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sallylou
08-22-2003, 06:56 AM
Some of you have said that the dancer will ask you for a tip...

How exactly is this approached?

If you're asked, do you pay her extra or laugh at her?

A guy the other night asked me when I was about to start..."Oh, and how much is your tip requirment?"
I giggled and said, "Well, you can tip me if you're happy with the dance, but it already costs $20! I think that's plenty enough. I don't 'require' a tip" He looked at me funny and then gave me just the price of the dances at the end... I'm guessing he liked it because he did 8 dances, but I was left a little confused... What should I have said? Did he not like the dances? He said thank-you and was smiling at the end, but I'm still confused. Why did he ask about the tipping thing?

Any ideas?

Luv,
Amber

Spanky
08-22-2003, 07:07 AM
Hi Amber,

I've never had a girl ask for a tip, let alone set out a tip requirement. I generally tip $10 - $20 for a few LDs depending on the girl and how good the dances were. Most girls appreciate the tips with a nice thank you or even a "thats not necessary". Other girls don't even aknowledge that I gave them a tip, which I remember for next time. Some times I can see the issue with girls who don't aknowledge; last week I had 4 dances with a dancer I know and gave her 5 twenties. Knowing me, she never counts the money, just folds it into her ankle strap. I would have thought she would thank me later after she counted it in the back (if she ever did), but nothing?

But getting back to your question, if the guy have a series of dances, he obviuosly had a nice time and in that case I always tip.

BTW, thanks for the response to my e-mail question. I went to the club last night and when my ATF's friend "expected" her dance, I told her that the night was exclusive with my ATF. She said, not even one dance? And I held to my guns and said, maybe next visit. She smiled and said OK , but didn't stop by to say hello the rest of the night.

radiowinz
08-22-2003, 08:47 AM
I know that it shouldn't be this way, but the quality of my ATF's VIP's with me absolutely went through the roof once I started tipping her. She got more imaginative and inventive, while still keeping within the rules of the club and not jeapardizing her job, and also only doing what she was comfortable with doing within her own personal boundaries.

electric_head
08-22-2003, 09:27 AM
I've never been asked either. I guess it would depend on the mood.

08-22-2003, 09:30 AM
Figuring $20 per lap dance, and an admittedly unrealistic figure of 15 lap dances an hour, that's $300 an hour before the club's cut, payouts and [ahem] taxes. Let's say a net of ~$130 an hour. That's more than a lot of MD's and most attorneys.

In my mind, that's more than fair compensation. Even a percentage of that amount is reasonable, frankly.

But, if someone wants to tip over and above the prevailing rate, that's their business. I've been asked for a tip once before (and I typically get 2 dances per "session"), and countered with a courteous decline.

Richard_Head
08-22-2003, 11:19 AM
Some of you have said that the dancer will ask you for a tip...
Any dancer that asks me for a tip will not be getting much of my business, you did the right thing, perhaps he was so impressed by your answer that he got 8 dances instead of 2-3, who knows. The trick for any dancer is to convince us PL's that it's not all about the $$$, once you do that you've got them hooked, not only for that one visit but probably for regular visits. Too many dancers take a short term outlook and I think that it costs them in the long run.

FBR
08-22-2003, 12:09 PM
Amber, after 8 dances (which obviously were good :P) he probably should have given you at least a $50 tip...I would have ;D. On the other hand, $160 bucks for about a half hours work aint bad money. It takes me over an hour to make that ::) LOL

I dont know that there is a good way to discuss tipping, especially up front. A tip, by definition, is earned and given after the service is provided but is totally up to the generosity of the recipient.

Your response to his question was honest and professional as I would have expected. Dont feel like a chump for being honest. I think thats why you do as well as you do...the customers dont feel conned.

As far as why he asked the question in the first place, he probably knew exactly how much money he had on him and was simply trying to figure how many dances he could afford. If a tip was "required" then he would have done fewer dances. The money exchanged most likely would have been the same either way. But I cant blame him for opting for the extra dances 8)

sol_de_pr2
08-22-2003, 12:12 PM
I've been asked for extra dough BEFORE the actual dance, usually for "naughty stuff" ;). I've also been asked for tips after the dance, but just on occasion.

fishnet
08-22-2003, 12:17 PM
Amber, I think that was just his way of asking what you charge per dance. Since you are independent contractors, anything given is technically a tip. Some girls at my club charge $25-$40 a dance even though menu price is $20. He just didn't want any surprises at the end.

