View Full Version : The Pay-for-Play Paradox
Wwanderer
04-24-2005, 11:02 PM
Fwiiw and irrespective of all the personal criticisms floating around in this thread, I have also very frequently noticed this type of customer in clubs, guys who appear to know all or many of the dancers well and appear to not be spending much or any money but who definitely get lots of company/attention from the dancers. Often their table appears to be a sort of "base of operations" for some of the dancers, where they sit when they are not on stage or moving around the floor trying to sell private dances. And, like EWS, I have often wondered what the story was. Most of the possibilities suggested in this thread have crossed my mind at one time or the other (including even the drug dealer one I suggested in jest at the beginning of the thread), but I never could figure it out in any way I found convincing. Perhaps it is just a wide variety of things, all the possibilities suggested here plus others maybe. Anyway, one of the little mysteries of SC life for me too.
-Ww
Nicolina
04-24-2005, 11:47 PM
Okay, I have to say this is strange, because I danced for 13 years and I can't think of a single customer who spent no money and yet always had a table full of girls. All the dancer magnets I can think of were guys who bought drinks and food for any girl who stopped by, tipped (at the very least) moderately well, and usually slipped the dancers a little cash just for chatting. They didn't have to be high rollers, just consistent, friendly, and familiar. This is different than being 'cheap.'
Have I spent time sitting with bar regulars who weren't big spenders, just to have someone familiar to chat with during down times? Of course. I think the key here is familiarity.
merely_lurking
04-24-2005, 11:48 PM
I used to hang out at this club that was pretty dead during the daytime. I would hang out with this one dancer who was kind of the life of the party, and a she was friends with other dancers who would all sit at our table when they were not with other customers. It would just be me and maybe 5 dancers hanging out together everytime I would go in there. I sometimes wouldn't get any dances for over an hour or so, just buying drinks every now and then. I only got dances from my ATF. It was really fun but only lasted for a couple of months until some of them got fired or quit. I think you just kinda fall into situations like that, you don't really create them. It kinda helps to be laid back and go with the flow though. I just pretended like its my usual state of affairs to have 5 sexy strippers hang out and party with me.
Wwanderer
04-25-2005, 12:46 AM
Btw, as an aside, "pay-for-play" or "play-for-pay" are very common euphemisms for ordinary straightforward prostitution on many net forums devoted to that line of commercial sex work, so the title of this thread will probably confuse some readers. I certainly expected something different.
this is strange, because I danced for 13 years and I can't think of a single customer who spent no money and yet always had a table full of girls. All the dancer magnets I can think of were guys who bought drinks and food for any girl who stopped by, tipped (at the very least) moderately well, and usually slipped the dancers a little cash just for chatting. They didn't have to be high rollers, just consistent, friendly, and familiar.
Well, that is a compelling argument in the sense that 13 years of dancing means spending a hell of a lot more time in strip clubs than most customers, certainly enormously more than I have. So, the obvious conclusion is that perhaps the guys I (and perhaps EWS, assuming that he is talking about the same type of customer) have in mind actually spend money but simply do it in a sufficiently low profile way that I did not see it happen. While I noticed them, I certainly never went to the trouble of watching such a custy carefully and continuously (there always seemed to be better things to look at in a strip club, for some reason)...so it definitely could be the case.
The only other escape from the contradiction might be that you danced in different sorts of clubs or in different areas than where I noticed these inexplicably popular customers. Although I am not sure, I think that I usually or always noticed the type in relatively relaxed, smaller city or town type clubs...with at least a significant degree of custies who looked to be regulars and locals. This is as opposed to big city, high energy/hustle type clubs where the crowd looked to be mostly tourists and traveling businessmen and such.
Anyway, on more than one occasion I have watched some dancer from whom I would have bought multiple dances spend the whole evening nursing a drink or two and casually chatting at the table of these puzzling characters (except for her turns on stage). It seemed to me that she must be losing a lot of money with that behavior, but maybe the guy was slipping her tips/payments on the sly. :shrug:
-Ww
Nicolina
04-25-2005, 01:41 AM
Although I am not sure, I think that I usually or always noticed the type in relatively relaxed, smaller city or town type clubs...with at least a significant degree of custies who looked to be regulars and locals.
That is exactly the type of club in which I normally worked.
