View Full Version : The Perfect Club
CrescentLuna
06-03-2004, 12:14 AM
My club has "pay the cover get a free VIP" on Monday and Tuesday. The girls get $5 from this. It does suck, but most of the other girls have demanded high tips from guys, so usually ends up as $25/dance rather than $40/dance for the guy. Works for him - I basically only lose out on five.
So, it CAN be good, but I've also done hordes of $5 dances without a tip, and that is kind of sucky. Sometimes I can manage to string them into paying for another, but sometimes it the excuse the bar is looking for to sell a few extra beers. Yeah, I'm $5 richer on those days, but sometimes grinding against some grabby jerk for a lousy $5 is just worse than most else.
Djoser
06-03-2004, 01:02 AM
Nope sorry,as afore mentioned,your now my forum bitch.You leave the conversation when i say.
Wrong again, you ignorant cocksucker.
You are blocked--there will be no more conversation between us, and you may now continue to alienate the entire forum without distraction.
Knock yourself out...
BigGreenMnM
06-03-2004, 05:40 AM
look big green. djoser is not a disgruntled ex employee. he is a respected and long time member here at stripperweb. he has had tons of great and practical advice for both dj and dancer. he's been in the business for a long time as well. for you a newbie at stripperweb to come on here and constantly bait he and bridgette is unacceptable and rude. we are for the most part a well rounded civil group. please stop this stupid flame baiting.
p.s at least they dont use the non word ascared...
Ok.Im done if they are.
It was becomming way to easy anyways.
As for the stripper web welcomeing committee,i would elect new ones,those two suck at excepting new people with thier own opinions.
I would dig up dear abby for advice before i went to them.
Jay Zeno
06-03-2004, 06:04 AM
Indeed, sophomoric baiting and crying intolerance while practicing it is all too easy.
I've disagreed with Bridgette as often as I've agreed, and we remain friends here. How can that be? And the welcoming committee is more accepting of people who don't come in yelling and pissing on the furniture.
This thread has drifted far, far off from the topic. Let's hope for a lockout and move on to other threads, where the suggestions have been far less abrasive and far more beneficial.
Big Green, I understand the benefits of 2/1 dances. I woeked at 2 clubs who were hugely successful with them. One in Indianapolis and the other in Yuma AZ.
When guys aren't buying dances 2/1's are a great stimulus. In Yuma the guys running the club were masters at sales. The DJ would get on the stage and any of us who hadn't sold it he would help coerce the guys into buying into everyone had.
In Indy 2/1's were at the top of each hour. And we paid $3 for a 2/1 the same as a regular dance.
In Yuma for a promo dance, buy 2 dances and get a t shirt free, the club got $10 for the shirt and we got $10. dances are $10 in AZ. And many times you can sell a guy on another song.
Great for waking up a crowd.
But Deja Vu is taking more money from the dances and giving you a drink quota plus a house fee. And they push you to sell for them and dictate how long you sit at the table. I worked for them years ago in memphis and Colorado Springs. I averaged around $250 a night clear then but never would I work for them again.
You are still hung on girls making $500-$1000 a night, Where do you work?
I have worked and been in clubs all over the country with the exception of the northeastern states and know for a FACT that the average dancer AVERAGES after tipouts in 90% of clubs anywhere between $150-$350 a day/night. of course there are the girls who work at the handful of Scores and VIPs or the world, but even after paying $200-$300 to work in those clubs or more I'll bet you 2/3 of the girls don't leave with more than $400 on any given night. Of course they have stellar nights and some girls make more.
But stellar nights and slow nights all make up the AVERAGE.
And, MOST big city clubs have waaay more dancers than business and many clubs don't have schedules and if they do dancers are limited to 3 days a week or so of work.
And I know you know the average age of the strip club customer has dropped and less and less older men are coming in the clubs. Plus most expense account spending at clubs has been limited or stopped. And law enforcement efforts to enforce no contact dance laws are stepped up now which is keeping guys from buying dances as they were has slowed the money down.
And if you aren't aware of these cities that have as many or MORE dancers than customers here goes:
Seattle, Portland, Denver, LA, Las Vegas, Reno, Sacramento,Phoenix, Tucson, Albuquerque, El Paso, Austin TX, Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, San Antonio (new no contact laws) Oklahoma City, Wichita, Kansas City, all of Florida, Memphis, Minneapolis, Ohio, Detroit (new no contact laws).
