be ignored. Free drink only with the first ticket purchase, however.
BigGreenMnM
05-25-2004, 08:06 PM
[
First off,most atm's are owned by the club,they charge 5-7 dollars per withdrawl.
Yes, simple disconnect here since the discussion was for why clubs should have ATM's and allow for larger withdrawal limits.]
The point was,strip clubs should have limit withdrawls,as do the casiono's.They use these limits in court if they get sued.It shows they dont feed into the gambling addiction,just as a big club doesnt feed into any sort of sexual addiction.Its all stuff for the lawyers.
do you see the point I was trying to make?
[My point was, worst case scenario is there are tons of 3rd party merchants that will pay a club to have their ATM inside.. or even better if the club wishes to purchase one themselves. Every club should have an ATM as cashed base business has lesser overhead for collection and still can be profitted on in one way or another. ]
I agree,you just said it better.
[If you were speaking of the withdrawal amounts, surcharge on every $20 is a better way to get around forcing the customer to PIN/withdrawal three-four times to get around a per-withdrawal limit. Plenty these days have that sort of surcharge.]
I agree again,some clubs do this also.Its a great way to do it.But as you know,owners can make more by the 20 then by the 100.
[
your kidding right???/ Please tell me your kidding right???
First off,I said entertainers,not dancers or strippers.Entertainers dont do that.(ok thats a lie,but gimmie some love for the bennifit of doubt)
We're speaking specifically strippers here.. not entertainers. In the scenario of entertainers, sure- it makes sense the more eye candy, the bigger the draw for a crowd]
we agree again,and again you said it better then i did,are you sure your not a dj??
[
Men go where the females are.the more females,the more men.Thats fact with our industry,TGIFridays,and any other "clubs".
Why do you think they have ladies nights???These are men we are talking about,we aint the brightest candle on the cake.We go where there is the most females.
In the specific real of a stripclub, men (or at least the kinds of men that actually spend money) do NOT enjoy being harassed or hassled and will simply find another club.
When the dancer count is increased in order to adjust bottom lines for reduced traffic, this effect always accelerates the reduction in traffic. It's illustrated daily here in the city, but again quite specifically for stripclubs which operate on sales (dance sales, vip sales, private sales, etc.etc.).]
I didnt say anything about the girls annoying customers.Im speaking of basic club law,Men go where there are the most females.
as for annoying customers,thats on the mgrs shoulders.Its his job to make sure that crap doesnt happen.
[
Put two clubs side by side.
fill one with 10 girls.all perfect 8-10"s
in the other,put 50 females,all 6-8'.
wanna bet what club would win???
It would be a sucker bet.. it's again proven nightly here in the city. The club with 35-40 women that are hungry to make stagefees are sitting around picking their nails waiting for all the traffic they scared off in the past to chance a return.. while the other clubs with 15-25 dancers are standing-room only.]
im sorry,i dont buy it,im guessing there is more to the story then what you are telling.
35-40 entertainers dont sit in an empty club while business is going on across town.They would all leave and go work at the small clubs.
[
Even if you add in the bad door guy or valet.
Give me charles manson on the door,
Jeff Dahmer parking cars,
warm beer from china,
and an old run down building with plain white walls.
you add 30 entertainers and a good dj,we will make money and alot of it,because we will be packed.
Spoken truly from a reality-detached individual's perspective, but I do like to hear this. Should anything that resembles competition ever open nearby, you can watch that crowd dissapate into thin air and start seeing tumbleweeds roll through your club.]
ok your right,this was a stretch.
[The only possible time a "we couldnt give a shit about the customer's experience" mindset is met without bankruptcy is when there is no nearby competition. In those cases, you provide a mediocre at best experience where patrons have no choice. Add choice and effectively see the error in your ways.
I still like to hear this though since it means there are more locales where a shitload of money can easily be made by offerring even the slightest bit of quality to the experience. That kind of attitutude doesnt fly in areas of competition though.]
again your right.
[Lastly, on your quote question.. just use the QUOTE tags (QUOTE and /QUOTE) in brackets around parts you are replying too. I've attached an image since if I try to illustrate in text, it'll just do the quote operation lol.]
again your 100% right.Belive it or not,I bank on the same principles as you describe.
wow.thanks!
A response that isnt flamming.
and thanks for the heads up on the rules of these reindeer games about the quotes.Im going to give it a test run in a sec!
BigGreenMnM
05-25-2004, 08:10 PM
Oh chit!!!!!!
I broke the forum!!!!!!!
how did that happen???Its all freaked out????
I did the [] thingys???
In my perfect club the mngr has contracted with a dance instructor, group health insurance plan, and spa for group discounts...... Collectively we spend sooooo much on many of these services, I think it only makes sense to use our $$ power for discounts. Just last week the darn nail salon gor me for $80 bucks!!!! I'm ready to learn to do my own at this point!
Hey you guys I just figured out how to use the ignore feature!
BigGreenMnM
05-26-2004, 05:53 AM
Hey you guys I just figured out how to use the ignore feature!
Hey you guys,I just figured out how to use the quote feature!!!
VenusGoddess
05-26-2004, 06:56 AM
Ok...I will chime in...heehee
First of all...I have mixed feelings about the whole ATM thing. On the one hand, I would love it if the guys withdrew cash and saved me the 25% processing fee it takes to turn the money into cash at the end of the night. However, credit cards have no "per day" cap. Most banks automatically make all debit cards have a withdrawl limit (usually at $500 per day if not less). That means if Jimmy went to dinner and used his debit card to pay for the $100 meal and bar tab for him and his buddy...he's only got $400 left to withdraw. Less if he took money out earlier to pay for cabs, or gas, or anything else. So, the idea that someone can buy funny money, in this case, is good since they will be able to spend more money. From the customers stand-point, it is run as a charge and not as a cash advance, so they pay the lesser APR.
I do not see how having a "house reduction" for the top "sellers" would create a more amiable environment. Simply because there are going to be the 1 or 2 girls who get this time and time again. Every club has it's top girl(s)...I think it would make for even MORE competition and harder hustles. In the end, I think it would create more friction than was intended. The best way to have girls want to dance is to create an environment where drugs are zero tolerance...no taking it in the club or before you come to work. Where the management treats the girls with respect and yet holds them accountable for their actions. Where the rules that are in place are enforced and are the same for everyone. If you are a top dancer and you break a rule, then you get the same treatment that a newbie doing the same thing would get (if not worse, since the vet should know better).
I like the club that I am at. They let me come and go as I please. I don't have a schedule and all I need to do is let them know if I am going to be on vacation (so they know that I did not quit). The managers at my club are really great guys and I get along well with all of them. They are understanding and treat the girls with respect. The only problem I have with the club is the funny money exchange rate (I think that I am getting gouged). At the same time, I make more money at my club than most of my friends make at their clubs, and that is after I change in my funny money.
I have worked at clubs where the rules were so vague, it was pathetic. I have worked at clubs where the club takes 50% of every single thing you do...and the club holds onto the money for dances and private booths and PAYS THE DANCER at the end of the night. The club decided how much tip-out you would give and then took it out of your money before they even handed it over to you. Then you had to tip-out the DJ on top of that (and he was greedy..wanted at least $30-$40 per night). To me, that is not acceptable. I am more motivated to move more when I see the money piling up in my garter.
Anywho...I also do not see how a DJ, who is up in a booth, can understand FULLY how the dancers feel. You may see the action from a different viewpoint, but you are by no means, "in the trenches". You do not deal with the customers on a one-to-one basis. Give your ideas/facts from your corner and that's fine. This thread was started to give the DANCERS a place to air what they would LIKE TO SEE in a club. It wasn't all taken for fact...just dreams. Sometimes, though, making a change for what the dancer wants to see can work. Sure, you follow a guy who has chains around the country. It doesn't mean that what he is doing is the MOST profitable for everyone. It's, so far, the most profitable for his club. It can be different for someone else's club. And, BTW...if you are working for a club chain that is gouging it's dancers with house fees...it will come back to bite the club in the ass. Simply because no one likes to feel like they are being taken advantage of. House fees of $300 per night are insane. So what if I make $1000? By the time I pay my house fee, I have $700, $20 to the DJ, $20 to the house mom, and then another 20% tip-out for the floor guys. Let's say that I turn in another $300 in funny money (25% of that gets skimmed off). I come home with about $450. And, then that is before taxes, of course. In your eyes, that might be acceptable. In my eyes, it's not. Simply because I AM the one who worked my ass off for that money. With gouging fees, you can see WHY dancers begin to "do more" at the club. They are trying to make up for what they are giving away. After a while, the girls will find a club that they can come home with more money, and then all you have left are the girls who are "just there". The club will start to go down and the girls will become more and more miserable and then that'll be the end of it.
erotictonic
05-26-2004, 07:16 AM
BigGreen,
When you quote someone, make sure that your words lay outside the last words of the quote.... that is the key. You have to scroll down because the word "quote" is a couple of lines under the quote, and type under that. Otherwise, if you type within that area, your words will also be in quote.
