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View Full Version : "PL's" and how not to be one.



Thorn
01-01-2005, 07:18 AM
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Moneywise
01-01-2005, 12:44 PM
I'm not sure where you spend the majority of your time (blue or pink) but over on the blue site the term PL has always been laughable. It has never been taken seriously because most everyone I have associated with on the blue site has been frequenting the SCs long enough to have gained valuable insight on most everything that goes on there.



"Custys" need to understand that there is a significant amount of dancers [I didn't say all] who don't use "PL" the same way you do when you use it to define yourselves and each other. What they mean when they use it is a man who can't function with women, or have one share their time with him, unless he is paying for it. In short, someone who would be unworthy of their time or company if she wasn't being remunerated for it.
I would assume this to be valuable information for someone that might not already know better. You posted it on the right board. ;)


That is simply fact. I've heard the term used over and over again, by the dancers themselves, back when I was not a 'custy' myself but an employee of the club, just as themselves.

I bet those same dancers know better than to use it in the presence of said customers as they would inevitably cut deep into their own incomes. You know the old saying “what goes on behind closed doors…” ;D


The most important thing to understand about strip-clubs is that fantasy is what is for sale.

Pink site: appropriate help for the newbies. Blue site: stating the obvious.


Just realize that this is business. It is a marketplace. People are buying and selling things. It is not about love. It isn't about friendship. It isn't about personal relationships of any order. It's about someone selling something and someone purchasing it.

So when a dancer I frequent decided to give me head in the parking lot of a very well known 24 hr convenience store on the way to her house after I gave her $30 in the club (20 dance, 10 drinks) was it her way of simply elevating herself in the business marketplace? Head for 30. That sure doesn’t sound like good business sense. :-\


Know that I am not anti-dancer [in fact, I am quite the contrary]. I am, actually, anti-PL's. Guys who come into strip-clubs all dreamy eyed wanting to be bowled over, and eventually getting exactly that but not in the way they intended. They cause trouble for the dancers when they implode and make a mess. They are a problem for the club employees for the same reason. Plus they give the dancers the false impression that all guys are like them. Easily manipulated by a word, a touch, a promise whispered. In other words, marks.
I can’t imagine any of the blue siters still go in all starry eyed. LoL. They might come out starry eyed but that’s another story in itself. }:D I have no problem being referred to as a Mark. Most dancers I know refer to me as my actual name though. Once again this lends credence to the ol saying “what goes on behind closed doors…”.



As a customer of a strip-club you should enter the establishment the same way you would any marketplace. You are courteous and polite to all you interact with. Fellow customers, club employees, and dancers. You make it known, in your attitude and your demeanor, that you are there to purchase and to have fun doing it. Wow. I would have almost though you spent some time on one of my shoulders while I clubbed.



What you don't make known, because you've wiped it from your lexicon of spoken and body language as well as your thoughts, is anything having to do with the notion that you are there to engage in anything real or meaning full of an intimate nature. I really tried to keep a straight face but she wouldn’t let me. It’s a good thing I had a towel in the ride. ::)




Many guys want to have actual relationships with dancers.

Define relationship. Let’s try not to delve into the Bill Clinton meaning of relations. Trust me, I could debate you all day long based upon some of the SC experiences, relations, (whatever you want to call them) I have been fortunate enough to enjoy over the past year. Is it a relationship if both of you end up swapping bodily fluids? Is she still a dancer or just simply a beautiful woman that took interest in satisfying a few of her own personal needs?


Exactly because of the what I say in the post above. Because I don't exchange gifts or money for time spent with me. I’ve only made that mistake once after a desperate plea from an old acquaintance. Thanks to the blue site posse I have been forever educated on why never to do so again. :thanx: (hey look a blue smiley. so appropriate..heh)




This can strip away the marketplace purchaser/seller scenario if the folks involved want it to [it doesn't happen all the time... not even very often, but it does happen often enough to prove the worthiness of the concept].
It actually happens a lot more often than you would imagine. I guess it ultimately depends on where you go, how you conduct yourself, and what you’re looking for. The information you’ve taken the time to put together will definitely help the newer custys that probably frequent the pink site.

Now let’s toast to more “relationship” building in 2005. :cheers:

MW

WiseGuy_TX
01-01-2005, 12:54 PM
http://www.ass-c.com/content1.htm

PL™, Pathetic Loser (Siren, 2/96) - (a) The term "Siren" used in a private email to another stripper to describe ASSCers™, accidentally posted the email to A.S.S-C, and was flamed relentlessly by ASSCers™ whose fragile egos were bruised; (b) Saxbeat adds, "someone who comes to A.S.S-C for advice on his (or her) love life."

