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Bambi,RQE
11-03-2004, 06:19 PM
Hi there.

I was in NYC for 9/11. It was horrible. Bush was no help at all, thank goodness for Guillianni. But anyway...

It is not that Bush caused the terrorist attacks, it is that he ignored the warnings because it was a "Clinton" agenda. He let his personal politics get in the way of the safety of our country. Also, as far as keeping us safe goes, I don't think pissing off the rest of the world by violating the Geneva Conventions and other international laws and treaties that the US has signed is the way to keep this country safe. We make peace (and hence ensure our safety) by repairing relationships and helping other countries out of poverty, not by invading them.

Also, what about the debt he is running up? Or his Christian crusade? I don't care if he is a Christian but I don't want him pandering to the religous right, which is what he has been doing.

Casual Observer
11-03-2004, 06:35 PM
Yes, this is definitely cause for a celebratory mood:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...wh/debt_ceiling

Who do you think is going to pay for all of this?

Sadly, GWB never saw a spending bill cross his desk that he didn't sign.

He really, really needs to learn how to use the friggin' veto pen.

As for the GWB-9/11 tin-foil conspiracies and accusations, they're so tired and thoroughly debunked they're not worth dignifying with a response.

Lexi
11-03-2004, 06:47 PM
I'm still surprised that a state (OH) that considered unemployment to be one of its biggest concerns, voted so heavily for Bush.
I was thinking the same exact thing. :thinking:

FBR
11-03-2004, 06:49 PM
The business/jobs decline in Ohio started in early 2000 at the tail end of Clintons term. A lot of us business owners saw it coming but there wasnt much we could do about it other than hunker down and try to ride it out. It hasnt been easy, especially for those of us whos livelihood is directly tied to the manufacturing sector of the economy. It's tempting to blame it on GWB since he inherited the mess but the real fault lies with consumers who see no connection between buying cheap products made overseas and job losses here in the US.

FBR

Casual Observer
11-03-2004, 07:14 PM
^ Exactly FBR. Your description of events mimics my own experience.

We thought we could ride out the storm that started for us in January of 2000. Was not to be. We folded.

Business cycles in macroeconomic trends and globalization are real; but people need someone to blame, and so the executive branch gets the blame--or credit.

MisfitBunnie
11-03-2004, 07:19 PM
That is a pretty harsh statement. I doubt that anyone can actually prove that. So Bush is in office and the terrorists just went off to kill the thousands on 9/11? Why didnt they personally go after HIM? They ARE smart enough...
It's just my opinion. The middle east didn't like Bush's father because he fucked with them so much and they weren't happy that Jr. got elected to take his fathers place. They knew it was only a matter of time before Bush fucked with them, instead they fucked with us first.

According to many people who worked under the Bush Administration, there were plans to go into Iraq way before Sept 11th even happened. 9/11 just gave them the excuse to go there even though they didn't really have an excuse because the people that were responsible for 9/11 were in Afganistan and not in Iraq.

montythegeek
11-03-2004, 08:05 PM
Holy cow folks, it is just an election. If you live to 80 the odds are your will be of voting age for 15 of these presidential elections. The odds favor that your candidate will lose 50% of the time.

Grow up and face reality!

threlayer
11-03-2004, 08:13 PM
After the Iraqi elections, lets bomb the hell out of Iran and North Korea and anyone else that complains about that!

Gabe
11-03-2004, 08:20 PM
After the Iraqi elections, lets bomb the hell out of Iran and North Korea and anyone else that complains about that!

Yea, when we nuking Iran?

azamber
11-03-2004, 08:26 PM
*sigh*

So much for peace, love, and unity...

Chani_Fremen
11-03-2004, 08:27 PM
Yeah, That's the way to spread democracy. "Oh, you don't like democracy, we'll kill ya."

Yeah, It totally worked in Vietnam.

