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SportsWriter2
01-25-2005, 08:10 PM
Lots of fun OTC encounters have no HG component, and we have had no thread for reporting them, because the first OTC thread was limited to HG reports.

So... this is the place. Lunch, dinner, theater, beach, hanging out, toking and "almost HG" now have a home. :)

Jenny
01-25-2005, 08:26 PM
What is HG?

SportsWriter2
01-25-2005, 08:37 PM
It's a beautiful summer day, and I wanna go to an ocean beach. If the hottest dancer I know offered to do it all at her place, I'd turn her down for Surfer Girl.

SG offered to meet me anytime I wanted, so I call at 11AM and wake her up. She can see sun shining through her window shades. We're on for 1PM.

Me: "I'll stop at Subway. You wanna split a turkey breast, no hot peppers, no onions?"
SG: "Yeah, I'll bring drinks and potato salad."
Me: "Bring your cut-off tee shirt."
SG: "Yeah, I got it. See ya soon."

SG is a fun, semi-responsible "girl next door" dancer. We get into it in the club with discreet inside moves, but we're just beach buddies outside. I've jokingly said, "I wanna f*ck you, but I'm too lazy." Too lazy to figure out what would work, actually, because she'd never take "fun friend" money, and I don't want it to be about love.

Shortly after 1PM, she actually shows up in the parking lot, beaming with pride for being "on time when you thought I wouldn't be." Hug, kiss, allocation of stuff to carry to the beach.

In the club, you'd say this girl is on the plain side. Not much make-up, not the cheerleader posture, but not much wrong with her when you look twice. Just-right nose, perky small B, whole-body tan, natural brown hair, cute little round butt.

When she's soaking wet on a boogie board, she looks GOOD. Her bikini would be conservative enough if her butt crack wasn't trying to eat it. But hey, this is why she's my Surfer Girl.

We usually set up just beyond the last lifeguard within view of a forty-something couple. I like to see envy in the husband's eyes and disgust in the wife's eyes. We play the suntan lotion game. She does the "probably gonna be topless soon" routine, flashing me but not quite the husband. I look at him and squeeze her nipple.

She's a fish in the water. We catch lots of good waves with hugs in between. We have matching yellow boards (mine) so I can't lose her.

When we come out, we eat and talk, then slowly roast together. We talk under a towel that covers both our faces. We talk about dumb mistakes we've made in life. Hers are mostly the five guys she's hooked up with lifetime.

Frisbee time. She pulls on her cut-off tee shirt, unties her top, and lets it fall on the beach blanket. We walk down the beach a quarter mile where the blankets are few and far between. If she has to reach up for a frisbee catch, I see a boob. I like this in a HS kind of way. It's like having a hot car that's barely street legal. She's a good hug in the tee when the game is over.

I put her bikini top on for her, and we hit the waves again.

When we're mostly dry later, she offers to buy me ice cream. Waiting in line, she sees a friend and introduces me. Apparently she's told all her friends in the 'hood about me. Cute.

At 4PM we both need to go, but we keep talking and hugging anyway. By 4:30 we start to pack. She wants to make believe we're having a baby, so she stands up, arches her back, and puffs out her tummy. I pat it like a proud sperm donor, and we head back to the parking lot.

Hug, kiss, "that was fun," and we're off in opposite directions. I never feel guilty about sports girls, and SG is a good one.

Las Vegas21
01-25-2005, 09:31 PM
Jenny, HG stands for "Holy Grail". I believe for most males that means sex outside the club with a stripper.

FBR
01-26-2005, 05:39 PM
I have one of these every week or so with Miss D. They're actually pretty fun. Just flirtation with no expectations of completion. She called me Monday early afternoon saying she would be off work around five and wanted to know it I had time for a drink and a food at Max and Ermas. I'm like...sweet ;D I love the no pay time. We hooked up and sat at the bar as is our custom. I ordered a salad but she went for the gusto with a butter flavored steak and bake potato. I wound up finishing her steak which was intimate in itself LOL

I really dont mind paying for the HG encounters as long as we can slip in some time that feels IRL. Miss D, I believe, understands my need for that and accomodates me. We dont talk about it per se...its just understood.

