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erotictonic
03-26-2005, 01:00 PM
Wait, i'm confused.

I thought that killing people was wrong ? Isn't that the point of the "culture of life" debate ? Or did I just misunderstand the protesting point?

Imo, killing someone who has killed an innocent person is not wrong. I believe in an eye for an eye. I believe in capital punishment. And justice here has not been served. If I could get away with it, I would kill him myself. You must fight fire with fire, not water.

Why do I believe this? Because if criminals were ACTUALLY receiving punishment, instead of just jailtime where they can look at porn, watch tv, get alcohol, drugs and cigs, work-out, and otherwise have a big ole time, then maybe they would think twice about committing horrendous crimes against innocent people.

It would teach the criminals a good lesson if this guy got killed by a good person. He deserves to die, and not only die, but die in the way he killed his victim. If he gets away with this, more people will think they can too.

I am not religious.

Rhiannon
03-26-2005, 02:02 PM
I agree with ET. I am a firm supporter of "Eye for an Eye". You take a life, yours is taken in return. I don't believe the debate is over life in general. It's about a man who is "legally" murdering his wife. He has been backed by the legal system for years because he is the only one who has say over her, she's his wife. But, that's only on paper. In my opinion he gave up all rights to her back in '91 when he begun trying to kill her, denying her every suggested treatment or any rights that ALL people are afforded.

What he and the courts are doing IS murder. They couldn't give a shit less about the facts in the case. Terri was NOT dying before last Friday. She is now, and they've caused it.

He'll get his.. One way or another.

I'm not Christian or religious by "accepted" standards, but I DO believe that EVERY single life is valuable, no matter what.

erotictonic
03-26-2005, 02:12 PM
I don't believe the debate is over life in general. It's about a man who is "legally" murdering his wife.



Totally! People are getting so caught up in the living will stuff, but actually, this is a murder case.

I mention religion because some people just assume if you are this "extreme" on crime, that you must be some religious "nut". Tis not the case a lot of the time. Some of us simply have empathy and humanity within. I don't need to follow someone else's ideas in order to know what is right.

polecat
03-26-2005, 02:23 PM
Well I have most of what I have to say about this shitstorm case in the Political Poo forum.

I do believe we have a murder case, obvious obstruction of justice, as well as obstruction of evidence and no one is doing anything about it.

I'm DONE with the state of Florida until the good people there make some serious changes with their local government. I was pissed off at the political wrangling during the Bush/Gore election, and I'm even more pissed that an adulterous and sociopathic husband is now given license to brutally kill his wife against her will while no one is willing to go to bat for her. This would NOT happen here in California... EVER.

The Shindlers also need to fire their lawyer.. a long time ago. Evidence they've had since 1998 is now hitting appeals due to the fact he's had insufficient resources to handle the onslaught of motions and strike order sbombarded by the expensive legal team Mr. Schiavo has from the massive settlements money ($600K dropped on his lap over the years.. this is aside from the 700K in the trust fund, which who knows how much is left- much of the hospice care has been free or provided). Not only that, but getting Judge Greer expelled from the case would be easy as pie. The guy is legally blind from the state of Florida (not allowed to drive even with corrective lenses), yet a landslide amount of evidence is in the form of pictures and videotapes that he has deemed inconclusive. It would take one hearing with some visual aids to force a mistrial and re-assignment.

Ann Coulter (an extremist, I know) has accusations that Judge Greer was also responsible for failing to offer protection to a woman in the past who was shortly stabbed to death by her husband. His denial of protection makes him accountable for her death. How many women must die at his hands before someone cries foul?

We are witnessing 'legal murder' here. It's just sad some people have decided to use this woman's life for partisan politics.

Rhiannon
03-26-2005, 02:32 PM
I agree completely, PC.

I don't understand what is so damn hard about giving Terri just enough to sustain her and keep her alive while evidence is TRULY examined. People need to observe her. Hell, the JUDGE and POLITICIANS themselves should be in there observing her.

If Michael hadn't banned the use of cameras long ago, I'm sure that they could've gotten Terri's response to news that she was going to die on tape for all to see. What sickens me most is that this monster KNOWS what he's doing. He's slowly made her rot and now he's finishing the job.

Sick.

I've stayed out of the PP thread regarding the case for obvious reasons.. (One being that going in there is like jumping into a tank full of sharks who haven't eaten in weeks, another being that I hate discussing politics.) But, I think I've made it clear where I stand, and why I stand for what I do.

erotictonic
03-26-2005, 02:33 PM
Well I have most of what I have to say about this shitstorm case in the Political Poo forum.

I do believe we have a murder case, obvious obstruction of justice, as well as obstruction of evidence and no one is doing anything about it.

I'm DONE with the state of Florida until the good people there make some serious changes with their local government. I was pissed off at the political wrangling during the Bush/Gore election, and I'm even more pissed that an adulterous and sociopathic husband is now given license to brutally kill his wife against her will while no one is willing to go to bat for her. This would NOT happen here in California... EVER.

