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Tina
06-26-2004, 08:24 PM
You guys need to read the Republican agenda posted by Tigerlilly on this same off topic board.

It is very long but scan it, and read it carefully over the next few days.

This is very scary and gives detailed accounts of how the Republican Party is already acting as the religious right party and is on target to mkake this a biblical nation.

This is very frightening. I always felt something about this administration and the Bushes in general wasn't right.

You've got to read that article. Knowledge is power.

Tigerlilly
06-26-2004, 08:31 PM
You guys need to read the Republican agenda posted by Tigerlilly on this same off topic board.


Oh Tina you know by now that most "sheep" won't read anything that isn't pre aproved by their Holy Leader ;D

Melonie
06-26-2004, 08:33 PM
John Lindsay '65 to 73, was a Republican until 1971.
Abe Beame was a Democrat (73-77)
Ed Koch, 1978 to 1989 - Republican.
Guiliani was elected in 1994

As I said, every one of them was a liberal (by nationwide republican standards anyhow). In New York, we get a choice between liberal republicans and even more liberal democrats ! Anybody approaching conservativism better high tail it way upstate.


- and his morality crusade didn't start until 1998. Bear in mind his aim wasn't to prevent dirty dancers from giving blowjobs - it was to shut down all strip clubs, period.

Actually his aim was to attract Disney, Warner Bro's and other big corporations to NYC and to increase the appeal of NYC for family tourism, to improve NYC's desparate financial situation. Whether or not 100% of strip clubs and other adult businesses in NYC were assaulted by his anti-dance club crusade, it was done as a stepping stone towards this deal and not as an end unto itself (because Disney, Warner Bro's etc. specifically pointed out the public image of 42nd street sleaze as a dealbreaker).


Our current mayor, Bloomberg, is a Republican - is it his influence that has caused strippers at VIP and elsewhere to start dishing out extras?

In a way - yes. Bloomberg has exercised the same sort of "neglect" in regard to monitoring strip clubs that is common in cities like Houston. Like most republicans, on the record he'll definitely condemn strip clubs but off the record he probably could care less or may even be supportive (and I would imagine that the Gooch made a few noteworthy campaign contributions LOL). This "neglect" may not last for long, though, thanks to the efforts of the new NYC councilwoman from Chelsea who appears to be waving the crusade banner again.

Melonie
06-26-2004, 08:44 PM
I think it is unfair for you to construe Hezbollah support for the movie as some kind of endorsement against Moore. After all, it is questioning of the current administration and any enemy will jump on that

I'm not construing Hezbollah support for this movie as an automatic condemnation of Moore. IMHO Moore condemned himself by accepting Hezbollah money to help distribute his movie and thus increase his own profit, while Hezbollah achieved their objective of providing millions of middle easterners with Moore's version of the 'truth'.

At least Halliburton is profiting while helping the US cause, while Moore is profiting by helping the 'enemy'.

Deogol
06-26-2004, 08:49 PM
I think it is unfair for you to construe Hezbollah support for the movie as some kind of endorsement against Moore. After all, it is questioning of the current administration and any enemy will jump on that

I'm not construing Hezbollah support for this movie as an automatic condemnation of Moore. IMHO Moore condemned himself by accepting Hezbollah money to help distribute his movie and thus increase his own profit, while Hezbollah achieved their objective of providing millions of middle easterners with Moore's version of the 'truth'.

At least Halliburton is profiting while helping the US cause, while Moore is profiting by helping the 'enemy'.


I have seen where they have offered endorsement and offered help, but I have not seen anything where he actually accepted the help. Do you have some source links?

Tina
06-26-2004, 08:55 PM
The major raids have begun again in Houston, and my former home club St. James was hit twice in two weeks.

Thursday night 10 police cars and 2 paddy wagons came and about 12-20 girls were arrested.

Plus with the money laudering case looming over the jackpot clubs where 2.1 million was seized from Treasures 3 bank accounts by direction of homeland security, the word on the street is that this is a start of things to come.

As I said before what we are dealing with with this administration is more serious than stripping. We are facing losing most of our civil liberties.

We had better hope that this film will wake up enough people to make them vote bush out of office.

You guys have to understand that even though Kerry is not the man of our dreams, he is not associated with the religious right party.

The Democratic agenda is not to take away our civil liberties and force us into a secular lifestyle.

The main focus now is to gain Democratic control and take this country out of the hands of the religious right.

This is not about what Kerry is or isn't or about Michael Moore's motivation or funding of the film.

We better all hope that enough people wake up and get this administration out of office by January 20th 2005.

There is nothing about Kerry that poses anywhere near the threat of Bush back in office.

Tina
06-27-2004, 03:26 AM
Only a person who is right wing and a member of the religious right would support Bush and his policies.

The Bush administration is not out to help the average or poor citizen.

Why are some of you so negative towards an antiestablishment bashing? You should support anyone who would bash that SOB Bush. None of you are on his level, are you?

Bush and his family IS a bunch of crooks, and anyone regardless of their party affiliation is smart enough to see that, aren't they?

