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erotictonic
05-29-2004, 04:37 AM
Ladies, it is impossible to have a REAL conversation with someone who has such an overinflated ego that he can't read well enough to comprehend which 30% we're talking about or even stay on point...

I'd like to add that it would be great if owners would avoid hiring their lazy, unemployed, skill-less family members to manage their clubs. I have worked some clubs where this was the case, and it was ALWAYS disastrous. Hire a real manager please.


Hell, yes. Actually, the clubs I have worked in have universally had assholes and morons working as managers--entirely unrelated by blood to the assholes and morons who owned them, and they were much worse clubs for it. Most of what is wrong with this business is without question due to greed and stupidity on the part of ownership and management.

Sure I have worked with some real freaks who called themselves dancers--some of whom literally scared away the crowd we had built up when they came onstage--but guess who hired them, and kept them on?

Who the fuck is this BigGreenMnM? Jesus, if he doesn't fit the stripclub DJ stereotype. Generally this comes from working in a profession which requires very little talent, sensitivity, or intelligence, a generous helping of arrogance, and an inability to shut the f**k up.

Good God, I thought I got a bit too verbose sometimes...




LMAO. I stayed out of this mess, because it's like banging your head against the wall. But yea, you pegged him as the neanderthal he truly is there, dj. Hey, thank God all the djs aren't like him...... ;)

Topaz
05-29-2004, 07:56 AM
if i were a dancer...the perfect club for me would be where i could make bank dancing on the stage...and not have to do lap dances (or air dances - depending on location)...and where the art on my body wouldn't be a problem...and club staff wouldn't expect to get half your earnings in tip outs every night...and there's a variety of dancers...etc...

since men are visual creatures...there's no need to get up close and personal right....look but don't touch...that's the ticket...

(yeah...i know...i'm dreaming...but a girl can dream can't she...)

BigGreenMnM
05-29-2004, 08:43 AM
Yeah right. That's why the managers all have better homes and cars. Look for sympathy elsewhere.

Im not looking for anything.I gots mine!
here is the pay scale that is common around the country.

clubs-they make the most,only the owner knows how much.
dancers-most make 100-250k per year.cash
dj-most make between 75-150k per year.cash
bartenders-300-400 a night,3-4 shifts a week.cash
general mgrs-between 40-100k a year depending on the club(before taxes)
waitresses-between 2-400 a night.3-4 shifts a week(cash)
mgrs400-500 a week(usually 70 hours a week,before taxes)
door/floor people-50 bucks a night plus tips.

see why nobody cares to hear a dancer piss and moan about not making money???
I'd like to know what dancer makes that kind of money. Currently I average about $150 night between the $300 nights and the $50 nights. So, that would be about $39,000/year IF I worked 5 nights a week, 52 weeks a year.


Im not sure where you are,or your level attained as an entertainer,but if you tell me what state your in,I can suggest a hell of a lot better options for you then 50-300 a night.
If you are willing to relocate,im sure many many people on this forum can also suggest greener pastures for your future as an entertainer.

BigGreenMnM
05-29-2004, 08:52 AM
Ladies, it is impossible to have a REAL conversation with someone who has such an overinflated ego that he can't read well enough to comprehend which 30% we're talking about or even stay on point...

I'd like to add that it would be great if owners would avoid hiring their lazy, unemployed, skill-less family members to manage their clubs. I have worked some clubs where this was the case, and it was ALWAYS disastrous. Hire a real manager please.


Hell, yes. Actually, the clubs I have worked in have universally had assholes and morons working as managers--entirely unrelated by blood to the assholes and morons who owned them, and they were much worse clubs for it. Most of what is wrong with this business is without question due to greed and stupidity on the part of ownership and management.

Sure I have worked with some real freaks who called themselves dancers--some of whom literally scared away the crowd we had built up when they came onstage--but guess who hired them, and kept them on?

Who the fuck is this BigGreenMnM? Jesus, if he doesn't fit the stripclub DJ stereotype. Generally this comes from working in a profession which requires very little talent, sensitivity, or intelligence, a generous helping of arrogance, and an inability to shut the f**k up.

Good God, I thought I got a bit too verbose sometimes...




Gosh,the endless stream of peons and minions....

Ok,just what dont you agree with???
Name one point,except the size of my dick that i have said that is wrong?

can you???
Or will you just be another "yes"woman for this queen B??
I would like for you to take notice of the number of people reading this thread,its a bunch huh??
Im guessing most agree with what i have said,its only the ones holding firm to the apron strings of this wanna be forum ruler who disagree.
And BTW,they dont disagree with the points,those are all correct,they only disagree with the person willing to tell them the truth upfront.
Odd huh???
anyways,the biotch seats are over there behind the queen,please be seated and sit silent till she beckons you again.

BigGreenMnM
05-29-2004, 09:05 AM
"I'd like to know what dancer makes that kind of money. Currently I average about $150 night between the $300 nights and the $50 nights. So, that would be about $39,000/year IF I worked 5 nights a week, 52 weeks a year."

That sounds right in line with the vast majority of dancers I know make, maybe even a little higher than average.

wow,this is the second person who has said they make the 50-300 dollar range.Thats not exceptible in my book,if it is in your book,more power to you.
DONT COME TO THE CLUB I WORK AT,but get the hell outta there!
If you dont belive there is a better world out there for entertainers,well i cant change your mind.
Talk to the other people on the board,they can or should be able to suggest many great clubs around the country where girls call a 300 dollar night a "slow"night,doesnt matter the day of the week.

Just so you know,
500-1000 a night
3-5 nights a week
that comes out to 150-250K a year,CASH.

Come to the expo in Vegas,you CANT NOT get a better paying gig from all the people recruiting there.
Hell,if you making that kind of money and your a quality entertainer,I would rather you went to the comp and made whats YOURS then stay where you are for what your making.

Tigerlilly
05-29-2004, 11:17 AM
How about, and I only know of one club that has done this [DancerWealth trained the entire club], but actually implement dancer training - doesn't have to be something specific as DancerWealth or another of the seminars we have on here, but something? Even a walk-through by a [good] dancer would be helpful.


I think job training would make everybody earn more $. Owners and Staff

The club I spent most of my career dancing in did quarterly full staff meetings.

We learned basic table ettiquette- this was a full 4/5 star menu and full bar club where dancers made a pretty penny from dinner and conversation. Other times we'd have a rules and laws refesher course. Sometimes we'd learn "uptime features". Each meeting would include some golden nuggets on closing the sale .

I was really impressed by this when I first started stripping. coming from a prof. dance background.

I tried to implemt all these details and had few, if any truely bad nights because of those meetings. It wasn't until the club changed ownership that things began to drop- I think not having those meetings had ALOT to do with things too. :-\

Bridgette
05-29-2004, 01:33 PM
Tigerlilly I too remember the days of dancer training and real meetings where mgmt discussed things like ettiquette and closing the sale or important changes. All newbies were given a total training course by the housemom and set up with a friendly veteran who could help with other questions the newbie had.

Now if there's a meeting at all (in my experience) they simply read through the rule book (to the girls who showed up, generally the ones who already know and follow the rules) while waiting for the primadonnas to show up an hour late. The same primadonnas who show up late for work night after night, bring in drugs, bitch at everybody, pick fights and always have trouble paying fees because they have so many fines. At the end of which we all have to sign forms confirming we showed up and wasted an afternoon for nothing because everything goes right back to the same old grind as soon as the meeting is over. I guess most owners/mgmt finally realized how unproductive THAT type of meeting is and scrapped the whole thing altogether because few clubs have meetings at all anymore.

And forget about newbie training. The only thing most newbies get now is a run-through on rules (only the rules the mgr finds important enough to tell them, not ALL the rules), maybe a quick walk-through of where the DJ booth, dressing room and lockers are, and they're thrown out on the floor to figure it all out for themselves. With that crappy excuse for training it's really no wonder so many girls fall prey to raincoaters, drug dealers and assholes so quickly. It's also no wonder so many girls don't last more than a few months in the biz.

Some 'better' clubs won't even hire newbies at all anymore because god forbid, they might have to train the poor girls a little before throwing them on the floor. So in some cases these girls are stuck getting their training at lesser clubs where they often get schooled in the wrong way and then they're set up for endless BS right from the start.

It SUCKS that so many club owners and managers fail to see what they're doing to their own industry.

erotictonic
05-29-2004, 02:19 PM
44. Dressing rooms should include a cubicle for each girl.

polecat
05-29-2004, 02:43 PM
if i were a dancer...the perfect club for me would be where i could make bank dancing on the stage...and not have to do lap dances (or air dances - depending on location)...and where the art on my body wouldn't be a problem...and club staff wouldn't expect to get half your earnings in tip outs every night...and there's a variety of dancers...etc...

since men are visual creatures...there's no need to get up close and personal right....look but don't touch...that's the ticket...