I could go on. Tons of dancers and less target customers (guys 35-65).
And you're going to have to find guys who will spend several hundred dollars several times a night and then some to make
$500-$1000 AFTER tip outs.
Girls are not making that on a REGULAR basis. They may hit $500-$600 on Monday, take off until Thursday and then only make $70 , Friday maybe $200, Saturday maybe $50, Sunday maybe $250 and so on. That's how it is now.
It doesn't matter what club you go to in a city. top clubs have more dancers and are not always busy enough to accomodate them.
In Bridgette's club (yes I know the right one), the last time I was in there as a customer some months back, a girl said she only made $23. There were 60 girls on the afternoon shift. it had been slow lately and she was thinking of staying over or going to another club to work. This is a top club but top clubs aren't always busy.
When money gets slow more girls pop in to work. Then the few customers they have get asked for dances so much that their heads spin.
EVERY big city I work in faces this problem A LOT.
You said the money potential is low in the smaller Upper Midwest clubs. That is not true. the ratio of dancers to customers is MUCH better since only a set amount of girls work. Guys have money everywhere.
I average almost TWICE what I make in Vegas or Houston in South Dakota or Montana. And other girls I work with in both places do too.
And my CONSISTENTLY best days at the upscale Houston club I work in are Sundays from opening at 1PM until 7. Why? Less girls to compete with and older customers who come into buy dances, not just hang out.
You do the math. 5-6 girls working in a small town South Dakota club and 35 customers on the floor, or 70 girls working in a Vegas club with 55 customers.
Obviously, the South Dakota club wins. There is more money to spread around in the small club plus you have some regulars. Plus $400 pay for the week which comes from $5 per dance sold and a dance bonus after we sell 40-60-80-100 dances for the week. And only a $20 tip out per night vs $75+ in Vegas.
Vegas is hit and miss. With so many girls and a negative or = ratio of dancers to customers, you could work 8 hours and only talk to 10 customers. If you find a few with money mixed in with the young hanger outers who don't buy dances you may make $300-$700. and the night I hit $300 or $500, Mary, Sue, Jane and Carrie might just get their payout back and vice versa the next night. They make some money and I don't.
ALL the top clubs are like that.
That is a dancers reality nowadays. The solution, get more older customers so that there are twice as many guys as dancers. Everyone won't buy and some have more money than others.
I know you understand that, don't you?
(BY BIGBREENMNM)
oh kripes,you sound like a 3 year old.
We are all here for the fast buck,entertainers,dj's,mgrs,staff and anyone else who gets into this business.
I can admit it.You cant.
Its greed that brings MOST people to this game,not visions of curing the world from some disease.
What brought you to the game???was it the fast buck??
Or did you enter this world just so you could use words like "espouse"???You dont really use that word in everyday conversation right???please say you dont.Have you used that word twice this year or was it held in reserve waiting for me???
Ok so just because we are in it for FAST money means we dont give a shit about anything else? SO for me to show that I want to "cure" a disease, I should flip burgers or work 9 hours a day sitting at a desk?
I dont think so.
Many of us have BIGGER aspirations rather than just raking in the "fast" money and pissing it all away.
I choose to dance because I have a goal: to finish school (WAY overdue) and buy my own property. So because I choose to make the money FASTER makes me not care about other issues? I think not. I choose to be SMARTER and use my time wisely.
::)
oh and BigGreen, since when is the word diatribe and espouse a 10 point word? Some people have better vocabularies than others. Why is that everytime someone uses a word (that others probably cant even decipher) they automatically assume its that the person is trying to show off intelligence? ::) Come on now.
BigGreenMnM
06-03-2004, 11:10 AM
But Deja Vu is taking more money from the dances and giving you a drink quota plus a house fee. And they push you to sell for them and dictate how long you sit at the table. I worked for them years ago in memphis and Colorado Springs. I averaged around $250 a night clear then but never would I work for them again.
You are still hung on girls making $500-$1000 a night, Where do you work?
They have no choice.
I know the deja Vu in memphis.Its a great club that has girls driving for 3 hours just to work there.They make between 300-700 a night.ask them.(ok they used to) ::)
I just got back to Va from Little Rock Arkansas where i helped open another club for our company.I saw the demographics for the area that were done.I also stood in the dj booth for 6 months talking to the girls from as far south as San Antonio.
