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Wwanderer
11-08-2004, 03:09 PM
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/

Some of the maps on this site give a much clearer impression of how nearly evenly divided the country is than those they showed all election night (and the next day) on TV and in the papers, etc.

-Ww

Casual Observer
11-08-2004, 03:12 PM
That's very interesting.

Blade
11-08-2004, 03:38 PM
I like this map which shows how screwy the exit polls were

Casual Observer
11-08-2004, 03:52 PM
^ Amen, Blade.

Exit polls were fucked this election and last (albeit to a lesser extent).

RedZ28
11-08-2004, 08:38 PM
Exit polls were totally skewed big time. Apparently it was some form of questionnaire that respondents had to take. Most of which where young or women, which explains why people thought Kerry was going to win in the beginning.

Melonie
11-08-2004, 10:31 PM
It's actually much deeper than this ... Check out

These election stats clearly show that the only areas of NY where Kerry had an overwhelming majority were NYC proper i.e. Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens (Staten Island went for Bush !). Other areas where Kerry had a smaller majority coincide with upstate large cities like Albany, Syracuse and Buffalo, as well as Long Island.

The conclusion is that the Democrats carried majorities in areas where there are a lot of very rich people, and also a lot of welfare/medicaid recipients, while the Republicans carried majorites in areas where middle class people live.

Alanna
11-09-2004, 01:59 AM
It isn't the exit polls. That's the story the GOP wants us to believe and they've been pushing that story BEFORE the election. The truth is that the only elections where the exit polls are so far off the mark are this ones that got Bush in office and while he was there. Historically, exit polls have never choked like this including other countries until Bush came along.

Take a look at the data. The ONLY exit poll "screwyness" is in those precincts across the nation that used e-voting, particularly the Opti-Scan vote tallying machines. In EVERY precinct that used those things there is at LEAST a 5% swing to Bush and NONE to Kerry, and the ONLY states where these "screwy" exit polls show up is in those states considered "swing" states. ALL the rest of the exit polls are right on the money.

It isn't "screwy" exit polls, it's pretty clear evidence of vote fraud.

There are now 6 Reps formally identifying valid suspicion of vote fraud in this election - Conyers, Nadler and Wexler were the original 3, Rush Holt of NJ joined later along with two others whose names excape me at the moment:

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/gaoinvestvote2004ltr11504.pdf

Here is just ONE sample of e-vote nuttyness: There are 97,489 more votes already counted in JUST Cuyuga County, Ohio than there are registered voters! There's even more in other Ohio counties. These are not totals with provisional ballots included... Ohio by law cannot add provisional ballots to their count until 11 days after the election. WHERE did all these extra votes come from???

Face it, folks... until the people can take back the control of how we vote and how those votes are counted, there will NEVER be another ligitimate election in this country again. He who gets elected is he who can hack the vote... and he who commits vote fraud is he who needs to be dragged out of the White House and thrown in prison where he belongs.

Katrine
11-09-2004, 02:04 AM
Sweeeeeet, Kerry won in my county, which is the capital of so-conservative Texas!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/PresidentialByCounty.aspx?oi=P&rti=G&sp=TX&tf=l

Hook 'Em!

aggieed
11-09-2004, 02:46 AM
Actually Travis County in Texas is the "Bubble" that does not normally go the same way Texas goes so no surprise there...anybody whose lived here long enough knows that.

What really surprises me is Bell County, home to Killeen and Ft. Hood. Bush had twice as many votes there as Kerry. I've had people I know swearing up and down that people in that community would never vote for Bush again. How odd.

montythegeek
11-09-2004, 06:18 AM
Alanna,
It is Cuyahoga and voted for Kerry in a greater proportion than the state of Mass did.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/OH/P/00/county.000.html

Casual Observer
11-09-2004, 06:40 AM
MTG, stop injecting fact into the debate.

It's incredibly distracting to the tin-foil crowd.

Alanna
11-09-2004, 09:26 AM
Alanna, It is Cuyahoga and voted for Kerry in a greater proportion than the state of Mass did.

So? Is there some kind of point you're trying to make with that statement? Does my misspelling of the county name and the fact that it went to Kerry somehow override the fact that THERE'S STILL OVER 90,000 MORE VOTES IN THAT COUNTY ALONE THAN THERE ARE REGISTERED VOTERS???? I didn't think so. Have a nice day.

MTG, stop injecting fact into the debate. It's incredibly distracting to the tin-foil crowd.

Fact? Who gives a crap about irrelevant facts? He may as well have said he was wearing boxers as opposed to briefs.... may be a fact but it obviously isn't relevant.

How's this for tin-foil:

According to a statistical analysis of exit polling conducted by former Associate Professor of Mathematics at MIT, David Anick, the odds of Bush making an average gain of 4.15 percent among all 16 states included in the media's 4 p.m. exit polling is 1 in 50,000.

That should make you feel all warm and fuzzy about "screwy" exit polls and encourage you to point and laugh at those Reynolds Wrap cap wearing nutty professors at MIT.

Wow! 1 in 50,000! What a lucky guy that Mr. Bush is! Hot damn, I should have him buy my next lottery ticket!

Have you looked at the data? I didn't think so. Sure seems like you don't give a shit if there was cheating as long as your guy won.

I happen to like living in a democracy, so I have a REALLY BIG problem with election fraud REGARDLESS of who it is doing the defrauding. The black box voting issue is NON-PARTISAN... Democrats know how to hack too, ya know... so do Greens, Libertarians and *gasp* Commies. Do you really want to stick with these corrupt voting machines knowing that the next election could end up being hacked by ANY party? Do you like the fact that your democracy is in the future going to depend upon which party has the better hackers? It doesn't bother you that a Green party affiliate demonstrated on national TV that she could hack into the central tabulator, flip a sample election and erase all trace of doing it in less than 90 seconds? If this doesn't make you go green around the gills, then you aren't acknowledging your own Reynolds Wrap cap.

How does this make you feel: I'm a screaming tree-hugging activist liberal Democrat. I also have the GEMS program installed on my computer at home and know how it works. I know all about how to hack an election, I can do it in UNDER 60 seconds AND I know how easy it is to get the modem number of the central tabulator from county admins (they've already happily given that info out in Freedom of Information Act requests). There are thousands of others just like me with this same information and skill. Any time I want, I can hack any election I want IF I was inclined to do so, and so could those other thousands of people who may or may not be inclined to do so.

How's that tin-foil hat feel?

Incidently, there is no debate when one side gives actual information and relevant facts and the other just blathers "blah blah... tinfoil... blah blah". This is one of the reasons that it's so difficult to debate fools and the blind faith crowd.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have an election audit to help organize.

Oh.... have a nice day.

montythegeek
11-09-2004, 06:27 PM
Alanna,
Cuyahoga county is Cleveland--the Democratic stronghold in Ohio.
George Bush got 220,000 votes in Cleveland or less than 1 in 3. 90,000 votes would be almost half of his votes in the county. they are not all Democrats though. George Voinovich, the former Mayor of Clevland for 10 years won the county with 52% of the votes against another Cleveland resident, Mr Fingerhut.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/OH/S/01/county.000.html#39035
It is far easier to believe that George Bush got two thirds of the votes Voiny got than it is to believe Bush got less than a third of the votes he got. If anything the numbers suggest a massive Kerry fraud.

Sorry for presenting more anti-tinfoil facts. Have a good night and a pleasant tomorrow. Can you hold your breathe for 1,532 days?