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mr_punk
11-19-2004, 08:03 PM
i posted a article from the L.A weekly on hostess clubs. her personal issues with the sub-culture aside. for me, there was a were some statements that put me on another train of thought:


Often, after being selected for a dance, I was examined like a racehorse: toes, teeth, breast firmness and shape, length of gams, etc. Judgments of my beauty and my body would flow copiously from the callous lips of my benefactor --- usually an overweight, underendowed, balding, boring, disreputable creep. Paying a woman to be nice to you in this world becomes a license to demoralize and conquer.

Both women and men are transformed by these places. Men are sized up according a to their wallet size.

The dance halls cater to the cult of beauty, wealth and materialism, which destroys an individual's normal, healthy sense of what it means to be valued and accepted. In its place, the club makes human worth a commodity and gives approval a dollar value. my first thought in reply was, "yes and ?". BTW, her view isn't an unusual one. i've read statements of a similar nature from both customers and dancers. however, and at the risk of sounding Gordon Gekkoesque. objectification in a sc is good (or it isn't necessarily such a bad thing). sometimes, i think the indignation over the act is about as sincere as the NFL's outrage over the ABC's cross promotion skit before MNF.

obviously, that sort of behavior isn't tolerated or encouraged outside of a sc and can lead to a civil suit. OTOH, that type of behavior is tolerated and encouraged inside of a sc. i don't think too many customers would be willing to go to a sc that features strippers wearing flannel nightgowns, birkenstocks and reciting poetry.

speaking strictly from a customer perspective, i will pick a dancer strictly on the basis of looks and will continue to buy dances strictly on the basis of mileage. any other criteria is strictly icing on the cake and not an absolute necessity. i like a dancer with nice tits, legs or a great ass that looks like it was carved by the hand of god. i don't mind clubs where dancers hustle the customers hard. i don't mind the "wanna dance" routine. i don't mind a dancer who's main objective is to dig very deep into my tiproll. so, i ask you. is the objectification of men or women in a sc just plain wrong or is it just the inherent nature of the beast?

IACali
11-19-2004, 08:53 PM
ROTFLMAO at your sig line, mr punk.


love
kali

Adina
11-20-2004, 02:40 AM
so, i ask you. is the objectification of men or women in a sc just plain wrong or is it just the inherent nature of the beast?
Why the sudden crisis of conscience? I didn't know you had one ;D

SportsWriter2
11-20-2004, 06:07 PM
Objectification has its relative merits, as when a new dancer says, "I have a lot more confidence in myself now. My last boyfriend always said no one else would ever want me. He put down every part of me. Now guys tell me they like my boobs and everything."

It reminds me of the line, "Been down so long it seems like up to me."

Adina
11-20-2004, 06:43 PM
what puzzles me is the comments and hand-wringing over the subject in cases where it's not warranted.
Well let's see, you also started a thread entitled "The Pain of Sex Work" and "I Hate Strippers." Who is doing the hand wringing?

doc-catfish
11-21-2004, 08:37 AM
I don't see why "objectification" has gotten the bad rap that it has. Men and women have been doing it to each other since the beginning of time. For all its alleged problems, it tends to keep the species populated, (well that and a little testosterone).

We all objectify, and get objectified. Get used to it. A lot worse shit can happen.

mr_punk
11-21-2004, 11:27 AM
Well let's see, you also started a thread entitled "The Pain of Sex Work" and "I Hate Strippers." Who is doing the hand wringing?after all the time i spent being your BOB. you have the nerve to ask me that question. did you fall asleep during our pillow talks afterwards? ;D i did say i was scruples-impaired. so, don't mistake schadenfreude with any sense of concern on my part. frankly, i like watching PL crash and burn after foolishly dropping a wad on strippers because she whispered a few sweet nothings in his ear. it's an effective training tool. it's also a great source of amusement. besides...presidential elections only come around once every 4 years. now, where's my popcorn?

Casual Observer
11-21-2004, 10:43 PM
Regarding objectification, I have learned to live by a simple rule:

The only thing women hate more than being a sexual object is not being a sexual object.

Doesn't mean I have to be a prick, but I'm not going to apologize for having a Y chromosome. I did that for a long time.

evan_essence
11-23-2004, 07:15 AM
i don't think too many customers would be willing to go to a sc that features strippers wearing flannel nightgowns, birkenstocks and reciting poetry. Oh no! You mean a girl will lower her Objectification Quotient with you boys if she gets comfy on stage and launches into her interpretion of Edgar Lee Masters' Spoon River Anthology (http://www.bartleby.com/84/index1.html)? /:O

Russian Sonia

I, born in Weimar
Of a mother who was French
And German father, a most learned professor,
Orphaned at fourteen years,
Became a dancer, known as Russian Sonia,
All up and down the boulevards of Paris,
Mistress betimes of sundry dukes and counts,
And later of poor artists and of poets.
At forty years, passée, I sought New York
And met old Patrick Hummer on the boat,
Red-faced and hale, though turned his sixtieth year,
Returning after having sold a ship-load
Of cattle in the German city, Hamburg.
He brought me to Spoon River and we lived here
For twenty years—they thought that we were married!
This oak tree near me is the favorite haunt
Of blue jays chattering, chattering all the day.
And why not? for my very dust is laughing
For thinking of the humorous thing called life.

mr_punk
11-24-2004, 08:31 AM
:sleep: :sleep: wake me up when she stops talking and strips off the nightgown. :)

evan_essence
11-26-2004, 01:49 AM
:sleep: :sleep: wake me up when she stops talking and strips off the nightgown. :)Ouch! LOL. Okay, snoozers make poor tippers so the poetry's out. But a transition from quasi-frumpy to ultra-slinky might still have some potential.

Darcy Hawthorne
11-29-2004, 03:23 PM
Being objectified in a strip club doesn't really bother me. I like to keep my personal and professional lives separate. So if a customer looks at me and all he sees is a nice pair of tits I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Jenny
11-29-2004, 08:08 PM
I have actually said to customers "well, come on, objectify me already." But I was kidding. I don't know that I wring my hands over it, but I think there tends to be some widespread misunderstanding - objectification is not the same as thinking someone is pretty. Or very pretty. Or really hot. (By the way, all ye who downcry the sex appeal of the nightie - you have never seen my roommate in flannel nightgown reciting poetry. Actually I've never seen her reciting poetry. Reciting parts of her thesis. It's pretty fucking hot. She just gets so excited about it). Objectification has something to do with dehumanizing people, which isn't nice. E.g. once there was a guy in a bar who made constant and degrading comments about the girl on stage, and when I remonstrated he said that he paid to get in and he didn't like looking at fat ugly girls, and since he was the customer he could do what he wanted. Now obviously he is the customer, obviously he doesn't have to like how she looks, but the exchange of money does not render this girl (or any girl) a piece a meat in a window. She still can hear you - or him (she's like a piece of meat with ears). THAT is objectification. Although what I find most interesting about the original quote is that it does not meet with my general experience. I've had relatively few guys criticize me (when I was younger I would spend vast amounts of time trying, very nicely, to EXPLAIN why it wasn't nice to say mean things about people.) and the main reason I make money is because guys are NOT primarily interested in looks (alas, my ass does not look like it was carved by god), but who think I'm funny, or weird or like my music, or like redheads (that one is also objectification by the way - because we are more than the colour of our hair) or who are looking for a girl who will have anal sex in the VIP.



