View Full Version : Sluts and slobs
Itsapose
12-09-2004, 09:50 PM
I say, it's better for the club and the girls, for the club to have stricter policies, and for girls in need of upkeep to stay away until they are in shape.Ya know, I'm about to ask a question that I think is at least partly addressed in some of the other observations posted. If it has been quite directly addressed already, then I must have been focusing on some other aspect of the discussion at that point (a.k.a. had my head up my ass). So here's what I'm still unclear about.
If what you're advocating is better for the club, why isn't management seeing that and hiring accordingly? And when they're not, why aren't marketplace forces rectifying the problem anyway (i.e., those who aren't well received can't make enough money to stay)?
-IAP
Bridgette
12-09-2004, 10:14 PM
Ya know, I'm about to ask a question that I think is at least partly addressed in some of the other observations posted. If it has been quite directly addressed already, then I must have been focusing on some other aspect of the discussion at that point (a.k.a. had my head up my ass). So here's what I'm still unclear about.
If what you're advocating is better for the club, why isn't management seeing that and hiring accordingly? And when they're not, why aren't marketplace forces rectifying the problem anyway (i.e., those who aren't well received can't make enough money to stay)?
-IAP Because strip club owners and managers, being the notoriously BAD businessmen that they are, only see the short term effects of running clubs the way they do. Letting too many girls work tonight benefits the club tonight in the way of extra fees paid by the girls, and benefits the managers tonight in the way of extra tipouts paid by the girls. Then when the girls (because there are too many, and too many who aren't so hot) have a hard time selling dances, it benefits the owners and managers tonight to look the other way while the girls get dirty to sell enough dances to turn a decent profit. The girls and customers pay extra tips for mgmt to look the other way. The club gets the lapdance and vip room cuts, so they're happy.
But while they're busy extorting more and more from the girls, they're unable to see that the quality of customers declines night after night. Upstanding businessmen don't want to be caught in a skanky club, so they stop going, or stop staying as long and spending as much. The slobs see they can get more out of the girls by playing a horse and carrot game with their money, holding out on tips and dance purchases until they get a girl to agree to what they want her to do. Unfortunately the managers don't give a rat's ass and neither do the owners, until a bust happens. Then they'll tighten things up for a couple weeks until the heat dies down, although they NEVER let up on the amount of money they expect from the girls, so as soon as the heat dies down, they let things go right back to bad so the girls can make the money to keep their (owners/mgrs) greedy pockets full and enough in the girls' pockets to keep them coming back to work.
And what do you think they do when business drops? Why, raise fees for the girls of course! Girls get more and more desperate to turn a profit, guys get more and more tight with their money (the few that are left after the big spending nice guys quit coming in), so club "dances" get more and more dirty. And so the cycle continues.
They do not see at all that running the clubs properly would benefit everyone more in the long run, because they're too busy counting what they're making tonight.
yoda57us
12-10-2004, 06:43 AM
If what you're advocating is better for the club, why isn't management seeing that and hiring accordingly? And when they're not, why aren't marketplace forces rectifying the problem anyway (i.e., those who aren't well received can't make enough money to stay)?
-IAPThat's a great question....
Last year one of my favorite club raised their per-dance house fee from $5 to $10 per song. This raised the price for a topless dance from $25 to $30 per song without any additional share going to the dancer-the one getting naked. Did they realize that many customers would curtail the number of dances they did? Of cousre they did. But they also realized that, unless the total number of LD's done was reduced to half of the old average (unlikely), they would make more money. The net result of this was that the girls made less money and the club made more. When girls started to leave, looking for greener pastures as their income went tdown, the clubs hiring policy was relaxed in order to keep as many dancers on the schedule as possible. What you have now is a bunch of so so newbies competing with some very hot (and professional) dancers. There are other threads on this site that talk about what happens next so I won't go into it here.
