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JustJayda
10-25-2006, 08:54 AM
[email protected]#?

It's a message board.

People post messages. (And yes, sometimes people feel they'd like to contribute to an older topic)

If that bothers you, feel free to find a message board with thread expiration dates.

Calm down Sweetie, maybe you haven't "cyber-met" (Akasha) , but she was just joking :D

All W.O.C's know that this thread will keep coming back, cuz the issue is still alive!

She's making a smart-ass comment before someone else has a chance to! :P

We laugh to keep from crying hun.

dollylocks
10-25-2006, 09:34 AM
Calm down Sweetie, maybe you haven't "cyber-met" (Akasha) , but she was just joking :D

All W.O.C's know that this thread will keep coming back, cuz the issue is still alive!

She's making a smart-ass comment before someone else has a chance to! :P

We laugh to keep from crying hun.

I'm not worked up.

My take on the issue: Men like what they like, period. Some men have a thing for white women, some for black women, some for large breasted women, some for red headed women....the list goes on. However, for the most part, they will be responsive to an overall attractive woman, no matter what color.<--With that mentality, drench yourself in sexy and make your money. Stop using the race card.

JustJayda
10-25-2006, 11:03 AM
Everyone is entitled to their take on it. All I was stating was that Akasha was not trying to show displeasure that the thread was recently revived.

BeBe
10-25-2006, 11:50 AM
There's nothing wrong with using the race card and whatever other card for that matter. Racism is alive and well no matter how beautiful the package, people always see color. I have to work twice as hard just to be competitive and regardless of how good I hustle I'm constantly reminded of my skin color. I'm not ashamed to state the facts and it's okay if other people want to ignore the obvious, but since I already work in the twilight zone I choose not to think as such.

vidadiva
10-25-2006, 12:53 PM
I totally agree with BeBe on people will always see color first no matter how beautiful the package, and we have to work twice as hard. Just last night I had a caucasian customer repeatedly tell me that I have the best looking body in the club, how beautiful I am and yadda yadda. When I asked him for a dance he said maybe later. Well not even 15 minutes had passed and a russian girl who could barely walk in her heels and only knew how to say "my name is ..... wanna dance" in english got dances from him. So when it all comes down to it, it's all about preference and skin color preferences overshadow beauty, poise, etc. MANY, many times for some people, and those people are in large numbers at our SCs.

dollylocks
10-25-2006, 01:21 PM
Racism is alive and well no matter how beautiful the package, people always see color. I have to work twice as hard just to be competitive and regardless of how good I hustle I'm constantly reminded of my skin color.

^^self fulfilling prophecy.


I find it obnoxious that African Americans feel they must attribute ANY shortcoming whatsoever, in ANY field, to the fact that they are African American.

cinammonkisses
10-25-2006, 01:28 PM
^^self fulfilling prophecy.


I find it obnoxious that African Americans feel they must attribute ANY shortcoming whatsoever, in ANY field, to the fact that they are African American.

Like I've been telling you time and time again...keep living in your little bubble. If you want to continue on as if your color is not apart of this equation we call society then be my guest. ::)

dollylocks
10-25-2006, 01:40 PM
Like I've been telling you time and time again...keep living in your little bubble. If you want to continue on as if your color is not apart of this equation we call society then be my guest. ::)

Again, you misinterpret. Yes, color is obviously part of society. (One of the biggest riffs in our history cited race as the main factor) What I'm saying is that it's not the ONLY factor. What about actual skill?

This will upset those of you who have been falling back on the "I didn't succeed because I'm black" mentality all of your lives, but it needs to be said. You are more than your skin color. And yes, for the sake of argument, maybe society DOES see you as nothing but your skin color. But when you feel this is your ONLY shortcoming, you cut off all possibility for improvement because you fail to assess what may REALLY be holding you back. That, and a chip on the shoulder really ruins an otherwise great figure...

vidadiva
10-25-2006, 01:45 PM
Dollylocks, you cannot be serious girl. I find your statement disgustingly objectionable. But, it is what it is!

vidadiva
10-25-2006, 01:55 PM
^^self fulfilling prophecy.


I find it obnoxious that African Americans feel they must attribute ANY shortcoming whatsoever, in ANY field, to the fact that they are African American.


Just as an FYI...my previous statement was in regard to the above quote. Sorry I forgot to include it before :)

cinammonkisses
10-25-2006, 01:56 PM
Dollylocks, you cannot be serious girl. I find your statement disgustingly objectionable. But, it is what it is!

Girl, and the sickening part is that she is serious..::)

[Optimist..Jayda, Francesca someone save me :P]

PleasureVictim
10-25-2006, 02:16 PM
Dolly, you are entitled to your opinion and I'm not going to get into it with you. But you can admit that the city you work and live in is a great one for WOC who don't work in black clubs. Even with the separatist attitudes in Atlanta neighborhood/class wise, it is very accepting in other ways. This is not the norm. Hell I lived in the same state as you- a few hours south and I promise you..on MOST days what you experience isn't what I see.