BigGreenMnM
05-26-2004, 07:45 AM
Where the management treats the girls with respect and yet holds them accountable for their actions. Where the rules that are in place are enforced and are the same for everyone. If you are a top dancer and you break a rule, then you get the same treatment that a newbie doing the same thing would get (if not worse, since the vet should know better).
I like the club that I am at. They let me come and go as I please.
I agree 100%.Now i gotta ask a question,do ALL the girls at this club you work at do the same thing with come and go as you please??Are you getting special treatment???
Anywho...I also do not see how a DJ, who is up in a booth, can understand FULLY how the dancers feel. You may see the action from a different viewpoint, but you are by no means, "in the trenches". You do not deal with the customers on a one-to-one basis.
My opinions are formed from years as a dancer,manager,and dj.
Where you may deal with the customers on a one on one basis,so does the DJ.He also deals with the customers as a whole all night long.DJ's read the crowd all night long to determine what to do next.Im sorry you dont see that,or dont see that with your current DJ.
Its just my opinion,but NOBODY at the club can make YOU more money then the dj.
House fees of $300 per night are insane.
lol i agree!
there are some clubs that charge this crazy amount(not ours!),but its because the entertainers are making thousands a night.If there wasnt someone paying it,it would have gone down right??Entertainers WILL pay this money if the money at the end of the night warrents it.
Simply because I AM the one who worked my ass off for that money.
Without a doubt,your the star,your the quarterback,your the southpaw pitcher,but you aint got chit without your support staff.
Without the DJ,door guys,bartenders,etc,you wouldnt make any money at all because there would be no club.
If the entertainers make no money,neither does the support staff.If the entertainer does make money,so should her support staff.
Ever have a waitress send a customer your way for a lapdance???She doesnt deserve half,but she sure as shit deserves a tip from you.
BigGreenMnM
05-26-2004, 07:48 AM
dam,ok i still dont got it figured out yet.
Lilith
05-26-2004, 07:52 AM
You need to erase the last (quote) and insert it again manually at the end of the part you want to quote, else the entire post will appear in the quote box.
Lilith
05-26-2004, 08:01 AM
I agree 100%.Now i gotta ask a question,do ALL the girls at this club you work at do the same thing with come and go as you please??Are you getting special treatment???
She is referring to special treatment as far as rule breaking. You are referring to preferential treatment offered to either all the dancers or to those who have proven their trustworthiness. It is one thing to have drunkenness excused, it is another entirely to be on time for every shift for a year or more and to be given leeway on scheduling because management knows you'll appear for your shifts regardless.
Without a doubt,your the star,your the quarterback,your the southpaw pitcher,but you aint got chit without your support staff.
Without the DJ,door guys,bartenders,etc,you wouldnt make any money at all because there would be no club.
If the entertainers make no money,neither does the support staff.If the entertainer does make money,so should her support staff.
Ever have a waitress send a customer your way for a lapdance???She doesnt deserve half,but she sure as shit deserves a tip from you.
Again, you are taking this out of context. She is not maintaining a refusal to properly take care of her support staff, she is indicating the inherent unfairness of taking home a net sum of less than 32% of the money she worked hard to earn.
BigGreenMnM
05-26-2004, 08:27 AM
She is referring to special treatment as far as rule breaking. You are referring to preferential treatment offered to either all the dancers or to those who have proven their trustworthiness. It is one thing to have drunkenness excused, it is another entirely to be on time for every shift for a year or more and to be given leeway on scheduling because management knows you'll appear for your shifts regardless.
The scheduling isnt a rule in the club where you work???
Every club i have ever worked in but 1 has rules for the schedule.Alot have missed shift rules,late fee's,jump on fee's.
My point is if she isnt bound by the same rules as the other dancers with the schedule,there is a reason,and its not because she is nice.My guess is she is friggin hot and makes alot of money,hence,the special treatment.
Again, you are taking this out of context. She is not maintaining a refusal to properly take care of her support staff, she is indicating the inherent unfairness of taking home a net sum of less than 32% of the money she worked hard to earn.
Im not sure if 30% is good or bad.It would depend on the night and on the entertainer.It sounds high to me.
But if as you said,she properly took care of her support staff and it came up to 35% of what she made,should she then not tip out??
Lilith
05-26-2004, 08:37 AM
No, no, no. Like this:
(quote=BigGreenMnM link=board=27;threadid=9441;start=msg114091#msg114 091 date=1085585232)
(quote)
She is referring to special treatment as far as rule breaking. You are referring to preferential treatment offered to either all the dancers or to those who have proven their trustworthiness. It is one thing to have drunkenness excused, it is another entirely to be on time for every shift for a year or more and to be given leeway on scheduling because management knows you'll appear for your shifts regardless.(quote)
The scheduling isnt a rule in the club where you work???
Every club i have ever worked in but 1 has rules for the schedule.Alot have missed shift rules,late fee's,jump on fee's.
My point is if she isnt bound by the same rules as the other dancers with the schedule,there is a reason,and its not because she is nice.My guess is she is friggin hot and makes alot of money,hence,the special treatment.
(quote)
Again, you are taking this out of context. She is not maintaining a refusal to properly take care of her support staff, she is indicating the inherent unfairness of taking home a net sum of less than 32% of the money she worked hard to earn.(quote)
Im not sure if 30% is good or bad.It would depend on the night and on the entertainer.It sounds high to me.
But if as you said,she properly took care of her support staff and it came up to 35% of what she made,should she then not tip out??
(/quote)(/quote)(/quote)(/quote)
(/quote)
First off, after you have selected what part of another post you want to quote, you isolate it and then signal an end quote. Like this, (/quote), and replace the parenthesis with brackets []. Then type (quote) again if you want to quote something else seperately, but also end quote that after the selected quote. The quoted text should be begun with a (quote) and finished with a (/quote) before you follow with your own text. Then scroll to the bottom of the reply and erase any quote boxes left. It should then look like this:
(quote)
BigGreen says this and this and this.(/quote)
And Lilith follows with this.
(quote)
And BigGreen said something else.(/quote)
Which Lilith addresses seperately.
Katrine
05-26-2004, 08:52 AM
Thank you Lilith...but I have a feeling it still isnt going to hit the proverbial nail on head!
Lilith
05-26-2004, 09:16 AM
The scheduling isnt a rule in the club where you work???
Every club i have ever worked in but 1 has rules for the schedule.Alot have missed shift rules,late fee's,jump on fee's.
My point is if she isnt bound by the same rules as the other dancers with the schedule,there is a reason,and its not because she is nice.My guess is she is friggin hot and makes alot of money,hence,the special treatment.
Every club I've worked in has rules for the schedule. However, each club also had dancers who were excepted from some or all of those rules, and not because they were "friggin' hot". At my primary club, one of our girls (Velvet of StripperWeb, in fact) doesn't bother with a schedule and hasn't for a long time. It isn't because she is "friggin' hot", it's because she has worked there long and hard for three dedicated years (or five, Velvet will forgive me if I forget which). She is always there on the same days, at the same time, and management knows she will continue to do so without the behest of being summoned by a schedule. We have plenty of "friggin' hot" dancers at this club, but reliable dancers are at a premium.
I also work at another club where I am not on the schedule at all. I show up when I show up, and they are pleased to have me there. It's not because I'm "friggin' hot"; they also have other 'friggin' hot" dancers who don't get such a luxury. It's because I can be counted upon to be on time, sober, work hard, tip well and neither cause nor participate in any problems. Being that I am about the only girl they have who can be trusted to behave well, they reward me by allowing me to come and go as I please.
So yes, schedules and rules about schedules usually exist, but dependable and trustworthy dancers often EARN their way out of stringent policies. That is respect in action, rather than bias. Conversely, it respects no one to allow the vet dancer to make a drunken ass out of herself solely because she's worked there for several years. THAT would be bias.
Im not sure if 30% is good or bad.
