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FoxHunter
03-03-2003, 05:53 AM
What is your opinion of dancers who ask for their money upfront? I have had a several dancers in various cites tell me that bouncers and management will not help them when customers skip out or ask for dances they have no money to pay for...... comments?

witt
03-03-2003, 06:13 AM
The only time I have ever been ask to pay upfront is when I was in a club that you had to pay the club and not the dancer. I would not take offense for a dancer to ask me for money upfront if she did not know me, but after I had bought a dance or two from her I would not like to be ask upfront. Plus it makes harder to tip if you have to reach in your pocket before and after the dance.

Alanna
03-03-2003, 06:38 AM
personally, i don't know of any club that allows payment after the service... at least for the first dance. i've heard of several stories where dancers who didn't get the payment upfront (whether it's for the first dance or additional dances) where the customer either ran out of money unknowingly and didn't have enough to cover their bill, or intentionally tried to run out without paying. so far, i haven't heard of anyone who had management stand behind them in order to get paid, but i have heard that some dancers in this predicament have had success in involving security as long as the customer had means to get the money owed without needing to leave the club (like borrowing the money from a friend that's there with them or using the ATM or a credit card). although occasionally these things happen, thankfully, it seems to be rare... at least in my experience.

although it may be a rare occurance, i know of some clubs that have a ticket system for buying each dance, where in order to get the next dance, another ticket has to be purchased first, but from what i've heard from dancers that work under these systems, they feel it interrupts the flow and makes it more difficult to sell additional dances. personally, i think it's better both for the club and for the dancer if the decision of whether or not to be paid up front for additional dances was left up to the discretion of the dancer as allowing uninterrupted flow does sell a whole lot more dances.

money
03-03-2003, 07:01 AM
I will not pay for a dance beforehand, especially in the clubs that I am a regular at. If a dancer does ask for the money up front, I will leave the area, show her how much $$$ is on my pocket and say "too bad". That is my policy.

EvilCyn
03-03-2003, 07:09 AM
I have never asked for money up front, and have been skipped out on being paid twice in 5 years..... and only for one dance each time.....
I will tell him how many we are at every so often if he continues to have me dance for him.....
I did have a customer get mad and leave a few weeks ago over this one though....
He bought 4 dances...... then mingled some..
Got 4 more from me, I had to excuse my self and go on stage,
I asked to be paid for my 4 dances before going up on stage......
He said meet me back here for more dances and I'll pay you then......
I was not comfortable with that....He paid me for my 4, was pissed off then left.....
Oh Well..... I don't ask for it up front, but I will not walk away from the private dance area without being paid unless it is a regular..

Chuck149
03-03-2003, 08:54 AM
I don't mind paying up front if it is my first time dancing with a particular lady. But for subsequent trips to the LD room with the same lady, I feel "insulted"
I recently was a club where you had to by tickets for dances. I would simply give the dancer the money and she would go to bar and get the tickets. She had to give a cut of each dance to the house and that was their way of controling the money.

Heather_Young
03-03-2003, 09:06 AM
If a dancer does ask for the money up front, I will leave the area, show her how much $$$ is on my pocket and say "too bad".
I bet that has gotten you laughed at by alot of dancers over the years.

SuperDude
03-03-2003, 09:35 AM
On the other hand: "I've got to go on stage." "Well, let me pay you now for the great dances we just had." "No, pay me after I come off stage, maybe we'll have more." It gets me every time. The only time I came up short, I borrowed the money in the club and paid the dancer.

money
03-03-2003, 03:25 PM
No, not too many laugh at me at the main club I go to. I have too much pull there. I have gotten dancers fired in the past.

lestat1
03-03-2003, 08:33 PM
I always pay up front. It's sort of the standard at every club around here, so it doesn't usually bother me. A couple times there have been dancers I've gotten 10+ dances from in the past and I've paid upfront for two dances, then when I decide at the end of those two I want a third, they make me go fish out my wallet and pay upfront for the third dance...after already paying and tipping upfront for the first two. It really ruins the mood to stop and take a break like that.

I dress nicely so I know I don't look like I'm broke, and I tip at least average. They must get ripped off a lot or something...

