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I also heard a rumor that some clubs are now going "private" forming a membership type deal so they can get around the smoking ban. Not sure how that will pan out either.
The private club plan won't cut it under the new law. The only exemption of this type is for fraternal organizations that are not open to the public. There is an excellent FAQ on the website at: http://www.smokefreearizona.org/
So here's a question. For you gents who smoke, will this ban keep you from staying in clubs longer, having to go outside to smoke each time? Some girls are worried that once you leave the club to have that smoke, you may nto come back in.... thoughts?
I could see this happening, especially if they lose their seat to go outside. From my perspective as a non-smoker, faster customer turnover will just increase my odds of getting that dancer I'm interested in to stop by and see me after the other guy who has kept her at his table for the last hour finally leaves to get a smoke, although the same logic could cause me to lose the dancer I'm waiting on if she needs a nicotine fix.
The other huge benny for me is that I won't have to worry about coming home with residual ciggy odor in my hair and clothes. Now if I could do something about not bringing home perfume, makeup, or glitter, life would be just about perfect!
Bridgette
04-25-2007, 09:54 PM
^Business is slow in AZ - summer SUCKS BALLS and it has actually gotten slower over the last year or two. We DO NOT need anymore girls. Please don't come, at least until January!! It won't be worth a trip anyway. I'm not being greedy or jealous btw; I'm being honest.
But yes you need a license and clothing rules vary by club and time of day.
I can't wait for the smoking ban!!! YAY! I don't think it will hurt business much, if at all. Some guys may come in less or go out for smokes and not come back; others will come in more often and stay longer. From my experience in other smoke-free areas, most spending customers who smoke will take a smoke break and come back in until they're done. The few who leave will be made up for by the non-smokers who stay longer.
I REALLY hope they don't pull that "membership" bullshit ::) I will be utterly pissed off if they do. I heard CCT tried that when they first opened and ended up going smoke-free with NO loss in business - even did better without the smoke.
At HL the smoke in the dressing room just about kills me sometimes; I am soooo looking forward to not having to put with that shit anymore.
Smokeless
04-25-2007, 10:50 PM
In Colorado when they did a similar ban, some clubs tried to get around by making themselves into a private club, only to be turned down by the courts. The legislature was working on a bill to tighten up many of the loopholes in the law this year, but I've lost track of the legislation. Our local club up here in the People's Republic of Boulder has been smokefree since the ban, and was mostly smokefree except for a small lounge for a long time before that.
LatinaRose
04-26-2007, 04:08 AM
I'll be happy when this law goes into effect. I always think about getting lung cancer everytime I walk into the bathroom where the girls smoke. I also think people in AZ tend to be healthier than other areas, so it should not be that big of an issue. I meet plenty of customers who are irritated by all the smoke.
Bridgette
04-30-2007, 02:17 AM
Sooo, who's going out on Tuesday to celebrate the first day of smoke-free stripclubs in AZ? Cuz I'm sure going to work just to celebrate it!! And if some poor slob needs to drown his smoker's sorrows, I'll happily lend my cleavage ;D ;D ;D
beautifulxxdisaster
04-30-2007, 04:08 AM
I think this is going to effect business horribly! I have soo many regulars that come in and just want someone to talk to...they buy hours and just smoke and talk...i bet they are going to be pissed~
Richard_Head
04-30-2007, 06:20 AM
There's going to be a period of adjustment no doubt about it, but I think it will be a positive move in the long run. Personally, I'm guessing it will lead to longer visits for me as I can't tell you how many times I cut my visits short because I was annoyed by all the smoke.
xdamage
04-30-2007, 09:48 AM
FWIW,
Atlantic City Casinos have started enforcing the new smoking rules. They do provide areas for smokers still in lounges, and a few slot areas, but for the most part you can now sit down at a table and play without having smoke in your eyes. Even though gambling and smoking are often thought of as inseparable, I was just there and both Casinos I stopped in looked normally busy. I'm an ex-smoker, so I can understand the appeal, but if I wanted to gamble, I'd still go gambling and cope with the smoking restrictions. Likewise if I wanted to see strippers, I'd still go see strippers and cope with having to step outside to light up. I really don't think you'll see a massive loss of business over the long run.