Ask an entertainer from North texas,south Tn. or Arkansas,they will tell you where the money is,they will tell you its the Paper moon in Little Rock Arkansas.(ok maybe they wont ,but i will lol)
You want 1000 dollar nights,there ya go,served on a silver platter.Bring your A game.
Not that this matters,but heres why.
The state has less then 10 clubs.This one is the only one in the city of little rock(the capital)Its pasties and Tbar with lapdances.
This was a dive for many years called the Prime time.Amazing what a million dollars in construction and a spit shine can do.
Its mixed drinks till 6 am.
ALL the other clubs in the city close at 2am.
This club gets a city wide "rush"at 2:30 from all the other clubs closing down that we all dream about and wish we had.
Radio,TV,and print marketing.
The club has billboards all the way to memphis.Memphise has lost 75% of its cross state traffic in the first year,and a shit load of its best entertainers to us in little rock.
They even put them on the way back from memphis,so dancers driving home would see them,and customers driving home after a few would see them.They no longer had to make the drive to memphis!It was brilliant marketing,i wish i could take credit.
You want a beautiful club?
You want to be treated as a top entertainer?
You want to make 500-1000 as a top entertainer?
You want to work for a no bullshit mgr?
you want to work for a no bullshit gen mgr?
How about an owner who you dont gotta sleep with and will see only 1-2 times a year when he flies in and stops by the club?
The music is a mix of alt rock/r&b/techno/standards.
You will like the dj's,their goal in life is to make you money,and they are dammed good at it.
Go there.Thats 1.
You want a couple more,come to Va,thats where i am,at the mothership.I can show you more.Hurry though,im bucking to go down to palm beach for the next opening this summer. :-X
I have worked and been in clubs all over the country with the exception of the northeastern states and know for a FACT that the average dancer AVERAGES after tipouts in 90% of clubs anywhere between $150-$350 a day/night. of course there are the girls who work at the handful of Scores and VIPs or the world, but even after paying $200-$300 to work in those clubs or more I'll bet you 2/3 of the girls don't leave with more than $400 on any given night. Of course they have stellar nights and some girls make more.
The girls at scores make that and more.Any care to comment who are on the forum??
Maybe i should say,girls working at large venue clubs and successful chains are making that kind of money.But as I have already said,a girls making 300 a night 5 nights a week is making an average of 75K a year.dats a buncha peso's!
But stellar nights and slow nights all make up the AVERAGE.
I agree.I always tell entertainers to count their money at the END of the week to tell how you did.
If you do
200 on wed
500 on thursday
800 on fri
1200 on sat
Thats 125,000 a year average.working only 4 days.
If you only do
500 on wed
500 on thurs
500 on fri
and 500 on sat
Thats still an average of 100,000 a year.again,4 days a week.
And, MOST big city clubs have waaay more dancers than business and many clubs don't have schedules and if they do dancers are limited to 3 days a week or so of work.
I dont know of any top entertainers looking for shifts,if you do,please send them our way.
You show me a top entertainer,one who works out,one who "works"at her chosen profession,one who is willing to relocate for her craft,one that isnt here for the drama or bullshit,I will show her to the stage.Even if its not ours,I would rather send her to the comp where she can make real money then see any entertainer work for 300 dollar "good"nights.
Top clubs/large venue clubs can and do take the pick of the litter so to speak.The pick of the liter never goes without shifts,and as many as they want.
And please dont think thats all that the company i work for hires,its not,we get the same mix as everyone else gets.Some make the cut,some dont.Some last,some dont.same same all around.
The only thing better then a top entertainer is a new entertainer trying to be a top entertainer.
We run off the addicts,hookers,and drama queens like every other chain club,we cant afford them and we cant afford to look the other way.
And I know you know the average age of the strip club customer has dropped and less and less older men are coming in the clubs. Plus most expense account spending at clubs has been limited or stopped. And law enforcement efforts to enforce no contact dance laws are stepped up now which is keeping guys from buying dances as they were has slowed the money down.
I disagree,the average age of the strip club regular is going up.Its the younger crowd that the industry cant snag.Younger generations are comming along who are not all that impressed with half naked females they cant touch.They get full naked females on the internet that they cant touch,and its a whole lot cheaper.MTV can show more then some clubs are allowed to show.