Strip club owners generaly are not good businessmen. They are lucky enough to be in a business where supply and demand will, at least for the short term, nullify stupid business decisions
SportsWriter2
12-10-2004, 07:22 AM
But while they're busy extorting more and more from the girls, they're unable to see that the quality of customers declines night after night. Upstanding businessmen don't want to be caught in a skanky club, so they stop going, or stop staying as long and spending as much. Bridgette and Yoda, you are so completely right. I see an interesting response to this: upstanding businessmen and their nice girl favorites end up OTC just to talk and hug in a friendly environment. The stress cycle in clubs almost makes you not like sex anymore. :-\
doc-catfish
12-10-2004, 10:14 AM
If what you're advocating is better for the club, why isn't management seeing that and hiring accordingly? And when they're not, why aren't marketplace forces rectifying the problem anyway (i.e., those who aren't well received can't make enough money to stay)?
-IAP
It should be pointed out what's best for the club (its bar operation anyway) and what's best for the dancers who work there aren't always one and the same. Here's an account of a recent experience I had a local club which had recently undergone an "upscaling" (at least decor wise).
http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40555
Although, I'm in total agreement here with others that most SC management would fall on their asses if they tried to pull this kind of chicanery in a mainstream enterprise.
FONDL
12-10-2004, 11:50 AM
A few random responses to the above:
Yoda, I wish I had known that yu were coming to town, I could have shown you around. Did you try Club Risque in Bristol? It one of my favorites and definately a MOR club. For a Or for something really different, everyone should try Show-n-Tell Shobar at least once. And there are a couple of places in nearby NJ that are worth going to.
Business often move toward the middle and it usually turns out to be a mistake. The really efficient mass marketers and the strong nich players are usually the most successful. But what tends to happen is that successful niche players get greedy and try to broaden their appeal which usually fails because it confuses everybody. Succesful businesses identify a target market and create an entire package directed toward it. I don't see many SC's doing that.
One more practical aspect to the fat dancer issue - I'm a little guy and it just isn't much fun being squooshed by a girl who weighs more than I do. So no matter how great her personality is I'mno buying any dances.
Doc-Catfish, that's a really good characterization of clubs. Thanks for sharing.
DeepGreen
12-10-2004, 09:57 PM
In Providence we have a selection: A GC, a dive and a few MOR clubs. Middle of the road clubs try to maintain an image of a GC but look the other way when the occasional (or not so occasional) extras occur. They are a bit less selective in their hiring and not as strict with rules but they don't hire, in their estimation, Ho's.
In a GC you know nothing is gonna happen
In the MOR clubs you think something could happen
In the dive you can line up for HJ's, BJ's and in some cases, FS and take out.
The GC has been around for years and gets most of the publicity but the MOR clubs are much busier. The dive has its share of customers-many of who also go to the MOR clubs.
My theory is that most guys like nice girls, not ho's and not stuck up Barbie dolls.
Being from the Ocean State myself, I have to agree that this is a fairly good characterization. (Perhaps the "dive" is the big pink building?) I might argue that at least one other club in the Renaissance City might be considered a dive, although I agree that most of the more interesting clubs are MOR. The MOR clubs also seem to be a bit more friendly than those in the other two extremes, IMHO.:)
yoda57us
12-11-2004, 06:39 AM
(Perhaps the "dive" is the big pink building?) I might argue that at least one other club in the Renaissance City might be considered a dive, although I agree that most of the more interesting clubs are MOR. The MOR clubs also seem to be a bit more friendly than those in the other two extremes, IMHO.:)
I agree on all counts, though I know a lot of the South American girls at the pink building and they are pretty cool, others in their are down-right scary. There are a couple of shall we say "downtown" clubs that are pretty much off my radar.
Itsapose
12-11-2004, 08:26 AM
Bridgette, yoda, doc: Thanks for tying together those points so succinctly. I see how much the desire for short-term gain - resulting in overstaffing and offering extras - drives the downhill slide. Such short-term gain is a marketplace force exerting its influence, but not necessarily the wise or legal choice to pursue for long-term success.
Great. Now I have visions in my head of Donald Trump saying, "Apex, Mosiac, for this task, you're both going to be running your own strip club. You'll be coordinating the club's dancers and other employees .. er, I mean, independent contractors."