You don't know me, but I can assure you I don't pull any race card nor will I let anyone make me feel second class because of my skin color. I have sat with men who no matter what they whisper in my ears or how much lust they have in their eyes, refused to buy a dance. All I could get was a drink and the number to their hotel room.

JustJayda
10-25-2006, 03:37 PM
Geez, the one day I go see a movie, the archaic-minded decide to open their mouths alligator-wide!

Who the hell is using the race card ,per say , anyway??

Dolly, your first recent post in this thread was the effectively chastise someone for bringing back a thread.....seems to me you were looking for a reason to state your antiquated distorted opinion, and to try to make other Black/WOC dancers feel like they are less than you!

The problem is not skill, I can sell a Philly-cheesteak & a six pack of White-Castles to a vegan, and I know Cin can too.

The problem I've seen most of the time is getting your foot in the door at all, when you are sporting a melanin mask! Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have not really been anywhere else besides Atlanta, as far as dancing is concerned right?.....That speaks volumes within itself, with regard to how extensive your knowledge of racism toward ethnic dancers could possibly be.

Maybe you should speak about what you actually know about. I'm happier than a fagott with a bag full of dicks that one "sista" is doing well in a "White" club. I have been and am that sister plenty of the time.

Just don't be so quick to say somebody is playing the race card as if that's the case, and further as if everybody on Earth isn't playing the game of Life with full knowledge of how the deck is distributed.

If you are that naiive, I hope your bubble has Kevlar coating. I'd hate to see you have to deal with reality......ever.

P.S. where the hell is Francesca D? You're so much nicer than me with this bullshit!

cinammonkisses
10-25-2006, 05:36 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Here, baby I want you to stay standing :soapbox: lol. Dam I wish we had a smiley that claps his hands..cause geezle do you need a standing ovation :P

miabella
10-25-2006, 05:54 PM
i wonder if dolly would be so quick to identify with whitefolks if she had danced in clubs where the black dancers are always the first ones asked for sex inside or outside the club, the first ones expected to 'cut a deal' on slow shifts, the first ones expected to take money from spendy but high maintenance customers, and the LAST ones to see a full tip rail.

it's kinda hard to sit there and tell yourself it CANNOT POSSIBLY BE YOUR RACE when guys straight out say 'but black girls are supposed to be cheap and trashy, and you're not, and that's why i can't spend on you!' it's hard to believe in 'colorblindness' when guys will pay 20 after 20 routinely to a non-black dancer airdancing away but decline a second dance with you because you didn't grind. it's hard to lie to oneself that way when customers insist, insist, insist you MUST have blood OTHER than black in your family tree because you 'speak so well' and you're 'attractive, so beautiful, you can't be all black!'

i could go on, but one could as easily dredge up many of my prior comments about race and dancing, including in this thread.

francescadubois
10-25-2006, 09:02 PM
i wonder if dolly would be so quick to identify with whitefolks if she had danced in clubs where the black dancers are always the first ones asked for sex inside or outside the club, the first ones expected to 'cut a deal' on slow shifts, the first ones expected to take money from spendy but high maintenance customers, and the LAST ones to see a full tip rail.

it's kinda hard to sit there and tell yourself it CANNOT POSSIBLY BE YOUR RACE when guys straight out say 'but black girls are supposed to be cheap and trashy, and you're not, and that's why i can't spend on you!' it's hard to believe in 'colorblindness' when guys will pay 20 after 20 routinely to a non-black dancer airdancing away but decline a second dance with you because you didn't grind. it's hard to lie to oneself that way when customers insist, insist, insist you MUST have blood OTHER than black in your family tree because you 'speak so well' and you're 'attractive, so beautiful, you can't be all black!'

i could go on, but one could as easily dredge up many of my prior comments about race and dancing, including in this thread.


CAN I GET A WITNESS!!! :bigmouth:

All right, I have refrained from posting for quite a while on this, but dolly has resurrected me. First off, let me say as a woman from ATL who has danced in the deppressingly racist Northeast (I'm sorry I had to say it), being black in Atlanta is TOTALLY different from being black anywhere else. Atlanta is full of educated, black professionals and I was fortunate enough to be exposed to this, and I think that a lot of whites in Atlanta have been exposed to that as well and they treat POCs a bit more respectfully (not to say we don't still have our problems down south, but the Northeast has us beat when it comes to shitty race relations). So Dolly, I will tell you as a woman who has been on both sides of the grass that IT IS HARD ELSEWHERE, DEAR. I never even KNEW race was as big a problem as it was until I left Atlanta. I could not BELIEVE how much racial tension was in the air up here, but baby it's real...