I see the industries aim in the direction of the couples now.That same regular customer,but now,the clubs are nice enough to bring his wife.With the internet flooding how kewl it is to be a swinger and the swinger lifestyle being "in style"right now,its the couples that are they target demographic in my opinion.
This is going to kill the dives and im sorry to say,the old "biker strip club"mentality clubs around the world,not just here in the states,the internet connected world.
And when owners and lawmakers come to some kind of agreement as to how local strip clubs can be on the internet,its even going to change this business more.
Its just my opinion,but i think its all going to change in the next 10 years like never before in this industry.
I also think only the bigger clubs,and the chain clubs will survive.I think 50-75% of the smaller ones will be gone in ten years.
And if you aren't aware of these cities that have as many or MORE dancers than customers here goes:
Seattle, Portland, Denver, LA, Las Vegas, Reno, Sacramento,Phoenix, Tucson, Albuquerque, El Paso, Austin TX, Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, San Antonio (new no contact laws) Oklahoma City, Wichita, Kansas City, all of Florida, Memphis, Minneapolis, Ohio, Detroit (new no contact laws).
I disagree.Those cities are great,i myself have seen the demographics on them.WONDERFUL money!Wish we could get there sooner!
They have alot of girls yes,but top entertainers have no problems getting shifts in Vegas.
All of Texas is slow right now,been that way for 20 years.We have gotten a bunch of top entertainers from the lone star state.
As for florida,i really disagree,top entertainers rake it in down there at some of the big clubs.
I know Memphis is hurting,and I know why.
As for any city thats not making money,its the same theory as people starving out in a desert,friggin move!
Go to the food,go to the money,its NOT comming to you!
(not you as in you)
Think like a pro ball player,sometimes ya gotta switch teams and cities for the big money.
And you're going to have to find guys who will spend several hundred dollars several times a night and then some to make
$500-$1000 AFTER tip outs.
I hear what your saying but i see it every night,and I will see it tonight again,even on a thursday.
I will have 15-30 girls tonight.
I know before we start that half will break 1000.
I know the rest will break 500.
We might have 1-2 that might have a bad night,but they work tomorrow where they will be one that breaks 1000.
Im not downing any clubs,at least i try not to because they have girls working there to that dont need the drama,but its very aparent in this business,if you want to make money,get out of the smaller clubs,and into the bigger ones and the chains.
will you make what i say,who knows,it doesnt matter because no matter what,you will make more then you were making in the smaller clubs.(and that includes the money you make off your "regs"at the small clubs)
Girls are not making that on a REGULAR basis. They may hit $500-$600 on Monday, take off until Thursday and then only make $70 , Friday maybe $200, Saturday maybe $50, Sunday maybe $250 and so on. That's how it is now.
Thats how its always been,and will continue to be.IMO
and by your figures,your average is over 60,000 a year.Not to shabby,not great,but still,not to shabby for a profession where most that make that dont have a degree on the wall.
Most dont own a wall to hang a degree on.
It doesn't matter what club you go to in a city. top clubs have more dancers and are not always busy enough to accomodate them.
oh i agree,then its time to leave that market and take your talents and abilities elsewhere so you can make the money you deserve as an entertainer.
In Bridgette's club (yes I know the right one), the last time I was in there as a customer some months back, a girl said she only made $23. There were 60 girls on the afternoon shift. it had been slow lately and she was thinking of staying over or going to another club to work. This is a top club but top clubs aren't always busy.
I dont know the reason why a girl made 23 dollars,i bet there is a good one.If bridg didnt make money there,her and the 60 girls would leave.All clubs are slow,if the big clubs are slow,what do you think the small ones are like?
The best odds at making money are at bigger clubs,ask bridg,thats why she is there im guessing.
I average almost TWICE what I make in Vegas or Houston in South Dakota or Montana. And other girls I work with in both places do too.
The compitition isnt as great in the smaller clubs for top entertainers as it is in Vegas.
You do the math. 5-6 girls working in a small town South Dakota club and 35 customers on the floor, or 70 girls working in a Vegas club with 55 customers.
show me the Rhino or Cheetas on a weekend night with only 55 people in it,i will kiss your ass on the vegas strip!Does that happen on a monday,sure,it does everywhere.
I know you understand that, don't you?
I understand we just had an adult debate.Thank you.
We may not agree on all the topics,but its nice to debate and discuss without all the drama.
BigGreenMnM
06-03-2004, 11:14 AM
I choose to dance because I have a goal: to finish school (WAY overdue) and buy my own property. So because I choose to make the money FASTER makes me not care about other issues? I think not. I choose to be SMARTER and use my time wisely.
Just this one paragraph says your smater then most you work with,you have a goal and your shooting at it.
Doesnt mean you dont care,it means your smarter.
BigGreenMnM
06-03-2004, 11:21 AM
oh and BigGreen, since when is the word diatribe and espouse a 10 point word? Some people have better vocabularies than others. Why is that everytime someone uses a word (that others probably cant even decipher) they automatically assume its that the person is trying to show off intelligence? ::) Come on now.
lol no you come on now!
Take a vote,even a little one of just the people on this forum.
How many have used either word in the last year??
Im guessing less then 2%.
That includes the 18 year old entertainers who had that on their exams last year.
Patroleum transfer engineer
audio stimulation transfer technition
Most people who are not trying to impress,or full of shit call them gas station attendants and dj's.
Hurry sweety,your late for the tea party.
BigGreenMnM
06-03-2004, 11:23 AM
oh and BigGreen, since when is the word diatribe and espouse a 10 point word? Some people have better vocabularies than others. Why is that everytime someone uses a word (that others probably cant even decipher) they automatically assume its that the person is trying to show off intelligence? ::) Come on now.
oh and lexi
did you have anything to add to the topic,or are you just going to rag my ass?
BigGreenMnM
06-03-2004, 11:44 AM
You made an ass of yourself. You have been appointed the Moron of the Century, congratulations jackass. And you have also made a lot of friends here.... that in itself proves your moronicism. I've made tons of friends here..... this is supposed to be a board for us to come together, share, support one another, debate respectably, and above all, make friends. You just flamed some of our oldest, most respected, and well-loved members. You haven't made friend one, in fact, quite the opposite. Unfortunately for you, karma is making sure you pay the price. Grow up, child, and learn to run with the big dogs. We don't treat each other this way.
i think not lil missy.I was an ass before i got here and will be an ass when i leave.I call it a birth defect.
Whenever im met by assholes(or thier peons),i almost instantly turn into one,its almost like a jeckyle and hyde kinda thingy.I cant help it really and im even thinking about getting treatment for it.
maybe they have a pill i can take so that when i meet up with an asshole or drama queen that will stop me from hulking into a huge festering butthole,but i doubt it.
BTW
Should i post the emails you have sent to me asking to come work here and how much you agree with what im saying?
you got the balls to stand up to them bitches bro ring a bell?
The only thing worse then someone on the other side of the fence,is someone on both sides.
I bet your hell in a dressing room also,bet its never dull or without drama.
BigGreenMnM
06-03-2004, 12:12 PM
Oh I hope you die now you neanderthal piece of trash. You god damn fucking liar. Go crawl back in the skanky dj booth you crawled out of you hopeless fucking moron.
potty mouth.
Lie?Nope,not me,ask someone who knows.I shoot straight from the hip,even if it gets me in trouble.
You can post the ones you sent to me,and my responses back to you.It wont hurt my feelings in the least bit.
Keep ragging my ass and you will loose the choice,I will forget the fact i consider myself a gentlemen,and I will post them myself.
They call that forum checkmate sweety,now back off or we can show your "cyber friends"how much you really love them.
Backstabbing isnt a pretty feature on an entertainer,even on a pretty one.
BigGreenMnM
06-03-2004, 12:43 PM
YOU GIVE TROLLS A BAD NAME.
Wrong again sweety,If I were a troll,they would give me a troll award.
I just landed you hook line and sinker,then had you stuffed and mounted(like that happens often)on the wall next to my prize largemouth bass.
Like I said,back off my ass.
Im not one of your weak ass customers that will fold at your every whim,and then give you money.HA!!!!
Im not going to candy coat my opinions or views on this business just because i want to get in your pants or join your clique.
Ask someone who knows me and works with me.I dont pay for the sins of entertainers boyfriends.If your pissed at your man,or just men in general,take it somewhere else.I only pay that dues to the woman i belong to,and the 5 girls we spawned.
