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mr_punk
12-21-2004, 10:16 PM
So what you guys call emotional loyalty is basically just a person (well, pretty much a guy) not wanting his extracurricular activities to interfere with his comfortable life. Nice.hey, i thought sarcasm was illegal in canada.


I always thought loyalty was when you had more to gain than lose, and you kept good faith anyway out of affection or respect for the other person. what a nice sentiment. however, people aren't hallmark cards. it not always about a lack of affection or respect for the other person. people change over a period of time and their wants and needs change over a period of time. ironically enough, if they didn't change, a sc would pretty much go out of business for lack of customers.


Plus - just side point - the European men that I know are NOT incredibly comfortable or open about the possibility of their wives cheating on them, discreetly or otherwise. sure. in fact, i'll go even further. in general, many men (european or not) aren't comfortable with the idea of their wives cheating on them. it's a societal norm in many cultures. however, those types of relationships aren't exactly completely, unacceptable, intolerable or frowned upon or even remotely a cause for political impeachment in many european countries compared to the U.S.

SonicBones
12-21-2004, 10:27 PM
I didn't mean that.

I think everyones definition of cheating can possibly be different, I know mine is. But I am an odd duck, so of course it would be.

But I go back to what Jay said.

If something is important to one person, It should be important to the both of you.

Do you think lusting for someone else is cheating? If a dancer rubs up against your bf without the extras, is that cheating?

Is it solely based around being physical or not?
No I don't view that as cheating at all. We're all only human.We all look at others,lust whatever.It's when it goes beyond that I consider it cheating.I.E. having any kind of sex with someone outside of the recogonized relationship {both persons agree it's such}.If you have an understood open relationship then it's not regarded as cheating I suppose.

Jenny
12-21-2004, 11:20 PM
hey, i thought sarcasm was illegal in canada.Dude - we're on the internet, where there are no laws.



what a nice sentiment. however, people aren't hallmark cards. it not always about a lack of affection or respect for the other person. people change over a period of time and their wants and needs change over a period of time. ironically enough, if they didn't change, a sc would pretty much go out of business for lack of customers.I agree that people are not always nice, and do not always live up to themselves (hold on a moment while I weep over my lost relationship) but I don't think that constitutes loyalty of any kind. I think that constitutes being unfaithful, and either being forgiven or not as the case may be. And yes, when one is unfaithful it ALWAYS has something to do with respect and affection for that person to whom one is being unfaithful. When one lets that other person fade long enough, fast enough or hard enough to betray them, that does have something to do with respect and affection - regretting it afterward, or knowing the other person can't find out doesn't change that. If people change that much over time, perhaps this is a good argument for serial monogamy. Okay, I'm going on - my point is that people screwing up being a normal part of relationships does not make screwing up any kind of loyalty.


sure. in fact, i'll go even further. in general, many men (european or not) aren't comfortable with the idea of their wives cheating on them. it's a societal norm in many cultures. however, those types of relationships aren't exactly completely, unacceptable, intolerable or frowned upon or even remotely a cause for political impeachment in many european countries compared to the U.S.I think they would be for women. I mean, maybe not the impreachment thing. But I can't see an Italian man looking the other way while his wife fucks his brother. Or am I misunderstanding here?

bigteninch
12-21-2004, 11:36 PM
doood, were on the internet, there are no laws... lol whoa......

I really don't believe there is a right or wrong for this lusting thing, except what' s right for an individual. I know what's right for me, and I know what I am comfortable with. Obviously, some people really enjoy the multiple aspect of sex, and after all that IS what we are talking about. lust=sexual

My brain does not work like a porno. ...walk into like my insurance agent's office, and say to my self... oh! so Mr so-and-so is not here, how about lifting that skirt and bending over the desk before start banging right on top of it....
nope.... even if the chick is hot, my brain does not work that way.

As an example, same office different receptionist. it's a guy. My mind does not think wow would i like to bang this guy. cause i am not gay AND dont lust like that. BUT some guys might! get it! we are all different. I don't swing - some people do - fine that's cool for them, but don't tell me that it's normal.
There is no normal anymore - Bob Dylan said it best - "Everything is Broken". just kidding, doood, this is the internet! Haha LMAO

bigteninch
12-21-2004, 11:55 PM
Everyone lusts, you can't deny yourself that aspect of human nature. What are you, an aesetic?

Its the action that counts...........
hehe, that's interesting. being ascetic implies self denial. ok denial??? to deny oneself would be something that I agree would be correct when a person lusts.

Like I have friends that say, oh man I can't wait to have a beer. my lady loves her cosmos, but it may be hard to understand that I don't have the slightest interest in drinking. so I am not denying myself. what I am denying myself of is falling for the belief that i must crave or want it. It's like if I was to ask a nun for a blow job, she wouldn't consider it and might have a heart attack. one in five will suck your dick... what kind of reasoning is that - thanks, but no thanks, people can operate on different levels and still relate.

I know what lust is, I experienced it over the weekend for several hours, but I kept my mind on my work and did what I needed to do. can you relate? What I was describing is that if I know I am going home to most f'in terrific sex, my mind is gonna be a whole lot less concerned with getting some. the only reason that the weekend was rough was that I haven't had it for like months.

face it, most guys that go into a SC will bend you right over a table and bang you in the club if they thought they could get away with it. then go home to wives. now, if the wife sucked better dick... why shop around.

bikinigirl04
12-22-2004, 12:10 AM
sonic and rose- i didn't mean you two. i was disagreeing with mrpunk and moneywise... and it all comes down to each individual relationship what is cheating and what's not.
rose i assumed when you said you would be more upset by an emotional relationship than a physical one, you meant if he was falling in love with someone, or getting intimately close to them and keeping the relationship from you? rather than getting drunk and making out (or whatever else)? whereas mrpunk was talking about recognizing an attraction and acting on it over a period of time.

i don't think rose and big ten inch were using the word "lusting" in the same way. rose what you said, see someone go by in the park, thinking they are hot, even briefly imaging sex with them, i would not call that cheating. im not sure about more serious lusting, like tia said it would be over for her. that is another thing that will be different for everyone.

katrine-i have to be honest. i have been a lying sack of shit cheater too. but i wish i could have your attitude! i haven't been able to "don't ask don't tell." everytime i've done it i have felt horrible. i always end up telling on myself. i have struggled with this for a really long time and i definately have issues with it. i am jealous a lot and always ask him questions and remind him of the times he has fucked up.:-[ i know i am justifying it but i see what i did differently than the stuff he's done. (imagine that, lol) i am one of those "i get stupid when i'm drunk" people. i did not plan to do what i did. i tried to avoid it but i got drunk and did it.(if i were a guy, wouldn't this be the perfect time to say,"but i'm a guy, i can't help myself???" lol) on the other hand the things he did, he was seeking out another person. you could even say i cheated physically, and he cheated emotionally....maybe. i don't know. i have a lot of feelings pent up about it, and it is hard for me to deal with knowing that i am hurting the relationship more by not letting some things go. i am trying but i still have my days where all i can think about is catching him cheating because i think i know that he is. i am very OCD by the way!
so there you go xdamage. yes, some of the people worried about getting cheated on are thinking of or regretting cheating.
which goes to say that a lot of my jealousy and suspicion are a result of my own concience.
we have a great relationship in every way except this. my issues with this came way before him. i think if i could somehow think like katrine maybe i could relax.

SonicBones
12-22-2004, 12:57 AM
No It's cool Bikini. I knew what you meant.I think Rose and I and others think the same about lusting.You see someone attractive you fantasize so what? How can we insult someone's intellect we're with and tell them "Oh no,you're the only person in the world I can be attracted to?" It's bizarre and it's a lie. It's when the actual "actions speak louder than words" theory comes into play that causes probs.So if you don't act on it and are with the person you chose to be in a relationship with I don't see the harm.Of course if you're in your mate's face about it all the time.That's just plain sadistic and insulting. It should just be a given all humans do it.Some just have respect and restraint and wouldn't act on it.