One member on out board wrote about getting 30 dances on a VIP night. It should have been $300. She told him after the fact she charges $20 on VIP night's anyway so he paid $600. He was definitely ripped off and should have asked for the manager. That is what your customer was trying to avoid imho. ;)

Scarlett
08-22-2003, 01:26 PM
I guess this is a good place to ask....

When someone at my club asks me how much dances are (someone I've been sitting with) I usually say $10 plus if you'd like to tip on top of that. My point is to let them know how much dances are and that if they'd like to tip on top of it, it would be appreciated (which I always do for either a $2 or $10 tip all the same).

Do you guys think I'm coming across badly? When I tell them the price, they usually smile and by the end of my dance tip me pretty well anyway.

Unfortunately my club is a very strict air-lap place, hence the pretty low price. I of course bend the rules every chance I can get (and usually get tapped for it) but hey, I'm just trying to have a good time - nobody likes a prude! ;)

TrixieFL
08-22-2003, 01:27 PM
Amber, was he from another city? I've never seen or heard of this in any of the states I've danced in, but I have a friend in penn. He tells me dances there cost a certain amount and every girl requires you to tip on top of what you pay for a dance. Maybe he was used to clubs like that. I think thats nuts. LOL

witt
08-22-2003, 03:09 PM
I have been ask for a tip several times. Normally they say something like you can touch if you tip. The worst for me is when they ask right after dance( while I'm getting my money out) they say "you are going to tip me right ?" It ruins the whole dance. If I was going to tip it makes me not want to.

Scarlett to answer your question, I have had several dancers say the same thing. To me it is not a big deal, but slightly offputting.I know I can tip (and usually do), so I do not need to be reminded, but like I said earlier no big deal.

I just wanted to add if I tip after being ask I don't feel good about it, I feel more like she is trying to manipulate me, if I tip without being ask I do feel good about it and I feel that it is more appreciated.

fishnet
08-22-2003, 03:22 PM
Scarlett, I would recommend just giving the price of a dance and not mentioning the tip. See if there is a noticable drop in income after a week or two. I would not appreciate a dancer telling me that. Most of the time I feel like a target simply because everyone knows how much time I spend in the VIP. A dancer trying to get deeper in my pockets before they even danced for me would be a turnoff. How would you feel if a waitress, after giving you a spiel about the specials said: The standard tip if 15% but you can tip 20-25% if you want? My guess is you would be inclined to stiff her even if the service was good... My 2 cents. ::)

08-24-2003, 11:24 AM
The math is correct, but the overall analysis doesn't jibe. An attorney or a doctor (the attorneys here, BTW are $200/hr - doctors are probably $300/hr on up) will make that every hour, all day, every day. In fact, by having minimum increments, they can charge more than that (although collections drop it back down).....

The analysis holds up. Let's take attorneys, for example.

The average lawyer in the US makes $35 an hour, or $73K a year. This is a national average, and accounts for a myriad of situations. Obviously you'll have exceptions. Certain regions and disciplines will be inflated.

Let's remember this is a gross dollar amount, and figuring an unlikely 40 hour work week. Taxes will also signficantly change things.

To consider, a family practice MD is at $136K a year, or $66 an hour (using a highly unlikely 40 hour work week). These figures are adjusted to factor in the rather high overhead both professions attract: insurance, staffing, collections, facilities, etc.

All that said, my hypothetical $130 an hour net for a dancer was pretty generous. Not much overhead aside from lucite heels and thongs. Granted, there is down-time and production (can I call a lap dance "production? ;D ) isn't consistent, but it's a hell of a way to go, comparatively.

fishnet
08-24-2003, 12:10 PM
I don't think the math holds up either. My divorce attorney was $250 and hour. ::) I can't believe the national average is only $35 and hour. Why couldn't my divorce have taken place in a cheaper state? LOL.

sander8son
08-24-2003, 12:14 PM
ok, i havne't realy read this thread, got bored after the first couple responses.......

ive had girls mention tips to me after a dance, i'll usualy give them $2 and never get dances from them again. no such thing as a "required" tip...thats not a tip, but a fee.

guy who asked you about the required tip might have been looking for extras or something, who knows. obviously he liked the dances, he got 8 from you.... seeing as you takehome most of that, its basically all tip to start with. by keeping you for 8 songs, hes increasing the money you make versus getting just two dances, then you haveing to get dressed and find your next victem(which takes a couple songs). id say, tipping is more nescessary when getting fewer dances then more.....after all, when people buy in bulk they usualy get a discount anyway.

i forget what the point of this was....anyway, never ask for a tip.......thats my tip to you.

