View Full Version : The Dukes of Hazzard.
Amethyst
06-25-2005, 09:23 AM
IMO a major source of racism is that losers often try to assert that their race is superior to other races, because they simply have no other even maginally appealing trait they can identify. Ignorant, ugly, weak, slow, lazy, and bitter. Being of the ____ race is all they have left.
Preach brother ;D No seriously, I live for this kind of research (I'm a cultural/social psych major) and you are dead on. Economics plays a huge factor as well. That's why the majority of morons you see acting like asses and dropping the N-bomb, the K-bomb, and the S-bomb all the time look fit Madcap's description to a 'T'.
LOL, I KNOW! Watcjing stuff about the Klan on the history channel is quite the experience... some of these drooling mouthbreathers screaming about white power, regular master race they are! Too bad the master race hasn't heard of a toothbrush.
One thing i saw in one of those programs was very telling, though. It was a little kid, maybe three or four, dressed up in full Klan haloween costume regailia. That was pretty sad. But, really, that's where that hardcore racism usually comes from, it's passed down from parents to kiddies. I mean, just ask some of these people what their actual problems are with other races. The answers you get are mind boggling. People will bend over backwards to fit the world into their own private pidgeonhole, truth ot untruth means nothing in cases like that.
At least with those buffoons we know who be the enemy, LOL. It's the racists in business suits I worry about or the ones who promote sterotypical and racist beliefs under the guise of conservatism and liberalism - who wants to fight an enemy you can't identify?
Back to the Dukes, I don't know much about Boss Hog, except that when I was getting in trouble for terrorizing the boys in my neighborhood, my dad would always call me "Boss Hog", but here's an interesting tidbit:
http://imdb.com/gallery/mptv/1243/Mptv/1243/4599_0013.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Booke,%20Sorrell
Boss Hogg had a twin brother (Sorrell Booke in a dual role), who appeared in only one episode. He was the literal opposite of Jefferson Davis Hogg - he was law-abiding, wore black, and was called Abraham Lincoln Hogg.
http://i.imdb.com/mptv1.gif
Pamela
06-25-2005, 10:45 AM
All i remember is i grew up in the muscle car era! And a 69 charger does it for me! The show was cute! Ok, do we have to have a Chihuahau (sp) in the movie instead of a Basset Hound? Everyone today loves a Chi. I never noticed the flag myself......How pathetic can all this shit get. No, i doubt very much there will be a newer version of the car used or shown. I understand the car in the video is the car being used.....And Jess is wearing a brown wig.....Lol. :)
Pamela
Madcap
06-25-2005, 10:59 AM
No, i doubt very much there will be a newer version of the car used or shown. I understand the car in the video is the car being used
Yup, but if Chrysler was going to put their stamp on this flick any bets the car would be a far more recent model? So maybe it's just as well Chrysler backed off...
Bridgette
06-25-2005, 12:47 PM
Is anyone really supporting use of the confederate flag here? I thought we were just saying it's rather insignificant in the context of the DOH movie and GL car. Because I don't place any serious significance on the flag in general, I don't care who uses it for what - generally speaking. As far as KKK and other white supremecist dipshits using it to represent themselves, well, they're a bunch of losers who hijacked it for their own idiotic purposes and in doing so, perverted its original meaning, which was solely to represent the ill-fated conferederate nation. All nations have their own flag, and the confederates figured they needed one too, if they were going to be their own country. In fact, I think most people have inaccurately placed too much meaning on that flag - it was a national flag, like any other national flag. Whether or not it represents hate is a more subjective matter IMO.
And mojo, can we please not bring racial slurs into it? IMO comparing the use of racial slurs to the use of a flag in this context is like comparing apples to oranges.
SonicBones
06-25-2005, 02:19 PM
BTW, that should read "vertically-challenged". Although at a whopping 95 lbs, I guess I could be called "horizontally-challenged".
Lawd, I need to go back to sleep.