With that being said, I think it is very unfair (and a little bit suspect) that you are so indifferent to the plight of other WOC dancers, b/c even if you haven't had the experience yourself, you should know that it is absolutely possible that these things happen. All the women I have befriended on here are PHENOMENAL women. They don't rest on their laurels and wait for the money. These women are Hustlers to the heart and have taught me a few things. For you to say that we are suffering from sort of group paranoia is pretty f*cked up...

dollylocks
10-26-2006, 06:08 AM
CAN I GET A WITNESS!!! :bigmouth:
With that being said, I think it is very unfair (and a little bit suspect) that you are so indifferent to the plight of other WOC dancers, b/c even if you haven't had the experience yourself, you should know that it is absolutely possible that these things happen. All the women I have befriended on here are PHENOMENAL women. They don't rest on their laurels and wait for the money. These women are Hustlers to the heart and have taught me a few things. For you to say that we are suffering from sort of group paranoia is pretty f*cked up...

No, not group paranoia. I'm aware that racism exists and may be even rampant in some parts. It's simply not the only factor. I've experienced quite a bit of racism myself living in New York, but I'm just not bothered by it. So someone wants to mistreat me because of my melanin? that's honestly their loss... because I'm fabulous; all WOC are.

You can continue to misinterpret my statements and try to make me out to be a "traitor of my race", but I've said my piece.

JustJayda
10-26-2006, 06:49 AM
No, not group paranoia. I'm aware that racism exists and may be even rampant in some parts. It's simply not the only factor.

No it shouldn't be the only factor, but sadly to plenty of customers, and managers/club-owners IT IS!!!

That's all everyone is saying. You were quick to say "stop playing the race card", when it fact many WOCs can't even get in any good card games! Some of us can get into the the card hall, but to actually get dealt into the game...that's another thing.

Optimist
10-26-2006, 09:06 AM
Damn, sorry I'm late on this one.

Dolly take some road trips and try other areas if you want to know if there's any credibility to their complaints. Walk a mile in another's moccasins. I've worked in six states at top clubs (Scores NY, Masters SC) and little local spots. It has shown me a lot.

Men will tell you point-blank they don't get dances with colored girls, they'll look through you as you speak to them, and jerk their hands away if you touch them. My success doesn't blind me to that. It's not something you can always talk your way past. Do you really think Emmett Till could have talked his neck out of the noose? There are limits to persuasion. You have to have a somewhat willing buyer. As painful as that is to see you've got a stinker onyour hands it's important to understand when you didn't try hard enough and when there was no chance in hell. Keeps ya sane.

francescadubois
10-26-2006, 09:29 AM
Optimist, I don't know if you even want to bother. Sounds like she has her mind made up. But WHEN she has her experience, it will knock her on her ass.

hot4ablackchick
10-26-2006, 11:38 AM
Dolly, Every club/city is different. Depending where you are, how good you look, how good your hustle, will determine your success. At some clubs black girls will do quite well without much or any extra effort. Some clubs you just won't make shit. Thats how it is. Its NOT playing the race card if you have to work twice as hard for the same or even less than pay as white girls in the club. Its not all about being black. You are right you should not let that hold you back and use that as an excuse in every situation, but it is VERY true where I work. I've said it once and I'll say it again, an ugly black girl is NOT on the same level as an ugly white girl. I see it again and again where I work. Its a shame when and unattractive white girl with a bad body and not even half my dancing ability will still manage to get more tips than me onstage. Or what about those few occasions where I was the only one NOT getting tipped??? I always come to stage with a smile on and give a good performance.

When I first started I was a terrible hustler. Did not smile, scared, nervous, HORRID onstage, and just wannadanced (which everyone else did) I made shit money at first, but thought it was because I was new and I sucked (I did) Besides, the managers told me money would be slow until I found my niche sort of speak. Then I stayed and saw the new (white and/or latino) girls come in. They BANKED. They sucked just as much as I did if not a lot more in some cases, and guys shelled out the dollars for them onstage, and they got dance after dance. I once lived in that "bubble" too until I saw that shit. New white girls at my club are told they will bank, versus black dancers with no experience dancing are told it will suck for a while. Hmmm...anyone have an ideal why??? God forbid a black women be unable to dance onstage where I live. Though half the rotation of girls can't dance.