You guys take your clothes off for a living and patronize strip clubs yet have the nerve to bash Moore who is gutzy enough to take on the old square jawed white fuckers who are hell bent on enforcing old fashioned laws which make your lives and mine hell.

Any of you guys who support this administration might as well be Mormons.

Any one who fights the establishment should be applauded by people like us who live beat the system lives, yet some of you don't seem to get it.

People who earn a living or patronize adult businesses don't support the religious right over someone who is trying to fight the establishment, do they?

This is why our business is being taken apart. Dancers and customers don't have the guts to fight the establishment and stand up for it.

Those of you not standing up for this movie exposing the Bushes lies which anyone with a brain knew to be true, before Michael Moore even aired his movie, shows that you don't really believe in this business.

I get really irritated with this type of thing.

onlythebest
06-27-2004, 03:38 AM
My husband is in the Marines.He "cautiously" supports this administration because Republicans have always demanded higher pay for the military.The double edged sword comes in when this same admin. gets him deployed overseas.As far as both Bush and Michael Moore goes,they are seriously one sided in their views.I don't like Kerry for what he did in the Vietnam War era,so I've decided to not vote at all in the upcoming election.In my opinion,this country is going to hell in a handbasket one day soon.

Sitri
06-27-2004, 05:26 AM
At the risk of providing ammunition to both sides, there was a perspective in the St. Pete Times today about Unfarenheit 9/11 by Christopher Hitchings. The reason I say both sides, it because he attacks idiot democrat stupidity equally with republican stupidity.

Anyway, for those who ran out of coffee this morning and are looking for a way to get the blood boiling, here is the link to the article ... and also to many other editorials.

They are well done. You go... wow, I wish I would have said that. It's almost like reading this board.

for Unfarenheit

for all sorts of ammo pro and con.

To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery.

Deogol
06-27-2004, 07:07 AM
My husband is in the Marines.He "cautiously" supports this administration because Republicans have always demanded higher pay for the military.The double edged sword comes in when this same admin. gets him deployed overseas.As far as both Bush and Michael Moore goes,they are seriously one sided in their views.I don't like Kerry for what he did in the Vietnam War era,so I've decided to not vote at all in the upcoming election.In my opinion,this country is going to hell in a handbasket one day soon.


Send a protest vote over to Nader!

If you don't vote, then you will have done what each of them hope for... less people to worry about.

Djoser
06-27-2004, 07:09 AM
Great links, Sitri...

I especially liked this piece about Reagan, though it isn't in keeping with the huge wave of ass-kissing brought on by his death.

http://slate.msn.com//id/2101842/

As likeable as the guy may have been to some, I could never stand his self-righteous attitude--no matter how well disguised by the affable grin and trite appeals to 'good old fashioned' values. Values borne out in fact through his and his assistants' (like Bush Sr, for instance) actions: selling guns to Islamic terrorists, doing business with drug smugglers, and giving all the proceeds to some other terrorists--because they were after all killing commies. And lying prolifically about all of it.

But no one seemed to really care. Where the press would have crucified Nixon for anything remotely resembling these actions, Reagan, et al, recieved a relative slap on the wrist, amongst strident calls for Ollie North's Presidency.

Now we see Reagan's legacy in action, and the Religious Right, which began it's insidious war on divergent morality during his term, is now firmly entrenched.

I urge all Republicans to cleanse your party of those forces which are a threat to our way of life--don't ignore the ultimate intent of those who would impose their moral strictures. We who are not members of the Party cannot dismiss its stated goals so readily.

Deogol
06-27-2004, 07:17 AM
At the risk of providing ammunition to both sides, there was a perspective in the St. Pete Times today about Unfarenheit 9/11 by Christopher Hitchings. The reason I say both sides, it because he attacks idiot democrat stupidity equally with republican stupidity.

Anyway, for those who ran out of coffee this morning and are looking for a way to get the blood boiling, here is the link to the article ... and also to many other editorials.

They are well done. You go... wow, I wish I would have said that. It's almost like reading this board.

for Unfarenheit

for all sorts of ammo pro and con.

To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery.




Here is another article by Hitchins, just to give some context to where this guy comes from:



Regarding Farenheit, anyone who saw the movie will realize Hatchin got a bunch of stuff wrong. For example airport security, Hatchin's has it written Moore flip flops on should we have better security or lesser security. What I saw in the movie, is that common people, like you and me, are forced to drink breast milk to get on the plane, while the more elite have a whole different set of standards.

That suppossedly some things are forbidden on a plane (like matches - matches the shoe bomber could have really used to blow up a plane) until some big corporate interest wants to see them back on the plane (big tobacco wants those smokers to be able to light up as soon as they are off the plane!)

Moore's satirical questions are about the double standards and how those standards change not in the interest of safety, but in the interest of the elites.

