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Jenny
01-01-2005, 07:42 PM
hey, they are not sluts. they're "clean" dancers! there's a big difference in how you make a guy splooge in his pants. at least, that's the popular theory. Okay - just out of curiosity - and of course, because I greatly value your point of view (really. I do. I am not just one of those immature individuals who gets a great deal more enjoyment out of disagreeing with people constantly than... well, most other things. Stop looking at me like that) you DON'T think there is a difference in how you make a guy... you know. I mean, I must say that for me rubbing pretty much any part of my body over a guy's crotch while he is wearing pants still feels little different than actually unzipping him and giving him a handjob. I am willing to admit that it is a little odd that I am willing to touch the guy with pretty much any part of my body except my hands, which are typically considered somewhat less intimate (like, I go around shaking hands with people ALL the time, at NO CHARGE!), yet I am pretty sure that I would catch more hell if I WERE touching the guy with my hands, you know? I would think that you, of all people, would appreciate that difference.


in what way? I think mainly because, well, by these standards I seem to be kind of skank. Which I had never really thought about before. I am going to have to start spying on all the other girls in my club to be sure, because really, if I am going to be a skank, I am seriously underearning! So, thanks for your input. If I double my money in the next month or so, I'll send you 5% of the increase.


in any case, the business may have changed over the years. however, the people really haven't changed at all. a dancer who was performing say, 20 years ago would consider all of the current dancers "dirty" and a stripper dancing 30 years ago would go even further.Oh baby, I think you've got that wrong. I have had the dubious privilege of talking to several women who danced back in the 70s, and they did not have ringing endorsements for the cleanliness of the business - if anything they (mostly) thought it was more sordid. Fewer degrees, a great deal of overt prostitution, that kind of thing. Girls now have this notion of "good old days" back before men liked paying for blowjobs, but nothing I've heard about the "good old days" particularly confirm that they existed. Although when I started dancing I (I mean me personally, not the business in general) did like 12 inch air dances - no one laid hands on me at all - although it was full nude. Now I kind of wonder what I did for song after song - it just seems tiring now.

mr_punk
01-02-2005, 11:37 AM
you DON'T think there is a difference in how you make a guy... you know.personally, i've never come even remotely close to cumming from a mere LD. sorry, i can't cum from what is basically a dry pull (ouch!). futhermore, aside from a potentially huge dry cleaning bill, why bother if there are HJ or BJ available. however, there are guys who do get off in this fashion. do you think it makes a difference to them in how you get them off? i don't think it does..


I mean, I must say that for me rubbing pretty much any part of my body over a guy's crotch while he is wearing pants still feels little different than actually unzipping him and giving him a handjob.sure, i can understand why you might feel that way. however, if the guy cums, as a result of you rubbing your body over his covered crotch. are you freaked out or do just consider it a normal reaction? in any case, you must have missed the "i'm worried about splooging in my pants" thread upstairs. so, while this reaction may be accidental in some cases. some guys do go to sc with the intent of blowing their load in their pants for various reasons. futhermore, some strippers knowingly and willingly help the guy to splooge in his pants, hands or no hands. what can i tell you? it's a sales technique. that's why customers go to such lengths like wearing lubricated condoms or picking out the right pair pants or shorts made of very thin material, not wearing underwear, etc.


I am willing to admit that it is a little odd that I am willing to touch the guy with pretty much any part of my body except my hands, which are typically considered somewhat less intimate (like, I go around shaking hands with people ALL the time, at NO CHARGE!), yet I am pretty sure that I would catch more hell if I WERE touching the guy with my hands, you know? I would think that you, of all people, would appreciate that difference..sure, i can appreciate the fact that you find it odd that rubbing your body (sans hands) over a customer's crotch is less intimate than rubbing his willy thru his pants with your hands. i also realize that strippers are sometimes conflicted over the things they do inside of a sc. so, i could see how it would blow their fantasy out of the water. if she grabbed his willy through his pants. i can also appreciate the fact that you would catch more hell if you did started doing so. like i said, due to the YMMV and DP. strippers don't want other strippers and/or customers to know what goes on during each transaction.


I think mainly because, well, by these standards I seem to be kind of skank..no need to be modest, jenny. i always thought of you as more of a jezebel whore. anyway, i wouldn't get too worked up about it. you're planning to become a lawyer, right? so, consider it a good headstart over your fellow minions of hell in law school.


So, thanks for your input. If I double my money in the next month or so, I'll send you 5% of the increase..thanks, but i must decline your offer. in the end, my ex-wives would smell blood and end up taking the money away from me. so, why do them any favors.


Oh baby, I think you've got that wrong.no, i think you're misunderstanding my point.


I have had the dubious privilege of talking to several women who danced back in the 70s, and they did not have ringing endorsements for the cleanliness of the business - if anything they (mostly) thought it was more sordid. Fewer degrees, a great deal of overt prostitution, that kind of thing. Girls now have this notion of "good old days" back before men liked paying for blowjobs, but nothing I've heard about the "good old days" particularly confirm that they existed.sure, and that was my point. a lot of this "good ol days" nonsense is being viewed through the lens of nostalgia because even the women who danced back way back in the burlesque days were not as "classy" as everyone likes to think. that was just an image they liked to project to the rubes. in reality, if a rival stole a bit from their act. they would go after them with a baseball bat in a dark alley. in reality, they were just women who didn't have a lot of education or options at the time and were willing to take off their clothes for a living and yes, they did fuck customers or their sugar daddies for the right price. perhaps, not inside the club. however, they frowned upon other dancers who did the same thing because, in the end, it was always about the money.