FBR

FONDL
02-16-2005, 05:35 AM
I've taken several dancers out to lunch or dinner, I think that's pretty common. I've also taken my ATF (she's no longer a dancer) lots of other places including jogging on the beach, to the gym, and shopping. She's very fitness oriented and so am I, so jogging and gym are common and fun events for us. I also find a clothing shopping trip to be especially fun because she's like a kid in a candy store, plus she never buys much so it's not an expensive trip, just a whole lot of fun. Plus I really enjoy her modeling all the clothes for me. But I've never had a girl offer to provide entertainment OTC, they always just want to keep it a friendly social event. That's OK with me but I'm curious about trying private entertainment, wish I knew how to get there from here. I've dropped lots of hints but never gotten a bite. Maybe it's because of the type dancer I go for.

yoda57us
02-17-2005, 09:16 AM
FONDL: In my experience, dropping hints gets you nowhere. If a lady is interested in OTC for cash or for free, she will let you know as soon as she feels you can be trusted. On the other hand, if she promises it after one LD, she is probably yanking your chain. I've had lunch/dinner OTC (no cash exchange) that never turned into HG but that wasn't what I was looking for or expecting anyway. Most of the time, the girls are relieved when the night ends and I haven't tried to get into their pants yet.

FBR
02-17-2005, 04:38 PM
Im with Yoda on this one. I think its better if the gal brings it up. In my case with Miss D, she broached the subject after we had been hanging out and doing dances for a while. I had zero expectations beyond the dances so it was a bonus round for me. One could argue that a guy can just keep fishing until he gets a bite, so to speak. That could work depending if you care if the dancers get upset with you or offended in some manner. I personally would just as soon wait...makes it a slam dunk if she brings it up. The thing not to do is to keep spending tons of money in the hope of getting OTC.

FBR

yoda57us
02-17-2005, 06:20 PM
The first dancer that I ever got friendly with used to spend hours sitting with me. She was always telling me how cool I was for not hitting on her to go out all the time like all of the "losers" who only tipped her to try and get into her pants. After that experience I just naturaly assumed for years that no dancer ever wanted to see a customer outside of work-for any reason. The first time a dancer approached me with the idea I was sure it was a hustle-and it was. It took me a few years and a few favs to finaly figure out when it was real and when it was BS.

mr_punk
02-19-2005, 12:23 PM
I've dropped lots of hints but never gotten a bite.dropping hints is a sucker's game. strippers may be flaky, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're stupid as well. in fact, i'm wouldn't be surprised if they're reading your hints loud and clear.


I also find a clothing shopping trip to be especially fun because she's like a kid in a candy store, plus she never buys much so it's not an expensive trip, just a whole lot of fun. Plus I really enjoy her modeling all the clothes for me. But I've never had a girl offer to provide entertainment OTC, they always just want to keep it a friendly social event. That's OK with me but I'm curious about trying private entertainment, wish I knew how to get there from here.Sweet Jiminy Christmas!:scared: if you're already taking strippers out shopping among other things. how about just making up your mind about what you want and asking for one? after all, isn't that why you asked them out in the first place? trust me, your question won't be a surprise to them. obviously, one can always continue to drop hints and hope his ship sails into port one day. of course, it never will. it's a slow boat to china.


Maybe it's because of the type dancer I go for.and would type would that be?

Katrine
02-19-2005, 03:03 PM
He likes those "innocent and real" strippers ;)

yoda57us
02-20-2005, 05:56 PM
Ah yes, I remember those...

SportsWriter2
02-20-2005, 06:22 PM
The ones who have been dancing 0-6 months. :)

yoda57us
02-20-2005, 08:11 PM
With less than 3 partners lifetime, right Sporty?

mr_punk
02-21-2005, 05:33 PM
He likes those "innocent and real" strippers<sigh>it's amazing how many guys start polishing up their armored suits over that "stripper with a heart of gold" act. what even more amazing is how many guys think that just because he's seeing some stripper OTC. he arrives at the erroneous conclusion that it's some kind of hustle free zone. he never realizes that some strippers really can't turn that switch off.