(yeah...i know...i'm dreaming...but a girl can dream can't she...)
Actually, no dreaming involved. What you have described is what is known as Go-Go dancing, and pretty popular in a few regions.

Go-Go clubs usually have as many as 4-5 mini-stages, and money is made simply for dancing 4-5' from a group of customers, then collecting tips. Cage go-go clubs are even cooler since you perform 5' away from customers, and inside a barred cage. What's really nice is most Go-Go clubs are also not even nude/topless, but fully clothed/bikini.

Great, but very energetic work! The few Go-Go dancers I've known come home very, very tired since the night is almost non-stop dancing. Once you climb out of one cage, you usually only have another 10-15 minutes before you have to climb into another cage and repeat a 3-5 song set in another section of the club... this is how you make good earnings since your "stage show" is almost back to back all night. Also, music is non-stop and there isn't much music choice. All the women Go-Go dancing have to dance to the same tune being played throughout the club, so it means learning to dance for stuff that you may not be too fond of for music.

Just thought I'd throw that in there. If you've been aspiring to get into dancing, Topaz- you might want to see if there is a Go-Go club somewhere in your area and look that way. It's really a wonderful entry into the big world of exotic dancing.. AND it has a bigger emphasis on the stage/performance aspect.

Katrine
05-29-2004, 02:52 PM
Monty, Go Go dancing money is shit. Its a fun job if you're a club kid, but the drunk guys WILL harrass her, probably even more so than a stripper since they know she isn't going to come down and give them a lapdance.

If you want to make $100 a night MAX and get some excersice AND can geal with drunk men hitting on you from afar....then do it!

Audioslave, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the idea of a practice pole in the dressing room....I hate trying new tricks while customers watch me mess it up, hehe!

DancerFriend
05-29-2004, 03:12 PM
"14. No couples allowed to dance suggestively or make out in the club. The show is on stage. People caught gropping one another are given one warning. Second warning, you're outta here!"

I can't think of anything I hate more in a club than when some guy's wife/girlfriend gets "so hot" that she has to stand up and dance.

I've even seen girls do it right at the stage while a girl is in the middle of her routine. For some reason the bouncers seem to ignore it no matter how much it messes with the dancer's routine. I wish the DJ would pause the music and tell her to sit her rolly-polly ass down whenever it happens.

Bridgette
05-29-2004, 04:43 PM
Audioslave, when I first started dancing in 1995, the club I worked, Maiden Voyage in New Orleans, had about 2/3 of the items on your list. It was a damn nice place to work and customers were happy to go to such a nice place with so many quality girls.



I can't think of anything I hate more in a club than when some guy's wife/girlfriend gets "so hot" that she has to stand up and dance.

I've even seen girls do it right at the stage while a girl is in the middle of her routine. For some reason the bouncers seem to ignore it no matter how much it messes with the dancer's routine. I wish the DJ would pause the music and tell her to sit her rolly-polly ass down whenever it happens.

Most of us dancers feel the same way. Girls, if you're not working at that club at that moment, sit your ass down!

Lexi
05-29-2004, 09:52 PM
Are some of the posts deleted? lol They are hard to follow.

CrescentLuna
05-30-2004, 02:22 AM
That's an awesome list, though there is no way my tiny-ass upstate NY club could support that!
a lot of the suggestions we COULD implement though.
Ugh, I'm so tired of having to use the customer bathroom!
More later, possibly, it's only 5:30am...

Djoser
05-30-2004, 02:24 PM
Ok,just what dont you agree with???
Name one point,except the size of my dick that i have said that is wrong?



So you are bullshitting about your dick? That doesn't surprise me in the least.

Actually, I DO agree with you about a couple of things, amazingly enough. Like these statements:

"Most employees last 6 months in this business."

"Even if you add in the bad door guy or valet...add 30 entertainers and a good dj,we will make money..."

"If the entertainer does make money,so should her support staff.
Ever have a waitress send a customer your way for a lapdance???She doesnt deserve half,but she sure as shit deserves a tip from you."


But most of all, I agree with you here...

"dam,ok i still dont got it figured out yet."

You can't spell, write, or compose a coherent statement--but nonetheless you won't ever shut the fuck up.

BigGreenMnM
05-30-2004, 05:15 PM
Ok,just what dont you agree with???
Name one point,except the size of my dick that i have said that is wrong?



So you are bullshitting about your dick? That doesn't surprise me in the least.

Actually, I DO agree with you about a couple of things, amazingly enough. Like these statements:

"Most employees last 6 months in this business."

"Even if you add in the bad door guy or valet...add 30 entertainers and a good dj,we will make money..."

"If the entertainer does make money,so should her support staff.
Ever have a waitress send a customer your way for a lapdance???She doesnt deserve half,but she sure as shit deserves a tip from you."


But most of all, I agree with you here...

"dam,ok i still dont got it figured out yet."

You can't spell, write, or compose a coherent statement--but nonetheless you won't ever shut the fuck up.




Why are you so hung up on my dick size??
It seems the ladies know the flaming is over,yet you dont???
You keep comming back to the size of my penis??

Im sorry to say,the size doesnt matter,im not going to swap spit with ya or take warm showers with you in the pale moonlight,i dont swing that way.
The last thing anyone needs on this board is someone hitting on someone else.
so please,im not gay,look elsewhere.

I was wondering how you fit into the tea party so well.
Oh well,to each his own.
Just please,try to describe the points on which I was wrong,or can you???
Im sorry if my animal mag-ni-ti-zum was to strong for you and diverted your attention away from the actual topic at hand.

catfly
05-30-2004, 07:03 PM
"I'd like to know what dancer makes that kind of money. Currently I average about $150 night between the $300 nights and the $50 nights. So, that would be about $39,000/year IF I worked 5 nights a week, 52 weeks a year."

That sounds right in line with the vast majority of dancers I know make, maybe even a little higher than average.

wow,this is the second person who has said they make the 50-300 dollar range.Thats not exceptible in my book,if it is in your book,more power to you.
DONT COME TO THE CLUB I WORK AT,but get the hell outta there!
If you dont belive there is a better world out there for entertainers,well i cant change your mind.
Talk to the other people on the board,they can or should be able to suggest many great clubs around the country where girls call a 300 dollar night a "slow"night,doesnt matter the day of the week.

Just so you know,
500-1000 a night
3-5 nights a week
that comes out to 150-250K a year,CASH.

Come to the expo in Vegas,you CANT NOT get a better paying gig from all the people recruiting there.
Hell,if you making that kind of money and your a quality entertainer,I would rather you went to the comp and made whats YOURS then stay where you are for what your making.



I am in Columbus, OH. And no, I don't want to relocate. 5 years ago, this kind of money was unacceptable. 5 years ago, I was making at least $250 a night during the week, and $500 and up on the weekends. But, since 9/11, and the bad economy, this is normal for now. And, yes, I could make more money if I did 'extras'. Or went to another club where 'extras' are the norm. However, I am an entertainer; not a hooker. And I don't think a 10 hour commute by plane to Vegas daily is something that can happen for me.

DancerFriend
05-30-2004, 07:57 PM
One of my friends goes to Vegas sometimes. She talks about earning $1000 a night sometimes, but I think that is usually when a convention is going on. But I also know of other dancers who have gone to Vegas for a weekend and made almost nothing.

There have even been a couple of times where one of my friends has headed off to Vegas for a weekend because "things are slow and she heard it was good there" and I end up chatting with a dancer from Vegas that very same weekend who has come out here because "things are slow and she heard it was good here."

polecat
05-30-2004, 08:05 PM
Monty, Go Go dancing money is shit.
Go go dancing cash is on the "shit" scale from the perspective of dancing careers, but it's substantially better than flipping burgers or waiting tables!

A fairly cute go-go dancer making $80-$120 a shift will usually get similar harassment waitressing for $45 a shift (after taxes) at some diner or restaurant... and no 4' rule at Dennys. lol.



drunk guys WILL harrass her, probably even more so than a stripper since they know she isn't going to come down and give them a lapdance.
The behavior of the patrons is directly proportional to the enforcement by club security/bouncers. I know of a few Go-Go style clubs where abusive patron behavior is not tolerated in the slightest.. but by the same token, the dive-hole go-go clubs are like a mens locker room inside of vulgarity... so it's not always a given.

BigGreenMnM
05-31-2004, 04:52 AM
"I'd like to know what dancer makes that kind of money. Currently I average about $150 night between the $300 nights and the $50 nights. So, that would be about $39,000/year IF I worked 5 nights a week, 52 weeks a year."

