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Madcap
11-10-2004, 08:41 PM
Anyone think this is good or bad for the middle east peace process?

Not that there actually IS a middle east peace process (That area has been at war with itself for 5,000 years), but the fantasy one we've deluded ourselves into thinking is real.

Sucks the dude is dying, but he was hardly angelic. Probably one of the more resonable terrorist leaders out there. I worry a bit for the Israeli people when i think of who may replace him. :-\

Jay Zeno
11-10-2004, 08:50 PM
If there's an afterlife, and as punishment for terrorist lives taken, he and Menachem Begin got locked in a room together .......

I digress.

I worry, too. Recent history indicatec to me that Middle East tensions respond best to moderate approaches, a la Israel and Egypt. Arafat had become more moderate, and now he's gone.

azamber
11-10-2004, 09:21 PM
He just died.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/10/arafat.obit/index.html

Madcap
11-10-2004, 09:22 PM
They just announced it... But the dude's been dead longer than you may think.

azamber
11-10-2004, 09:23 PM
You mean that literally?

madmaxine
11-10-2004, 09:25 PM
UH..........I wonder what it cost his soul to have the peaceful secluded death that many Israelis AND Palestinians were denied because of his actions and inactions. May God's will be done.....

Madcap
11-10-2004, 09:30 PM
You mean that literally?
Yes, i mean that literally.

When something like this happens, there's ALWAYS a scramble to decide what to tell people. They announced that he died two hours ago, i'd bet on two DAYS ago.

Damage control and all.

Took them some time to announce that ELVIS had died, after all.

azamber
11-10-2004, 09:32 PM
Hmm, you're probably right.

RedZ28
11-10-2004, 10:46 PM
In his earlier days, was quite a formidable foe to the "Jewish State." Over the years he eventually mellowed or so they say. They estimate his net worth to be over one billion dollars and his wife is given a yearly allowance of one million dollars. Where did this money come from? From the Israelis and the US among other sources "humanitarian aid" for the Palestinians. Strange how he lived in luxury while the rest of his people suffered. Similar to the plight of the North Korean people under that lunatic Kim Jung Il.

GnBeret
11-10-2004, 10:58 PM
While I would never wish death on anyone, the sad fact of the matter is that this will probably result in the first chance the Palestinians have had for a real settlement that actually addresses their needs in some 20+ years. Arafat sold them out long ago - he's been living like a King, profiting on their misery. Israel's been ready to cut a substantive deal for several years now, but there was no upside to same for Arafat and the Palestinian leadership. Although obviously a long shot, hopefully that will now change... any chance, no matter how remote, is better than what they had under Arafat. Here's to hoping. :optimist:

commando
11-11-2004, 12:00 AM
What a relief! I'll be out celebrating tomorrow night! I won't go too much into my reasons for relief for his passing, because several others have already summed it up pretty well. I just about lost it though when I heard Chirac praising him as courageous and kissing his dead ass. Tell me what's so brave about sending others to go and intentionally murder women and children. There is a lot of risk now for major social unrest in the territories however, and I hope that all goes well. Sorry if my feelings offend anyone, but I'm rather close to the situation there.

BTW - Isn't it interesting how the doctors won't disclose what killed him? IIIIII KNOW WHAT IT WAAAAAASSSSS!!!!;D Anyone else? Heehee... I know the secret!!! I'll tell you if you want to know!;) I see no reason to protect his dignity.

Madcap
11-11-2004, 12:14 AM
Cholesterol?

Madcap
11-11-2004, 12:15 AM
Commando, i don't like the guy either, i'm just a little worried for the teenagers, mothers, farmers, and children in Israel. Who might replace Arafat?

The evil ya know. Ya know?

commando
11-11-2004, 12:22 AM
Yeah, we'll see what happens. it's so unstable. And no, it was not cholesterol that killed ArabFat.

Madcap
11-11-2004, 01:15 AM
I didn't think so.

madgrad
11-11-2004, 02:25 AM
Don't worry no matter what killed Arafat, the answer in the Arab world will be "A plot carried out by the Zionists and U.S.A agents to further weaken the Palistinen People"

Melonie
11-11-2004, 04:25 AM
actually, the "timing" of Arafat's official death was specifically chosen for today, because the upcoming Muslim religious holiday precludes any "official business" being conducted until Monday (I think) in regard to choosing Arafat's official replacement. This time window will allow the Palestinian extremists to position themselves for whatever official power grab takes place early next week !

commando
11-11-2004, 07:16 AM
madgrad- Do you mean to say that the arabs are under the impression that everything bad that happens to them is a zionist and American plot? No, way, they couldn't possibly be that deluded and simple minded. *sarcasm*

GnBeret
11-11-2004, 07:57 AM
madgrad- Do you mean to say that the arabs are under the impression that everything bad that happens to them is a zionist and American plot? No, way, they couldn't possibly be that deluded and simple minded. *sarcasm*
Well, of course not! Why, that'd be no different than our being under the impression that every single act of terrorism that's occurred anywhere in the World since 9/11 is part of an Arab/Al-Qaida plot to bring us down... and quite clearly, we're not that deluded and simple minded, right? Right?? Bueller??? Anyone???? ::)

hardkandee
11-11-2004, 09:33 AM
Commando, i don't like the guy either, i'm just a little worried for the teenagers, mothers, farmers, and children in Israel. Who might replace Arafat?

