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Lilith
03-14-2004, 01:28 PM
Let's reverse the analyze-a-stripper thread and you guys can analyze my regulars, 'cause I am thoroughly pissed off. Unless someone gives me a damned good reason not to, these guys will be on their own the next time they come in.

I had two regulars hit the club last night, NylonGuy and Italy guy. A brief description of our respective relationships to date:

NylonGuy has a nylon fetish (obviously). He sees a girl whose legs turn him on in just the right way, and asks her what size nylons she wears. Then he buys her some. This is what happened with me, anyways. The guy then sits tableside with me and pays per song merely to massage my nyloned calves, play with my feet and watch me pose/walk. I keep my schoolgirl outfit, skirt and the nylons in my bag at all times. Normally he is strictly a Sunday/Monday customer but he moved to GA a month ago, and now pops in at the oddest (read: inconvenient) times (busiest hours late on Friday, for example). I've told him to leave and come back when I am not booked for the night, but he stubbornly stays anyways, "just in case".

After a couple of the busy-time incidences, I got his email so we could coordinate his visits better. I also went to breakfast with him last Saturday, at his request (umm... "beg" would be a better term); he bought me a cup of coffee and played with my feet (I wore the stupid nylons) while we chatted. I should note that he did not pay for this, AND that he had been given two songs free earlier that same night in the club because I simply couldn't get to him.

Friday (two nights ago) he came in again, though far earlier. I turned down dances, right in front of him, so that he could have his time. O)nce I had the nylons on, though, a bouncer said that he couldn't do his rub-my-legs thing unless he was in VIP. I negotiated with the bouncer and the manager until they finally conceeded and let me take the session to the pool room. NylonGuy was ticked and almost left; he'd been doing this in this specific club for years, and had never had a bouncer tell him he couldn't. But I prevailed and he had fun with the nylons, and I chatted with him and gave him a back rub. He was tickled pink by the end of an hour and a half, and made me promise that I would email him again.

I should also mention that NylonGuy started off by paying me near-VIP prices per song and quickly went down to just $10 per song. For the whole brou-haha two nights ago, I received $100. However, he did make a big issue of how loyal he is.

He popped in last night on what he said was purely a social call. Tipped my stage show (and this guy never pays any attention to stage shows, nor does he buy dances... just the nylons) and gave me a new skirt for my schoolgirl outfit. He said he was leaving, so I went back to work. Not ten minutes later, a new girl goes into the dressing room and says she has some weirdo asking her to wear nylons for him. Yep, it's the same guy. And he paid her more.

Moving on to Asshole the Second:

Italy guy has been exclusive with me for about four months now, though not so exclusive that he made it verbally clear that he wants no other dancer. He simply turns down everyone but me. He's a great guy and I genuinely like him, and the feeling is mutual. He went on a business trip to Italy and came in to the club the very night he got back; he tipped me on stage before he even bothered to get a drink.

I saw him last night and immediately headed his way. We talked for a bit about his house (recently remodeled, expanded and in the process of entirely new furnishings). His buddy asked me to find him a girl so he wouldn't be lonely when we hit VIP, and I did. The chatter went on for maybe 20 minutes and then Italy guy went to the restroom, telling me to wait for him. I did, and we moved to the bar, but now he said that I could mosey around if I wanted, but he would like it if I would find him later. So off I went. About an hour later I noticed him and joined him again. I confess to feeling a little impatient; yeah, the guy likes to talk and usually closes the place down, but geez. So I asked if he was ready after only a minute or so. He said that he wasn't buying dances tonight. Not five minutes later he took another dancer to VIP and stayed there until the VIP room closed.