Hatchin is kinda an idiot. He is fun to read because he will jar you into thinking, but once you do one realizes he has some shit wrong. He is like the over zealous sophmore journalism student who is going to shake up the world like watergate.

samart
06-27-2004, 07:47 AM
Ya know it's amazing, how many people are calling the Republicans 'sheep' for believing in our CiC (If youdon't know what this is, think a while) to do the right thing. Yet, when they want to believe in their politicans, they are not sheep, they are merely finding out about the truth.

Ya know.......sad thing is, and most people don't pull their head out of their ass long enough to realize it, we have not had a decent President since Eisenhower, hell....maybe even FDR. But yet folks will continue to walk on, live through their views, and try to get everyone else to conform to THEM! As much as EVERONE hates to say it, we are ALL sheep. So belly up and get your coat shaved....it's been a while!

When will people realize, that is what makes our country so great. We get to choose, through our Electoral College, who will run our country. That is what so many have died for us and continue to die for us, so that we can piss and moan, rant and rave, over why things SUCK so bad for us because our gas is so expensive.

Live and let live, learn and become educated. But don't tell me how stupid I am for my beliefs and what I have learned, because we are ALL sheep, whether you want to believe it or not.

Djoser
06-27-2004, 08:04 AM
Wow... where to start. A little harsh don't you thinK?

...again, any act, especially during wartime, that does not support the president of the US, is nothing short of treason. However, I would not bash you for your beliefs.

Who's being harsh? Calling someone a traitor because they don't support Bush isn't bashing them?


All I have seen is a bunch of propaganda.

Get used to the idea--if your views about supporting the President become more popular, that's all you will ever get--propaganda.

Telling me what kind of books I can read, what kind of prayers I need to say, or what kind of sex I can have--THIS is unAmerican.

Thankfully, not all Republicans want to do so. But the Bible beaters who stand behind Bush do.

They are the real traitors...

Melonie
06-27-2004, 08:40 AM
Thanks Sitri for posting the Hitchens links. There are also many other internet sources detailing Michael Moore's "distortions", and more sure to come in the next few days. Having "counterbalancing information" available will at least allow Americans and other english speakers to put Farenheit 9/11 in perspective if they choose to make the effort to seek out this "counterbalancing information"

However, it is a virtual certainty that non-english speakers, and particularly middle eastern non-english speakers, will NOT have "counterbalancing information" available. This fact of course was known by Hezbollah in their efforts to make sure Moore's movie was distributed throughout the middle east.

Adina
06-27-2004, 12:41 PM
What I have read from those of you who support this administration is just...weak. And sad. I'd like to know - how many of you went to public school? How many went to a state university? How many of you have parents who collect Social Security and/or Medicare? How many of the women have had abortions - or use birth control?

What I gather from all the Bush patsies here is that it's great to exploit the status quo when it suits you and suck on Uncle Sam's tit when it's convenient, but to hell with anything or anyone beyond your back yard. As long as we can drive our SUVs and watch high definition television on 36" monitors, who gives a shit if our civil liberties are being eroded, or that we have a Third World in our own country. You all put the pathetic in apathetic.

Adina
06-27-2004, 01:10 PM
You are correct - my mistake. Koch has since switched political affiliations and is endorsing Bush in the upcoming election. But to imply that Democratic politics are responsible for extras in strip clubs is absurd. Are Tampa, Memphis, and Houston, home of high mileage, all Democratic strongholds? I don't think so.

How can anyone here deny that if the Christian Coalition/Moral Majority had their way, strippers would all be out of jobs, and there would be no strip clubs for men to go to to get drunk and cop a feel? I didn't know it was possible to be that blind and hypocritical.

Melonie
06-27-2004, 03:00 PM
Perhaps the best comment to interject at this point is to repeat a time proven political axiom ...

What's the difference between a liberal and a conservative ?
.
.
.
about 20 years !

ace_barker
06-27-2004, 04:16 PM
The major raids have begun again in Houston, and my former home club St. James was hit twice in two weeks.

Thursday night 10 police cars and 2 paddy wagons came and about 12-20 girls were arrested.

Plus with the money laudering case looming over the jackpot clubs where 2.1 million was seized from Treasures 3 bank accounts by direction of homeland security, the word on the street is that this is a start of things to come.

The mayor of Houston is a DEMOCRAT. Houston mayor Bill White was the chairman of the Texas democratic party and a major fundraiser for Clinton and Al Gore before he was mayor. He's raiding your club not the feds under Bush. Now if clubs are laundering money then they deserve to get pinched.

Melonie
06-27-2004, 04:19 PM
The national level is a bit different. Whether Kerry, Bush or even John Ashcroft is elected President won't make a bit of difference to the strip club industry, (though there might be some crackdown on interstate porn sales - would that help clubs by removing alternatives?) I can't quite see loads of support for an anti-stripper Constitutional amendment, so the other issues we all disagree on are more important there. Too bad in a way. If the election was going to be truly meaningful to clubs' and dancers' survival we would get a lot more agreement in these discussions

Well IMHO this election could be pivotal to the near term future of strip clubs and dancers' incomes - but not for the reasons that you think. I would make the case that if democrats regain power, anticipation of the return to tax and spend policies will tank the stock market, tank the economic recovery, and as a result leave strip club customers with significantly less 'discretionary' money to spend in strip clubs.

samart
06-27-2004, 04:25 PM
But see Mel.....if that does happen, they will just blame Bush for it! Hell.......that's what they have been doing for 4 years.

