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azdd
10-11-2005, 01:13 PM
I've pretty much lived at HL since I moved here, and have seen very, very few people use it. Most of the gals use it as a staging area (for putting their clothes back on) or making cell phone calls (it's quieter in there). I've honestly never been asked once by any dancer to try it out, and, from the regulars I've cultivated, most are fairly scornful of its usefulness.
CP

Wow CP, I didn't realize you had moved to Phoenix. That explains the recent spike in LD mileage that I've been experiencing around town. Thanks for helping us desert rats out! ;D

AZFrankie
10-18-2005, 09:14 PM
Hey, I love doing dances in the VIP room. Can't believe more of the girls don't push it... their loss, my gain, I guess. I'm probably in there every other shift or so.

As far as the room itself, well, I guess it reminds me of Iowa, where there are NO lap dances done on the floor, all of them in an area similar to the HL's VIP, and all the dances are 25-30. Dancing out on the floor is fairly uncomfortable for me because I'm not used to it at all. So my dances, while phenomenal on the floor, tend to be even better in the VIP.

love (and hi again!!)
frankie/iacali

Blade
11-07-2005, 04:01 PM
CP...you dirty dog you! Ya moved out here to the desert? I may have to pop into HL dayshift and check it out, my company is doin some work down the street and it's been tempting....specially now that I know Frankie/I(K)Cali is there....

azdd
11-08-2005, 05:53 AM
CP...you dirty dog you! Ya moved out here to the desert? I may have to pop into HL dayshift and check it out, my company is doin some work down the street and it's been tempting....specially now that I know Frankie/I(K)Cali is there....

BTW, for those interested in the HL's VIP area, I learned recently that they are no longer charging the $20 entry fee, but there is an expectation of a three dance minimum at $25 per. Considering how great the dances are on the main floor, and the relative lack of privacy in their VIP area, I still haven't taken the plunge, but I'm sure I'll check it out someday. IMHO the VIP rooms in Tucson clubs are much better for their intended purpose.....;)

Chili Palmer
11-08-2005, 07:56 PM
As you might have expected, I have tried out the VIP room at HL. It's true--they no longer have an entry fee, but the dances are $25/song, with the dancer kicking in $5 to the house per song. I was told by one dancer about the 3 song minimum, but two others said nothing and there is no sign posted, so as far as I am concerned, the minimum is what I say it is, so the dancer needs to make it worth my while to keep me back there.

Is there an uptick in mileage? In a nutshell, yes. Bridgette practically stripped me down to my skivvies, when a bouncer finally told me to put my shirt back on. The other dancers I've taken back there also were more accommodating, though I have been taken aback by the level of cock-blocking going on. No honor among PLs, apparently. Had one guy named Bob actually sit down right next to me while B was molesting me and another was supremely jealous when Persephone and I started making out, and seemed to bring another dancer back there just to watch us go at it. Fuckers.

CP

Casual Observer
11-08-2005, 08:25 PM
Had one guy named Bob actually sit down right next to me while B was molesting me and another was supremely jealous when Persephone and I started making out, and seemed to bring another dancer back there just to watch us go at it. Fuckers.

That's pathetic. So much for the VIP-ness of VIP.

azdd
11-11-2005, 12:05 AM
Well, I finally had the combination of time and cash to take the plunge and try out the HL's VIP room during a recent dayshift. I spent some nice time enjoying some nice additional T&A contact from a few of my regular faves. The first gal I took back (fave #1) had also never been in, so we agreed to be gentle on each other and break things in right. She was very nice, and allowed some reasonable roaming, which was very nice after having had regular floor dances from her for probably over a year. She didn't say anything about a 3 song minimum, so I only had two songs, and then went to recruit fave #2. She spied me and came over ready to play. This gal gives really hot dances on the floor, so I thought VIP would be pretty cool. The problem was that for this set, we sat in the chair to the right, instead of the one back to the left where I was with fave #1 (it was occupied now). The chair on the right is under a TV flat panel that makes the area brighter lit than the main floor! Although I would have preferred a darker setting, I enjoyed two more dances with fave #2, although I gotta say they really weren't much hotter than what she does on the main floor.