I'm kidding, geez.

mr_punk
11-29-2004, 11:24 PM
I don't know that I wring my hands over it, but I think there tends to be some widespread misunderstanding - objectification is not the same as thinking someone is pretty.well, it's nice to see you're not from the mackinnon/dworkin school of thought on the subject. :)


Objectification has something to do with dehumanizing people, which isn't nice. E.g. once there was a guy in a bar who made constant and degrading comments about the girl on stage, and when I remonstrated he said that he paid to get in and he didn't like looking at fat ugly girls, and since he was the customer he could do what he wanted.is that an example of objectification or is that just an example of bad manners? frankly, i'm sure plenty of what i do in a sc would be considered dehumanizing by, oddly enough, other PLs or strippers. for example, if i'm getting an LD and i say to the stripper, "turn around, bend over and spread your cheeks. so, i can get a good look at your ass.". obviously, i'll insert a "please" or "thank you" in there somewhere just like dear ol' mom taught me and nor does she have to comply with my request. of course, if she doesn't comply with my request or if she doesn't have another trick up her sleeve to keep me in my seat. i think it's safe to say that it will be my final dance. :D


the main reason I make money is because guys are NOT primarily interested in looks (alas, my ass does not look like it was carved by god), but who think I'm funny, or weird or like my music, or like redheads (that one is also objectification by the way - because we are more than the colour of our hair).sure, objectification doesn't necessarily involve physical looks. some guys need a little bit more than a hot looking broad in a sc. however, it doesn't mean he's isn't objectifying her any less because he thinks she's funny, witty or intelligent. usually, it just means she's a good actress who doing a fine job of appealing to some image the customer has in his head. it's like a form of mental masturbation and the stripper is the lube.


Although what I find most interesting about the original quote is that it does not meet with my general experience.if you read the whole article. you can see that this woman had issues with her means of employment. she goes on about how she was "mislead" about the business, the lure of easy money, blah,blah, emotional damage, blah,blah. she must have been quite a boner killer in the clubs.

SportsWriter2
11-30-2004, 06:33 AM
frankly, i'm sure plenty of what i do in a sc would be considered dehumanizing by, oddly enough, other PLs or strippers. for example, if i'm getting an LD and i say to the stripper, "turn around, bend over and spread your cheeks. so, i can get a good look at your ass.". obviously, i'll insert a "please" or "thank you" in there somewhere just like dear ol' mom taught me and nor does she have to comply with my request. of course, if she doesn't comply with my request or if she doesn't have another trick up her sleeve to keep me in my seat. i think it's safe to say that it will be my final dance. :D You'd actually do that? Me, I'd start with something cuter. If she says, "I love it when you tell me what to do," I'd go with "good girl" and "look at you" rather than "please" and "thank-you." :P

Jenny
11-30-2004, 08:28 PM
well, it's nice to see you're not from the mackinnon/dworkin school of thought on the subject. :) [\QUOTE]

You what is interesting about the Dworkin school of thought? I have heard some extremely antifeminist men (because being a feminist is like being a vegetarian; you can tell people all day that you don't care about their eating habits and they still find it amusing to pelt you with meat) make the same arguments in stronger terms (albeit for the opposite aim - by defining all sex as rape they are seeking to justify rape kind of thing) and still denigrate her ideas. But I digress. And despite your little smiley I doubt you'd be interested in an extended discussion of separatist feminist theory.

[QUOTE=mr_punk]is that an example of objectification or is that just an example of bad manners? frankly, i'm sure plenty of what i do in a sc would be considered dehumanizing by, oddly enough, other PLs or strippers. for example, if i'm getting an LD and i say to the stripper, "turn around, bend over and spread your cheeks. so, i can get a good look at your ass.".
Well that's both. If you are implying that I found that particularly offensive because it exhibited bad manners well yeah, that guy was particularly rude.

And dude - I mean really. I wonder that anyone ever dances for you at all with that attitude. It's not the fact that you want to look at her ass, or even the fact that you are rude. It's more like - well, just me, personally, I hate being told what to do. Like when I'm on stage and a guy yells out "Take it off" I say back "Don't tell me what to do. Now I'm putting something back on just to spite you."

But really, your definition of objectification seems really vague - like you are applying the term to anyone that LIKES anyone. And eeewww.


if you read the whole article. I didn't read the whole article. Just your quotation. Regardless, I stand by my position that guys (those who tell you to turn around and spread your ass cheeks notwithstanding. Although - funny story - I had a guy give me that specific request in those exact words back when I first started dancing. Was that you?) in strip clubs are generally politer and more respectful than guys in normal bars.

SportsWriter2
11-30-2004, 09:00 PM
And dude - I mean really. I wonder that anyone ever dances for you at all with that attitude. It's not the fact that you want to look at her ass, or even the fact that you are rude. It's more like - well, just me, personally, I hate being told what to do. Jenny, I think you're onto Mr P's game. :)

Some dancers LOVE being told what to do if they think the guy CARES about them. What I can't figure out is how Mr P convinces anyone that he cares.

yoda57us
12-01-2004, 06:57 AM
....And then there are the dancers who just simply want our money and will humor us to get it.

devilkitty
12-03-2004, 01:35 PM
This thing goes both ways, I was born very poor and grew up that way. I have worked very hard as a waitress for 6 years and it has gotten me nowhere , And is not anywhere enough to even think about paying for a college education. I am a bright girl, who wants so much more in life and the only way I can acheive my dreams is too strip. I am sorry but the objectification is nothing compared to a life of hardship and poverty. I have enrolled in school and am currently working a day job in a legal/real estate office , so be what it may it has definitly given me a step up in the world

mr_punk
12-03-2004, 07:12 PM
Well that's both. If you are implying that I found that particularly offensive because it exhibited bad manners well yeah, that guy was particularly rude..

But really, your definition of objectification seems really vague - like you are applying the term to anyone that LIKES anyone..so, you took offense not only to the content (fat ugly girls,etc) of his message, but the manner in which he expressed it. if that's the case, i can see where we differ. you see, i didn't have a problem with the content of his message just the manner in which he expressed it. frankly, i've walked into sc and wasn't very impressed by the immediate talent and thought to myself, "yeesh, who hired the skank squad? business must be bad if the owner needs the stage fees that badly.".



I wonder that anyone ever dances for you at all with that attitude.
oh, i do just fine. contrary to the conventional sc wisdom, i've found that being one of the biggest assholes in the westen hemisphere has absolutely no impact on my scing. in fact, i've noticed that there are certain mitigating factors which can neutralize the hostility of any dancer. here are a few of them:

1)a money clip full of new crispy bills in large denominations

2)a half a kilo of coke.

3)an unemployed bass player of a local heavy metal band who needs to borrow a stripper's, hopefully fully insured, car for a couple of weeks to drive his band to a gig 2 blocks down the block from the sc.

4)an ex-convict fresh out of the pen on parole who needs a place to hide out for a while until the heat dies down from that pesky armed robbery investigation.

5)the owner of a store that specializes in the sale of ferrets, musical instruments and stripper shoes.



It's not the fact that you want to look at her ass, or even the fact that you are rude. It's more like - well, just me, personally, I hate being told what to do..

so, don't do it. look, it's not a problem for me and you're probably not alone in your opinion. i can understand how a stripper might misinterpret a request for an order or a demand. i can understand how a stripper might think she gives a great lap dance and believe she instinctively knows what every customer likes. i can understand how short-sighted strippers are prefectly willing to blow continued sales by refusing to perform an act that she is perfectly willing to perform of her own accord. i understand completely. well, not really. after all, who can really understand flakey stripper logic?


....And then there are the dancers who just simply want our money and will humor us to get it..exactly, yoda. no dancer has to comply with my simple request. i can't command her to do anything. however, she better come up with something that I THINK is an equally entertaining substitute. otherwise, the dancer that doesn't humor me in some way is a boring dancer. i don't give boring dancers the opportunity to dig deep into my tiproll.

i don't go to sc with the intent of being bored and i can't see myself (well, maybe if i had a stroke or a brain tumor) paying someone repeatedly to bore me even further. besides, that position is already taken by my shrink. it's nothing personal, BTW. it's just the way i do business. however, there are plenty of rubes in a sc without a clue who are willing to pay for that sort of thing. a dancer should have no problem finding them just like i can find the dancer who can give me exactly what i want.