Casual Observer
06-27-2004, 04:48 PM
Oh Tina you know by now that most "sheep" won't read anything that isn't pre aproved by their Holy Leader

Right, because Moore releases an obvious piece of political propaganda--the likes of which would make Leni Riefenstahl smile--and while you're swallowing his vitriol whole and proselytizing his agenda verbatim, it's "those other people" that are the sheep...

::)

Isis
06-27-2004, 04:58 PM
What I gather from all the Bush patsies here is that it's great to exploit the status quo when it suits you and suck on Uncle Sam's tit when it's convenient, but to hell with anything or anyone beyond your back yard. As long as we can drive our SUVs and watch high definition television on 36" monitors, who gives a shit if our civil liberties are being eroded, or that we have a Third World in our own country. You all put the pathetic in apathetic.


Amen Adina ! It's all about GREED and self serving policies..... Lower taxes are fine for the Bush PATSIES and they could care less about poor schools or healthcare as long as they get to keep a few extra dollars..... and look at em going on about I'm not gonna see that film because its "unamerican" ::) what a load of stinking bull crap. They don't want to deal with REALITY of what our revolting President has done or why he did it. They want to as u said, drive their suv's and buy lots of toys, on credit ofcourse and screw everyone else.

This war hasn't been about terrorism for over two years , its been about GREED and selfishness. Its not about helping the people of Iraq.... its about taking advantage of their suffering. Bush and his croonies are LIARS, FRAUDS and EVIL. And anyone who is still being fooled by their LIES needs deprograming by a cult behavior specialist.

ace_barker
06-27-2004, 05:00 PM
What a load of Bullshit.

Isis
06-27-2004, 05:07 PM
Oh Tina you know by now that most "sheep" won't read anything that isn't pre aproved by their Holy Leader

Right, because Moore releases an obvious piece of political propaganda--the likes of which would make Leni Riefenstahl smile--and while you're swallowing his vitriol whole and proselytizing his agenda verbatim, it's "those other people" that are the sheep...

::)


We're not swallowing it, we're taking into consideration along with all the other explanations out there...... what make u people "sheep" is that you refuse to even consider anything other than what our LYING, SCAMING, EVIL President spoon feeds you..... its like if he says, it its fact.....Well its not...... not even close, not even a 1000 miles near by the truth. If u bothered to look into things u would know its all LIES. Moore's fil is one sided yeah so ? Everyone knows that. its one view, not the only view, we know that. Unlike u Bush PATSIES we want to get lots of points of view and come to our own conclusions.

Hell even the 9/11 commission found ZERO CONNECTION. ZERO people ZERO.

Madcap
06-27-2004, 05:08 PM
What a load of Bullshit.


Nope, it's a load of propaganda (rather like the shit Karl Rove spoonfeeds us). But at least it will be entertaining propaganda.

Isis
06-27-2004, 05:10 PM
What a load of Bullshit.


typical, its bullshit but u cant show any reasonable reason why- whatever u brainwashed jackass whatever ::)

RYAN
06-27-2004, 05:12 PM
The whole line of shit that "this movie is all Moore's opinion" is such BS. Of course it is his opinion that bush is an asshole but he sure does back that opinion up with tons and tons of facts.

Djoser
06-27-2004, 05:16 PM
What's the difference between a liberal and a conservative ? ...about 20 years !


I don't know about the exact figure, but I was raised in a very conservative, Republican background, including the entire extended family on my mother's side. When I was in high school, my already extensive readings in military history made me a vociferous critic of the spineless commie sympathisers (i.e. 'liberals'--the gutless swine) who were ruining the global political situation.

Then I started reading a lot more, about war, politics, and history. Real war, not just armchair military history--which is often dangerously akin to sportswriting--written by guys who would pee their pants if someone started shooting at them. An excellent book to read for a glimpse of what war is really like would be "With the Old Breed", by E.B. Sledge, a marine who served on Peleliu and Okinawa.

I started looking into what percentage of the nation's wealth is owned by what percentage of the nation's population, and which way the trend is going.

I read about the bullshit perpetrated upon America by a President almost as dishonest, deceitful, and downright frightening as Bush, Richard M. Nixon. Meanwhile, a mediocre actor steering the Ship of State had completed his second term in office. His bald-faced lies were unchallenged, since they were for the most part hokey and amusing. "There's no word for "freedom" in the Russian language..." being the most benign, his denial of involvement in the Iran/Contra affair being his most blatant and evil.

I observed the steady and unchallenged seizure of ideological influence and power within the ranks of the party I had always believed in, by demagogues and moralistic goons whose goal is to ensure that everyone reads, writes, fucks, and spends every waking moment living in accordence with THEIR God's rules.

