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View Full Version : Geez, guys seem to really want a lot to part with $20



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Rath
06-08-2004, 05:07 PM
PS to Tigerlilly --

You saw that my quote was "Everybody has the right not to be a 'dirty' stripper," right?

pinkie
06-08-2004, 10:28 PM
the club i work at in a small southern town ...we have a 2 for one special when the DJ calls for it like every hour guys will wait for that and not get dances and girls will do it any time for 2 for 1 dances($20) good for customers BAD for dancers........and with 100+ girls a night it's tough...........we usually just bring home $100-$200 a night if lucky enough to do that and most girls dont even bring home that much a night...........and i've had it with all this so i won't do the 2 for 1 dances .......it's just ruied it for the dancers ........and i've always spent A LOT of money and TIME and Energy on improving myself as good as i can ........lately im finding myself skimping on my beauty just so i can eat and pay bills and it makes me very unhappy.......any suggestions???

Djoser
06-09-2004, 04:29 PM
What I am trying to get you to understand Djser is that your attempts to lay this at the feet of certain customers is just plain wrong. This particular dance took three people to come into being. The customer who pushes the envelope, the dancer who lets him, and the owner who looks the other way. Blame them all or blame no one, but you can't blame just one.

Those are just the facts as they are. Defy the logic of it if you care to, but you would be incorrect in doing so.


You haven't really been reading my posts, except to the extent you see an anti-customer bias.

Please READ THIS CAREFULLY, since you entirely missed it before.

"Agreed, there are way too many "good-for-nothing owners, [and] bad dancers", and that is sure as hell part of the problem."

or this:

"...many of whom are getting blown by Russian prostitute/dancers...of course the American girls often go along with the prevailing market conditions, which probably makes the customers very content."

"...encouraged no doubt by Natasha slobbering on an executive's schlong..."


Now shut up about defying logic, for chrissakes...

Yep, if no dancers ever sucked dick, there wouldn't be such a demand for it.

But as of yet, I see no need for talented dancers to go out and become archeologists. There ARE women who do make a fair living giving clean dances, even in fairly 'dirty' clubs.

But it is far from easy to put up with the kind of shit they have to in the process, which is the subject of the thread here, NOT the need for everyone always to make sure customers don't get a bad name because so many of them are assholes.

The nature of your OWN posting "indicates all manner of prejudices are at work." The most glaring being this statement:

"Men in strip-clubs are, traditionally, shy in their dealings with dancers."

What fucking clubs do you go to, man? Do you think these women are just inventing stories of getting poked, prodded, and verbally harassed on a nightly basis for fun!?

sander8son
06-09-2004, 06:56 PM
The nature of your OWN posting "indicates all manner of prejudices are at work." The most glaring being this statement:

"Men in strip-clubs are, traditionally, shy in their dealings with dancers."

What fucking clubs do you go to, man? Do you think these women are just inventing stories of getting poked, prodded, and verbally harassed on a nightly basis for fun!?



actualy dj, thorn is right about that. i think MOST of the customers are shy. however, a large percenatage of these customers tend to become slighly more vociferous and digitally exploritory somewhere between the 11th and 12th drink.

string up the bartenders and cocktail staff!!!!

:D

Djoser
06-09-2004, 07:24 PM
The truth is, I LIKE customers. When I work, I work the floor. And they like me, believe it or not.

I think the assholes just tend to stand out more by their very nature, and it only takes one to ruin a night.

money
06-10-2004, 07:54 AM
Wow, this is a long thread! Took me forever to get through it! Back to the original topic, from what I have seen, the dancers that seem to bitch the most about money are the ones that don't try! The attitude of alot of dancers nowadays is "I am here, throw money at me" without doing as much as shaking her ass or whatever. Example: At my normal club here in NJ, (you know NJ style clubs, long bars with the stage in the middle, stools all around the bar, dancers go around for their dollar tips during their half hour set etc) this one drop dead beautiful dancer comes up for her tip, she sees someone leaving, so she grabs my dollar, runs to these other guys to say goodbye, and I don't get a thank you a shake or anything. That is rude! I told her friend, who dances there as well, that she better not even come by me again. Next time she came up to me for a tip, I turned my back to her. I don't care how good looking you, but a simple "thank you" would be good for me after a tip. This other dancer that bitches the money isn't as good: She spends 25 minutes of her half hour off between sets, changing her clothes and doesn't make the rounds for dances! How can you bitch if you don't try! Other dancers just sit around in packs together and just drink and look around.

Here is my advice for dancers: You have it good, you make good money tax free. Just think of the alternative: guys TOTALLY STOP going to these clubs, then what would you do? You would have to be up by 5:30 or 6 in the morning, go to a boring 40 hour a week job where you pay taxes, work til 5 or later in the afternoon, and get this, MAKE LESS MONEY!!! So basically STFU and keep dancing and do a little less bitching!! And notice, I didn't bring up the extra thing, cuz to me, that is insignificant.

Rath
06-10-2004, 10:05 AM
See polecat's incredibly great post in this thread in the Lounge:

http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/index.php/stripperweb/off-topic/chat/t9987.html?boardseen=1

Djoser
06-10-2004, 12:39 PM
Thorn, I think we have been seeing only the negative in each others posts.

Getting back to the point of the thread, though--guys seem to expect a lot for 20$.

I just don't like the harassment that goes on in VIP, which seems to be worse where extras and extra-high contact is prevalent.

I don't like seeing women being treated with disrespect, verbally or by having unwelcome fingers attempting to invade their orifices. It happens, and it sucks, and it is happening more frequently. Not all customers are rude, but there are enough of them to make it a very difficult job. I see this as being a bad thing.

Try putting yourself in the shoes of the women who have to put up with it.

sander8son
06-10-2004, 12:49 PM
i think another thing that makes it seem like more customers are assholes is that one customer can be an asshole to several girls in one night. now he's just one asshole, but he can potentially ruin the night for 15 girls. so each of them has one customer thats been an asshole to them(so it appears to be 15 assholes, when in actuallity it was just one). i think im trying to bridge the gap between thorn and djoser with that. but ultimately, i coudln't give a shit if they calmed down or continued to get pissed at each other.

on to the point of the thread. i had recieved a PM about this thread a while back and basically wrote a PM back that i may as well have just copied in here. infact i will........

its a perfectly competitive market. there is far too high a supply of dancers, with far too low a demand(could also be stated as supply of customers). customers also make less now on average over the past several years(versus the previous 10 or so). therefor, the supply of funds available to strippers has decreased dramatically, while the demand for customer funds has increased dramatically(supply of strippers each expecting to make money).

that is why customers are buying less in general. now the wanting more milage part is as follows. this also draws on the above. if there is such a greater supply of dancers, what makes dancer A better than dancer B? dancer A has to offer a better deal to the consumer than dancer B. easiest way to do that is by offering the much maligned "extra". also, our society is becoming more openly accepting of sex, and therefor it is easier for guys to get visual and/or physical sexual stimuli outside a club, thus decreasing even more the demand for stripping entertainment. if i can get it for relatively cheap outside, why pay for less milage inside? now, also with the sexual liberation of society, comes the fact that stripping is less now of a tabboo occupation. therefor opening the door for many to do it.(reason for the large increase in the supply of strippers)

and, since we live in the PC era or anti-discrimination, how dare a club owner not hire someone fat and ugly. (this is a minor reason for the increasing number in the supply of dancers). many of which make little money, however still making some, which detracts from the money the truly showmanship woman make.

if you want to make more for doing less you need to manufacture a faux-oligopoly. you basically need to strong-arm clubs out of business so customers dont have a choice as to where to go. THEN, with the decreased clubs, staff them with only the highest callibur women. then you can all airdance all you want and make a fortune. just a little club collusion on fixing prices and running out competition and you'll be on easy street. goodluck!


that was my PM, id like to add that YES IT DOES SUCK to those who were pure entertainers before, or those who wish to only be entertainers now. however unfortunate it may be, this thing happens everywhere from time to time in many industries. you're justified in complaining about it, but it probably wont help much. adaption or moving on are the only real solutions.
questions, comments, concerns, praises?

Katrine
06-10-2004, 02:27 PM
Wow Sandy, very good! You're improving greatly from the "all dancers are whores" days....good boy! ;)

Tigerlilly
06-10-2004, 02:56 PM
Here is my advice for dancers: You have it good, you make good money tax free.

WRONG


Dancers like everyone else are required to pay income tax. I paid PLENTY of taxes even with a kick ass accountant.

money
06-10-2004, 04:01 PM
OK, maybe some of the more educated dancers that have a clue, do pay taxes. But I can guarantee you, with the clubs I do go to, the vast majority do NOT pay taxes, and they are too dumb to even know what taxes are!!

sander8son
06-10-2004, 04:28 PM
Wow Sandy, very good! You're improving greatly from the "all dancers are whores" days....good boy! ;)


thats funny kat, considering i just posted today on SCJ in the "outside (something i forget) " thread about all dancers being whores. guess i go both ways.

lestat1
06-10-2004, 06:24 PM
guess i go both ways.


Yes. We know. :rotfl:

Darren
06-11-2004, 07:40 AM
Just think of the alternative: guys TOTALLY STOP going to these clubs, then what would you do? You would have to be up by 5:30 or 6 in the morning, go to a boring 40 hour a week job where you pay taxes, work til 5 or later in the afternoon, and get this, MAKE LESS MONEY!!! So basically STFU and keep dancing and do a little less bitching!! And notice, I didn't bring up the extra thing, cuz to me, that is insignificant.


I think the original posting was meant to be (somewhat) tongue-in-cheek, but yes there is some irony in the fact that if men didn't act as men do, dancers would have to make money competing in other job markets. Isn't there something about not biting the hand that feeds you? :)

And it is also true that (most) dancers choose the job of dancing by choice. There is nothing preventing them from stopping, and competing for other jobs. When a person has a choice, and continues to do whatever it is they do, it must be that they continue because they have decided that given all other job choices, the benefits of remaining in their job outweighs the risks/stress/requirements/benefits of competing for other jobs.

All that said, everyone has some things about their job that they don't like, and there is nothing wrong with venting a little steam now and then. It is only really a problem when a person is a whiner and is always complaining - often such people whine about their life outside of work too - no appreciation, no thankfulness, that does get old really fast.

Three other points to think about.

First, for some guys $20 represents two to three hours of work. Even for someone well paid chances are they spent more than 3-5 minutes earning the $20 so in that light $20 for 3-5 minutes of entertainment is not inexpensive and it is reasonable that customers should indeed expect an enjoyable experience given the cost/time ratio.

Second, as I pointed out some of the expenses, and demands on dancers are not unique to dancers. As I said, many people regularly work out and continue to do so their whole lives for their health. For some it is necessary for their jobs, but for most it is just a life practice that they need to stay healthy. Also with regards to clothing expenses, many people spend a lot more than dancers do on white-collar business clothing. Even a medium quality suit, dress shoes, tie, belt, etc., can cost several hundred dollars and very easily approaches a thousand. Obviously dancers spend more on beauty treatments then the average person, but most everyone pays for regular hair cuts and some women pay for regular manicures and such.

Third, and I suspect nobody wants to hear this, but life as a beautiful girl is completely different than life as an unattractive girl. Most (honest) guy here will tell you that they are far more tolerant of taking crap from a beautiful girl than they are from an unattractive one. Some of the dancer's customers may suck, but life as a plain or unattractive girl sucks too. The later don't even have the option of dancing for a living, and if they are demanding, bitchy, or downright nasty, guys will just tell them to f*ck off (because they aren't trying to suck up to them to get into their pants). I guess what I am saying is if you are attractive (either naturally or because you've worked hard to be so) be thankful!






To some degree everyone

Djoser
06-11-2004, 10:53 PM
My initial post on this thread was an attempt to make clear that in so many areas where high contact is the norm, 20$ is a very small price to pay for what the customer gets, even without extras.

It kind of got lost in the ensuing debate as to whether I was realizing it wasn't just the customers' fault, and whether market conditions dictated that clean dancers should become archeologists instead, instead of knuckling under and gleefully sucking dicks all night.

All that aside, a guy gets to feel tits and ass, say or hear all kinds of nasty shit if he is so inclined, and get his dick rubbed thoroughly by the lady of his choice. If he goes to a Deja Vu or somewhere that offers 2-for-1 dances all night long, he can get an extra serving. In this case the girl will keep 7$ a dance, for letting herself be molested and rubbing his dick.

I sympathize with a hard-working guy who spent two or three hours toiling to make the cash to get this, but it should be clear that it is well worth it. Getting your dick rubbed by a hot girl for 20$ is not something that is easy to do, outside of a stripclub.

Try propositioning almost any good-looking woman, anywhere, with a similar business transaction. You won't get it, you'll probably get slapped for your trouble, and beaten like a gong by any men in hearing who might feel protective of a woman being addressed in this way.

Sitri
06-12-2004, 05:28 AM
Good point if in fact what you assume is provided for $20 is true. But I think the point is what they want for what they get versus what the dance wants to give for $20.

Again just depends on the matchup of expectations between the dancer and the customer. I am a low demand customer and there are frankly times when the dancer probable says,"This guy doesn't expect a lot for $20.

Instead of using the broad brush, I am curious as to what Percentage of customers are expecting more that the dancer is willing to provide. Is it 90%, 80%, 50%? I think this type of information would be important to the dancers as they can sort of compare their experience with what others are saying.

Right now we are debating how many angels fit on the head of a pin. LOL.

Djoser
06-12-2004, 10:21 AM
Great idea for a survey, Sitri.

But there isn't much question that many, many dancers are confronted on a near nightly basis by at least one customer who wants more than she feels comfortable with for 20$.

This is nothing whatever like a debate practiced in medieval times about celestial beings. This is very real.

Darren
06-12-2004, 12:59 PM
Again just depends on the matchup of expectations between the dancer and the customer. I am a low demand customer and there are frankly times when the dancer probable says,"This guy doesn't expect a lot for $20.


I guess I am a high demand customer in that I expect the dancers undivided attention for 3-5 minutes for $20, but I don't expect "extras". I do expect the dancer to be there though. If it comes across that she doesn't care, she just wants to go home, her mind is on problems at home, dislikes men, dislikes dancing, isn't clean (yuck), well you get the idea.

kitana
06-28-2004, 09:38 AM
Sitri, I have a response to your comment, It depends on what kind of angel it is.
No seriously, I agree with Thorn and DJoser both, it does take a lot for women to be beautiful these days.
I agree, it also takes a special person to make a guy "cough over $30(in my club)" for a few min of my time. But I assure you whom ever the guy is I will do my damnest to make them feel as special as I can in the time that I have to do so. With out extras. I agree that if it wasen't for the few bad apples (girls) who started the whole "do dances from me cause if you do I will damn near let you fuck me, if no one's watching", we wouldn't be in this whole mess to begin woth. But both of you are missing out on a very important point, it's not only the gilrs, or the mgmt, or the guys; it's society that started this juggernaunt. Anybody ever watch MTV anymore? Or see what 5yr old kids are wearing to school? Or see how many regular bars are doing thong and boobie contests nowadays? Or how many movies that are pg13 should actually be rated R or NC-17? It's not completly the industry's fault anymore, it's the sex-isn't-a-big-deal anymore attidude of the world that's really to blame. Why go to a Sc to see 1/2 naked women when you can watch it on T.V. for free?
But that's just my opinion.
Kitana

Sitri
06-28-2004, 09:48 AM
Sitri, I have a response to your comment, It depends on what kind of angel it is.
No seriously, I agree with Thorn and DJoser both, it does take a lot for women to be beautiful these days.
I agree, it also takes a special person to make a guy "cough over $30(in my club)" for a few min of my time. But I assure you whom ever the guy is I will do my damnest to make them feel as special as I can in the time that I have to do so. With out extras. I agree that if it wasen't for the few bad apples (girls) who started the whole "do dances from me cause if you do I will damn near let you fuck me, if no one's watching", we wouldn't be in this whole mess to begin woth. But both of you are missing out on a very important point, it's not only the gilrs, or the mgmt, or the guys; it's society that started this juggernaunt. Anybody ever watch MTV anymore? Or see what 5yr old kids are wearing to school? Or see how many regular bars are doing thong and boobie contests nowadays? Or how many movies that are pg13 should actually be rated R or NC-17? It's not completly the industry's fault anymore, it's the sex-isn't-a-big-deal anymore attidude of the world that's really to blame. Why go to a Sc to see 1/2 naked women when you can watch it on T.V. for free?
But that's just my opinion.
Kitana


Now this is amusing.... The two angel avatars discussing how many angels will fit on the head of a pin. I'll scratch your wings if you scratch mine. ;D

Anyway, I think things are changing for the worse in terms of expectations on both sides for the reasons mentioned above. If you can see that on T.V. What should you be able to get for $30?

sander8son
06-28-2004, 01:12 PM
yah, sitri and kitana: i said that about 3 weeks ago about society and what we see daily as part of my argument. i know most people probably have me on ignore. but it seems that oftentimes after i post something, somebody comes along with "a new perspective" that is exactly what i said before.

so i suggest, we all stop replying to threads. instead, when people have questions, they can post it, and i'll reply for everyone. this SW dictatorship should suit everyones best interests.

sgtjohnny
06-28-2004, 08:48 PM
You can be assured by me, that I personally appreciate all the work Dancers do. I think it is an honorable profession. Yes, their are scumbags, drug addicts and drunks who do get in the business but, I appreciate dancers who enjoy their work and do practice good customer service. So I personally thank all the Dancers for what they do.

:)

Mare
06-29-2004, 12:20 PM
This is a GREAT post.You must have been reading my mind. Thanks! I feel like prinintg it out and leaving copies in all the club's men's rooms. What the men seem to fail to realize is if they don't pay us when they see us then when they come back next time we won't be there for them. They can go back to looking at 1 dimentional porn mags.Still - they'd have to shell out around $8 for that.