Katrine
01-01-2005, 01:32 PM
If you ate in a diner where the same pretty waitress brought you your plate two times a day and you got to know each other so well that you began talking about your lives in detail, etc... but it never moved beyond the diner would you honestly think this person is a pal of yours? Would you define your relationship as anything other than a business one? Actually, this happens all the time. My bf has a friend who is an uber-Pl, but one who doesn't frequent stripclubs. Thank dog, because he gets crushes on any and every girl who is nice to him. He still asks about a girl friend of mine he met over 2 years ago and had a brief conversation with.

I believe that a waitress quit her job because this guy would come around too much. A PL can exist anywhere, they are lonely people with poor social skills who exist in a different plane of reality. They live in a fantasy world because they know they are too pathetic to function within the realm of predominant society.

Finally, there is a good chance that an adult PL was a young PL. Remember my theory about people who were teased all of their lives not wanting to go through that again? Thus, a PL shuns normal civilian women who have nothing to gain from him, thus are likely to mock him or be rude to him.

Instead, he focuses his romantic interests on a woman that has an incentive to be nice to him, ie the waitress for tips, stripper for dances, receptionist at the car repair shop for his repeat service, etc ad infinitum....

In conclusion, there is very little you can do to stop the PL cycle. They are the weak in our society, so perhaps we can start by treating our children with love and teaching them to teach fellow children with respect..for starters...

Finally, when I use PL on the blue site, it is in satiric fashion, most of the time. Thus I am with the Money(wise) on this one. Don't get too upset, we are after all on a website dedicated to being a resource for dancers, eg bitchin about work LOL!

GnBeret
01-01-2005, 02:04 PM
Not using the definition discribed immediately above. REAL friendship. REAL love. REAL romance. That is relatively rear. Even among individuals that work together in the clubs.

To be honest, in strip-clubbing, because its so much about business, there is always this power thing going on. Who is getting the upper hand on who. Whose getting the best of the deal. It makes it hard to move past that and deal with each others not as opposite ends of a business equation, buyer/seller, custy/dancer, john/provider, what-have-you, but simply as people. But once and awhile you get folks who are willing to see each other as folks first and anything else second, and then one never knows... I suppose anything is possible under those conditions.


I'd have to go with Moneywise on this one... so much so that I'd describe it as "relatively common," as opposed to "relatively rare.";)

doc-catfish
01-01-2005, 02:46 PM
A PL can exist anywhere, they are lonely people with poor social skills who exist in a different plane of reality. They live in a fantasy world because they know they are too pathetic to function within the realm of predominant society.

Finally, there is a good chance that an adult PL was a young PL. Remember my theory about people who were teased all of their lives not wanting to go through that again? Thus, a PL shuns normal civilian women who have nothing to gain from him, thus are likely to mock him or be rude to him.
Ugh, I hate to look at things that bluntly. That seems to imply that these guys are in some sort of hopeless situation.

In many cases, it isn't so much these guys are actual cretins, but just have an awkward way of presenting themselves, particularly to attractive women. A lot of such guys (and not just in SC's) will use their money to get the object of their desire overlook that awkwardness. In an actual dating situation, with the right woman, it may actually work. What guys seem to forget in a club is that for the dancer it was always about the money, and that it likely wouldn't be any bit different if they looked like Tom Cruise.

I am in agreement that a lot of childhood trauma plays a major part in making these folks into what they are, but this sort of thing has been going on for eons. Since women today are more career oriented than women of generations past, and people are getting married at a later age, the problem has exasperated somewhat. That fact that strippers have evolved from stage performers to glorified hostesses over the past couple decades is a direct result of that trend.

Mr Hyde
01-01-2005, 03:07 PM
If you're a PL, you will be offended by being labeled one. If you're not a PL, you think being called one is funny.

Casual Observer
01-01-2005, 07:33 PM
I'm with GB's and MW's assessments here; the level and degree of PL-dom varies so widely due to the eclectic nature of the SC environment and the personalities within it. As much as people decry the commonness of aggressive or merely annoying PLs, people really do click in a club more often than dancers here would care to admit.

You certainly know how to take the fun out of SCs by seriously overanalyzing it. Me thinks Thorn doth protest too much.

:D

Besides, as I'm often fond of saying, we're all PLs sometimes; it's a recreational hazard.

jccbin
01-01-2005, 09:30 PM
I was a pathetic loser once. Now, I'm just a loser.

The difference? I was pathetic because I let myself get taken advantage of.

I'm a loser because I'm short, deformed, hump-backed, and something that the basic female instict of preserving her genes will almost certainly make me unattractive to her.

I think it helps that I can be funny, interesting, and have a 160 IQ and my own business.

When I meet the right woman, IF I meet the right woman, I'll put forth the effort to win her heart and soul. Unti then, I can pay a dancer to hold my hand or hug me.