MisfitBunnie
11-03-2004, 08:34 PM
"We're pro-life and we'll kill your ass!"- Bill Hicks

threlayer
11-03-2004, 08:43 PM
They forgot to mention that "pro-life" tapers off shortly after birth and ends at 18 years. Also it applies only to those living in a democracy.

Gabe
11-03-2004, 09:08 PM
Yeah, That's the way to spread democracy. "Oh, you don't like democracy, we'll kill ya."

Now your getting it!

Lexi
11-03-2004, 09:12 PM
Hi there.
We make peace (and hence ensure our safety) by repairing relationships and helping other countries out of poverty, not by invading them.

Also, what about the debt he is running up? Or his Christian crusade? I don't care if he is a Christian but I don't want him pandering to the religous right, which is what he has been doing.
So you say we should repair relationships....help other countries out of poverty, but then you say he is running up the debt. How can we do one without the other? Surely by repairing other countries costs $$$...


I am not even a huge Bush supporter. I'm merely saying that not everything that has happened is HIS fault. There were things from before his election that were stirring...

Lexi
11-03-2004, 09:15 PM
It's just my opinion. The middle east didn't like Bush's father because he fucked with them so much and they weren't happy that Jr. got elected to take his fathers place. They knew it was only a matter of time before Bush fucked with them, instead they fucked with us first.

According to many people who worked under the Bush Administration, there were plans to go into Iraq way before Sept 11th even happened. 9/11 just gave them the excuse to go there even though they didn't really have an excuse because the people that were responsible for 9/11 were in Afganistan and not in Iraq.

I hear ya....I have heard the same things. However, do you really think that the terrorists really only wanted to get back at us because Bush Jr was in office? I think theres more to the story. As tempting as it may sound to totally blame Bush, theres gotta be something else...

azamber
11-03-2004, 09:15 PM
Now your getting it!

Sounds like the terrorists way of thinking to me! And come to think I respected your decision to go to war. Hah! Hopefully, you're being just a little sarcastic....

Gabe
11-03-2004, 09:19 PM
You kidding me? I'm sure we can sit down and sip some tea with osama and discuss this. I'm sure we will listen. Pfffft.

azamber
11-03-2004, 09:26 PM
Neither side is willing to discuss the issue or negotiate a compromise. Neither side feels the other is worth the effort. Both sides feel the answer is to kill off as much of the enemy as possible. Who the fuck wins in this scenario???? Can't fight hatred, death, and ignorance, with more of the same.

Gabe
11-03-2004, 09:28 PM
Neither side is willing to discuss the issue or negotiate a compromise. Neither side feels the other is worth the effort. Both sides feel the answer is to kill off as much of the enemy as possible. Who the fuck wins in this scenario???? Can't fight hatred, death, and ignorance, with more of the same.

And guess what? THATS LIFE. This isn't Hippyville.

Eye for an Eye.

azamber
11-03-2004, 09:30 PM
Well then go on perpetuating the madness...

I believe in karma too!

Tigerlilly
11-03-2004, 09:59 PM
And guess what? THATS LIFE. This isn't Hippyville.

Eye for an Eye.
As Gandhi once said An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind


Sounds like the terrorists way of thinking to me! And come to think I respected your decision to go to war. Hah! Hopefully, you're being just a little sarcastic....
It is exactly the same as a terrorist mindset - I too hope he was actually kidding-- we have already had one person here who called for the death of those who did not agree with them, we don't need another.

ami
11-03-2004, 10:05 PM
2007

Jay Zeno
11-03-2004, 10:06 PM
And guess what? THATS LIFE. This isn't Hippyville.

Eye for an Eye. Nor is it Genocide City.

The full quote is, more or less: “Ye have heard that it hath been said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth'; but I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”



we have already had one person here who called for the death of those who did not agree with them,
Two that I've noticed. One was conservative, and the other was liberal.

azamber
11-03-2004, 10:12 PM
I really don't understand the appeal of "an eye for an eye" mentality. What drives one to think this way? Fear? Vengeance? Anger? Victory? Justice even?