FBR
02-21-2005, 05:45 PM
While its fun to fantacize, when you open your wallet, before or after OTC, you know is business :-\

FBR

AWZeus
02-25-2005, 07:12 AM
<sigh>it's amazing how many guys start polishing up their armored suits over that "stripper with a heart of gold" act. what even more amazing is how many guys think that just because he's seeing some stripper OTC. he arrives at the erroneous conclusion that it's some kind of hustle free zone. he never realizes that some strippers really can't turn that switch off.

Ain't that the truth. I found it was always best to keep your expectations low when going OTC with a gal. That way, when she ultimately disappoints you, you won't be too disappointed.

=Z=

SportsWriter2
02-27-2005, 08:23 AM
With less than 3 partners lifetime, right Sporty?

Three guys or less. I'm not asking for the world here, Yoda. It has to be believable. ;)

yoda57us
02-27-2005, 11:05 AM
Oh, of course Sporty, 3 or less seems like a very reasonable benchmark. I'm assuming that these girls all present sworn, notarized affidavits to this effect. 'Cause otherwise, they might be scammin' ya';)

SportsWriter2
02-27-2005, 02:01 PM
Oh, of course Sporty, 3 or less seems like a very reasonable benchmark. I'm assuming that these girls all present sworn, notarized affidavits to this effect. 'Cause otherwise, they might be scammin' ya';)

I just ask for a certificate of authenticity, same as if I buy a baseball signed by Jose Canseco.

FBR
02-27-2005, 02:03 PM
Miss D claims five lifetime. Please dont tell me that warrants KTTC:O:-\ LOL

FBR

SportsWriter2
02-27-2005, 02:26 PM
Miss D claims five lifetime. Please dont tell me that warrants KTTC:O:-\ LOL

Five in the Clinton sense I would believe. ;)

I liked a Five who had a one-night stand and hated herself for it. It's not the literal number, it's the feelings of guilt that count.

IACali
02-28-2005, 09:39 AM
Hmmm. I think my numbers put me out of this league by, oh, a few digits. Heh. ;)

cali

Susan Wayward
02-28-2005, 10:14 AM
FBR, I can't believe that you would think Miss D would be less worthy no matter how many partners she'd had. You have a much healthier attitude towards women's sexuality than SW2.

Casual Observer
02-28-2005, 10:44 AM
Never understood the appeal of comparatively under- or inexperienced women--certainly not with knowing how I was with a similar experience level.

Two cents.

Katrine
02-28-2005, 05:19 PM
Well all women I know who count relatively few partners are liars. I know they've been with a lot of guys but they lie to themselves and others. My best friend is like that. I was with her the night she lost her virginity at 14, and we were friends through at least 20 of her partners yet she always claimed she'd never really had actual sex until she was in her 20's and living with this guy......considering you like BPP girls so much Sporty, I could see you loving this type of bullshit artist......

I've been around the block, or a major NYC boulevard, a couple of times. So fucking what.

FBR
02-28-2005, 05:28 PM
FBR, I can't believe that you would think Miss D would be less worthy no matter how many partners she'd had. You have a much healthier attitude towards women's sexuality than SW2.

Susan, my bad. I should have put a winkie after my post (ie: ;) ) I was just kidding and playing off SW2's posts ;D I'm sure my fondness for Miss D was very obvious :) Her adventures are her business (but Im open to listening to them if she wants to share ;D )

FBR

Susan Wayward
02-28-2005, 06:42 PM
Listening to them, hell! You want to participate ;)!

SportsWriter2
02-28-2005, 07:43 PM
I was with her the night she lost her virginity at 14, and we were friends through at least 20 of her partners yet she always claimed she'd never really had actual sex until she was in her 20's and living with this guy......considering you like BPP girls so much Sporty, I could see you loving this type of bullshit artist......
The BPD girls I've known all lied, then confessed in increments like 7, 15, 23 over a period of months.

I once told a favorite that her best friend only had five guys lifetime, and the favorite said, "I only know about two... that she had at my party last Saturday."


FBR, I can't believe that you would think Miss D would be less worthy no matter how many partners she'd had. You have a much healthier attitude towards women's sexuality than SW2.
Yes he does, but there's an inside joke to this. Sportswriter was an Internet character who gave out awards in metro Providence. I had to limit the dancers I spent money on, so I made a cult out of sports girls with A/B boobs, few partners, no smoke and no tattoos. Other dancers could still be friendly without feeling rejected, because it was MY problem. Sportswriter would rather surf than have sex.