Finally, I settled in for the main event I had come in for, which was some VIP time with fave#ATF. This time, we got the better seat to the left, and chatted for a couple of songs until we had the space to ourselves. The door guy with the clipboard stuck his head in once in awhile, but pretty much left us alone. I got a handful of dances from her, and just had a great time. I've known her a long time, so she was also really comfortable. I think it sucks that the girls have to pay a house fee of $5 per dance, so I tipped her enough to cover the house fees on top of my dances. I will probably only occasionally use the VIP space at the HL when I'm in the mood, and am willing to buy fewer dances at a greater per unit cost. But, overall I did have a very nice visit, mostly due to the three wonderful faves I spent my time with. }:D

AZFrankie
11-11-2005, 02:18 PM
Tip on the HL VIP: I preferred the chair to the left, as well, until I went to VIP one night and BOTH t.v.'s were on.

All you need to do is request your girls or a bouncer to turn it off. I just step up on the chair and turn it off myself the moment my gent sits down. Voila, darkness!!

I now prefer the right corner. The left corner has glass walls behind it and on the club-side, while the right corner only has the club-side for bouncer and manager spying. Have fun!

Chili Palmer
11-12-2005, 11:31 AM
I concur. The chair off to the right is clearly superior, particularly during the dayshift when there is only one bouncer and he's busy at the door and/or seating people. Nighttime is a little trickier, because some of those a-holes just seem to want to camp out in front of you and get a show for free.

Blade: been out here about 7 weeks now, living at a hotel (paid for by my boss). House closes escrow next week, so I'll finally stop living out of my suitcase. Hope you and Dea are doing well.

CP

Richard_Head
11-15-2005, 08:20 PM
It appears that the city of Phoenix is taking full advantage of the recent eminent domain ruling to "clean" up the city.

The Jungle apparently was closed recently (http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2005/11/32637.php (http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2005/11/32637.php)) and apparently Teaser's will be following suit soon (http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/31584.php (http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/31584.php)).

Is it too soon to get worried?

Blade
11-16-2005, 11:16 PM
I concur. The chair off to the right is clearly superior, particularly during the dayshift when there is only one bouncer and he's busy at the door and/or seating people. Nighttime is a little trickier, because some of those a-holes just seem to want to camp out in front of you and get a show for free.

Blade: been out here about 7 weeks now, living at a hotel (paid for by my boss). House closes escrow next week, so I'll finally stop living out of my suitcase. Hope you and Dea are doing well.

CPYeah we're doin ok. So..ya think we might meet one day? LOL

Blade
11-16-2005, 11:19 PM
It appears that the city of Phoenix is taking full advantage of the recent eminent domain ruling to "clean" up the city.

The Jungle apparently was closed recently ) and apparently Teaser's will be following suit soon (h).

Is it too soon to get worried?If I'm not mistaken CREME has recently shut its doors also, at least that's the rumour.
It's all a crock of shit to me, damn it we need our sc's to stay open!

Richard_Head
11-16-2005, 11:30 PM
So..ya think we might meet one day? LOLPerhaps an AZ Junkie get together is in order :O.

AZFrankie
11-17-2005, 08:02 AM
only if cali/frankie is included in the mix. ;p

Blade
11-18-2005, 06:50 PM
AZ junkiefest?..no that would invite the tweakers and the crackheads...
Whatever we call it it sounds like an expensive yet worthy plan!

Chili Palmer
11-19-2005, 09:21 PM
Time for an actual club review (!)

Sonny's is a topless (actually, the only topless) bar in Chandler, which is a 'burb SE of Phoenix. It's located on Arizona Ave., about a half mile south of the new 202 Freeway. By default it's become my new home club, because it's about 4 miles from my new home.

It's located a small, square nondescript building in the middle of nothing. For such a small club, it has a huge amount of parking, unlike the Hi-Liter, which is slightly larger but has maybe 1/10th the parking spots. This is a plus. A big minus, however, is the $9 cover charge, which is far and away the highest cover in all the PHX clubs I've been inside. Once inside, I'm struck by the fact that this is the second club in Phoenix that has curiously chosen diamond plating along the walls as their main interior design motif (the falsely named "Bombshells" on Thomas Road being the other). The bar takes up the east wall and the rectangular stage runs parallel to it. Three layers of seating around the club: chairs like you'd see at a 500 seat seminar placed around the stage, then small tables with the more standard high arms and cushions, and then a row of chairs and small tables along the mirrored wall.