If given the choice between approaching humanity with compassion vs. hostility, why would one choose the latter, given it's dire consequences? Compassion for some may come easily, and yet at times, effort must be made to be compassionate, but the obvious benefits far outweigh the feeling of vindication received from "eye for an eye".

Tigerlilly
11-03-2004, 10:23 PM
Two that I've noticed. One was conservative, and the other was liberal.
Most of us know which Repub , but which liberal poster said that people who didnt agree with him/her should die ? How did I miss that one ?

Jay Zeno
11-03-2004, 10:25 PM
I'm trying to remember my biblical history. According to Old and New Testament, I think the original "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life" rules were in Exodus or Deuteronomy, and it had to do with punishing wrongdoers. I think. There's a similar sentiment in the Quran. Then in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus tossed that out and promoted the "turn the other cheek" philosophy.

That's how I remember it, anyway. I guess it depends if one want to follow old Judaic law, Islam law, or the refined Christian ethic. (or none of that, and just quote what suits you)

azamber
11-03-2004, 10:36 PM
Hmm, resistance to new ideas, sounds familiar. =)

To quote chani's sig from Dune, "Fear is the mindkiller." What rational, thinking person would choose to worship a god that promotes an eye for an eye? (Don't answer, it's a whole other can of worms, I know) But one who feared the consequences otherwise?

(little nervous posting this one, don't hurt me too bad) Just think about it at least.

Jay Zeno
11-03-2004, 10:42 PM
What rational, thinking person would choose to worship a god that promotes an eye for an eye? (Don't answer, it's a whole other can of worms, I know)
Oh, I must, I must.

There is a certain line of thought that says, "Man makes God in Man's image."

Whether Exodus and Deuteronomy were inspired by God to be written, or whether the writers were putting down what appealed to them at the time - and it was a brutal time - is rather dependent on the observer's beliefs.

Tigerlilly
11-03-2004, 10:43 PM
According to many people who worked under the Bush Administration, there were plans to go into Iraq way before Sept 11th even happened. 9/11 just gave them the excuse to go there even though they didn't really have an excuse because the people that were responsible for 9/11 were in Afganistan and not in Iraq.I posted about this and got much slack over it by the board conservatives ::)

This whole "War on Terror" and especialy the Iraqi invation was all preplanned by the PNAC think tank and implemented when GW got in office.

azamber
11-03-2004, 10:49 PM
Oh, I must, I must.

There is a certain line of thought that says, "Man makes God in Man's image."

Whether Exodus and Deuteronomy were inspired by God to be written, or whether the writers were putting down what appealed to them at the time - and it was a brutal time - is rather dependent on the observer's beliefs.

I like that one, I have heard it before.

Hmm, good food for thought.

Adina
11-03-2004, 10:57 PM
Now your getting it!Gabe, with all your jingoistic, mispelled and inarticulate defenses of warmongering, I have to wonder - why haven't you enlisted in the military? Are you all talk and no action?

azamber
11-03-2004, 10:58 PM
*sigh*

He already has. Guess it's best to keep the military full of those who want to kill, rather than "volunteer" those of us who do not.

Crystal_eyes
11-03-2004, 11:35 PM
I'm canadian but I just wanted to let you all know how stunned we were that Bush won again can't you guys see he's a moron ! Maybe our prime minister is not the brightest but at least he doesn't start wars and make all these problems we mind our own buisness and I think that's general in this country ! I'm glad to be canadian (not to think we are better only that we are a peacefull country and I prefer that) ! Anyway good luck and I hope nothing bad is gonna happen in the states ! :meditate: :peace:

madgrad
11-04-2004, 12:04 AM
*sigh*

He already has. Guess it's best to keep the military full of those who want to kill, rather than "volunteer" those of us who do not.

Amber, I take severe objection to that statement, I consider it highly offensive and ingorant to those of us who have served in the military, and those who are still serving.

Here's some news for you Amber-- The people that hate war the most are the ones who have to fight it.