I watched the Bush dynasty gain influence and go to war, selecting the human rights' violators with care, so that their constituents would profit handsomely. Forget North Korea, there's no oil there.

I observed the party which finally decided it was time to give women the vote (Teddy Roosevelt's Bull Moose/Republican party adopted suffrage as a plank--though it didn't happen immediately), move farther and farther towards stifling the freedom of women to control their bodies and otherwise move beyond restrictions imposed by patriarchical society.

Along with many of the women, and a couple of men, in the extended family founded by an industrialist of some merit (and a steadfast opponent of FDR), I renounced my conservative, Republican heritage.

To my dismay, and sometimes my amusement, I found myself labelled a 'liberal'--the term frequently being uttered with contempt and derision, complete with accusations of my ingestion of warped and biased literature. This was in spite of my advocacy of a strong military, an invigorated Space program, the curtailment of Welfare, etc., etc.

And then, five years ago, I started working in an industry which is fueled largely by money spent by conservatives, but is the target of a deadly assault by Christian Fundamentalists. I fear those within the industry who scoff at the ability for these elements to affect them and their livelihood are sadly mistaken at best, and delusional at worst.

It didn't take twenty years to change my mind, but I'll be damned (literally, according to Jerry Falwell) if I will support a party that fails to stop this insane and unAmerican lunacy taking hold in its ranks.

I will sum up with the words of a Republican...

" 'What the Christian right spends a lot of time doing," says Marc Wolin, a moderate Republican who ran unsuccessfully for Congress from San Francisco last year, "is going after obscure party posts. They try to control the party apparatus in each county. We have a lot to fear from these people. They want to set up a theocracy in America.' "

Guess what will happen to strippers in the theocracy?

Madcap
06-27-2004, 05:17 PM
Ace is a bit militant in his inability to accept that people dissagree with him, but i don't think he's brainwashed. He probably believes what he says. That said, i'll take melonies well thought out and reasoned opinions any day over arbitrary "you're wrong's" from Ace.

Casual Observer
06-27-2004, 05:39 PM
We're not swallowing it, we're taking into consideration along with all the other explanations out there......

So I guess you'll be running out and buying Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man, (http://www.harpercollins.com/catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0060763957) which point-by-point exposes Moore's elitist hypocrisy?

Just a few pieces where Moore reinvents himself at will. (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/23/165945.shtml)

And I thought only X-Files fans were conspiracy freaks.

Isis
06-27-2004, 05:50 PM
So I guess you'll be running out and buying Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man, (http://www.harpercollins.com/catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0060763957) which point-by-point exposes Moore's elitist hypocrisy?

Just a few pieces where Moore reinvents himself at will. (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/23/165945.shtml)

sure why not ? Unlike some people (aka Bush Patsies) posting here I'm not opposed to looking at things from a different perspective

Tina
06-27-2004, 06:02 PM
Ace barker, I never said the feds are raiding my club.

I said the feds are behind the Treasures money laundering issue.

I know the mayor is democrat. I never said democratic politicians were going to openly support strip clubs.

I am saying that behind the scene pressures cause the elected officials to take that direction. And those pressures come from the religious right groups.

Tina
06-27-2004, 07:28 PM
Here is some interesting info regarding our beloved administration:

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The Federalist Society, formed 20 years ago in reaction to the powers the Supreme Court was granting the Federal Government.

It is hostile to civil rights, environmental protections, worker safety laws, a separation of church and state, and more.

Some prominent leaders of the Religious Right play a dominant role in the Federalist Society and:

24 of bush's top cabinent members and most of his court nominations are members of this society.

The list includes:

John Ashcroft, Attorney General
Spencer Abraham, Secretary of Energy
Gail Norton, Secretary of the Interior
Thedore Olsen, Solicitor General
Supreme Court Justices -Scalia and Thomas

Orrin Hatch (Gold ole Mormon Boy)
and our buddy- Kenneth Star.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As soon as Clinton took office, a vast far right network was out to get him.

Richard mellon Scaife. a MAJOR donor to the Religious Right financed the withc hunt with $2.4 million.

Arkansas investigators used that to pay witnesses to testify against the Clintons in Whitewater. Even though no wrongdoing was commited, Clinton was stuck with the legal bills.

Jerry Falwell and a California political group helped finance a huge anti Clinton propaganda campaign during the early years.

The same tactics are being used on John Kerry.

These groups are major fuckers with lots of money and clout, huh?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The War against Women

Here is the Religious Rights stance:

"Wives, submit to your own husband as to the Lord, for the husband is head of the wife, as christ is head of the church."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bush has cut off the $34 million a year American contribution to the UN population fund.

He doesn't believe in money going for family planning.

Also, federal drug regulators this year banned over the counter sales of the morning after pill.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abstinence only Sex Education

Bush's FY 2003 budget called for a $33 million increase in funding and is maintained in 2004 for abstinence until marriage sex education programs.

These programs MUST refrain from any discussion of the health benefits of contraception, including condoms, in preventing unintended pregnancy, STD's and HIV/AIDS.