-lestatdl1

Devastating Divyne
03-03-2003, 09:14 PM
To try to keep the problems to a minimum what i do is first make sure i explain the price of the dance beforehand. Then, if it is someone I have never seen I will ask them to take the money for one dance out of their wallet and put it in their shirt pocket b/c most guys wear shirts with pockets. If they don't have a pocket I just tell them to hold on to it. It makes me feel more at ease, and by letting them hold on to it makes them less easy that I will take the money and run.

Bridgette
03-03-2003, 10:55 PM
At my club everyone always has to pay up front, at least for the initial dance(s). After that if the guy wants to keep going we just dance and the bouncer outside the room collects for the extra dances when we're done. The bouncers keep a count so there's no dispute. (I know what some of you are thinking - how can I enjoy a dance with the blasted bouncer right outside the room counting songs? Trust me, he's not that intrusive, and the dance is always enjoyable ;) ) The system we have works well, few get put off by it, and the ones who do usually have an attitude problem anyway, but I always manage to smooth it over ;D

doc-catfish
03-03-2003, 11:32 PM
Sometimes, while having a wonderful lap dance session, I've had to pull my "big money" wad out (I NEVER keep the twenties in my wallet for fear of being pickpocketed). To see just how many dances I can still afford, sometimes in the midst of having a good time, one can fail to see how just quickly their finances are depleting! Certainly I don't want to screw over anybody.

I've been asked for the money up front a couple times, and a couple of other times where I paid my "tab" every couple of songs, but in every instance the girls delivered. As long as I get what I paid for, I'm not going to throw a fit about it.

money
03-03-2003, 11:47 PM
Dont me wrong, if it is a club where you have to buy the tickets for dances, obviously you have to pay up front. You cant change the rules of the club. The reason I act the way I do in that one club, is basically I am a permanent fixture there, being friends with everyone from the owners to the djs to some of the bartenders, I would never do anything to jeopardize my reputation in the club, and stiff a dancer. I never get a dance from a dancer that I have never seen before. I will always wait until she has seen me a few times. Then after she sees that I am there all the time, and I get a dance, normally they will trust me. If I go back with her, and she doesnt trust me, I just move on and she loses some income. This is just me giving my opinion and what I do. Remember, Heather, in NJ we really do not have those so called "show" clubs. There are some corporate chains like Lace/Stilettos and Delilahs, but for the most part, NJ bars are local mom and pop type places so the money can be limited. The dancers have never laughed in fact they normally apologize and try and keep you for the dance!

Alanna
03-03-2003, 11:54 PM
if you're a permanent fixture, shouldn't you be getting a paycheck? ;)

money
03-04-2003, 02:44 AM
Ya know, sometimes I do think that! lol

sol_de_pr2
03-04-2003, 02:55 AM
I believe that a club should have a rule against allowing dancers to charge extra (has nothing to do with "extras" as we know it) once a client pays for a dance. If the client believes his dancer deserves a tip and the club has no policy against it then let him tip.

Susan Wayward
03-04-2003, 03:52 AM
I never ask for the money upfront but that's the way it usually is at all of the clubs here, so I am sure some guys would be offended by a girl that did, like being asked by your waiter to pay before he brings you dinner as I think someone suggested on a thread like this on SW. Haven't had but a couple of problems. If I am running on to stage I will tell him he can tip me the dance while I am up there or wait until I am off. Most guys will pay me right then if there is time or will come give me the money on stage. As far as running a tab during multiple dances, I might ask for the money when I leave the table, but if it's a regular I don't worry about it.
As a customer, I would just accept that it is different everywhere you go, just like the dances themselves, and go with the flow. If you find a dancer you click with, things are always negotiable from there.

GoldCoastGirl
03-04-2003, 11:13 AM
The only way to pay at the clubs locally (Gold Coast) is upfront. There is no option to "pay later". I personally like this way better as it allow the dancer not have to worry about non-payment and just dance.

The way it works at my club is that once your initial dance is over, a hostess will come visit you and you can stay where you are by handing over the money to continue to her. It is an inter-ruption however it allows the dancer to know that she is going to get paid and the customer to know that he is going to get a good dance.

Up-front is the ONLY way to go for me personally. Then again, there is no other option.

GoldCoastGirl
03-04-2003, 11:25 AM
....like being asked by your waiter to pay before he brings you dinner .