Let's think about this for a minute. Would you be content to take home 30% of what you currently earn, despite having worked hard for that amount? Would it be fair, theoretically, for a carpenter earning $14 per hour to be left with just $4.20 as his own share?
30% is hideous, if you haven't already figured that out, and it really doesn't matter what sum that 30% equals out to. To insinuate that anyone who earns an income a good bit higher than your own or a good bit higher than normal doesn't deserve to be allowed to keep it is the definition of socialism, which has a long history of failure. It's also blatant sour grapes.
It would depend on the night and on the entertainer.It sounds high to me.
And you purport to be an expert? All the DJs I know are aware of what girl makes what sort of money, and about how much they leave with. 30% is extortion and few clubs get away with it, though taking home only half of what you make (and still paying taxes on the 50% you get to keep) is more common. Regardless, not many girls will work under such circumstances for long unless the payoffs are truly extraordinary (ie; respect, perks and taking home 50% of $2k).
But if as you said,she properly took care of her support staff and it came up to 35% of what she made,should she then not tip out??
It's quite apparent in such a circumstance that the tip-out structure needs to be examined. You make the argument that nothing happens without support staff, but the reverse is equally true. The support staff won't make much if rampant greed drives the girls away. It is equally reprehensible for a waitress or bouncer to figuratively pick a dancer's pockets after the shift as for a dancer to refuse to tip anyone if she can get away with it. I support a fair income for dancers and support staff, not unfair divisions of the fruits of a dancers' labor simply because the management doesn't care to pay their own employees properly.
BigGreenMnM
05-26-2004, 10:35 AM
Every club I've worked in has rules for the schedule. However, each club also had dancers who were excepted from some or all of those rules, and not because they were "friggin' hot". At my primary club, one of our girls (Velvet of StripperWeb, in fact) doesn't bother with a schedule and hasn't for a long time. It isn't because she is "friggin' hot", it's because she has worked there long and hard for three dedicated years (or five, Velvet will forgive me if I forget which). She is always there on the same days, at the same time, and management knows she will continue to do so without the behest of being summoned by a schedule. We have plenty of "friggin' hot" dancers at this club, but reliable dancers are at a premium.
If she was friggin ugly,would she still be able to do it???NOT!!!
Its special treatment,even if its for a veteran.I know you dont see it,but try to look at it from the eyes of the girls who have to stick to the schedule that you dont because they do,and they are complaining amongst themselves in the dressing rooms and the dj booths about it.
Just so you know,I AGREE with special treatment for veterans!!
Call it what you want to,its still special treatment and i serve it up all night long to the veterans from the DJ booth.
A beautiful,reliable entertainer is worth her weight in gold to a dj!
I also work at another club where I am not on the schedule at all. I show up when I show up, and they are pleased to have me there. It's not because I'm "friggin' hot"; they also have other 'friggin' hot" dancers who don't get such a luxury. It's because I can be counted upon to be on time, sober, work hard, tip well and neither cause nor participate in any problems. Being that I am about the only girl they have who can be trusted to behave well, they reward me by allowing me to come and go as I please.
if you were 20lbs over what you should be,butt ugly,and had 1 leg,would you still be able to jump(hop on the 1 leg) schedules around town as you wished??I think not.Doesnt matter how dependeble you were.Its only the "friggin hot"entertainers who can do that.
You gotta admit,as a whole,entertainers are not the most dependible group on earth.
So yes, schedules and rules about schedules usually exist, but dependable and trustworthy dancers often EARN their way out of stringent policies. That is respect in action, rather than bias. Conversely, it respects no one to allow the vet dancer to make a drunken ass out of herself solely because she's worked there for several years. THAT would be bias.
its just my opinion.
1st night,average entertainer gets drunk,falls down.
1st night,friggin hot entertainer,gets drunk,falls down.
Both should get fined,but only 1 should be looking for a new club to work at the next day.
yes i know this is biased,but its life,and its this industry as a whole.Maybe not your club,but as a whole.
Let's think about this for a minute. Would you be content to take home 30% of what you currently earn, despite having worked hard for that amount? Would it be fair, theoretically, for a carpenter earning $14 per hour to be left with just $4.20 as his own share?
apples and oranges.This business isnt like any other i have seen.If a carpenter makes 1000 a day,uncle sam will be taking 30%.If you make money in the market,someone is always going to have their hand in your pocket.
MOST entertainers dont pay taxes,at least i hope you dont think they do!(im sure you and all the ladies on this board do :-X)
It cost money to do business,doesnt matter what business that is.Its whats left after that payout that determines if your getting screwed or not.
30% of 200 bucks isnt worth leaving the house.
30% of 1000 bucks isnt bad,you still bring home more then 75% of school trained professions,to include doctors and lawyers.
30% of 2000 bucks,im not trying to here your bitchin.(not yours,just an example)You are now in the top 5% of the friggin country as far as income!
Sorry if sharing some of that wealth with support staff,the people who make your income possible,causes some people problems.(not you,just an example)
Everyone wants to keep all the money they earn for a job well done,but it doesnt happen that way.Thats just life.
30% is hideous, if you haven't already figured that out, and it really doesn't matter what sum that 30% equals out to. To insinuate that anyone who earns an income a good bit higher than your own or a good bit higher than normal doesn't deserve to be allowed to keep it is the definition of socialism, which has a long history of failure. It's also blatant sour grapes.
as i said,it sounds high to me,not alot of clubs ask that of its entertainers.ONLY the clubs where the entertainers can make a chitload of money can and still keep a full rotation.
Socialism???
Are you sure???
Seems the more you make here in the good ole USA,the more money you have to pay at tax time.
This is something that is common in every social structure,even ours.
And you purport to be an expert? All the DJs I know are aware of what girl makes what sort of money, and about how much they leave with.
roflmao!!!!!!!!
Can anyone say they really know how much an entertainer makes???lol most dont know what they made that night themselves until they get home and clean out the dance bag,pull all the money from their stash spots,put it all in a pile,and then count it.Even then all wont find all the money till they shower and find a 20 stuck to their ass!
Yes,I can guess with the best of them as to what a entertainer makes each night,but i would have to challenge anyone myself who said they were an expert at it.
30% is extortion and few clubs get away with it, though taking home only half of what you make (and still paying taxes on the 50% you get to keep) is more common. Regardless, not many girls will work under such circumstances for long unless the payoffs are truly extraordinary (ie; respect, perks and taking home 50% of $2k).
I think we are saying the same thing.
Jinx.
But if as you said,she properly took care of her support staff and it came up to 35% of what she made,should she then not tip out??
It's quite apparent in such a circumstance that the tip-out structure needs to be examined. You make the argument that nothing happens without support staff, but the reverse is equally true. The support staff won't make much if rampant greed drives the girls away. It is equally reprehensible for a waitress or bouncer to figuratively pick a dancer's pockets after the shift as for a dancer to refuse to tip anyone if she can get away with it. I support a fair income for dancers and support staff, not unfair divisions of the fruits of a dancers' labor simply because the management doesn't care to pay their own employees properly.
Im not going to argue the chicken or the egg with you.We seem to agree on this topic.staff and entertainers need each other,or nobody makes money.And both need the clubs as a earnings platform.Most of the money comming into this business comes in via the entertainers,part of that money is funneled down to the clubs and the support staff.
Thats the beauty of it for the entertainers,if they dont like the platform,or those supporting it,she can go elsewhere,with alot of ease.
An entertainer can flip the bird to a club with one hand,and dial the club down the street on her new video/cam cell phone with the other.She is in the drivers seat of her new BMW.
If you find yourself in a win win situation thats only 10%,good for you!
If you find yourself in a win win situation thats only 30%,again,good for you!
If you stay in a club where you make 300 a night and only give up 10%,and dont go to a club where you can make 1000 and give up 30%,your not looking at it from the right angle.(Just imo and im not talking about anyone specific)
BigGreenMnM
05-26-2004, 10:37 AM
me tinx Katrina may be right.
Sorry guys,im really trying.
BigGreenMnM
05-26-2004, 10:43 AM
It cut off my last point.....
If your in a club thats making you 300 a night and the tipout is 10%,your nuts for not going to a club that makes you 1000 a night and tipout is 30%.( not you,entertainers in general)
I may not know how to quote,but i can do math and count money.(ok only up to 20 with my shoes off,i can even get to BLACKJACK if i drop my pants)
VenusGoddess
05-26-2004, 11:50 AM
Ok...first things first. You are putting the "quote" at the end of the quote you are quoting (lol...do you follow me?). But, you NEED to put the /quote after the quote you are wanting to quote. So, your quotes in edit mode look like this:
[ quote ] Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.[ / quote ]
You say...yada, yada, yada, so that's it.