My ATF BPD girl was up to 30 guys at 20, and almost 200 if you counted oral. But damn, she had the perfect prep school cheerleader look. :)

Moneywise
02-28-2005, 07:45 PM
I've been around the block, or a major NYC boulevard, a couple of times. So fucking what.

HOT!

Casual Observer
02-28-2005, 08:44 PM
I've been around the block, or a major NYC boulevard, a couple of times. So fucking what.

Just getting broken in...

;)

FBR
03-01-2005, 04:48 PM
Her adventures are her business (but Im open to listening to them if she wants to share ;D )

FBR



Listening to them, hell! You want to participate ;)!

;D Busted!!

FBR

FONDL
03-07-2005, 09:27 AM
Sorry I didn't respond sooner to the humorous comments about my style. Let me clarifiy a little in the unlikely event that anyone is interested. When I say I drop hints, that's an overstatement by quite a bit, what I should have said is that I try to leave the door open. I never hit on dancers unless they start it and I never say anything about OTC unless they bring it up first, which my current fav has recently started to do. I guess my quandry is I'm not sure if she means lunch/dinner or more than that and I don't know how to ask without risking offending her, so I'll just wait for her to suggest something concrete. And if nothing ever comes of it, that's fine with me, I don't go to clubs with any objective in mind other than to have fun.

When I spoke about taking a girl shopping, I'm referring to my ATF who quit dancing more than 6 years ago and now lives more than 1,000 miles from me and who has become a very close friend. We get together several times a year and when we do I enjoy buying her a present, which I'd rather have her pick out for herself, and she usually prefers clothing. Very little money is involved, it's just something we enjoy doing together once or twice a year.

Which raises an interesting question. When a dancer quits dancing her income often falls dramatically. For example my ATF probably makes about half what she did dancing, and that's a big improvement from where she was a couple of years ago. I know a lot of you have this connection that money and friendship don't mix, but in this case does that really make sense? Wouldn't a real friend help a girl make the transition to a "normal" life if he could afford it? I was her best customer when she danced and when she wanted to quit to try to improve her life I was her only customer who encouraged her to do so. Wouldn't I have been a hypocrite to then turn around and refuse to help? Anyway I continued to help her and the result has been a girl who is finally doing very well with her life and very close and rewarding friendship.

And to answer the other comment, yes, I prefer the young inexperienced dancers, especially the ones who are intelligent and highly motivated to better themselves. My ATF was 19 and had been dancing 3 days when we met. She just turned 28 and has a good career in a totally different field. We talk on the phone every day and visit each other when we can - I just got back from visiting her. My current fav is 22 and a full-time college student. Both girls have had serious drug problems and come from really shitty backgrounds. I enjoy helping them. I retired and can't think of anything I'd rather do with my money.

I admit it, I'm different (some would say weird.) And proud of it.

SportsWriter2
03-07-2005, 09:38 AM
FONDL, I started this thread wondering if someone else has had the same satisfying experiences I have. That was awesome! :)

FONDL
03-07-2005, 10:53 AM
Thanks, SW2. I expected some comments but I must admit I thought they'd be mostly negative. I'm puzzled by the commonly held view here that it's OK to pay a girl to take her clothes off but it's somehow wrong to give her money otherwise. I prefer to treat dancers as people rather than as sex objects but that seems to be a minority view. I'd be interested in hearing all about your experiences, either here or privately if you prefer. Sounds like we have some common interests and beliefs.

yoda57us
03-07-2005, 11:41 AM
Which raises an interesting question. When a dancer quits dancing her income often falls dramatically. For example my ATF probably makes about half what she did dancing, and that's a big improvement from where she was a couple of years ago. I know a lot of you have this connection that money and friendship don't mix, but in this case does that really make sense? Wouldn't a real friend help a girl make the transition to a "normal" life if he could afford it? I was her best customer when she danced and when she wanted to quit to try to improve her life I was her only customer who encouraged her to do so. Wouldn't I have been a hypocrite to then turn around and refuse to help? Anyway I continued to help her and the result has been a girl who is finally doing very well with her life and very close and rewarding friendship.

I admit it, I'm different (some would say weird.) And proud of it.