Isn't that how most fast food chains work and some restaurants? Plenty of people are willing to pay up-front for their meal at Maccas or KFC so why should it be any different in re: a private dance?

I just feel that asking for it up-front makes it easier for dancer and customer. The dancer knows she is getting paid for the dance so can concentrate on giving a good dancer and the customer is guaranteed a dance because he has paid for it.

I guess it shows that the culture is different here in Oz.

witt
03-04-2003, 12:40 PM
Call me cheap or call me lazy, but I tip according to performance and I do not like to go into my pocket more than once. On an average $20 lap dance I will tip $10, but if I have to pay $20 upfront unless she really impresses me she will lose out on the tip. It's her choice.

Bridgette
03-04-2003, 01:21 PM
Call me cheap or call me lazy, but I tip according to performance and I do not like to go into my pocket more than once. On an average $20 lap dance I will tip $10, but if I have to pay $20 upfront unless she really impresses me she will lose out on the tip. It's her choice.

Well, since as some of us have pointed out, in some clubs and in some areas, it is club POLICY that customers pay up front, so it is not always 'her' choice. So unless you never travel and the clubs in your area never change policy, at some point you may have to change your mind slightly.

Richard_Head
03-04-2003, 01:27 PM
I have never paid up front, then again no club I have been to has had that policy. It seems like I would be in a little bit more control of the situation though if I pay afterwards. If you pay up front how does it work, do you have to stop after every dance to fork over more, if you pay upfront for 5 dances and are disappointed with the dances after 2 do you get change back? I must be missing something, someone please explain.

doc-catfish
03-04-2003, 01:39 PM
Isn't that how most fast food chains work and some restaurants? Plenty of people are willing to pay up-front for their meal at Maccas or KFC so why should it be any different in re: a private dance?

I just feel that asking for it up-front makes it easier for dancer and customer. The dancer knows she is getting paid for the dance so can concentrate on giving a good dancer and the customer is guaranteed a dance because he has paid for it.

I guess it shows that the culture is different here in Oz.
Its not so much that we customers mind having to hand over the money first Vee, but its the fact that when one steps into a strip club, they know that they're in an environment where honesty isn't always practiced, and taking into consideration that lap dances are illegal or quasi-illegal in many U.S. jurisdictions.

We don't want to hand over our money and have the dancer find an excuse to leave without performing, or "cry wolf" to the bouncer about being touched (when we weren't touching) 20 seconds into the dance, or asking for more money once she's finished. Similarly, I'm sure its just as irritating for you ladies to perform dances and then not get your hard earned money or get short payed for services rendered.

If you live in a place where dances are illegal and you get screwed (whether you're a dancer or customer), are you going to go to the cops to complain, or file a complaint with the Attorney General? Of course not.

As colletecall stated, she feels comfortable with her regulars. I feel just as comfortable with my ATF and other dancers I've done dances with before. As long as I'm dealing with an honest contractor, I don't sweat paying up front. But I can definitely understand why so many people, dancers and customers alike, are on their guard at the club. A few shady and unscrupulous people taint a fun time for the rest of us.

Bridgette
03-04-2003, 02:14 PM
I have never paid up front, then again no club I have been to has had that policy. It seems like I would be in a little bit more control of the situation though if I pay afterwards. If you pay up front how does it work, do you have to stop after every dance to fork over more, if you pay upfront for 5 dances and are disappointed with the dances after 2 do you get change back? I must be missing something, someone please explain.

At my club, you pay up front to the upstairs bouncer (all ld's and vip's are done on the second floor) for the initial dance(s). Most regulars will always pay for 2 or 3 up front. Most other customers will pay for 1 up front, but about 40% of the non-regular guys I dance for also pay for a couple songs up front. Almost no one pays for 5 up front. Since you pay to the club, if you don't like the dance, you of course don't get any money back. Especially since the #1 reason for any guy to not like the dance is that he's not allowed to grope the girls - that is no reason for a refund. I have to say, I've NEVER had a guy act in the least bit disappointed in my dances. Anyway, if you want more dances after the initial one(s) you paid for, we just continue dancing and you pay the bouncer after. I have a few guys actually start to pay for the next song(s) and I always tell them to just relax, they can pay at the end. And I almost always have guys get more than what they initially paid for, unless they just don't have the money for more ;)

aggieed
03-04-2003, 02:21 PM
I've never been in an environment where I had to pay first. I'm a regular in my club and have never ripped anybody off so most dancers know I'm "safe." In my travels I've never really had to pay upfront either, and I'm sure that if I absolutely HAVE to pay upfront I will...but I would only pay for one or two dances. Usually if I don't like what's going on by then, I move on. If I like what's going on, then, by all means, please continue! ;)

witt
03-04-2003, 02:33 PM
Well, since as some of us have pointed out, in some clubs and in some areas, it is club POLICY that customers pay up front, so it is not always 'her' choice. So unless you never travel and the clubs in your area never change policy, at some point you may have to change your mind slightly.