[ quote ] LOL...I hope it's done.[ / quote ]
You answer...well, it's not, ok?
There...that should help you. I put spaces between everything, so that the computer shouldn't read it as a direct command. If you click on the "quote" button for this post, you'll see how I fixed the quote features throughout the post. That should help you as well. Ok...and now back to the discussion.
Where the management treats the girls with respect and yet holds them accountable for their actions. Where the rules that are in place are enforced and are the same for everyone. If you are a top dancer and you break a rule, then you get the same treatment that a newbie doing the same thing would get (if not worse, since the vet should know better).
like the club that I am at. They let me come and go as I please.
I agree 100%.Now i gotta ask a question,do ALL the girls at this club you work at do the same thing with come and go as you please??Are you getting special treatment???
I do not consider it special treatment. I consider it part of my "agreement/rule" with the club. When I was hired, I told them up front that I would not be able to work scheduled days, and asked if they would be willing to let me come in when I could. They agreed to try it for a while (to see if I was reliable). I have been doing this for several months. There has never been a problem. They have even asked if I could work a certain day...and when I say that I will do something like that, I am there...ready to work at the time I need to be. I pay my house fees with no complaint...push myself to work as hard as I can. Make my money...joke around with my fellow dancers and employees, I take the breaks I need to take, but keep them to a minimum. So, it's not a "special treatment". It's something they agreed to with me. Do they have this agreement with the other dancers? I don't know...it doesn't concern me, so I don't make a point to find out or care. If you want to think that I have this arrangement because I am a "hottie", then by all means, that's fine!! LOL :D
Anywho...I also do not see how a DJ, who is up in a booth, can understand FULLY how the dancers feel. You may see the action from a different viewpoint, but you are by no means, "in the trenches". You do not deal with the customers on a one-to-one basis.
My opinions are formed from years as a dancer,manager,and dj.
Where you may deal with the customers on a one on one basis,so does the DJ.He also deals with the customers as a whole all night long.DJ's read the crowd all night long to determine what to do next.Im sorry you dont see that,or dont see that with your current DJ.
Its just my opinion,but NOBODY at the club can make YOU more money then the dj.
It's great that you have so many years of experience. But, again, I have to disagree with the last comment on here. It needs to be rephrased. NOBODY at the club can make me money. They can give me opportunities, but I AM the one who makes as much or as little as I want. It's just that simple. So, if you play some kick ass music and go with the crowd, that's great. But, if I walk up to some guy and act all bitchy...or act like I am completely bored on stage, etc, etc, etc. It's not going to matter how good YOU are...I am still not going to make money. It goes the other way around...If you play shitty music, I can still make a ton of money. I make this money because I know what I am doing and I know HOW to do what needs to be done. You are providing ambiance and backround music. It's not the DJ making me money. My DJ can play shitty music for me on stage...and I'll still do well...because I dance my best no matter what. So, you thinking that I am making money because of YOU (DJ) is a little bit of an over-inflated egotistical attitude. Sorry.
House fees of $300 per night are insane.
lol i agree!
there are some clubs that charge this crazy amount(not ours!),but its because the entertainers are making thousands a night.If there wasnt someone paying it,it would have gone down right??Entertainers WILL pay this money if the money at the end of the night warrents it.
This is not always true. Some dancers pay it because they think that they cannot make money elsewhere. I have friends who dance at a club that charges this...on the weekends, pretty much. It's what happened when new management came in and took over. They lost a lot of girls, but they have the little girls there that just started dancing that are willing to pay it...but, they also have an extremely high turn-over. You'll most likely not see the same girl there for very long. At my club, they have girls that have been there for 3-5 years. One girl has been coming and going for 10 years!! Loyalty and respect is not gouging the girls on their house fees. Make them reasonable, and they will stay. Or do the high fees and the club will lose their top girls and the only ones who stay are the ones who don't make any money and then complain while they down a few drinks and start doing extras to make up for it. Lose-lose situation.
Simply because I AM the one who worked my ass off for that money.
Without a doubt,your the star,your the quarterback,your the southpaw pitcher,but you aint got chit without your support staff.
Without the DJ,door guys,bartenders,etc,you wouldnt make any money at all because there would be no club.
If the entertainers make no money,neither does the support staff.If the entertainer does make money,so should her support staff.
Ever have a waitress send a customer your way for a lapdance???She doesnt deserve half,but she sure as shit deserves a tip from you.
I never said that I didn't think that we should NOT tip our support staff. I tip my "people" very well. But, you are kind of missing the point here. The point being, if I am going home with LESS money than my support staff...then that's a problem. I do not get a "paycheck" so whatever I make on a given night is my paycheck. If I made $1000, and only walk out with $450 (BEFORE taxes...1/2 of that money goes into an account for taxes), I've made WAY, WAY, WAY less than I should have. Make more money, you say? Sure!! But, sometimes, that's not possible. YOU were a dancer...you should understand this. Walking home with 30% of my nightly earnings (before taxes, again) is not acceptable. Tipping out 30% is not something I am against. I do it a lot...I LIKE to tip out the people who help me make money. Tipping OUT 30% is fine...Walking HOME with 30% (before taxes) is not.
Now, I make quite a bit of money at my club. Our house fees are reasonable. The only thing I really do not like about our club is that damn funny money. BUT...I make more money with it, so I will tolerate it. I DO think that they gouge the dancers with the 25%. Why? Because most clubs charge the dancers, but not the other staff who turn in the funny money. That's wrong. EVERY ONE should pay the fee. But, alas...it's not that way. When I open my own club :worship: I'll change the funny money thing.
Ok...back to our regularly posted discussion.
edited to correct the quotes. :D
Lilith
05-26-2004, 02:32 PM
It cut off my last point.....
If your in a club thats making you 300 a night and the tipout is 10%,your nuts for not going to a club that makes you 1000 a night and tipout is 30%.( not you,entertainers in general)
I may not know how to quote,but i can do math and count money.(ok only up to 20 with my shoes off,i can even get to BLACKJACK if i drop my pants)
As has already been pointed out, your math skills should also be sufficient to deduce that taking home 30% is quite mathematically different that tipping out 30%. Just repeating the "30%" does not make them the same, as in one you are taking home 30% and in the other you take home 70%.
Lilith
05-26-2004, 03:14 PM
If she was friggin ugly,would she still be able to do it???NOT!!!
Ha. I'd like to see you prove this, as you have no clue what either of us look like.
Its special treatment,even if its for a veteran.I know you dont see it,but try to look at it from the eyes of the girls who have to stick to the schedule that you dont because they do,and they are complaining amongst themselves in the dressing rooms and the dj booths about it.
If they cannot even be trusted to show up for the shifts they put themselves up for, then I don't possibly see how it would be unfair that I can be trusted. We all had equal opportunity to earn the same treatment; they squandered that opportunity, and I did not. It would only be "special" and unfair treatment if we did not all have the chance to earn that treatment; for instance, if they only gave leeway to beautiful girls, however late they stroll in or how little they earn, or to drunken idiots because the management thinks they're "friggin' hot".
Just so you know,I AGREE with special treatment for veterans!!
Call it what you want to,its still special treatment and i serve it up all night long to the veterans from the DJ booth.
Call it what YOU want to, but allowing a dancer to behave like a lush is special treatment, unfair to the rest of us, makes everyone look bad and is vastly annoying to the beautiful, reliable entertainers.
if you were 20lbs over what you should be,butt ugly,and had 1 leg,would you still be able to jump(hop on the 1 leg) schedules around town as you wished??I think not.Doesnt matter how dependeble you were.
Oh, for the love of Mike. Gee, Mr. Hyperbole, would I even be a dancer if I looked like that? Don't waste my time with exaggerations.
Its only the "friggin hot"entertainers who can do that.
You gotta admit,as a whole,entertainers are not the most dependible group on earth.
Cetrytainly not when the only respect is awarded to the "friggin' hot" dancers, regardless of their reliability or professionalism. Methinks you might have a more dependable crowd if you (Gasp!) treat dependable dancers with respect without caring if they're "friggin' hot" or merely pretty.
Which, ironically enough, is exactly what I have been saying. Thanks for proving how ineffective your "friggin' hot" methods are.
its just my opinion.
1st night,average entertainer gets drunk,falls down.