The Shindlers also need to fire their lawyer.. a long time ago. Evidence they've had since 1998 is now hitting appeals due to the fact he's had insufficient resources to handle the onslaught of motions and strike order sbombarded by the expensive legal team Mr. Schiavo has from the massive settlements money ($600K dropped on his lap over the years.. this is aside from the 700K in the trust fund, which who knows how much is left- much of the hospice care has been free or provided). Not only that, but getting Judge Greer expelled from the case would be easy as pie. The guy is legally blind from the state of Florida (not allowed to drive even with corrective lenses), yet a landslide amount of evidence is in the form of pictures and videotapes that he has deemed inconclusive. It would take one hearing with some visual aids to force a mistrial and re-assignment.

Ann Coulter (an extremist, I know) has accusations that Judge Greer was also responsible for failing to offer protection to a woman in the past who was shortly stabbed to death by her husband. His denial of protection makes him accountable for her death. How many women must die at his hands before someone cries foul?

We are witnessing 'legal murder' here. It's just sad some people have decided to use this woman's life for partisan politics.

TOTALLY RIGHT ON.

FLORIDA SUCKS. I think all dancers should move, if only to protect themselves and their rights.

I do agree that Judge Greer is a piece of shit who needs to be brought down. I just can't imagine all times he has assisted in the abuse of women. It just makes me sick with anger. I'm glad that sick fuck is almost ready to kick the bucket.

And yes, if the family had their senses about them, they would've fired that lawyer a long time ago.

DJ_Duane
03-26-2005, 03:16 PM
I have some experience with making decisions over the life of some one who was permanently on life support: my mother.

In 1992, my mother died of ovarian cancer. Years before that happened, she made it clear - absolutely clear - to myself and others, that if she were confined to a hospital bed and be permanently on life support with no hope of recovery, then her specific demand was that all life support be terminated, if she were in a vegetative state.

None of us, her five children, ever thought that such an event would happen. Perhaps we thought that she might die quickly, of a heart attack or car accident or her death would occur over such a short period of time that making a decision over terminating her life support would never be needed.

In February 1992, our worst nightmare came true. Our mother slipped into a coma after thirteen years of fighting ovarian cancer. She had been hospitalized for less than two weeks.

All that was keeping her alive was the hospital's life support unit. However, she still had higher brain function. So, she could come out of the coma or she might not. We didnt know at the time.

We received the news from the oncologist of her prognosis and he left us in a waiting room to make a decision.

We sat around in silence, some of us were crying, especially my sister Yvonne who was closest to my mother. We all knew what our mother's wishes were regarding being kept alive solely on life support. We all looked at each other with the same unspoken question, "Who will be the one to turnoff the machines or give the order to do so?". None of us wanted to be the one to do it. We wanted some one else to do it. "Anybody but me." was the collective motto that night.

My brother, Robert, was adamantly opposed to terminating life support under any circumstances. He heldout hope that our mother would recover and get well enough to go home. A medical impossibility.

Our mother's boyfriend had no place in the decision-making process. He was not a blood relative. Neither I nor Robert would consider allowing him to provide any input, as he had treated us both like trash as we were growing-up. The decision would be left to her five children. Her family - our uncles and aunts - kept to themselves and relied on our judgement, thinking it best. I would have preferred that they decided, being her own brothers and sisters. They say "Life isnt fair." and they're right. It isnt. This was the hardest, cruelest day in our lives and the five of us had to wrestle with the biggest and most difficult decision we would ever make.

As we discussed this, it was decided that the oldest child, Paul, would be the one to speak for us. Whatever decision was reached, he would convey it to the doctors. The physical act of turning-off the life support would be left to our mother's physician.

The fact that our mother had made it clear to all of us long beforehand that she wanted life support terminated if there was no hope of recovery weighed heavily on all of us. We knew her wishes and, yet, we wished we hadnt.

Robert would hold-out hope, but the rest of us wrestled with exactly when we would specify the life support to be turned-off.

Actually, it was me who came to the decision and left it out for the others to consider: when our mother experienced brain death and the loss of higher brain functions, then the machines would be turned-off. When our mother could no longer think, when the person and personality of our mother was gone, then her body should be allowed to die and her spirit released to the Next Life. To keep her soul trapped in her body would have been the worst thing we could ever have done to her.

This seemed the most agreeable course to take. Our mother may still be able to hear us and know we were with her. We could still talk to her and she may be able to understand us. We all wanted the chance to talk to her while she was alive and for her to hear us. We all wanted to make our peace with her and say our good-byes.

Paul passed the word to the doctors and they made arrangements for our mother's continued care for as long as needed, until she experienced brain death and loss of higher brain functions.

It was settled. At least, it seemed so.