Most people who goe into the military do so for a variety of reasons: patrotism, adventure, job oppurtunities, sense of duty, college benefits, structure, machasimo, etc.

As for my personal reason for joing the Army it was a moral one. I couldn't think of sending someone's kid off to war in the future, unless I put myself in their place first.

The people who goe in/try to go in to the military "that want to kill" are weeded out very quickly (usually at the induction center or shortly after arriving at their first unit) as they are considered very dangerous unstable personality types by psychiatrists, and proven dangers to others, and unit cohesion. These types of personalities cannot deal with military life successfully, and weed themselves out very early in their first months of service, if they made it past induction center Psychiatrist.

As for my position on Iraq, it made no sense whatever and is absolutely ludicrous decision and a shameful waste of life both American and Iraqi.

azamber
11-04-2004, 12:27 AM
My most sincere apologies for offending you with my poor choice of words. And yes, I am completely ignorant of war, and part of me chooses to stay that way, the other part just wishes to understand why it is an option. I will hopefully never understand the hatred of war by one who has experienced it firsthand. Maybe I should have said, "...with those that are willing to kill". You must be willing to be in the military, correct? I wouldn't sign up specifically because I am unwilling to ever take another human life, unless I was defending myself, and I choose to avoid situations where I may be fighting for my life, if I can help it.

I am not anti-military, as a nation, we must protect ourselves, and someone needs to be willing to do it. I give credit (and deep respect) to those who do, those who feel it's their duty, obligation, passion, whatever the reason. But at the same time, I just don't think there should be war, and people shouldn't have to put themselves in that position. I don't know how many times I have choked back tears, knowing I was dancing for an Iraqi vet. They're all usually younger than me too, and that sucks, cuz I'm still pretty young! I can't imagine an 18 year old boy fighting in a war and seeing the horrors he must face, having only signed up to help pay for college. That breaks my heart.

Hopefully my explanation is less offensive.

edited to add: Apparantly the military isn't that good at weeding out those who want to kill, given that the person I was referring to is in the military. Also, I know for a fact a lot of the people who enlisted after 9/11 had revenge on their minds and the attitude of "Kill 'em all"

Djoser
11-04-2004, 01:31 AM
The people who goe in/try to go in to the military "that want to kill" are weeded out very quickly (usually at the induction center or shortly after arriving at their first unit) as they are considered very dangerous unstable personality types by psychiatrists, and proven dangers to others, and unit cohesion. These types of personalities cannot deal with military life successfully, and weed themselves out very early in their first months of service, if they made it past induction center Psychiatrist.

As for my position on Iraq, it made no sense whatever and is absolutely ludicrous decision and a shameful waste of life both American and Iraqi.

Those people aren't always weeded out. In World War II training camps, recruits and draftees were indoctrinated with a thorough hatred of the enemy. This may have been necessary to win the war, but it means that the kind of mentality being exhibited in such unrestrained fashion as we see here, will not necessarily be turned away.

A good friend of mine in Daytona served with the First Marine Division on Guadalcanal, and was dumbstruck by the rapid about face on the official attitude towards Japanese after peace was signed. He was pissed off that he had been indoctrinated to hate and relish killing Japanese, and that suddenly he was supposed to forget all that. He has since become a Christian (though he never tried to tell me that stripclubs are evil, unlike John Ashecroft), and is opposed to hatred of other cultures being exploited for political gain.

Like you, he is entirely opposed to the decision to invade Iraq, having come to the conclusion that wars are started by politicians for their own gain.

I think his position is a bit extreme, though there is little doubt that the present war with Iraq, which is causing the unsuccessful prolongation of the much-vaunted War on Terrorism (which we had almost won in Afghanistan), was indeed started by politicians for their own gain.

Here is a man who experienced combat in as brutal a milieu as any this century has seen, as anyone who knows about Bloody Ridge can tell you. He knows what war is really like--unlike our President, for all his macho posturing--and believes there should be a better reason than the one we have been handed...

stant
11-04-2004, 02:04 AM
Yea, when we nuking Iran?