#8_Fan
08-24-2003, 02:07 PM
I've never been asked for a tip before or after a dance. I also never tip extra just the price of the dance. If I enjoy the dance I'll get more dances from them and tip them on stage. Amber I don't think anybody going to get 8 dances in a row unless they are really enjoying them. I think by saying no tip required he got more dances then he would have so I think you came out ahead.

cmkrnl
08-26-2003, 11:51 PM
So when you are in a restaurant and you get really good service you tip 20%. When you are in a SC and you get 5 dances at $20 per and they are great (or you would not have gotten 5) you should throw in an extra $20. Good service is good service. After 8 dances the guy should have thrown you at least an extra $20 if not $30. I have been asked for a tip. Doesn't happen often.

Sometimes a girl will quote a price and say tipping is optional. I know that of course so she may score negative points but that would depend on my mood. Mostly I am there with a really upbeat attitude and let the SS slide totally. I may give a chuckle when they give me a low key hustle like that though.

I talked with one dancer as we waited for the next song. She mentioned tipping and I told her I would buy 3 dances and tip the price of the 4th if the 3 were 'worth it'. She looked at me and said 'Oh, they'll be worth it'. And they were! That kind of up front negotiating is not only productive but entertaining as well.

espy
08-27-2003, 08:18 AM
Kinda what Trixie said, it all depends on the club and what state they are in. Examples:

Dover DE - dancer finished the stage set and circled the room collecting tips. I said, " are you kidding me? I tipped you during your stage set. Thinking back to another post, that club you could sit at tip rail and dancer wouldn't come over to get a tip unless there was a bill in front of you.

Philly club Risqué - same thing, dancer would circle room after stage set because you couldn't reach her to give her tips.

Some dancers in some PVD RI clubs - if you don't put a dollar down on tip rail they won't come by to dance for you.

South Jersey club VE - sit by stage, dancer gives dance, and holds out g or garter.

Orlando - I try hard to forget they have clubs there.

Richard_Head
08-27-2003, 10:16 AM
After 8 dances the guy should have thrown you at least an extra $20 if not $30.
Let's see, the guy got 8 dances @ $20/dance, that's $160, not bad for what I'm assuming is less than an hour's work, I'm guessing that in this day and age most dancer's would love customers like this, you seem to be implying that he's a cheapskate because he didn't throw an additional tip on top, I don't get it.

cmkrnl
08-27-2003, 11:37 PM
Not a cheapskate necessarily. I do not know his particulars. Maybe it was all he had, maybe it ended worse than it began and he was dissatisfied. Maybe he was from out of town and figured he'll never be back again so screw 'em. Maybe he just doesn't tip in these situations. It's all cool. I'm just saying that for really good personal service a tip is kind and generous thing and that we routinely tip for far less personal services than this.

DenverD
08-28-2003, 07:32 AM
I don't expect tips from laps, but if the guy asks, I tell them it's not required, but it is very much appreciated. I usually don't get anything, even if they ask. There are other dancers I work with that do the opposite, they quote the price and tell them there is a mandatory 5$ tip per song plus the dance price, or they won't do it at all. ( the five dollars covers their dance fee) Guys actually do this!!! Why, I don't know, maybe they like the abuse??? They get more from the other girls than me, and I assure you, all our laps are the same, as we are monitored, and I am one of the three best looking girls in the club. Must be a fetish amoung longmont and loveland residents to be treated poorly! Maybe they don't like proffessional nice girls, and would rather be bullied...Sorry, went off on a rant..

>:(

merely_lurking
08-28-2003, 08:04 AM
I will never tip if a dancer asks for it. If the dances are good, I will usually just get more dances and then maybe add a little extra after all of the dances are over. If the initial dance was lousy and effortless and she asks for a tip, I will usually behave rudely like ball up the $20 for the dance she gave and throw it at her as I get up and walk away from the table. They know when they deserve a tip or not and asking for a tip, while always rude, is especially so when they know they didn't deserve one.
I don't think it is necessary to tip if you received a lot of dances and they were good. The whole idea is that if you like the dancer and she is entertaining you, you will buy more dances. Buying more dances is the tip, unless you had an especially good time and feel like giving her extra.