In less than a day, our mother came out of her coma. Though unable to speak, she had the ability to communicate by nodding her head and to write a little at a time on a clipboard. The relief we all felt came as a sudden rush, like a hurricane. For a little while, we began to hope she actually might recover and go home, though the doctors said it was impossible. Her condition would worsen, they said, until she faded completely and died.

Over the next few days, our mother made her final wishes known regarding the disposal of her property. She accepted that she was going to die soon and she wanted everything taken care of. Who got what, in other words. My sister, Yvonne, would see to the actual disbursement of property, as I couldnt bring myself to volunteer for the job. Mom also informed everyone that for the previous four years I had been her primary means of financial support, working as a DJ at a strip club and giving her the money she need to pay her bills and live comfortably.

It seemed that she was holding-on until she believed everything was taken care of. Once it seemed so, she began to slip in and out of a coma.

On 9 February 1992, mom died. The end came quickly. I was not there when it happened, though I was the last one to visit her the night before. My sister, LaVerne, was there, as she took on the role of caretaker since she had nursing experience.

Though we were saddened by her death, we were grateful that she was no longer suffering. We all had our chance to say our good-byes and make our respective peace with her and she with us. We had our chance to prepare ourselves for the inevitable.

Would we actually have done it? Would we have given the order to turn-off life support? We'll never know.

Personally, I'm glad the decision was taken out of our hands.

Bunny
03-26-2005, 05:34 PM
I think that nature or God or (higher force name you prefer) made the choice with poor Terri along time ago


this is exactly the point my mother brought up when we started discussing this. I'm getting a living will on Monday from an attorney so this will never happen to me. When it's my time to go, please, just let me go.

samart
03-26-2005, 09:45 PM
Good idea Bunny. If anyone will learn anything from this, learn that you need to have a will made and put it in place of what YOUR intentions would be in a situation like this.

Personally, I think this whole situation is sad all around. Family fighting against each other, and our government sticking their noses in a place where it doesn't belong.

IACali
03-27-2005, 12:47 AM
I agree with ET. I am a firm supporter of "Eye for an Eye".

Iy-yiy-yiy. Not me, said the little hen.

Eye for an eye until no one's left, that's how it would go. Sure, let's say my mom gets killed in a gas station robbery.

So my brother kills her murderer, leaving three kids and a grieving family.

The dead guy's uncle kills my brother.

My brother's wife hires a hit man to kill the uncle.

Repeat endlessly.

Not cool.:'(

erotictonic
03-27-2005, 06:34 AM
Iy-yiy-yiy. Not me, said the little hen.

Eye for an eye until no one's left, that's how it would go. Sure, let's say my mom gets killed in a gas station robbery.

So my brother kills her murderer, leaving three kids and a grieving family.

The dead guy's uncle kills my brother.

My brother's wife hires a hit man to kill the uncle.

Repeat endlessly.

Not cool.:'(

No LOL. Once the guilty party is dead, the eye-for-an-eye chain is completed. All it does is kill off the people who commit crimes.

Pamela
03-27-2005, 10:15 AM
Yesterday you would not believe the amount of people asking for wills! Holy crap.

I had a guy friend last night say, "i damn sure would not want to be him." (her husband)

Now i watch the news knowing they are not going to insert her feed tube again, and it is a very sad day....Fucking Easter......Does this guy have no fucking brain.....

Even if she dies 3 days from now, people are eating, having chocolate, liquids, snacks....Gosh at least give her a day on Easter to eat a full meal, can't he grant her that much?

I thought the woman was in a deep coma a few years back, and did not follow this story, now knowing what i do, i am sad, very sad.

We had a couple people wearing pins saying "save Terri" on them....breaks my heart, i am at a loss for words now, it's sad, but i keep checking the news for more info. on her.

Pamela

VenusGoddess
03-27-2005, 10:52 AM
If she dies, I say that her parents should charge little Mikey with wrongful death, cruel and inhumane treatment and then let the state have a field day with the evidence in a murder trial. Maybe the judge in this case is too blind (literally) to see the evidence, but with a completely different lawsuit, they should have another judge.

This judge should get sanctioned.

polecat
03-27-2005, 03:23 PM
Eye for an eye until no one's left, that's how it would go. Sure, let's say my mom gets killed in a gas station robbery.

So my brother kills her murderer, leaving three kids and a grieving family.
Actually, this only works in Hollywood.

An armed robber doesn't make for a very good husband or father, so in the real world, the mother and children would be hugging and kissing the adulterous and psychopathic father's killer.

Now if the armed robber had a psychopathic brother, he might continue the chain for revenge, but in turn it does indeed stop once all the criminal elements are disposed of at the hands of a few vigilante's fighting the good fight.

Mr Hyde
03-27-2005, 05:05 PM
I guess I am the only one that supports the husband in this.

