View Full Version : Is there a reason
Vyanka
09-07-2004, 01:27 PM
Boys boys boys!!! If you're gonna get offended about something I said, make sure you're at least getting what I said right. The quote was:
However, for most women who specifically say they'd never date a customer of their bar, it's a respect issue: They can't respect a guy they see as desperate enough to have to pay for feminine attention.
This IN NO WAY means I see customers this way. It was an answer to a generalized question about why so many dancers say they'd never date a customer.
And yeah, I gotta agree with DJoser about the customers' illusions he refers to, and how most seem so desperate to hang on to them. Sure, most guys who go to SCs aren't desperate losers. But you can damn well bet if you're trying to ask a stripper out while she's working, she's almost certainly gonna see you as one!
You hit that right on the nail. :)
Pazzo
09-07-2004, 01:42 PM
I wouldn't date anyone where I worked at, no matter what kind of job. IMO, it's better that way.
i am never coming into your club ever LOL
Vyanka
09-07-2004, 01:59 PM
I wouldn't date anyone where I worked at, no matter what kind of job. IMO, it's better that way.
i am never coming into your club ever LOL
Yeah you are bc you're my Boardie Friend, haha.
RaggDoll
09-07-2004, 02:24 PM
Sure, most guys who go to SCs aren't desperate losers. But you can damn well bet if you're trying to ask a stripper out while she's working, she's almost certainly gonna see you as one!
I always preferred to look at everyone as a "potential investor." And having good "investor relations" is most profitable for any company. ;D
kitana
09-07-2004, 03:01 PM
I wish i could say fairy tale endings,but nope,its nightmare on elm street!
I know im always a stick in the mud when it comes to this topic,but it always ends bad.
Your work will suffer with your SO in the club.If he works there,its even worse.
Not always true M&M, I usually do much better when my hubby is at work. I guess it's because of the whole he's watching me thing. I turns me on and I dance a little more seductive, just a little more flirty and definately more aggressive. And it helps when he scopes out the guys for me too. He has also been know to be my schill from time to time.
We also worked together before in a SC. He was a part time replacement DJ till we could find a new one. Our full time DJ went to jail for back child support, and we needed a new one to fill in ASAP. He didn't do too bad, but he also made sure that he didn't play favs or anything. And bonus for me, I didn't have to tip out the 10% to the DJ for those 2 weeks either!!! LOL
I can see how it could be a problem, but for us it wasen't. But we are a different animal too. No jealously or anything like that in this relationship.
Kitana
Pazzo
09-07-2004, 03:03 PM
" you can't meet someone in a bar"
"you can't meet someone in a club"
i think you can meet anyone anywhere. You just never know where you might meet that right person.
BigGreenMnM
09-07-2004, 04:37 PM
yes that is true pazzo,but its this industry that kills relationships faster then cops or navy.
Its the business thats bad for relationships.
If you happen to meet the right person,just dont act on it till your out.
Pazzo
09-07-2004, 04:44 PM
yes that is true pazzo,but its this industry that kills relationships faster then cops or navy.
Its the business thats bad for relationships.
If you happen to meet the right person,just dont act on it till your out.
maybe meeting the right person might cause them to want to leave.
BigGreenMnM
09-07-2004, 05:12 PM
the odds of Mr right riding in and scooping up the fair maiden on a white horse are reeeeeaaaaaaallllllll slim.
Most of the times its the black knight in stealth mode.
odds are Like the Redskins winning the superbowl this year,or beating the cowboys.
playboycntrfold
09-07-2004, 05:35 PM
In spite of the recent proliferation of customer posters, leading inevitably to even more of these kinds of posts--this is supposed to be a forum for dancers, primarily to discuss issues related to dancing. Always maintaining a politically correct attitude towards customers kind of defeats the purpose.
:great: good point djoser. Ranting about a dancer's PC-ness... now that's what the blue site is for! hahahaha...
Im with Audiense...but for a different reason....
OUT OF ALL THE GUYS I KNOW.....I ONLY KNOW ONE THAT HAS NEVER BEEN TO A STRIP CLUB....and if I have anything to say about it soon enough I wont know any.
ALL GUYS have been to strip clubs at one time or another.
So if you want to assume that we're all "desperate enough to have to pay for female attention" thats your choice.
Im not advocating dating someone you meet at work....just dont use that excuse b/c it doesnt make any sense....b/c 90% of all men have been to one at some point....your dad, your uncle, your brother, your doctor, etc...they've all been to strip clubs....hell im sure the president of this country has been to one.