Unless someone gives me a damned good reason not to, these guys are taking a flying leap. I am so pissed off, and (yeah, I'll admit it) more than a little hurt. All the efforts I go to so these guys are happy and entertained, and they return the favor by shitting on me. I liked Italy guy, and he purposefully wasted my time and lied to me. (And Mr_P, please do not take this opportunity to rip me apart for the fun of it. I'm feeling prickly enough as it is).

fishnet
03-14-2004, 01:48 PM
Geez Lilith!!! Both guys dumped on you big time. IMHO, they screwed up plain and simple. I don't waste a dancer's time if I'm not spending. As far as those guys go, till their spending increases, I wouldn't do 'em any favors. ::) Squeeze 'em in at your convenience.

Moneywise
03-14-2004, 01:52 PM
Both gentlemen (and I use that term loosely) appear to have had the desire to expand a bit but were either:

1. Too afraid to tell you they wanted to spend their money elsewhere for the night.

2. Lack the basic consideration to be up front with you so that you could press on and do your thing instead of spending countless time with them only to be treated unfairly in the end.

I'm sorry to hear you had to experience that from not one but two regulars. These same individuals will be right back in looking for you next time appearing totally oblivious to what happened recently. Something tells me you won't forget though. ;)

Lilith
03-14-2004, 02:01 PM
Forget?! *snort* Not bloody likely. I feel like I've been mentally slapped. The redhead in me is content with nothing less than cold fury and revenge. The only reason I have kept myself in check was so that I could get the opinion of my Junkies before I allow myself to privately fly off the handle.

fishnet
03-14-2004, 02:18 PM
BTW...If you do business with Nylon Guy again, I'd remind him what you expect per song before you start. Then he can accept or decline. $10 a song may be adequate if he is the only customer in the house. Otherwise, furgedtaboutit. :P

fishnet
03-14-2004, 02:22 PM
Chuck this is off topic but...Lilith are you any closer to getting the BA you talked about last year? Can't wait to read some stories when you are on equal footing with the other girls. :)

Richard_Head
03-14-2004, 02:28 PM
I don't think it was anything personal, guys are fickle creatures, what one night does it for us, other nights won't. While they were certainly out of line in wasting your time any lying to you, I'm guessing they are still good for some future income and that's all that really matters isn't it, I'd suggest against burning any bridges with them.

Bridgette
03-14-2004, 02:34 PM
Lilith, I would drop both of them without a thought.

I think I already posted to you elsewhere that I would have dropped Nylon Guy before. He had already become a nuisance by dropping his spending while expecting the same treatment/time, THEN added the fact that he was coming in during busy times and apparently expecting you to still cater to him even though you would lose money in doing so. That is a liability and that's that. I suspect that his turning to a new girl was the result of his being 'put-off' by your wanting to maximize your busy nights rather than accept his low season money whenever he decided to grace you with his presence. Whatever. Let him. If he finds another girl who is willing to take his cheapass rates when she could be making more in VIP, so be it. You'll be in VIP!

The other one possibly just got a hankering for fresh meat, or perhaps, felt things were getting too comfortable with you, or maybe was getting off on his own little ego trip that he 'had you' because you came right over immediately upon seeing him and decided to go after a new one. So what? You can spend whatever time you used on him to generate other business.

It is also highly possible that both of them were after more service than you're going to provide, and they just both happened to realize it's not happening and moved along at the same time. It's all part of the deal.

I've said it many times, but regulars are generally a bigger pain in the ass than they're worth. There are always more customers and there is no need to stress over them. I'll be the first to give a guy the boot when he becomes even slightly annoying. Hell I won't even dance for a guy a second time anymore if he was a pain in the ass the first time, even if he asks! In my opinion, you let them get the upper hand when you start treating them like their money is more important than someone else's. No matter how regular, their money is no better than anyone else's. Whatever time you spend hassling with some regular could be put to use generating income elsewhere. You always have the upper hand when you realize you can get the same money from a different guy with less bullshit. I can't remember who but I think it was an SCJ who wrote a while back that they want you more when you project the attitude that you don't care about their money. I've tested it and it's true. When you really couldn't give a damn, suddenly you have way more options and you become the one with the bargaining chips. "I'd love to dance for you but I already have 2 guys waiting. I'll be happy to come over when I have time." OR to Mr Grabby, "You know I've tried to be nice but you don't seem to understand the rules, and there are other guys in here who want my attention and will pay for it without (insert rude action here) in the process." You might be surprised how fast the wallets fly open to keep you there when they know you are in demand and may not get back around again. Even if you're not swamped, look like you are and you WILL be. :biggrin:

I realize you are not lacking in hustling skills, but even the best of us need a little light smack in the head now and then for perspective ;)

Lilith
03-14-2004, 02:53 PM
Chuck this is off topic but...Lilith are you any closer to getting the BA you talked about last year? Can't wait to read some stories when you are on equal footing with the other girls. :)


It's not entirely off-topic. Y'all know how sensitive I am about it; my first knee-jerk reaction to Italy guy was that he was treating me as not worth consideration because I don't take my top off. THAT thought stung like hell.

The good news is that I have the cash on hand for a BA. The bad news is that I was sort of hoping to get it done before I went back to VA Beach for a month, and I don't think I'm going to be able to. I didn't earn fast enough to get a surgery date in time. I also have a wedding and honeymoon to pay for, so I'm juggling on how I can afford both. I might just take the plunge on the BA and hope my luck holds enough so that I can find reception sites and other miscellania without any notice once my tax return comes back, plus my earnings after I return from the BA.

Lilith
03-14-2004, 03:01 PM
I imagine it's very tough. You want to keep the business, and if you enjoy the reg's company, you want to keep him entertained.


Not nearly as tough as you think. All I needed was a few trustworthy opinions from my Junkies that I was not being a possessive, flaky dancer trying to dictate some poor sap's wallet. I wasn't sure if I had genuine cause to be pissed. Rest assured that I most certainly AM pissed and these two can collectively kiss my lily-white arse end. I value my regulars for their guaranteed expenditures, generous tips and minimum hassle. These two no longer qualify.

yoda57us
03-14-2004, 03:16 PM
Sounds like you've made up your mind but let me throw in my 2 cents anyway....

Dump em'. You go out of your way for these guys-as any good dancer would for her regulars-and they get wierd on you (well, wierder, in the case of nylon guy, who may qualify as a "fetish fuckoe").

I've had similar conversations with girls at the clubs I frequent and once guys start pulling the stuff you are talking about they are probably on the way to cutting what they spend on you anyway. If you can consider the loss of revenue as acceptable then it sounds like you are in a good position to cut the cord on these two guys.

Lilith
03-14-2004, 03:16 PM
I've said it many times, but regulars are generally a bigger pain in the ass than they're worth.

My experience has been different. Aside from Nylon Guy, my regulars can be counted on for many dances plus a very generous tip. That why I cater to them (or maybe that's why I get such large tips... chicken or the egg). Five dances with a regular makes me more money than five dances with Joe Schmoe. NylonGuy is the exception, but I allowed this because he was a slow-time guy, who guaranteed me earnings during off-peak hours. Discounted rates at 8PM on a Monday night made me more money than other girls who unsuccessfully hustled early customers (they don't spend early 'round here).

In other words, they've pretty much earned their keep as far as the hassle-to-income ratio went, plus some. I'll only keep a regular who weighs positively on the hassle factor, because otherwise it's not worth it.

FBR
03-14-2004, 03:17 PM
Lilith, youre not being flakey or possesive at all. Although you didnt have a damn written contract or anything, I believe the guys did renig on a verbal understanding. Cool off before you talk to them again if you can. They may still be good for some future cash but no special deals or dances etc. In other words, treat them like any Joe Blow walking in off the street.

Thats the practical FBR talking. No sense costing yourself money. On a more illogical, personal level I would be spitting nails. Ive been dissed before by a dancer to whom I thought I was special. It hurt like hell. Its no different when the customer does the dissing especially to a dancer whom I believe tries to play the game up front and honestly.

Good luck!

FBR

afxturnip
03-14-2004, 03:18 PM
Can't wait to read some stories when you are on equal footing with the other girls. :)


Ahem.