FONDL: You and I have been down this road on another board. Regardless of our differeing opinions about many topics on this I think we see eye to eye as I've been in your shoes. I have nothing but admiration and empathy for the way you helped your friend when she quit dancing. I'm sure she realizes that she is a very lucky lady to have such a good friend. There is no feeling like the one you get when you help someone just for the sake of helping them. Be proud and embrace your "wierdness". It comes with the wisdom of age and having the courage to do what ever the hell you want no matter what anyone else, even a bunch of rain -coaters on a web site, has to say about it.

Moneywise
03-07-2005, 12:59 PM
FONDL, although I couldn't see myself doing it (the right girl hasn't asked I guess) I do commend you for helping a person in need outside and away from the SC environment. Your former ATF is lucky to have someone caring and thoughtful just a phone call away. I think everyone enjoys having that luxury.

This thread doesn't excite me for whatever reason. I blame it all on mr_p. haha j/k man. However, I do enjoy reading the wonderful posts by others in here.

SportsWriter2
03-07-2005, 08:18 PM
I'd be interested in hearing all about your experiences, either here or privately if you prefer. Sounds like we have some common interests and beliefs.
Some dancers don't have dependable friends or family. If they take courses at a community college, no one encourages them. When they need to study, their party friends put them down. Trying to become middle-class can make you feel lonely.

When an older professional guy listens, gives good advice, and encourages healthy behaviors, it can make a big difference in a dancer's life. It's not really about giving money, because that can encourage "poor me" behaviors. It's more about being there. I encourage dancers to use e-mail.

It's scary when someone who only knows your first name says, "You're my best friend" or "You're the only person in my life I really trust."

I helped one dancer through AA and into a nursing career. I gave her money to make ends meet when she wanted to give up. $600 total, but in the two years she danced, she would never accept more than $80 from me when I saw her in the club.

Some dancers think this kind of relationship is hot, and we get into it, but the one I like most is almost asexual. Knowing you made a difference with relatively little effort is a BIG rush. :)

FONDL
03-08-2005, 07:53 AM
I should have added two other thoughts to my post but I was trying not to get too long. First, she never asked me for money. In fact the opposite is true; for a long time she wouldn't accept my help because she was raised never to trust anyone and she coulnd't believe that there were no strings attached. It took a long time (I'm speaking years) for her to trust me completely and I'm probably the first man in her life who she ever did trust completely, it's one of the things I taught her. Second, all her family and friends tried to talk her out of quitting dancing, I think for two reasons. First, she was supporting several other members of her family who were sponging off of her. And second, losers never want to see someone else with their background succeed because then they have to face the fact that they could too; they'd much rather blame society for their problems. Anyway, that's why I encouraged and helped her move a 1,000 miles south, so she could remove herself from that negative environment that was trying to hold her back. It seems to have worked.

-p-
03-09-2005, 07:25 PM
Good for you.

FONDL
03-10-2005, 11:49 AM
One other thought - this girl is probably as driven to succeed as anyone I've ever met. Throw a problem in front of her and she just tires harder. She once told me why she's like that - she said ever since she was little everybody around her (I'm talking family) told her she was a piece of shit and would never amount to anything, so she's determined to prove them wrong. I probably woundlt have any interest in helping someone who wasn't willing to help themselves. This girl is a really hard worker. Even if I hadn't helped her she would have made it, I just made it a little easier for her.

SportsWriter2
03-10-2005, 12:07 PM
Well said, FONDL. I look for the same thing and really admire people who work hard to overcome adversity. :)

FONDL
03-11-2005, 10:55 AM
SW2, what I find interesting (and a little sad) is how many girls like that I've met in strip clubs. It seems to me to be pretty common. That's exactly the kind of girl I look for when I go clubbing and I never seem to have much trouble finding one, intelligent girls from really shitty backgrounds who are busting their butt to overcome adversity.

NVJosh
03-11-2005, 12:24 PM
There's a lot of pyschology behind that, in that a lot of dancers come from backgrounds where they struggled or weren't treated well or were told they weren't good enough. While they see dancing as a way to make money and to overcome adversity, there is a part of them that also sees it as a "bad" profession, so they get to reinforce their beliefs about not being good enough, in many cases, not being good enough for a "normal" job. Their conscious desires are at war with their subconscious beliefs about themselves. I think even the reason they are open about this stems from the fact that they hold a belief that if they tell you about them, you'll consider them "not good enough", too. I'm certainly not saying this applies to all dancers, I've just met more than a few where its definitely the case.