BigGreenMnM
06-03-2004, 12:48 PM
Im done.lets talk about something else.
oh and BigGreen, since when is the word diatribe and espouse a 10 point word? Some people have better vocabularies than others. Why is that everytime someone uses a word (that others probably cant even decipher) they automatically assume its that the person is trying to show off intelligence? ::) Come on now.
oh and lexi
did you have anything to add to the topic,or are you just going to rag my ass?
Im not ragging on your ass... in all honesty, I dont even remember the topic at hand. I just wanted to make it clear that not everyone is "greedy" or that we all "dont care" about what goes on. I am constantly trying to help animals and kids, and I have goals. Just cause I work as a dancer doesnt mean I "dont care" or that I am "greedy"
I missed the tea party?? Noooooo!!!!!!!!!! ;D
BigGreenMnM
06-03-2004, 01:09 PM
I dont even remember the topic at hand.[/qoute]
dont worry about it,most dont.
I just wanted to make it clear that not everyone is "greedy" or that we all "dont care" about what goes on. I am constantly trying to help animals and kids, and I have goals. Just cause I work as a dancer doesnt mean I "dont care" or that I am "greedy"
Im sorry my meaning got lost in the drama and bullshit,Let me assure you i dont think that.
All my close friends work or have been in this business.
The point was,greed is what brings most to this industry,that and the fast money.
Thats not ment as an insult,i just belive it to be fact.Its what brought me here and most of the people who I have met in the many years i have remained in it.
Its not an insult.
Bridgette
06-03-2004, 02:12 PM
look big green. djoser is not a disgruntled ex employee. he is a respected and long time member here at stripperweb. he has had tons of great and practical advice for both dj and dancer. he's been in the business for a long time as well. for you a newbie at stripperweb to come on here and constantly bait he and bridgette is unacceptable and rude. we are for the most part a well rounded civil group. please stop this stupid flame baiting.
p.s at least they dont use the non word ascared...
Ok.Im done if they are.
It was becomming way to easy anyways.
As for the stripper web welcomeing committee,i would elect new ones,those two suck at excepting new people with thier own opinions.
I would dig up dear abby for advice before i went to them.
Opinions are always accepted here BigGreen, it's when you come on here shouting "bullshit" to others for their opinions while screaming "you're wrong I'm right" and claiming your opinions are the gospel, that the problems start. If you could debate in a mature and reasonable fashion, others might listen more to what you have to say. As it is, your points fall on deaf ears because all we can hear from you is screaming. Figuratively speaking of course. But surely you get the point. I can debate points with anyone, no matter how much we disagree, but I'll call BS just as quick as you can sling it.
And what on earth is all that stuff you posted on this page (replies #165, 166, 167)? You don't say who you're quoting or where it came from.....
erotictonic
06-03-2004, 03:13 PM
Hey guys, the tea party is at my house..... Long Island Iced Teas and green m-n-m's will be served. ;D WooHoo! :D
Hey guys, the tea party is at my house..... Long Island Iced Teas and green m-n-m's will be served. ;D WooHoo! :D
I am there!!! Can I bring a bag of TRIX with me? lol
*tries hard to find a bag big enough to fit her!!!*
lol
:D
erotictonic
06-03-2004, 07:31 PM
Yes! SUH-WEEEEET! I've got sexy Lexi and a hot bag of TRIX at my party.... what more could a girl want? ;) :D ;D
I'm setting the bong up.... who's first to bong a long island?????
polecat
06-03-2004, 07:50 PM
Ooooh! Can I come too? I just love M&M's!!!!!
I'm assuming these will be plain M&M's (i.e. no nuts).
erotictonic
06-03-2004, 07:57 PM
Hell Yes PC! .... you are part of the tea party. And yes, No nuts allowed! But you have to do the first bong! And bring some more guys....hot ones..... :D :D :D
BigGreenMnM
06-04-2004, 07:16 AM
And what on earth is all that stuff you posted on this page (replies #165, 166, 167)? You don't say who you're quoting or where it came from.....
The forum police removed this persons post and not mine.
Maybe it was for the best,we would have broken 13 pages on this thread for sure!
hl1986
12-01-2008, 03:03 PM
WAIT! Don't flame! :-)
I know I'm bringing back an ancient thread.. but, a) I think it's a good thread and b) I am wondering if anyone's opinion's have changed on what makes the "perfect" club due to our country's/world's economic situation?
Any thoughts on what is maybe more or less important to you in a club today then in 2004?