I just don't see how 19 different courts looking at this could be wrong.

And the attempts to paint the husband as evil...you all are buying into a right wing depiction, somewhat like the abortion protesters who put hit lists of abortion doctors on the web. I know people who know him. He's not a bad guy. He's only doing what he thinks his wife would want. How unreasonable is it to assume that she wouldn't want to live in her condition? Would anyone here want to be kept alive in that state?

Mr Hyde
03-27-2005, 05:09 PM
and let me add this...the bottom line.

This evidence brought up above from the nurses is not new. These statements from one (of many)doctors that contradicts all the others and several courts findings that she is in a "persistent vegetative state " presents nothing new.

The statements from the nurses quoted above are not new and have been heard by several courts and discredited or at least discounted. They are several years old, and apparently the nurses are not nurses, they are CNAs with little to no medical training, and all admit to having extreme bias toward right-to-life causes.

The attempts to highlight this evidence again and again or to get someone new to espouse it "off the record" years after the trail is pandering to the ill informed or biased groups who support the parents position.

The attempts to paint the husband in a bad light are not just irrelevant they are down right sick and disgraceful. The courts heard all these arguments and either found them irrelevant or not credible.

The courts have found after MANY hearings and consideration of ALL the evidence (not just that which the press or the parents would have you hear) that;
(1) Terri is in a persistent vegetative state.
(2) her wish was not to be kept alive under these circumstances.

The use of this case by the politicians at the state, much less the federal level is not only wrong legally, it is disgusting and shameful. That should be apparent even to those who agree with the parents position.

Case closed.

erotictonic
03-27-2005, 05:15 PM
and let me add this...the bottom line.

This evidence brought up above from the nurses is not new. These statements from one (of many)doctors that contradicts all the others and several courts findings that she is in a "persistent vegetative state " presents nothing new.

The statements from the nurses quoted above are not new and have been heard by several courts and discredited or at least discounted. They are several years old, and apparently the nurses are not nurses, they are CNAs with little to no medical training, and all admit to having extreme bias toward right-to-life causes.

The attempts to highlight this evidence again and again or to get someone new to espouse it "off the record" years after the trail is pandering to the ill informed or biased groups who support the parents position.

The attempts to paint the husband in a bad light are not just irrelevant they are down right sick and disgraceful. The courts heard all these arguments and either found them irrelevant or not credible.

The courts have found after MANY hearings and consideration of ALL the evidence (not just that which the press or the parents would have you hear) that;
(1) Terri is in a persistent vegetative state.
(2) her wish was not to be kept alive under these circumstances.

The use of this case by the politicians at the state, much less the federal level is not only wrong legally, it is disgusting and shameful. That should be apparent even to those who agree with the parents position.

Case closed.

There is too much evidence otherwise.... timelines presented that show a reason to think evidence has been tampered with, he wants his wife dead, that she was a victim of head trauma when she entered the hospital, etc. etc. The nurses were never allowed to testify. The case has been handled by other courts but always the court judgements were overruled by judge Greer, according to timelines. This case in essence has been handled by one judge and one court, and they used doctors who were pro-death. You need to read more on the case.

How could you know if Terri is in a persistent vegetative state? She never received an MRI or petscan.

You just assume that a sociopath is telling the truth???? To say "I know people who know him and he's not a bad guy" is just laughable. YOU don't know him, so why would you be pulling for him, unless you were one of them? Yea, people loved my ex, he was a charming little underhanded fucker. And I'm sure he's got tons of people who would say he's a good guy. He would've killed me if he could have gotten away with it. Is he still a good guy?

You need to go to Political Poo and check out the evidence. I'm not buying shit.... I have read tons of info on this case and watched many news sources. This is what I have concluded form the evidence presented. I am not pro-life or pro-death. I am reasonable.

He was a negligent husband and an adulterer, at the very very least. But, I truly believe that he murdered his wife. You need to research and allow all the evidence to be presented before you make a decision.

Rhiannon
03-27-2005, 05:24 PM
There's absolutely nothing political about how I feel about this case, Mr Hyde. I'm not buying into a damn thing. The facts speak for themselves. If he was such a supportive, loving husband.. He would've made every damn effort to help her get better. Which, back in '91 when he stopped all therapy and treatment it could've damn sure helped her. The damage to her brain was GRADUAL and progressed over time, 15 years of it. During this time he's allowed her to rot, rather than do anything to improve her situation. Doctors had offered suggested medical treatments, and he REFUSED every damn one.

I personally don't give a shit who knows him, or whose friends know him. He's a cruel, heartless bastard who abandoned his wife instead of helping her when he was the only one who could authorize treatment. He's used that power fully, to the point of ending her life.

The key word here is that he's doing what he THINKS she would've wanted. No one will ever know what she wanted, or what REALLY caused this to happen to her, thanks to him. They won't even have answers after her death. He's taken care of that as well: no autopsy to be performed and immediate cremation. Why do you suppose he's doing that? Sounds like a guy with a LOT of secrets he doesn't want revealed.