Scarlett
08-28-2003, 02:33 PM
Out of town, can't get online much...

Thanks for the input guys. Fish, in fact I used to just quote the price of the dance and get the price of the dance - $10, now when I say "...if you would like to tip...", along with the price of the dance, I usually get $15-20 for a dance, in fact it's less usual to get the flat $10. (Then of course I like to think I give good dance ;))

A lot of the guys are from out of town and ask because they are not sure. I feel like I open the door to more money without expectation and my appreciation never changes with the amount of money. I also know all of the regulars at the club and local guys and I never come across to them that I expect a tip because I don't, in fact they don't ask anyway so it's never an issue.

There are girls at my club that tell guys dances with them are more than the house price which in some ways I think can be rude but if guys pay it then fair game. I'd rather leave it up to the customer to decide if they'd like to tip or not.

(BTW - I agree with merely-lurking's last post)

cmkrnl
08-28-2003, 11:39 PM
I don't get tipped for what I do. I send an invoice, and it gets paid.



But are you rubbing your breasts all over your customers face?

Alanna
09-01-2003, 05:17 AM
Amber, was he from another city? I've never seen or heard of this in any of the states I've danced in, but I have a friend in penn. He tells me dances there cost a certain amount and every girl requires you to tip on top of what you pay for a dance. Maybe he was used to clubs like that. I think thats nuts.

it is nuts. it's also not true... at least i know it isn't in the eastern part of PA. i don't know of any club in PA where there's any kind of "required" tip (and i absolutely agree that a "required tip" is fee). sounds to me like a lot of girls are using that as a dumb line in order to make sure they get a tip... very short sighted and might get her ass fired. because most clubs here have a set dance price and the club takes a cut from every dance, i know a lot of girls will mention something like "most guys tip a little extra since they know that the club is getting a portion of the dance price" or some such thing. guys from out of town tend to be very surprised that not only can dancers not charge what they please either under or over the standard but that the club gets as much as 50% of the dance price (although the more usual club portion is more like 25% for a lap dance).

in any case, i think asking for a tip is ridiculous. tactfully mentioning that tipping is customary but NOT required is understandable... the customer isn't put on the spot and can tip or not tip as they please. it's been my experience that most customers want to do whatever is customary. personally, i usually only bring up the tipping issue if i already know that the customer is unfamiliar with the general system here and i'll incorporate it with other local system info. most of the time, out-of-towners come right out and ask what's customary. to bring the tipping issue up herself, the dancer really needs to be tactful about it so not to offend or come off as greedy.

doc-catfish
09-01-2003, 01:48 PM
I've been asked for tips on a number of occasions, and as long as it was a decent dance I don't seem to mind. I'm assuming that the practice is perhaps more common in clubs where the club takes a hefty cut of the dance money.

When the dance price is $10 or less or if its 2-for-1 night, I'll even throw a little more on without being asked.

But since the subject was brought up...
[grr]
I DO think there are a few dancers out there that need to keep things in perspective and realize that for a lot of guys $20 is 2 to 3 hours of pay (before taxes) which has been handed over to them for what is seldom more than 4 minutes of work. Just my gripe.

FBR
09-01-2003, 02:08 PM
Never been asked for a tip but my club is low hustle so no big surprise. I do most of my tipping with my regular ladies. Its more of a show of friendship that doesnt necessarily relate to the dances. On the occasion that I dance with a new girl I usually dont tip the first go around. Maybe its a test I dunno. If we click she can join the club and is pretty much guaranteed some good money from then on.

Timbo
09-04-2003, 10:46 AM
For me it's pretty simple. If a dancer asks for a tip, there's not much chance I'll ever buy another dance from her.

yoda57us
09-05-2003, 02:49 AM
I tip occasionally but it's usualy just a case of rounding-off-dances in one club I go to dances are $25 each. If I do 3 dances I just give the girl $80. If you want to tip thats fine but I find it amazing how many guys don't realize that most, if not all of the $20 or so you are paying for a dance goes right into the girls pocket. I have no problem with this-they earn every penny and have house fees and tip-outs to deal with every night-no matter how much they make.