Jenny
01-02-2005, 05:31 PM
personally, i've never come even remotely close to cumming from a mere LD.
Oh. That's so sad. I'm sorry. Maybe you could, like, try harder, or something?


do you think it makes a difference to them in how you get them off? i don't think it does..
Well, I suppose that you are a guy, so I could take you at your word... no, I'm not gonna. I think it does make a difference. (If anyone else is still reading this, we could have a little poll: is there is difference (assuming that the guy cums either way) between the girl rubbing her ass or her knee on your crotch and unzipping you and giving you a handjob? I just - I don't know, I just think there is a difference.


sure, i can understand why you might feel that way. however, if the guy cums, as a result of you rubbing your body over his covered crotch. are you freaked out or do just consider it a normal reaction?
I'm okay with it, as long as I don't get wet. I mean, it is kind of a normal reaction. I am back there doing my best to get the guy worked up, it's be pretty cheap of me to blame him or get pissy because he does. On the other hand, if I encountered a guy pretty much anywhere else walking around with dry cum on his pants, I will not vouch for what I would think of him.


in any case, you must have missed the "i'm worried about splooging in my pants" thread upstairs.
I could have. I'm not sure. Semen seems to be an inexhaustible topic on stripperweb.


that's why customers go to such lengths like wearing lubricated condoms or picking out the right pair pants or shorts made of very thin material, not wearing underwear, etc.
Okay, notwithstanding what I just said: Eeww.


i also realize that strippers are sometimes conflicted over the things they do inside of a sc. so, i could see how it would blow their fantasy out of the water. if she grabbed his willy through his pants.
Okay, I am not conflicted. Well, I am conflicted, but not in the way that you mean. (It's just that some day I would like a job in which I wear something other than lingerie. Lawyers wear clothes right? I've been living under black lights so long I just can't remember.) It just really does FEEL like you are doing less. I'm pretty sure it feels like less to the customers as well (I'll see how my poll idea goes).



no need to be modest, jenny. i always thought of you as more of a jezebel whore.
Thank you! That's nice of you.

Wait - is a jezebel whore a promotion from skank, or not? Was that nice?



thanks, but i must decline your offer. in the end, my ex-wives would smell blood and end up taking the money away from me. so, why do them any favors.
Good. Because I think I was probably lying anyway.

mr_punk
01-02-2005, 08:32 PM
Oh. That's so sad. I'm sorry. Maybe you could, like, try harder, or something?you sound so familiar...encouraging and yet emasculating and caustic at the same time, but i don't recall being married to a canadian. unless, it happened in the late 80s. i don't recall much from that period of time... it's a total blank.


is there is difference (assuming that the guy cums either way) between the girl rubbing her ass or her knee on your crotch and unzipping you and giving you a handjob? I just - I don't know, I just think there is a difference.first of all, if you want that type of poll on this site. you might as well ask a group of tree-huggers about the greenhouse effect. most of the guys here seem to be of the type of customer that needs a little bit more than a hot-looking broad and sky-high mileage.

second of all, i'm not talking about the difference between freeing willy and giving a HJ and you rubbing your body over him. like i said, i can appreciate the fact that you find it odd that rubbing your body (sans hands) over a customer's crotch is less intimate than rubbing his willy thru his pants with your hands.

my point is that there are guys who do get off in this fashion. they go to sc with the intent of blowing their loads in their pants. the fact that you're not unzipping his fly or even rubbing his crotch with your hands makes no difference to them. they don't need a BJ or HJ, either. none of that is really necessary. ultimately, with the right pair of pants, lube, or condom they can get off just as easily because you're using your ass, your knee, boobs, etc. like i said, strippers do help them achieve this goal. it's just another way to cultivate customers.



It just really does FEEL like you are doing less.i'm sure it does feel like less. i'm sure you're probably not even thinking about him splooging in his pants.


I'm pretty sure it feels like less to the customers as well (I'll see how my poll idea goes).so, you think a it "feels like less" if that customer splooges in his pants? anyway, let me know how that polls goes. i'm sure guys will be lining up to answer that they like to splooge in their pants at sc. anyway, take a look at this thread: http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39547&highlight=condom+pervert+load


It's just that some day I would like a job in which I wear something other than lingerie. Lawyers wear clothes right? I've been living under black lights so long I just can't remember.well, if you're going to be a lawyer. i don't think there's any chance of you seeing daylight anytime soon. i thought all lawyers returned to their coffins during the day.


Wait - is a jezebel whore a promotion from skank, or not? Was that nice?are you kidding. of course, it's a promotion. you skipped right over the rank of "cum dumpster" and "cock socket".


Good. Because I think I was probably lying anyway.lying is a good sign. i'm sure you'll make a great lawyer one day. so,do me a favor and don't go become a divorce attorney

devilkitty
01-03-2005, 01:34 AM
Ok so this has totally become a mrpunk Jenny shoot out, if you guys dont mind please get a room and shoot elsewhere at the very least sart e mailing eachother this crap....Thanks and have a nice day.;D

SportsWriter2
01-03-2005, 04:48 AM
Ok so this has totally become a mrpunk Jenny shoot out, if you guys dont mind please get a room and shoot elsewhere at the very least sart e mailing eachother this crap....Thanks and have a nice day.;D
Actually, I think this should be their designated shoot-out room. I like to read it. Mr P and Jenny are the Peter North and Kylie Wilde of SCJ; they can both shoot forever. :D

Happy_Camper
01-03-2005, 07:13 AM
actually I think this is some good shit...I havent laughed so hard in a while. Keep them coming.

Moneywise
01-03-2005, 09:04 AM
actually I think this is some good shit...I havent laughed so hard in a while. Keep them coming.
Yeah. What he said w/ sugar on top. :P

MW

Jenny
01-03-2005, 01:50 PM
first of all, if you want that type of poll on this site. you might as well ask a group of tree-huggers about the greenhouse effect. most of the guys here seem to be of the type of customer that needs a little bit more than a hot-looking broad and sky-high mileage.So we'd be going with a "yes" here then, right? Because somebody very thoughtfully posted a poll for me and, in general, the consensus seems to be that it makes a difference.


second of all, i'm not talking about the difference between freeing willy and giving a HJ God - at this point I am going to BEG you to stop using the expression "freeing willy" or "free willy" or "willy" with any conjugation of "free". It's just so weird.