That sounds right in line with the vast majority of dancers I know make, maybe even a little higher than average.

wow,this is the second person who has said they make the 50-300 dollar range.Thats not exceptible in my book,if it is in your book,more power to you.
DONT COME TO THE CLUB I WORK AT,but get the hell outta there!
If you dont belive there is a better world out there for entertainers,well i cant change your mind.
Talk to the other people on the board,they can or should be able to suggest many great clubs around the country where girls call a 300 dollar night a "slow"night,doesnt matter the day of the week.

Just so you know,
500-1000 a night
3-5 nights a week
that comes out to 150-250K a year,CASH.

Come to the expo in Vegas,you CANT NOT get a better paying gig from all the people recruiting there.
Hell,if you making that kind of money and your a quality entertainer,I would rather you went to the comp and made whats YOURS then stay where you are for what your making.



I am in Columbus, OH. And no, I don't want to relocate. 5 years ago, this kind of money was unacceptable. 5 years ago, I was making at least $250 a night during the week, and $500 and up on the weekends. But, since 9/11, and the bad economy, this is normal for now. And, yes, I could make more money if I did 'extras'. Or went to another club where 'extras' are the norm. However, I am an entertainer; not a hooker. And I don't think a 10 hour commute by plane to Vegas daily is something that can happen for me.


I had the pleasure of opening a bar for Dick Clark out in Columbus Ohio many years ago.The demographics for that city were great!Most people dont look at that city as having alot of expendable cash,but it does.
Im sorry the economy is causing such a crunch for you.Now with gas at almost 2 bucks a gallon and milk at double that,I think we all have felt it.
The good news is that our business always always goes up during wars or armed conflicts,so says history,not me.

I wasnt talking about commuting to Vegas everyday,I was talking about attending the stripper expo this year so you can find a club somewhere in the country that is doing well.
Im also not suggesting you do "extras".
Is there another club close to you that is doing well?Can you relocate there?
I wish you the best.

Djoser
05-31-2004, 05:36 AM
dam,ok i still dont got it figured out yet...


Im an audio stimulation transfer engineer(thats MR. DJ to you).Im not only "IN"the trenches,I RUN THEM.Sorta like a trench god so to speak. ;D...

...if pointing out that your wrong and im right is high and mighty,then so be it,i dont have a problem with that.

...I missed any points you made correctly,they must have been covered in bullshit and i didnt see them.



You asked me "to describe the points on which I was wrong".

Well the first statement is even more obviously correct.

But these other statements are false--and thats just from one of your interminable, illiterate diatribes.

You are not a god. You are not right and they are wrong. You can't see anything if you are blinded by the torrents of your own bullshit.

And further--calling someone a faggot or a bitch, while quite safe when done from the shelter of your computer terminal a thousand miles away, doesn't convince anyone of the validity of your opinions, or your manhood.

BigGreenMnM
05-31-2004, 05:49 AM
dam,ok i still dont got it figured out yet...


Im an audio stimulation transfer engineer(thats MR. DJ to you).Im not only "IN"the trenches,I RUN THEM.Sorta like a trench god so to speak. ;D...

...if pointing out that your wrong and im right is high and mighty,then so be it,i dont have a problem with that.

...I missed any points you made correctly,they must have been covered in bullshit and i didnt see them.



You asked me "to describe the points on which I was wrong".

Well the first statement is even more obviously correct.

But these other statements are false--and thats just from one of your interminable, illiterate diatribes.

You are not a god. You are not right and they are wrong. You can't see anything if you are blinded by the torrents of your own bullshit.

And further--calling someone a faggot or a bitch, while quite safe when done from the shelter of your computer terminal a thousand miles away, doesn't convince anyone of the validity of your opinions, or your manhood.


for kripes sake dude,wtf???
let it go.
do some yoga or something.
Did you actually use the word diatribes??? lolololololol
was that to impress the forum???

Again,you have not shown me anything that i have said about this business that was wrong or misleading.
You seem to harp on sarcastic remarks i have made.

Gonna try again though....

(please read slow)
what have i said about this business thats wrong?




(BTW,im in Richmond Va,easy to find.Im also on the road alot,so I can even deliver myself in front of you if you feel you need to discuss things in person.)

catfly
05-31-2004, 10:30 AM
I had the pleasure of opening a bar for Dick Clark out in Columbus Ohio many years ago.The demographics for that city were great!Most people dont look at that city as having alot of expendable cash,but it does.
Im sorry the economy is causing such a crunch for you.Now with gas at almost 2 bucks a gallon and milk at double that,I think we all have felt it.
The good news is that our business always always goes up during wars or armed conflicts,so says history,not me.



FYI - Dick Clark's American Bandstand Grill has been closed for over a year. I think someone got shot in the parking lot, or something like that. I can't remember now.
And no, no club in Ohio is doing any better.

I noticed you are in Richmond, VA. I checked out the clubs there, and they are contact clubs. I prefer to work with no contact. Just because the economy is different now than 5 years ago, I should not have to do contact in order to survive. I would prefer to make less money with no contact than to feel horrible about myself.

BigGreenMnM
05-31-2004, 05:10 PM
I had the pleasure of opening a bar for Dick Clark out in Columbus Ohio many years ago.The demographics for that city were great!Most people dont look at that city as having alot of expendable cash,but it does.
Im sorry the economy is causing such a crunch for you.Now with gas at almost 2 bucks a gallon and milk at double that,I think we all have felt it.
The good news is that our business always always goes up during wars or armed conflicts,so says history,not me.

FYI - Dick Clark's American Bandstand Grill has been closed for over a year. I think someone got shot in the parking lot, or something like that. I can't remember now.
And no, no club in Ohio is doing any better.


Wow that really sucks.It was a very well done nightclub.Would you happen to Know Mary Lynn,she was the bartender who could toss and spin bottles,sure would like to get in touch with her for a job offer if you can give me any leads.



Its T bars and pasties.There is a 3 foot law on stage.Lapdances are contact,booty shorts and top on,but no touching.Its just a regular lapdance,no frills or extras.The only extras you can get are the 250 which is topsless for 20 mins,same no touching rule.
Some girls dont like to give lapdances,some do,its all personal choice and i dont hold anything agaist either decision,just as I dont for girls who dance full nude or with g strings.Its all choice.
I will say I dont know of alot of clubs where the girls make great money without lapdances as part of it,they exist,but few and far between.

Djoser
05-31-2004, 09:21 PM
Did you actually use the word diatribes??? lolololololol
was that to impress the forum???

Again,you have not shown me anything that i have said about this business that was wrong or misleading.
You seem to harp on sarcastic remarks i have made.

...what have i said about this business thats wrong?



Yes, I did. You said "Im not only "IN"the trenches,I RUN THEM.Sorta like a trench god so to speak..."

Wrong.

The DJ can make or break a club, but any DJ who grants himself divine status is seriously misunderstanding his role in the business, and therefore, inherently--the nature of the business itself. It's generally the least intelligent DJs who are guilty of this, and the same who give SC DJs a bad name.

But here's more...

Bridgette says "Treat staff and dancers with a modicum of respect and humanity.", and your reply is...

"sorry,I dont mean to sound harsh,but bullshit!!!!"

This again shows what a fucked-up attitude you have, and once again, inherently (sorry about the big word, Timmy), your fundamental misunderstanding of what is wrong with the business today. As does the following comment of yours...

"In this business its the fast buck.Its what you live for and so do I."

Wrong. It's easy to make money from sexually-oriented entertainment, but a lot more profit would be realized if owners, managers--and cocky, asshole DJs such as yourself who suck up to them--would utilize sound business practices, such as employee and customer satisfaction, instead of trying to leech as much money as possible from both. This tendency is manifested most glaringly in the following policy, which you espouse...

"door/floor persons..the wait staff,all live on what the dancers tip them"

The owners of these clubs manage to avoid paying any employees by having the dancers pay them instead: as if they aren't making enough money on inflated drink prices, cover charges, dancer fees, and percentage of lap dance fees. Once again this is greed and short-sighted business practice in action, which eventually close so many of these clubs.

"we aint the brightest candle on the cake.We go where there is the most females."

Speak for yourself, you moron. I have worked in clubs who believed more dancers, regardless of their appearance, meant more profits and happier customers; and clubs where high standards were used--the latter were much easier places to build and hold a crowd. Most clubs would benefit from greater selectivity.

"As i said in the initial post,
done the same job,at a lower cost.get the same part??"

What the hell are you trying to say? You can't write. This makes no sense whatsoever, proving once again you are a fucking moron. As evidenced by the following...

"...strippers piss me off and get in the way of real entertainers..."

Obviously they piss you off, since you show so little respect to them on a forum created for their use.