"Not a bad guy", my ass.

Unfortunately, there is nothing more that anyone can do for Terri. THAT is the only tragedy here. SHE is the victim. Michael Schiavo is FAR from the grieving husband he portrays himself to be. As soon as Terri's gone, he'll go and live his happy life with a new wife and the 2 children they've had together. But, he will also live in constant fear, which is what he deserves.

Mr Hyde
03-27-2005, 05:38 PM
No offense, but as I said above, you all have totally bought in to propaganda.

Mr Hyde
03-27-2005, 05:42 PM
I will add this though...

If I were Micheal Schiavo, I'd divorce Terri and give power of attorney to the parents. Even though they are beyond reason in their belief that Terri is still "there," it's obvious that their emotional state is so severe that they "need" Terri's shell to help them.

The perfect script to this would that he gives them power, and then they pull the plug.

By the way, feeding tubes are pulled every week in this country. This is not a new thing, if you think it is.

polecat
03-27-2005, 05:48 PM
The statements from the nurses quoted above are not new and have been heard by several courts and discredited or at least discounted.
Actually, this is complete misinformation. NO THEY HAVEN'T.

The sworn testimony and signed affidavits from opposing doctors AND care givers/nurses were never heard nor discredited. They were deemed "untimely" and disallowed to enter the trial or filed as evidence.



The attempts to highlight this evidence again and again or to get someone new to espouse it "off the record" years after the trail is pandering to the ill informed or biased groups who support the parents position.
Actually, it's a cry out for rationality of why tons and tons of evidence isn't given the chance to ever hit the courtroom. Only selective, pro-Michael Schiavo evidence is being allowed. Judge Greer is denying anything the Schindlers wish to be admitted.

Their lawyer is partially to blame- he didn't think facts or evidence had an expiration date. His resources also aren't as extensive as Michael's as the family was denied every single penny of Terri's settlements. This has kept the family's attorneys busy with the onslaught of motions, strike order and other legal devices over the years.



The attempts to paint the husband in a bad light are not just irrelevant they are down right sick and disgraceful. The courts heard all these arguments and either found them irrelevant or not credible.
Once again.. complete and total misinformation.

If the courts actually did hear or allow any of the evidence submitted, there wouldn't even be any outcry. It's just a shame so much evidence didn't get the chance to be analyzed and be heard- which is what happens when you have a small family budget and a few special interest groups going against $600K+ of settlement attorney fees.



The courts have found after MANY hearings and consideration of ALL the evidence (not just that which the press or the parents would have you hear) that;
(1) Terri is in a persistent vegetative state.
(2) her wish was not to be kept alive under these circumstances.
And if selective inclusion of evidence were penetrated and forced into any court of law, any wrongful conclusion could easily be ruled upon.

Example- I could find 5-10 people and pay them to testify that you're a multi-colored homosexual that likes to use pecans for erotic suppositories while humming Beethoven. I could easily prove this in a court of law if I could motion to deny 1000's of witnesses, pictures, tests and testimony disproving this notion.

It comes down to the massive onslaught of evidence that was late-entry and deemed 'untimely' or otherwise disallowed to enter trial.

There are more than enough angles to force a mistrial, and more than enough circumstantial evidence to at least cause anyone with a level-head to question Michael's defense.

Why, when Michael sent Terri to California for 'advanced therapy' procedures did he disallow a petscan multiple times? Why has Michael, since 1991, strongly signed AMA forms to prevent any neurologist from ever performing this industry-accepted, highly accurate test? It leaves no room for interpretation as it models biochemistry. Either a part of the brain has activity or it doesn't. The only scans allowed to be performed leave massive room for interpretation. They only model densities, from which professionals can argue or interpret differently.

Also, why is the state of Florida denying a divorce? Michael doesn't dispute he has had sex.. and even conceived children with another woman while still being married to Terri. By Florida state law, this is considered adultery and a basis of divorce. Judge Greer just decided to throw out this factual evidence and any form of divorce trial for multiple years has not been heard.

Lastly, Judge Greer is legally blind by the state of Florida. He isn't allowed to drive, even with corrective lenses. Much evidence provided by the Schindlers' attorney has been in the form of pictures, diagrams and videotapes- yet he has ruled them as inconclusive when he doesn't have the visual capability to do so. Any motion to have him removed from the case... or desire to use visual aids to test his abilities to rule on visual evidence has been denied or disallowed.

The list goes on and on. CASE CLOSED? Nope- and it wont be for several months after Terri has been killed/starved to death.

erotictonic
03-27-2005, 05:54 PM
No offense, but as I said above, you all have totally bought in to propaganda.

And as I said before, you need to do some research.

erotictonic
03-27-2005, 05:56 PM
I will add this though...