Did you know "grow a penis" is an anagram of "Spiro Agnew"?

azamber
11-04-2004, 02:09 AM
LOL It sure is, isn't it?

madgrad
11-04-2004, 03:27 AM
That's because DJ there is a difference between people going in "wanting to kill" and soldiers being indoctornated "to kill"

The basic human moral that we have grown up with is "Thou Shalt Not Kill"; we have been ingrained with that since birth. The one purpose of military training [there are other purposes as well] is to make breaking this covenent and dehumanizing your enemy much easier. So the soldier can be able to kill in battle as needed, a controlled aggression.

People going in the military sincerely and enthusiastically "wanting to kill" are different story, as if they are not ingrained with this covenent (Thou Shalt Not Kill) often means they lack the personality trait's needed to interact with others in a normal manner (i.e. severe borderline personalitys, and dangerous narcisstic sociopath's usually anti- social as well) the military want's people able to interact as a team, and able to follow orders, in otherwords people able to be controlled. People that sincerely and enthusiastically "want to kill" do not have those abilities, and are not able to be controlled--which makes them dangerous to other soldiers around them, and the chain of command, that is why they are weeded out early or eventually weed themselves out.

When you hear of 18 year olds going in the military, or coming out of military training "wanting to kill" They really are trying to say that they "want to right the wrong inflicted on our country by OBL and want to defend their friends and niehbors from future harm by him " or when they come out of military training "it's more like a desire to do the job they were trained for that involves killing" but lack the maturity to express it as that way. It's also a macho thing. The last thing an 18 year-old want's is to appear as weak in front of his peers, especially if your a soldier. So hence "wanting to kill".

As far as your friends story, it was a reflection of American racism for that time period in history, and the Japanese Soldiers were also indoctrinated with the same fanatical hatred of us as well. Your friend's reaction was completely normal and most troops felt the same way including the ones who fought the Germans as well.

About war and politics:

"War is the continuation of Politics by other means" (Karl Von Clausewitz)- Prussian General 1780-1831

"Politics is war without bloodshed, while war is politics with bloodshed" (Mao Tse Tung)- Chinese Leader 1893-1976

Djoser
11-04-2004, 03:41 AM
...but lack the maturity to express it as that way. It's also a macho thing. The last thing an 18 year-old want's is to appear as weak in front of his peers, especially if your a soldier.


I think a lack of maturity is common amongst guys who 'say' they are eager to go kill "towelheads", and aren't particular as to whether they really had a tangible connection with 9/11 or not.

Wait a minute, that sounds like somebody who was just elected...

Great post, Madgrad!!

Thucydides is another great writer, concerning war and politics, and especially the role of the demagogue in both.

I am still skeptical of the efficacy of the military's weeding-out process, in spite of your wise words--but damn, keep posting!

Gabe
11-04-2004, 06:01 AM
As Gandhi once said An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind

And GOD said eye for an eye. Now who do you think I'm gonna side with?


Gabe, with all your jingoistic, mispelled and inarticulate defenses of warmongering, I have to wonder - why haven't you enlisted in the military? Are you all talk and no action?

I love how you insisted that I wasn't in any military service. Guess what baby? I joined the Army Reserves at the end of my Junior year of H.S. End of my Senior year I immediately went to active duty where I spent 8 months at Fort Dix. Was sent home. I could be activated any single day.


He already has. Guess it's best to keep the military full of those who want to kill, rather than "volunteer" those of us who do not.

Difference between wanting and then willing. I'm willing to defend America against terrorism over seas, rather then in our back yards.


Did you know "grow a penis" is an anagram of "Spiro Agnew"?

Did you know Ron Jeremey used to say "Suck my dick" a lot?

And on a final note. Thanks for being unsupportive of our armed forces. Who cares if you think they are there to kill or not, but when the shit hits the fan, the men and women will be there to die for our country like thousands before us already have.