Its not about the race card. Its about having to look so much better, dance better, hustle harder, be nicer, than so many of the white girls (most of the time, there are exceptions) to get your due. I believe this is true in many clubs and the clubs where this not true is the minority. Many black dancers have similar experiences. There is a black girl who banks consistently at my club. Looks like a thicker gabrielle union. Hot. But the things she has to do to be a top earner are not worth it to me. Her dances are REALLY grindy, she shows a lot of vagina, grabs cocks through pants with hand, lets guys grab her ass, constantly hustling, lap sitting, pressuring mofos to get a dance, and does some sweet pole tricks onstage (I do sweet pole tricks sometimes too) The white top earner (who is really hot, not denying that) gives only airdances. She won't even sit in your lap, and don't even think about touching her. No pole tricks or even spectacular dance moves onstage, no splits, nada. Very basice performer. Kills up there most of the time. See the DIFFERENCE????
This may not be the case at every club with every dancer, but racism is SOOOO alive and well at strip clubs. Even more so than conventional jobs.

BeBe
10-26-2006, 01:08 PM
I am put off by Dollylocks statements. How dare you ignorantly misinterpret my comments as one who plays the race card and one who attributes any shortcomings to the fact that I am African American.

I never once stated my race and I also never used race as an excuse as to why things are the way they are. Self fulfilling prophecy, excuse me, who are you to tell me the way it is. You don't know me and until you've lived my life don't ever tell me what's what. I'm educated enough to know that there are several factors that contribute to ones successfulness or lack thereof in and out of the stripclub, but for you to assume that all of us are scapegoating race as the only reason for the BS we experience you're sadly mistaken.

It's also quite pathetic that you find my comments obnoxious when you've really just used a word to describe yourself, let's really talk about it. I've been nothing but respectful and nice with my comments on this board, but I tell you what I won't tolerate, it's someone like you misinterpreting what I've said and standing on the soapbox as if the rest of us are clueless as to what it really takes to make it in a society that deems us as second-class citizens. Oh I didn't start it, I was raised in it and I continue to live in it, but I am not defined by it nor do I use it as an excuse.

Tina
10-26-2006, 05:16 PM
I was hesitant to get in the mix here but I will. As blacks, we all live in a country dominated by whites numberwise and moneywise.

Dolly, it is common knowledge that all blacks are not of the same page in life. Many white people harbor their fear and anxiety towards our race based on the dissention and poverty they see from many members of our race who have been denied opportunity and exposure to an upwardly mobile life. Point blank, whites many times don't understand why so many black people are poor and commit crimes, when they as white people grew up poor and made it to the middle classes. The obvious fact, which is not so obvious to many whites, is that blacks suffered and are still suffering from segregation and discrimination, and poor whites did not.

So Dolly, you, like some of us women of color who are at least an 8 on the Scores scale, who have some caucasian characteristics in our brown skin makeup, and who have been exposed to being around white people enough where we can be comfortable in their company, are the fortunate ones of our race who can even have a chance of being a stripper in a predominately white industry.

And us women of color who have the "potential" to be able to work in a popular white club, and have the looks to be able to compete with white dancers, are merely seen as tokens by white owners.

Dolly, you are as much a token black person as is everyone is in our race who seeks any type of employment from white owned businesses. Count your lucky stars that The Cheetah in Atlanta felt it was the time to hire their token negro, and it happened to be you.

I am flat out angry and sick of having to "have proper timing" when trying to get hired in a club with high income potential, when a club can never have too many white dancers. And what about black club managers or GM's. They are more scarce than the bald eagle.

In reality, all of us, and all black people in general, need to focus more on business OWNERSHIP (and what I mean by ownership is us taking over businesses that are curently owned by whites and that have a large white patronage) and integrating those businesses with higher numbers of ethnic people than the current white owners are comfortable with.

Any of us with business sense and the knowledge of building corporations and corporate credit can own some strip clubs and not really have any risk of losing our personal assets. As blacks, working for whites is a losing battle. We have to control more wealth in this country.

If a club is run properly, overt racism from customers can be minimized, but don't count on white owners to stick up for us.

So Dolly, even though you may have the looks and communication skills and polish to allow you to deal with white customers, some white customers walk away from your stage too, call you nigger under their breath or to your face, turn their heads when you approach them, and see you as a cheaper alternative to white pussy. White club managers tell you that they have too many black dancers, or that they already have a black girl who looks like you, and currently are looking for a Halle Berry lookalike, while the next white girl who walks in the door goes right to work.

So Dolly, whether you are from a more priviledged black background, or from the hood, you are still not white. And you still get shitted on a lot. White people will only "use" you when it benefits them to do so and never forget it. Black professional team sport players may make 5 million in a year, thus making them rich, but these same black players will never be WEALTHY as the team owners are.

So racism, as you put it, may not be the only detriment to black dancers, but it is to enough of US who don't deserve to be discriminated against.

cinammonkisses
10-26-2006, 05:22 PM
PREACHHHHH!!!

^^^And Tina has spoken. Have I reminded you this week that I admire you...

francescadubois
10-26-2006, 05:39 PM
PREACHHHHH!!!

^^^And Tina has spoken. Have I reminded you this week that I admire you...