Anyway, on more than one occasion I have watched some dancer from whom I would have bought multiple dances spend the whole evening nursing a drink or two and casually chatting at the table of these puzzling characters (except for her turns on stage). It seemed to me that she must be losing a lot of money with that behavior, but maybe the guy was slipping her tips/payments on the sly. :shrug:
Dancers have bad nights. Nights when we just can't bring ourselves to hustle. Nights when we can't leave our troubles at the door, when we're suffering from acute burnout or PMS or heartache. Dancing is physically, emotionally and psychically demanding. On nights when we're just not able to put up a good front, a guy who we know, because we've seen him 3 or 4 nights a week at the club for the last year or two, can offer safe harbor and some comfortable conversation. Despite what many of the guys here seem to think, dancers are not robotic money-making machines. It's not a regular job. I know there were nights when I tried to call in but the boss told me I'd better get my ass to work if I didn't want to end up on the 86 list. So I went to work and did my stage sets, but I sat with the most familiar, least demanding customers and just tried to regroup and regain my strength for the next shift.
Wwanderer
04-25-2005, 02:55 AM
Dancers have bad nights. Nights when we just can't bring ourselves to hustle. Nights when we can't leave our troubles at the door, when we're suffering from acute burnout or PMS or heartache. Dancing is physically, emotionally and psychically demanding. On nights when we're just not able to put up a good front, a guy who we know, because we've seen him 3 or 4 nights a week at the club for the last year or two, can offer safe harbor and some comfortable conversation. Despite what many of the guys here seem to think, dancers are not robotic money-making machines. It's not a regular job. I know there were nights when I tried to call in but the boss told me I'd better get my ass to work if I didn't want to end up on the 86 list. So I went to work and did my stage sets, but I sat with the most familiar, least demanding customers and just tried to regroup and regain my strength for the next shift.
That is a clear and extremely plausible explanation and makes more sense to me than any of the others that have been offerred here. Thanks.
-Ww
fancygirl
04-25-2005, 02:56 AM
I know it's a bad habit, but sometimes I do sit with guys who don't spend money...but with the hopes that they still will. I'm not a big hustler anyways; I get by on my good looks, and my friendly personality. But, sometimes, I'll spend more time with a guy because it's just good conversation and I need to take a "mental break" and laugh or argue and not be worried about saying the wrong thing.
Doing it candidly as a break where I'm not afraid to lose out on potential money like that often doesn't have too big of a financial reward, but sometimes you become the group favorite that way, or get taking to VIP. I just need to hone that skill more so I don't get lazy.
wheelchair customer
04-25-2005, 03:24 AM
I go to my club mostly for fun, plain and simple. In my time, I’ve ridden I one of the biggest roller coasters in the country, flown in a helicopter over Mt. Rushmore and the Grand Canyon, sped across the French countryside at 180 MPH aboard Eurostar, held tight as the ski boat I was in negotiated swift 360 degree turns and made what I consider to be, exquisite love, to a few women who’s affections I enjoyed in long lasting relationships. Except for the latter, no other thrill in life has rocked my world like 6-15 minutes on the couch with my favorite dancer.
These dancers seem to know by and what men like and are comfortable enough with their bodies to allow
For a more unencumbered, erotic, sensual display of their sexuality. For me it’s all about those few moments that my dancer and I seemingly become one. The experience transcends all else in this world for me. Does it happen every time, no but neither do orgasms. If you’ve had one orgasm in your life, consider yourself fortunate.
It is that search or quest that keeps me coming back to my favorite dancer. If I can just let go for a few moments, release all the resistance placed before me concerning this matter, by financial limitations, social mores, religious beliefs, responsibilities of committing to a long term relationship, etc. put all that aside, I might just have another moment with my dancer.
Is she into the experience as much as I am? Certainly not. For me and from my perspective, that’s beside the point. I’m talking about how I feel cuz it’s what I know best. It’s not about her at that moment, it’s all about me--that’s why I’m there. The attempt to reach that blissful place happens more or less at my convenience, when I can afford it. This endeavor is of the utmost importance to me for it provides me with a level of joy and convenience I can find in no other place or situation. The fact that it cost relatively little compared to it’s positive affect on my general out look and well being, astounds me.
Money for sex, the phenomenon is as old as civilization. Will these present arrangements bring me to orgasm, no, but what have come to know and enjoy with this woman, is the closest thing to making love I’ve experienced. True and more meaningful love could brighten my life any day now but will it come from and with this lady, very unlikely. To chances are infinitesimal. So what, It’s a miracle any human finds love, let alone 2 people knowing intimate love between them.
Waiting years for my ship to come in, as my attitude and confidence wanes to despair, or to defraud a woman to get sex from her is out of the question because it don’t need to. I’ve got my ATF. Visiting the club frees me to enjoy life more and to patiently wait in more comfort, for the right woman to enter my life. Hopefully, some day she will.
wheelchair customer
04-25-2005, 03:47 AM
i guess the point i'm trying to make is--enjoy the club and the girls working there. care not about the guy sitting in the back of the room, frequented by many dancers. watch the show--isn't she lovely? tip generously, with courtesy and respect, be a gentleman and the ladies will flock to you. that's my experience
wheelchair customer
04-25-2005, 03:50 AM
EWS, sorry about that Fidel thing, i'm not sure what i was thinking.