From what I have heard and read about, and from what I know by chatting with Lilith, the other girls need to worry about how they stand up. I doubt many can compare.

-afx

FBR
03-14-2004, 03:21 PM
(And Mr_P, please do not take this opportunity to rip me apart for the fun of it. I'm feeling prickly enough as it is).


Sorry...I kind of chuckled when I read this. Mr_P may be brutally honest sometimes..well OK all the time...but hes not cruel. If there was ever a Return on Investment kind of person, it would be Mr_P. Im sure he would appreciate you wanting to maximize your "mileage" just like he does.

FBR

espy
03-14-2004, 08:55 PM
Hey Red, you've got to Relax! I'm reading a big time tension convention going on with you and that's just reading. I can't imagine what your body language is like when you have been near these guys lately. They could be reading that and steering away from you because of it.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You have many other customers to choose from and you'll find others who want to spend quality time and money with/on you.

As far as the $ for the BA or wedding goes, what's your priority? (no need to answer)

Hell, I would have been happy to make $350 in a shift, but that's just me!

Go down twice? Yeah, I'd be there! :P

mr_punk
03-14-2004, 10:14 PM
And Mr_P, please do not take this opportunity to rip me apart for the fun of it. I'm feeling prickly enough as it is you got me all wrong. ;D


I should also mention that NylonGuy started off by paying me near-VIP prices per song and quickly went down to just $10 per song. For the whole brou-haha two nights ago, I received $100. However, he did make a big issue of how loyal he is.
He popped in last night on what he said was purely a social call. Tipped my stage show (and this guy never pays any attention to stage shows, nor does he buy dances... just the nylons) and gave me a new skirt for my schoolgirl outfit. He said he was leaving, so I went back to work. Not ten minutes later, a new girl goes into the dressing room and says she has some weirdo asking her to wear nylons for him. Yep, it's the same guy. And he paid her more.a social call? a drop in income? a new girls for his fetish? ugh....drop him like a bad cold. he's probably going to drop you soon for another girl or become even more demanding. you could stick around to squeeze a few more dollars out of him, but just don't go out your way to accomadate him if it isn't possible on a busy night.



Moving on to Asshole the Second:
Italy guy has been exclusive with me for about four months now, though not so exclusive that he made it verbally clear that he wants no other dancer.smart man, never verbally commit to one dancer if you can help it. later on, i can always give them my innocent "who me?" look :angel:. i like this guy :).


About an hour later I noticed him and joined him again. I confess to feeling a little impatient; yeah, the guy likes to talk and usually closes the place down, but geez. So I asked if he was ready after only a minute or so. He said that he wasn't buying dances tonight. Not five minutes later he took another dancer to VIP and stayed there until the VIP room closed.

Unless someone gives me a damned good reason not to, these guys are taking a flying leap. I am so pissed off, and (yeah, I'll admit it) more than a little hurt. All the efforts I go to so these guys are happy and entertained, and they return the favor by shitting on me. I liked Italy guy, and he purposefully wasted my time and lied to me. it might have been just one of those nights when he's in the mood to try something else. if it becomes a habit then i would start worrying. however, i wouldn't let IG know you're feeling pissed under any circumstances. it might drive him off for good if he feels you're breaking his balls. OTOH, if i was in his position and a dancer let me know that she was feeling pissed that i didn't buy any dances from her. it would be like waving a bloody steak in a shark pool. i would start lubing up my fingers and wondering the best way to turn this situation to my advantage :detective:. in any case, the next time he shows up, get to him early and if he doesn't buy any dances, come back later, but not as often as you usually do. sometimes constantly fawning over certain customers can be a turn-off.

Katrine
03-14-2004, 10:44 PM
This is why I seldomly keep regulars and always am ready to let them go as needed.

Mr.P....are you lubing up your fingers to stick up your own ass? Don't use too much lube...I want you to feel the pain.....

polecat
03-14-2004, 10:48 PM
Wow Lilith!