Shit i even think most women now have been to a strip club at some point in their lives....so i guess we're all desperate enough to have to pay for attention :-\
Just making a point
I agree Ain. everyone with any kind of wild side has been to a strip club before. :laughing: Hell, that's where all my gf's took me when I turned 18! (And we had one HELL of a time with the gals!;)) But, as B re-posted, the only time a dancer thinks a guys is a desperate loser is if he chooses to ask her out in that setting.
........
:thinking:
........
...............
.....................
???
So, I guess you're kinda screwd, because *I was just thinking about it* what if you REALLY do like her, and like you said: you aren't one of those guys who frequents the place, or any SC for that matter. What are you supposed to do? You can't "accidentally" run into her anywhere else, or she'll think you're a prev, AND a stalker! That sux kinda.
I've had a guy that seemed VERY normal, and non-pervish tell me: "you're such an awesome chick, I wish we'd met at wal-mart. :(" LOL
:shrug:
RaggDoll
09-07-2004, 07:32 PM
but its this industry that kills relationships faster then cops or navy.
Its the business thats bad for relationships.
I disagree with you. It's not the business or industry that is bad for relationships.
It's jealousy, immaturity and lack of trust, most times due to low self esteem in one's self.
If you know whom you are and what you want and your SO feels the same, anything can work. You can't blame bad relationships on this industry.
Go to your local large office and see the number of mini-Payton Place's that are in the making. Bad relationships are everywhere.
BigGreenMnM
09-07-2004, 08:22 PM
yes they are,but you have to admit,most of the ones you see in this industry are disfunctunal<sp> more then others.
This industry adds more to the mix then normal jobs.
CrescentLuna
09-07-2004, 11:29 PM
I dunno, I think when I come home with quotes like this:
"So, are you ready for that dance?"
guy: "uhm... er.. I dunno."
other guy: "Com'on man! Roll that d10! get some experience points! Think of it as a quest!"
It just warms my bf's heart. ;)
Meh, I dunno, it's seriously more ups and downs, one night I'm needing lots of comfort and hugs because it sucked, the next I'm elated and we're celebrating with milkshakes and porn. One week we can't do anything fun, the next we're at the Ren Faire spending - ahem - probably more than I did on books this semester.
Also, dude, I love my fellow dancers but some of them are not the most stable people to begin with, anyone in a relationship with a coke head mother of 3 with a history of mental illness is gonna be a tad dysfunctional no matter what.
Djoser
09-08-2004, 09:20 AM
Go to your local large office and see the number of mini-Payton Place's that are in the making. Bad relationships are everywhere.
This is of course true, but the "problem workers" in your typical office situation are not giving handjobs for 20$ a song, and they are in even the nicest clubs in many areas of the country.
Guys certainly are prone to letting their bestial nature run free entirely too often, whether they are at work or not. But put them around a lot of beautiful women in thongs who will rub all over them for a modest amount of money, and you will see much worse behavior than Mr. Jones leering at the secretarial pool again.
It is a fact that so many of these women are just doing a job, and give the same dance to every one of the thousand or so guys a year they deal with, and it really doesn't mean anything.
But that fact is pretty hard for most guys to really understand, whether they be boyfriends and husbands who want to trust, or customers who are obsessed with making it impossible to maintain any kind of trust.
These conditions up the ante, and make meaningful, lasting, trusting relationships extremely rare and difficult to maintain.
The members of StripperWeb tend to be exceptional, and while I do not doubt the validity of their relationships (hell, I'm in one myself), I don't think it is at all common in this business. God knows I didn't see any that were worth a damn in Daytona Beach, in four years on the job, dealing with over a thousand dancers. Maybe I've forgotten in the few months I've been up here, but I doubt it.
RaggDoll
09-08-2004, 10:03 AM
But that fact is pretty hard for most guys to really understand, whether they be boyfriends and husbands who want to trust, or customers who are obsessed with making it impossible to maintain any kind of trust.
These conditions up the ante, and make meaningful, lasting, trusting relationships extremely rare and difficult to maintain.
Things are only as impossible as YOU let them be.
I wasn't talking about $20 a pop blow-job queens. I was talking about people that want a relationship. Try to stay on track.
Also, the crack-head mother with three kids and a histroy of mental illness. She's everywhere. Not just the clubs. She's running the cash register where you get gas, she's stocking the milk you stop to pick up.
She may not be on crack there, she may be on legitimate prescription drugs. Pain killers are big dope these days ... but, to be sure, look around she's everywhere. And so is her co-hort, for that matter. You know, the father of the three kids that acts like they aren't his.
Face it folks ... this industry can be as professional as YOU make it! It's not just a job, for most. IT'S A BUSINESS! And there are women that are making a killing at it. They own ranches, yachts, PhD's.
If you treat it as a business, you can do extremely well.