Katrine
04-25-2005, 04:54 AM
I just wanted to explain one aspect of our game:
Generally customers who sit alone in the back/corners are there to buy dances. They are sitting in the back because its better privacy and less distraction. These are the men we make most of our money from, rather than the groups of guys sitting by the stage.
Yes, a smart stripper will begin by working the perimeter. Some of these guys need some time to get to know dancer before the pitch. So its still a decent bet to hang out and spend some time with potential big spender. Sometimes we make a poor judgement call though and get stuck with a cheapskate predator...such as yourself sir!
I seldomly spend more than 3 songs just hanging, but sometimes the club is slow and sometimes I just make the wrong call and waste time. But that's the gamble of the game.
As far as those guys sitting around with hundreds and getting ignored. Well, some ppl just don't have much presence and have trouble sending out their radar signal. Also, some nights are just very busy and/or short on girls. Most dancers will just proposition the guys closest to them. So if the girls are working a train of customers in one part of the club, all getting dances, then they might not get to Mr. Turtlehead hiding in the corner hoping to get a glance!
Finally, if I like a customer and/or need a break, I will DEFINATELY hang out afterwards and chat, relax, have a smoke. But if the club is hoppin, that's NOT going to happen! So sure, after I get my money I'm totally off to the next. Also, I do have customers who pay for my time, as mentioned above.
There is nothing wrong with coming on here and sharing your theory, but we WILL poke holes in your logic if we see fault with it. Be cool with it, don't be an asshat, k? ;)
Lurker
04-25-2005, 07:06 AM
I think there are two different types of situations being conflated in the discussion.
1. Guy sitting alone on the outskirts of the club. You see this all the time, and the reasons for him being there are many and varied (may not want to tip, may be getting better visibility to pick out dancer, may be planning to stay a while and see how many dancers try to sell dances to him while he sits stony-faced and satisfied to be "winning" the game he thinks he is playing).
2. Guy sitting at the hub of a lot of dancer activity, with dancers coming and going from his table and clearly all recognizing him.
2. is a bit of a mystery to me as well--I assume he's one of the following:
Dancer BF/friend
Dealer
Owner/Manager-type
Big Spender (who just isn't spending at the moment or is spending at times I'm not watching)
But I think it's tough to generalize--there are all sorts of reasons some guy could be getting lots of attention without money visibly changing hands. I've definitely asked about the phenomenon a few times, but either it was so long ago or the answers were so mundane that I honestly don't remember the explanations.
All Good Things
04-25-2005, 07:50 AM
On nights when we're just not able to put up a good front, a guy who we know, because we've seen him 3 or 4 nights a week at the club for the last year or two, can offer safe harbor and some comfortable conversation.
Amazing choice of words.
"Safe harbor" is exactly how the dancers described my table in a discussion about this we had at dinner two weeks ago.
The difference from the scenario WW describes is that you'd have to be legally blind not to see the cash there, too. But none of the college guys ever do; it's a perpetual mystery to them why all these beautiful women are parked at my table and keep returning there while ignoring them.
At least twice a month, a newbie will ask, "so, are you the owner?" "No," I reply, "I'm the Other Owner." ::)
yoda57us
04-25-2005, 07:53 AM
I know a guy who hangs at one of my regular clubs. He buys LD's sporadically but when he does he buys 10 at a time. He is also known for never spending on the same girl twice in a row. The gilrs at the club know this and they will rotate by his spot at the bar whenever he is in the club. He is friendly, knows most of the ladies and is generous when it comes to buying them drinks. The ladies are willing to invest their time because of the size of the pay-off; knowing full well there may not be one(at least not for them) on that particular day.
All Good Things
04-25-2005, 08:01 AM
That is a clear and extremely plausible explanation and makes more sense to me than any of the others that have been offerred here. Thanks.
-Ww
One final thought to supplement Nic's wonderful summary.
Financial support takes many forms. It's not always cash inside the club. It's fairly common for good regulars to help out on the outside when asked or needed.
Don't underestimate the importance of being there for a dancer when she is genuinely in trouble (insert SS joke here).
Along the lines of what Yoda said, the guy could just be a nice man who serves as "home base" for some of the dancers. I sometimes assume that role myself. I don't usually do dances but I try and tip all the ladies that stop by and am generous with beverages if they choose to imbibe. They are more than welcome to drop off their drink glasses and smokes while they are out looking for business.
FBR