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View Full Version : How will society reflect the next four years?



madmaxine
11-10-2004, 02:08 PM
In a recent conversation, a friend pointed out that "people like us" have a lot to worry about now. I am not sure if I agree. My recollections of the late Eighties to early Nineties (I was pretty young though LOL) were that even though there were Republican presidents, popular culture was very "trashy, immoral" and disposable. Sure, you had the law going in restrictive directions in terms of drug use, women's rights and the strength of Christianity in the US, but there was also a lot of rebelliousness....like the counterculture asserting itself.
I do plan on being more active with my politics, but I'm not panicking just yet. I just found it surprsing that in the past, Repubs seem to been a lot of bark and little bite....odd......
EDIT: when my friend said "people like us," he meant him and I, not my work field.

Deogol
11-10-2004, 05:05 PM
They had little bark and no bite because it was assumed that bible thumpin voters were in the minority and could not get a person elected.

Obviously that has changed with the defeat of Kerry, the defeat of some gay agendas, and the loss of seats in the congress.

I suspect it has always been that way, and that the media has put forth the illusion that the things it appreciates are the same things that the majority (or at least the voting majority) of people appreciate. With the rise of AM talk radio and probably the internet (I am in a ring of bible thumpers emails by my brothers marriage) - they are starting to realize that they are not so "out of main stream" as they once thought.

Melonie
11-11-2004, 03:59 AM
in specific reference to exotic dancers and strip clubs over the next four years, I would guess that in most areas conservative hypocracy should actually lead to an improvement in earnings potential. Any suburban clubs in conservative areas that wind up being hurt would probably have been assaulted no matter who won the election. But big city clubs should do very well, based on clubs in conservative cities like Atlanta, Dallas etc. Remember that just because politicians SAY one thing doesn't mean that they actually do it themselves ! Also, just because a conservative voter goes to church every sunday doesn't mean he won't drop a bundle in a strip club on thursday night. At least with pro-business republican policies it's pretty likely that more business guys will have a bundle in their pocket to spend !

GnBeret
11-11-2004, 05:30 AM
I just found it surprsing that in the past, Repubs seem to been a lot of bark and little bite....odd......
Ha ha ha... no, the fact of the matter is quite to the contrary - they've just managed to divert your attention (don't feel bad - you're definitely in the majority) with their bark re "hotbutton" issues like prayer in school, etc., but they've been biting the living hell out of much of interest to you all the while.

By the time Bush I left office, a full 75% of the Federal Judiciary had been appointed by him and Reagan - and they were smart about it, as their appointees were not only very conservative, but also quite young. And the results have probably exceeded even THEIR wildest dreams - for most of their appointees are still sitting, and because the courts change the law in small increments, the marked shift in areas like search and seizure, privacy, governmental authority investigate citizens, wiretaps, the standards of review applied in criminal appeals, and on and on and on has gone largely unnoticed by the public. But enough time has now elapsed, and enough incremental changes have now occurred that an examination of where we stood on all of these issues circa 1980 versus where we are now will surprise the hell out of you!

Along the way, they've also managed to pull off an incredible power grab in favor of the Executive Branch in several areas. For instance, between sentencing guidelines and DOJ reports on Judges who decide to deviate downward from same, they've effectively shifted the real power in criminal cases from the Judge to the U.S. Attorney (i.e., DOJ) - DOJ effectively controls sentencing by using its ability to undercharge to cut deals... by the time it gets to the Judge, the case has effectively been decided. This is not the system we set up originally and there are some very good reasons why we tried to keep the Executive Branch from amassing too much power - namely, it tends to lead to the kind of crap you're seeing now, with the Executive Branch seemingly operating more and more like a "free agent" answerable to no one.

I'll stop here, but the list goes on, and in many other areas - such as the use of the military; the shift towards more special ops units in the early 80's was done for a reason, the illegal war we got caught running in Nicaragua was initiated soon thereafter, and............?????? Use your imagination.}:D

Anyway, they've been viciously biting this whole time... you just haven't noticed because they've simultaneously mounted a frontal assault on the basis of the whole package of "Christian values" issues and fooled you into arguing with them about that while they went about making changes to some of the basics in the whole system.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad news.

Djoser
11-11-2004, 08:12 AM
in specific reference to exotic dancers and strip clubs over the next four years, I would guess that in most areas conservative hypocracy should actually lead to an improvement in earnings potential... Remember that just because politicians SAY one thing doesn't mean that they actually do it themselves ! Also, just because a conservative voter goes to church every sunday doesn't mean he won't drop a bundle in a strip club on thursday night. At least with pro-business republican policies it's pretty likely that more business guys will have a bundle in their pocket to spend !

As always you raise excellent points, but I would tend to disagree for three reasons.

1) Judging by the example of Orlando, where a brisk business in stripclubs has been laid low by Fundamentalist agitation, the illusion of safety from harassment is a dangerous thing for strippers to believe in.

2) A conservative churchgoer might demonstrate incredibly despicable levels of hypocracy by spending lots of money in stripclubs, but by lending his publicly vocal, moral, and electoral support to elected officials hell-bent on imposition of stringent moral values, he will do as much harm--if not more so--as good.