1st night,friggin hot entertainer,gets drunk,falls down.
Both should get fined,but only 1 should be looking for a new club to work at the next day.
yes i know this is biased,but its life,and its this industry as a whole.Maybe not your club,but as a whole.
It's probably also how you wound up with a lot of "friggin' hot" and unreliable dancers. Fire them both, I say. Both are a liability, regardless of being "friggin' hot" or not.
apples and oranges.This business isnt like any other i have seen.If a carpenter makes 1000 a day,uncle sam will be taking 30%.
Now who's talking apples and oranges? I'd like to point out that we were discussing taking 70% per day, not 30%.
And the very basis of free market and capitalism is that one's own earnings should go, for the most part, into one's own pocket based on one's own work. If you propose that this business is not capitalism, then the circumstances leave little other labels expect for indentured servitude and extortion.
If you make money in the market,someone is always going to have their hand in your pocket.
And? Traditionally it has always been a poor argument that bad behaviour should be excused because it has always been done that way.
MOST entertainers dont pay taxes,at least i hope you dont think they do!(im sure you and all the ladies on this board do :-X)
And? It's a poor argument indeed that gouging someone else's earnings is proper because their lack of filing taxes leaves them with a larger share than if they did things legally.
It cost money to do business,doesnt matter what business that is.
And if your business is failing to maximize the efforts of YOUR OWN work because other people are extorting money from said business, then it is still wrong.
Its whats left after that payout that determines if your getting screwed or not.
Ha. Being "allowed" to take home only 30% of my money isn't necessarily being screwed with a non-skid dick. That's rich indeed. Are you Republican or Democrat?
30% of 200 bucks isnt worth leaving the house.
Indeed, I give that club three months to close it's doors.
30% of 1000 bucks isnt bad,you still bring home more then 75% of school trained professions,to include doctors and lawyers.
The very definition of Socialism, quoted by a layman. You have a natural talent for sour grapes posed as a political view.
30% of 2000 bucks,im not trying to here your bitchin.(not yours,just an example)You are now in the top 5% of the friggin country as far as income!
Therefore I deserve NOTHING from my hard work! What a very anti-American sentiment.
Sorry if sharing some of that wealth with support staff,the people who make your income possible,causes some people problems.(not you,just an example)
Somehow I doubt you would refer to it as "sharing" if we were discussing you turning over 70% of what you earned.
Everyone wants to keep all the money they earn for a job well done,but it doesnt happen that way.Thats just life.
No one said "all" so I don't know where you got that from. I'm the first person to exhort trifling wenches who refuse to tip their staff. What we are talkling about is not "all" but "fair", and I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't have a problem with turning over 70% of your own income.
Socialism???
Are you sure???
Socialism is political Robin-Hood-ism; taking from those who have much to give to those who have little, theoretically ensuring equality. It never works and usually ends in bloody revolt, because the definition of "having much" starts exactly higher than what you yourself have and no one likes to have the fruits of their labor taken away from them.
Sound familiar?
Seems the more you make here in the good ole USA,the more money you have to pay at tax time.
This is something that is common in every social structure,even ours.
Not even close. Have you read history at all? Plus, those other people of hiogher incomes pay taxes on money they were allowed to keep. You are advocating handing over 70% of your income and then paying taxes on top of it. I find it hard to believe that you dop not see this asd preposterous (probably because you don't even think how it might feel if this happened to you. thanks for treating us like human beings.)
lol most dont know what they made that night themselves until they get home and clean out the dance bag,pull all the money from their stash spots,put it all in a pile,and then count it.Even then all wont find all the money till they shower and find a 20 stuck to their ass!
Oh no, no exaggeration there.
Most of the money comming into this business comes in via the entertainers...
Then give me a good reason why she can't keep the larger portion of that money, since she's the one who earned it.
BigGreenMnM
05-26-2004, 06:27 PM
It cut off my last point.....
If your in a club thats making you 300 a night and the tipout is 10%,your nuts for not going to a club that makes you 1000 a night and tipout is 30%.( not you,entertainers in general)
I may not know how to quote,but i can do math and count money.(ok only up to 20 with my shoes off,i can even get to BLACKJACK if i drop my pants)
As has already been pointed out, your math skills should also be sufficient to deduce that taking home 30% is quite mathematically different that tipping out 30%. Just repeating the "30%" does not make them the same, as in one you are taking home 30% and in the other you take home 70%.
are you friggin kidding me???
who is talking about an entertainer tipping out 70%????
Thats insane and thats bullshit.
The only time i see that is when an entertainer is paying off debts to the club.Then its not bullshit.
BigGreenMnM
05-26-2004, 06:56 PM
If she was friggin ugly,would she still be able to do it???NOT!!!
Ha. I'd like to see you prove this, as you have no clue what either of us look like.
I dont have to,the gray hairs on my nads tell me your a hottie if your jumping schedules around town.I dont have to see you.Prima donna all the way.
Its special treatment,even if its for a veteran.I know you dont see it,but try to look at it from the eyes of the girls who have to stick to the schedule that you dont because they do,and they are complaining amongst themselves in the dressing rooms and the dj booths about it.
If they cannot even be trusted to show up for the shifts they put themselves up for, then I don't possibly see how it would be unfair that I can be trusted. We all had equal opportunity to earn the same treatment; they squandered that opportunity, and I did not. It would only be "special" and unfair treatment if we did not all have the chance to earn that treatment; for instance, if they only gave leeway to beautiful girls, however late they stroll in or how little they earn, or to drunken idiots because the management thinks they're "friggin' hot".
I could care less what your excuse for the special treatment you get is,as I have said,its warrented imo.
Are you trying to jusify your special treatment to the forum or to me???I have already said it existed,and im guilty as charged.
Just so you know,I AGREE with special treatment for veterans!!
Call it what you want to,its still special treatment and i serve it up all night long to the veterans from the DJ booth.
echo
Call it what YOU want to, but allowing a dancer to behave like a lush is special treatment, unfair to the rest of us, makes everyone look bad and is vastly annoying to the beautiful, reliable entertainers.
I dont work with any,but it annoys the ugly ones also im told.
Just an example,in no way ment to cause a hex!........
Ok,your cat dies tomorrow.
You are having a bad day because your ovulating and your man is 3000 miles away from you fighting in the desert.
You dont want to go to work,but ya gotta,rent is due and baby needs a new pair of shoes.
You have a few to many at work.
should YOU(yes you,no other on the board,but YOU:::points::::)
Should you get the donald trump---Your Fired????
If your what you seem to think you are,I doubt it.
if you were 20lbs over what you should be,butt ugly,and had 1 leg,would you still be able to jump(hop on the 1 leg) schedules around town as you wished??I think not.Doesnt matter how dependeble you were.
Oh, for the love of Mike. Gee, Mr. Hyperbole, would I even be a dancer if I looked like that? Don't waste my time with exaggerations.
Sorry,I have put a one legged entertainer on stage before,and from other boards im on,so have others.Its the one armed ones that are rare im told.
And can any DJ or entertainer here say they have never seen a fat girl on stage.
Can they say they have never seen an ugly girl on stage??
Not a stretch,again,its facts.
And no,i would bet you DONT look like that and I would raise if called.
Its only the "friggin hot"entertainers who can do that.
You gotta admit,as a whole,entertainers are not the most dependible group on earth.
Cetrytainly not when the only respect is awarded to the "friggin' hot" dancers, regardless of their reliability or professionalism. Methinks you might have a more dependable crowd if you (Gasp!) treat dependable dancers with respect without caring if they're "friggin' hot" or merely pretty.
I didnt invent the rules of this game.In this world,pretty gals flourish while the overweight ones and the less then stunning ones fight for scraps.Thats just the way it is.
Which, ironically enough, is exactly what I have been saying. Thanks for proving how ineffective your "friggin' hot" methods are.
my methodes???
Not mine lil,lifes.
If your "skin"hasnt toughend up by now to this reality,im sorry.
open a playboy,penthouse,cosmopolitan,or and edless list of mags and advertising other then Oprahs monthly,you will see.
Im not sure where this post came from,its very unlike the ones before on this topic,in those you sounded rational and well spoken,in this one you sounded like a member of the ladies tea party.
I cant belive you suggested debating 70% tipout.
its just my opinion.
1st night,average entertainer gets drunk,falls down.
1st night,friggin hot entertainer,gets drunk,falls down.