Bridgette
04-30-2007, 08:06 PM
I think this is going to effect business horribly! I have soo many regulars that come in and just want someone to talk to...they buy hours and just smoke and talk...i bet they are going to be pissed~No honey, the smokers will just take a smoke break and come back. If your regs are used to buying hours already, they'll still do it - they'll just take breaks. Christie's Tempe is already a smoke-free club and they do just fine - how do you think they do it? Same as we will. Don't be so freaked out ;)
Some guys might spend less money in the short term, but OTHERS will spend more. It will even out.
I'm going to work tomorrow for the afternoon AND evening shifts, I'm so freakin excited ;D
I'm going to work tomorrow for the afternoon AND evening shifts, I'm so freakin excited ;D
Damn it, I can't make it to see you Tuesday, but if you would work an afternoon shift a little more often it would sure improve my odds! And, not that your lungs need additional inflation, but enjoy a nice deep breath and have a great smoke free day!
Cheers (and bottoms up }:D )
beautifulxxdisaster
05-01-2007, 04:02 AM
Ya so today was the first day in my club w./o smoking! It was actualy enjoyable because my eyes weren't burning as usual and i could breath alot more clearly ^.^
ALSO WANTED TO LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT PINK IS FINALLY OPEN
YAYAAYYAAAAAAA!!!
Bridgette
05-01-2007, 05:48 AM
Damn it, I can't make it to see you Tuesday, but if you would work an afternoon shift a little more often it would sure improve my odds!I actually plan to work more afternoons for the next couple months. I'm a bit burnt out on HL but the shift-change will help. I wish I could find a club in AZ where I could make ATL money, or even something close. Dammit, it's discouraging :(
Anyway, I'll be in on Tuesday, Thu, Fri this week. Mets are playing in town, woohoo!! I always have good luck with NYC boys ;D
doc-catfish
05-01-2007, 06:37 AM
The one place where I've been with a smoking ban was Minneapolis. I don't think it cut down on customer traffic, but I still remember the young lady who missed out on selling me a few dances because she picked an inopportune time to take a nicotine break. Like RH said, there will be a period of adjustment (and searching for loopholes) and then everything should be back to normal.
Speaking of AZ, I do have some open leave time around Columbus Day and was possibly considering a little road trip out that way. How things are out there about then. Namely the weather, the traffic, the activity in the SC's, if Bridgette will be there?
Its a big if at the moment. If gas prices are still too high (and they'll be higher out there regardless), or I haven't gotten off my ass and bought a new car by then, it ain't happening.
Bridgette
05-01-2007, 03:29 PM
The weather is cooling off in October, and traffic and business are picking up. It's not exactly high season yet though - that comes later on. I think the snowbirds come in full swing around Nov-Dec, and especially January.
I'll be living here at that time, but whether I'll be travelling or not, one never knows... ;D
Richard_Head
05-01-2007, 06:36 PM
Speaking of AZ, I do have some open leave time around Columbus Day and was possibly considering a little road trip out that way. How things are out there about then. Namely the weather, the traffic, the activity in the SC's, if Bridgette will be there? October is nice, that's when it starts to cool off and like Bridgette mentioned traffic is not quite as bad just yet. As for the clubs, I've had no problems with October, I don't know that the dancers feel the same way but that doesn't effect me much, it may even work to my advantage.
Bridgette
05-02-2007, 02:16 AM
Ahh, worked tonight for the first night of no smoking. Not much money being May 1, no games in town and all the girls out trying to pay rent before it's late on the 5th ::) But it was oh-so-nice not breathing that crap and not smelling like an ashtray now ;D YAY!
xdamage
05-02-2007, 05:32 AM
::) But it was oh-so-nice not breathing that crap and not smelling like an ashtray now ;D YAY!
Yea, you know for me it's not the occasional second hand smoke that I'm uncomfortable around. Like I can cope with someone I'm with lighting up one in well ventilated area and it's no problem for me, enjoy, but... that's totally different from having to work in an environment where many people are smoking often, and you have to be there 8hrs a day, multiple days a week. Particularly for those among you who don't smoke, it really is a dramatic improvement in working conditions.
Bridgette
05-03-2007, 04:13 AM
it really is a dramatic improvement in working conditions.