In Louisiana, 7th grade abstinence only classes 1st and foremost were about terrifying diseases, boils, endless rashes, sterility and rashes and cancers along with physical and psychic morbidity with which they are punished for having sex before marriage.

Federal monies were used to have these classes taught by faith based organizations.
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THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT GOT SO POWERFUL BECAUSE OF VOTER APATHY, OR MANY NORMAL CITIZENS NOT VOTING!!!

THIS VOTER APATHY OF OTHER AMERICANS IS IMPORTANT TO CHRISTIANS. "

"If just 10% of all Christians in Americatoday woke up and realized how easy it is, got involved consistently for the long haul, it would not take long to reform America completely."

How long?

"Believe it or not it could be done in 10 years."

"Every godly representative in the state legislature could work with a godly president. New judicial appointments would begin radically changing the courts."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When Bush talks about too much Government he means removing restrictions from big business, abolishing the IRS, making the church in charge of education and welfare, phasing out social security for a private pension plan, and taxes would be in the form of a tithe to the church of around 10% of income plus some other assessments.

Education would have to have biblical roots as well. In other words the justifcation of everything taught would have to come from the bible.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SO, HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT?

Our lack of voting and involvement has allowed this element to make large headway in the republican party since 1989.

Putting Schwartzenegger in the recall election in CA as a moderate Republican was a ploy to get democrats to cross party lines and vote Republican in an attempt to retake the largest state in the nation. People were duped.

The state of Texas has taken blacks and hispanics out of congressional districts and moved them into already democratic ones so that republicans could have control of that state.

One has to wonder why the good ole boys have so much power in Texas where the bulk of the population resides in Houston, Dallas/Ft Worth, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso and even throw in Beaumont and Tyler all which have substantial ethnic populations and the good ole boys club still has power.

So with all of this CRAP happening, how is Michael Moore the bad guy?

He might just be saving us from a situation we could never recover from if we all make sure to vote George W and that party OUT of office, right??

Casual Observer
06-27-2004, 07:59 PM
The Federalist Society, formed 20 years ago in reaction to the powers the Supreme Court was granting the Federal Government.

Thank Christ for that. The Federalist Society knows what the Constitutional responsibilities of the judiciary are, and that legislating from the bench isn't part of that. Constitutional lawyers and jurists adhering to a strict constructionist view make up the bulk of Federalist Society members. There wouldn't be a Federalist Society if the left wasn't making law from the bench--it's a case of reaping what's been sown.


Bush has cut off the $34 million a year American contribution to the UN population fund.

Great! The UN is a bloated bureaucracy that lives to thwart American influence. They're great at delivering polio vaccines and drilling water wells, but they are completely incapable of dealing with conflict.


Bush's FY 2003 budget called for a $33 million increase in funding and is maintained in 2004 for abstinence until marriage sex education programs.

Total waste of money. The federal government should have nothing to do with sex education, or any education, outside of student loan funding. Abolish the Department of Education.


Here is the Religious Rights stance:

"Wives, submit to your own husband as to the Lord, for the husband is head of the wife, as christ is head of the church."

Here's a tip, Tina; don't marry a Promisekeeper, and you'll be fine.


THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT GOT SO POWERFUL BECAUSE OF VOTER APATHY, OR MANY NORMAL CITIZENS NOT VOTING!!!

No, the right came to be powerful because there were enough of them pissed off about something (or many things) to become organized, financed and active. This is not unusual or unique to the right side of the political spectrum.


When Bush talks about too much Government he means removing restrictions from big business, abolishing the IRS, making the church in charge of education and welfare, phasing out social security for a private pension plan,

Great! Too bad the DNC is too strong and too stupid to know that we need radical tax reform, local educational control, and the elimination of social security as we know it. Ah well, you can't win them all. Not all at once anyway.


The state of Texas has taken blacks and hispanics out of congressional districts and moved them into already democratic ones so that republicans could have control of that state.

It's called racial gerrymandering, and the DNC has made an art out of it in the last forty years. They just don't like that they're not controlling enough state houses to prevent it from happening to them anymore.


So with all of this CRAP happening, how is Michael Moore the bad guy?

He's not the bad guy; he's simply representing himself and his agenda as that of the common man when he's as elitist as they come. Michael Moore can do as he will; some of us just aren't going to accept his slickly-edited agenda as historical fact, knowing his professional tendencies.

Djoser
06-27-2004, 08:22 PM
...some of us just aren't going to accept his slickly-edited agenda as historical fact, knowing his professional tendencies.


That's exactly the way I, and a growing number of people, feel about Bush. At least Moore isn't sending anyone to get his balls blown off for Halliburton, et al...

Richard_Head
06-27-2004, 08:35 PM
Well IMHO this election could be pivotal to the near term future of strip clubs and dancers' incomes - but not for the reasons that you think. I would make the case that if democrats regain power, anticipation of the return to tax and spend policies will tank the stock market, tank the economic recovery, and as a result leave strip club customers with significantly less 'discretionary' money to spend in strip clubs.