The evil ya know. Ya know?
:yes: I think so too. At least we were familiar with him. Now everything is up in the air again. I've already lost family to suicide bombers, I'd rather not lose any more.

BigGreenMnM
11-11-2004, 10:02 AM
This time window will allow the Palestinian extremists to position themselves for whatever official power grab takes place early next week !

I sooooo agree.
Arafat didnt have a chain of command or a second in charge,he was an evil all untohimself imo.

How does someone who straps bombs to kids win the peace prize??

Glad he is gone,still waiting on Castro.

Im only sorry for the people who have to deal with the nutcases who are scrambling to replace him as the new "leader".

GnBeret
11-11-2004, 10:07 AM
:yes: I think so too. At least we were familiar with him. Now everything is up in the air again. I've already lost family to suicide bombers, I'd rather not lose any more.
Understand your concerns, but it's not like the bombing had stopped, or even slacked off to any appreciable degree under Arafat. Moreover, we've repeatedly caught him playing both sides of the fence, i.e., professing to want peace and claiming he's working to stop the renegade elements of the Palestinian movement that have continued to use violence as a means of resolving the situation, but all the while working with those elements of the Palestinian movement within his control to import vast quantities of arms and explosives. And finally, things have basically been "up in the air again" ever since the Israelis decided they'd waited long enough for Arafat to get some kind of meaningful control over his people and began building their Wall.

So, now we wait and see which faction of the Palestinian movement will emerge victorious after what will likely be a very vicious and bloody struggle for control amongst the many different factions... if the elements favoring a negotiated settlement prevail, this will be the best opportunity we've (meaning the World) had to forge a workable solution to this quandry in some 20+ years - but if the elements favoring a return to more frequent attackes on Israel prevail, all Hell is going to break loose! The Israelis are showing every sign of having had enough - as a matter of fact, the only reason Arafat wound up dying peacefully in Paris is that we managed (barely) to hold the Israelis off awhile back when they had him trapped in a house and were seriously contemplating killing him right then and there - and if the "drive the Israelis into the sea" part of the Palestinian movement regains control, I seriously doubt that we're going to be able to hold them back any longer. Hopefully, the Palestinians will do the right thing here while they have a chance.

Katrine
11-12-2004, 05:45 AM
Yeah, we'll see what happens. it's so unstable. And no, it was not cholesterol that killed ArabFat.
So what was it? Do you suspect foul play? I do...from his own peeps!

commando
11-12-2004, 09:46 AM
Nope, not poisoned either, though some had considered that. Give up?
ARAFAT DIED OF AIDS. It has been known to Israeli intelligence since I believe the '70s that Arafat has had many homosexual relationships and was fairly promiscuous. There are pictures of some of these activities. Though they are not publicly available, I can assure you they are real. Think about it, why else would the doctors and top aides not disclose what killed him? They aren't saying anymore that they don't know what it was, they simply won't disclose. And remember why he was having bloos tranfusions in the French hospital? Low platelet count!Why has this never been publicly disclosed by the israeli government? because they know full well that it would create such a backlash of arab rage and fury that it simply would not be worth it. Anyway, for those who wanted to know, that's why Arafat is dead.

madgrad
11-12-2004, 10:15 PM
Like I said before no matter what really killed him; the Arab World's Answer will be " A Zionist/ US plot aimed at weakening the Palestian People"

After the intial mourning of Arafat,the next step is watching the power struggle for leadership, control, and direction of the Palestian People between the following parties that i know of: The Iranian/Syrian backed Hezzbollah Shite extremist group (Prior to 9/11/01 Hezzbollah killed more Americans in the world than any other terrorist group), Hamas (Sunni Fundementalist terrorist group), The Tunisian Old Guard (nick name for Arafat's current cabinet members), The Palestinian State Security Orginization (if there is a Laverenti Beria type behind it), Al Aqasa Marytars Brigade, and possiblilly Al Queda vying for power.

The results of this in fighting will be nothing but more misery for the Palistinians and Isreali's to have to endure now and quite possibily in the future no matter which group comes out on top.

GnBeret
11-13-2004, 03:15 AM
Here we go: link is to article re Bush and Blair backing a Palistinian state - they don't make the most of this opportunity though, I suspect we'll all but completely throw in the towel insofar as trying to restrain Israel goes.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041113/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_blair

threlayer
11-13-2004, 01:27 PM
Well, it's slightly a better chance to improve things over there. But the mass neuroticism of both the militant Palestinians and the right-wing Israelis will be just much of a roadblock to peace as ever. The next generation wil likely be even more militant on both sides. Maybe this is all related to the predictions made in the Book of Relevations. As mystical as that comment is, maybe it is the only thing that makes sense.

madgrad
11-15-2004, 11:14 PM
New's Flash-

Suprise, Surprise, Arafat's successor has just survived being shot at by assassins because he is an "American Agent".