And excuse me there, Mr. You may be a DJ ... but, you've never been THE DANCER. So, you will NEVER have a clue about it. Sorry that your stint in Daytona was such a let down. However, you are free to surround yourself with the people of your choice. Use that freedom or quite complaining about it.
Vyanka
09-08-2004, 10:16 AM
Hey Paz, you around? I'm bored in my office. :-\
Pazzo
09-08-2004, 10:26 AM
Hey Paz, you around? I'm bored in my office. :-\
hmmm is that an invitation to come play under your desk.
;D
BigGreenMnM
09-08-2004, 11:40 AM
Go to your local large office and see the number of mini-Payton Place's that are in the making. Bad relationships are everywhere.
Careful Pazzo!!!!!
Unlike stripper world,in a real world office setting,you can actually be charged with sexual harrassment.
Tigerlilly
09-08-2004, 12:09 PM
Is there a reason ::)
Yes.
There are many more reason NOT to date a customer when you get down to it than there are reasons to date one.
onlythebest
09-08-2004, 12:19 PM
Peyton Place???Now that's old school sh*t!LMAO!!!
LeanneCiccone
09-08-2004, 12:24 PM
As DJoser said:
"The members of StripperWeb tend to be exceptional"
Youre definitely right - because the really messed up/sucked into the industry dancers dont have computers, or dont care to use one if they do.
We all know the girls who are so wrapped up in the "club life" that they dont care to reach out to anyone or hear anyone elses opinion! Much less PAY for internet and read peoples opinions and experiences all day...
Also, to get back on topic -
Men that go to SC's are definitely not all losers who have to pay to get attention from women... BUT...
the men who come several times a week to get LD's and beg said dancer to go on dates, meet him after work, etc. etc. etc. while being strung along by the dancer in hopes of making more money...
THOSE are the losers we're referring to.
Also, may be hypocritical given my job, whatever, but this is the way I see it --
guys who go to strip clubs regularly are probably more likely to cheat.
Period. And there are probably lots of men who think because I dance on the weekends Im more likely to cheat on THEM, so they discriminate. Whatever. From what Ive seen, thats the way its been.
Djoser
09-08-2004, 02:31 PM
Things are only as impossible as YOU let them be.
I wasn't talking about $20 a pop blow-job queens. I was talking about people that want a relationship. Try to stay on track.
I AM in a loving and very close relationship with a dancer, and have been for well over a year--about half of which was spent relating long-distance, a situation requiring trust if I ever saw one. So I am on track, thank you.
Also, the crack-head mother with three kids and a histroy of mental illness. She's everywhere. Not just the clubs. She's running the cash register where you get gas, she's stocking the milk you stop to pick up.
There may be some people like this working in convenience stores in your area, and possibly even in that shithole town Daytona, but even there they tend to get fired rather quickly. Besides, you were talking about an office environment, and I have yet to see or hear of an office with crackhead employees who managed to keep their job. Though this, too, may not be impossible.
IT'S A BUSINESS! And there are women that are making a killing at it. They own ranches, yachts, PhD's.
Once again you are correct, but the subject was maintaining a successful relationship. My girlfriend is quite likely to get a PhD--since she is doing so phenomenally well with so little effort at an excellent university--and there are a few dancers out there who have them. But very few who have successful relationships, from what I have seen.
And excuse me there, Mr. You may be a DJ ... but, you've never been THE DANCER. So, you will NEVER have a clue about it.
And here we have the crux of the biscuit. No, I have never been a dancer. Working with over a thousand of them may have left me without a clue as to what it's really like. The fact that, while working with my girlfriend, I have pointed out a guy who liked her and sent her into VIP with him with the sexiest songs I had might not obviate that I have no way got what it takes to understand her job. She can tell me stories, night after night, about her strange experiences, and I still might not have a clue.
But I have a lot better idea what it takes than the guys who are so hung up on trying to date dancers, who keep posting here about it over and over again, and who keep interrupting that lap dance to ask for a date. Guys like these love to see posts telling them how easy it is, that's why they are here.
However, you are free to surround yourself with the people of your choice. Use that freedom or quite complaining about it.
I did use that freedom, thank you, and got the hell out of Daytona Beach.
To Detroit, where the owners of more than one strip club are, guess what, fucking their employees and firing them if they don't fuck their friends.
Guess how likely it would be that a court of law will rule against them if the dancers were stupid enough to try bringing up sexual harassment charges?
This is a reality that is quite different from that found in the offices of Prudential Insurance, whether or not they might let a crackhead or two slip by them.
Maybe the club you work in is run by true gentlemen who would never dream of taking advantage of their employees--and would manfully accept justice if they did cross the line--and has lots of patient, understanding, trusting customers who would make wonderful husbands and lovers. But it would be the exception rather than the rule.