If I were Micheal Schiavo, I'd divorce Terri and give power of attorney to the parents. Even though they are beyond reason in their belief that Terri is still "there," it's obvious that their emotional state is so severe that they "need" Terri's shell to help them.

The perfect script to this would that he gives them power, and then they pull the plug.

By the way, feeding tubes are pulled every week in this country. This is not a new thing, if you think it is.

He won't divorce her. Why do you think that is? For the same reason he won't allow any rehabilitation, because he is afraid she will rehabilitate under her parent's care and be able to tell the truth.

Go to political poo instead of posting here what people have already talked about. READ.

Mr Hyde
03-27-2005, 05:59 PM
I've read enough, I'm just not reading propaganda.

But I know I won't change your mind, so I won't try.

Rhiannon
03-27-2005, 05:59 PM
No offense, but as I said above, you all have totally bought in to propaganda.

Uh no.. It's all based on facts, not the facts represented by the media or political views, but research that I have done concering this case. Call it whatever you'd like though.

Honestly. Research a little.

Every point that you've attempted to dismiss has proof to back it up. What do you have? Statements made by Michael Schiavo, or Felos? Sorry, but by the evidence I've seen, neither of them have any credibility whatsoever.

As I've said about any issue I believe strongly in, there is no point in trying to change my view or get me to see things another way. It's not happening, so don't bother trying.

Mr Hyde
03-27-2005, 06:05 PM
geesh, I hate when I say I won't try anymore and then I do...

How many courts must this be tried in front of before you will be ok with the ruling that keeps getting handed down?

Would it help to know that the current judge is a pro-life conservative Baptist who is being banned from his church for making the decision he's made?

polecat
03-27-2005, 06:19 PM
How many courts must this be tried in front of before you will be ok with the ruling that keeps getting handed down?
Just one court.. any one court willing to actually hear the evidence would do nicely.

polecat
03-27-2005, 06:28 PM
Now i watch the news knowing they are not going to insert her feed tube again, and it is a very sad day....Fucking Easter......Does this guy have no fucking brain.....
Michael made this a non-option as he motioned to have the actual unit surgically removed rather than unplugged.

It would take carting her into the OR to have a new one installed. Does this not point even further towards his true motives?

Lastly, Michael's lawyer has been on the TV bragging that Terri is to be instantly cremated with no autopsy performed by Michael's wishes. Moreover, he also had the audicity to discuss sounds and noises she was trying to make when he went in to see her.

Mr Hyde
03-27-2005, 06:29 PM
OK I'll stop now after this post, because it's obvious that reason is not in play here.

The courts have examined ALL the evidence. There is NO more to be examined. In spite of what you've read, this case has been heard fairly and completely. I'm sorry it's not coming down the way you like, but to say that it hasn't been heard completely is an insult to our judicial system. Feeding tubes are pulled all the time, this is not an inhumane way for someone to die, either.

I still haven't seen anyone here say that they'd prefer to be kept alive in that state.

SthnrnGrl77
03-27-2005, 06:35 PM
dont' forget pole, he wants her cremated asap.

SthnrnGrl77
03-27-2005, 06:37 PM
, either.

I still haven't seen anyone here say that they'd prefer to be kept alive in that state.

I wouldn't want my family tormented either. I wouldn't want to be denied last communion like he has. I wouldn't want my husband screwing around/ popping out kids while I lay rotting away in a hospital bed and denied therapy.

why did he deny her therapy, anyway ?

erotictonic
03-27-2005, 06:40 PM
OK I'll stop now after this post, because it's obvious that reason is not in play here.

How dare you tell us we can't reason, when you won't even accept new evidence. IF you want to call someone unreasonable, then you had better READ the evidence first, and accept it. Like I said, read Political Poo, read the timelines. Either you have been lying, or you have been lied to. YOU are the one who is being completely irrational and unreasonable.

The courts have examined ALL the evidence. There is NO more to be examined. In spite of what you've read, this case has been heard fairly and completely. I'm sorry it's not coming down the way you like, but to say that it hasn't been heard completely is an insult to our judicial system. Feeding tubes are pulled all the time, this is not an inhumane way for someone to die, either.

I still haven't seen anyone here say that they'd prefer to be kept alive in that state.

There's a reason why it's being investigated. Like I said, you either won't accept the evidence and are lying, or you have been lied to.

Rhiannon
03-27-2005, 06:41 PM
Exactly, PC.. Nurses even documented Terri's state after visits from Michael. She would be extremely aggitated, with a look of fear in her eyes. She also had her fists clenched so tightly that the nurses had to pry them open.

Of course, the courts haven't seen this documentation. Michael conveniently removed the comments from Terri's charts. So, they wouldn't be around for examination now, but the statements from the nurses are.

Let's not forget also that it has been documented that Michael would ask "When is the bitch gonna die?" and such.