"As i have clearly stated,im still around for my god like penis,not my business savy,or my grammer.I dont misspell words on the mic and i dont talk about shit i dont know about."

And you accuse me of being obsessed? Noone hires a DJ because of his dick. I do agree you aren't being hired for your "business savy,or your grammer [sic]". BTW, how do you mispell a word on the mic?

" Only bad thing is,he sends me as the dj to open them.I wonder why???"

Yes, it probably is a bad thing, especially for the poor dancers that have to work with you. He probably sends you because you eat generous portions of his shit out of his ass.

"...anyone who has ever been a club mgr or owner knows what im talking about.Maybe us peons dont see that."

What the hell? You can't write. You are a fucking moron.

Ok, I'm tired of this shit, and I have better things to do than try to decipher the rest of your drivel, like hang out with my girlfriend.

Maybe it would be better to just use the "ignore" feature, anyways.

Bridgette
05-31-2004, 11:45 PM
BigGreenMnM says:
As i have clearly stated,im still around for my god like penis

Only bad thing is,he sends me as the dj to open them.I wonder why???


Yes, it probably is a bad thing, especially for the poor dancers that have to work with you. He probably sends you because you eat generous portions of his shit out of his ass.



DJ, I gotta disagree with ya on this point. I think the illiterate BigGreen is trying to say the owner keeps him around because owner likes BigGreen's penis. One can only imagine how this now infamous male owner came to be so in love with BigGreen's penis....can we say "bun-cutter"?

BigGreenMnM
06-01-2004, 06:44 AM
Did you actually use the word diatribes??? lolololololol
was that to impress the forum???

Again,you have not shown me anything that i have said about this business that was wrong or misleading.
You seem to harp on sarcastic remarks i have made.

...what have i said about this business thats wrong?




Yes, I did. You said "Im not only "IN"the trenches,I RUN THEM.Sorta like a trench god so to speak..."

Wrong.

The DJ can make or break a club, but any DJ who grants himself divine status is seriously misunderstanding his role in the business, and therefore, inherently--the nature of the business itself. It's generally the least intelligent DJs who are guilty of this, and the same who give SC DJs a bad name.
Gosh,you got such a grip on this business.I dont know how i lasted this long without your guidance and big words.Maybe im not the dj god,and you are???Maybe i have been wrong all these years thinking I was a dj god when YOU were actually the dj god.
Just so you know,I run the show when the night starts.I make changes during the night as i see fit.I decide who goes up and when and to what music.
This means I run the trenches.Im sorry if you dont run yours.
Does this mean im a god???nahhhhhhhhh
so again,The statement wasnt wrong,you just want to harp on the god part.
silly boy,it was sarcasim.
Get past this god thing and see that your statement says the same thing i did(only not so many huge words)


But here's more...

just as i suspected,I think your hung up on me.I think you rush home at night just to see what i have said.
Odd huh???


Bridgette says "Treat staff and dancers with a modicum of respect and humanity.", and your reply is...

"sorry,I dont mean to sound harsh,but bullshit!!!!"

This again shows what a fucked-up attitude you have, and once again, inherently (sorry about the big word, Timmy), your fundamental misunderstanding of what is wrong with the business today.

This has nothing to do with my attitude skippy.I didnt invent it,and i dont condone it,I just know it exists.Im not ascared of telling it like it is,regardless if the forum tea party nazi's agree or not.
Again,The statement i made was correct.(or queen B wouldnt be bitching about it right?)



As does the following comment of yours...

"In this business its the fast buck.Its what you live for and so do I."

Wrong. It's easy to make money from sexually-oriented entertainment, but a lot more profit would be realized if owners, managers--and cocky, asshole DJs such as yourself who suck up to them--would utilize sound business practices, such as employee and customer satisfaction, instead of trying to leech as much money as possible from both. This tendency is manifested most glaringly in the following policy, which you espouse...

oh kripes,you sound like a 3 year old.
We are all here for the fast buck,entertainers,dj's,mgrs,staff and anyone else who gets into this business.
I can admit it.You cant.
Its greed that brings MOST people to this game,not visions of curing the world from some disease.
What brought you to the game???was it the fast buck??
Or did you enter this world just so you could use words like "espouse"???You dont really use that word in everyday conversation right???please say you dont.Have you used that word twice this year or was it held in reserve waiting for me???


"door/floor persons..the wait staff,all live on what the dancers tip them"

The owners of these clubs manage to avoid paying any employees by having the dancers pay them instead: as if they aren't making enough money on inflated drink prices, cover charges, dancer fees, and percentage of lap dance fees. Once again this is greed and short-sighted business practice in action, which eventually close so many of these clubs.


And this is all my fault???
lolololol your a riot!!!!!!
Again,we have said the same thing skippy.
I didnt invent it.
Im just not afraid to call a spade a spade.




"we aint the brightest candle on the cake.We go where there is the most females."

Speak for yourself, you moron. I have worked in clubs who believed more dancers, regardless of their appearance, meant more profits and happier customers; and clubs where high standards were used--the latter were much easier places to build and hold a crowd. Most clubs would benefit from greater selectivity.


Im still waiting for you to show me something about this business that i have said,that was wrong.
Im still waiting.
I cant force you to belive basic bar/restaurant 101 rules of the game.
Females are the foundation of our business,the more the better.sadly,I didnt invent this theory either.If i did,i would have got a patent on the words"Ladies Night".



"As i said in the initial post,
done the same job,at a lower cost.get the same part??"

What the hell are you trying to say? You can't write. This makes no sense whatsoever, proving once again you are a fucking moron. As evidenced by the following...


cronic ebonic,its a disease.We are trying to get Jerry to add us to the telethon,those cripples are just going to have to share the donations ifn ya wants us ebonicers ta gets better.

I will try it again just for you.

Its the American way.If you can find someone to do the same job,at the same level of satisfaction,yet at a lower price....
Most will go with the lower price for the same job done.

are you going to disagree with this again????
even when it was said so you could understand it???
You say i cant write,im not going to disagree.But even you must admit,you read right,what i "didnt"write right??



"...strippers piss me off and get in the way of real entertainers..."

Obviously they piss you off, since you show so little respect to them on a forum created for their use.

well,i consider the term stripper as a bad one,full of coni ,conitation ,conatatio, cwap,full of bad vibes man.
I prefere the term entertainers,because thats what they are in my opinion.
Of course this is just a personal thing for me,i dont expect you to call all your strippers entertainers.

I prefre strippers to act like entertainers rather then entertainers acting like strippers.



"As i have clearly stated,im still around for my god like penis,not my business savy,or my grammer.I dont misspell words on the mic and i dont talk about shit i dont know about."

And you accuse me of being obsessed? Noone hires a DJ because of his dick. I do agree you aren't being hired for your "business savy,or your grammer [sic]". BTW, how do you mispell a word on the mic?

again you harp on my penis.I have tried to ask nice,let it go,its not for you.
And just how do you know i wasnt hired because of that??Just maybe i have it trained to push play buttons or to hold the mic just right?How do you know im not using it right now to hit the space bar??
Hey that could be da problems with my spelling!!!!!
Its da penis fault.dats my story and im dicking to it.



" Only bad thing is,he sends me as the dj to open them.I wonder why???"

Yes, it probably is a bad thing, especially for the poor dancers that have to work with you. He probably sends you because you eat generous portions of his shit out of his ass.

wrong answer hero.
He sends me because he knows once i give my word to open a club,i would die before i let it fail.
its kinda like an obsession with me.
Girls love working with me,THEIR show is the only reason im there.They know im not there to screw them,they know im not there just to "hook up"an addiction.
Do i get flak from some???sure,we all do.Dont you??


"...anyone who has ever been a club mgr or owner knows what im talking about.Maybe us peons dont see that."

What the hell? You can't write. You are a fucking moron.

even when taken out of context,i can understand what this means.Im sorry you cant.
Who is a moron?


Ok, I'm tired of this shit, and I have better things to do than try to decipher the rest of your drivel, like hang out with my girlfriend.

yet you decipher every post i have written,skipping over the pertanent facts of this business,and harp on sarcastic remarks made to a spoiled forum brat??
odd huh????Maybe just maybe,you DONT have anything better to do as evidenced over the last few days of "deciphering".
My only hope is that when you remove your head from your ass,you will take the time to really read what i have said.You may learn something.


Maybe it would be better to just use the "ignore" feature, anyways.
no way,its to late,your my forum bitch now.I got you hook line and sinker ya wiggly lil scamp.