LOL, where have you been the last 4 years, that's exactly what has already happened under Bush, have you seen the size of the deficit Bush has run up, have you seen the rise in unemployment, the outsourcing of jobs, the stagnating wages, all of which lead to a poor stock market and less "discretionary" spending money.

Madcap
06-27-2004, 10:09 PM
He picked Ashcroft.

If there's a more damning thing about GWB i don't know what it is.

ATLDiscoLawyer420
06-27-2004, 10:38 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122680,00.html

'Fahrenheit 9/11' Gets Standing Ovation :o Tuesday, June 15, 2004
By Roger Friedman
PHOTOS



'Fahrenheit 9/11' Gets Standing Ovation ???

The crowd that gave Michael Moore's controversial "Fahrenheit 9/11" documentary a standing ovation last night at the Ziegfeld Theater premiere certainly didn't have to be encouraged to show their appreciation. From liberal radio host/writer Al Franken to actor/director Tim Robbins, Moore was in his element.

But once "F9/11" gets to audiences beyond screenings, it won't be dependent on celebrities for approbation. It turns out to be a really brilliant piece of work, and a film that members of all political parties should see without fail.

As much as some might try to marginalize this film as a screed against President George Bush, "F9/11" — as we saw last night — is a tribute to patriotism, to the American sense of duty — and at the same time a indictment of stupidity and avarice.

Readers of this column may recall that I had a lot of problems with Moore's "Bowling for Columbine," particularly where I thought he took gratuitous shots at helpless targets such as Charlton Heston. "Columbine" too easily succeeded by shooting fish in a barrel, as they used to say.


Not so with "F9/11," which instead relies on lots of film footage and actual interviews to make its case against the war in Iraq and tell the story of the intertwining histories of the Bush and bin Laden families.

First, I know you want to know who came to the Ziegfeld, so here is a partial list:

Besides Franken and Robbins, Al Sharpton, Mike Myers, Tony Bennett, Glenn Close, Gretchen Mol (newly married over the weekend to director Todd Williams), Lori Singer, Tony Kushner, "Angela's Ashes" author Frank McCourt, Jill Krementz and Kurt Vonnegut, Lauren Bacall (chatting up a fully refurbished Lauren Hutton), Richard Gere, John McEnroe and Patti Smythe, former U.N. ambassador Richard Holbrooke, Carson Daly, NBC's Jeff Zucker, a very pregnant Rory Kennedy, playwright Israel Horovitz, Macaulay Culkin, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Kyra Sedgwick, Linda Evangelista, Ed Bradley, Tom and Meredith Brokaw, director Barry Levinson, NBC anchor Brian Williams, Vernon Jordan, Eva Mendes, Sandra Bernhard and the always humorous Joy Behar.

If that's not enough, how about Yoko Ono, accompanied by her son, Sean, who's let his hair grow out and is now sporting a bushy beard that makes him look like his late, beloved father John Lennon?

And then, just to show you how much people wanted to see this film, there was Martha Stewart, looking terrific. I mean, talk about an eclectic group!

Now, unless you've been living under a rock, you know that this movie has been the cause of a lot of trouble. Miramax and Disney have gone to war over it, and "The Passion of the Christ" seems like "Mary Poppins" in retrospect. Before anyone's even seen it, there have been partisan debates over which way Moore may have spun this or that to get a desired effect.

But, really, in the end, not seeing "F9/11" would be like allowing your First Amendment rights to be abrogated, no matter whether you're a Republican or a Democrat.

The film does Bush no favors, that's for sure, but it also finds an unexpectedly poignant and universal groove in the story of Lila Lipscombe, a Flint, Mich., mother who sends her kids into the Army for the opportunities it can provide — just like the commercials say — and lives to regret it.

Lipscombe's story is so powerful, and so completely middle-American, that I think it will take Moore's critics by surprise. She will certainly move to tears everyone who encounters her.

"F9/11" isn't perfect, and of course, there are leaps of logic sometimes. One set piece is about African-American congressmen and women presenting petitions on the Florida recount, and wondering why there are no senators to support them.

Indeed, those absent senators include John Kerry, Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy, among others, which Moore does not elaborate upon. At no point are liberals or Democrats taken to task for not supporting these elected officials, and I would have liked to have seen that.

On the other hand, there are more than enough moments that seemed to resonate with the huge Ziegfeld audience.

The most indelible is Bush's reaction to hearing on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, that the first plane had crashed into the World Trade Center.

Bush was reading to a grade-school class in Florida at that moment. Instead of jumping up and leaving, he instead sat in front of the class, with an unfortunate look of confusion, for nearly 11 minutes.

Moore obtained the footage from a teacher at the school who videotaped the morning program. There Bush sits, with no access to his advisers, while New York is being viciously attacked. I guarantee you that no one who sees this film forgets this episode.

More than even "The Passion of the Christ," "F9/11" is going to be a "see it for yourself" movie when it hits theaters on June 25. It simply cannot be missed, and I predict it will be a huge moneymaker.