I really hate to read this kind of crap because it's very rare to find dancers that will bend over backwards to accomodate their customers, and it always seems to be those rare few that get doggie-doodie in return.

I have to concur with the others- Nylon Guy needs to be gone. He can get his kicks anywhere so retaining him is going to be a barter/haggle system. He's interested in nylon brandished calves, not you, so he's going to work a diminishing returns scale in order to maximize his visits.

Italy Guy is a different story. It sounds like he was all lined up for the normal thing, but changed his mind shortly after. The discussion and having you fetch someone for his friend... everything seemed okay until then. It could have been a million reasons why the bathroom visit changed his mind, since that's the point I see things changing. He wanted you to wait for him. You might want someone to check the men's room. Maybe there is some graffiti that says "Lilith was formerly MAN!" on the stall walls? LOL

Lilith
03-14-2004, 10:56 PM
Moving on to Asshole the Second:
Italy guy has been exclusive with me for about four months now, though not so exclusive that he made it verbally clear that he wants no other dancer.smart man, never verbally commit to one dancer if you can help it. later on, i can always give them my innocent "who me?" look :angel:. i like this guy :).

I mentioned that for a reason. I know that he hasn't given any firm indication of devotion and I pointed that out because I didn't want people to think that I was pissed because he got dances from someone else. He made no promises, thus violated no boundaries. I was hoping the addition of this information would make it clear that I was pissed off about being told to wait, told to come back and then lied to.

I imagine it's somewhat akin to knowing a good extras dancer, making arrangements for your sixth private session with her, checking your pocket for a condom, and then having her stop at some DFK saying she's on the rag. And then discovering that she gave BBBJNQNS and FS to your buddy in the next hotel room one hour later, after meeting him in the elevator, with no Aunt Flo in sight.


I still haven't decided what to do about Italy guy. My prime standard for dancing is that I won't do anything that I can't sleep well with at night; that includes making nicey-nice with people I'd rather verbally ream out. On the other hand, Italy guy's buddy, who almost always accompanies him to the club, spends just as nicely as IG. With a bit of finesse I can probably transition to IG's buddy smoothly, realize no drop in income and still leave IG to his enjoyments without having to deal with him myself.

mr_punk
03-14-2004, 10:58 PM
Mr.P....are you lubing up your fingers to stick up your own ass? Don't use too much lube...I want you to feel the pain.....et tu, kittie? first, adina wanted me to be her BOB and now you want me to stick something up my ass also? i like a good prostate massage as much as the next guy, but this is getting ridiculous.

Katrine
03-14-2004, 11:02 PM
What is BOB? Who is Adina? I don't hate you Punkie because I don't play that competition for regulars game. I'd have fun struggling with you, and even more fun watching my bouncer beat you to a pulp....meow!

afxturnip
03-14-2004, 11:10 PM
With a bit of finesse I can probably transition to IG's buddy smoothly, realize no drop in income and still leave IG to his enjoyments without having to deal with him myself.


Sounds like a plan to me. No need burning bridges unless absolutely necessary.

-afx

mr_punk
03-14-2004, 11:19 PM
What is BOB? Who is Adina?BOB = bend over boyfriend. or you can take a look at this thread (http://www.stripclubjunkie.com/forum/index.php/yabbse/t1207.htm).



I don't hate you Punkie because I don't play that competition for regulars game. I'd have fun struggling with you, and even more fun watching my bouncer beat you to a pulp....meow! i didn't get that impression from you, kittie. in any case, the bouncer is going to have to wait in line behind my ex-wives. i feel sorry for the poor bastard if he even thinks about cutting to the head of the line. :fight:

Kittie
03-15-2004, 12:31 AM
Is he talking to me? ???

Kittie
03-15-2004, 12:37 AM
Nevermind.....just read the entire thread. My bad.

Malibu
03-15-2004, 01:18 AM
Sorry guys, couldn't read all the posts so apologies if I'm repeating someone else...