:bullwhip:
I own you biotch!

erotictonic
06-01-2004, 08:38 AM
BigGreen,

Regardless of what you reply to me or anyone else, your bad attitude is very, very apparent. You don't like us very much, and yes, I think you are a probably a pain in the ass to work with, and you more-than-likely abuse your power. You seem to be on a power trip. DJ pegged it right. And you are a smart ass to boot. If you give a shit about what others think, I would try and knock those chips off your shoulder bro.

You have an attitude and opinions that are tasteless and insensitive. You sound like some of the neanderthal club owners and managers I've dealt with. If that's what you want to portray, be my guest, but don't expect for any of us to like you.

I call it like I see it, and regardless of what you want to believe, every other entertainer in the world would see it the same way, along with the service employees and the mature djs.


ET :sun:

BigGreenMnM
06-01-2004, 10:11 AM
{quote]
BigGreen,

Regardless of what you reply to me or anyone else, your bad attitude is very, very apparent. You don't like us very much, and yes, I think you are a probably a pain in the ass to work with, and you more-than-likely abuse your power.


power??
I dont have a bad attitude and I LOVE my job.I get to work in an art gallery everyday!I get to see some of the most beautiful females on the planet,NAKED!I get to listen to the best music of today and yesterday,I even get to meet alot of the new artist!The best part of this job is that people actually pay ME at the end of the night.can you belive that shit????
I even really like alot of the people i work with,as im assuming they like me,or they just come to my house for the beer and the pool.
Im also tipped very very well by the entertainers.I also have the top spot for djing in this state as you know because your in the area.
What power are you talking about me abusing???
Can i be a smart ass...um yup.
can i be a pain in the ass to a entertainer who isnt there to work...um yup.
can i be the best asset a entertainer can have in a club....um yup.
maybe you should have asked some of the girls i work with if they want to trade dj's.You may be surprised at what professional entertainers say about me and how they feel about working with me.
Even I admit,I dont work well with strippers.
Bring your A game or stay home.
I get paid very well by alot of entertainers who bring their A game to work,they expect me to bring mine.Strippers get in their way,my way,the clubs way,basically,they get in the way of my world and i wish they would get off before they give what we do an even worse reputation.



You seem to be on a power trip. DJ pegged it right. And you are a smart ass to boot. If you give a shit about what others think, I would try and knock those chips off your shoulder bro.

Im just the DJ,I have no magical powers???
As i have said,im a smart(_!_),i freely admit it.It helps out alot in my chosen profession.
Those are not "chips'on my shoulders,its gray hair.(ok and some dandruff)and i earned each one.Each of those gray hairs holds wisdom and lessons learned in life.
one is,fuck the bullshit.
another is,dont piss on an electric fence,doesnt matter how much money is offered.
I dont lie about what i know concerning this business,and i dont sugar coat it,or say things to bennifit myself.
As for what people think about me,dont we all care??
I have a large family and many friends around the world and that i work with,they know and care about me.As for others and those I have yet to meet,Many will come to know me and care about me also.Some wont,doesnt matter what I do or say,some just dont.Isnt that the same with you?
But no matter what,you just cant please everyone all the time(another gray haired lesson learned)
Did you know its said,by others,not me,that when you die,you will be able to count your true friends on one hand.(other old peoples gray haired lessons learned)

If you want to see a chip on a shoulder,read back over the pages and pages of this thread.Go back to the first response from me.It wasnt aimed at anyone personaly,it wasnt mean or outragouse,it was my view on the reality of the business we are in,in my words.
Next thing you know,im informed i have a bad attitude and the flamming begins.Im sorry if everyone thinks i should just take an undeserved ass chewing from a stripper and not respond.
Her tea party friends jumped in with assaults to my spelling,quoting abilities and the like,never debating the business points to any degree,only the typical bullshit people on forums use to screw with posters who they dont want at "their"tea party.again im sorry if you thought i wasnt going to go on the defensive.


You have an attitude and opinions that are tasteless and insensitive. You sound like some of the neanderthal club owners and managers I've dealt with. If that's what you want to portray, be my guest, but don't expect for any of us to like you.

If your sensitive,im guessing your not going to like this industry.Grow your protective skin like the rest of us and stop acting like an 18 year old prom queen.
Im not trying to sound like a club owner,and im sorry you and others have to deal with bad ones,they run rampant in this industry.The sooner you figure that out the better.Great owners and mgrs are few and far between.Chances are if you do this for any length of time,you will only meet 1-2.
Im also not trying to sound like a stripper who just agrees with other strippers so she can have a comfy seat in the dressing room "clique".
Im shooting for the old guy,father of 5 girls,x dancer,x mgr,dj for almost 30 years angle.


I call it like I see it, and regardless of what you want to believe, every other entertainer in the world would see it the same way, along with the service employees and the mature djs.
Where do i get an aplication or the permits needed so I too can "call it like I see it"??
Or is it only you and a few on this forum who can??

A_Guy
06-01-2004, 10:16 AM
Goobledegook


What clubs do you work at? I'll make it a mental note never to visit those.

BigGreenMnM
06-01-2004, 10:17 AM
DJ, I gotta disagree with ya on this point. I think the illiterate BigGreen is trying to say the owner keeps him around because owner likes BigGreen's penis. One can only imagine how this now infamous male owner came to be so in love with BigGreen's penis....can we say "bun-cutter"?


Ok i got the quote thingy kinda,sorry it took so long for me to get it right.mabee Eye is illterate. ::)
What i would like to learn next is the picture thingy.I see you and others have got their pics next to their names,can ya teach me how to do that??

A_Guy
06-01-2004, 10:20 AM
DJ, I gotta disagree with ya on this point. I think the illiterate BigGreen is trying to say the owner keeps him around because owner likes BigGreen's penis. One can only imagine how this now infamous male owner came to be so in love with BigGreen's penis....can we say "bun-cutter"?


Ok i got the quote thingy kinda,sorry it took so long for me to get it right.mabee Eye is illterate. ::)
What i would like to learn next is the picture thingy.I see you and others have got their pics next to their names,can ya teach me how to do that??


Hit Alt+F4 at the same time. Shoud allow you to add pictures

erotictonic
06-01-2004, 10:29 AM
{quote]
BigGreen,

Regardless of what you reply to me or anyone else, your bad attitude is very, very apparent. You don't like us very much, and yes, I think you are a probably a pain in the ass to work with, and you more-than-likely abuse your power.


power??
I dont have a bad attitude and I LOVE my job.I get to work in an art gallery everyday!I get to see some of the most beautiful females on the planet,NAKED!I get to listen to the best music of today and yesterday,I even get to meet alot of the new artist!The best part of this job is that people actually pay ME at the end of the night.can you belive that shit????
I even really like alot of the people i work with,as im assuming they like me,or they just come to my house for the beer and the pool.
Im also tipped very very well by the entertainers.I also have the top spot for djing in this state as you know because your in the area.
What power are you talking about me abusing???
Can i be a smart ass...um yup.
can i be a pain in the ass to a entertainer who isnt there to work...um yup.
can i be the best asset a entertainer can have in a club....um yup.
maybe you should have asked some of the girls i work with if they want to trade dj's.You may be surprised at what professional entertainers say about me and how they feel about working with me.
Even I admit,I dont work well with strippers.
Bring your A game or stay home.
I get paid very well by alot of entertainers who bring their A game to work,they expect me to bring mine.Strippers get in their way,my way,the clubs way,basically,they get in the way of my world and i wish they would get off before they give what we do an even worse reputation.



You seem to be on a power trip. DJ pegged it right. And you are a smart ass to boot. If you give a shit about what others think, I would try and knock those chips off your shoulder bro.

Im just the DJ,I have no magical powers???
As i have said,im a smart(_!_),i freely admit it.It helps out alot in my chosen profession.
Those are not "chips'on my shoulders,its gray hair.(ok and some dandruff)and i earned each one.Each of those gray hairs holds wisdom and lessons learned in life.
one is,fuck the bullshit.
another is,dont piss on an electric fence,doesnt matter how much money is offered.
I dont lie about what i know concerning this business,and i dont sugar coat it,or say things to bennifit myself.
As for what people think about me,dont we all care??
I have a large family and many friends around the world and that i work with,they know and care about me.As for others and those I have yet to meet,Many will come to know me and care about me also.Some wont,doesnt matter what I do or say,some just dont.Isnt that the same with you?
But no matter what,you just cant please everyone all the time(another gray haired lesson learned)
Did you know its said,by others,not me,that when you die,you will be able to count your true friends on one hand.(other old peoples gray haired lessons learned)

If you want to see a chip on a shoulder,read back over the pages and pages of this thread.Go back to the first response from me.It wasnt aimed at anyone personaly,it wasnt mean or outragouse,it was my view on the reality of the business we are in,in my words.
Next thing you know,im informed i have a bad attitude and the flamming begins.Im sorry if everyone thinks i should just take an undeserved ass chewing from a stripper and not respond.
Her tea party friends jumped in with assaults to my spelling,quoting abilities and the like,never debating the business points to any degree,only the typical bullshit people on forums use to screw with posters who they dont want at "their"tea party.again im sorry if you thought i wasnt going to go on the defensive.