HUGE. I can actually put my makeup on in the dressing room without dealing with watery eyes, coughing and snorting from all the smoke. No more nasty cigars stinking up the place or choking me as I'm trying to dance. And really, the improvement in the way I feel after work is drastic: less tired, no sore throat, no coughing, and I wake up the next day feeling normal, instead of shitty. Not to mention my clothes, workbag and self smelling a jillion times better.
There's still a bit of old smoky smell in the building and that won't go away until they change the carpet and chair upholstery, or maybe use one of those ozone machines. But it still smells 100 times better as-is.
:party:
xdamage
05-03-2007, 04:28 PM
Now I'm just hopeful that the smoking regulations that have taken effect in Atlantic City find their way to Las Vegas. As much as I enjoy visiting LV, after a day in Vegas my eyes (was "ears" - ty Richard Head, my Editor) are red from the excessive smoke exposure. The good hotels clean and replace the carpets often, but even so, the stench of smoke residue is hard to miss.
It doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me for the big hotels to provide smoking areas, and I know I'd enjoy my SC visits more if I didn't have second hand smoke in my eyes and face. The worse is cheap cigars; get 2 or 3 guys smoking those and the air is just plain out foul.
Even if you are a smoker, I'm thinking you'd have to feel some sense of pity for the employees that have to work in that kind of environment 5 days a week, for weeks, months, years.
Richard_Head
05-03-2007, 06:01 PM
As much as I enjoy visiting LV, after a day in Vegas my ears are red from the excessive smoke exposure. You've got sensitive ears do you;D?
xdamage
05-04-2007, 05:24 AM
You've got sensitive ears do you;D?
lol - remind me to proofread
eyes, eyes, eyes
Richard_Head
05-04-2007, 07:07 AM
I made a stop to Skin Cabaret last night and I must say I really love the smoking ban, it was so nice to leave that place without smelling like an ashtray, I think my Fabreeze bill is going to be cut in half. The place was pretty busy too so I think the fears of lost business is a bit unfounded.
I also got the chance to meet SW's own LatinaRose, I was very impressed, what a nice girl, very easy on the eyes too.
GenWar
05-04-2007, 08:21 AM
Now I'm just hopeful that the smoking regulations that have taken effect in Atlantic City find their way to Las Vegas. As much as I enjoy visiting LV, after a day in Vegas my eyes (was "ears" - ty Richard Head, my Editor) are red from the excessive smoke exposure.
Actually, they did pass a smoking ban in Las Vegas. Of course, given their "sinful" reputation, they did have to go the extra mile to use their heads and pass a good, quality law that makes sense and still respects fundamental American freedom.
http://www.gethealthyclarkcounty.org/tobacco/faq.html
It is possible to ban smoking and still not leave smokers huddled outside like ashamed cattle. The only ban better than Vegas' is Philadelphia's, in my opinion. Philly, as near as I can read it, has passed a universal ban like Arizona's, but has made the exemptions pretty easy to obtain, for the right establishment. A tobacco shop or any decent club is procuring an exception to the smoking law. But your average restaurant won't be able to.
All I can say, Xdam, is come on up to the Empire. Not only do we have a ridiculous smoking ban, but we'll tax your balls off too. I love New York. :-\
-gen
xdamage
05-04-2007, 08:39 AM
It is possible to ban smoking and still not leave smokers huddled outside like ashamed cattle.
-gen
What A.C. has done for now is set aside 75% of the Casino floors as non smoking, 25% smoking. There is no need for smokers to go outside, but it does provide non smokers with some areas to play where previously they have no choice but to play next to someone who is smoking. From what I saw, the Casinos have included the bars within their 25% allotment of smoke friendly space, as well as considerable areas for slot players, and in some cases, something for table players as well.
This seems like a reasonable compromise and what I'd like to see happen in LV Casinos. I know as a non-smoker I enjoyed being able to play some B.J. without smoke in my eyes. My SO, the slot player, enjoyed the ability to play without having smoke in her eyes. Nobody needed to go outside like huddled cattle ;)
GenWar
05-04-2007, 12:06 PM
What A.C. has done for now is set aside 75% of the Casino floors as non smoking, 25% smoking. There is no need for smokers to go outside, but it does provide non smokers with some areas to play where previously they have no choice but to play next to someone who is smoking. From what I saw, the Casinos have included the bars within their 25% allotment of smoke friendly space, as well as considerable areas for slot players, and in some cases, something for table players as well.