Casual Observer
11-04-2004, 07:07 AM
Gabe, do you work at needlessly antagonizing folks out of sheer ignorance and false bravado or does it just come naturally?


Like you, he is entirely opposed to the decision to invade Iraq, having come to the conclusion that wars are started by politicians for their own gain.

It's not on thread topic, but it bears saying that Clausewitz famously said, "War is the continuation of politics with other means." He was right then, and still is.

For those interested in what actually causes war (and thus, what causes peace) I would recommend Causes of War, by Geoffrey Blainey. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0029035910/qid=1099576847/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-2821426-2492111?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

It's a statistical historical analysis of all the wars of the last 350 years which summarizes the conditions and circumstances that lead to war and peace in a theoretical and practical environment. Very digestible, eminently empirical, and definitely enlightening.

Like I said in the other thread, it's not that war is not the answer--war is the question, and sometimes the answer is yes.

A_Guy
11-04-2004, 07:19 AM
And GOD said eye for an eye. Now who do you think I'm gonna side with?Did he/she/it say that to you directly, or were you told that through someone else? To quote madgrad (excellent post btw), The basic human moral that we have grown up with is "Thou Shalt Not Kill"... which of your covenants have veto power over the other?


Thanks for being unsupportive of our armed forces.Common scare tactic - if you don't support the war, you don't support the troops ::) ... doesn't work with me. I haven't, and will continue not to support the war, but I sure as hell will support my brother-in-law and my friends currently in Iraq.


Gabe, do you work at needlessly antagonizing folks out of sheer ignorance and false bravado or does it just come naturally? :rotfl: ... I was going to say something similar, but you always word it better than me :P

hardkandee
11-04-2004, 09:23 AM
And GOD said eye for an eye. Now who do you think I'm gonna side with?

The origin of the "eye for an eye" thing comes from the Code of Hammurabi (Mesopotamia), which predates and more than likely influenced the writing of the Bible.

The original passage was:
If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out.

Historians dispute about the way this was carried out however. Many of them believe (due to financial/tax records) that the accuser was PAID the amount due in damages for his eye. It is not believed people went around poking each other in the eye.

NinaDaisy
11-04-2004, 09:27 AM
<edited out> ...that'll probably be deleted, but I couldn't help it. <if you know it's going to be deleted, you can help it.>

<I said probably, see I was right!>

I can't believe not a single person has yet mentioned the fact that head SCOTUS Justice Rhendquist (sp?) is about to kick it and that Bush will likely pack the courts with conservative judges that will overturn a lot of the social progress this country has made over the better part of the last half-century.

A large portion of Americans apparently do not want separation of church and state. They voted for Bush out of three things primarily: fear, hatred/bigotry and greed. I mean, 22% of Bush voters polled at exit polls said their biggest reason for voting Bush was because he's against gay marriage. And then Bush and Cheney take the stage to declare victorywith their families, along with Cheney's OPENLY LESBIAN DAUGHTER?!?!?! WTF is wrong with these people?

DICK CHENEY: Sorry baby, if daddy wants to keep getting all those big Halliburton contracts for another 4 years, this country can't recognize your basic human rights...

MARY CHENEY: Um, okay dad. Can I still keep my cushy job at Coors, Inc.?

I'm not saying this country will turn into a fascist dictatorship over the next four years, but we will almost certainly have a lot more debt, unemployment, and war to look forward to. Not to mention the Jesus freaks dictating policy. You know, as in the 40% of people who believe in creationism?

Gabe, you don't need to wait to be called up to go fight. If you're so eager to defend our nation, you could be on a plane to Iraq by the end of next week. You know that, right? And what the hell has GWB ever done for you Gabe? You live with your parents, so I'm sure it wasn't your big tax cut. Maybe just helping sad, lonely disenfranchised, emasculated men out there feel a bigger sense of bravado with all his tough talk about smoking them out of their holes and whatnot?