my point is that there are guys who do get off in this fashion. they go to sc with the intent of blowing their loads in their pants. the fact that you're not unzipping his fly or even rubbing his crotch with your hands makes no difference to them. But I'm pretty sure it does. I'm pretty sure that no matter how easy the guy is there is still a hierchy of getting off. I would imagine (and you can correct me if I'm wrong here) would run something like - grinding - handjob - blowjob... etc (there are probably all sorts of variations and degrees that I have completely ignored). Now, you might think that as the owner of a penis (presumably) and the strip club connoisseur I ought to just take your word for it. But I won't. Because for me, if I were to get off from a friction dance it still feels very different (probably from both my point of view and the other party's) from having someone's proverbial hand down my proverbial pants. You would have to give me something pretty compelling to convince me that guys are THAT different.


they don't need a BJ or HJ, either. none of that is really necessary. ultimately, with the right pair of pants, lube, or condom they can get off just as easily because you're using your ass, your knee, boobs, etc. "Just as easily"? -- Are you sure? It doesn't sound as easy. As I said, I don't have a penis, but still. You're sure it wouldn't be even a little easier with a blowjob?


i'm sure it does feel like less. i'm sure you're probably not even thinking about him splooging in his pants. Okay. I'm not, largely because most guys prefer not to walk around with dry semen on their pants after a dance, so they will in fact stop me if it is becoming (ha - there is pun. Get it? Sorry, I'm twelve today) an issue. Those few guys that don't seem to be worried about it don't figure largely in my professional life. Or my personal life. They just don't figure largely.


so, you think a it "feels like less" if that customer splooges in his pants? Yes! I keep saying. Ahem. "Assuming that the customer cums either way". Alright. I am planning on working again tomorrow. I will find (maybe. I probably shouldn't make promises here) a customer that has "splooged" in the past and I will - hypothetically, because I don't want to get arrested or pounded in the dressing room - offer him the friction dance that made him "splooge" in the past and a handjob and/or blowjob (whichever). I'll let you know if he picks the "sure thing" (the friction that has worked in the past) the "extra" (which might be a little risky - we've never done it before, and for all he knows I could just be really bad at giving head) or if he just says "You know, it's up to you. I'll get there either way, so it doesn't really matter to me." I'll be honest, I have my suspicions about which way that'll go, but I'll try not to let my hypothesis interfere with the experiment.

By the way - "splooge" is another one that I will get down on my virtual knees and beg you to stop saying. Or typing. Seriously, man, it's embarrassing for me to read your posts sometimes.


are you kidding. of course, it's a promotion. you skipped right over the rank of "cum dumpster" and "cock socket". Funny thing - I don't think I would have said "thank you" if you had said that you always thought of me as a "cum dumpster." Girls are weird, aren't they?


lying is a good sign. Well then. Did you know that elephants died standing up?

By the way - if I overshared or over graphiczied in this post, I'm sorry. I'll clean it up next time.

And finally, by the way:

at the very least sart e mailing eachother this crapYou can't possibly think that I would give any of these guys my email address. One of them would inevitably sign me up on a porn website, and I would get ad after ad in my inbox promising me a bigger penis, girls and zebras, and a variety of methods guaranteed to make her beg for more.

Katrine
01-03-2005, 02:57 PM
All hail Jenny, new queen of SCJ!
:worship:

:thanx: for the laughs and the memories!

Jenny
01-03-2005, 11:13 PM
Gosh. This is actually really making me realize that I spend an inordinate amount of time here. (I just like you guys so much!!!)

Although this is what always happens with me. I come to this site because I have no strippy friends (therefore nobody who really gets it, and most of whom are somewhat uncomfortable with me getting it) and I spend all my time talking to the pervy customers (of whom I see plenty). You don't know me, so you don't get it. But really. Fucking typical.

Moneywise
01-03-2005, 11:18 PM
You can't buy this stuff in stores. I love a good meeting of two great minds. http://www.adultnetsurprise.com/forums/images/smilies/new/argue.gif

MW

Jenny
01-03-2005, 11:46 PM
See, this could be why I spend all this time on the blue site. All my minor league bitchery seems to be designated as cute and funny.

That's awesome. I should live here.

Katrine
01-04-2005, 03:08 PM
Gosh. This is actually really making me realize that I spend an inordinate amount of time here. (I just like you guys so much!!!)

Although this is what always happens with me. I come to this site because I have no strippy friends (therefore nobody who really gets it, and most of whom are somewhat uncomfortable with me getting it) and I spend all my time talking to the pervy customers (of whom I see plenty). You don't know me, so you don't get it. But really. Fucking typical.

I think we were seperated at birth Jenny! I've actually made a couple of stripper friends here on SW, more than I've ever had in real life. For some reason, strippers at work don't seem nearly as cool when you see them drunk in the dressing room crying that they made 1k sucking dick in VIP and still can't pay their rent......::)

Jenny
01-04-2005, 11:04 PM
Baby, I don't think any girls in my club COULD make 1K, no matter how much or hard they sucked.

I'm sorry. That was bitchy.

I worked tonight, which might explain it.

Rath
01-05-2005, 09:50 AM
Holy shit. This is, like, maybe the best thread I've ever read about strip clubs anywhere.

(OK, the best thread since the mid-nineties Golden Age of ASSC.) (And maybe the "phone number" thread on Utopia Guide.)

Interesting that Mr. Punk and Jenny essentially agree but don't sound like it. Maybe Jenny'd understand Mr. Punk's starting point better if she spent more time reading Stripper Web and talking to her colleagues at her club (not that I'd wish either of those on her).

((What a boring post. Sorry. Back to lurking.))

One other thing. If Jenny lived in New York, I'd make her a comfortable woman. (If she put out.)

Jenny
01-05-2005, 10:08 AM
One other thing. If Jenny lived in New York, I'd make her a comfortable woman. (If she put out.)

Oh, come on Rath. You wouldn't make me even moderately comfortable in exchange for handjobs? Not even if I were really good at them?

It's moot, really, anyway. The guys on here say things like that, but when they meet me they are completely turned off by my lack of teeth, the hunchback and the large pus-filled sac that is obscuring my left eye; whenever I blink it moves a little, and some of the pus leaks out and drips down my face. And then of course the is the genetic defect that causes my nose to constantly bleed. And my lower lip is unnaturally large and swollen so my nose blood is constantly dripping into my mouth and I make this kind of slurping, bubbling noise because I wind up drinking my own noseblood all day. Sigh. Everything is always about looks.