I had a guy give me that specific request in those exact words back when I first started dancing. Was that you?maybe...was he sitting in a HMS (high-mileage seat) with a penlight strapped over his ear and a lubricated finger? if he did...well, that certainly sounds like me.



Regardless, I stand by my position that guys in strip clubs are generally politer and more respectful than guys in normal bars.ov vey, don't get me started on what i think of the average PL. i don't disagree with you. however, the average guy in a bar is probably a little more honest with himself about what he wants than the average PL in a sc.

Jenny
12-05-2004, 03:25 PM
"frankly, i've walked into sc and wasn't very impressed by the immediate talent and thought to myself, "yeesh, who hired the skank squad? business must be bad if the owner needs the stage fees that badly.".

Yes, but see, you THOUGHT, didn't say it. I've worked with some girls who were so ugly that they would seriously catch my attention on the street - like if she walked by me I would "Holy fuck, is she ever ugly!" I remember one girl in particular who had the ugliest vagina I have ever seen. It looked like an infected bullet wound. Fact remains that her being in a strip and the exchange of money (or indeed, more aptly, the POTENTIAL exchange of money) does not render her nonhuman, and therefore unentitled to the basic rights and courtesies usually accorded to ... well, you know, humans. So I obviously might THINK negative comments, but would never, EVER walk up to her and say "Jesus Christ, but your vagina is hideous! Have you had that thing looked at?" Because the girl is a stripper does not make her a piece of meat. Meat does not have feelings. Or ears. You can say what you want about meat, and it doesn't mind. People, however, (regardless of occupation) do.

1)a money clip full of new crispy bills in large denominations
2)a half a kilo of coke.
3)an unemployed bass player of a local heavy metal band who needs to borrow a stripper's, hopefully fully insured, car for a couple of weeks to drive his band to a gig 2 blocks down the block from the sc.
4)an ex-convict fresh out of the pen on parole who needs a place to hide out for a while until the heat dies down from that pesky armed robbery investigation.
5)the owner of a store that specializes in the sale of ferrets, musical instruments and stripper shoes.

I have never done drugs in my life (and I'm too old to start now), so your coke would have no appeal to me personally. I recently finished a relationship that was pretty much the entirety of my adult life - and wasn't with someone unemployed or a base player. For #4, I don't actually know what you are talking about. Are YOU the armed robber? Or what? Same with #5. Do you sell ferrets? Because that is objectifying them. Finally, the potent #1 - true, all dancers, me included, will put up with a lot more for a lot more. But, really, from you it would have to be a LOT more. I've walked away from obnoxious customers in the past (and here is your crazy dancer logic) because I can. I can find someone else to spend money (possibly several someone's to get the same amount, it's true, but I'm willing to put in the effort to avoid meanies. And, me I've noticed that those who talk about how much they spend essentially to come in and degrade the girls, and how worth it it is for the girls to tolerate their shit, usually are not the big spended they think they are - I'm sure you are, but it wouldn't be a good bet, overall) and not talk to me/treat me like trash. (Don't even bother inserting a trash comment. I've already anticipated, so it's like I've already read it).

"ov vey, don't get me started on what i think of the average PL. i don't disagree with you. however, the average guy in a bar is probably a little more honest with himself about what he wants than the average PL in a sc."
I think it is interesting here, how we simply disagree in our assessment of what makes a pathetic loser. I don't think that a guy who spends money because he thinks I'm charming, and without expecting your kind of mileage is pathetic. I like it when guys think I'm charming. I made friends when I worked on a drink commission who spent what I am sure you would think is a ridiculous amount of money on nothing but my company that I still email. Yes, I never slept with most of them, but I definitely have more respect and affection for them than the guys who were like "I'll buy a champagne room if I get to eat you out". I kind of think that the guys who don't come for the proverbial "good time" (we have a lot of proverbs between us, don't we?), but instead just have to come in and pay women to touch them - even those who aren't necessarily looking for extensive contact - are the more pathetic of the bunch.

"maybe...was he sitting in a HMS (high-mileage seat) with a penlight strapped over his ear and a lubricated finger? if he did...well, that certainly sounds like me. "

Okay, I am going to say this with affection, because I seriously don't think anyone said it to you enough growing up.


ahem.


EEEEWWWW.

And I don't remember a penlight.

mr_punk
12-10-2004, 06:46 PM
"Fact remains that her being in a strip and the exchange of money (or indeed, more aptly, the POTENTIAL exchange of money) does not render her nonhuman, and therefore unentitled to the basic rights and courtesies usually accorded to ... well, you know, humans.sure.


So I obviously might THINK negative comments, but would never, EVER walk up to her and say "Jesus Christ, but your vagina is hideous! Have you had that thing looked at?"look, i don't disagree with you here either. i guess it wasn't clear, but like i mentioned previously. it wasn't the content of his message (IOW, his thoughts) that offended me, but the manner in which he in which expressed it. IOW, i agree that he didn't have to walk up and tell her that.


Because the girl is a stripper does not make her a piece of meat. Meat does not have feelings. Or ears. You can say what you want about meat, and it doesn't mind. People, however, (regardless of occupation) do."a piece of meat"? well, that's the reason why i started this thread on objectification in the first place. like i said, i don't think objectification is necessarily bad in a sc. you see, i don't mind treating a stripper like a piece of meat in a sc as long as i have the meat's permission. now, that doesn't mean i'm entitled to treat her as less than human.

however, i'm not going to wring my hands about it because i asked some stripper to bend over and show me her ass. i'm not going to lose any sleep over the implications because i asked a stripper to turn around so i can slap her ass. the requests are hardly negative and she's perfectly free to decline. futhermore, she's perfectly entitled to feel insulted by my simple request and leave if she wishes. i just think it's a bit melodramatic (or at least naive) when you take into consideration the context (including the type of club) of the work location.

on the flip side, i have no problem about possibly being thought of as a walking ATM by a dancer. i have no problem with the hard hustle or the "wanna dance" routine. frankly, that really doesn't concern me because, ultimately, she can't make a withdrawal without my permission.


I have never done drugs in my lifeslow up. it's caustic sarcasm and it's directed at the idea (absurd, IMHO) that attitude somehow has affect on the ability to buy a dance in a sc. anyway, i'm going to start putting emoticons in my post. so, you'll know when i'm not being serious.


I've walked away from obnoxious customers in the past (and here is your crazy dancer logic) because I can. I can find someone else to spend money (possibly several someone's to get the same amount, it's true, but I'm willing to put in the effort to avoid meanies.a "meanie"? you're calling me a "meanie"? ok, am i supposed to be insulted or should i laugh? is this the canadian version of a tounge lashing ;D ? seriously...so leave. in fact, i would encourage you to leave ASAP. like i said, it not a dictatorship. i can't command a dancer to do anything. i'm not going to be offended, argue with you about it or try to change your mind. however, if you think leaving is supposed act as some sort of punitive lesson or that i'm supposed to wheedle, cajole or beg for another chance. think again. PLs do that sort of thing and that's a bit lame don't you think? like i said, if a stripper can't humor me. she's a boring stripper. so, why would i want her to hang around?