3) The high-level business types represent only a portion of strippers' income, on a national level. While the policies of this administration may benefit strippers in Atlanta or Houston, those in areas relying on the prosperity of the working class are already seeing a drop in earnings.

Bike Week 2004 was a disaster for the majority of dancers coming to Daytona for two reasons. The reduced number of bikers coming to the city due to serious efforts to 'clean up' such special events, in keeping with the new "family-oriented" image of Daytona, was partially to blame. But even in clubs such as Lollipops, which had standing-room only crowds of customers, the dancers just weren't making anywhere near what they had the year before. Bikers are predominantly working class, and while they had enough money to get down to Daytona, they couldn't afford to buy dances.

Katrine
11-12-2004, 05:50 AM
I think things are going to get worse if the economy doesn't improve. Girls are flooding the clubs because we are having trouble finding meaningful work elsewhere........

Strip clubs and sex being "demystified" is a result of our pop. culture. I doubt that anything is going to improve, but I predict it will stay somewhat steady unless there is a nationwide concerted campaign to crack down on strip clubs.....

Casual Observer
11-12-2004, 07:53 AM
I just found it surprsing that in the past, Repubs seem to been a lot of bark and little bite....odd......

My problem with Republicans is that they don't fulfill their campaign promises; my problem with Democrats is that they do.

:D

Melonie
11-12-2004, 10:39 AM
My problem with Republicans is that they don't fulfill their campaign promises; my problem with Democrats is that they do.

That certainly hits the proverbial nail on the head !


DJoser, rather than specifically addressing your points, just let me say that it's certainly going to be the case that strip clubs in some communities are going to take a licking from conservative groups, resulting in lower dancer earnings potential. However, it's just as likely that the earnings potential for girls who only want to dance is going to take a beating in very liberal areas as well.

I would offer up as examples strip clubs in Miami and San Francisco (probably two of the most liberal areas in the country), where practically zero law enforcement pressure exists in regard to clubs. As a result, for dancers in these two cities it is extremely difficult to earn big bucks unless they are willing to provide quite a bit more 'personal service' than simply dancing, which other dancers deliver, which customers expect, and for which there is essentially zero risk of being busted.

Personally, I'll take an upscale big city 'republican' show club where extras are truly not permitted and where customers do not expect to receive more than just a hot private dance.

Katrine
11-12-2004, 07:13 PM
But would you rather work in that Republican show club in a city where they send law enforcement to raid the clubs monthly, and you are likely to be thrown into jail for brushing against a knee, or shaking someone's hand?

You can be a successful dancer in San Fran and Miami without prostitution, although it is more challenging, and travelling would be a good option. You can't do anything in the conservative Christian run town that WANTS to arrest strippers so it looks good in the papers.... They CAN and WILL arrest girls in these towns for "hot" private dancing....

I'd rather be on the liberal city where the choice is mine.......

Tina
11-12-2004, 10:56 PM
Just because a city has a more open minded population doesn't mean that anything goes in strip clubs.

Austin is one of the few cities in Texas that Kerry won and by far is the most openly liberal city in Texas yet the clubs are not on the same level as in San Francisco. San Francisco makes up roughly 10% on the entire Bay Area's population and the other cities in the Bay Area with the exception of San Jose and Sunnyvale and one club in Redwood City have no strip clubs at all.

And a good ole boy city like Houston (which eventually will openly become more liberal due to it's high ethnic population once it shakes off the Bush cronies) is like Toy's R Us for men all over the country.

It all depends on a particular city's making a priority of traumatizing sexually oriented businesses or putting their legal focuses on more important areas.

There are a LOT of brainwashed people who voted for Bush and let us hope that some bad things surface during his second term that cannot be covered up like everything else shady he's done so that many of the people who voted for the Christian Conservative Republicans will wise up and turn their support back to the Democrats.

Realistically more people hate Bush than support him but many people who are open minded like "most" SW members are didn't vote.

Kerry carried more major metropolitan areas than Bush and since most people live in large cities it is a real shame that small town votes were enough to beat the big city ones.

In Nevada for instance, Kerry won the Las Vegas metro area which has 1.7 million people. The entire state only has 2.1 million people in it and Bush carried it. If more people like us who bitch and moan had voted in the big cities, Bush would be history.

That is the strength the Republicans have. Their core base is comprised of more homeowners, and stable people whose party years are over.

We'll have to see what goes down in the days/years to come. We may see the revolutionary times of the Woodstock era early 70's if too many conservative ideologies get pushed into law.

Let's hope some baaad things do these conservative bastards in!!!

Melonie
11-12-2004, 11:01 PM
You can't do anything in the conservative Christian run town that WANTS to arrest strippers so it looks good in the papers.... They CAN and WILL arrest girls in these towns for "hot" private dancing....

You're absolutely right. However, towns which have this degree of crusading usually telegraph their upcoming moves pretty clearly, giving dancers who read the local paper ample time to hit the road before busts start. And while I'll lay 1/3rd of the blame on 'bible thumpers', and another 1/3 of the blame on opportunistic politicians (and DA's and cops), it's also necessary to recognize that the last 1/3rd of the blame usually lies with clubowners who choose to flaunt the issue instead of cutting a quiet deal !

Tina
11-12-2004, 11:14 PM
Dallas is a prime example of the Christian Conservative control factor being used on local politicians, and in turn the politicians are complying to secure their positions.