You have an attitude and opinions that are tasteless and insensitive. You sound like some of the neanderthal club owners and managers I've dealt with. If that's what you want to portray, be my guest, but don't expect for any of us to like you.

If your sensitive,im guessing your not going to like this industry.Grow your protective skin like the rest of us and stop acting like an 18 year old prom queen.
Im not trying to sound like a club owner,and im sorry you and others have to deal with bad ones,they run rampant in this industry.The sooner you figure that out the better.Great owners and mgrs are few and far between.Chances are if you do this for any length of time,you will only meet 1-2.
Im also not trying to sound like a stripper who just agrees with other strippers so she can have a comfy seat in the dressing room "clique".
Im shooting for the old guy,father of 5 girls,x dancer,x mgr,dj for almost 30 years angle.


I call it like I see it, and regardless of what you want to believe, every other entertainer in the world would see it the same way, along with the service employees and the mature djs.
Where do i get an aplication or the permits needed so I too can "call it like I see it"??
Or is it only you and a few on this forum who can??





Hey, I stand by what I said previously. And believe me, I'm tough as nails.... no 18 year old prom queen here, honey. You don't know of my background. I learned my lessons the hard way. I know what I'm dealing with.... but I don't have to like it or think it's right. And if you knew me, you would know that I don't say anything unless I believe it.... I don't give a rat's ass about any cliques. I am compassionate and understanding, but I know how to take care of myself, and I know when I come in contact with a selfish asshole. Yes, you do have a bad attitude. You are the one who needs to reread your posts. No one here is ganging up, we are only responding individually to what's given.

BigGreenMnM
06-01-2004, 10:29 AM
What clubs do you work at? I'll make it a mental note never to visit those.


I work at the club where its professional entertainers who make alot of money and nobody has the time for bullshit.

BigGreenMnM
06-01-2004, 10:44 AM
No one here is ganging up, we are only responding individually to what's given.

Are you sure???
With almost 2000 reads on this thread???
Its just a handful of people tossing insults and stirring the pot so to speak.You can tell who we are by the post that deal with anything but the topic at hand.
There have been a few sprinkled responses that have been on topic,and seem to make sense,pretty much saying the same things i did,but for the most part,its a handful of people who disagree with what my opinions on this business are,and how much they dislike my typing or spelling skills,basically,bullshit.
Like im to blame for what is being said???
I dont own the business,I dont own the clubs,and i dont own the entertainers or the rest of the staff in this business.


At this point of the thread,I would tell everyone NOT to agree with anything i have said!!!
The flamming they would get would be as deserved as the one im getting.

I wonder how many of the 2000 agree with my assessment of the industry?
Im wondering how many of the 2000 have been flammed by this tea party as well for similer bullshit?

Im thinking more then you would like to admit.

erotictonic
06-01-2004, 11:01 AM
No one here is ganging up, we are only responding individually to what's given.

Are you sure???
With almost 2000 reads on this thread???
Its just a handful of people tossing insults and stirring the pot so to speak.You can tell who we are by the post that deal with anything but the topic at hand.
There have been a few sprinkled responses that have been on topic,and seem to make sense,pretty much saying the same things i did,but for the most part,its a handful of people who disagree with what my opinions on this business are,and how much they dislike my typing or spelling skills,basically,bullshit.
Like im to blame for what is being said???
I dont own the business,I dont own the clubs,and i dont own the entertainers or the rest of the staff in this business.


At this point of the thread,I would tell everyone NOT to agree with anything i have said!!!
The flamming they would get would be as deserved as the one im getting.

I wonder how many of the 2000 agree with my assessment of the industry?
Im wondering how many of the 2000 have been flammed by this tea party as well for similer bullshit?

Im thinking more then you would like to admit.


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but NO ONE agrees with your point-of-view! You are an alien! :alien: Just being honest... not meaning to flame. The reason why everyone agrees with Bridgette is because she is right! There is no tea party involved here! Your arguements are UNREASONABLE and frankly, I can't understand where in the hell you are coming from on a lot of issues.... it is just alien bro.... insensitive, and completely irrational. This IS how it is..... sorry to burst your bubble. As far as the people watching the thread, people like to see drama around here. Alot of them just don't feel like participating for one reason or another.

BigGreenMnM
06-01-2004, 11:11 AM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but NO ONE agrees with your point-of-view! You are an alien! :alien: Just being honest... not meaning to flame. The reason why everyone agrees with Bridgette is because she is right! There is no tea party involved here! Your arguements are UNREASONABLE and frankly, I can't understand where in the hell you are coming from on a lot of issues.... it is just alien bro.... insensitive, and completely irrational. This IS how it is..... sorry to burst your bubble. As far as the people watching the thread, people like to see drama around here. Alot of them just don't feel like participating for one reason or another.


dam your stubburn.
ok sweety,lets dance.

Name one thing i have said on this thread about the industry that isnt true.

Name one thing or join the others that are just watching for the "drama"of it all,if you join in the flamming without adding to the topic,your part of the tea party clique.

Now step up and back up your views with your years of experience.
name one thing.

BigGreenMnM
06-01-2004, 11:19 AM
The reason why everyone agrees with Bridgette is because she is right!
Everyone???All 2000???
She may know how to do the quote thingy better then me,and she may know how to put her picture next to her name on this forum,thats doesnt make her right about this industry.
And i must have missed "everyone agreeing'with her.All i really saw was her tea party comming to her defense by attacking my spellin skills.I guess people forgot to agree with her huh???

Again,what has been said by me about this industry that she has proven me wrong at???
nada
nothing
zip
zilch

erotictonic
06-01-2004, 11:45 AM
There's no point in dredging up all the ridiculous comments you've made... you didn't get it the first time, and you're not going to get it now. If you really are this stupid, I feel sorry for you. The fact that you think you are winning is just sad. Like I said, no flaming here, just being honest. I think now I will throw you in the box with AMERICAN and Zoey, maybe in 20 years. I'm out......


ET :sun:

erotictonic
06-01-2004, 12:02 PM
DJ, I gotta disagree with ya on this point. I think the illiterate BigGreen is trying to say the owner keeps him around because owner likes BigGreen's penis. One can only imagine how this now infamous male owner came to be so in love with BigGreen's penis....can we say "bun-cutter"?


Ok i got the quote thingy kinda,sorry it took so long for me to get it right.mabee Eye is illterate. ::)
What i would like to learn next is the picture thingy.I see you and others have got their pics next to their names,can ya teach me how to do that??


Hit Alt+F4 at the same time. Shoud allow you to add pictures





:rotfl: I love it!

A_Guy
06-01-2004, 06:37 PM
:rotfl: I love it!


;D

It took him 4 or 5 tries to realize what was going on ;)

erotictonic
06-01-2004, 06:59 PM
:rotfl: I love it!


;D

It took him 4 or 5 tries to realize what was going on ;)


LMAO. I thought it would be more..... :D

BigGreenMnM
06-02-2004, 05:34 AM
:rotfl: I love it!


It took him 4 or 5 tries to realize what was going on ;)


LMAO. I thought it would be more..... :D


I thought you were going to answer the question???I guess not.
Thanks for proving my point.

and the alt f4 thingy,that was funny 10 years ago on aol,not now.Do people still fall for that?

Tina
06-02-2004, 07:57 AM
I don't want to get in the midst of an argument and that is why I haven't responded as yet.

Big Green comes across to me as a club owner in disguise. And his attitude about most of what he is posting is vastly different than that of dancers. Granted, many dancers are a pain in the ass to manage and deal with, but with no training what do you expect?


As far as dancers are concerned many don't look at this situation from both sides. And the only way club owners would be receptive to compromising with us is if we compromise with them.

Also many large club owners have a hardball approach of running this business. And many of these owners tell their managers to hire who you would fuck.

Also customers are not given the same kind of customer service in a strip club as they would get at a fine restaurant or department store.

Add to that a morale problem with djs valets, bartenders, waitresses, and housemoms because virtually everyone in a club is paid off of dancers tips for the most part and the customers many times are squeezed out of the club.

If this industry were accepted like others are, the solution to this problem would be to have club mediators who would work much like union reps in setting up conditions that both sides could live with.

But when the majority of dancers don't see dancing as a career and are ashamed to tell the world what they do, and many of the customers are closet strip club goers as well, how can a fight to change the way this industry is treated occur?