So there. :-)

All Good Things
01-01-2005, 10:43 PM
You've noted all manner of real friendships [you know, hang out together, count on each other equally-as in no one is taking advantage of the other, go to each other's homes and have a part in each others lives], real romantic entanglements, and love matches between strip-club dancers and their patrons?
"Love matches?" Is that a new reality show on Fox?::)

Look, of course, there is "all manner of real friendships." This is not exactly a news flash. There are also real romantic relationships, although they are much rarer. The SC dynamic tends to work strongly against the romantic ones, and for very good reason. Most regulars recognize this dynamic and support it. It's also what protects us from PL-dom, makes us better customers, and prompts us to tell newbies to quit looking for gf's in the clubs.

As human beings, though, we are not always entirely predictable. Sometimes people turn out to be surprisingly generous or honest or vulnerable. We learn this over time. Sometimes we bond to each other for reasons even we don't understand. Hell, I don't understand why I do. I'm not sure I even want to.

What makes this incomparably more complex is that different types of relationships actually co-exist in parallel -- club customer relationships, club friendships, real OTC friendships, friendships with benefits, commercial activities, just-plain-fun, and the occasional real romance. Plus the ongoing club relationships and how they tie back to OTC.

This is one reason why forums like SW exist and thrive. To help us all sort out and understand the Meaning of It All. ;)

Wwanderer
01-01-2005, 11:02 PM
As human beings, though, we are not always entirely predictable. Sometimes people turn out to be surprisingly generous or honest or vulnerable. We learn this over time. Sometimes we bond to each other for reasons even we don't understand. ... What makes this incomparably more complex is that different types of relationships actually co-exist in parallel -- club customer relationships, club friendships, real OTC friendships, friendships with benefits, commercial activities, just-plain-fun, and the occasional real romance. Plus the ongoing club relationships and how they tie back to OTC.

Precisely so, imo.

The biggest problems people have in understanding both SCs and life in general is that they underestimate its complexity and unpredictability, especially in regards to people and their behaviors. Most often people draw conclusions and understandings that are far too general and strong/absolute based on a handful of their personal experiences and perhaps those of a few people they know.

-Ww

Madcap
01-02-2005, 05:20 AM
Does it really make a difference what someone else thinks of you? Especially someone you don't even know?

Worrying about stuff like this causes hypertention, which is is bad for your heart. :D

FONDL
01-02-2005, 10:53 AM
I find two things in this thread very interesting. First is the assumption that we're always talking about a male-female reationship. Would it be different if it were male-male or female-female? For example, say a woman moves to a new town where she doesn't know anyone, gets in the habit of eating at a certain restaurant regularly and gets to know a waitress very well to the extent that they begin socializing together. We'd call them friends wouldn't we? So why wouldn't we also call them friends if they were male-female, and if it were customer-stripper? In either case there's still money involved, so what? And why can't the friendship be limited to inside the club only, most friedships are limited to certain segments of our lives. Do you have to let a person into every part of your life to be friends? I'd say that rarely happens with most of our friends.

Secondly, many of you seem to view "friends" as a black and white concept, that two people either are or they aren't. But don't most friendships lie in the grey area that is the continuum between the extremes of friend and non-friend? Let's face it, as I noted in the previous paragraph, friendships are almost always limited to a particular area of your life -unless you've known the other person since childhood they are rarely rarely welcome in all areas of your life. In this sense I think that customer-supplier relationships, including some of those that develop in strip clubs, approach the common meaning of friendship quite often. I would suggest that the term "PL" applies to customers who go to strip clubs specifically in search of a friend. But that doesn't mean that for the rest of us a friendship couldn't happen. I don't go looking for friends at the SC. But I've made a couple. And in answer to a previous post, frankly I consider my massage therapist to be a friend. And I suspest she feels the same, even though the only place we've ever met is in her massage studio and money always changes hands.

I think friendship (or lack thereof) exists in the heart, and all the external considerations (like money) are irrelevant. If you start putting preconceived limits on who can or can't qualify as a friend, you're bound to have fewer of them.

FBR
01-02-2005, 12:28 PM
Customer Conversation is a section set up for us guys to ask questions of the dancers and get their opinions on whatever. I dont see this topic being relevant by that definition. I'm tempted to move it to the Blue Site but I'll confer with the other Mod first.

Nothing wrong with the topic...Lord knows I know about being a PL ::) just maybe the wrong place.

FBR

Malibu
01-02-2005, 01:36 PM
I thought it was a Blue topic too, FBR. So much so that it even drew the lurking blue posters into the pink light.

Just so I can chime in with my :twocents:, I like PLs. Although for the most part they are dilusional, they desire dancers and spend money. So if you are a PL, we love you the way you are, please stay that way. :)

Moneywise
01-03-2005, 11:10 PM
Here's my last healthy contribution to this thread. http://web.gay.hr/smilies/yawnhand.gif When braving the rough seas always be sure to keep a floatation device by your side. http://web.gay.hr/smilies/usecondom.gif

MW