Both should get fined,but only 1 should be looking for a new club to work at the next day.
yes i know this is biased,but its life,and its this industry as a whole.Maybe not your club,but as a whole.
It's probably also how you wound up with a lot of "friggin' hot" and unreliable dancers. Fire them both, I say. Both are a liability, regardless of being "friggin' hot" or not.
apples and oranges.This business isnt like any other i have seen.If a carpenter makes 1000 a day,uncle sam will be taking 30%.
Now who's talking apples and oranges? I'd like to point out that we were discussing taking 70% per day, not 30%.
And the very basis of free market and capitalism is that one's own earnings should go, for the most part, into one's own pocket based on one's own work. If you propose that this business is not capitalism, then the circumstances leave little other labels expect for indentured servitude and extortion.
If you make money in the market,someone is always going to have their hand in your pocket.
And? Traditionally it has always been a poor argument that bad behaviour should be excused because it has always been done that way.
MOST entertainers dont pay taxes,at least i hope you dont think they do!(im sure you and all the ladies on this board do :-X)
And? It's a poor argument indeed that gouging someone else's earnings is proper because their lack of filing taxes leaves them with a larger share than if they did things legally.
It cost money to do business,doesnt matter what business that is.
And if your business is failing to maximize the efforts of YOUR OWN work because other people are extorting money from said business, then it is still wrong.
Its whats left after that payout that determines if your getting screwed or not.
Ha. Being "allowed" to take home only 30% of my money isn't necessarily being screwed with a non-skid dick. That's rich indeed. Are you Republican or Democrat?
30% of 200 bucks isnt worth leaving the house.
Indeed, I give that club three months to close it's doors.
30% of 1000 bucks isnt bad,you still bring home more then 75% of school trained professions,to include doctors and lawyers.
The very definition of Socialism, quoted by a layman. You have a natural talent for sour grapes posed as a political view.
30% of 2000 bucks,im not trying to here your bitchin.(not yours,just an example)You are now in the top 5% of the friggin country as far as income!
Therefore I deserve NOTHING from my hard work! What a very anti-American sentiment.
Sorry if sharing some of that wealth with support staff,the people who make your income possible,causes some people problems.(not you,just an example)
Somehow I doubt you would refer to it as "sharing" if we were discussing you turning over 70% of what you earned.
Everyone wants to keep all the money they earn for a job well done,but it doesnt happen that way.Thats just life.
No one said "all" so I don't know where you got that from. I'm the first person to exhort trifling wenches who refuse to tip their staff. What we are talkling about is not "all" but "fair", and I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't have a problem with turning over 70% of your own income.
Socialism???
Are you sure???
Socialism is political Robin-Hood-ism; taking from those who have much to give to those who have little, theoretically ensuring equality. It never works and usually ends in bloody revolt, because the definition of "having much" starts exactly higher than what you yourself have and no one likes to have the fruits of their labor taken away from them.
Sound familiar?
Seems the more you make here in the good ole USA,the more money you have to pay at tax time.
This is something that is common in every social structure,even ours.
Not even close. Have you read history at all? Plus, those other people of hiogher incomes pay taxes on money they were allowed to keep. You are advocating handing over 70% of your income and then paying taxes on top of it. I find it hard to believe that you dop not see this asd preposterous (probably because you don't even think how it might feel if this happened to you. thanks for treating us like human beings.)
lol most dont know what they made that night themselves until they get home and clean out the dance bag,pull all the money from their stash spots,put it all in a pile,and then count it.Even then all wont find all the money till they shower and find a 20 stuck to their ass!
Oh no, no exaggeration there.
Most of the money comming into this business comes in via the entertainers...
Then give me a good reason why she can't keep the larger portion of that money, since she's the one who earned it.
BigGreenMnM
05-26-2004, 07:03 PM
btw,I figured it out.
It was the / thingy in the quote box.
(doing snoopy dance on desk,ending with arms crossed like eminem.)
"now what biotch?"
Much love to those that tried to help,its true,its hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
VenusGoddess
05-26-2004, 07:11 PM
btw,I figured it out.
It was the / thingy in the quote box.
(doing snoopy dance on desk,ending with arms crossed like eminem.)
"now what biotch?"
Much love to those that tried to help,its true,its hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
:10: You learned how to quote!!!
Party!! :boobies: :beer: :party:
BTW...MnM...was it my post that helped you? Huh? Huh? Huh? Was it my post??? LOL
Bridgette
05-27-2004, 12:25 AM
Ladies, it is impossible to have a REAL conversation with someone who has such an overinflated ego that he can't read well enough to comprehend which 30% we're talking about or even stay on point.
Anyway, this was a post for the LADIES to discuss what WE thought would improve matters in clubs. Did you get that?
I'd like to add that it would be great if owners would avoid hiring their lazy, unemployed, skill-less family members to manage their clubs. I have worked some clubs where this was the case, and it was ALWAYS disastrous. Hire a real manager please.
polecat
05-27-2004, 12:47 AM
are you friggin kidding me???
who is talking about an entertainer tipping out 70%????
Thats insane and thats bullshit.
The only time i see that is when an entertainer is paying off debts to the club.Then its not bullshit.
This is kinda what I meant about the difference in exposure to the industry as a whole, versus exposure in one limited locale/region.
It's absolutely not uncommon for women to tip out 70% to 130% of their earnings (yes, you read it right- come in and work, and pay out of pocket on rare occasion) during slower weeks in fixed stage fee payout model city clubs.
Bigger club chains ( *cough* Deja Vu *cough*) try to work it so as they get up to a 40-50% cut by policy of the bigger yielding dancers. And any attempts by the women to circumvent policy (such as establishing higher minimum price fixing with the other dancers) is usually thwarted by management nailing up tacky signs listing prices.
Honestly- the ideals you seem firmly established to believe might apply to whatever small town/economy club you work at, but they surely do not apply to all the clubs coast to coast.. and most definately NOT in the more busy/big city clubs with lesser pure management tactics.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
BigGreenMnM
05-27-2004, 06:03 AM
Anyway, this was a post for the LADIES to discuss what WE thought would improve matters in clubs. Did you get that?
No I didnt get that,either did a few other "guys" sprinkled into this"conversation".Maybe because the original post wasnt directed towards males or females.
Try sludging back thru the bullshit,your supportive peons,and the bad quotations,if you read lil's first post on this topic,you will see she didnt direct it towards anyone but the entire forum.
shame on you Lil.
And guess what,if you really read it all again,you "might'find the part where you tossed the first cowpie in my direction for merely stating my opinion.
It seems you only want submissive men ,and females that agree with you involved in your conversations.
Sorry sweety,the world doesnt revolve around you.(it does however orbit my god like penis on 24 hour intervals )
There are so many other boards,Oprah,breast feeding mothers,femmi nazi's r us,etc etc that you may find to be more to the queens liking,i suggest these all to you for your enjoyment.
BigGreenMnM
05-27-2004, 06:52 AM
are you friggin kidding me???
who is talking about an entertainer tipping out 70%????
Thats insane and thats bullshit.
The only time i see that is when an entertainer is paying off debts to the club.Then its not bullshit.
This is kinda what I meant about the difference in exposure to the industry as a whole, versus exposure in one limited locale/region.
It's absolutely not uncommon for women to tip out 70% to 130% of their earnings (yes, you read it right- come in and work, and pay out of pocket on rare occasion) during slower weeks in fixed stage fee payout model city clubs.
Bigger club chains ( *cough* Deja Vu *cough*) try to work it so as they get up to a 40-50% cut by policy of the bigger yielding dancers. And any attempts by the women to circumvent policy (such as establishing higher minimum price fixing with the other dancers) is usually thwarted by management nailing up tacky signs listing prices.
Honestly- the ideals you seem firmly established to believe might apply to whatever small town/economy club you work at, but they surely do not apply to all the clubs coast to coast.. and most definately NOT in the more busy/big city clubs with lesser pure management tactics.
Dude,im not sure when they took your nads,but you really are starting to sound like a new girl trying to fit into the dressing room "clique".
Besides,didnt you see queen B's post??????
Your not even supposed to be here.Sit silent and await her next direction like a good little biotch.
If you want to try and tell this forum that there are clubs that charge 70-130% house fee/tip out on a nightly basis,i would have to say your nuts,or working outside of the USA borders.
I too have seen the entertainers line up at the ATM at the end of a slow night so they can pay their tipout.AS THEY SHOULD!!!
They danced,now its time to pay the fiddler,and dont forget to get enough out to tip the dj!Chances are they made a grand the night before,its not my fault they are broke the next day.