The Fun and Games have just begun...

azamber
11-20-2004, 03:57 PM
This supports Commando's theory:

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,11446514%255E663,00.html

242_fair
11-20-2004, 04:38 PM
Long live the state of Palestine, and may the will of the Palestinian people carry on to surpass the drive of this great leader who had watched his people suffer so much.

BTW: I think Shua should take a diet, she looked better slim.

commando
11-20-2004, 05:30 PM
Are you being sarcastic? Because if not, then there's one thing in there I agree with. ArabFat did sit and WATCH while keeping billions of dollars in his Swiss bank accounts and not doing anything to actually help his people. Sending out suicide bombers to blow up busses knowing full well that the only things that would accomplish (aside from killing innocent civilians) would be full closures on the territories so that his people couldn't leave to work, and giving the Israeli government more motivation to not negotiate. Yeah, great leader.

discretedancer
11-20-2004, 06:28 PM
New blood could be good...but only if our CIA stays the hell away (which we won't).

I believe most "developed" nations need to develop a Prime Directive of Nonintervention, especially when it comes to the Mideast.

But, nonintervention means we must not remain dependent on that black blood they keep feeding our economy with. Nonintervention requires sustainable independence (for US).

GnBeret
11-20-2004, 07:34 PM
Are you being sarcastic?
Commando - doubt it, look at the name... refers to U.N. Resolution 242.;)

Lilith
11-20-2004, 09:49 PM
But, nonintervention means we must not remain dependent on that black blood they keep feeding our economy with.
The top two suppliers of crude for the US are actually Mexico and Canada. In that order. Number three would be Saudi Arabia- the only ME country to make the top five list- which accounts for less than 15% of our "black blood" infusions. Rounding out the top suppliers are Nigeria and Venezuela.

Just in case you were wondering, neither Palestine nor Israel have oil.

GnBeret
11-20-2004, 10:54 PM
Actually, Canada is our largest crude supplier, followed by Mexico.

Lilith
11-20-2004, 11:47 PM
US top crude oil suppliers - mbd
Change Jan 04 - Jan 03

Country
Jan-04
Dec-03
Jan-03

Mexico
1.665
1.765
1.566
0.099

Canada
1.626
1.765
1.621
0.005


They seem to have spent the last couple of years jostling each other for our business. Last report has Mexico leading, before that a tie, before that Canada leading. My best guess from the available information is that Mexico was a happy underdog for years until Venezuela had a supply problem in 2000. I don't exactly subcribe to Petroleum Weekly, so feel free to post any more recent reports.

commando
11-21-2004, 04:02 AM
LOL- GrnBeret, I didn't even make the connection! very astute! What would I do without you?

And yes, people seem to make the assumption that becaue Israel is located in the middle east, that the whole conflict has something to do with oil. *sigh*

242_fair
11-21-2004, 06:38 PM
Commando - doubt it, look at the name... refers to U.N. Resolution 242.;)

Actually 242 is one of my lucky numbers. It had nothing to do with UN resolutions (which, incidentally, Israel has been in violation of for nearly a half-century). At any rate, just wanted to point out that you were paranoid / conspiracy-minded enough yourself to affix meaning to a wholly unrelated incidental set of 3 (three!!!) charachters - quite a feat.

It does not suprise me that you are from texas. Bush used a similar method to determine Iraq needed to be conqured.

"242_fair" = advocate of anti-Zionist united nations resolutions esp res #242
"IraQ = AlQaida ( hey, they both have the letter Q, its so obvious they're in kahoots! )

GnBeret
11-21-2004, 09:23 PM
Actually 242 is one of my lucky numbers. It had nothing to do with UN resolutions (which, incidentally, Israel has been in violation of for nearly a half-century). At any rate, just wanted to point out that you were paranoid / conspiracy-minded enough yourself to affix meaning to a wholly unrelated incidental set of 3 (three!!!) charachters - quite a feat.

It does not suprise me that you are from texas. Bush used a similar method to determine Iraq needed to be conqured.

"242_fair" = advocate of anti-Zionist united nations resolutions esp res #242
"IraQ = AlQaida ( hey, they both have the letter Q, its so obvious they're in kahoots! )
Not from Texas... just moved here awhile back. And as long as we're at it, voted for Kerry.:O

madgrad
11-21-2004, 11:32 PM
Well,

If you all checked the news recently, the Arabs and Palastinians are now blaming Arafat's death on "poisoning by Israeli agents".

More fun to come...

Melonie
11-22-2004, 05:03 AM
And yes, people seem to make the assumption that becaue Israel is located in the middle east, that the whole conflict has something to do with oil. *sigh*

Thank you for driving to the heart of this matter ! Reading a little 1919 history teaches a lot more about UK and US foreign policy vis a vis the middle east and attitudes of middle eastern factions than anything else !