-IAP
yoda57us
12-11-2004, 09:40 AM
Now THAT would be reality television at it's finest!
RedZ28
12-13-2004, 01:29 PM
I think I've been in everything from a four star club to a two star club and without fail my preferred dancers are "nice girls." Whenever I get dances from a "party girl" I just roll with it, sometimes it is a pleasant surprise. As far as ambience, I feel a lot more at home in a three or two star club. I'm there for hotties to dance for me, not because I think all the sculptures on the wall are really cool.
FONDL
12-14-2004, 08:47 AM
I think nearly all us customers on this board agree that we prefer the 2 or 3 star clubs and the nice girls. So where do I find such a place? Most of the 2 and 3 star places that I know of have mostly older sluts working there.
As for the greed issue, sometimes (and maybe nearly always) it's a necessity for a big club. They invest a bundle of mostly borrowed money to move upscale, then they need to take in a lot more just to service the debt. That automatically translates into high prices and a aqueeze on the girls. And they hire as many decent looking girls as they can find which further squeezes the girls. That's why I think a lot of you nice girls would be better off working at one of those 2 or 3 star clubs, then us nice guys could follow you there and we'd all be happier.
CaliDancer
12-15-2004, 12:24 AM
I agree with Brittany on her earlier post :
Quote:
I'm tired of seeing guts, saggy asses, plain faces, and rude girls (ya know,the girls who tell guys "you don't know what you're missing!" when they are turned down)
no offense...not talking about my club but some girls i've seen at other clubs in my city.....oh my god .... i was in awe because i could not figure out how they could hire some of these girls .......
i personally think that if a girl is a plus size and has a pretty face and takes care of herself , it shouldn't be a problem , but some of these girls were just plain disguisting ....mustaches , cellulite , fat spilling out EVERYWHERE...i just thought that some people just shouldn't be allowed to take their clothes off in public after what i saw.....
Originally Posted by MisfitBunnie to Brittany:
"Sorry hunny, you need to deflate that big head of yours and come back down to earth and realize that the average american woman is 5'4 and 150 lbs...that is FAR from "perfect". If every woman had to look perfect to be a stripper then their would definatly be a big shortage of strippers thats for sure."
I think that's exactly why married men go to strip clubs.....to see something more than the "average" 150lbs and up ........
Originally Posted by MisfitBunnie to Brittany:
"If you are so perfect why don't you go be a model or an actress instead of a dancer?"
i myself did modeling for five years , and never thought of being a stripper EVER ( always thought they were low class) and one night i tried out and the cash was just so good that modeling just went to the curb.
FONDL
12-16-2004, 10:05 AM
I think a lot of these clubs make money in spite of themselves. I've been to a lot of clubs that do really dumb things but are fairly busy anyway because they're either the only game in town or they are still better than the competition. So to answer somebody's earlier question, the market place does penalize the club (and some dancers) in that they're not making nearly as much money as they could, but they're still making enough to get by. I know a lot of clubs like that, as I'm sure you all do too. And a lot of girls, who aren't making nearly as much as they might if they were in better shape, still make a whole lot more than they would working at Walmart. In fact it always makes me laugh to read a post where a girl complains that she's only making $2-300 a night, which is 2-3 times what her friends outside the business earn working much longer hours.
SportsWriter2
12-16-2004, 11:02 AM
So to answer somebody's earlier question, the market place does penalize the club (and some dancers) in that they're not making nearly as much money as they could, but they're still making enough to get by. I know a lot of clubs like that, as I'm sure you all do too. And clubs do go out of business because they can't break even. Their "only game in town" status cannot protect them from competition with other forms of adult entertainment. Witness the rise of reality "point of view" porn on the Internet. :-\
yoda57us
12-16-2004, 03:21 PM
I know a lot of clubs like that, as I'm sure you all do too. And a lot of girls, who aren't making nearly as much as they might if they were in better shape, still make a whole lot more than they would working at Walmart. .
Unfortunately, the "more than at Walmart" syndrome is what keeps a lot of women who have no business being strippers parading around in g-strings. Clubs hire these girls to boost their rolls and collect more house fees and we sit through their stage shows hiding our $1's and waiting for the hotties...
Honestly, in my area, the only time SC's close are when they piss off the town or when the property becomes so valuable that the owner takes the money and retires to Florida. I've never seen one close due to lack of business.
FONDL
12-17-2004, 10:34 AM
Yoda, I agree, I never have either. And Sportswriter, I agree with you too that competition from other forms of adult entertainment, made much more readily available by the internet, are hurting the SC business. In fact I've been arguing for some time that I think SC customers are declining and will continue to do so partly for this exact reason. And raising prices the way so many places are doing will only accelerate the trend. That's why you hear so many dancers complaining that business isn't very good. I think the internet is going to kill a lot of businesses including some strip clubs.
yoda57us
12-17-2004, 06:03 PM
The internet has already just about destroyed the adult magazine industry. I think that, as far as SC's go, it will have an effect on the raincoaters to some degree. However, a strip club is a social environment, I don't think internet porn is going to cut in that much. Of course, I'm sure some enterprising geek is at home right now tying to develop a "Virtual Strip Club" site.
FONDL
12-18-2004, 10:33 AM
Yoda, I wasn't thinking so much about internet porn as I was about the increasing number of ladies advertising adult services, such as private dancing or modeling, erotic massage, or full-service escorts, on the internet. I think these services compete directly with strip clubs and are cutting into their business. And many of the ladies doing the adversiting are current or former strippers who are cutting out the club and dealing directly with their clients. I expect to see this trend continue because a lot of ladies are tired of doing all the work and giving half their income to the club, and a lot of customers feel the same.
yoda57us
12-18-2004, 11:36 AM
FONDL: In that sense I agree with you. My personal feeling is that, if you want sex, find an escort and pay for sex. As more women turn to the internet to sell their wares, the guys that are strictly looking for extras in clubs will probably figure out where to better invest their money.
I still feel strongly however that, as a social environment, strip lubs offer something that escort services don't.
SportsWriter2
12-18-2004, 12:33 PM
FONDL and Yoda, I agree in part with both of you. FBR found the perfect blend. I see dancers working fewer shifts and seeing favorite customers OTC. It's a hedged bet. She can still call herself a dancer, and he can think of himself as her friend. They actually like each other AND the social environment of the club.
PLUS, champagne rooms are more intense when you talk about the last OTC encounter and plan the next one. :)
FONDL
12-22-2004, 12:41 PM
Yoda, I too like the social aspect of the club. But I do get tired of paying the club a big chunk of my money. For example, when I see my current favorite I usually end up spending around $300 or so and she ends up with about half of it. I'd rather spend less and see her end up with more. So if she ever suggests that we take our act elsewhere my answer will be a resounding yes. And I really don't care if she wants me to play the role of friend or customer, or maybe both. Just like Sportswriter indicates, I think it would be a perfect blend.
All Good Things
12-22-2004, 10:48 PM
So if she ever suggests that we take our act elsewhere my answer will be a resounding yes.
And then the real drama begins. ::)
My ATF and I made a date that was to start at the club. She dropped by as a customer, motioned to the door, and headed on out. I had a full table running at the time, which means 6 dancers, full drinks and food. I never check out of my table quickly in that case. I was gone. In a flash. Keep a dancer waiting for you on the street? I'm crazy, but not nuts.
I caution you that this is never storybook, though. It's a roller-coaster, and you are just along for the ride.
Advice: Go for it.
All Good Things
12-22-2004, 11:27 PM
I see dancers working fewer shifts and seeing favorite customers OTC. It's a hedged bet. She can still call herself a dancer, and he can think of himself as her friend. They actually like each other AND the social environment of the club.
I need some clarification on this one. Are you suggesting dancers work fewer shifts because of pay for play?
The only OTC for me is real, e.g. friendship or more, but not a commercial relationship. Not pay for play. Respect, friendship, relationship, whatever happens to be in the cards. Maybe nothing. That's fine, too. So I am very careful to protect a dancer's money, privacy, integrity, etc. and put as much control as humanly possible in her hands. This would be the case with any friend, of course, and doubly so given the strange dynamics of SCs.
(I also apologize in advance for these two posts. Ladies, please forgive me. I'm skating along the edge of propriety with these public posts because they will draw out the lurkers and hopeless twits who will be encouraged to hit on dancers endlessly and post inane questions about dating them on the boards. Note to lurkers -- NO, it won't work. Give the dancers all your money, please. Right now. If they want to date you, which almost never happens (they all have boyfriends, duh), they will ask you. In about six months or maybe a year. If you have to ask them, ever, the answer is NO.)
FONDL
12-23-2004, 11:19 AM
I try not to have preconceived notions or expectatons. Whatever happens happens. If I really like a girl, I am willing to be her customer inside the club, I am willing to be her customer outside the club, I am willing to be her friend, or any combination thereof - she's in charge and she's in control. And if I'm willing to give her money inside the club, why shouldn't I be equally willing to do the same outside the club? I became friends with my ATF because when she was thinking of quitting dancing I was her only customer who encouraged her to do so. It would have been hypocrisy at it's worst for me to then turn around and stop giving her money, after I had promised to help her improve her life. I don't understand some poeple's silly rules that say it's OK to help her inside the club but not outside. Sounds dumb to me.
All Good Things
12-23-2004, 11:26 PM
And if I'm willing to give her money inside the club, why shouldn't I be equally willing to do the same outside the club? It would have been hypocrisy at it's worst for me to then turn around and stop giving her money, after I had promised to help her improve her life. I don't understand some poeple's silly rules that say it's OK to help her inside the club but not outside. Sounds dumb to me.
The rules inside the club are different from those outside.
Inside the club, she's working. No question that you take care of her financially there.
Outside the club the rules are reversed. That's why you often see these tests of whether dancers are focused more on the money or more on you. This is what you mean by "silly rules," right? I think there is some wisdom to the idea that the money drive has to disappear if the OTC relationship is "real."
Did you really "promise to help her improve her life?" I've never been able to say something like that without sounding snotty or obnoxious. You may be a much better diplomat than I am. Part of the reason is that I really don't believe it -- if it's just material gain, a bank account and PIN number can accomplish all that without me.
FONDL
12-24-2004, 10:45 AM
TOO (not to be confused with TO of Eagles fame), obviously I overstated my case. In most cases I would agree with you. But I think that there are exceptions and that each relationship and situation is unique. In the particular case that I mentioned, here was a young and very intelligent girl whose family is a disaster and she's dancing and doing drugs because everyone who she knew told her to. But she was smart enough to realize that that wasn't how she wanted to spend her life. She's a very hard worker and highly motivated. But she needed help - she needed a role model, some good advice, and yes some financial assistance. I've provided those things and as a result she's firmly established in a good career, has found a good man who she will probably marry (as opposed to the drug dealer she used to live with), and I've become like a father to her. I'm very proud of what I have helped this girl achieve. I regard it as being one of the major accomplishments of my life. It was worth every penny.
All Good Things
12-24-2004, 04:43 PM
FONDL, nice ending to that story.
OTC takes many forms. It's not always manipulation or greed, pay for play or unreturned phone calls. Sometimes people who like and respect each other actually take care of each other. Imagine that!
Your thoughtful post reminds me that we should also add "kind-hearted mentor" to the list.
FONDL
12-27-2004, 11:26 AM
Thanks TOO. I think it's helpful to keep in mind that every relationship is unique and that friendship can take a great many different forms. And unlike when I was younger, I try to be open to friendship regardless of where it begins. I don't go to clubs looking for friends but I don't exclude the possibility either. I've met some really nice ladies in clubs, including some who were a whole lot nicer than many of the women I've met elsewhere. In fact the only girl who ever tried to take me for a bundle wasn't a dancer at all. As far as I'm concerned, dancers are women who do what everyone else does - they are trying to make a living the best way they know how with the skills that they have. Some are nice people, some aren't, just like anywhere else.
LilRogueVixen
12-27-2004, 06:15 PM
damn I hope I don't fit any of those categories.