Nobody is forcing them to put their card in the ATM,they can just walk out,some do.Those that dont are basically saying"its worth it to pay the house fee,i made a grand last night and will prob make a grand the next night."
The moment THEY punch in the ole pin number,THEY made a choice.
Deja vu huh??? Nice Clubs.We got mgr Brian and his stripper wife Tara from them not to long ago.Had to get rid of them within a few months because of the drugs and drama they brought with them.
We have many X vu girls on staff now,and they are dam good,wouldnt trade um for the world.Yet they traded??
They left one chain and came to ours.
Am I saying that Deja Vu is a bad club???No friggin way!!
Awsome clubs,some of the best in the country as far as im concerend.
Its some of their mgrs,at some of their locations, that leave alot to be desired.But then its the same on this side of the fence also.
I call you on your bullshit spanky.
Name the club that has a 70%-130% tip out for the forum.
(or go back to washing bridgitte's t-bars in the sink and shaddup.Oh , and dont forget the woolite)
BigGreenMnM
05-27-2004, 07:42 AM
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh yes........Nietzsche.
(reclines in oversized leather chair)
I know of him....
(pulls cigar from vest pocket and bites the end off it)
Not on a personal basis mind you,but I have seen his works...
(gently lights cigar with silver tipped lighter)
His name sounds great on the microphone...
neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
(slowly puffing on cigar,a wicked smile emerges)
I am in no way a philo major,but i have slept with a few.They require 3 hours of cuddling and conversation per 1 hour of sex minimum.
(blows smoke ring that drifts ever so slowly towrds you,encircling the nipple of your left breast as it disapates into nothing :o)
You may be correct Mlady
(tips hat)
I shouldnt be fighting with the monsters.They are starting to bore me as well.
But you must admit,when called on their bullshit,it was fun to watch them wiggle.
polecat
05-27-2004, 08:05 AM
Dude,im not sure when they took your nads,but you really are starting to sound like a new girl trying to fit into the dressing room "clique".
I see.. so whenever factual, proven and realistic industry information is given to you, you're instant response is labeling and juvenile attacks formed as boyish tests of manhood. Duly noted... and also makes it readily apparent your credibilty and contribution to any topic.
Besides,didnt you see queen B's post??????Your not even supposed to be here.Sit silent and await her next direction like a good little biotch.
Actually I did read Bridgette's post, and it was very clear... some basic reading comprehension makes it also clear that what I'm doing here doesn't disagree with it's premise- I haven't been giving MY wishlist for the "Perfect Club".. I never made any such contribution.. nor have I tried to pretend to be a dancer or pretend to know what all dancers want.. nor tried to shove down their throats what they *should* want.
If you want to try and tell this forum that there are clubs that charge 70-130% house fee/tip out on a nightly basis,i would have to say your nuts,or working outside of the USA borders.
It just further displays your ignorance and complete lack of reading comprehension skills. I very clearly put the out of pocket defined as rarely.. but somehow you decide to cast this as nightly?
When you reread my post and actually digest it's content, I'll be more apt to provide logical replies.. but so far, you're not replying to me as I said no such thing.
And yes, high percentage (or negative) cuts are quite easy in big city clubs with fixed payouts. While your little one-horse town, econo-crap city may have payout models more sanely implemented, the bigger cities and bigger clubs (and chains) have more heinous payouts. In SF, a stripper may have to pay anywhere from $150 to up to $400 a shift flat rate for a stage fee.. not including staff/dj tips.
I too have seen the entertainers line up at the ATM at the end of a slow night so they can pay their tipout.AS THEY SHOULD!!!
So, basically, what you're saying is- the dancers should be responsible for the club management's total and complete failure in generating enough door traffic to cover their stage fees?
Sorry but this is flawed logic as the agreement and sole purpose WHY employees work for a company is so as that company can hold up it's end of the deal. If a club isn't generating enough foot traffic and customers, then the responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of the ownership/management. These are the parties responsible for marketing and creating visibility for the club.
They danced,now its time to pay the fiddler,and dont forget to get enough out to tip the dj!Chances are they made a grand the night before,its not my fault they are broke the next day.
Nobody is forcing them to put their card in the ATM,they can just walk out,some do.
More ignorance in clear display. In this region, miss two payouts- you're fired.
Deja vu huh??? Nice Clubs.We got mgr Brian and his stripper wife Tara from them not to long ago.Had to get rid of them within a few months because of the drugs and drama they brought with them.
They own 12 of the 16 clubs out here.
I call you on your bullshit spanky. Name the club that has a 70%-130% tip out for the forum.
Do the math from above. It doesn't take rocket science or an abacus to figure out on a slow night, a dancer may not be able to generate $400 + staff tips.
I call your obvious ignorance, "spanky".
(or go back to washing bridgitte's t-bars in the sink and shaddup.Oh , and dont forget the woolite)
Maybe if you beg real nicely, she'll let you wash them for her.. it would be a wise decision for someone like yourself since she contains more industry knowledge in her little finger than you obviously contain in your entire being. You'd be wise to listen to the overwhelming majority here versus your own tiny, miniscule, microcosm-like misconceptions of sitting in a stankly aired DJ booth out in the middle of bum-fuck Egypt and trying to apply it to the whole universe.
What may be the case there is most definately NOT the case everywhere... for the third and final time.
Jay Zeno
05-27-2004, 08:37 AM
There's trolls, and there's baiters. Sometimes they overlap, and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. Their purpose is not to persuade but to annoy.
Melonie
05-27-2004, 09:59 AM
sounds like a 'Master Baiter' to me LOL !
Actually, there IS a business model analogy which comes pretty close to dancing in upscale clubs. That other business is an upscale hair salon. The owner of the salon provides the building, the necessary equipment (i.e. sinks, dryers, chemicals) , the advertising, and creates the opportunity for independent contractor hairstylists to ply their trade with customers the salon initially draws in. From a standpoint of capitalism, the salon owner has made a huge investment to set up the facility and incurs huge expenses to operate the facility, while the independent contractor hair stylists have essentially invested nothing besides their own time and talent.
With the upscale hair salon business model, the owner sets basic prices to customers for services provided. The independent contractor hair stylists then are paid a percentage of the customer amounts, with the remaining percentage going to the salon owner for his "renting the space" and "providing the necessary equipment" to the independent contractor hair stylists. In the alternative, the independent contractor hair stylists agree to pay x dollars per shift to the salon owner for "renting the space" and "providing the necessary equipment", and then keep any money that they receive from salon customers during that shift (or dig into their own pockets if the day's customer total is less than the day's 'rent' payment to the salon owner). This is exactly the same business model that is typically used by upscale 'corporate' clubs.
In this business model, whether it applies to a hair salon or a strip club, it is the owner's responsibility to attract/provide a pool of customers upon which the independent contractors can ply their trade. To the extent that particular independent contractors do a better job, do a faster job etc. thus earn more money in the same amount of time, it's up to the clubowner whether or not he wants to structure his 'rent' in the form of a percentage (which charges the faster, better independent contractors more and the slower or sloppier independent contractors less), or whether he wants to structure his 'rent' in the form of a fixed amount (which spreads the actual costs of providing the building and the necessary facilities equally among all of the independent contractors, even though their actual customer sales may differ).
It's also the owner's responsibility to get rid of independent contractors whose talents and/or efforts are not up to the standards of the establishment or who otherwise cause problems, as a matter of fairness to the other independent contractors and to maintain the reputation/customer perception of the business.
The obvious real world difference between the hair salons and the strip clubs is that the vast majority of hair salon owners live up to their responsibilities. In contrast, the majority of strip club owners seem to shirk these responsibilities for a variety of reasons ranging from pure greed to favoritism of one independent contractor versus another to not giving a shit ! The flip side of real world difference is that the vast majority of independent hair stylists understand the costs incurred by the upscale salon owner (because they have considered the costs involved in opening their own shop and buying their own equipment) and don't dispute the payment of 'rent' to the upscale salon owner in exchange for being provided access to ready customers and the necessary equipment, while a majority of dancers arguably do not understand the need/desire of a club to collect a portion of dancer's customer receipts in exchange for providing the building, the bar, the stage and sound system, the advertising etc. as well as the access to ready customers necessary for the dancer to ply her trade.
Like independent contractor hair stylists, dancers also have the option of setting up their own shop and keeping 100% of their receipts from customers they attract. However, this is usually referred to as escorting !