Drinks are $3.50, and are served in a real 16 oz glass by low pressure waitresses who seem grateful for the $1.50 tip. Good. The sound system was blaring the first time I came in, so it's better to find a seat well away from the speakers. The DJ isn't painfully bad, but he hasn't yet figured out how to put an intelligible sentence together and I am only able to decipher maybe one dancer name in five he mumbles over the microphone.

Sonny's has three levels of lap dances: topless at your table for $10, more secluded on one of 5-6 VIP couches in the back for $20 each, and then "champagne room" dances, which are 3 for $100. Are they worth it? Read on and find out, muggles.

When I first entered the club, it took about 20 minutes before a dancer finally approached me. She actually didn't "wanna dance?" me, but sat down and chatted before popping the question, and didn't get an attitude when I turned her down. Same for the next two. When a fourth, a C-cup blonde asked, I was ready. For a first dance, it wasn't bad. Some decent mileage (for Phoenix), so we did four total, with her asking after every song if I wanted another, as if she was surprised by a PL wanting to buy dances in a multipack.

The VIP "rooms" are arranged in an "L" along the south wall. The best place is the corner of the "L", which offer the most privacy and seclusion. It's worth waiting for. I took a busty Latina back there and was feeding to my heart's content, more than I ever have out here. Some substantial 2-way contact was definitely on the menu for many (but not all) of the dancers here. Of course, I had to try out the champagne room with one dancer who really struck my fancy. The CR has thick, black leather couches and plenty of privacy when you're the only couple in there. Interestingly, you are required to pay the bouncer the money, not the dancer, before you enter the room, and if you want to do a second or third set, then you have to stop and pay the bouncer again. Kinda ruins the rhythm but them's the rules. The CR room was as close to some of my clubs in LA as I have ever experienced in 16 years. Yup. Ol' CP may actually get lucky after wandering nearly dry in the desert lo these many weeks. Now, I just have to see how up these gals are for OTC activities to truly make it my new home away from home.

As for the overall dancer quality, it's definitely decent. I've only seen one dancer who absolutely doesn't belong in a SC; and, while there are many girls who don't fit the "CP archetype", I've already started a rotation of four dancers and have seen at least four others who could move into the rotation as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

CP

azdd
11-26-2005, 06:25 AM
Thanks CP for the Sonny's review. Haven't tried this place out yet, but now that the 202 takes you almost to the doorstep, it's definitely "almost" on my way back to Tucson after a day of adventures in the center of the universe. I know several dancers at the HL that speak highly of Sonny's but they live in Chandler very close to the club, and would rather not work so close to home. The 3/$100 VIP deal sounds like a winner; I'm sure I'll be checking that out in the not too distant future.

Did anyone else go to the UA/ASU game yesterday? My Wildcats choked and gave up a 15 point lead to lose on a last second field goal. All I could say to the hordes of gloating scum devil fans was "Enjoy your basketball season...!" :neener:

Richard_Head
12-01-2005, 07:55 PM
I found this interesting, it also explains why I usually stick to afternoons/early evenings at this place.

Autopsy awaited on man taken down by bouncers

PHOENIX - Authorities are awaiting the autopsy of a 21-year-old man who died after an incident outside a strip club.

Police said Jorge Munoz stopped breathing after he was taken to the ground and handcuffed by bouncers at the Hi-Liter Cocktail Lounge about 2 a.m. Saturday. Munoz was part of a group ejected from the club, police said. Club management called 911 when staff members noticed that Munoz wasn't breathing. He was pronounced dead at Arizona Heart Hospital.

A man who identified himself Monday as the manager of the club declined to comment.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/1129phxbriefs1129.html

Bridgette
12-03-2005, 03:59 PM
I was looking for a newspiece on this. So this is what really happened, as reported to me by 2 girls - same exact story from both girls, told separately. I worked that night but left before the incident.

Friday night after Thanksgiving. A guy was trying to finger a girl in the club (incidentally, one of the girls who did the reality show pilot with me) - girl punched the guy, he punched her back, twice. Bloodied her lip. Guy got kicked out. In the parking lot (I assume there was more scuffling considering the dude punched a GIRL inside), culprit's friend tried to 'help him out', and wound up having a heart attack. It IS policy for bouncers at HL to cuff guys who get too rowdy, understandably so, so I'm sure the guy did get cuffed. But there was definitely a REASON the guys were getting taken down in the first place.