FONDL
03-11-2005, 02:02 PM
NVJ, that's interesting and I don't disagree, but I think the explanation is often a lot simpler than that. I'd guess that many young dancers got into it partly because they knew someone who was already dancing who told them how much money they could make. That probably doesn't happen with very many girls from "normal" upper middle-class families but I've found it to be pretty common among the girls who I've met in clubs. In fact I've run into a lot of girls whose mother or some other close relative had worked in a strip club and encouraged them to try it. My ATF's mother had worked as a waitress in the club where she worked and at least one of the strippers had lived in her home with them when she was growing up (which is how my ATF was introduced to drugs.) Plus two of her cousins were working at the club when she started working there. When you are raised with that kind of background, stripping probably seems pretty normal to you. Just like doing drugs - everyone she knew growing up did drugs, she thought everybody did.

FBR
03-12-2005, 03:45 PM
Miss D is sort of the polar opposite from the stereotypical dancer who comes from a broken home and spends all her time doing drugs etc. Her parents are still married after 26 years. Her dad is a medical professional while her mom is pretty high up the food chain in one of the local school districts. Miss D laughingly told me they're "still in love" and go out on dates and stuff like that. She calls them "dorks" but I can tell she doesn't mean it in a bad way. I suspect what they have is what she secretly hopes to have one of these days when she finds the right guy.

Miss D has never been married and has no children. She has her Masters and is presently teaching at a local university while working on her Phd. Her parents know she dances but they took it pretty hard when they found out. She was "outed" by a bitter ex-fiance which is a whole nuther story in itself. Miss D doesn't do illegal drugs (although she can drink me under the table). She has somewhat of a wild side but all in all, I think she'd qualify as pretty "normal" by most guy's definition.

So why does she dance? One obvious answer is money. She receives a modest stipend from the university but to live on that she'd have to tighten her belt uncomfortably. A downsized apartment, a beater car instead of the '03 SUV she drives and certainly not two walk-in closets full of nice clothes. Dancing more than doubles her income and in her words its "easy money". She freely admits though that if she had to live exclusively on her dancing income like many of her co-workers must it would be a different story. A bad night is not a diaster for her and a good one is a bonus.

The other attraction of dancing, I believe, is the social environment of the club...including the drama which I can tell she enjoys (as long as it's someone elses). She can hang out during her 4 hour shift talking to people, male and female, drink and party, work as much or as little as she wants and leave it all behind at shift change. She's friendly to most but so far as I know has no real friendships from there beyond the superficial. The ladies go out and party occasionally but that's about it. Between teaching and working on her doctorate (which is a huge multi-year commitment) she really doesn't have much time for deep relationships, particularly with men. What she gets from the club (and admittedly from me as an ITC and OTC "friend") fills a need in a fairly uncomplicated and "controlled" way.

Miss D is at one end of the spectrum. Sadly, I know a few of the gals who are at the extreme opposite end living pretty screwed up lives. Most of the gals are somewhere in the middle, working, trying to take care of their families and hopefully trying to do a little better each day. If you think about it, this pretty much mirrors what we may have experienced or observed in our own "real" lives. There are angels and demons, male and female, at the office too.

FBR

Nicolina
03-12-2005, 04:12 PM
Nice post, FBR. I can relate to your Miss D. Thanks for that.

Moneywise
03-12-2005, 04:16 PM
Nice post, FBR.

http://www.adultnetsurprise.com/forums/images/smilies/new/clap.gif

Katrine
03-12-2005, 07:52 PM
I can also relate to Miss D. Although I am far more psycho and enjoy, ummm recreation, she sounds like my kinda strippa!

FONDL
03-13-2005, 01:22 PM
Very interesting FBR. I've never met a dancer like that but I don't doubt that there are a lot of them out there. As I've said before, I don't think dancers are all that different than other people their age, they cover the entire spectrum. Sure there are a lot of screwed up ones, but there are a lot of screwed up people who aren't dancers too, especially young people who haven't found their niche yet. I certainly was pretty screwed up at that age.