I think it is interesting here, how we simply disagree in our assessment of what makes a pathetic loser. I don't think that a guy who spends money because he thinks I'm charming, and without expecting your kind of mileage is pathetic.bzzztt..excuse me SCJ shoppers, but i need an ego check in aisle 4..an ego check in aisle 4, please. oh and would FBR please walk over to the lost and found department. we have a lost stripper looking for you. thank you :) . what disagreement? i didn't get that memo. first of all, what makes you think that i disagree with your last sentence? secondly, any comments i made about a PL had more to do with his lack of honesty/ignorance about what he wants out of a sc experience. thirdly, it had nothing to do with mileage, your being charming or lack thereof. in fact, it really doesn't pertain to you at all. finally, and i say this with mutual affection. get over yourself, it's not really about you. :)


I kind of think that the guys who don't come for the proverbial "good time" (we have a lot of proverbs between us, don't we?), but instead just have to come in and pay women to touch them - even those who aren't necessarily looking for extensive contact - are the more pathetic of the bunch.a "good time" as defined by whom? you or me? well, if i'm paying for it. i think i can define it any way i wish. i'm perfectly willing to let you define your own. so, why begrudge me of my fun? you know, i don't take strippers to task when she hustles some sucker out of his last dollar. i figure, the sucker needs to become a smarter consumer.

incidentally, that's what i find most annoying about most of the strippers (and their male flunkies) that come down here. i understand they want to present some sort of image to the rubes. whatever. that's fine, but i don't want any part of it. especially, when they come down here and mistakenly confuse me with one of those schlemiels upstairs who can be easily influenced by some form of stripper social arm twisting. i find that to be a bit hubristic.

however, there seems to be some confusion here. so, i'm going to clear it up for you as best i can. i'm going to re-post a topic on this subject for future reference. it must have been lost in one of the previous software/server upgrades from long ago because i couldn't find the original thread. anyway, the information contains nothing that i haven't stated in the past. so, i'm going to direct you to this thread (http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42805) to show you what i mean when i say PL.

Okay, I am going to say this with affection, because I seriously don't think anyone said it to you enough growing up.yeah, i can feel the love. at least, i know how to use a quote button. unless, it was your intent to give me a headache. now, who's being the meanie? /:O ;)

Jenny
12-12-2004, 01:39 PM
i don't mind treating a stripper like a piece of meat in a sc as long as i have the meat's permission. now, that doesn't mean i'm entitled to treat her as less than human. Now I'm curious. Do you actually ask her if she minds being treated like the aforementioned meat before you do it? Like BEFORE you say "bend over and let me smack your ass" do you say "Hey, do you mind if I degrade you a little if I pay you enough?" Or do you just do it, and then say if she's offended she can walk away. Because that's different from getting the meat's permission.



however, i'm not going to wring my hands about it because i asked some stripper to bend over and show me her ass. Gosh, I find that surprising. I really thought you had a great deal of concern and lost sleep over the matter. You know, based on what you've said in the past.



a "meanie"? you're calling me a "meanie"? ok, am i supposed to be insulted or should i laugh? is this the canadian version of a tounge lashing ;D ? Well, I was rather hoping you would consider yourself thoroughly chastised, yes.


like i said, it not a dictatorship. i can't command a dancer to do anything. I don't know what keeps giving you the impression that I think it is a dictatorship. I know you have no power over the dancer; I know she can leave. I am not arguing that you give up your nefarious scheme to enslave dancer with your evil hypnotic device (although really. I think we would all like you to give up that nefarious scheme). I am arguing that basic courtesy and respect has a place even in strip clubs, even for dancers and that the exchange of money does not alter that. I also realize, before you point it out, that I cannot obligate you, in any sense to be nice.

Although. Once I am running the universe, you will be in SO much trouble. Then, everyone will have to be nice to dancers, ALL THE TIME.



it really doesn't pertain to you at all. finally, and i say this with mutual affection. get over yourself, it's not really about you. :) Oh, sweetie. Sometimes you are just so naive. Dancers are self absorbed. Therefore, it is naturally, ALWAYS about me. What are you thinking? Seriously though, since I was talking about what constituted a pathetic loser in the universe I call my mind, it kind of is about me.


i understand they want to present some sort of image to the rubes. What is a rube? and what is this image? I pretty openly say that I take off my clothes and let men touch me for money (this is part of the reason I sort of wonder why anyone ever wants to go out with me. I'm like "Dude - go to church and meet a nice girl. What the fuck are you thinking? - and yeah, I know - It's all about me.). Just because it does not normally require lubricant hardly makes it particularly uplifting or glamourous. Or have I misunderstood something? Thank you for the thread. I will read it sometime.


yeah, i can feel the love. Hey, I SAID it was with affection. I think that ought to be good enough. It is unreasonable to ask me to mean EVERYTHING I say.


i know how to use a quote buttonYou're a genius!
And although you can't tell, because I'm not actually talking, I would so strongly emphasize the "genius" that it would have three syllables.
Like "gen-i-ous".

SportsWriter2
12-12-2004, 03:12 PM
Synopsis: Mr P tried to wear Jenny down by going deep with eight quotes and rebuttals, but Jenny came back with eight quotes and rebuttals of her own. Jenny needs fewer hours to make her money, so time is on her side. Plus her comments reflect a beguiling sense of humor. :)

Mr P's "turn around, bend over and spread your cheeks. so, i can get a good look at your ass" sounds like a cop in a ghetto drug bust. You can get so much more saying, "Cute ass, wanna show it to me?" :O

Lilith
12-12-2004, 04:36 PM
I agree with MrP and Jenny, though they think they are in disagreement. As Punk illustrated in the title, the objectifying (walking ATMs, fembots) goes both ways in the strip club. IMO, it's a natural method of streamlining the business transaction and completely fine... when done the right way. The subtle touch is necessary here. Do it, but you should never be obvious about it. The club is a quasi-social setting and making it clear that you're only interested in one shallow aspect of a person is, paradoxically and yet inherently, offensive. Chalk it up to one more complication of doing what is strictly business in what is a seemingly social setting.

Incidentally I find nothing wrong with Punk's cited request to bend over and spread cheeks, dependent on how said request was phrased. It's rather like all the other blatant requests we get; it all depends on how much charm is applied, or whether the requester is merely trying to be a sad little dickhead who is too cheap for escort fees. My answer would still be no but the request itself isn't likely to offend me, just the phrasing.

FBR
12-12-2004, 04:41 PM
hahahaha Jenny has potential but Im sure MrP will retort with a dozen quotes and responses.

Gotta love SCJ ;D

FBR

SportsWriter2
12-12-2004, 06:12 PM
I agree with MrP and Jenny, though they think they are in disagreement. As Punk illustrated in the title, the objectifying (walking ATMs, fembots) goes both ways in the strip club. IMO, it's a natural method of streamlining the business transaction and completely fine... when done the right way. The subtle touch is necessary here. Do it, but you should never be obvious about it. The club is a quasi-social setting and making it clear that you're only interested in one shallow aspect of a person is, paradoxically and yet inherently, offensive. Chalk it up to one more complication of doing what is strictly business in what is a seemingly social setting. Mr P explores the boundaries of what dancers consider too shallow and offensive, while Jenny defines Mr P's behavior as too shallow and offensive for her tastes.