For Nylon guy...

do you think he dropped you because you were too accommodating (esp. with price)? From what I've read, another turn on from fetish guys is the fact they have to pay up large sums to get their desires granted, and yeah, if it requires, a li'l assertiveness on the tough side of your character is also good. Don't get too nice. It can cost you and make you lose something in their eyes.

And Italy guy...

Screw 'im. Get busy with other peeps and ignore him. You'll seem more desirable. Hankering after others makes you lose appeal. I did this exact thing to one regular who had to lied to me. I ignored him everytime he came into my club and got lots of dances from others. I could tell he was hurt and probably jealous, but noone made him lie. His way of trying to get into my good books was getting ALL his friends to buy dances from me. Suer, I took the dances, but I still ignored him *chuckle* Yeah, I can be a biyatch sometimes.

Zabrina
03-15-2004, 01:37 AM
It's time for nylon guy to go from regular status, to just another customer. He's cheap and a pain to deal with, but if it's Monday and it's slow, I'd be friendly again. I would never burn any bridges, nor have hard feelings towards either guy. They are customers, not friends--it's not personal. It's not worth your time to get emotional over customers. I'd be momentarily irked at IG for wasting a few minutes of my time, but since I don't get emotional over customers-- I will take his money with no complaints the next time he wants to spend it. Why get mad? He's not some bf that betrayed you, he's a customer.

doc-catfish
03-15-2004, 04:39 PM
I'll only keep a regular who weighs positively on the hassle factor, because otherwise it's not worth it.


This seems to be the mirror of the "Cutting Off A Dancer" thread. Let me rephrase what I said there...


If a dancer is clearly giving you subpar performance, then let her laziness and sense of entitlement be her albatross. There are other fish in the sea.


...and edit it a bit to be more fitting.

If a dancer customer is clearly giving you subpar performance being a pain in the ass, then let her lazinesshis selfishness and sense of entitlement be her his albatross. There are other fish in the sea.

Yep, I think that still applies.

Just as a customer should rightfully cut off a dancer who takes his business for granted, so should a dancer whose regular has lost perspective of things. I wouldn't blame you a bit for cutting them loose. At the very least, you should have a talk with these two the next time that you see them to clarify matters.


I also went to breakfast with him last Saturday, at his request (umm... "beg" would be a better term); he bought me a cup of coffee and played with my feet (I wore the stupid nylons) while we chatted. I should note that he did not pay for this, AND that he had been given two songs free earlier that same night in the club because I simply couldn't get to him.

This might have been your one mistake. Not that I am officially against a dancer doing a seemingly innocent thing like going to breakfast with a customer, but when the guy has a few screws loose upstairs (and its hard to tell sometimes), things like that can lead him to think your gesture was more than it actually was. I'm not saying don't do this in the future, but if you sense that a customer is predatorily abusing your time, its time to call time out and get things straightened out and remind, its simply BUSINESS.
If you lose one now and then, no biggie. Better to set them free before they magnify their stupidity and get resentful of you for "leading them on".

fishnet
03-15-2004, 05:08 PM
Hankering after others makes you lose appeal.


All I can say is every case is different Malibu. I expect to be catered to and spend enough to make it worthwhile for the dancer to do so. ;) If I were made to wait while she danced for others after setting things up in advance, she'd never earn another dime from me. But then Chuck didn't annoint me with EGPMFI status for nothing. LOL. (Exalted Grand Poobah Member of the Fuckoe Institute ;D)

Malibu
03-16-2004, 05:13 AM
You're right Fishnet. I think my statement came across a little too generalised.

I meant to express this (in so few words): Sure, it is great and not to mention a large part of the job to make a customer feel like a special kinda guy, but I mean to obviously hang onto them will give them a funny taste in their mouth in the end, right? It can make you look like a cling-on and that sucks. Let's face it, a dancer wants to keep the lads on their toes (well at least I do), that's where the whole ''play'' comes into place. I don't diss the clientele, I just like to tease. I am not ''theirs''.

Hope this makes sense.