A LOT of the evidence has been either considered inadmissable, totally ignored, or destroyed completely. So no, they haven't examined EVERYTHING.

Rhiannon
03-27-2005, 06:45 PM
why did he deny her therapy, anyway ?

That's exactly the what the courts should be questioning, but they haven't. He went AGAINST suggestions of possible treatments for Terri, even though they could've improved her condition.

The bone scans that were done show that Terri had numerous fractures and sprains, and head trauma. Yet, these reports have been completely ignored by the courts as well. No investigation has ever been made as to what caused them, or even her incident in '90. They just claim it was all caused by Bulimia, and written it off as nothing more.

Like I said, he's got a shitload that he's hiding. He's even flat-out refused to take lie detector tests in the past. That should be a bright, neon sign there.

Rhiannon
03-27-2005, 06:49 PM
Just one court.. any one court willing to actually hear the evidence would do nicely.

I second that. I'd be satisfied with just one court that would examine ALL the evidence. It also doesn't matter to me what religion the judge is. I couldn't care less about it, especially since a judge is supposed the be impartial and not influenced by their own beliefs.

SthnrnGrl77
03-27-2005, 06:57 PM
Exactly, PC.. Nurses even documented Terri's state after visits from Michael. She would be extremely aggitated, with a look of fear in her eyes. She also had her fists clenched so tightly that the nurses had to pry them open.

Of course, the courts haven't seen this documentation. Michael conveniently removed the comments from Terri's charts. So, they wouldn't be around for examination now, but the statements from the nurses are.

Let's not forget also that it has been documented that Michael would ask "When is the bitch gonna die?" and such.

A LOT of the evidence has been either considered inadmissable, totally ignored, or destroyed completely. So no, they haven't examined EVERYTHING.

:( chilling. Plus several of his exes have come fwd and said this "nice guy" was extremely abusive and they were in fear of him.
He was extremely possessive, checking her mileadge, etc. I heard she was shy and self conscious. Just the type that abusers like him flock to.

SthnrnGrl77
03-27-2005, 07:06 PM
A new dispute between the parents and Michael Schiavo erupted at the weekend over a request that Terri receive an Easter Communion. Mr Schiavo denied the request by the parents on the grounds that, on orders of the court, she had already been given the last rites.
---------------
yes, a nice loving husband !

polecat
03-27-2005, 07:07 PM
The courts have examined ALL the evidence. There is NO more to be examined.
Unfortunately, this assertion isn't supported by fact.

Just in the last year, evidence that has been disallowed from coming to trial:
*March 2004- Greer disallows Schindler's subpeona for Michael Schiavo to testify in court.
*March 2004- A 1996 court order ruling the share of information between Michael and the Schindlers- Greer disallows information requests from the Schindlers.
*July 2004- A motion is filed by the Schindlers to present evidence that Michaels actions may restrict her free exercise of religious rights. This evidence is denied from being heard.
*November 2004- Schindlers file a motion to include further evidence. It's inclusion is denied.
*January 2005- Schindlers file two motions and also present new evidence from which to hold a trial court guardian proceeding from which to hear the evidence. This is denied.
*February 2005- Florida Department of Children and Families motion to intervene in the case and present evidence. This is denied by Greer
*February 2005- Schindlers file a number of motions. Greer denies hearing most all, but agrees to hear motions concerning: cremation, last rites, allowance of having feeding tube clamped instead of removed, allowance of family to video or take pictures of their daughter for self-momentos only, allow access to family after tube has been removed. Greer later denies these motions after hearing them.

These are like maybe 10% of case examples of what has been denied from being heard. It should also be pretty plain as day what has been decided to be heard vs. what wasn't heard, and the judge's reaction to them.


In spite of what you've read, this case has been heard fairly and completely.
Yep yep yep.. Gotta hate when those pesky things known as facts get in the way of a good ole' wife killing.

Rhiannon
03-27-2005, 07:10 PM
Yeah, they claim she was given Last Rites before her feeding tube was removed, although no one was there to see it.

I think if nothing more, Michael could've allowed her to receive it today with her family. It was going to be nothing but a crumb of bread and a teeny drop of wine, since she cannot swallow now. What would the harm have been in that?

They claim she'll receive Last Rites once more, but who knows if they'll follow through with that either.

Rhiannon
03-27-2005, 07:12 PM
Yep yep yep.. Gotta hate when those pesky things known as facts get in the way of a good ole' wife killing.

LMFAO.. PC, this had me cracking up. Thanks babes, I needed that.

I sincerely wish that anyone who wants to comment that Michael's "in the right" for killing his wife, would do some research before having diarrhea of the fingers.