This seems like a reasonable compromise and what I'd like to see happen in LV Casinos. I know as a non-smoker I enjoyed being able to play some B.J. without smoke in my eyes. My SO, the slot player, enjoyed the ability to play without having smoke in her eyes. Nobody needed to go outside like huddled cattle ;)
I do believe some of the casino's in Vegas have a similar setup, voluntarily. Look around next time you are out there...I bet you'll find what you're looking for. Or gamble in a grocery store. No smoking there :)
-gen
Bridgette
05-07-2007, 02:58 AM
gamble in a grocery store. No smoking there :)
Just to play devil's advocate a bit. So you'd expect the non-smokers to be relegated to grocery store gambling so that the smokers won't have to, god forbid, step outside a few minutes? :P
GenWar
05-07-2007, 04:01 AM
Just to play devil's advocate a bit. So you'd expect the non-smokers to be relegated to grocery store gambling so that the smokers won't have to, god forbid, step outside a few minutes? :P
Not at all. I think it is fair for the non-smokers to demand smoke free environments from the casino using the free market. They can and do get it, from certain casinos. Others, they won't. (I was just pointing out that, in Vegas, because of the law, this environment is guaranteed smoke free, without fail. Any other venue, at this stage, is a crapshoot, unless you know them to be smokefree.)
If every business in America decided that smoking was bad for their business and banned it, I would have NO complaint. My complaint is when the government makes that decision FOR them, whether they like it or not.
And, I know it seems like such a minor inconvenience to impose on cigarette smokers. Indeed, many of them that I know, don't mind ducking outside for 5 minutes to hande their business. But, speaking for me personally, I am not a cigarette smoker. I am a cigar smoker. If I light up, I am there for a minimum of an hour, more typically 2 hours. I do not relish stepping outside for that length of time.
-gen
xdamage
05-07-2007, 08:57 AM
If every business in America decided that smoking was bad for their business and banned it, I would have NO complaint. My complaint is when the government makes that decision FOR them, whether they like it or not.
I guess it depends if you think that "businesses" want to allow smoking and can't opt out, or if you think the business wants to run a smoke free establishment, and welcomes the laws to back a choice they would like to make anyway, but can't enforce without a legal ban.
The media tends to push the most shocking stories, such as "Businesses to suffer huge loss of profits..." but the more balanced view, especially now that it has been shown that no such thing happened in Norway (a nationwide ban) or California, is that nothing much happens. People still go out to eat, drink, see strippers, gamble, etc., whether they can smoke inside or not.
I also think the idea that a "business" should decide for itself if smoking is allowed is questionable. Why? Because it implies that the business is an entity independent of the people that work there and the consumers (when applicable) that use the services. That the "business owner" should be able to do whatever they want, but business owners are already bound by endless laws and requirements to protect their employees and patrons. From a non-smokers point of view, I'd say that majority are telling business owners we want this change. We want to be able to work and shop in these businesses without having to breathe second hand smoke. It burns our eyes, leaves us coughing, stinks up our clothes (costing us more in dry cleaning bills for those of us who wear suits), and may contribute to our risk of developing lung cancer.
The argument that business will suffer huge losses is also becoming less valid as we have seen what has happened in in California, and Norway. Nothing really happens, business goes on. People still go out to eat, they still go out to drink, they still gamble, go to stripclubs, etc. The only thing that happens is that majority of people, the non-smokers are happier, and the minority are less happy. But since this is a case of one group or the other is going to be unhappy, I'm all in favor of the majority in this case. Smokers aren't going to die if they can't smoke indoors. Their health won't suffer. They are simply missing out on a ?harmless? pleasure, not much different then not being able to drink in public, have sex in public, play loud music that disturbs others, and so on. All things that people are allowed to do, just in a private setting. On the other hand if it is harmful, second hand smoke, then I think it's very reasonable that the majority push for laws that require business owners to provide a safer place to work, shop, and entertain ourselves. And I don't think giving them a choice to opt out on the grounds that it will harm business is valid anymore.