I second that. You spoke the truth. No, scratch that. You spoke the TRUF (southern folk know what I'm talking about especially when I say truf. Tee hee hee.)!!! ;D

Tina
10-26-2006, 08:56 PM
I'm from the South. LOL.

AkashaM
10-28-2006, 02:26 AM
[email protected]#?

It's a message board.

People post messages. (And yes, sometimes people feel they'd like to contribute to an older topic)

If that bothers you, feel free to find a message board with thread expiration dates.Actually was just commenting on the hotness of this topic: i have been a SW member for over 2 years and remember when this was first posted (probably more than a year ago).

Miss_Luscious
10-31-2006, 09:51 AM
Damn, sorry I was out of town and missed al of this. Well everything I would have said has been said already. I admire all of the WOC on this board who have their eyes open and know exactly what is going on in the strip club business as far as race goes. I've tried working at white clubs but the payoff was never worth the hassle. And you know what? I went right back to my ghetto little booty-shakin' club and I'm happy. I'm making money and I'm appreciated. It’s a damn shame that I couldn't be happy at the white clubs but that's the way it is.

Dolly, you really need to get out and see the (stripping) world. You have no idea what it is REALLY like to be a WOC in this industry. I'm so nervous when I go on auditions because sometimes even if I call ahead and talk to a manager and they say they are hiring, when I get there, all of a sudden, they don't need any more girls but they will call me if a space opens up. What the fuck is that? I guess I sound white on the phone but I surely can’t “pass” for white in person.

sexy_celeste
12-18-2006, 11:06 PM
I missed this too, but Id like to add my two cents.

Whilst I am Swiss-German descent, tall, blonde, busty, and part of the racial majority in my country, Ive also had the chance to experience racism.

I honestly had no idea that people from different backgrounds went through so much shite.

Living in a country where I was an ethnic abnormality (I didnt meet another foriegner for nearly 2 years) I had to deal with discrimination, people refusing to serve me in shops, (they always said 'no english" despite the fact Im fluent in the local and national languages) over-politeness, etc.

So when anyone tells me a story of how they were treated differently due to skin colour, I believe them instantly.
Its not something you would just make up.

And back on topic, in my last club I worked with the only Asian strippers in the city, and they cleaned up big time. So it CAN work in your favour, inside the club.

sassfire
12-21-2006, 10:01 AM
When I first started dancing I had a major issue with this. I just thought Black man= must want black female. WRONG!!! It took me a while to erase that logic from my brain.

hot4ablackchick
12-21-2006, 11:09 AM
When I first started dancing I had a major issue with this. I just thought Black man= must want black female. WRONG!!! It took me a while to erase that logic from my brain.


Right! Black men rarely want the black dancer, especially me!!! I feel good if they even tip me onstage. I have no booty and I've never danced to rap or R&B. I guess they either hate me or just can't relate to me?? Though the thicker black dancers do well with them sometimes, even though they are totally busted. Go figure.

sassfire
12-21-2006, 11:39 AM
Right! Black men rarely want the black dancer, especially me!!! I feel good if they even tip me onstage. I have no booty and I've never danced to rap or R&B. I guess they either hate me or just can't relate to me?? Though the thicker black dancers do well with them sometimes, even though they are totally busted. Go figure.

I just never got past the dealing with asshole djs. I went from working with a sweetheart to working with an asshole. I would take black men ignoring me over working with rude coworkers any day. You HAVE to deal with them, customer you don't.

sunnie
12-22-2006, 02:36 PM
This is a very interesting thread.

Tina, I am very impressed with your posts...I've never heard the science of the fantasy broken down like that. It makes sense that (a la "The Bluest Eye") if you grow up with an image of a Barbie-type being the "perfect" woman, then consciously or not, you would seek out something similar in the club. Obviously this is not always the case, but its the undercurrent.

I am half Argentinian, and its funny because in that country there are no black people, my mother first saw a black person (in person, not on tv/movies) when she was in her 20s. Black people are a huge fantasy there...the ultmate in terms of exoticism. But their economy sucks so I wouldn't suggest going there for work. LOL.
Every once in awhile you'll see a black person on the street (mostly Americans, some brazillians) and you see everyone else doing a double take because it is such a rare occurance, especially in the provinces.


There have been a couple of posts about other minorities...you can't really compare the experience of other minorities in the US to the black experience. Which includes the clubs. Its more difficult. But I much prefer to live in a place (Miami) where racially I just blend into the background (I'm hispanic/middle eastern). I don't like it up north in general where the races are much more marginalized and consider myself very lucky to have a city where there is a unity based on culture than race. Latinos come in every color and I don't think we think about color so much as culture and language. And I do think that here African Americans get treated much differently than black hispanics both in the club and on the street. But that's another topic altogether.

francescadubois
12-23-2006, 12:05 AM
I ...consider myself very lucky to have a city where there is a unity based on culture than race. Latinos come in every color and I don't think we think about color so much as culture and language. And I do think that here African Americans get treated much differently than black hispanics both in the club and on the street. But that's another topic altogether.