And that will teach you to think about me putting out.

Rath
01-05-2005, 10:16 AM
This is too much.

My dream girl appears -- I'd given up all hope of EVER finding a stripper who looks like that (and with red hair to boot!) -- and she lives in fucking Canada.

Wait! I may have to take a deposition in Toronto next week!

JENNY WHERE DO YOU WORK???????????????????????

[Smiley indicating I don't expect an answer.]

Rath
01-05-2005, 10:17 AM
(Well, my absolute ideal woman would have puss sac covering her RIGHT eye. But nobody's perfect.)

Rath
01-05-2005, 10:22 AM
To be painfully obvious, when Mr. Punk says that most "nice guy" PL-types who spend a lot of time and money in strip clubs aren't being honest about what they want, what he means is that those guys want to have sex with the strippers as much as Mr. Punk and me and all the other customers who actually DO so. It's just that for some reason they think it isn't genteel to admit that's what they want (much less to act on it).

From my perspective, I find it hard to see how guys like that (remember, they're not only hiding from what they really want, but are paying lots of money not to get it) aren't more pathetic than guys who acknowledge their wants and act on them. (Which is not to say, of course, that you have to be [or should be] rude or crude about it.)

((OK. Back to lurking. Really.))

mr_punk
01-05-2005, 10:23 AM
Interesting that Mr. Punk and Jenny essentially agree but don't sound like it.that's all jenny's doing. i think she's practicing for moot court.


What a boring post. Sorry.Back to lurking.stick around, Rath. believe me, it's kinda dead around here.


The guys on here say things like that, but when they meet me they are completely turned off by my lack of teeth, the hunchback and the large pus-filled sac that is obscuring my left eye; whenever I blink it moves a little, and some of the pus leaks out and drips down my face. And then of course the is the genetic defect that causes my nose to constantly bleed. And my lower lip is unnaturally large and swollen so my nose blood is constantly dripping into my mouth and I make this kind of slurping, bubbling noise because I wind up drinking my own noseblood all day.Sigh. Everything is always about looks now, that i think about it. i've never slept with a grotesque mutant before. at least, not while i was sober, but you sound kinda hot. are you free this week?

mr_punk
01-05-2005, 10:26 AM
So we'd be going with a "yes" here then, right? Because somebody very thoughtfully posted a poll for me and, in general, the consensus seems to be that it makes a difference.yeah right, you're talking about a poll created by sporty. you do know that sporty believes that strippers orgasm from lap dances, don't you?


But I'm pretty sure it does. I'm pretty sure that no matter how easy the guy is there is still a hierchy of getting off.perhaps, but i'm not really talking about a hierarchy at all. in any case, isn't a hierarchy of getting off a bit too subjective? for example, if you asked me to arrange a HJ, BJ and FS into a hierarchy ranging from the least pleasurable to the most pleasurable. i would have an impossible time doing so.


Now, you might think that as the owner of a penis (presumably) and the strip club connoisseur I ought to just take your word for it. But I won't..why not? i accepted your word when you mentioned that it felt like you were doing less. now, my word isn't good enough for you? okay, don't answer that question.


Because for me, if I were to get off from a friction dance it still feels very different (probably from both my point of view and the other party's) from having someone's proverbial hand down my proverbial pants. You would have to give me something pretty compelling to convince me that guys are THAT different..okay, but i never disagreed that each act may feel differently. in fact, this is like my second or third time stating that fact. however, i get the feeling that we're not talking about the quite the same thing.


"Just as easily"? -- Are you sure? It doesn't sound as easy. As I said, I don't have a penis, but still..why is it so difficult for you to believe that some guys can get off that easily? why is it so difficult for you to believe that some guys pick strippers on the basis of grindage? a stripper who can give them a happy ending (is that better word than splooge?) and that a HJ really isn't necessary to achieve that goal?


You're sure it wouldn't be even a little easier with a blowjob?perhaps, but have you ever considered the fact that a BJ or a HJ might exceed their limits in some fashion? for example, you stated that you're perfectly willing to rub your body over a customer within certain limits. so, what makes you think that customers don't have their own limitations in a sc? i mean, we all hear and talk about what guys will do or at least attempt to do in a strip club, but hardly anyone ever pays attention to what they won't, can't or how far are they willing to go in a sc.


Yes! I keep saying. Ahem. "Assuming that the customer cums either way"..ok, let me know how your experiment goes, but from the looks of your experiment. i now know we're not talking about quite the same thing. so, i'll try to put it differently. let's say, your SO recieved a BJ from another woman and you found out about it and confronted him about it. let's say...he proclaims, "i did not have sex with that woman". obviously, he believes that he didn't have sex with that woman. i'm also sure he thinks that FS feels differently than a BJ. i'm also sure that he believes that it feels like he's not cheating, very much like you feel that rubbing a customer with your body feels like less than doing it with your hands.

on a side note, i'm also sure that you and the other woman in question might feel differently. of course, i really don't see the problem because his explanation sounds totally plausible to me }:D . however, do you think he came less harder because it was BJ and not FS? do you think his orgasm physically felt like less simply because it was a BJ and not FS? i don't think so and that's my point....you're talking about the details of the journey. i'm talking about the final destination. so when you say it "feels like less" to you or even the customer or that it feels differently rubbing your body over a customers than a HJ. i don't disagree with you. however, i don't care what methods a stripper or a customer employs to reach that happy ending because i know that once he reaches that final destination, it sure as hell doesn't feel like less.


Funny thing - I don't think I would have said "thank you" if you had said that you always thought of me as a "cum dumpster." Girls are weird, aren't they?boy, you said it. so, does this mean that promoting you to rank of "human glazed bukkake donut", is out of the question?

Rath
01-05-2005, 10:35 AM
so, what makes you think that customers don't have their own limitations in a sc? i mean, we all hear and talk about what guys will do or at least attempt to do in a strip club, but hardly anyone ever pays attention to what they won't, can't or how far are they willing to go in a sc.