Lilith, I would say "mainly business" rather than "strictly business," but I think your explanation is right on the mark.

mr_punk
12-12-2004, 07:01 PM
Now I'm curious. Do you actually ask her if she minds being treated like the aforementioned meat before you do it? Like BEFORE you say "bend over and let me smack your ass" do you say "Hey, do you mind if I degrade you a little if I pay you enough?" Or do you just do it, and then say if she's offended she can walk away. Because that's different from getting the meat's permission."actually, i've done both. the path i take depends on how well of a rapport i think i have with the stripper. frankly, i can't think of a incident where a stripper has walked off because she was so offended by my actions or requests. so, either they don't have a problem with my actions or..and don't laugh...i'm a real charming guy. ok..you can stop laughing now. ok, get up off the floor that's enough...i said stop...

for the most part,IMO, words like degradation, dehumanization and objectification don't really apply to a sc. unless, you're being forced to work at such places. unless, you happen to agree with the opinion of larger society (perhaps not canadian society, but definitely american society) that stripping is the very embodiment of such values. in that case, why continue to work at such a place?

futhermore, i'm not taking about the rude or bad behavior displayed in your example. the guy was just being an obnoxious jerk to the stripper..nothing more. if that was a crime. i would be serving a quadruple life sentence right now. you know, i've seen plenty of strippers act like completely obnoxious and rabid biatches towards customers, but the last thing that crosses my mind is that the stripper is degrading or dehumanization the whipped customer. the guy just needs to grow a backbone.


I am arguing that basic courtesy and respect has a place even in strip clubs, even for dancers and that the exchange of money does not alter that. I also realize, before you point it out, that I cannot obligate you, in any sense to be nice.sure. this is like the second or third time that i agreed with you on this point.


Dancers are self absorbed. Therefore, it is naturally, ALWAYS about me. What are you thinking?now, i didn't say that ALL dancers are self-absorbed. in fact, when i made that statement i just had you in mind. OTOH, if you had said "all dancers are flakey". well, who am i to disagree.. ;)


What is a rube? and what is this image? what? i can't believe that you have the nerve to ask me that question. did you read that link i provided for you to read? i provided it for you to read since you seem to be under some confusion about what i think makes a PL. however, you didn't even bother, did you? you know, sometimes i don't even think i know you. i give, i give and i give and you take and you take and you take. i give so much that i feel like i'm a giving tree sometimes. i can't talk to you anymore at this moment. i'm feeling very hurt, unappreciated and undervalued. right now, i need to be alone so i can reassess our relationship. does anyone have any chamomile tea? :'( :)



The club is a quasi-social setting and making it clear that you're only interested in one shallow aspect of a person is, paradoxically and yet inherently, offensive. Chalk it up to one more complication of doing what is strictly business in what is a seemingly social setting.a complication? that's a very generous description, lilith. i would call such a melodramatic response a good recipe for a fool's paradise. one of the reasons strippers and customers are so thin-skinned [even here on this MB] about this issue or other controversial issues is that they become much too accustomed to being treated like simple children in the sc. while they may see it as a sign of respect. frankly, i find it condesending.

Amber76
12-13-2004, 04:31 PM
On a lighter side...

The funniest thing to me is when a really fat, ugly guy (yes, there are those types out there! lol) is giving me the up and down eye trying to figure out if I'm worth his $20! I somehow find alot of humor in this.

Heehee

I find lots of humor in this line of work! :)

Luv,
Amber

Jenny
12-13-2004, 07:10 PM
frankly, i can't think of a incident where a stripper has walked off because she was so offended by my actions or requests. so, either they don't have a problem with my actions or..and don't laugh...i'm a real charming guy. ok..you can stop laughing now. ok, get up off the floor that's enough...i said stop...Not that I don't think you are very charming, but do you maybe seek out dancers that are pathetic and desperate, and will do anything for money (and alright, go ahead, make your commments about desparate strippers.... now) and the desperation is maybe why they don't walk away, as opposed to simply not being offended? I mean, I don't want to sound like I think you seek out desperate.... oh, no that is pretty much what I wanted to sound like. Anyway, seriously. We should probably just agree that I am a prude and you are mean and let this poor, bleeding, suffering thread die.


if that was a crime. i would be serving a quadruple life sentence right now See? Mean.


i've seen plenty of strippers act like completely obnoxious and rabid biatches towards customers.
Wow. It's like you know me.


sure. this is like the second or third time that i agreed with you on this point.
And why is it, then, that you just never SOUND like you are agreeing with me? (or... read? Type like? You get my point)


what? i can't believe that you have the nerve to ask me that question. did you read that link i provided for you to read? i provided it for you to read since you seem to be under some confusion about what i think makes a PL. however, you didn't even bother, did you? you know, sometimes i don't even think i know you. i give, i give and i give and you take and you take and you take. i give so much that i feel like i'm a giving tree sometimes. i can't talk to you anymore at this moment. i'm feeling very hurt, unappreciated and undervalued. right now, i need to be alone so i can reassess our relationship. does anyone have any chamomile tea? :'( :) A giving tree, eh? You can stop your emoticonny weeping. I read your thread. So the "image" in question is that the more money you spend the better time you have? That is something that seems to hold true in... everywhere and for everything. I mean, isn't is generally acknowledged that nice things are more expensive? Or have I been labouring under a misapprehension? (Cause, you know, I am Canadian. And flakey.) I mean, we (the club, the girls in the club, you know) are saying "Hey it's a fun party" and you're saying "No, you should carefully comparison shop" which to me doesn't seem as much fun. Maybe it's because I am not yet a filthy old man, but going up to every girl in the club looking for the one skag who will let me eat her pussy for half price doesn't seem fun to me. It seems like work. I don't think you need a specific goal to go out and hang, or go out and party, or just go out. I think you need a specific goal when you are performing a task. But, you know, to each her own - go ahead and eat out the skag, if that's you idea of a good time.

Jenny
12-13-2004, 07:11 PM
ooh. I just thought. No offence to any girl reading this who does let guys eat her out for half price. I was just making a kind of gross joke. I don't really think you're a skag.

Katrine
12-13-2004, 07:48 PM
ooh. I just thought. No offence to any girl reading this who does let guys eat her out for half price. I was just making a kind of gross joke. I don't really think you're a skag.
I do. And a cheap one at that. If you're gonna be a skag, be a high-price skag doggonit! Quit undercutting us other skags!}:D

aggieed
12-14-2004, 02:05 AM
...but going up to every girl in the club looking for the one skag who will let me eat her pussy for half price doesn't seem fun to me.
Actually I wouldn't pay at all. Eating pussy is part of the tip, after all. Why would I pay a girl for ME to pleasure HER? No point in that really, IMO.

Now a half-priced BJ...now we're talking! LOL!

As for it being work, yeah, it can be...but hot damn can it be worth it sometimes!

I'm sorry, am I off-topic...

Amber76
12-14-2004, 06:57 PM
Actually I wouldn't pay at all. Eating pussy is part of the tip, after all. Why would I pay a girl for ME to pleasure HER? No point in that really, IMO.

Now a half-priced BJ...now we're talking! LOL!

As for it being work, yeah, it can be...but hot damn can it be worth it sometimes!

I'm sorry, am I off-topic...
Hee hee
Aggieed...
Who says you're any good at eating girls out? ;) Maybe they are just amusing you and actually working pretending that you are simply pleasing them!!!! lol
Just something to think about! ;)

Luv,
Amber

FBR
12-14-2004, 07:25 PM
Hee hee
Aggieed...
Who says you're any good at eating girls out? ;) Maybe they are just amusing you and actually working pretending that you are simply pleasing them!!!! lol
Just something to think about! ;)

Luv,
Amber
Sounds like the Twilight Zone to me. Lets ask Rod Serling

FBR

Katrine
12-14-2004, 07:51 PM
Many men will pay to pleasure a woman, or at least get the ego trip from thinking he is pleasuring her. About every guy I've ever been with, for free or pay, has absolutely begged to take care of me.

Almost no man knows how to do it right anyway, but I have to pretend I like your dirty PL mouths on my sweet genitals ;)

Not liking to do it is a sure tale sign of mysogyny to me.....


Actually I wouldn't pay at all. Eating pussy is part of the tip, after all. Why would I pay a girl for ME to pleasure HER? No point in that really, IMO.