Amen!! As an "Afro-Latina", the way people respond to me is different from the way that they would a "regular" black girl...grrr...

But you're right, sunnie, you never know who is Latino!! That's the best part about it!! ;)

PA'LANTE MI GENTE!!!!:D

tmlsuperspice
01-05-2007, 12:20 PM
Some of my white friends don't understand when I don't even bother approaching certain custys. They say I'm not even trying, but I'm starting to learn which guys have money/are getting dances/have no color preferences. One white friend believes, when we work the day shift by ourselves, as long as a guy walks in the door he'll get a dance from her. She's right. It happens every time. She doesn't even see me as competion. But if other white girls start to come in, she gets mad. Meanwhile, I love it when there are other Black dancers around. I see as an affirmation that the custys have diverse tastes, not as a competition.
Unfortunately, she can walk out of day shift with $100-$400 while I leave with $0-200. There are a lot of Midwest custys in Vegas and she is from Minnesota. It gets frustrating. Especially when my rent is due and I don't have it.
I'm beginning to understand why I've been seeing SO many Black girls as prostitutes in this city. I'm constantly approached by pimps at work, and I just tell them that is NOT my lifestyle choice.
I love the clubs that I work in, but they just haven't been busy lately.:-\

francescadubois
01-05-2007, 11:35 PM
One white friend believes, when we work the day shift by ourselves, as long as a guy walks in the door he'll get a dance from her. She's right. It happens every time. She doesn't even see me as competion.

You need to take advantage of the fact that she doesn't see you as competition. I'm not saying that it's not hard for us, but you need to take advantage of being underestimated. Walk up to those guys, okay? You NEVER know who's gonna get a dance. Never. Try any fucking way. You're telling yourself no before they do. And men can smell that attitude as well. Walk up to these guys like the white girls do. Sometimes, they will act funny. Look those guys square in the eye and say, "I'm sorry, is there a problem?" A lot of times, if you bust their balls about the elephant in the room (don't say anything about the obvious), they will straighten up and a lot of times, get a dance. ;) Try it!!

AkashaM
01-08-2007, 12:38 PM
This subject confuses me so much. I dont even know what to think anymore.

Some say, "you need better sales skills" others say "you need to look more white" other say "it doesnt matter" some say "its pretty much impossible"

***throws up hands***

Who the fuck knows. Unfortunately, I dont know any Black former dancers that danced in the 80's & early 90's when girls made 2,000 every night without trying. Maybe they'd be able to shed mroe light on the subject.

Customers are are becoming more and more expectant of everything under the sun anyways.

cinammonkisses
01-08-2007, 12:50 PM
Right! Black men rarely want the black dancer, especially me!!! I feel good if they even tip me onstage.

OMG I feel the exact same way. Am I wrong for feeling like as black people if you see that I'm on this dam stage not making money you should at least come and show a sister some SUPPORT >:( I dunno, I just get into the funk sometimes when I'm on stage and there are black customers who do that. I mean dam, you see I'm up here working my ass off! I see you looking, why no tip :-[ I dont even care if they are into black women or not..I just think I should supported...

Is that a weird way of thinking???

AkashaM
01-08-2007, 01:09 PM
OMG I feel the exact same way. Am I wrong for feeling like as black people if you see that I'm on this dam stage not making money you should at least come and show a sister some SUPPORT >:( I dunno, I just get into the funk sometimes when I'm on stage and there are black customers who do that. I mean dam, you see I'm up here working my ass off! I see you looking, why no tip :-[ I dont even care if they are into black women or not..I just think I should supported...

Is that a weird way of thinking???

LOL. SUPPORT BLACK BUSINESSES!! BUY BLACK, DAMMIT, BUY BLACK!!

All kidding aside, I think many just think like that because we only make up 10% of the population.
Im sure that if there was one white gal in a club with one white group of custies, that gal would probably feel the same way, "C'mon guys, I'm white too! Tip me!"

cinammonkisses
01-08-2007, 01:11 PM
^^^ lmao shut up Akasha lmaoooooooooo

Optimist
01-08-2007, 02:53 PM
Who the fuck knows. Unfortunately, I dont know any Black former dancers that danced in the 80's & early 90's when girls made 2,000 every night without trying. Maybe they'd be able to shed mroe light on the subject.


Actually, you do and let me tell you Black dancers in the top earning clubs in the NY/NJ area were as rare as hen's teeth.

It was easier to get in if you were very light-skinned or had a very white look in terms of facial features, very slim build, wore wigs, weaves, light eye contacts, and had implants. That was it back in 1992 Manhattan. Some managers in the area would tell you they don't hire blacks. Others would hire blacks and put them on the shittiest shifts. That's the reason why you don't meet black girls from that time.