That leaves private clubs, restaurants, etc., should they be allowed to opt out? That's one of those grey areas because there is no point in having a legal ban if every business can just opt out out of fear that their business will be hurt. If say the club was a smoking club that sells cigars and the focus of the club is on smoking, well then of course, smoking should be allowed since the employees and patrons understand explicitly that this is a place where people go to smoke. On the other hand when it comes to restaurants, and bars that sell food, and drinks (and have maybe a cigarette machine near the toilets) I'd say it's fairly clear to me that smoking is secondary pleasure that has little to do with the core business. I would say such a business should not be able to easily privatize itself just to avoid the smoking ban. It was public before, so should remain public after. But in any case, that's why we have a legal system, the debate these kinds of things. There are no perfect answers that makes everyone happy, just sets of compromises that hopefully make most people happy most of the time, and don't seriously harm the minority.
Richard_Head
05-28-2007, 12:44 PM
Interesting, Fantasy Island in Tempe burned down over the weekend.
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/cabaretfire05282007-CR.html
I had never been there and hadn't heard much good about the place but I do find it interesting considering that Bombshells also had a fire not long ago. The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if there is a serial arsonist on the loose.
ExoticEngineer
05-28-2007, 02:47 PM
Isn't there a rule about this, like two is a coincidence, three is intentional.... something like that I'm sure.
Fantasy Island has been around for a VERY long time. Now did they burn down or was it a partial fire like at Bombshells?
doc-catfish
05-28-2007, 03:06 PM
I don't know what kind of business that place got, but usually when a struggling business burns down and the cause is determined to be arson, its usually someone trying to collect some insurance money. With respect to businesses like nightclubs that have an enormously high failure rate, its not that uncommon.
One of the clubs upstate burned about three years or so ago. There just happened to be a vintage Harley Davidson on the premises at the time that got destroyed along with all of the furniture. I mean what are the odds?
Turned out the club owners conveniently enough also owned a construction business. The place was back in operation within ten weeks of the fire. Good as new. Better in fact.
Richard_Head
05-28-2007, 05:22 PM
Fantasy Island has been around for a VERY long time. Now did they burn down or was it a partial fire like at Bombshells?The story in the link says that the building is a total loss.
I don't know what kind of business that place got, but usually when a struggling business burns down and the cause is determined to be arson, its usually someone trying to collect some insurance money. With respect to businesses like nightclubs that have an enormously high failure rate, its not that uncommon.That certainly wouldn't shock me, still I found it curious that there would fires at 2 different strip clubs in a relatively short period time.
ExoticEngineer
05-28-2007, 08:39 PM
RH, do you have a link to the story, for some reason (net-challenged) I cannot find it.
Richard_Head
05-28-2007, 09:48 PM
RH, do you have a link to the story, for some reason (net-challenged) I cannot find it.
Here you go:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0528stripfire-ON.html
ExoticEngineer
05-29-2007, 09:35 AM
Damn... well, I'm not sure it would be intentional for insurance reasons, there were still people inside. Who knows though.
Hmmm, creepy to think about the alternatives though. Thnx for the link RH. Muah!
beautifulxxdisaster
06-04-2007, 01:53 AM
I've heard bad things about fantasy island! I heard they have secret hall ways where the private rooms are and two way mirrors and the owner years ago used to watch the girls give private shows and get off ::::yucki:::: who knows though
I've heard bad things about fantasy island! I heard they have secret hall ways where the private rooms are and two way mirrors and the owner years ago used to watch the girls give private shows and get off ::::yucki:::: who knows though
The place was a dive. I'm surprised it hung on as long as it did. If indeed the structure was occupied, and it was arson, then that makes it a whole new class of felony, which will go far beyond just insurance fraud. And, if this was on a county island, then I presume the investigating LE agency would be Sheriff Joe?
Maybe Scottsdale will try again with their ordinance, with new statistics that strip clubs are magnets for arsonists!
Chili Palmer
06-07-2007, 11:28 PM
Dear Post Office:
Until further notice, please forward all my mail to Centerfold's VIP Room.
Thank you,
Chili Palmer
So, last week a couple of buddies and I came up to Phoenix to watch the D'Backs lose to the Giants in an early game, and then spent some time at Christie's Phoenix before heading out.
On our way back to the freeway, we wandered down Van Buren and saw the new club Babylon with a PACKED parking lot, and this is a very big parking lot! We didn't have time to extend our field activities, but the number of cars definitely got our attention. Has anyone checked this place out yet?