I hate this war, but support the troops BY WANTING THEM TO COME HOME IN ONE PIECE! Saying that hating this war and our troops are one in the same is an ignorant, obtuse statement in the extreme.

The Northeast and West Coast need to secede from the cowfucking red states, I guess. :O Like Emily wrote, it really does seem like we're living in two different countries.

Maybe he'll finally catch Osama in the next 4 years...although Al Qaeda is like a hydra. Catching Bin Laden will make GWB's approval rating skyrocket, but there will still be many active cells.

A_Guy
11-04-2004, 11:20 AM
I can't believe not a single person has yet mentioned the fact that head SCOTUS Justice Rhendquist.....etc. etc.Well said Nina.. *muah*


The Northeast and West Coast need to secede from the cowfucking red states, I guess. :O Like Emily wrote, it really does seem like we're living in two different countries.my sentiments exactly. This was the first thing I thought of as I watched the southern and midwestern states falling one by one to Bush... moral values... phoey... I wouldn't mind taking my "immoral" ass to a state/country where gay & women rights are supported (yes, I know, I'm not a woman or gay, but apparently I AM immoral ::) ), religon is truly separate from the state, and military power isn't wielded just for the sake of wielding.




.... oh yeah, and strip clubs on every corner :P

azamber
11-04-2004, 12:02 PM
A Blue City (Disconsolate, Even) Bewildered by a Red America
By Joseph Berger
The New York Times

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110504Y.shtml

"Editor's Note | A centerpiece of the Bush campaign was their claim that Bush was the best man to keep America safe from another terrorist attack. It is worthwhile to note, therefore, the reaction of the city of New York to the election results on Tuesday. This great city, which absorbed the horrific blow of 9/11, did not think Bush was the right man for the job. - wrp"

A_Guy
11-04-2004, 12:38 PM
This great city, which absorbed the horrific blow of 9/11, did not think Bush was the right man for the job. - wrp
very good point...

And the voting breakdown for New York City's counties:

Bronx - 82% Kerry, 17% Bush
Kings (Brooklyn) - 74% Kerry, 25% Bush
New York (Manhattan) - 82% Kerry, 17% Bush
Queens - 71% Kerry, 28% Bush
Richmond (Staten Island) - 57% Bush, 42% Kerry

Overall, between all 5 counties, there were 1,653,767 votes for Kerry and 547,359 votes for Bush - meaning 75% for Kerry and about 25% for Bush

VenusGoddess
11-04-2004, 01:29 PM
I'm just waiting to hear about all of the "election investigations" that are going on.

I am not happy that Bush is in office...however, it's something that I'm going to have to deal with. With his bad handle on fiscal responsibilities, it will mean that our country will keep going in the way it's going (down the drain). The only thing that I am happy and sad about is that I'm going to make a ton of money off the people who have big debt and are going to refi their homes to pay them off in order to survive under Bush's economic plans. Happy to make a ton of money, sad in the way it'll be done; but, eh, it'll probably be money off the people who voted for Bush, so I won't feel as bad, then. LOL

In all honesty...I wasn't THRILLED about Kerry. I think he was the lesser of the two evils (and that's not entirely good). But, I have a very hard time supporting a president who out-right lies to his countrymen. I have a problem with a president who has no clue what the $ means and how to spend it (silver spoon syndrome) and I have a problem with a man who cannot express himself coherently in an impromtu way. I have a problem with a man who cannot make a distinction between his beliefs and those of other people; who will do anything he can to "make everyone the same". I have a problem with a president who spends more time on vacation than he does at work.

Would Kerry be any better? Eh, who knows...but, at this point, I think it would have been better to get Bush out of office. And, to those who say that the "people" have spoken about Bush's re-election...they have and it was not favorable. If it was a landslide re-elect, THEN the people would have spoken...however, it was an election by the skin of his teeth...which means that there are many people who don't agree with nor like his politics; almost as many as who do. That's not very re-assuring. JMHO, though.