Moneywise
12-22-2004, 01:25 AM
i was disagreeing with mrpunk and moneywise...

awwww. You were disagreeing with little ol me. How cute. :glasses:

MW

bigteninch
12-22-2004, 01:27 AM
there is a big difference between commenting on someones beauty, and banging them in your mind.... to me.

bikinigirl04
12-22-2004, 01:40 AM
awwww. You were disagreeing with little ol me. How cute. :glasses:

MW
diagreeing but loving you all the same!:D

RoseDelight
12-22-2004, 02:16 AM
No It's cool Bikini. I knew what you meant.I think Rose and I and others think the same about lusting.You see someone attractive you fantasize so what? How can we insult someone's intellect we're with and tell them "Oh no,you're the only person in the world I can be attracted to?" It's bizarre and it's a lie. It's when the actual "actions speak louder than words" theory comes into play that causes probs.So if you don't act on it and are with the person you chose to be in a relationship with I don't see the harm.Of course if you're in your mate's face about it all the time.That's just plain sadistic and insulting. It should just be a given all humans do it.Some just have respect and restraint and wouldn't act on it.
Nah, I don't feel that way. I define cheating, and lusting different than most (a great deal of) human beings.

I was just curious what others felt about 'lusting', and 'cheating'....

mr_punk
12-22-2004, 08:45 AM
And yes, when one is unfaithful it ALWAYS has something to do with respect and affection for that person to whom one is being unfaithful. When one lets that other person fade long enough, fast enough or hard enough to betray them, that does have something to do with respect and affection well, aren't we talking about two different situations? i mean, if a man left or cheated on his wife because he was unhappy with his marriage. sure, i can see your point. however, what if he's satisfied with his marriage. yet, he still steps out on his wife during his business trips. you know, when a man tells a woman, "she meant nothing to me". sometimes, he really means it.


regretting it afterward, or knowing the other person can't find out doesn't change that.unless, the man is adept at compartmentalization.


my point is that people screwing up being a normal part of relationships does not make screwing up any kind of loyalty.it's only screwing-up if you get caught. i'm not trying to be facetious, but i did caution everyone that some people might find some of the replies disturbing.

bikinigirl04
12-22-2004, 02:42 PM
mr punk i have to say i hope my man does not feel like that- i feel like i screwed up if something happens and i have never "gotten caught". i hope that he will tell me if he does something b/c i believe i can deal with that, everyone makes mistakes. what i can't deal with is the lies and covering up.
just because it meant nothing to you doesn't make it less of a betrayal, either. i would rather hear, im sorry i made this mistake, than, i did this, it meant nothing, get over it. if it meant nothing to you why did you risk losing someone that did mean something over it...not you of course; this hypothetical person.
does anyone feel the same, that a couple of isolated incidents is different than going out with intentions to cheat, and doing it frequently? that just seems really selfish and hurtful.

bigteninch
12-22-2004, 02:52 PM
could you rephrase the question? it sounds like - who wants to love a cheeter
maybe i dont understand

xdamage
12-22-2004, 02:53 PM
katrine-i have to be honest. i have been a lying sack of shit cheater too. but i wish i could have your attitude! i haven't been able to "don't ask don't tell." everytime i've done it i have felt horrible. i always end up telling on myself. i have struggled with this for a really long time and i definately have issues with it. i am jealous a lot and always ask him questions and remind him of the times he has fucked up.:-[ i know i am justifying it but i see what i did differently than the stuff he's done. (imagine that, lol) i am one of those "i get stupid when i'm drunk" people. i did not plan to do what i did. i tried to avoid it but i got drunk and did it.(if i were a guy, wouldn't this be the perfect time to say,"but i'm a guy, i can't help myself???" lol) on the other hand the things he did, he was seeking out another person. you could even say i cheated physically, and he cheated emotionally....maybe. i don't know. i have a lot of feelings pent up about it, and it is hard for me to deal with knowing that i am hurting the relationship more by not letting some things go. i am trying but i still have my days where all i can think about is catching him cheating because i think i know that he is. i am very OCD by the way!
so there you go xdamage. yes, some of the people worried about getting cheated on are thinking of or regretting cheating.
which goes to say that a lot of my jealousy and suspicion are a result of my own concience.
we have a great relationship in every way except this. my issues with this came way before him. i think if i could somehow think like katrine maybe i could relax.
Okay Bikini. Just so you know, I am not judging you. It happens. I've met other people that cheat on the one hand. Regret it and worry about their SOs cheating on the other. That's the way people are sometimes. They know one thing is right but they do something else.

I don't think cheating is the end of the world. I don't cheat on my SO cause I love her but I can't say I haven't thought about it (more so when drunk). I won't say it is because I am a guy. It is because I am human just like you are human.

You said I was being defensive. Maybe. I guess I don't like self righteousness women (or men) that harp on the other sex. Now I see that is not what you are doing. And now that you've had the guts to tell us this part of the story, I apologize. That took courage.

RoseDelight
12-22-2004, 03:29 PM
mr punk i have to say i hope my man does not feel like that- i feel like i screwed up if something happens and i have never "gotten caught". i hope that he will tell me if he does something b/c i believe i can deal with that, everyone makes mistakes. what i can't deal with is the lies and covering up.
just because it meant nothing to you doesn't make it less of a betrayal, either. i would rather hear, im sorry i made this mistake, than, i did this, it meant nothing, get over it. if it meant nothing to you why did you risk losing someone that did mean something over it...not you of course; this hypothetical person.
does anyone feel the same, that a couple of isolated incidents is different than going out with intentions to cheat, and doing it frequently? that just seems really selfish and hurtful.The intentions to go outside of your relationship, and cheat. And accidental mistakes.......

I don't know. I think 'accidently cheating' is interesting. How do you accidently get naked and have intercourse?

I've considered using the "It was an accident, I was drunk" excuse...But in all reality, I just like new things. It isn't about love, or emotions to me. I like new things. If someone gets hurt along in the process, I do apologize. But men know what they are getting into before they date me. One person can only entertain me for so long.

Maybe it's the nature of being 24, I don't know.

That's why I said that I don't agree with Sonic. I am not a monogamy type of person yet, and lust is a very attractive trait to me.

bikinigirl04
12-22-2004, 06:46 PM
thanks xdamage.
bigteninch you're right i guess im asking which case would you rather be in, where they did it and feel its nothing or where they did it and feel horrible and want to be honest about it. you are right both would be cheating and for some that would be the end of it. but for me as a person who has made mistakes i feel i would be more understanding if he came to me and admitted it, than if i found out or caught him, and it was a long term thing.
so are you saying you have never ever done anything your woman would be unhappy about?
rose this is true, you dont accidently screw someone, lol. i i hear what you are saying though. it is different for everyone.

xdamage
12-22-2004, 06:50 PM
To me all this talk about intentions versus actions is just a buch of BS. Unless someone forces you or drugs you to the point where you don't know what your doing, the difference between what you do and what you intend is nothing other then lies we tell ourselves to make it easier to swallow that we do wtf we want when we want. Sometimes it aligns with what others want. Sometimes not.

Me, I have an SO that I love, but in the end she is going to do whatever the fuck she wants. I don't cheat on her but thats for me - it makes me feel good. Thats probably some more bullshit - some sense of loyalty and honor. If she cheats, probably I'll never know. If I found out she has cheated. I'll deal with it then. And if that happens, I won't buy into all the BS about I didn't mean to get naked and let some guy fuck me - BS. Then again who knows, maybe I won't care. It is better to ride the wave then it is to try and guess how I will feel.

RoseDelight
12-22-2004, 07:07 PM
Some people live by the "Don't ask don't tell" policy.

RoseDelight
12-22-2004, 07:22 PM
thanks xdamage.
bigteninch you're right i guess im asking which case would you rather be in, where they did it and feel its nothing or where they did it and feel horrible and want to be honest about it. you are right both would be cheating and for some that would be the end of it. but for me as a person who has made mistakes i feel i would be more understanding if he came to me and admitted it, than if i found out or caught him, and it was a long term thing.
so are you saying you have never ever done anything your woman would be unhappy about?
rose this is true, you dont accidently screw someone, lol. i i hear what you are saying though. it is different for everyone.
Forgiving someone is a powerful act. Forgeting is an even harder one though. :)

RoseDelight
12-22-2004, 08:17 PM
Alrighty, Sonic....Have a good one! ;D

I think it's possible to make 'mistakes', Bikni. It's what you do after you make the mistake is what determines a lot.

RoseDelight
12-22-2004, 08:22 PM
Debate is fine. But my sex life has nothing to do with the topic at hand though. :)

I think you have wonderful morals, Kudos to you.

Jenny
12-22-2004, 10:09 PM
Rose - I think it is delightful of you to run a relationshiop however you see fit. Honestly- regardless of how of you define cheating I think you are delightful. The fact that I am a li8ttle bit wasted rogjt now has nothing to do with it.

Everyone else - I think it is nice to run a relationship by mutual rules -I have no problem believing that to you it means nothing, but to someone else it may be quite a lot. So loyalty means nothing if you are willing to give up nothing. It is what is convenient to you.

By the way, I have been celebrating. I got a 170 on my LSAT - what I wanted. I rox.. So If i am not coherent, that is why. 98th %. Whoohoo. And - seriously. mpw. it is my birythday. Yay me.

bigteninch
12-22-2004, 10:45 PM
nice job Jenny! that is an achievement.

So I asked my friend if he thought lusting was cheeting - he said no, it's not physical. So then I ask him, well would you get "extras" if you could get away with it at a club. Sure! he said.

So then I ask him, if you had a girl at home who was good with her tongue ;)
would you still go to SCs. This surprised me, he said no.

Jenny
12-23-2004, 12:34 PM
Geez. Am I ever charming and agreeable when I'm drunk? Sorry everyone. But at least I don't actually know you, so you don't get the phone calls!

bigteninch
12-23-2004, 04:40 PM
thanks xdamage.
bigteninch you're right i guess im asking which case would you rather be in, where they did it and feel its nothing or where they did it and feel horrible and want to be honest about it. you are right both would be cheating and for some that would be the end of it. but for me as a person who has made mistakes i feel i would be more understanding if he came to me and admitted it, than if i found out or caught him, and it was a long term thing.
so are you saying you have never ever done anything your woman would be unhappy about?
rose this is true, you dont accidently screw someone, lol. i i hear what you are saying though. it is different for everyone.
ok cool, i think i understand. this is the kind of stuff i don't think about too often but nonetheless am in some way affected by it. So, yeah i remember a time about 15 years ago. My wife and I were planning to split, and I was in NY and ended up sleeping with the maid. I felt bad about it and if we would have stayed together might have told her about it. I dont know. Something like that can damage a relationship forever and should be considered very thoroughly. I think if it truly was a single incident, like mine was, and I felt the remorse of that action - resolved not to do it again, then I am not sure I would have ever told her.

On the other hand, if a lady i was seeing told me something similiar, i think i would repect her for having the courage to confide in me. And, over time, could probably get over it. This has kind of happened recently. I took my gf back to her mothers house and after a couple months she was pregnant. She claims that she was "forced" (dont want to use that other accusatory word), but she lost the baby. When she told me i felt better knowing rather than not knowing, but i still wonder what her part was. See, she would site in front of her mother and her mother's boyfriend and tell them how many orgasams she had. So.... u know?....

To really answer the Q. I would never forget being lied to and uncovering the
indiscretion. Now if a lover came to me and trusted me enough to tell me, AND, it was not in their nature to behave this way - i just might be able to understand and accept it.
forgive even. ...cause deep inside of me, i am a loyal, monogamous individual who appreciates the kind of love that runs deeply through two hearts, minds, and souls.

good question...

bikinigirl04
12-24-2004, 01:06 AM
thanks everyone. the night i wrote that i really wasn't thinking about me personally, i had a bad night at work with a bunch of handsey cheap guys. but also my bf was out of town and i always get more worried about this crap at those times.
i have decided not to dwell on these things anymore. life is too short and shit happens. i do prefer to know the truth than to be lied to but its not worth the stress to be paranoid.

hugs to everyone! merry christmas and happy new year!!

Moneywise
12-24-2004, 01:43 AM
hugs to everyone! merry christmas and happy new year!!
Likewise.

Happy holidays to everyone that contributes to the greatness of this site.

http://www.adultnetsurprise.com/forums/images/smilies/new/money.gifwise

bikinigirl04
12-24-2004, 11:31 AM
hmmmm i don't contribute right now because i don't have a credit card...don't you have to have one to pay on here? i was planning to get my bf to pay if SW changed to paid memberships, he's got the plastic.

was that a hint moneywise? lol

i will be contributing soon...

Moneywise
12-24-2004, 10:51 PM
was that a hint moneywise? lol


lol. actually I wasn't hinting at that at all. I was speaking more along the lines of brain contributions. ;) However, contributing to this site monetarily sounds like a good idea. That reminds me, I think it's time for me to give up a lil dough again. Happy Holidays!

MW

Gia2608
01-29-2005, 11:19 PM
I agree, what the hell are you talking about x-damage?? You stupid loger blogger!!!! What does getting pregnant have to do with anything she asked? And why repeat your lameass comments when she clarified herself?

And since I'm on the subject of what an imbucile I think you are, unplanned pregnancy is not the only risk in casual sex with strangers, there are others. Ever heard of say...AIDS for example? Well, it's is a disease that there is no cure for that attacks your immune system and ultimately kills you. And guess what? Men get it too. Then there's herpes and syphillis is also on the rise. I don't have time to explain those to you, so try to figure out how to use your search engine if you need more info...


When did she say she thought women were the superior sex? Obviously you have some hang up with females or you wouldn't be so condescending to the girl that posted the q's and such an asshole you would tell her how to prevent her daughter from getting knocked up. I forgot about that were you serious??? I doubt it. How can anyone be that stupid and be on an adult oriented site. Sorry, I take back calling you an imbucile. Actually, you are quite amusing, thanks for the laugh.

big_daddy
01-31-2005, 06:44 AM
It chaps my ass when I read things on cheating, because anyone at any given point in time can cheat!! Not just men, women can do it too. Some keep themselves out of the "high risk" chances by not going to bars, parties, sc's etc. I have never cheated on my s.o. but she has cheated on me. I have cheated on a past girlfriend, so I'm no angel. She tells me I can have sex with another woman if I want, but it has to be safe sex and she has to know about it. I don't think I can do it, I know how I am, I can't stop my self from eating only one cookie, how could I just have sex with someone else one time? I dream about it all the time, we even joke around about who it is. Part of me wants to do it, to "get back" at her, but I don't think I can really do it for that reason. I think a (one) "one night stand" is exceptable, not ok but exceptable. When it becomes frequent or a "life style" then its a problem. I guess the older you get the more you understand, you have to be able to forgive and (try to) forget.

Nicolina
02-23-2005, 03:08 AM
I'm sorry, but I just have to weigh in on the biology thing, since biology is what I do....
(I know it doesn't have much to do with bikinigirl's original question, so please forgive me. Here goes:)

Males and females of just about every species have different reproductive strategies. These strategies are generally determined by the fact thatsperm is cheap and eggs are expensive. This is just a plain and simple fact. As a result, males (of most species, including humans) tend to employ a reproductive strategy that involves impregnating as many females as possible (this number varies with the amount of parental care that males characteristically provide in a given species--in humans, childhood is very long and so throughout our evolutionary history males have tended to provide quite a bit of parental care.)

Females, on the other hand, have generally evolved to be choosier than males--because it is energetically more expensive to produce an egg than a sperm (this is always true, in any species). And of course, after producing that egg, a human female has to endure the energetic expense of carrying a fetus for nine months and nursing for a long time after that. Not to mention the very real risk involved in giving birth to a very big-headed baby. Given the expense and risk of pregnancy, birth, and nursing, females are more likely to have offspring that survive to reproductive age if, instead of mating indiscriminately, they very carefully choose the male with the "best genes" or the greatest ability to provide for her and her offspring......

What I'm getting at here is that males and females have evolved in such a way that the reproductive strategies most likely to get their genes into next generation will come "naturally" to them.

This is NOT an "excuse" for men to cheat! It's just a biological explanation of why they may be statistically more likely to do so. It's because SPERM IS CHEAP.

Of course, humans are an extremely weird species with maladaptively large brains that have produced language, culture, and internet chat rooms, so.....it's hard to tease out the relative influence of biology and culture at this point. Still, as a general rule of thumb, the "sperm is cheap" hypothesis has lots of empirical support in humans and other species.