HL bouncers are not excessively physical and always try to handle things verbally first. While there may be more 'incidents' going on at HL at night, it's no more often than at any other club I've worked (and that's alot). More 'action' at night is simply a result of higher attendance at that time - nothing else (young punks go into the club in the afternoon as well, I've danced for plenty during daylight hours). In a year and a half, there've been a total of 3 incidents in the place. Not exactly common, and while you may not hear about shit happening at other clubs, I can guarantee you it does.

EVERY club I've ever worked has some shit happening now and then. This recent incident is certainly not an indication that the HL should be avoided. Booze, boobs and doods can be a helluva combo ;)

Bridgette
12-03-2005, 04:19 PM
Ugh. I knew this would be totally blown out of proportion by shady reporting, misinterpretation and rumor mill ::)



Stoopid custies think bouncers killed the guy. ::) It's unfortunate the guy died but it wasn't the bouncers' fault - if anyone is to blame it's the punk custies themselves. Live hard, die hard.

azdd
12-04-2005, 07:47 AM
HL bouncers are not excessively physical and always try to handle things verbally first. While there may be more 'incidents' going on at HL at night, it's no more often than at any other club I've worked (and that's alot). More 'action' at night is simply a result of higher attendance at that time - nothing else (young punks go into the club in the afternoon as well, I've danced for plenty during daylight hours).

EVERY club I've ever worked has some shit happening now and then. This recent incident is certainly not an indication that the HL should be avoided. Booze, boobs and doods can be a helluva combo ;)

Thanks for additional details Ms. B. I can't disagree that there can be jerks in a club at anytime, but my impression of the HL over the last five years or so as been that the club's personality is very different between day and night. The crowd is certainly bigger at night, but the demographics are dramatically different IMHO. Daytime is just more laid back, with more regulars, and more typically guys coming in solo, or in small groups. Night shift brings out larger groups of guys, which means they drink more, and feel more empowered by the group mentality to act like jerks. There is also a higher gangsta factor at night, and the music style from the DJs changes to reflect it. I agree that assholes can come in anytime, but the nightshift environment just seems to inflame them enough to show their true colors! :)

Richard_Head
12-04-2005, 09:38 AM
Thanks for the info Bridgette. I've never had a problem with the bouncers at the Hi-Liter and from what you say they weren't out of line in this case so their behavior is really not a problem with me (and never has been). I'm with azdd though, I much prefer it earlier in the day/night (before they pull out the metal detection wand), to me it just seems like a different club at that time of day. In fact, I know of several daytime dancers there who dance elsewhere at night because they feel it gets (in their words) "too ghetto" at night. To each his own I guess.

And Bridgette what is this about a reality show pilot? Did that come about from the guy who posted on this site awhile back?

kgf612
12-06-2005, 12:11 PM
Can anyone tell me what it would be like to work at Babes & Bourbon St. Such as what is the contact level, what is & isn't allowed to be touched? Are girls grinding in Bourbon or are they clean? Thx!! :)

Richard_Head
12-06-2005, 07:51 PM
Can anyone tell me what it would be like to work at Babes & Bourbon St. Such as what is the contact level, what is & isn't allowed to be touched? Are girls grinding in Bourbon or are they clean? Thx!! :)

I'm not a dancer so I can't really tell you what it would be like (have you posted this on the pink side?) but here's my perspective as a customer.

Babe's is without a doubt the tamest club in town, especially right now with the city making such a big stink about Jenna Jameson and her porn friends buying the club, strictly one way contact there, very little to no grinding, very little touching (if any) by the customers, the bouncers there are very observant and very quick to act when anyone gets out of line. They've got a good location in Scottsdale so they get a lot of wealthy locals and tourists stopping in. The club itself is pretty small and can be hard to navigate around in (let alone give dances) when it gets crowded. Dances are $10 each, there is no VIP room. The girls for the most part are some of the best looking in town.

Bourbon St is one of my favorite clubs, it's much bigger than Babe's and seems much more laid back. There is grinding going on there (do you consider that to be dirty???), if you won't grind here you probably won't make much money because ALL the girls there do it. As for customer contact, it varies, some girls are more lenient than others, it's still pretty tame though for the most part (this is AZ afterall), maybe some touching of the legs, back, arms, but nothing really out of line. Dances are $10 each on the main floor, $20 and up in the VIP room (where FYI, the contact level does increase). For the most part the girls here are also very good looking, not many newbies here, most seem to have been dancing for awhile (either here or elsewhere).

Hope that helps. Are you dancing in town now?

kgf612
12-07-2005, 11:40 AM
Thank u SO much for the reply...the pink side doesn't do too well. Only a few reply. But not enough info or they info I'm looking for. How would you compare Bourbon to Christies? Which is more contact do you think? I'm looking something tame for sure... Oh, one more ques. is Skin tame too or no?? Thx again!!!!!

Richard_Head
12-07-2005, 07:13 PM
How would you compare Bourbon to Christies? Which is more contact do you think? I'm looking something tame for sure... Oh, one more ques. is Skin tame too or no?? Thx again!!!!!

There's really not a whole lot of difference in the contact levels of Bourbon and Christies, I'd call it about equal.

As for Skin, I'd say it's somewhere between Babe's and Bourbon/Christies. The Jenna (Jameson that is) factor is effecting them too, the city of Scottsdale would like nothing better than to run them out of business (along with Babe's) so everyone there has been on their best behavior of late which means somewhat tamer dances.

Babe's would probably be you best option if you don't like contact (although beware they can be picky about who they hire).

FBR
12-07-2005, 07:46 PM
RH, you are a friggin weath of information :) You should charge for this shit ;)

FBR

kgf612
12-07-2005, 08:38 PM
Hahaha. That is a good idea he should consider. You could do well with it..

Thx again for the advice. It is VERY greatly appreciated.

CalifSCVisitor65
12-07-2005, 09:35 PM
Hahaha. That is a good idea he should consider. You could do well with it..

Thx again for the advice. It is VERY greatly appreciated.

I think a few dances to show your appreciation for RH's info would be appropriate. }:D

Richard_Head
12-07-2005, 10:01 PM
I think a few dances to show your appreciation for RH's info would be appropriate. }:DI'd settle for a 2 for 1 deal.

azdd
12-07-2005, 11:21 PM
RH, you are a friggin weath of information :) You should charge for this shit ;)

FBR

RH is my hero... someday I hope to know half of the Az club intel he's already forgotten. 8)

kgf612
12-08-2005, 10:54 AM
A bit confused though..bc I've had a man say how the girl will sit on the knee & the managers at the club say they are supposed to sit on the knee too.

Yet another girls said it's the dirtiest club...but I find that too not be true??

Richard_Head
12-08-2005, 06:52 PM
A bit confused though..bc I've had a man say how the girl will sit on the knee & the managers at the club say they are supposed to sit on the knee too.

Yet another girls said it's the dirtiest club...but I find that too not be true??What club are you talking about?

kgf612
12-09-2005, 01:44 AM
Bourbon St. is the club. Sorry.

Oh, just wonderin too...what is the clientele like at each club? Which club is busier? Thx. :)

Richard_Head
12-09-2005, 07:44 AM
Bourbon St. is the club. Sorry.

Oh, just wonderin too...what is the clientele like at each club? Which club is busier? Thx. :)

I don't really consider any of the clubs you mentioned to be 'dirty' clubs, of course you could probably go into any club anywhere and find girls pushing the limits.

All four of the clubs you mentioned are good clubs that get good consistant business. I really don't know which is the busiest? Skin and Babe's are much smaller so may look busier but I doubt that's the case. As for clientele, Skin seems to get the youngest crowd, Christies the oldest, with Babe's and Bourbon falling somewhere in between. None really seem to attract a bad element IMO.

Richard_Head
12-09-2005, 06:54 PM
Here's some interesting news out of Scottsdale, it looks like the city is finally planning on revealling their new proposed SC ordinances. What a joke they are too. Keep in mind that they've been saying all along that they recognize the rights of SC's to exist and that their intentions are not to close the clubs.

Here are some of the highlights:
• Requires all seminude entertainers to be on a stage that is at least 18 inches high and at least six feet away from the patrons. The club owner would be required to put up a fence or barrier at least 3 feet tall and maintain a 6-foot separation zone between performers and patrons.
• Outlaw nude performances — defined as displaying nipples, genitals or the pubic area — at strip clubs "regardless of whether appearing nude is expressive in nature."
• Make it illegal for patrons to drink, or the clubs to sell, alcohol.

The Scottsdale Chambers of Commerce is even against this.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=54889

http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/1209sr-sexbiz09Z8.html

http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/1209nesexbiz-

kgf612
12-09-2005, 09:01 PM
Which club has hotter dancers at night? Babes or Skin?

Richard_Head
12-10-2005, 09:59 AM
Which club has hotter dancers at night? Babes or Skin?About 5 years ago I would have said that no club anywhere matched up with the Babe's girls (appearancewise), everyone last one of them was smoking hot, they've slipped a bit since then but still have lots of very attractive girls. I really don't see much difference now in the looks department between the girls at the two clubs. Hopefully, the city doesn't shut them both down.

kgf612
12-10-2005, 10:11 AM
If they could...when would the city eventually shut them down? Will the money go down at Babes when they go to court? And which do u think is busier...Skin or Babes? By the way...how can Skin be less tamer than Babes..wouldn't they get in trouble?

Richard_Head
12-10-2005, 11:04 AM
If they could...when would the city eventually shut them down? Will the money go down at Babes when they go to court? Technically they wouldn't actually be shutting them down, just enforcing highly restrictive ordinances that would without a doubt lead to their closures due to a lack of business. Nobody in their right mind would visit these clubs if they followed the ordinances, everyone would just move over to the Phoenix clubs thus putting the Scottsdale clubs out of business. I would assume they would give the clubs some time to get into compliance with the ordinances, I'm not sure what kind of timeframe they're looking at regarding that though. I also don't know if they could continue to operate as they now are while they fight it out in court. A lot of questions will probably be answered next week.


And which do u think is busier...Skin or Babes?Skin is probably the busier of the two clubs right now but they still both do decent business.


By the way...how can Skin be less tamer than Babes..wouldn't they get in trouble?Before Jenna bought into Babe's the city didn't really seem to take much interest in either, so neither really got into any trouble.

kgf612
12-10-2005, 02:16 PM
That's so messed up. All the clean clubs might be gone...that's not fair for clean dancers who now have to compete against more contact dances in phoenix... :(

Richard_Head
12-13-2005, 07:37 AM
Let the lawsuits begin. The city council despite their pleas that their intent was not to run the clubs out of business (yeah right::)) unanimously passed most of the new restrictions. In their supposed attempt at compromise to the clubs they decided not to ban alchol, and did agree that a six foot barrier was overly restricted agreeing instead to the very less restrictive::) four foot barrier.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...sexbiz1213.html (http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/1213sexbiz1213.html)

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=55068 (http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=55068)

Jenny
12-13-2005, 08:40 AM
I'm actually kind of interested in how they would contest this. It has been pretty unanimously and firmly decided that exotic dancing is not protected by freedom of speech (Unlike here, I might add. Go Louise Arbour! Go McLachlin! This is what you get when you keep women from equal representation on the bench. Unfair laws regarding sex trade). And although I would challenge anyone to show or indicate that strip clubs are a significant factor in spreading STD's (which is what I assume they mean by disease - I mean I'm assuming that the ordinances are not to protect the customers from colds or SARS. Really - if your immune system is in a state where SARS is going to kill you, you need to go home. The strip club is not where you should be), according to you guys there is a real problem with prostitution. It is obvious (and I said the same thing about Seattle) that the business is not capable or inclined to regulate itself. Since the municipalities there are allowed (again unlike here. Go Canadian Supreme Court!) to legislate to prevent prostitution and there is a clear, obvious and substantial connection between strip clubs and prostitution (again according to you guys. You guys are to one's who insist on this. It's the reviled pinkies who are all "We should just PREVENT prostitution in the clubs, then we wouldn't have these problems") it seems like a perfectly reasonable law to me.

kgf612
12-13-2005, 11:49 AM
SO....what will happen to Babes now?

mr_punk
12-13-2005, 03:01 PM
I'm actually kind of interested in how they would contest this. It has been pretty unanimously and firmly decided that exotic dancing is not protected by freedom of speech (Unlike here, I might add. Go Louise Arbour! Go McLachlin! This is what you get when you keep women from equal representation on the bench. Unfair laws regarding sex trade).that's not quite technically true. i know it doesn't appear to be the case. however, the SC does grant nude dancing some protection under the first amendment. however, they made it clear that it, "falls only within the outer ambit of the First Amendment’s protection.". IOW, it's given protection (albeit limited), but not the same sort of latitude or protection compared to other first amendment issues. furthermore, as you noted, it's also subject to regulation by local municipalities.