Oh yeah. I forgot the OTHER way the "nice guy" PL types are dishonest.

OK. ONE of the other ways.

Silverback
01-05-2005, 09:21 PM
Oh, come on Rath. You wouldn't make me even moderately comfortable in exchange for handjobs? Not even if I were really good at them?

It's moot, really, anyway. The guys on here say things like that, but when they meet me they are completely turned off by my lack of teeth, the hunchback and the large pus-filled sac that is obscuring my left eye; whenever I blink it moves a little, and some of the pus leaks out and drips down my face. And then of course the is the genetic defect that causes my nose to constantly bleed. And my lower lip is unnaturally large and swollen so my nose blood is constantly dripping into my mouth and I make this kind of slurping, bubbling noise because I wind up drinking my own noseblood all day. Sigh. Everything is always about looks.

And that will teach you to think about me putting out.

Yeah, we forget you're Canadian.;D


(disclaimer: Kidding)

Jenny
01-06-2005, 12:06 AM
Okay, got to be honest here, wasn't expecting to appeal so strongly to the mutant freak fetishists. Who knew? I thought only Canadians could adequately appreciate a woman who spends her days slurping her own noseblood. You guys are just opening up a whole new world.


those guys want to have sex with the strippers as much as Mr. Punk and me and all the other customers who actually DO so.
Okay, I don't want to be difficult about this, and I don't know where you live but:
I have always worked nude. Now, when a girl gets on a stage, takes off her panties and spreads her legs, you can tell if she has recently engaged in intercourse. And it doesn't look that pretty. Except in a certain context. So I can be reasonably sure about girls not having sex in my clubs. So I find claims of sex in these clubs kind of ... difficult to believe.


that's all jenny's doing
Why is it always the woman's fault? You're sexist.


now, that i think about it. i've never slept with a grotesque mutant before. at least, not while i was sober, but you sound kinda hot. are you free this week?
Okay, I can see here that you are just deliberately thinking about me putting out because I asked you not to. You are just being difficult.

But, yeah.


you do know that sporty believes that strippers orgasm from lap dances, don't you?

Strippers do orgasm from lapdances. I mean, not every dance, every time. But it does happen.


if you asked me to arrange a HJ, BJ and FS into a hierarchy ranging from the least pleasurable to the most pleasurable. i would have an impossible time doing so.

Well, shucks. I was just going to ask you to. You won't even try? Okay then, fine, if you're going to be so inflexible about this. Anyway, regardless, you probably do have a particular activity you are more likely to try to purchase, yes? Like if the dancer were offering (at the same rate - and no, I don't know why she's doing this, maybe she's stupid, that is not at issue) oral, penetrative sex, anal and a handjob, you might have one that you would go for?
And I know YOU'RE not talking about a hierarchy. The hierarchy was my thing.


why not? i accepted your word when you mentioned that it felt like you were doing less. now, my word isn't good enough for you? okay, don't answer that question.

Well, I've been reviewing our posts and I just think I seem much more reliable than you.

(Okay, I should drop this before people start mentioning that I have the consistency of a gerbil.)


why is it so difficult for you to believe that some guys can get off that easily?
Okay. I don't find it hard to believe that there are guys who get off that easily. I just think that most guys would get off EVEN MORE easily with... I don't know, upgraded stimulation.


we all hear and talk about what guys will do or at least attempt to do in a strip club, but hardly anyone ever pays attention to what they won't, can't or how far are they willing to go in a sc.
Well, I certainly don't. And if he resists in any way... okay, I'm not even going to finish talking about sexually assaulting my customers. But really. Don't cross me.


your SO recieved a BJ from another woman and you found out about it and confronted him about it. let's say...he proclaims, "i did not have sex with that woman". obviously, he believes that he didn't have sex with that woman.
Well, he didn't have sex with her. And of all the myriad things I would be pissed at (like if he didn't reciprocate in some way - that is very impolite, and it is disrespectful to all women. And I think he owes her a ride home) one of them would be cheating. So blowjobs are cheating, and grinding is stimulation. But we are back the notion of degrees. There are some kinds of cheating that are more... cheaty than others. (For example, letting women grind on you while you are fully clothed in exchange for money is relatively harmless).


however, do you think he came less harder because it was BJ and not FS? do you think his orgasm physically felt like less simply because it was a BJ and not FS?
Um, yes. I mean, I know there are some guys who are fixated on blowjobs, but most guys I have dated tend to... prefer FS. I mean, given the option. I mean, I might still be pissed off, but I might be pissed off if he were making out with some other girl (or guy) and didn't have any orgasms at all. So, your analogy is mysterious to me. Now. If you truly believe that one orgasm is as good as another, why pay anyone at all? Why not just sit at home and masturbate? I mean, you'll cum eventually (unless you are completely incompetent, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt). But it's kind of better to get someone else to do it for you, yes? Or at least have an audience.


boy, you said it. so, does this mean that promoting you to rank of "human glazed bukkake donut", is out of the question?
I just had to look up bukkake. You learn something new everyday.

Jenny
01-06-2005, 12:11 AM
Okay, new story, that deserves it's own post, because I'm about to do something you might never see again.

I just want to make sure that you are paying attention.

I am reconsidering a position previously held in this thread.
(I know - it was unexpected for me too)

I spent some time objecting to the idea of "telling the dancer what to do" as being kind of disrespectful. I think I might change my mind. I had a very bossy customer a few days ago, and I think I kind of liked him. I mean, if nothing else it completely relieved me of the need to ... well, think about anything at all. No guess work. You definitely know he enjoyed it. And he was pretty polite about the whole thing.

So. Gosh. Before you know it, I am just going to run out of disagreement steam. But it was fun while it lasted.

Rath
01-06-2005, 09:02 AM
Okay, I don't want to be difficult about this, and I don't know where you live but:
I have always worked nude. Now, when a girl gets on a stage, takes off her panties and spreads her legs, you can tell if she has recently engaged in intercourse. And it doesn't look that pretty. Except in a certain context. So I can be reasonably sure about girls not having sex in my clubs. So I find claims of sex in these clubs kind of ... difficult to believe.

I don't know what to say, Jenny.

I live in New York City. Probably I have more sex with strippers outside clubs than inside clubs. And, of course, for purposes of this discussion, it really doesn't matter if the deeds are done inside the club or on outside "dates".

But having said that, there aren't many clubs in Manhattan that I haven't had sex in, and there are a few where I do so regularly. I don't know how widespread this is, since many of the clubs where I regularly do this stuff have the general reputations of being low-mileage clip joints; it helps, with respect to club management, to be a good customer and, with respect to the girls, to be a presentable and, by some reckonings, maybe even somewhat interesting in-a-way guy (it doesn't hurt to obviously have some money, either).*

Not owning a vagina, I never thought about this issue, but in the nude clubs I guess the girls leave their panties on for a while afterwards.

I'm interested in your politely-expressed skepticism, because one thing that has always interested me is the disbelief often expressed on Stripper Web of the experiences posted by customers on this board. I believe the disbelief is genuine -- but I also know that I, for one, am not lying or exaggerating. Maybe we're all just living in different, parallel universes.
__________________________________________________ _______
* As one stripper said to me after I made a self-deprecating remark, "For in here, you're the gold standard." [Smiley indicating recognition of the back-handedness of that "compliment"]

Katrine
01-06-2005, 11:17 AM
Rath, don't forget that there are as many differences in the strippers on this board as in your clubs. We:

-Come from different geographic areas where mileage differs.
-Some girls work at clean clubs, some work at dirty clubs. I don't think that being an upscale gown club makes a club clean though, even if its the illusion.

-Several of the girls are new to dancing and still live in that ivory tower.
-Several of the girls are veteran dancers from the 90's, and many don't even dance anymore, and havn't since clubs have begun to shift towards the sleazy.


-No one here honestly talks about how much money they make, and that is understandable. But I can assure you that less than 5% of our SW members are making over $500 a day on average just airdancing. Maybe they did in Atlanta or NY in 1996, but not now......

So, thats that....

Rath
01-06-2005, 12:05 PM
Thanks, Katrine. Of course, you're 100% right in everything you say.

The only thing I have to say (which isn't meant to disagree with you in any way, but only as a point of local fact) is that in my years of going to strip clubs in New York City, I've only seen ONE, maybe TWO, "clean" clubs (and all that means, of course, is that you have to see the girls outside to, um, "do things").

Katrine
01-06-2005, 01:48 PM
Right, I think takeout is available at any club, that doesn't count to me, because its a seperate venue. A guy can pick up a hooker in a restaurant, nightclub, walmart, etc.....

Not all guys will look for takeout and not all guys will be able to find it. Unlike our not so dearly departed LauraLove on the pink site, I would NOT turn in a customer to management for proposing OTC, even if he wasn't tipping. BUT, if he were jerking himself off while I danced for him in a NON-HOUSTON club, you'd better believe he's get booted....

So, its not that simple. How many contingencies did I just state above?

I think I could have worded the "going to sleaze" line better. You can only do in-club extras if there is there is a place to do it. Stage-only clubs and clubs with an open floor layout and bright lights make it difficult. I think the first time I went to a SC I was 16, so it was around 93-94. The advent of these private VIP rooms makes extras so easy, and they didn't have them when I started going to and working at clubs.

But I only have one geographic area to base this on, Texas. So we might not be discussing the same exact issue.

I know its a sleazy sex industry because I ran into an old friend and colleage a few minutes ago on the street, and he asked me what I've been up to, and I felt such a huge sense of shame because he knew I was dancing in 98. At that moment, it felt pathetic that I still am doing this while he has his dream advertising job. THAT is the sleaze factor, I felt like an incomplete human being..... :(

Rath
01-06-2005, 03:46 PM
This is gonna go pretty far afield of this thread's topic. So I'll apologize to the mods at the outset.


Right, I think takeout is available at any club, that doesn't count to me, because its a seperate venue. A guy can pick up a hooker in a restaurant, nightclub, walmart, etc.....

Although I'm sure you were just fucking with me again (damn that "with"!), I take mild offense at your use of the word "hooker". I know from your recent post to Moneywise about someone named (I think) "Ms. J" that you agree that there are lots of strippers who only "date" (for money) a few customers who they know well and "like" (or at least are very comfortable with). The fact that they accept those customers' kindness (as you put it in your Moneywise post) doesn't make them "hookers." (This only matters, really, insofar as "hooker" is a pejorative term -- although from the guy's perspective, "dating" like this is really a VERY different experience from seeing a prostitute.)


Not all guys will look for takeout and not all guys will be able to find it. Unlike our not so dearly departed LauraLove on the pink site, I would NOT turn in a customer to management for proposing OTC, even if he wasn't tipping. BUT, if he were jerking himself off while I danced for him in a NON-HOUSTON club, you'd better believe he's get booted....

I've learned better than to comment on Stripper Web threads here. So all I'll say is that to me, jerking off during a dance is a whole lot different from propositioning a stripper. Other than that I do one and not the other, why do I think that? Anybody?


I think I could have worded the "going to sleaze" line better. You can only do in-club extras if there is there is a place to do it. Stage-only clubs and clubs with an open floor layout and bright lights make it difficult. I think the first time I went to a SC I was 16, so it was around 93-94. The advent of these private VIP rooms makes extras so easy, and they didn't have them when I started going to and working at clubs.

Good point. I think the fundamental change occurred when clubs changed from having only stage dancing to having one-on-one dances. It was then that strippers changed from being what you could honestly call "entertainers" to being sex workers (although at that point at a very low level). VIP rooms, I think, sort of necessarily followed.


I know its a sleazy sex industry because I ran into an old friend and colleage a few minutes ago on the street, and he asked me what I've been up to, and I felt such a huge sense of shame because he knew I was dancing in 98. At that moment, it felt pathetic that I still am doing this while he has his dream advertising job. THAT is the sleaze factor, I felt like an incomplete human being..... :(

Great paragraph. And you know what? It's even sort of on-point in this thread.

SportsWriter2
01-06-2005, 03:48 PM
I know its a sleazy sex industry because I ran into an old friend and colleage a few minutes ago on the street, and he asked me what I've been up to, and I felt such a huge sense of shame because he knew I was dancing in 98. At that moment, it felt pathetic that I still am doing this while he has his dream advertising job. THAT is the sleaze factor, I felt like an incomplete human being..... :(
I know a doctor who's retiring early with the feeling that he has accomplished nothing constructive in health care. I see professional friends burning out or just barely holding on. Lots of people don't feel complete anymore. :-\

Jenny
01-07-2005, 12:30 AM
I'm interested in your politely-expressed skepticism, because one thing that has always interested me is the disbelief often expressed on Stripper Web of the experiences posted by customers on this board. I believe the disbelief is genuine -- but I also know that I, for one, am not lying or exaggerating. Maybe we're all just living in different, parallel universes.

Okay - just want to make clear, that this is not a principle on my part - I am perfectly willing to believe that a lot of strippers are willing to fuck the customers for money. For enough money, I think there is just about a completely open market. I am just saying, that there is a matter of fact here, and that is that girls get stretched out after having sex, it is highly visible and obvious, and if they show their pussy afterwards everyone would know. I have personally only seen this a couple of times, so I am reasonably sure that unless the girls and customers have impeccable timing (and I don't think most girls in my club could competently boil an egg) it isn't happening. Actually, technically, I could probably get away with it, because I don't spread. So. Food for thought. Anyway. This is just one of those situations where I am going to trust my experience over yours.
Also, sweetie. I take for granted that dancers lie about their earnings. Because they do. They lie about what they do with customers for their earnings. Customers lie about what they do with other dancers. ("Really? That's what all the other girls are doing? At half price? Well, gosh. Do you think I ought to do that too?") It is not specifically about extras, it is a fairly general skepticism.


I know its a sleazy sex industry because I ran into an old friend and colleage a few minutes ago on the street, and he asked me what I've been up to, and I felt such a huge sense of shame because he knew I was dancing in 98. At that moment, it felt pathetic that I still am doing this while he has his dream advertising job. THAT is the sleaze factor, I felt like an incomplete human being..... :(
Baby, you just make me want to cry. Put up a new emoticon, quick. That is exactly how I felt my first night back at work. I had a little meltdown. I think that feeling is fairly normal - I mean, do you ever wonder why "the adults" didn't move on, didn't find real jobs, or start something else? Am I making this worse? Sorry, sorry. Bad night, I'm projecting.

Rath
01-07-2005, 08:33 AM
Also, sweetie. I take for granted that dancers lie about their earnings. Because they do. They lie about what they do with customers for their earnings. Customers lie about what they do with other dancers. ("Really? That's what all the other girls are doing? At half price? Well, gosh. Do you think I ought to do that too?") It is not specifically about extras, it is a fairly general skepticism.

You're right to feel that way in general. Certainly, inside a strip club, there's good reason to take EVERYTHING EVERYBODY says with a grain of salt. But this is an anonymous discussion board. Why would someone like me come onto a board like this and lie about this stuff to people he's probably never gonna meet?

Rath
01-07-2005, 09:09 AM
I know a doctor who's retiring early with the feeling that he has accomplished nothing constructive in health care. I see professional friends burning out or just barely holding on. Lots of people don't feel complete anymore. :-\

I think that by coddling strippers you're actually being unfair to them here.

You can get burnt out doing health care, but at least doctors are doing something that isn't socially disreputable. They can actually tell their parents what it is they do for a living. And at least it's possible to maintain a lifetime career as a doctor if you can take it (unlike strippers, who have a limited shelf life whether they burn out or not). And at least practicing medicine doesn't require either a lot of dishonest grifting or a lot of unwanted physical intimacy with strangers (OK, I'm not counting prostate exams) if you want to make a good living at it.

I think the burden strippers bear is enormous. I hope this won't sound patronizing or presumptuous, but for her own sake, I hope Kat is able to get out of the business, and into something with a future, soon.

Jenny
01-07-2005, 09:46 AM
You're right to feel that way in general. Certainly, inside a strip club, there's good reason to take EVERYTHING EVERYBODY says with a grain of salt. But this is an anonymous discussion board. Why would someone like me come onto a board like this and lie about this stuff to people he's probably never gonna meet?

Well, I don't know, sweetie, I'm sure you have your reasons. Seriously - there is all sorts of skepticism about claims made here by dancers - why are they trying to impress you? I don't know, it's a mystery (Me, I don't even try to impress my customers. I just insult them a lot, and then try to convince them it was funny. I've had a fair amount of success just telling them: "It was funny." You know how most people just do what they're told? Same thing, but different). Okay, seriously. People come on the internet and lie for all sorts of weird reasons. Maybe you would feel bad if you were the only guy here who couldn't make strippers have sex with him? Asking me to work out the disturbed mental functioning of self professed strip club junkies is asking a bit much, don't you think?

Rath
01-07-2005, 10:06 AM
(Me, I don't even try to impress my customers. I just insult them a lot, and then try to convince them it was funny. . . . )

Jenny, the money you could make from me if you lived in New York . . . .

Rath
01-07-2005, 10:15 AM
Asking me to work out the disturbed mental functioning of self professed strip club junkies is asking a bit much, don't you think?

I thought that was, like, your job.

Jenny
01-07-2005, 10:19 AM
And here I've been thinking that my job was to have unprotected sex (anal, of course, to avoid pregnancy) in the back room. I'm so naive.

Rath
01-07-2005, 10:22 AM
First, you're supposed to work out our disturbed mental functionings. THEN you're supposed to have unprotected anal sex with us in the back room.

Jenny
01-07-2005, 10:25 AM
You know, I hope nobody here is from Toronto. I'm just painting a bulls eye on myself with these kinds of posts. Anyway, this explains my bad night last night. I was skipping right to the anal sex, without the disturbed mental functioning. Tonight, I shall do better.

Rath
01-07-2005, 10:27 AM
Glad you're finding this board helpful.

mr_punk
01-09-2005, 09:35 PM
I spent some time objecting to the idea of "telling the dancer what to do" as being kind of disrespectful. I think I might change my mind. I had a very bossy customer a few days ago, and I think I kind of liked him. I mean, if nothing else it completely relieved me of the need to ... well, think about anything at all. No guess work. You definitely know he enjoyed it. And he was pretty polite about the whole thing.see? it's not so bad after all. you humored him and things worked out well. now..turn around, bend over and show me your ass......please.


Asking me to work out the disturbed mental functioning of self professed strip club junkies is asking a bit much, don't you think?absolutely, anyone who reads, posts or lurks on this PMB is probably psychologically suspect. but hey, if you ever decide to become a shrink. this would be a good place to drum up some business.


I think that by coddling strippers you're actually being unfair to them here.oh, don't be too hard on him. he can't help it. a lot of guys around here think they're helping when they gratuitously commiserate (even with a text-based woman) simply because she's wears a g-string to work and as a result.....


I think the burden strippers bear is enormous. I hope this won't sound patronizing or presumptuous, but for her own sake, I hope Kat is able to get out of the business, and into something with a future, soon.you rarely hear comments like the one above. in the end, you're really not doing the other party any favors. you just make them even more accustomed to hearing the other kind of remarks.

mr_punk
01-09-2005, 09:47 PM
The fact that they accept those customers' kindness (as you put it in your FBR post) doesn't make them "hookers." (This only matters, really, insofar as "hooker" is a pejorative term -- although from the guy's perspective, "dating" like this is really a VERY different experience from seeing a prostitute.)yeah, i always find that comment amusing when it comes from either dancers or customers. their idea of a "hooker" in a sc seems to be derived from the idea of a straight sex-for-money deal or some cop show on tv. granted, you do have those strippers who practically come to work with a mattress strapped to their back. however, even with those types of strippers there is still a considerable difference between the two, generally speaking.

Jenny
01-10-2005, 09:34 AM
Glad you're finding this board helpful.
Would you believe that I worked through the psychological issues of my customers, held them while they cried and I'm still broke? Screw it, I'm going back to jacking their wallets while I have their pants down.


see? it's not so bad after all. you humored him and things worked out well. now..turn around, bend over and show me your ass......please.
Um, okay. Really. I'm doing it right now. Now give me twenty bucks. Anyway, thank god you guys are here because now I know - just do what I'm told and everything will be fine.

Rath
01-13-2005, 09:26 AM
I had sex with this woman (for the first time:* it was very sweet) in a VIP room in a nude club I go to last night.

In the interests of science, I stuck around to see what she would do during her next stage set.

To my relief, she kept her panties on.

The reason I was relieved is that I had come up with an alternative hypothesis that I was afraid I'd see borne out: that I'm so tiny I make no perceptible difference.
________________________________________________
* OK, wize guys, I mean for the first time with this particular woman.

Rath
01-13-2005, 09:31 AM
Good point. I think the fundamental change occurred when clubs changed from having only stage dancing to having one-on-one dances. It was then that strippers changed from being what you could honestly call "entertainers" to being sex workers (although at that point at a very low level). VIP rooms, I think, sort of necessarily followed.

I've come across the first history of this development I've ever seen. It's something I've always been curious about, since it predates my involvement with strip clubs. Of course, I have no idea if what it says is true.

Anyway, the following is an excerpt from an article called "Lap Victory", by David Steinberg, in the September 8, 2004 issue of the SF Weekly:




Lap dancing came to San Francisco in 1980 when Jim and Artie Mitchell decided to have dancers at their O'Farrell Theatre sit, nude, on the laps of guys in the audience, for tips. The innovation put a whole new face on sexual entertainment in the city. Suddenly, for a $1 tip, guys in the audience could sit with, roll around with, and (to some ill-defined extent) touch the nude bodies of their revered fantasy objects. The "fourth wall" of theater -- the imaginary barrier through which an audience sees the action of a play -- had been torn down. Fantasy and reality were one.

The Mitchell brothers didn't invent lap dancing. That distinction goes to New York's Melody Theater, which pioneered the idea of strip shows with audience participation, both on- and offstage, during the 1970s. But when the Mitchell brothers brought lap dancing to their extravagant San Francisco sex-show palace, the idea took off as it never had in New York.

It wasn't long before the Market Street Cinema copied the O'Farrell's new form, followed by many of the city's other strip clubs. As is so often the case, the rest of the country was alert to what was happening sexually in San Francisco. Within a decade, lap dancing had established itself from coast to coast as a new, often predominant, form of sexual entertainment.

As substantial tips for lap dances supplanted wages and stage tips as the core of dancers' income, San Francisco club owners realized they could stop paying dancers wages -- and proceeded to do just that. "Our dancers work entirely for tips," announcers proclaimed over club loudspeakers, encouraging the audience to fill the salary gap by being generous with the women who were wriggling on patrons' laps. What else was transpiring between customers and dancers varied widely -- from club to club, dancer to dancer, seat location to seat location, and mayoral administration to mayoral administration. In the early 1990s, the clubs began charging dancers "stage fees" -- fees dancers paid the clubs for each shift they worked.

Rath
01-18-2005, 08:23 AM
I had sex with this woman (for the first time:* it was very sweet) in a VIP room in a nude club I go to last night.

In the interests of science, I stuck around to see what she would do during her next stage set.

To my relief, she kept her panties on.

The reason I was relieved is that I had come up with an alternative hypothesis that I was afraid I'd see borne out: that I'm so tiny I make no perceptible difference.
________________________________________________
* OK, wize guys, I mean for the first time with this particular woman.

Last night:

Same experiment. Different woman. Same result.

Moneywise
01-18-2005, 08:35 AM
Shame on you. There's no sex in the Champagne room. ;)

MW

Jenny
01-18-2005, 10:34 AM
Alright. I'm in NY in february - I will go and make my own observations. And if I don't see girls putting out, I am going to point my finger and call you a big, fat liar.

So what club was this?