Now a half-priced BJ...now we're talking! LOL!

As for it being work, yeah, it can be...but hot damn can it be worth it sometimes!

I'm sorry, am I off-topic...

SportsWriter2
12-14-2004, 08:54 PM
Almost no man knows how to do it right anyway, but I have to pretend I like your dirty PL mouths on my sweet genitals ;)

Not liking to do it is a sure tale sign of mysogyny to me..... Sweet I love, but I will confess to fishogyny. :P

aggieed
12-15-2004, 12:42 AM
Many men will pay to pleasure a woman, or at least get the ego trip from thinking he is pleasuring her.
I'm aware of that...hell, I know guys who'll pay $100 a pop just to finger a girl. ::)

But like I said, it's not for me...

By the way, I never said I was any good at it, I just said that it's part of the tip...i.e. I'm not going to pay a dancer just to do that nor would I pay "extra" to do it in addition to whatever it is she's doing for me.

mr_punk
12-15-2004, 04:16 PM
Not that I don't think you are very charming, but do you maybe seek out dancers that are pathetic and desperate, and will do anything for money (and alright, go ahead, make your commments about desparate strippers.... now) and the desperation is maybe why they don't walk away, as opposed to simply not being offended?well, i can see that you haven't met a loaded question you didn't like. now, why would you assume they are pathetic and desperate women who will do anything for money? is it because you don't like the way they do business? or is it because don't like being told what to do. so, if another woman isn't offended in the least by actions which you consider to be "degrading" that makes her pathetic and desperate? if that's the case, i can tell that you're off to a very good start. if you're still planning to run the universe. i'm sure a healthy dose of megalomania never hurt any omnipotent being.


And why is it, then, that you just never SOUND like you are agreeing with me?well, if you don't believe me, believe lilith. she's right, it's all in the approach. futhermore, her post also serves as a good explanation as to why strippers are so notoriously YMMV. as a result, it does pays to have some idea of what kind of stripper you have in front of you. it does pay to present the right image to a stripper. it does pay to establish a rapport with the stripper. sometimes, i can get away with quite a bit upon my initial meeting with a stripper. sometimes, i have to soften her up a bit. in both cases, i just take what the dancers give me. in the end, depending on the stripper, a customer unzipping his pants and freeing willy can be just as an effective method as being polite when it comes to getting what he wants.


I mean, I don't want to sound like I think you seek out desperate.... oh, no that is pretty much what I wanted to sound like. Anyway, seriously. We should probably just agree that I am a prude and you are mean and let this poor, bleeding, suffering thread die.no, i don't think you're a prude. every stripper is entitled to her own limitations in a sc. however, i don't have to pay for them and to expect me to pay for those limitations is impinging upon my own limitations. however, i'm willing to negotiate in good faith and find a happy medium providing the other party is willing to do the same. i'm not trying to be hardcore, but you do understand my position, don't you?


So the "image" in question is that the more money you spend the better time you have? That is something that seems to hold true in... everywhere and for everything. I mean, isn't is generally acknowledged that nice things are more expensive? Or have I been labouring under a misapprehension?my only point was that customers need to see beyond the image and slick promises and see it for what it truly is: a business that's wants to sell you something. obviously, strippers see it as a business. it's not all about hanging out and partying with customers for them. so, why shouldn't the customer see it as a business as well? look, going to a sc is fine as long as that customer keeps in mind that if he doesn't realize that it's a business. he does so at his own peril. it's not the stripper fault if she takes him for a free ride.

anyway, to answer your question. in this case, i think it depends on who's doing the selling. for example, diamonds can be expensive, but it's a myth that most diamonds are as rare, valuable or precious (outside of sentimential value) as most people are lead to believe by the diamond industry. so, who would you rather trust? a clever advertising campaign or your own instincts?


I mean, we (the club, the girls in the club, you know) are saying "Hey it's a fun party" and you're saying "No, you should carefully comparison shop" which to me doesn't seem as much fun.duh, it is your livelihood. i wouldn't expect you to say otherwise. it would be akin to expecting a used car salesman to tell me about the crappy transmission. i wouldn't trust him, either. i would take the car to a independent mechanic before signing on the dotted line. if i didn't, i'm pretty sure they call that person a sucker in the used car biz.

so, why should i give a stripper not only my trust, but my money as well? that's a bit naive don't you think? i'd like to think that if the positions were reversed. you would take a similar prudent course of action. on second thought, that was a silly remark. after all, we're talking about flakey strippers, right? look, i understand it's in the stripper's best interests to have as many suckers as possible foolishly spending money in the sc. however, i don't think it's going to exactly ruin the industry. if you would refrain from blowing smoke up my ass or the very least you could do is use a little lube before you shove the tailpipe up my tuchis and start blowing.


Maybe it's because I am not yet a filthy old man, but going up to every girl in the club looking for the one skag who will let me eat her pussy for half price doesn't seem fun to me. It seems like work.i suppose, like any other endeavor. you get out of it exactly what you put into it. there is a learning curve involved. so, in order to achieve a goal you need to have a strategy. sometimes, that strategy requires you to be pragmatic, disciplined and a touch of healthy skepticism or paranoia wouldn't hurt either. after a while, it isn't work anymore. you begin to separate the players from the pretenders just on pure instinct and experience. after a while, your networking in the club not only gains you an option A, but a B, C, D ,E and F as well. it's about minimizing your risk (ie: not being taken for a free ride by a stripper) while maximizing your reward.


I don't think you need a specific goal to go out and hang, or go out and party, or just go out. I think you need a specific goal when you are performing a task. well, this might seem strange, but i hang out with people i know and trust. i party with people i know and trust. i may not have any goals when i hang out with people i know and trust, but the people that i know and trust don't try to hustle me. call me crazy, but this is the very reason that i don't hang out and party with the cashier at costco when buying my PL pros or with the car salesman who just sold me a new car. it's also the very reason why i don't trust any stripper i just met. i don't know her, but for some strange reason, they always think they know me.

mr_punk
12-15-2004, 04:22 PM
Many men will pay to pleasure a woman, or at least get the ego trip from thinking he is pleasuring her. About every guy I've ever been with, for free or pay, has absolutely begged to take care of meimagine that...an idiot in a sc :dunce: . of course, there are plenty of idiots in the sc who will pay just to eat the pink taco for the very reason you mentioned. hell, there are even more idiots who'll pay even more money for lame LD because they think the stripper is turned on. now, that's not to say that i've haven't eaten stripper pussy or played amateur gynecologist with a stripper for that matter. however, i'm not paying a stripper only to munch the carpet and the only thing i get out of it is a sore jaw.


Almost no man knows how to do it right anyway, but I have to pretend I like your dirty PL mouths on my sweet genitalswell, that works both ways, kat. IMO, a woman needs to have two qualities in order to become an accomplished fellatrix: the combination of an almost fanatical enthusiasm towards cocksucking and an array of cocksucking skill sets.

aggieed
12-15-2004, 05:03 PM
Maybe it's because I am not yet a filthy old man, but going up to every girl in the club looking for the one skag who will let me eat her pussy for half price doesn't seem fun to me.
By the way, I'm not quite familiar with the word "skag". Did you mean skank?

Just to keep things in perspective, realize that as you would call a girl looking for half-priced DATY a "skag/skank", there are people in this world who would call a stripper a "skag/skank" just for taking off her clothes for money. But then there are people in this world who consider strippers, in terms of the adult entertainment industry, to be amateur prostitutes...just a little nudge and they become full fledged professionals...sometimes it just takes the right time, place, and money.

Jenny
12-15-2004, 10:49 PM
Aah! There's too much! Mention eating out strippers and suddenly everyone has an opinion.


well, i can see that you haven't met a loaded question you didn't like.Well, I've met one or two. But I always love my own. Just because, you know, they're mine.


now, why would you assume they are pathetic and desperate women who will do anything for money? is it because you don't like the way they do business? or is it because don't like being told what to do. so, if another woman isn't offended in the least by actions which you consider to be "degrading" that makes her pathetic and desperate? if that's the case, i can tell that you're off to a very good start. if you're still planning to run the universe. i'm sure a healthy dose of megalomania never hurt any omnipotent being.Well, I evidently have a very healthy dose. Okay, I'm not sure if we have discussed this, but "mileage" in a strip club doesn't offend me. I am not even going to get into the things I have let guys do to me for money, and far be it for me to judge other women for what they do. (Although I have to put in a story here, because the women I work with, do not share my laissez faire strippy attitude; so I was checking my lipstick in the mirror, and a girl asked me what I was doing, and I (thinking I was... okay I don't know what I was thinking) said "I think I just rubbed all my lipstick off on that guy's cock." I think I was obviously joking, and any of my friends, and pretty much any guy would laughed, but I swear the way this girl was looking at me, I thought she was going to fillet me and eat my kidneys. I just thought I would share. I don't have any dancer friends, so this is my entire outlet. I am now going to stop making excuses and move on). Moreover, I am not of the opinion that it really matters to other dancers income. I've met girls who perform damn near full service and still walk out with 100 a night. However, I have difficulty believing that most women who CAN make good money without putting up with what I would call "difficult" customers would put up with them for the hell of it. So yeah. It is because I don't like being told what to do, but I dislike how you make it sound so unreasonable.


well, if you don't believe me, believe lilith. she's right, it's all in the approach. futhermore, her post also serves as a good explanation as to why strippers are so notoriously YMMV.What's a YMMV?



my only point was that customers need to see beyond the image and slick promises and see it for what it truly is: a business that's wants to sell you something. obviously, strippers see it as a business. it's not all about hanging out and partying with customers for them.Dude, you are not in my club. I work with some dumb girls. But just out of curiousity, where do these customers who DON'T realize that we're trying to sell them something live? Because I want some like that.


duh, it is your livelihood. i wouldn't expect you to say otherwise. it would be akin to expecting a used car salesman to tell me about the crappy transmission.Okay. Sweetie. You do realize that I am not trying to sell you clean lapdances over the internet right? That I am not, in fact, trying to sell you anything, and the likelihood that I will ever, at any time, EVER be in a position to sell you anything is pretty much nil, and that I have no reason to mislead you about anything right? Because I don't think that analogy is very good. And really, tell me the truth - would this really be better if I used lube?



it's about minimizing your risk (ie: not being taken for a free ride by a stripper) while maximizing your reward. Okay. So to you, finding the girl who will let you eat her pussy at half price is a good time. I think it is nice that you have a hobby. There is one who will do it in my club at $10 a song (Canadian!) If you come in, I'll hook you up. But that means you do have to be polite.


well, this might seem strange, but i hang out with people i know and trust. i party with people i know and trust. i may not have any goals when i hang out with people i know and trust, but the people that i know and trust don't try to hustle me. Okay, fine then. Actually, yeah. I got nothing.


Just to keep things in perspective, realize that as you would call a girl looking for half-priced DATY a "skag/skank", there are people in this world who would call a stripper a "skag/skank" just for taking off her clothes for money. And I would agree with them. Seriously, I sort of immediately apologized to the hypothetical girl who lets guys eat her out at half price, and told her I didn't mean it and I was not really judging her.

mr_punk
12-17-2004, 08:58 PM
Okay, I'm not sure if we have discussed this, but "mileage" in a strip club doesn't offend me.thanks for sharing, but i didn't get the impression that you were offended. in fact, i didn't mention it in the part you quoted because i didn't think it was particularly relevant. i was just curious if the fact that you hate being told what to do played a role in your characterization as others being pathetic and desperate. anyway, thanks for answering.


"I think I just rubbed all my lipstick off on that guy's cock." I think I was obviously joking, and any of my friends, and pretty much any guy would laughed, but I swear the way this girl was looking at me, I thought she was going to fillet me and eat my kidneys. I just thought I would share. I don't have any dancer friends, so this is my entire outlet..well, your twisted sense of humor about extras might keep you from making dancer friends around here. if you think that dancer was thin-skinned just hang around here more often. some of the people here are so thin-skinned they would die of exsanguination from a paper cut.



However, I have difficulty believing that most women who CAN make good money without putting up with what I would call "difficult" customers would put up with them for the hell of it..a "difficult" customer? are you talking about a customer who doesn't extend basic courtesy and respect? or are you talking about another type of "difficult" customer? for example, you hate being told what to do. so, if you think that a customer is telling you what to do. does that make him a "difficult" customer? if that's the case, i can think of plenty of strippers who do put up with them. i don't know if that makes them pathetic and desperate, but i do know they don't like leaving money on the table for another stripper to pick-up.


So yeah. It is because I don't like being told what to do, but I dislike how you make it sound so unreasonable.look, i've met plenty of dancers who feel the same way as you do and i've bought plenty of dances from them. whether or not, a dancer prefers to do things in her own way or if she prefers to let a customer take control isn't much of a concern to me. OTOH, i'm very concerned about the quality of the product (ie: the LD).

in my experience, most if not all dancers like to believe they give great dances. in my experience, most if not all dancers have told (in one form or another) me they give great dances. while that might be great for boosting her own ego and serve as an effective infomercial. it's just a lot of SS and hot air to me. i'm hardly impressed and talk alone doesn't move me to buy more dances. in short, if a dancer wants me to buy more dances. don't tell me what you can do....show me...prove it.



But just out of curiousity, where do these customers who DON'T realize that we're trying to sell them something live? Because I want some like that.it's too bad you didn't get to meet Moneywise before he became a reformed PL. ;) i don't know if you visited the U.S. , but down here PLs are as common and as widespread as cockroaches and most of them can't seem to figure out that that when a stripper says that he's "special" customer. she means that he "special" in the financial sense not a romantic one. trust me, you can make a career off these idiots.


So to you, finding the girl who will let you eat her pussy at half price is a good time.finding the stripper is the easy part. however, do you really think paying a stripper just to eat her snatch is my idea of a "fun party"? are you high? if i actually have to pay her to do some work. i might as well stay at home with the SO. i think someone's been drinking a wee bit too much maple syrup. nevertheless, if you throw in some feeding, a little DP, HJ, FS and top it all off with a BBBJNQNS. it's a done deal. actually, that would qualify as a very, very, very, good time. my idea of a bare-bones, no-frills, mere good time would be a better-than-average high mileage lap.


There is one who will do it in my club at $10 a song (Canadian!) If you come in, I'll hook you up. But that means you do have to be polite.have you canadians gone absolutely mad? a whole ten dollars? it sounds kinda rich for my blood, but okay. on second thought, i think the whole being polite thing combined with the ten bucks is going to be a deal killer. unless..you want to make it five bucks, but i get to be impolite in sign langauge. however, she has to bring the lube. i had a slight problem the last time i tried to cross the border with my own lube. you know, someone really needs write a letter to the RCMP about the importance of using lube when conducting a strip search. ouch.

Jenny
12-20-2004, 08:52 PM
What actually constitutes high mileage? I mean I know what I do, but I have no clue what anyone else is doing back there, so I don't know what to compare myself to. Well, in one or two cases, I have my suspicions. But, you know. Nothing concrete.

mr_punk
12-21-2004, 09:40 PM
What actually constitutes high mileage? I mean I know what I do, but I have no clue what anyone else is doing back there, so I don't know what to compare myself to..well, you're not alone. most of the time, strippers don't know exactly what goes on between every customer and a stripper. especially, if you're talking about a sc with large number of girls stacked up like cords of fire wood or a club that has blind spots, nooks,and crannies. additionally, they're too busy hustling to constantly watch anyone. in reality, most of their info comes from a mixture of sensationalized club drama, gossip, DP, blabbermouth PLs looking to score mileage and message boards like this one. futhermore, due to the YMMV effect and DP. strippers don't want other strippers and customers to know exactly what they're doing and many of them are very good at hiding that info from the other parties. i'm sure you know that the level of DP (dancer politics) and drama in a typical sc is just below the hysterical level.

mileage is just a term to describe the base (average) level of contact at a particular sc. it's pretty much what every tom, dick, and harry receives when he comes into the club. obviously, the higher the level of contact a customer receives beyond the base or club average, the higher the level of mileage. on a side note, mileage is different from an extra. an extra is a commonly used term to describe a BJ, HJ, FS, etc.

for example, let's say i go to a club where i can touch everything except the kitty. of course, those conditions would serve as the base mileage. so, what would constitute high mileage without moving into extras territory? well, there's your basic groping and grinding, but that really isn't anything of note. so, with that in mind:

1)"the gyno show" (get your penlights ready): usually this involves a stripper putting her snatch in the customer's face while bending (sometimes with the spreading of her cheeks or lips) over or standing up or some other variation. it can also involve touching the kitty. after all, rules were made to be broken. keep in mind, none of this involves licking or fingering the stripper's pussy, but it sure comes close. }:D

2) "over the mountains and through the woods...": usually this involves a stripper using her boobs. she could pull up your shirt and press them against your chest, blind you stevie wonder style or use them to massage a customer's crotch or wrap willy in a warm cocoon. keep in mind, none of this involves feeding, but it sure comes close. }:D

3)stripper cpr (cardio-penile resuscitation): after a customer hears the latest boner-killing story from a stripper. the stripper has to perform cpr on the customer in order to revive willy. this can involve using any of the techniques above. it can also include using her knees, face, mouth, head, and hands. keep in mind, none of this involves a a HJ (at least not technically), but it sure comes close. }:D

4)i could include other things like kissing, biting, licking etc, but i consider them not worth mentioning.


now, does all of this have to occur the first time i meet a stripper before i consider it a good time? no, but what i'm looking for is an better-than-average in-club dance. on the surface, while this may seem like a simple enough proposition. it just seems that way. like i said, YMMV. what i'm looking for is a reason as to why i should give a dancer my continued patronage. what i'm looking for is a dancer who knows how to get me hard and keep me hard, thereby maintaining my interest and providing a good reason to keep her in mind when i walk into the club again.

OTOH, i'm not looking for a stripper who thinks that the act of her being nude is some kind of huge turn-on nor am i looking for a stripper who performs a tedious, mechanical, scripted routine as if she's thinking about her shopping list. if i wanted to be bored or put to sleep in a sc. i would sit at the stage more often. so, when i find myself more interested in deciphering the lyrics of some atrocious tune playing over the loudspeakers rather than the woman on my lap. i think it's safe to say that i'm not interested in another dance.

in closing, a lot of the stuff i described is pretty commom. some strippers use it in a "bait and switch" fashion as a selling point to entice the suckers to buy another dance. others use it quite liberally. obviously, most strippers like to keep this info hidden not only from other customers due to YMMV. they also want to keep it hidden from other strippers due to DP. in addition, it's important to a lot of strippers that they be thought of as "clean" among their peers and even customers to a lesser extent. it's a sign of respect. so, if no one actually knows for certain (outside of usual club drama) what the other person is doing. they can all look at each other in the dressing room and tell each other practically anything.

whatever...i suppose a "clean" stripper could truly believe that "accidentally" rubbing her boobs, shins, ass and hands over some guys crotch wearing PL pros, sans underwear, is not as stimulating or as "dirty" as an actual HJ. however....if that's the case, i wonder why the PLs are so worried about popping their corks in their pants like adolescent teenages.

oh well, like i said..one of the reasons strippers are so thin-skinned about this issue or other controversial issues is that they are conditioned and accustomed to being treated like simple children in the sc and anything that conflicts with that treatment is disrespectful. i'm sure if people kissed my ass all day. i would consider that a sign of respect also. but hey, like the old saying goes...it's just a fantasy, right? although, i wonder whose fantasy are we talking about....the stripper's or the customer's?


Well, in one or two cases, I have my suspicions. But, you know. Nothing concrete.so, you can see why there's a constant whirlwind of drama at the sc. a suspicion is all you need to start a catfight in a sc.

Jenny
12-21-2004, 11:08 PM
So when you guys are talking about (and for that matter when the girls are talking about) the slutty strippers, all we're really referring to a girl showing you her vagina, and rubbing her body over you? Because, frankly, I'm a little shocked here. I was expecting... something different.

mr_punk
12-22-2004, 08:30 AM
So when you guys are talking about (and for that matter when the girls are talking about) the slutty strippers, all we're really referring to a girl showing you her vagina, and rubbing her body over you?hey, they are not sluts. they're "clean" dancers! there's a big difference in how you make a guy splooge in his pants. at least, that's the popular theory.


Because, frankly, I'm a little shocked here. I was expecting... something different.in what way? in any case, the business may have changed over the years. however, the people really haven't changed at all. a dancer who was performing say, 20 years ago would consider all of the current dancers "dirty" and a stripper dancing 30 years ago would go even further. futhermore, whenever there's been a shift in the business model in this industry. the 'old' strippers who can't or won't adapt to the changes, set-up the lines of demarcation between the 'new' strippers. thus, the burlesque stripper is "cleaner & classier" than the topless dancer who is "cleaner & more beautiful" than the nude dancer (who's just a plain slutty), etc.

one faction claims or tries to persuade the consumers that their "reliable" product is better than the other new "passing fad". all the "for the good of the industry and customers" moral and legal reasoning is nothing new ,either. strippers flashing their pussy used to be a contraversial issue also and it was just a smoke screen for what it's always been about everytime this shift occurs. ultimately, it's all about the dancer's interest in the competition for the customer's money.

xdamage
12-23-2004, 09:15 AM
I could feel the love for humanity coming through and he/she/its respect for the opposite sex. How did she/he/it put it again?

"usually an overweight, underendowed, balding, boring, disreputable creep."

A real saint.

Yea those fucking customers - sizing up dancers based on how they look.

Here is an idea (see what you think). Customers, if you don't like hot looking women lying to you to get your cash don't go to a club. Dancers, if you don't like fat-tiny-weenie-no-hair-boring-losers staring at your hot bods for dollars don't dance. Problem solved.

Jenny
12-23-2004, 12:28 PM
Here is an idea (see what you think). Customers, if you don't like hot looking women lying to you to get your cash don't go to a club. Dancers, if you don't like fat-tiny-weenie-no-hair-boring-losers staring at your hot bods for dollars don't dance. Problem solved.Oh god! That god you're here! Before you said that, we all thought there was some point to the message board, and, you know, CONVERSING about these topics. Thank you for showing us how foolish we have been for not simply accepting and embracing the world the way it is because it is the way it is.

Brilliant!

xdamage
12-23-2004, 12:59 PM
Oh god! That god you're here! Before you said that, we all thought there was some point to the message board, and, you know, CONVERSING about these topics. Thank you for showing us how foolish we have been for not simply accepting and embracing the world the way it is because it is the way it is.

Brilliant!
Really? How cool. You mean no more whining over how fucked up customers and dancers are? No more complaining about it just for the sake of it? Why who knows, maybe we will find some other things to talk about that aren't poor-me oriented.

I see Christmas came early this year.