ExoticEngineer
07-03-2007, 11:59 PM
So, last week a couple of buddies and I came up to Phoenix to watch the D'Backs lose to the Giants in an early game, and then spent some time at Christie's Phoenix before heading out.
On our way back to the freeway, we wandered down Van Buren and saw the new club Babylon with a PACKED parking lot, and this is a very big parking lot! We didn't have time to extend our field activities, but the number of cars definitely got our attention. Has anyone checked this place out yet?
Perk!
beautifulxxdisaster
07-07-2007, 05:11 PM
I can't wait to check out Babylon~!!!!!! I saw an advertisment for it in Playtime and i am going to go next thursday and check it out =0)
OO and on thursdays if you show them a 'sexy' tat then you get in free YAAA
Richard_Head
07-08-2007, 12:50 PM
I can't wait to check out Babylon~!!!!!! I saw an advertisment for it in Playtime and i am going to go next thursday and check it out =0)
OO and on thursdays if you show them a 'sexy' tat then you get in free YAAAIt looks nice from the ads but that location stinks and I'm having a hard time getting over the fact that it used to be a gay male strip club called Dick's.
Chili Palmer
07-08-2007, 05:55 PM
More proof you don't need to be much more than breathing to run one of these clubs...
The Phoenix New Times has a 1/2 page ad in it simultaneously trumpeting that Babylon is "Now Open" while halfway down telling us the club will have its "Grand Opening This September."
Apparently, the "Next Level in Adult Entertainment" is "Over 7 [sic] feet, 5500 pounds and has wings." But what I am really looking forward to is relaxing in one of their "Message Chairs" after a hard day's texting at work, I guess.
Regardless, I'll try and stop by on Thursday evening and see what's what. I made a visit out to "pinks" cabaret, but haven't had the time to write a full review. Bottom line: If you're gonna drive out to Glendale, you'll probably have a better chance of having a good time at Cabela's rather than this place. All sizzle, no substance.
CP
beautifulxxdisaster
07-09-2007, 05:08 PM
Hey does ne one know if it is illegal to be closer then 3 feet in a private show if you have your panties down(but not past your knees),because some clubs have diff. rules.
I've worked at a nude club were your allowed to get naked in the show! I was the only girl that kept my panties on there and it was soo hard to make money cuz of that-
My club now were allowed to take them down to our knees and we don't have a 3 foot rule...is that illegal???
ExoticEngineer
07-10-2007, 02:05 PM
^Your club may say you are allowed, but if you want to be sure, in case you are worried about someone coming in and busting you, then you need to look up the laws for whatever city/county you are in.
I know Scottsdale is different than Phx, and Phx may be different than glendale, etc....
Richard_Head
07-11-2007, 08:49 PM
The city of Scottsdale voted to allow lap dances last night, they didn't really have much choice as they voters overturned their attempt at legislating morality last year. What a waste of tax payer money that turned out to be. Here are a couple of links: Arizona Republic (http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/0711stripclubs0711.html) & East Valley Tribune (http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/93038). It doesn't really look like much will be changing, the girls need to wear pasties and thongs but they were basically doing that already.
(http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/0711stripclubs0711.html)
beautifulxxdisaster
07-12-2007, 11:50 PM
I worked at Babylon last night =0)
I really like it!! Business was really slow- but they are having 'the grand opening' in september. That club has so much potential- i can't wait for it to pick up;D
I worked at Babylon last night =0)
I really like it!! Business was really slow- but they are having 'the grand opening' in september. That club has so much potential- i can't wait for it to pick up;D
OK, so what's the place like inside? How many stages? VIP or private dance areas? Sofas? Contact levels? Dance prices? Drink prices? Any other tidbits to entice a junkie to darken the door of this place? }:D
Lyssa Lynn
07-14-2007, 12:15 PM
It's nude/ no alcohol right? Thanks but I'll keep my kitty covered and clean and keep on enjoying my champagne! Place did look pretty in the pics though. What's the custom smoking area about?
ExoticEngineer
07-14-2007, 01:01 PM
I had heard that they would be going to topless soon though. If that's the case, I'll check it out then.
Is there anywhere I can some info on the place? What pics are you all talking about? I'm so curious! I looked at it on satellite and it looks to be a decent sized club....