But there is also a huge difference between hair salons and strip clubs - the fact that government regulation usually prevents natural market forces from causing appropriate changes to happen. With a hair salon, if the salon owner allows his establishment to become rundown, and allows independent contractors who do a sloppy job to cut hair in his establishment, it wouldn't be very long before some sharp competitor would open a new hair salon and put the slacker salon out of business. On the other hand, with strip clubs there is usually a mountain of government regulation standing in the way of opening a new strip club, which effectively shelters slacker clubs from having to face any new competition. This often places existing clubs in the position of being a monopoly business, but without the official oversight which would apply to other monopoly businesses such as electric or phone companies. Owners of 'monopoly' strip clubs are essentially free to do whatever they want, with dancers facing the choice of going along with the program or trying their luck in another club/city/state !
Today it is only the 'corporate clubs' who have the financial resources, the business reputation, the political clout, the legal resources etc. to fight their way through this government regulation. But when a new 'corporate club' does manage to open, it usually trounces the existing slacker clubs in a very short period of time. Of course, once existing clubs have been driven out of business, the 'corporate club' then becomes the new 'protected' monopoly, and is also free to do whatever they want to and pose dancers with the same choice as before of going along with the program or trying there luck elsewhere.
Lilith
05-27-2004, 10:44 AM
*le sigh*
And he can't even demonstrate a moderate level reading comprehension. I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person..
Melonie, I've often used that "hair salon" analogy when customers say that we are getting ripped off. They are surprised that this is a legitimate business model used elsewhere. but explanations that "house fees" are a rent of the stage seem to quiet them.
Melonie
05-27-2004, 10:49 AM
Melonie, I've often used that "hair salon" analogy when customers say that we are getting ripped off. They are surprised that this is a legitimate business model used elsewhere. but explanations that "house fees" are a rent of the stage seem to quiet them.
This of course stems from the lack of accurate info regarding strip clubs and dancers which the general population is exposed to - usually the Hollywood Stereotype via movies and TV. According to that stereotype, customers usually think that all dancers are earning $1000 a night. According to that same stereotype, customer's wives think that dancers are thieving, lying, drug addicted whores ! At least the majority of people in the general population have experienced a hair salon first hand, while the vast majority of the general population have not actually patronized strip clubs.
catfly
05-28-2004, 02:34 AM
This is a good topic! I will have to write more when I am not so tired.
At least at my club:
1. Get rid of rap. Most 50 plus customers have never heard of Westside Connection and don't want to.
2. Hire CLASSY dancers - it is not necessary to finger yourself onstage for free or for a dollar (What dancers do today for a dollar I would never have even thought to do for a hundred.)
3. Since we went BYOB and are considered a 'private club', make it age 25 and up.
4. Get rid of 'late girls'. Girls who show up late consistantly need fired. I have routinely been the only dancer for the first hour. Customers won't come in for one dancer - let alone spend.
5. Get rid of 'deal makers'. If you want to dance for less money; go elsewhere.
Bridgette
05-28-2004, 02:53 PM
Anyway, this was a post for the LADIES to discuss what WE thought would improve matters in clubs. Did you get that?
No I didnt get that,either did a few other "guys" sprinkled into this"conversation".Maybe because the original post wasnt directed towards males or females.
Try sludging back thru the bullshit,your supportive peons,and the bad quotations,if you read lil's first post on this topic,you will see she didnt direct it towards anyone but the entire forum.
shame on you Lil.
And guess what,if you really read it all again,you "might'find the part where you tossed the first cowpie in my direction for merely stating my opinion.
It seems you only want submissive men ,and females that agree with you involved in your conversations.
Sorry sweety,the world doesnt revolve around you.(it does however orbit my god like penis on 24 hour intervals )
There are so many other boards,Oprah,breast feeding mothers,femmi nazi's r us,etc etc that you may find to be more to the queens liking,i suggest these all to you for your enjoyment.
Funny. Your first post quoting me (at least the attempt to use the quote feature) was slinging 'bullshit' directly. This is getting really redundant as you have done a poor job of answering the POINTS I was making, and just resort to personal mud-slinging. I sure did make some smartass remarks. I do that sometimes. However the attitude you display is that which you so nastily accuse ME of having - only want everyone to agree with you and can't look at anything from any other perspective but your own. Get over yourself already.
Btw. Everyone knows that any guy who has to make so many comments about the size of his penis really has a teeny weeny.
Bridgette
05-28-2004, 02:57 PM
*le sigh*
And he can't even demonstrate a moderate level reading comprehension.
Yes. Most 8th graders can do better.
catfly
05-28-2004, 03:14 PM
Yeah right. That's why the managers all have better homes and cars. Look for sympathy elsewhere.
Im not looking for anything.I gots mine!
here is the pay scale that is common around the country.
clubs-they make the most,only the owner knows how much.
dancers-most make 100-250k per year.cash
dj-most make between 75-150k per year.cash
bartenders-300-400 a night,3-4 shifts a week.cash
general mgrs-between 40-100k a year depending on the club(before taxes)
waitresses-between 2-400 a night.3-4 shifts a week(cash)
mgrs400-500 a week(usually 70 hours a week,before taxes)
door/floor people-50 bucks a night plus tips.
see why nobody cares to hear a dancer piss and moan about not making money???
I'd like to know what dancer makes that kind of money. Currently I average about $150 night between the $300 nights and the $50 nights. So, that would be about $39,000/year IF I worked 5 nights a week, 52 weeks a year.
Bridgette
05-28-2004, 03:22 PM
The obvious real world difference between the hair salons and the strip clubs is that the vast majority of hair salon owners live up to their responsibilities. In contrast, the majority of strip club owners seem to shirk these responsibilities for a variety of reasons ranging from pure greed to favoritism of one independent contractor versus another to not giving a shit ! The flip side of real world difference is that the vast majority of independent hair stylists understand the costs incurred by the upscale salon owner (because they have considered the costs involved in opening their own shop and buying their own equipment) and don't dispute the payment of 'rent' to the upscale salon owner in exchange for being provided access to ready customers and the necessary equipment, while a majority of dancers arguably do not understand the need/desire of a club to collect a portion of dancer's customer receipts in exchange for providing the building, the bar, the stage and sound system, the advertising etc. as well as the access to ready customers necessary for the dancer to ply her trade.
I have often used the hair salon analogy when discussing SC house fees. I have to say, that perhaps if more owners were more diligent with their responsibilities as owners, it's likely that fewer dancers would have such a problem with paying to work. I understand very well why I pay to work, but sometimes it irks me when I happen to be in a club that suffers from SC-owner-itis.
In my current club I'm happy to pay the fees to work there. They are on top of things and they do alot of advertising and special promotions to get and keep customers coming. I'm also happy to pay the staff tipouts since for the most part everyone works their asses off and fully deserve their tips. In most clubs though, this is definitely NOT the case. It sucks that so many clubs continue on that negative track, because it only means bad news for the industry in general as a result.
DancerFriend
05-28-2004, 03:35 PM
"I'd like to know what dancer makes that kind of money. Currently I average about $150 night between the $300 nights and the $50 nights. So, that would be about $39,000/year IF I worked 5 nights a week, 52 weeks a year."
That sounds right in line with the vast majority of dancers I know make, maybe even a little higher than average.
Djoser
05-29-2004, 04:18 AM
Ladies, it is impossible to have a REAL conversation with someone who has such an overinflated ego that he can't read well enough to comprehend which 30% we're talking about or even stay on point...
I'd like to add that it would be great if owners would avoid hiring their lazy, unemployed, skill-less family members to manage their clubs. I have worked some clubs where this was the case, and it was ALWAYS disastrous. Hire a real manager please.
Hell, yes. Actually, the clubs I have worked in have universally had assholes and morons working as managers--entirely unrelated by blood to the assholes and morons who owned them, and they were much worse clubs for it. Most of what is wrong with this business is without question due to greed and stupidity on the part of ownership and management.
Sure I have worked with some real freaks who called themselves dancers--some of whom literally scared away the crowd we had built up when they came onstage--but guess who hired them, and kept them on?
Who the fuck is this BigGreenMnM? Jesus, if he doesn't fit the stripclub DJ stereotype. Generally this comes from working in a profession which requires very little talent, sensitivity, or intelligence, a generous helping of arrogance, and an inability to shut the f**k up.
Good God, I thought I got a bit too verbose sometimes...
Bridgette
05-29-2004, 04:36 AM
LOL DJ, I was waiting for your response. :laughing: