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Susan Wayward
05-21-2005, 10:57 AM
If you're willing to reciprocate by giving every dancer you talk to your full real name and place of business, I'll consider the merits of what you're saying. However, I think a performer has every right to use a stage name for whatever reason she chooses. Same goes for writers, news anchors, and former gay escorts posing as White House reporters.

By the way, I have always used my real name at work, and your attitude is still highly offensive. What makes you think you're entitled to ask personal and possibly endangering questions of people you've just met? Would you act similarly towards your hypothetical other professionals (So, Doctor, what's your address?) And for that matter, how do you know your masseuse's "real name" is Maia? The name anyone chooses to give you is the name he or she wishes to be known by, and you should respect that. It is certainly your choice to spend your money on a dancer who you believe has given you her "real" name, but obviously the majority of customers don't feel that need. Or that needy.

Madcap
05-21-2005, 11:51 AM
But one thing puzzles me. If Heaven and some of you other ladies aren't interested in hearing about , why do you bother reading the "customer conversation" section in the first place?

Since when was CC the place to tell Strippers "what a long-time regular customer thinks is wrong with your business practices?"

WiseGuy_TX
05-21-2005, 12:17 PM
In every commercial establishment that I have occasion to visit - a restaurant, a department store, the doctor's office, the auto repair shop, the barber shop, the massige studio, etc. - the person who takes care of me will either introduce themself or wear a name tag or both. That's considered to be good customer service, in addition to being the polite thing to do, and it show respect for the customer.

Sorry FONDL i'm seeing a real disconnect here too. Do these other professionals have many customers that try to finger them, try to grab or suck their tits, say insulting/rude things like "how much to f*ck your ass" or "rub my d*ck", becoming obsessive to the point of stalking ....and would these professionals still respect those customers and tell them their name?

Why in the world would a dancer expose her privacy "before" a customer has demonstated or proven his respect when dancers endure hardships from customers that your other professionals do not?

doc-catfish
05-21-2005, 04:19 PM
In every commercial establishment that I have occasion to visit - a restaurant, a department store, the doctor's office, the auto repair shop, the barber shop, the massige studio, etc. - the person who takes care of me will either introduce themself or wear a name tag or both. That's considered to be good customer service, in addition to being the polite thing to do, and it show respect for the customer. The strip club is the only exception.
When I see society put stripping on the same level of respect as those mainstream enterprises you mention, I may perhaps put some stock into this line of reasoning.

In the meantime, I don't see auto mechanics and barbers having to live with the scorn of being in their said profession from ignorant outsiders and sometimes from their own friends and family.

Just my .02, but stripper stage names are like any other uniquity that you'll find only in a SC. Like mirrored walls, brass poles, cheesy music, $9 beers, and women prancing around in the most unsenisble shoes imaginable, where else are you going to see women going by monikers like "Bubbles", "Felony", and "Mirage"?

Keep the fake shit coming, I say. Sometimes the artificialities are what keep the experience fun, (and safe for the dancers). The drama only seems to start up when people start blurring that with reality.

Emiliana
05-21-2005, 05:49 PM
Fondl and Frog Prince- Your sense of entitlement is absolutely astonishing and frankly a little out of touch with reality...when I sit down and say my name is Silver Cherry or anything else, then that is my name. Why, WHY on earth do you feel the need to push? What does it matter what the hell my real name is...you will not ever be privy to my private information nor will it affect our TEMPORARY relationship in the SC. My name has nothing to do with how well I dance or conversate. Trust me as a dancer I don't owe you shit..I don't owe you trust, honesty and definetly not respect...all I owe you is an awesome dance for the money you have given me. If my very common "attitude" makes me less deserving of you then your right...no one deserves such a cuntrag for a customer.

Bob_Loblaw
05-21-2005, 08:03 PM
The way I see it, they are part of the entertainment industry who are playing a role while they're in the club. I myself do not feel disrespected when I watch a movie with an actor who plays a part with a name other than his own. I was fine with, "Run, Forrest, run!" I did not need to hear, "Run, Tom, run!" in order to be satisfied.

bigteninch
05-21-2005, 08:17 PM
oh yeah.... bigteninch, not my real name! ;D

Frog_Prince
05-21-2005, 08:52 PM
Whoa! I go away for awhile, and the board goes bonkers.

For the record -- I don't agree with Fondl's comment about volunteering your name as soon as you sit down with a customer. That's absurd. And dangerous. I don't advocate giving any personal information, including your name (and if you're using your real name, he won't know that unless you tell him), email address, or phone number to any customer unless 1) you're comfortable doing it; and 2) you have the abililty that most dancers I've met have to distinguish the creeps and would-be stalkers from the others. And since 2) isn't foolproof, you basically have to go with 1). All I'm saying is that there isn't anything wrong with asking; that it's usually a sign that the customer likes you, is interested in you as a person not just an assemblage of body parts, and/or that he is simply more comfortable knowing something about the woman with whom he's about to have intimate or pseudo-intimate contact. If that's a boundary you won't let a customer cross, like other boundaries you may have, just say no. And if you're not interested in or don't expect repeat business, why bother. I've never stopped seeing someone who says she doesn't want to give me her name. But I've never had dances from a woman more than twice who still doesn't feel comfortable enough to tell me her name.

And for those who say that they won't give their real names unless the customer does, like that's never going to happen -- it does. All the time.

Frog_Prince
05-21-2005, 09:14 PM
Forgot one other thing. No, I wouldn't need to know what an actor's real name is to appreciate his or her acting ability. But that's apples and oranges. If the actress were close enough to me so I could smell her perfume, listen to her breathe, and feel her touch, wanting to know her real name is not such an outrageous concept.

Bob_Loblaw
05-21-2005, 11:36 PM
No, to want to know her name isn't unfathomable. But to expect or demand to know her name is.

On a side note, how many customers here have fake customer names?

FONDL
05-22-2005, 12:02 PM
Interesting comments. First of all, I'm not suggesting that anyone give out a ton of personal information, my waitress certainly doesn't do that. I'm not even suggesting that a dancer give out her full name, only her first name. What is the possible harm in that? When a dancer joins me at my request, the first thing I do is introduce myself, first name only. And many girls will do the same, saying something like, "My dancer name is Sunshine but my real name is Kathy." Can anyone give me an example where a girl has been hurt by doing this? Because I can give you several examples where she's made a lot more money as a result. I have never asked a dancer for her real name, but the ones I spend money on generally volunteer it. (BTW Frog, my current favorite has seen I my drivers license. I haven't seen hers but she has told me her real name and has called me from her unblocked and listed home phone number. I've found that a surprising number of dancers will do stuff like that. They're the ones who become regulars for me because we have established mutual trust.)

This board is full of dancer laments that customers and society won't treat dancing like a real job or strip clubs like real businesses. Why should they when dancers themselves refuse to do so?

Can anyone please give a valid reason why a dancer shouldn't give out her real first name? Can anyone give an example of where a dancer has been hurt by doing so? I've never heard either.

scarlett_vancouver
05-22-2005, 12:19 PM
The 'what's your real name' question is so annoying, I just get off topic as quickly as possible. I usually tell them my real name and then get on with it. It's not like they're going to hunt me down with just my first name!
I keep where I live and my last name secret- thank goodness I haven't had anyone ask those yet, I'd be aghast!

[Edited to add, after I read the thread]:

No dancer should be told she should give out her real name! I will give my real name to people who ask, because I don't care- my name's crazy common, and the community is so inbred here that any longtime customer will know any dancer's real name, just by osmosis.
But if someone creeps me out I have a fake name that sounds like my real name, so I'll give that one. If they catch me out, I just say they heard wrong ;)

Bridgette
05-22-2005, 12:57 PM
I've had morons ask me my last name. Alot. I don't tell.

Fondl, it's not so much a safety issue with the first name, it's generally more of a privacy issue as well as role-playing, etc. At work we're playing a role, plain and simple. Did you completely ignore the others' comments on why expecting a stripper's real name upon first introduction is absurd???

I've experienced incidents where the use of a stage name came in EXTREMELY handy. For example: Living in Texas, my grandparents came to visit me there, and as we walked into Wal-Mart together (very obviously together), this dipshit I'd been dancing for the night before yelled out my stage name and started to yap about how great last night was ::) Now any fool could've seen I was with my grandparents and it was completely inappropriate for him to do that. Thanks to the use of that stage name, I simply pretended not to know him and that he must have had me mistaken with someone else. Most of our families and friends don't approve of what we do, and a large majority of us keep it secret for that reason. A stage name is a good way to help cover ourselves. WHY ON EARTH would we automatically assume some guy we JUST met could be trusted not to act stupidly in public later on, and just automatically give out our real names?

Surely you don't think that the overwhelming disagreement with your logic here is entirely without merit, or in onther words, you're right and everyone else is wrong???

FBR
05-22-2005, 01:21 PM
Perhaps some guys think they are establishing a higher degree of intimacy...who knows :shrug:

Even though I know the real names of all my favs I still address them based on their dancer names. And thats fine with me.

FBR

Crow
05-22-2005, 01:30 PM
Wow. I'm sure .. er, Fondl there with his real name is one of those dorks that will ask me.. How tall I am. If my boobs are real, etc etc.

It takes all kinds and some of those kinds are obviously a bit dimmer than others.
My two cents worth.

Miss R.

WiseGuy_TX
05-22-2005, 01:35 PM
Did you completely ignore the others' comments on why expecting a stripper's real name upon first introduction is absurd???
Exactly. I surmise there are no valid reasons he will agree with.

I was with my grandparents and it was completely inappropriate for him to do that.
...had she given it out she would have been hurt. A valid reason in only 55 minutes after FONDL asks the question.

Phil-W
05-22-2005, 02:32 PM
Can anyone please give a valid reason why a dancer shouldn't give out her real first name? Can anyone give an example of where a dancer has been hurt by doing so? I've never heard either.

Cos many dancers adopt a persona when working, and the stage name is part of the persona. I've always thought that the persona is one of the ways that dancer's keep a psychological seperation between "work" and "real life". It's far easier for the dancer if the persona undresses in front of strangers, grinds on their laps, etc.

Ask a dancer for her real name and you've diminished the pyschological separation. I'll post a couple of anecdotes to illustrate this.

(1) I sometimes give dancers lifts home. When I was leaving the (UK) pub with one, she said it was a part of the job where she felt uncomfortable. I asked her why outside. She said it was because the customers in the pub got to see her leaving without make-up, hair in a pony tail, and in normal clothes. She didn't mind them seeing her in "stripper" mode - but didn't want them to see her in "real life" mode.

(2) A dancer I have become increasingly friendly with in recent weeks has a very distinct "stripper" personality. She's loud voiced, swears a lot, happily flips a nipple out of her bra if a customer jokes about it, etc. Outside the venue she's softly spoken, doesn't swear, and is surprisingly shy - no revealing clothes for example. The "stripper" personality is what helps her get through work and she doesn't want to step outside of it.

If you ask a dancer for her real name, you are beginning to move onto ground they may be uncomfortable on. Okay, it may seem a simple request, but many a dancer will be very uncomfortable complying.

Phil.

Madcap
05-22-2005, 05:19 PM
Wow. Someone's thick-headed.

I wonder who?

Frog_Prince
05-22-2005, 08:15 PM
This is really much ado about nothing much. And I think a lot of posters aren't reading the entire string.

The original topic was "customers stop asking me!!!". Whether it's a good thing or not a good thing for a customer to ask, the point I was trying to make is that it's a normal thing to ask if you see the dancer as a person and not an object. That doesn't mean that a dancer has to give everyone who asks her name (first or both first and last, although a first name should be a lot less problematic) if she just doesn't want to, or if she's concerned about the customer's trustworthiness. Why would any dancer give any personal information, including a real first name, to a customer who she considers a "dipshit", or who was drunk when she danced with him? The dancers I've met have universally been intelligent, articulate, and insightful. They can profile a customer almost immediately, and act accordingly. If you don't consider yourself capable of doing that, or recognize that profiling customers isn't foolproof, or just don't want to, don't do it.

The only legitimate argument I can think of for wanting customers not to ask is that it would put the dancer who doesn't feel comfortable giving out her name in an uncomfortable position. I can sympathize with that, and would agree that that's a real concern because some of you might feel obligated to do something you don't want to do. But you all have had to tell a customer that you have boundaries you won't let him cross, and you all manage to do it in a way that is sympathetic and non-confrontational, but which gets the point across. Some customers are just into getting as much action and extras from a dancer as they can, some customers are into getting to know the woman they're dancing with (and some are hybrids). Dancerrs are the ones in control. You're experienced in dealing with the first type; you can deal with the second type too if giving your name is a boundary you don't want crossed. But don't say it's wrong for a customer to ask.

Jenny
05-22-2005, 11:14 PM
I actually think that a girl should be flattered that a customer wants to know her real name and something about her. Yeah, but see, it's not flattering. And no customer wants to know anything about us unless he is lonely and creepy. We tell them things about us that entertain them - that is what customers want. To be entertained. Yes, they frequently become interested in us when we are entertaining, but that is not the same thing at all. Anyone who walks into a strip club going "I'm going to go in and really GET TO KNOW someone" is a customer we can probably live without.


It means that he thinks of her as a person rather than a piece of meat
No it doesn't. There is no connection here at all. It just means he wants to call his meat something different. Objectifying women is not defined by what name you call them, for crying out loud. My boss misspells my name all the time; that does not amount to objectification.




BTW, the stalker argument is bogus. Any guy who wants to know your real name badly enough will find a way to do so. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Hiding your real name won't protect you from the stalker. In fact I think you could argue just the opposite, that it increases the challenge for him and makes it more fun.

This is just more silliness. Stalkers don't stalk women to have "fun". They do it because they feel that they have an implicit right to that woman, and any means they take to possess her are covered by that right. As such they take small interactions between them (such as a false feeling of "specialness" that a dancer may share her real name) and build them into intimacies that give them the idea they are RIGHT to chase them down. I agree with you that refusing to give out your name won't protect you from a determined stalker, but nor has giving a fake name ever hurt a customer. Seriously - what kind of moron would get upset over this? Like if we found out that Katrine's name was really Madelaine - would we really all be like "She has deceived us! Never have we, collectively, been treated with such disrespect!"? No. Not unless we were stupid, or unbalanced. By the way, I just made that up. If Katrine has another name, I don't know it. It was just an example.




BTW, I agree with the original post, a customer shouldn't ask a dancer her real name. He shouldn't have to because she should volunteer it as soon as she sits down and introduces herself. That's just common courtesy, anything else is rude.

See that's funny. I think it is rude when one refuses to accept the information given about a person. If I tell someone, whether on the street or in a bar that I wish to be called "Foxy Bubbles" I damn well expect them to comply. Frankly, arguing with me about what I OUGHT to be called is rude, not me telling you.


And to give a fake name is insulting and is treating the customer with disrespect.
How? What about this is disrespectful?


When a dancer shows disrespect toward me I treat her exactly the same.
You know the kind of people that usually say that kind of thing? The kind of people who are looking for reasons to be disrespectful. See my FIRST rule, just in general, is to at least TRY to be polite and nice to everyone. I'm not saying I always succeed, but I certainly never run around looking for excuses to lose it on someone. And when I do, I buck up, admit to it and move on. Because you can't control anyone's behaviour except your own. When you go around making your courtesy conditional on someone else's behaviour (especially something as simple and obvious as a known pseudynom) you are just losing your own dignity.


The only girls who I ever spend money on are the ones who are open, honest and respectful toward me.
It's not always easy to respect customers. Sometimes you just have to accept the courtesy we extend by ACTING respectful.


There is no valid reason - none - not to tell a customer your name.
Here is a valid reason - possibly the most valid of all: I don't want to tell him. I think that is incredibly fucking valid. What can it possibly matter to you (for example) what my mother calls me? Look at this way. If anyone came on this board looking for you by your real name, would that mean anything to any of us? Or would we be like, "Who? Do you have his handle?" The ONLY name that means anything to my customers is my stage name. They have no reason to care what my friends call me. I am happy giving them my stage name. I answer to it promptly. If they came into a club looking for me, that is the name that would be helpful. Really, there is no valid reason - none - that a customer should want to know my real name.


I want to thank Heaven777 for her post, because the attitude she expresses illustrates far better than I ever could why long-time customers like me are losing interest in strip clubs and why the remaining customers so often treat dancers with disdain. Well, I think you can tell by the responses that we might not be SO very sad to see the backs of those particular customers. The customers that get ridiculously wrapped up in our personal lives aren't the ones that we'll miss.

All that being said, there is no point in fighting with guys over it. Just make something up.

tragic-beauty
05-23-2005, 12:26 AM
I think having an opinion is one thing.. but trying to Make other people share your same opinion is somthing else.. if you dont like it dont go, and save your bitterness for people that deserve it..

No i dont tell them my real name and why i dont is my business. and if someone wants to act like thats how it needs to be then they can just move on because i dont care... i already work in a very up and down stressful enviroment.. if i dont feel comfortable with somthing its best to just deal with it because its My call.

Casual Observer
05-23-2005, 12:39 AM
Even though I know the real names of all my favs I still address them based on their dancer names. And thats fine with me.

This is usually how I do it, though I do slip with one of my regular girls pretty frequently. Can't help it.

SportsWriter2
05-23-2005, 06:41 AM
Common courtesy would be for you to realize that I don't want every creep to know my personal details! Asshole. I don't appreciate you making me feel like if I don't tell you my real name...I don't DESERVE you as a customer. Go to hell.

That's an understandable and revealing response.

Just as there are Extras Girls, there are Real Girls. They tell you their real first names up front and eventually more than anyone else knows about them. Customers like FONDL prefer a girl next door with a "near persona" to an otherwise equally attractive dancer with a "distant persona."

I never ask for a real first name, because I don't want the moral responsibility that comes with knowing. But if I really like the dancer, I'll play that game with her. It can be socially and psychologically constructive for both parties.

The irony here is that anonymity in a club allows people to discuss things that they would never discuss elsewhere. When you end up knowing each other in the real world, it creates a unique bond.

FONDL
05-23-2005, 10:30 AM
The main points that I've been trying to make here are that often things are done a certain way because that's how they've always been done. But often times the reason for doing them that way no longer exists, if it ever did in the first place. I tend to question such things and I think this business of dancer names is one of them. Maybe I'm wrong but I've met a lot of dancers who agree with me.

When you consider that business in general and the SC business in particular has become a lot more competitive, any edge you can get is worth considering. I know dancers who make a lot of money by being open, honest and polite because some customers prefer to be treated that way. I'm one of them.

BTW, Some of you might be interested to know that I never ask a dancer her real name, whether her boobs are real, or any other such rude questions, and I find it interesting that some of you are quick to assume that I'm the type of customer that I personally abhor. In fact I've been told over and over again by dancers that they wish all their customers were as polite as I am. I agree with them, I wish more customers were more polite. I wish more dancers were too.

Heaven777
05-23-2005, 11:48 AM
OMG.

FONDL-We answered your questions and validated EVERYTHING you brought up and still seem not to understand.

Can this thread be closed please? I'm really sick of going back and forth with this guy...

Jenny
05-23-2005, 12:13 PM
BTW, Some of you might be interested to know that I never ask a dancer her real name, whether her boobs are real, or any other such rude questions, and I find it interesting that some of you are quick to assume that I'm the type of customer that I personally abhor. Well, to be perfectly fair to those who are assuming that, you did say that when a dancer introduced herself by her stage name you felt entitled to treat her with disrespect.

Many, many dancers don't care if customers know their name. That's fine for them. Maybe the reason for this policy is nothing more than it makes us happy and more comfortable. And keep in mind, that though you may see no good reasons for keeping the practice, there are certainly no compelling reasons to change it either. I will stress again that there is NO REASON a customer needs to know your real name unless they are doing something wrong with it.

Just as there are Extras Girls, there are Real Girls I love that you use title case for that. Because "Real Girls" (of which I would be one, I might add) is an act, a gimmick, just like everything else. I'm not saying nobody is ever telling the truth, some are, even I do sometimes (although I sometimes don't). I'm saying that it is the experience, not the veracity that is important.

Madcap
05-23-2005, 12:31 PM
The main points that I've been trying to make... Blah... Blah... Blah... Blah... Blah... Blah... Blah... Blah... Blah... Blah... Blah... Blah... Yadda... Yadda...

FONDL,

Christ dude let it go! Do you think you weren't understood the fist seventy-two times you said it? You were understood and disagreed with. Jesus, no amount of reiteration is going to convince anyone to come over to your side. Sure, you know girls who give you what may or may not be their "real" names, big fugging deal! If that's the case then those girls were always on your side to begin with. You aren't convincing anyone, in case you hadn't noticed. Why reword the same shit over and over?

My GOD! Somebody give the record player a kick, will ya!

FONDL
05-23-2005, 03:06 PM
Madcap, I'm only repeating myself because others keep misinterpreting what I've been trying to say. For example, in spite of the many criticisms that I'm telling others what to do, that's not what I meant to say. The original post complained that a girl is tired of being asked her real name. I tried to point out that one way to avoid the problem is to volunteer the informaton, which in my experience is what many girls do. And I personally find that to be a polite thing to do, just like would happen if we were somewhere else. If some of you don't agree, don't do it. I'll be spending my money on the girls who agree.

And if I may slip a little off topic for a minute I'd like to respond to Bridgette's comments about being out with her grandparents and running into a rude customer. I frankly think this raises a much more interesting topic than the one we've been discussing. If you're not at all spiritual, please stop reading now because you will find the rest of this post to be total nonsense (much like many of you seem to have found my previous ones to be.) Let me just say that I don't believe in coincidences, I believe that everything happens for a reason. And in my opinion what happened to Bridgette was a sign for her, which could have meant many different things but just might have been a message that she should get out of dancing and go do something else. Bridgette, I'm guessing that you've had other similar signs and that you will continue to have them (like maybe this post for example) until you take whatever actions that the signs are meant to convey. That's what usually happens when we get signs that we ignore or don't recognize as such, they keep coming our way and usually keep getting stronger til we can no longer ignore them. Anyway, Bridgette, thanks for sharing, I thought your post was the most interesting one on this thread. Which maybe isn't saying a whole lot.

doc-catfish
05-23-2005, 04:31 PM
And in my opinion what happened to Bridgette was a sign for her, which could have meant many different things but just might have been a message that she should get out of dancing and go do something else. Bridgette, I'm guessing that you've had other similar signs and that you will continue to have them (like maybe this post for example) until you take whatever actions that the signs are meant to convey. That's what usually happens when we get signs that we ignore or don't recognize as such, they keep coming our way and usually keep getting stronger til we can no longer ignore them.
Well, I consider myself spiritual, but this thread is now entering the Twilight Zone.
:loco:

http://tzone.the-croc.com/sounds/tzone2.wav
doo-doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo-doo

Madcap
05-23-2005, 04:49 PM
Oh, boy. Pass the popcorn, Doc. I can't wait till B responds to that...

Bridgette
05-23-2005, 05:04 PM
LOL! Nah, I just took that incident as a sign that guy was a stupid jerk. No more no less. After talking to other girls who've survived this business to retire, I learned that the only sign I need to know it's time to quit is when I wake up one day and just don't want to do it anymore. No more no less.

Chili Palmer
05-23-2005, 05:14 PM
Just make sure you don't wake up that way until at least the end of next March. ;)


CP

Bridgette
05-23-2005, 05:31 PM
Heee, I have a feeling it'll be longer than that :D

mspussykatus
06-10-2005, 12:40 AM
I personally don't mind giving my first name when a customer asks. It makes them feel like you have a more "special" bond. After they ask and I give it to them, I always follow up with, "But if you call me that here no one will know who you are talking about, because we all call each other by our dancer names." And that normally gets a laugh out of them and puts them at ease. But if you don't want to give out your real first name, then just make up one. But make sure you keep the same "fake real name," just in case you run into the same customer later on and don't remember him.

Gendai73
06-10-2005, 09:58 AM
makes me feel like i'm trusted. i don't know their full names but first names.

i won't those names unless no one is in earshot. which isn't very often.

Madcap
06-10-2005, 10:58 AM
Honestly, i generally couldn't care less what he real name is. "Star" is fine with me.

The closest i came to asking this was asking a dancer what other stage names she had, remind me never to do that again BTW (This chick must have rattled off about 40, i remember being floored).