There were damn few of us and the vast majority have long since moved to greener pastures or dropped out completely. Very few of us saw this as a long-term gig because very few of us had the willingness to swallow the racism. We got it from owners forbidding the managers to hire us and firing us when they came in and discovered us working. We got it from managers who'd give us day-shift only and once a month bookings. We got it from white dancers who'd ignore us if we talked to them, flick hair in our faces, spray hairspray in our direction, blow cigarette smoke in our direction, complain about "how DARK it's getting", throw your bag aside when you leave the dressing room. All of that added up to very few opportunities for us in those top clubs. It was great if you were one of the tokens but sucked if you weren't.

PhillyDancer1982
01-08-2007, 05:23 PM
^ ^ ^ That really sucks. I can't believe people would act so close-minded as recently as the early 90s!!! The things that Optimist are horrible! It seems like this nation is not moving very far away from old-fashioned prejudices...and that really sucks. I'm not just talking about racism, but the same goes for: sexism, nationalism(such as recent-day prejudice against the Hispanics and Arabs), prejudice against overweight people, etc. I've noticed that in recent history, there's an increasing amount of economic prejudice against poor people...where people assume that all poor people are "lazy" and have gotten there because of "wrong choices" such as drugs, booze, or gambling away their savings. It is appalling at how prejudice people can be.

I never really noticed much racism in my Philly clubs, but there were a few slightly racist things with management sometimes. For example, the DJs were instructed to make sure that 2 black girls would not go up on stage one after the other, because they were afraid that customers would get tired of seeing "all black girls." I told the DJ one day that it was kinda racist. But then again, sometimes the DJ followed this rule not only with blacks, but with 2 blondes, or 2 chunkier girls, or basically any two girls that had the same distinguishable trait. And then at my first club, the manager would always con me into working day shifts...partly b/c I was too nice to say no, partly b/c I was responsible enough to show up(whereas most people blew off dayshift b/c it was so dead!), and partly b/c she needed more white girls to fill her dayshift schedule. Other than those two things, I can't think of any examples but then again, I haven't worked outside Philly(except for Atlantic City) and most of the clubs that I've worked at have been pretty decent friendly places. I'm sure the prejudice is a lot worse at hick bars or different areas of the country.

francescadubois
01-08-2007, 06:07 PM
^^PhillyDancer, if you worked where I worked for 2 years (Philly's supposed #1 Gentlemen's Club), you're right about the 2 black girls on stage thing. We could not be 2 on the stage at once. Also, the manager would tell the DJ that I couldn't dance to salsa/Spanish music (which really irked me). I've heard all the city clubs were like that. I don't know when I learned to roll with the punches and make good money, but I did. But I made money in hick bars, too. My look always made me the token, but it's definitely still hard.

exotica17
01-09-2007, 01:34 AM
So someone wants to mistreat me because of my melanin? that's honestly their loss... because I'm fabulous; all WOC are.


I love this comment, love this attitude. It is hard at times to keep this kind of thinking, though. I feel extra lucky to work at a club that doesn't seem to be too concerned with ethnicity--every black chick that works there (except me) makes bank--they are the top earners over the white girls. Granted, they can do pole tricks and shake their asses, but so can a lot of the other non-black girls, but the black beauties still make the bank.

aries1
01-09-2007, 04:49 PM
Well i'm starting to get discouraged with this biz. I have been trying to get a job as a dancer for the past month. Putting in applications, auditions, and calling. I am getting no wear fast. Eventhough every time i walk in these clubs the men all ask if i'm a new dancer there and seem to like me. I have made 200 plus just doing the auditions and I won one of them. It seems like if your black you better be 0 pounds and look like the white girls. I'm not fat but I have a big but and nice size boobs and very tall. I really want to work in this biz but in my city i can't get a job.

KaliDean
01-10-2007, 12:45 PM
Wonderful Thread.

I work in a medium scale, medium sized, club in a suburb of Cleveland. There is only myself and one other black dancer there (and she is biracial and very fair.)

I would say that I am one of the TOP earners at the club, about a third to a half or more of the time, I make more money than any of the other dancers. And I am FAR from the Halle Berry image, (the other black dancer is much closer to that.) That being said. I work my ass off. Definatly harder than any other girl there. I am generally the only or one of the only dancers that actually gets there on time. I don't sit in the dressing room or the bar and gossip with the other dancers. I can dance a lot better and give a better stage performance than the majority of other dancers, and I have much better communication skills than the other girls. I am also in a good location. (It's right by the airport so we get customers from all around the country and the globe. Also Cleveland's west side doesn't have very many black people so I am kind of considered "exotic" than if I would work on the East side, where I live.) Oh, I also have to drive half an hour to get there because it's on the other side of town. I'm more "sharp" looking, I always make sure my hair and nails are done, and that my outfits look the best (I have more outfits than the other girls who often where the same tired one everyday.) I am able to make and keep regulars because I don't lie to my customers like other girls do. I also read stripperweb :-) Pretty much, I am definantly the most "on my game" than any other dancer at my club.