And with dancers viewing this as just "quick money", and with no appearance and sales training, and with many club owners having an underworld background and attitude, the majority of clubs will never be close to perfect.

As far as dancers making so much money, in SOME clubs earnings are higher than average, but those few clubs are flooded with girls once the word gets out and then once the customers feel excessively hustled in them the business starts to drop off.

What range of money Catfly says she makes, $50-$300, is about the norm in about 90% of clubs around the country. Here and there a girl might make $500-$1000. Most dancers exaggerate their earnings and most don't work 5 days a week week in and week out so they will tell you about their $500 or more nights but not about the ones where the club was slow and there were more dancers than customers.

So Big Green $100,000-$250,000 a year ain't happenin'. Most of these girls don't work enough days to make that kind of money if they did make $500+ a night.

Also Big Green, in the upper Midwest and Montana there are lots of clubs with 5-10 dancers per night. They are the ONLY club in a town of 20,000-160,000 people or maybe there is one other of equal size and they bring in 50-150 customers per night and many pay road girls $300-$400 per 6 day week and have different girls booked each weekly only rebooking girls monthly to give guys variety, so in smaller cities these clubs do well.

A club with 10 girls in a town of several million people obviously couldn't compete so understand that clubs differ by city and population.

So when there are 40 customers in the club and 76 dancers, and 1/2 of the customers are under 25 in groups, which is the case in MANY clubs all around the country today, where does the money come from to tip all the staff $10 when obviously every customer didn't spend enough for every girl to even get her house fee back let alone $500? Why should the dancer have to take money out at the ATM to cover a dj if she hasn't made it? The club owner should cover the slack and drop the house fee on slow nights as some clubs do.This is like a commission business. Why should a DJ make $300-$400 for the night when the average dancer take was only $75? Granted he should be paid, but not as much.

Clubs are hiring too many girls for revenue purposes and the business won't support them and then the staff is hungry because the girls don't make enough to tip them.

Granted legal issues caused alot of these problems, but treating dancers with a work here under our terms or get the fuck out attitude is not going to improve things.

Club owners must change their attitudes and train and monitor each dancer and employee, plus make the clubs more fun to be in for staff and customers.


Big Green , try looking at this from a dancer and a customer standpoint. And dancers look at this from the owner, club staff, and customer viewpoint as well.

IF owners would be willing to do this and IF dancers would be willing to attend club meetings and get training, some headway COULD be made here. SOME smaller to medium sized clubs in cities without powerhouse competition are doing this. But good luck on getting the big Deja Vu's and mafioso clubs run by Vinnie and the boys to change their attitude in dealing with their businesses.


:-\

BigGreenMnM
06-02-2004, 09:53 AM
Big Green comes across to me as a club owner in disguise. And his attitude about most of what he is posting is vastly different than that of dancers. Granted, many dancers are a pain in the ass to manage and deal with, but with no training what do you expect?
Im not an owner.I dont "disguise'who I am,what I think, where i am,or what i do.
I expect professionalism from entertainers,nothing more,nothing less.They expect me to offer the same in return.
They do have training schools,they have training videos you can also buy.
Most girls who come into this business are young and broke.They cant afford the video let alone the school.
Most are tossed into this and its sink or swim.
I didnt invent this induction ritual,and i think you would have a hard time pointing to the "owner"who did.



Also many large club owners have a hardball approach of running this business. And many of these owners tell their managers to hire who you would fuck.

I agree with this theory.If your a customer,so do you,even if you dont want to admit it.
You would NOT continue to go to a club that was full of entertainers that you would NOT "fuck".
You can tell this forum that you would go to the clubs just to talk to "nice"girls,but even the strippers know your full of shit if you say that.
We sell a fantasy.Most men dont have a fantasy about "fucking"ugly entertainers.


Also customers are not given the same kind of customer service in a strip club as they would get at a fine restaurant or department store.

This would depend on the club.For the most part i agree with you.Most clubs dont.
I do know a club where all the staff are in tuxedo's and you can order filit mignon and crabcakes off the menu.We can also offer at some of the clubs a fine 30 year old single malt for your enjoyment.
Again,it depends on the club.


Add to that a morale problem with djs valets, bartenders, waitresses, and housemoms because virtually everyone in a club is paid off of dancers tips for the most part and the customers many times are squeezed out of the club.
If there is a moral problem,the fault doesnt lie on the shoulders of the staff you mentioned.The blame belongs to the mgr of the club.If he has a staff and there is a moral problem,his job is to fix it and make sure it never happens again.
If you got 1 shitty valet,he should be trained correctly,or given the Donald Trump.
If you walk into a club,any club,your going to find one or two people having a shitty day.Thats life.Thats far from a moral problem.


If this industry were accepted like others are, the solution to this problem would be to have club mediators who would work much like union reps in setting up conditions that both sides could live with.

They call that mediator a housemom in our world.
It will never be possible for both sides to be equals at the bargining table until BOTH sides are legal and on the books.
Right now more then half of the entertainers working in this country are working as an illegal.(we all know its more like 90%)
Entertainers give up sooooooo many of their rights due to the fact they are not legal subcontractors.
This is why they ALL must eat the shit some owners are dishing out.Eat or walk,their choice.
Most have no legal recourse because they are working illegal.

If you really want to help this industry,on the side of the entertainers,get all the ones you know to get on the books as a sub contractor!
This is the best thing anyone can do for the industry as a whole in my opinion.



But when the majority of dancers don't see dancing as a career and are ashamed to tell the world what they do, and many of the customers are closet strip club goers as well, how can a fight to change the way this industry is treated occur?
The only way is for the girls to become legal.I didnt say a stupid friggin union,thats been tried and failed.Each entertainer MUST act as a sub contractor,as a business woman.
The amount of money a top entertainer can make is staggering.


And with dancers viewing this as just "quick money", and with no appearance and sales training, and with many club owners having an underworld background and attitude, the majority of clubs will never be close to perfect.
I agree.
But I would also add this.Thank god for this business.
I have seen it offer many options to females around the world that had very few options when they walked thru the doors the first time.



What range of money Catfly says she makes, $50-$300, is about the norm in about 90% of clubs around the country. Here and there a girl might make $500-$1000. Most dancers exaggerate their earnings and most don't work 5 days a week week in and week out so they will tell you about their $500 or more nights but not about the ones where the club was slow and there were more dancers than customers.
I disagree 100%.
I hate hearing stories of girls who think 50 dollars a night to take your clothes off is ok.In my book it is not.
if you excluded all the upscale clubs,all the mid range gentlemens clubs,then and only then would i agree on your 90% figure.
If you have a bad night and only take home 50 bucks,oh well,shit happens.
If you take home 50 dollars more then once a month,somethings wrong!!!!
It may be the entertainer,it may be the club,but something is wrong!
A girl can make more then that staying home on the internet as a chat hostess.


So Big Green $100,000-$250,000 a year ain't happenin'. Most of these girls don't work enough days to make that kind of money if they did make $500+ a night.
it happens in front of me daily.And its been that way for alot of years.
You may not have alot on this board admit to what they make,its really none of our business,but i will try to break it down for you for debates sake.
If an entertainer works 5 nights a week makes 1000,at the end of those 5 days she has 3000-5000 dollars,thats alot of pesos.
If she works 5 nights a week and only does 500 each night,thats 2500.Thats 125,000 a year(minus the two weeks in the bahamas vacation)
Now lets look at the 300 dollar a night girls who work 5 nights a week,thats 75,000 dollars a year,working 50 weeks a year.
Most people in this country dont make that.90% of the world doesnt make that kind of money.

Right or wrong,Money is power in this world.
Entertainers have the money,if they would just get legal,they would have the power.


Also Big Green, in the upper Midwest and Montana there are lots of clubs with 5-10 dancers per night. They are the ONLY club in a town of 20,000-160,000 people or maybe there is one other of equal size and they bring in 50-150 customers per night and many pay road girls $300-$400 per 6 day week and have different girls booked each weekly only rebooking girls monthly to give guys variety, so in smaller cities these clubs do well.
Not ment as an insult,but those clubs are little league clubs.The earning potential there is and always will be low.
They are a great way for some to learn this business.
Then when they want to make real money(more then 75,000 a year)most entertainers who can make the cut move to areas with higher populations and major league clubs.


A club with 10 girls in a town of several million people obviously couldn't compete so understand that clubs differ by city and population.
Yes they do,we agree.
But,
a club with 10 dancers in a town with several million people will be swallowed up by a chain club that will offer 50-80 girls.