CrescentLuna
09-08-2004, 03:32 PM
RaggDoll, yes, there are plenty of strippers that are intelligent, successful and have stable enough lives to have a good relationship. That being said, look at the thread asking how many girls at your club are on drugs, a lot more than you are probably going to find at your regular office job or at the gas station. Buried elsewhere is another thread about the relative intelligence of dancers. You don't have to have ANY education to be a dancer, if you're hot and can say "wannadance?" and in a moderately busy club you can make quite a decent income. There are many dancers at my club that have been trying to leave, or leave for brief amounts of time, but find it IMPOSSIBLE to hold down a normal job, so they come back.
My whole point was, dancers and customers are not a normal sample of population. Saying you have just as much of a chance of two normal people meeting and starting a lovely relationship there as anywhere else is just not true - neither is saying it is all the fault of the insecurity in one partner.
Melonie
09-08-2004, 04:12 PM
If you let it, dancing can bring out the worst in people ... both customers and dancers. While any professional dancer will stay above it, so to speak, she still has to face a rough equivalent of 'cop syndrome'. If 8 hours of her day is spend interacting with men who are strip club customers, who are telling the dancer that in effect they are married but very ready to cheat on their wife - who are thinking with the 'little head' every minute - who are spending big money on the dancer while at the same time referring to financial problems/fear of job loss etc. - it eventually makes a subconscious impression on the dancer that ALL men have a similar nature.
Pazzo
09-08-2004, 04:35 PM
Nothing wrong with Cops. My cousin is married to a police officer. I know he would never ever cheat on her.
RaggDoll
09-08-2004, 04:52 PM
I like cops! Know a number of the local undercover group. They are way cool!
Djoser ... Detroit is my home! I'm from the Gratiot/9-10 mile area! Small world, eh?
Oh, and I'm retired. ;) However, if it was me working at the club you speak of ... I would have packed up and left immediately.
Djoser
09-08-2004, 05:21 PM
Hey, nice to meet a neighbor!
I'm originally from the 7 Mile and Southfield Freeway area. I moved away and have lived all over the country since then but have recently come back--actually to Ann Arbor, but my girlfriend has worked in about ten Detroit clubs, as she is now. I will PM you if you don't mind, and we can compare our Motor City experiences.
I think that things have gotten worse in this business in the past 5-10 years, in Detroit and the rest of the country. I abhor the increased levels of what I see as harassment of dancers, both from management and from customers.
The increased levels of contact may make it easier for women who don't mind it to make a lot of money, but I think it puts a lot more strain on them, especially long term. There is a lot less emphasis on the performance, and a lot more on customers' seeing how far they can go. This doesn't bode well for the dancers' view of customers, and vica versa.
I also think it tends to encourage the frequency and intensity of customers attempting to date the dancers, which is perhaps only human, but nonetheless irritating for most dancers after a while.
I would love to see a return to stage performance being the most important element, which would go a long way towards alleviating the problem. But it is unlikely, especially in our hometown, sad to say.
CrescentLuna
09-08-2004, 06:22 PM
My bf's brother was saying that burlesque shows are trying to make a come-back [and that they were really great and I should try working one sometimes]. however, one of their problems is you probably aren't going to make as much as you would selling lap dances. :P
GoldCoastGirl
09-08-2004, 09:34 PM
If you happen to meet the right person,just dont act on it till your out.
....and if I had done that.. I probably wouldn't be having the fun I'm having with my Mt Isa Boy. At the same time.. he never asked me out inside the club... he just gave me his number. He left it in my hands to call or not.. and I'm glad I did.
;D
So, I guess you're kinda screwd, because *I was just thinking about it* what if you REALLY do like her, and like you said: you aren't one of those guys who frequents the place, or any SC for that matter. What are you supposed to do? You can't "accidentally" run into her anywhere else, or she'll think you're a prev, AND a stalker! That sux kinda.
I would say that if she wasn't going to be returning to the club.. it wasn't her home club nor her home town.. then take a chance and give her your number. Do not ask her out in the club.. just give her the number with the remark.. "call me if you like". Allow it to be up to her.. and if she doesn't call within the first week.. she won't call.
..... about half of which was spent relating long-distance .....
Man.. am I ever in the same boat right now! Mt Isa Guy works out in the mines for 3 weeks... has a week off.. he's planning on coming down in that off week to see me.. and same with the next week he has off.. he also lives with his folks in Mt Isa due to wanting to get rid of some serious debt. He's told me it should be gone by year end.. therefore.. he wants to move closer (Brisbane or Gold Coast) after he has his debt paid off.
I can trust him as there isn't a strip club for ages where he is.. and that the Mt Isa strip club I met him in.. he doesn't do dances with the 'local' talent (they aren't that attractive AT ALL).
;D