I have had customers call me "nigger", "darkie", and walk away from the stage, turn around or play with their cell phone while I am on stage. I've not made a tip at times while I dance my ass off. And then the customers magically reappear when some busted white girl walks on who can't dance is on stage. This doesn't happen very often, but it happens enough.

And everyday someone makes a dumb color comment. Often they don't think they are being offensive but I have never had so many people ask me what my ancesteral background is because I'm "too pretty to be just black!"

Also I had to bust on the doors of 3 different places before I was hired at this club. All of those places were actually lower in scale than the place I work at now. Yet I saw really busted white girls working at those places. I am glad that those places didn't work out because I am making more money than the club I am at now but the only reason why I can think of as to why I didn't get hired at those clubs is straight up racism, plain and simple. Most clubs will overbook the number of white girls working but won't have more than 2 black girls per shift.

Even though I am very thankful of the money that I am making, even on a slow night it's still many times more money than my old job. And I consider myself to be a strong person and not too sensitive, but I would be lieing if I said that it isn't extremely stressful. I have literally thrown up from being so stressed out at work. I put much more time and energy than the white dancers who put about half as much energy into it, who come in late, and just say "wanna dance." It makes it difficult for me at times to be upbeat and positive all the time when I see this happens. And I know I have to remain upbeat and positive every second that I am on the floor if I want to make money. I have to smile more and act like I am having fun more than the white dancers. As soon as I get peeved (and there is plenty to be peeved about), that pretty much means no money for me.

I just want other black dancers out there to know that there is money out there to be made. There are black dancers out there who are making money so don't get discouraged and think that you can't make money, because we can. It's just a lot harder for us and more of a hassle. (But regular jobs are like that too.) We literally have to be the best dancer in the club (in terms of looks, hustling, attitude, and dancing ability) but we can do it.

I would also like to say that most of the customers that I have are, for the most part, respectful and polite to me, I have actually had to deal with a lot more crap from my fellow dancers who are hating on me becaue I am doing so well. When I first started, almost everyone was very kind to me because they didn't think I was going to make any money; and now they trash talk about me to the customers(most of the customers can see through that), threaten to cut my clothes up (or me up) or try to claim that I am a prostitute to the management or that I am a dirty dancer to get me fired (both of which are absolute b.s., I am the cleanest dancer there and if I were a prostitute why the hell do I have guys who keep coming back to pay to get dances from me.) They havn't really affected my earnings, they really should just work on themselves and they would earn more instead of hating but oh well.

Then again, I heard rumors that the manager hired me because he figured I wouldn't stay around long (he told the other girls, supposedly, that black girls don't do well at this club). I have also had every dj and bouncer that works there tell me that I am the "first black girl to do well here." The manager at one of the other girls that didn't hire me previously was a customer at the club I work at and literally treated me like a prostitute. Damn, I could go on and on.

I also believe that many more men in the USA are attracted to black women than it seems. It's just that many of them don't want to admit it in public. Angelina Jolie's lips to J. Lo's butt are things that a lot of black women have. White women getting butt implants, collagen injected everywhere, and risking skin cancer with excessive tanning is a testament to that. My main priority when I am with a customer, is that he feels comfortable enough with me to indulge in this.

As the old saying goes, we have to work twice as hard to go half as far. Even in regular jobs, whether it's at an office or a blue collar environment, we know that we can't take as many breaks as our co-workers, have to put in extra time and be more efficient and we are still seen as suspect compared to our white co-workers. I have had black professionals tell me how their jaws hurt from smiling 24 hours a day in order to make white associates feel more at ease.

I just try to keep my mind on the money and hopefully have enough to start my own business 10 years from now and enjoy watching my roth iras, cds, and stock grow to deal with all the b.s.

Sorry for such the long message, I just couldn't help it. Stay strong.

cinammonkisses
01-10-2007, 01:44 PM
Kali, don't apologize at all for this post. Actually, I wish you would post more often! I'm actually pretty happy that you've found a club (in Ohio) where they can show you some appreciation. Maybe the fact that it has something to deal with the fact that you're out by the airport (thus getting custies from across the country) helps some.

Stay up!

captain tom
01-10-2007, 06:39 PM
you need to find this guy at the club.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/cvnpoka/david-sklansky_422.jpg

cinammonkisses
01-10-2007, 08:51 PM
^^^ Actually, he looks like one of my old regulars lmao

Miss_Luscious
01-11-2007, 05:05 PM
Another troll. See this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8448402&an=0&page=0#Post8448402) thread