Okay will amend what I wrote, I have been to 1 or 2 clubs that did require payment to the club upfront. If I am in one of those club will not hold that against the dancer. In that case I know it is not her choice.

Richard_Head
03-04-2003, 02:47 PM
Especially since the #1 reason for any guy to not like the dance is that he's not allowed to grope the girls - that is no reason for a refund.I don't necessarily agree with that although I'm sure it is high on the list. It just seems to me like some incentive is lost when the dancer already has her money and this can lead to some less than inspiring dances. For example, say I pay for 3 dances upfront, I'm betting the first 2 in many cases will be somewhat lackluster, with the dancer picking it up a notch on the third dance in attempt to get more dances. So I will have paid for 1 good dance and 2 mediocre dances. I'm sure not all dancers approach it that way but I would bet that many do.

Bridgette
03-04-2003, 03:39 PM
Yeah, probably some do, but I say they're the ones who don't make as much and don't have many repeat customers. As I said, most non-regulars I dance for only pay for 1-2 songs up front, and most regulars (who know I will give a good dance usually pay for 2-3 up front). Most of us know that the way to make money is to please the customers, so I reckon most would try to do so. I personally make every effort to do so within the limits ;)

As for turning up the heat at the end of a prepaid 3-song set, I can't remember anyone who hadn't had dances from me before paying for more than 2 up front, but most wind up getting additional dances anyway. I never start off at full throttle on the first song - I think a good dance is progressive. Start a little slow and build. Dance a little with my clothes on, peel them slowly, get closer and closer, lots of eye contact and attention to all the body parts. Stroke his hair and face, brush my fingers on his lips, pass my nails down his arms and hands, down his chest and thighs, breath in his ear -- ok I might be getting off-topic here. ;D Suffice to say that by the end of the first song I'm pretty hot or at least really warm. I continue the heat into the second and subsequent dances, with slight cooling off and reheating again every once in a while (same thing for too long is boring also), with some really hot moments mixed in and even the occasional comic relief. :P It's a delicate balance to keep the interest without going overboard. I hardly think that anyone would accuse me of giving lackluster dances whether I've been paid up front or not ;)

Anyway, if you're in a place that requires payment up front, you just pay for 1-2 initially and see how it goes. At worst, you got to see a beautiful naked girl up close in front of you. Then if you like her dances, get more. If you don't politely leave the ld area and look for another girl if you want more dances. That's the beauty of this whole thing - you can always find another girl. Also, in many clubs it's a good idea to ask your waitress and sometimes other staffmembers if you don't want to waste time searching for the right girl. They are often very good at bringing you someone who will show you a good time. ;)

yoda57us
03-06-2003, 10:38 AM
I stick to favs and they know I am going to pay, however, I know some of them do ask for the money up front with guys they don't know. I wouldn't have a problem with being asked up front if I was trying a new dancer. I saw a girl get ripped off for $500 one night a few years ago. The guy did 5 $100 dollar champagne rooms and took off-told her had more money in his car and would be right back. The next week I overheard her telling a customer she needed the money up front. Most of the clubs I've been in, management will do nothing when this happens.

Joe12601
03-09-2003, 09:19 AM
My club has ashtray type containers in the vip rooms..I'll rsaully take the tip and fold it under my keys..I knw its there she knows its there..at the end it's "thats for you.." thank you, polite easy and neat.

OPEN
03-09-2003, 03:29 PM
most places in my area leave it up to the girl to collect after, but there are a couple that have u pay the bouncer so obvisously u pay first in those places. As far as the tipping goes I dont have any diff prob with that in those places since I just tip the girl after the dances ,,,I dont have a problem going in pocket more than once LOL