SthnrnGrl77
03-27-2005, 07:14 PM
More acts by the sweet caring husband of the year:
-------------------------------------

In late 1991, 1½ years after Terri’s collapse, Michael Schiavo became involved in an intimate relationship with Cindy Shook. The romance continued for approximately one year. It can be documented that the two spent a weekend at the Don Caesar hotel in St. Petersburg Beach and they also contacted a Century 21 Realtor on the premise of purchasing a home.

In May of 1992, at the apex of the romance, Schiavo had Terri’s 2 pet cats euthanized to clear the way for his moving in with Cindy and her pet dog.

Rhiannon
03-27-2005, 07:16 PM
^Exactly. And they weren't terminally ill either.

He wanted to remove all traces of Terri from his life, now he's removing her from the world as well. What a guy.

SthnrnGrl77
03-27-2005, 07:18 PM
can any of us imagine our husbands / SO's acting this way ???????
It's abnormal.
I think he has some weird creepy obsession with death and playing god, euth'ing the cats and all.
I wonder if Jebbie or GW would be acting any different if it was anytime near the elections ???????????

Pamela
03-27-2005, 09:00 PM
An answer to Mr Hyde. I can't say i would want to live like her, because it's such a cluster fuck. Simply put..If i could breath on my own, as she does, respond to loved ones, as she does, and have some form of life, like being able to see, as she does...Hell yes i would want to live!!!

Put me in a special made chair and love me! talk to me, hug me and put me through THERAPY. Doctors have been wrong sooooo many fucking times, and time has proved it, with people in comas for many many years, seems % wise much worse state than Terri!!!! She tries to talk when asked to!!!!! :-*

She is not brain dead her doctor said, but a partial part of the brain does not function anymore. But hun does that mean she will remain like this forever? No. Therapy is the key to these patients, and believe i them.

If i had to live on life support 24/7, i would not want to be kept alive. She is a different case so it seems.

No one really knows, and that is sad. Very sad for her.

Pamela

Katrine
03-28-2005, 02:25 AM
I would want to be killed in a humanitarian matter amd quickly.........all I will say on this........what a shame it is political....my grandma didn't make a living will and we had to keep her braindead and hooked up for 8 years. I don't believe in god/afterlife but i hope she is happy, she is a saint...........

Rhiannon
03-28-2005, 06:59 AM
Luckily when my Grandmother died, she did die peacefully at home on Hospice care. She made her wishes well-known in a Living Will she had drawn up shortly after being diagnosed with CHF (Congenital Heart Failure). We were lucky that she had everything written down and no one was in the position where they had to speak for her. We let her pass on her own, we didn't stop feeding her, we didn't deny her of anything at all. She died at 86 years old, and 83 pounds.That's the way it should be with Hospice patients though, they should go on their own. No "help" is needed to hurry the process unless they are in excruciating pain.

I'm still baffled that Terri is even in the Hospice Center. She wasn't dying (well, before the 18th that is), and Hospice is for terminally ill people. That's been a popular question among everyone that I know.

Anyway, Terri is into her 10th day of starvation now. I was extremely pleased to hear that Michael reconsidered her parents' plea to let her receive communion yesterday. She received it in the form of a drop of wine on her tongue. She couldn't receive the bread, because her tongue was too parched. She also received Last Rites. I'm glad that if nothing else, Michael gave her and her parents that.

Another thing that has me completely confused is that Terri is now receiving Morphine for pain. That's really odd considering all the claims that Terri cannot feel pain, that the part of her brain that feels discomfort is gone. Why would she need it? Makes you wonder.

Pamela
03-28-2005, 11:02 AM
Because they ALL feel they are killing a human who deserves to live Rhi. That's why she gets morphine. What will (can) happen as her organs weaken she will over-dose on morphine.....What the fuck is going on???? You can't over-dose a person on drugs in the health care system. OH but a quick creamation will take care of that issue too.

Pamela

DJ_Duane
03-28-2005, 11:21 AM
Another thing that has me completely confused is that Terri is now receiving Morphine for pain. That's really odd considering all the claims that Terri cannot feel pain, that the part of her brain that feels discomfort is gone. Why would she need it? Makes you wonder.

According to an article in the Washington Post: "According to medical experts, when a feeding tube is removed, it is standard procedure to start a patient on morphine. The extent of Schiavo's brain damage means she is not conscious of pain, but the customary procedure would probably be followed anyway, the experts said."

Morphine is a standard procedure, not something special they are doing for Terri.

kitana
03-28-2005, 04:07 PM
I have already said my piece on this whole thing in Poo, but I will say only this.

She should be given the right to live if she wants it, and her little BASTARD of a "husband" should have a big assed bounty on his fuckin' head. I hope I ive to see the FUCKER fried, or frickasied, or hung or whatever!

Kitana

Yea
03-28-2005, 04:44 PM
This is so sad I almost cried. It’s terrifying to think a husband can kill you LEGALLY. That’s fucked up. How can they starve her to death? OK I’ll stop now cuz it’s all been said …So sad.