I am so sorry to be such a science geek, but I couldn't help myself. I know this post will make some people mad (if anyone even reads it; I think this is kind of an old thread), and I apologize......but I just wanted to voice the perspective from an evolutionary biology point of view because it's really a very interesting lens through which to look at human behavior--including SC behavior!. :)

Jenny
02-23-2005, 06:47 AM
Isnt' that kind of Desmond-Morris-pop-anthrolopology rather than biology?

evan_essence
02-23-2005, 09:19 AM
sperm is cheap and eggs are expensive.So remember that before you guys bitch about what you get in a $20 LD.


Isnt' that kind of Desmond-Morris-pop-anthrolopology rather than biology?For those who want to keep up:
http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/scientist/desmond_morris.html

-Ev

Nicolina
02-23-2005, 05:37 PM
Isnt' that kind of Desmond-Morris-pop-anthrolopology rather than biology?

Nope, it's actually solid evolutionary ecology.

Nicolina
02-23-2005, 05:45 PM
So remember that before you guys bitch about what you get in a $20 LD.


lol....My point exactly!!

Nicolina
02-23-2005, 06:02 PM
Hi Jenny and evan_essence,
Thanks for the responses and the link....
Though I haven't read the Naked Ape, I don't think there's anything wrong with Desmond Morris. I mean, I think he was a real biologist, not a weird flake or anything...I'm not that familiar with his work, though. I'm sure it's a little dated. But my understanding is that he was in fact a zoologist, NOT an anthropologist, and people got freaked out by his work because they don't like to think of themselves as just another primate species; it was sort of revolutionary at the time, and people rejected it (just like they rejected E.O. Wilson's Sociobiology) because they were uncomfortable with the premise that humans are animals and therefore have been shaped by evolutionary pressures just as all other animals have. Lots of people are still uncomfortable with that idea, but all biologists accept it as a given.

Some people really confound the idea that biologists might want to explain human behavior using biology with the idea that biologists might want to CONDONE or EXCUSE BAD human behavior.....but it really is the former!

Like I said, the evolution of language and the plasticity of human culture throw a big ugly wrench into the whole equation, but I personally believe that a few thousand years of culture can't completely usurp millions of years of evolution. There's a complex interplay of both in all human behavior.

Jenny
02-23-2005, 09:18 PM
I'm sure that is what some people were uncomfortable with, and Morris was indeed a biologist - however the work he is famous for is essentially "darwinian anthropology for dummies" - with all the insight that the name implies (Men like breasts because they are like ass cheeks. Yeah. That sounds believable if you have the critical thinking skills of a 4 year old AND a push up bra)

evan_essence
02-24-2005, 02:49 PM
(Men like breasts because they are like ass cheeks. Yeah. That sounds believable if you have the critical thinking skills of a 4 year old AND a push up bra)Well, I've got the bra and the typical SC customer has those thinking skills, so both criteria have been met.

-Ev

Jenny
02-24-2005, 03:57 PM
Evan:
why are you taking Desmond Morris's side? Just... just put your bra away, will you?

evan_essence
02-26-2005, 04:50 AM
^^^Okay, but only if I can shake and slap my ass cheeks instead of trying to pass my breasts off as ass cheek like. Actually, I never did understand the logic behind that breast/ass cheek association. Wouldn't the human male's fascination with breasts arise from his suckling on them as an infant? And the human male's fascination with female asses be parallel to an ape's ass-cheek obsession? And the human male's fascination with my ability to swing on a pole... well, you get the idea.

-Ev

merely_lurking
02-26-2005, 02:51 PM
I think a lot of the guys that get extras in clubs are older, have been married for awhile, and need an outlet to maintain some excitement in their sex lives, and just in general. When I have gotten extras, it has only been when I'm not in a relationship, and I'm not getting any. When I am in a relationship, I find that any free time that I get to myself, I would rather not spend with other women, I just want to be alone. I think I am too lazy to cheat on my woman. It would take too much mental energy to cheat on her, try not to get caught, and juggle more than one relationship if it became a regular thing. Far too much work...