BTW, IIRC, i believe Justice O’Connor wrote that statement for the plurality in erie vs paps. so, perhaps having women on the court, isn't necessarily all that it's cracked up to be. in any case, if the club has deep pockets. the legal strategy is simple. a good team of lawyers should be able to tie up the opposition in court for years before any kind of resolution. in the meantime, the clubs will still bank and hope that the municipalities will get tired of fighting a potentially very expensive legal battle and just settle.

And although I would challenge anyone to show or indicate that strip clubs are a significant factor in spreading STD's (which is what I assume they mean by disease - I mean I'm assuming that the ordinances are not to protect the customers from colds or SARS. Really - if your immune system is in a state where SARS is going to kill you, you need to go home. The strip club is not where you should be), according to you guys there is a real problem with prostitution.that is the secondary effects theory. however, it just doesn't apply to disease or prostitution. it also applies to property values (the SE argument arose from the SC sex industry zoning cases of the 60 & 70's), crime, drugs, etc. i'm waiting on the day when someone makes the argument that it applies to terrorism as well. seriously, SE advocates will tell you that it's not about the supression of free speech, but about the government interest in the protection of the public's health. frankly, i didn't know they cared. i mean, you can hardly tell by the way the goverment allows large food conglomerates to advertise unhealthy and highly processed foods to children on television.

Richard_Head
12-13-2005, 07:24 PM
Well Jenna Jameson owns 1/4 of one of the clubs in question, the other 3/4 is owned by Vivid bigwigs, believe me they have very deep pockets and sound more than willing to shell it out to fight this.

A good case study to look at where this is headed would be Dream Palace (which just happens to be right down the street from the clubs in question) vs Maricopa County, which was ruled on in October of 2004.

Here's what the court found:
the court concluded that a regulation banning "sex acts, normal or perverted, actual or simulated," would amount to a ban on nude dancing, which it called a constitutionally protected activity."
Writing for the majority, Judge Diarmiud O'Scannlain said, "If Elvis' gyrating hips can fairly be understood to constitute a 'simulated sex act,' one can fully appreciate the potential scope of the restrictions placed on erotic dancers in Maricopa County."
http://www.cnsnews.com/Culture/archive/200410/CUL20041007b.html

The secondary effects doctrine is a bunch of crap too, a good lawyer should have no problem picking those apart. Most of the studies that get mentioned are dated, most are done by government agencies who have a stake in their outcome, and there have been many, many studies that have shown no adverse effect that typically get swept under the rug.
Heres' some good reading: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/speech/adultent/topic.aspx?topic=secondary_effects_topic

It'll be an interesting fight but I don't think the city stands a chance against Jenna and her high priced lawyers.

Richard_Head
12-13-2005, 07:27 PM
SO....what will happen to Babes now?It doesn't sound like anything will happen for a very long time. None of the restrictions are set to go into effect until March at which time the lawsuits will go into effect which I'm sure will drag out for years (costing the city hundreds of thousands of dollars BTW).

doc-catfish
12-13-2005, 07:48 PM
It doesn't sound like anything will happen for a very long time. None of the restrictions are set to go into effect until March at which time the lawsuits will go into effect which I'm sure will drag out for years (costing the city hundreds of thousands of dollars BTW).
If Jenna and her partners are smart, they'll rent space on a prominently placed billboard stating something like this:

SINCE MM/DD/YY YOUR PUBLIC OFFICIALS
HAVE WASTED
$ DOLLAR AMOUNT HERE $
OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS ATTEMPTING TO
CURB YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS


...and update the totals every month. :yes:

kgf612
12-14-2005, 02:10 PM
So how business at babes now?

Richard_Head
12-17-2005, 09:43 AM
So how business at babes now?I drove past both Babe's and Skin last night and both seemed to have a decent amount of cars outside of them (I didn't go in to either though). The new restrictions seem to be taking a beating in the press, even by people you would think would support them, hopefully the referendum comes to fruition. It's good to see more cities taking this approach when their rights begin to become encroached upon. Now it's just a matter of getting the generally apathetic public to the ballot box.