And that's where Disney's Michael Eisner comes in. Not releasing this film will turn out to be the curse of his career.

When Eisner came into Disney years ago, the studio was at a low point. He turned it around with a revived animation department and comedy hits such as "Pretty Woman" and "Down and Out in Beverly Hills."

But Eisner's short-sightedness on many recent matters has been his undoing. And this last misadventure is one that will follow him right out the doors of the Magic Kingdom.

NikkiD
06-27-2004, 11:20 PM
Hey! If you are coing to make a point - please state your arguements. In your post, I see not clear information as to your beliefs! If you can provide a little more research as to why you believe the way that you do, I would like to read it! SO far, you are only saying that you do not like President Bush. I do not consider that an act of treason, what I do consider an act of treason is making a documentary that is slanderous of the leader of our country.
Big D


:stop: Look out, it's the treason police!!! :stop:

Madcap
06-27-2004, 11:25 PM
Considering the fact that TREASON is a crime punishable by death, people need to stop slinging that word around as easily as they do. Free speech isn't easy, half the time you won't like what you hear.

RYAN
06-27-2004, 11:32 PM
Big D - How are you so painfully Naive ? What you need to go do is go watch the movie for yourself and see what's up. Instead of talking about it, be about it. Close-minded people like yourself will have the most to learn from this movie.

For the record I don't agree with everything Moore does and says but he makes enough valid factual points in this movie that as a responsible american everyone should see this movie. It shows politics at their nastiest, the stuff they don't show on the heavily government media we have in this country. Just seeing the irrefutible facts surrounding the election, Bush's history and the obscure footage of Bush is enough reason to see the movie.

I guess my point is don't talk shit about the movie when you haven't seen it. Do yourself a favor, take 8 bucks, go see the movie and then come back and join the conversation.

Madcap
06-28-2004, 12:00 AM
Dallas has her opinion, that's cool. I wish she wouldn;t use the word "Treason" (Considering it's a crime comparable to Murder on the books) but what can ya do. She may have seen Bowling for Columbine and formulater her thoughts based on that.

Personally, i think Moore is more about Moore than he is about anything else. But, sure, i'll see his propaganda. It's like Al Franken, at least he's entertaining.

seraya
06-28-2004, 04:58 AM
A little harsh don't you thinK? I am very spiritual. It is obvious that you are not...what a shame.

Applaud you? Shit! I'd like to smack you across the face!

You should be ashamed. :spit: :dunce:

Are you doing too many drugs? Yes, it is all a conspiracy to fuck you!

However, I would not bash you for your beliefs.


"However i would not want to bash your beliefs" WTF! are you kidding me?

Oh and btw great comments .. how very "spritual" and "christain-like" of you ::)

Seraya.

montythegeek
06-28-2004, 06:00 AM
If anyone believes this is an accurate representation of reality, remind yourself of Hollywood's portrayal of dancers/strippers.

Then keep telling yourself "This movie is different. This movie is different."

Melonie
06-28-2004, 06:36 AM
LOL, where have you been the last 4 years, that's exactly what has already happened under Bush, have you seen the size of the deficit Bush has run up, have you seen the rise in unemployment, the outsourcing of jobs, the stagnating wages, all of which lead to a poor stock market and less "discretionary" spending money.

If you'll check the stock market ticker you'll see that the downturn happened in the summer/fall of 1999, and George W. wasn't inaugurated until January 2001. While a lot of the aftermath of the economic downturn continued to hit on Bush's watch, the seeds of that downturn were planted throughout the second half of the '90's as a result of Bill Clinton's economic policies. These included incremental tax increases, tons of additional government regulations on businesses, a strengthening US dollar etc.

Most of the actual decisions made by US corporations to start moving offshore were made in the late 90's - however it took a couple of years for those decisions to become reality. This time lag between cause and effect is typical, and also explains why it took a year or so for Bush's tax cuts to re-stimulate the economy, and for the stock market to return to the same level it was at when Bush took office.

Lexi
06-28-2004, 08:30 AM
Pathetic is coming on to this site and making a comlete ass of yourself! Kiss my republican, educated, non-abortion having :moon:

Big D



70% of MEN are against abortion. 100% of these men will never get pregnant.
Oh and of course you are a non-abortion having :moon: You are a man. ::)

Pamela
06-28-2004, 08:52 AM
Wow what a thread! :-\

When it comes out on DVD if my ex (who watches movies at home) asks me over. Other than that, i wont pay to see it.

Pamela

Lexi
06-28-2004, 09:01 AM
Hey for some reason I thought your name was Big DJ (oops) ;)
Anyway my comment was if you were male. Obviously ANY one is entitled to theirr own opinion regarding abortion. I was saying though, that men are usually the ones who are against it...

doc-catfish
06-28-2004, 09:28 AM
I do not consider that an act of treason, what I do consider an act of treason is making a documentary that is slanderous of the leader of our country.
Big D

Would this include potential numerous acts of "treason" commited between January 1993 and January 2001? I'm curious.
::)