So when there are 40 customers in the club and 76 dancers, and 1/2 of the customers are under 25 in groups, which is the case in MANY clubs all around the country today, where does the money come from to tip all the staff $10 when obviously every customer didn't spend enough for every girl to even get her house fee back let alone $500? Why should the dancer have to take money out at the ATM to cover a dj if she hasn't made it? The club owner should cover the slack and drop the house fee on slow nights as some clubs do.This is like a commission business. Why should a DJ make $300-$400 for the night when the average dancer take was only $75? Granted he should be paid, but not as much.

First off,you never know what a dancer really makes.You can count her lapdances,even count her money the moment she gets off stage,but you still wont know how many regs just slipped her 100 just for sitting with them etc etc.You never know what she makes,only she does.
Second.seeing dancers outnumber customers happens all the time during the night.If it happens ALL night,and everynight,its time to look for another club because this one is in trouble.Not the dancers fault.
There is never a slow night if you have customers.If one entertainer isnt making money,you can bet your ass some others are!
If 5 entertainers have a great night,but the other 5 have a shitty night,is the glass half empty or full????
And yes,slow night or not,they should tip their DJ and staff.They might not be able to tip alot,but walking out with no tip is just bad news.The staff knows if its been slow or not.Most staff wont bitch when you tip them low on a shitty night.They will if you dont tip them at all.


Clubs are hiring too many girls for revenue purposes and the business won't support them and then the staff is hungry because the girls don't make enough to tip them.

Key words being revenue purposes.
If they have the rev to support more girls,then they should.
It is only dancers who view less girls as more money.


Granted legal issues caused alot of these problems, but treating dancers with a work here under our terms or get the fuck out attitude is not going to improve things.

they are the foundation of all the problems.Until this changes,it wont improve as some wish,because it doesnt have to.


Club owners must change their attitudes and train and monitor each dancer and employee, plus make the clubs more fun to be in for staff and customers.
Again,they dont have to.
These are the same guys most are talking down about,these are the owners that even you say are with the mob and underworld.
What makes you think they will just hand over the control of the business to the entertainers??
This is the same list of arguments that have been around for as long as I have been in this business,friggin ages!!!!
It wont change until the entertainers change it,to do that they must be legal first.Then THEY will call the shots!
The only thing an entertainer can hope for now is a clean club with staff that dont try to fuck her physically and monetarily every night.



Big Green , try looking at this from a dancer and a customer standpoint.
I really try to.This is how i feed my kids and pay my bills,its very important to me.Thats why I look at this from every angle i can,so i can see problems that will hurt my money far in advance.
My opinions are formed from all of these angles.


IF owners would be willing to do this and IF dancers would be willing to attend club meetings and get training, some headway COULD be made here. SOME smaller to medium sized clubs in cities without powerhouse competition are doing this. But good luck on getting the big Deja Vu's and mafioso clubs run by Vinnie and the boys to change their attitude in dealing with their businesses.

Again,im going to have to defend Deja Vu.
They have wonderful clubs full of some of the best entertainers in the country.Some are even here on this forum!
The clubs are clean,safe,and for the most part well run.
Its a wonderful place for entertainers to start their career and learn the way of the future for this industry.
Then when they get really good,and want to make more money,they can come and work for us!!!!!!!!

Melonie
06-02-2004, 03:11 PM
Right or wrong,Money is power in this world.
Entertainers have the money,if they would just get legal,they would have the power.

True, but as you pointed out a fairly large percentage of dancers underreport their income (and some don't report their income at all). If these dancers "get legal", they're going to see their take-home earnings cut in half as they wind up paying federal and state income tax plus self-employment tax on every dollar. A potential 25% earnings improvement through forced clubowner changes is still a losing proposition compared to paying out 50% of their incomes in taxes that they currently avoid.

You're also correct that many clubowners play off the fact that many dancers are "illegal" either in regard to taxes or citizenship/legal work status. Many clubowners also play off the fact that there are dancers knocking on the club's front door every single night who are ready and willing to take the place of any dancers who are dissatisfied (in any club with decent earnings potential anyhow).

I have to agree that the relevant point about clubowners changing their outlook is that they don't HAVE to in order to keep their club running, and it would cost them money to do so out of the graciousness of their greedy little hearts.

The bottom line is that as long as there are some dancers who are willing to put up with clubowner bullshit in exchange for decent short term earnings potential, clubowners will never be forced to make changes.

Djoser
06-02-2004, 04:37 PM
The dancer and owner's aims are not so at odds that nothing could ever be done to ensure that all are benefited. At the very least, some changes could be implemented for the mutual satisfaction of all parties. Perfection is not achievable, but in these trying times it is pleasant to think about- and that was my point.


And a good one. There is so much wrong with this business, and it doesn't have to be that way.

The guy who founded Federal Express developed it as a school project. They told him it couldn't be done.

As Tina points out, in one of the more rational posts on this thread, " But good luck on getting the big Deja Vu's and mafioso clubs run by Vinnie and the boys to change their attitude in dealing with their businesses."

Deja Vu takes one third of all lap-dance money, makes the dancers pay 10$ house fee, and forces them to do 2 for 1 dances on a regular basis all night long. This means that dancers are expected to give lap dances for 7$, which is robbery, plain and simple. At best they will make 13$.

I used to scoff at the assertion that the Mafia was still a large presence in the business, but now I know better. Though it may not be Vinnie and the boys, but Russians, bikers, or drug-dealers instead. Not all clubs, but enough to matter to the industry and the way it's run.

I have worked with plenty of the kind of unprofessional, flaky, whacked-out bitches that give dancers a bad name, and give owners and managers justification for retaining the outrageous policies in effect in so many clubs. But there are enough exceptional women in the business to overcome this problem, and a lot of them are right here on this forum.

I didn't get into this business for "the fast buck". Greed may be the motivating force behind this business for most, but it's also what is wrong with it. If owners, managers, dancers, and DJs could actually join together and open a club operating on a basis of customer and employee satisfaction, that club could be more successful than the ones that assign such a low priority to it.

What Tina says makes a lot of sense, that management and dancers should endeavor to meet halfway. Of course, it IS an uphill battle--but I am not so sure it is impossible to win.

Green, as far as your last reply--I am tired of arguing with you. If you want to say you win, fine-you win, whatthefuckever. I agree that it is a waste of my time to bother with you any further.

BigGreenMnM
06-02-2004, 05:20 PM
As Tina points out, in one of the more rational posts on this thread, " But good luck on getting the big Deja Vu's and mafioso clubs run by Vinnie and the boys to change their attitude in dealing with their businesses."

Deja Vu takes one third of all lap-dance money, makes the dancers pay 10$ house fee, and forces them to do 2 for 1 dances on a regular basis all night long. This means that dancers are expected to give lap dances for 7$, which is robbery, plain and simple. At best they will make 13$.

again,I would have to defend the Vu.This guy is sounding more and more like a disgruntled ex employee.
Im sorry you dont see the bennifits of the 2-1's.Its ment to get a roomfull of people to buy lapdances all at once.
1.the club makes money.
2.the dancers make money.
3.the staff has a half empty room they can clean and bus.This sets them up for more money.
4.the customer gets a lapdance at half price.
I dont see where anyone looses on a 2-1.The real winner is the entertainer.She has just had a customer delivered to her in the VIP room,now if she keeps him back there for 4-5 lapdances,she really wins.
Thats the goal of the 2-1,its to shake up a room and get things flowing.

There are alot of people who dont make the cut at Deja Vu.
Its kinda sketchy to come on a forum and then bash the club.




I didn't get into this business for "the fast buck".

Bullshit mother Teresa,lemmie guess,you entered only to save souls?





Green, as far as your last reply--I am tired of arguing with you. If you want to say you win, fine-you win, whatthefuckever. I agree that it is a waste of my time to bother with you any further.

Nope sorry,as afore mentioned,your now my forum bitch.You leave the conversation when i say. :bullwhip:

Katrine
06-02-2004, 05:49 PM
I didn't get into this business for "the fast buck".

Unfortunately, Djoser, you are in the minority with that opinion. the SC industry is ALL about immediate profit maximization. No one cares about time-value of money, capital investment long-term, shareholder value, market cap, P/E ratio, dividends,etc....or any of the starndard business metrics...

........except for corporate outlets like Deja Vu and Ricks. We don't see any of those companies making a move to make dancing better for dancers, and they are the industry trend. I don't see a great future here. I am perfectly happy to take the money and run NOW!!

velvet
06-02-2004, 09:31 PM
look big green. djoser is not a disgruntled ex employee. he is a respected and long time member here at stripperweb. he has had tons of great and practical advice for both dj and dancer. he's been in the business for a long time as well. for you a newbie at stripperweb to come on here and constantly bait he and bridgette is unacceptable and rude. we are for the most part a well rounded civil group. please stop this stupid flame baiting.

p.s at least they dont use the non word ascared...