Lol, yeah the PC stuff has gotten out of hand. You gotta read George Carlin's book about the whole thing,very funny and true! {damn that's two books I'm reading and managed to mention on this thread }. As for Chrysler or any of the other corporations?They most likely are concerned that the NAACP and Al Sharpton will/would be shaking them down and can't risk the libel suits etc.Nor do they want to portray themselves as Pro racism {being some embrace the confederate flag as a symbol as such} as this thread has proved. So bottom line? they only give a
[email protected]$% about the all mighty $.If repercussions weren't inevitable they would have the "Limited Edition General Lee" mass marketed in a Hazzard county minute;) .Sidenote: In highschool I had a red 1972 souped up Satellite.Pretty close to a Charger.Very valuable now too.Wish I had it now... "The past empowers the present,and the groping footsteps leading to this present mark the pathways to the future"-Mary Catherine Bateson {Thought this quote to have relevance to the whole racism topic}
MojoJojo
06-27-2005, 04:25 PM
Whoops! Will correct now to give the cheer squad to Mojo! I guess I scrolled back and forth a little too quickly.
I'm willing to share my racially diverse cheering squad ;)
SonicBones
07-20-2005, 12:21 PM
Update! {sort of} Going off the racism angle,here's what "Cooter" thinks about the flick. http://www.cootersplace.com/. (http://www.cootersplace.com/.) Jimmy Kimmel was doing a bit the other night about this,so I was curious if this was a real site.Scroll to bottom of the page for the flick info.
CuriousJ
07-20-2005, 12:55 PM
The South shall Rev again! Heh heh!
Oh well. Can you find a pic of a 2006 Charger? I'd like to see it.
Loved the show. It encouraged my white/brown trash values and my fast driving habits.
I dont have a pic but have seen its a typical reproduction - not close to its original style - none of the repros are . Its kind of boxy looking not much flair !
CuriousJ
07-20-2005, 01:03 PM
The only person I will offend probably is my own wife by watching Jessica Simpson prance around in those Daisy Duke shorts - Flag what flag - what about that ass !!
lenny_nero
07-20-2005, 01:27 PM
No, it was not an issue in the 70's from what I recall. Of course, I was a kid and could've been oblivious. No one complained about having a "chink in the armor" or the "Redskins" either.
Those aren't analagous; having a "chink in the armor" is not a racial term at all, any more than saying the kitchen is "spic and span" or calling Scrooge "niggardly". Anyone who complains about those is just ignorant.
Now I can easily see getting upset about the Redskins or the Confederate flag...
lenny_nero
07-20-2005, 01:29 PM
I dont have a pic but have seen its a typical reproduction - not close to its original style - none of the repros are . Its kind of boxy looking not much flair !
http://www.allpar.com/cars/lx/dodge-charger.html has pics/info on the 2006 Charger.
lenny_nero
07-20-2005, 01:36 PM
Is anyone really supporting use of the confederate flag here? I thought we were just saying it's rather insignificant in the context of the DOH movie and GL car.
That I agree with. However loosely, it's a period piece and altering history for the sake of political correctness is a bad idea.
All nations have their own flag, and the confederates figured they needed one too, if they were going to be their own country. In fact, I think most people have inaccurately placed too much meaning on that flag - it was a national flag, like any other national flag. Whether or not it represents hate is a more subjective matter IMO.
Sure. And the Nazi swastika was their national flag.
What the nation stands for is pretty important to evaluating how you feel about their symbols, and about 3 times as many people died during transportation to the New World alone for slavery than were killed by the Nazis in WWII. If you're trying to show your solidarity with a nation that rebelled to protect that right, and that it's part of your heritage, fine--but expect some people not to be okay with it.
You'd expect some people to be upset if you walked around with the hammer and sickle.You could say that really communism isn't about Stalin killing millions of people and that's just some group corrupting it, and besides, you were born in Russia in the 1950s and it's part of your heritage. All possibly true, but that doesn't change the fact that the symbol doesn't stand for any pure ideal in the eyes of most people.
CuriousJ
07-20-2005, 01:39 PM
http://www.allpar.com/cars/lx/dodge-charger.html has pics/info on the 2006 Charger.
So damn boxy why would they base it on such a crappy platform ? I know to keep costs down but lets get real . Now I think Mustang did a fairly decent remake on theirs . Thanks for the pic info
doc-catfish
07-20-2005, 02:10 PM
Apparently the movie is involved in a new sort of controversy. The original Cooter wants you to boycott it.
Former 'Dukes' star urges boycott of movie remake
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0714People314-ON.html
The Associated Press
Jul. 14, 2005 02:10 PM ATLANTA- A former star of the "The Dukes of Hazzard" TV show is urging fans to skip the forthcoming movie version, calling it "a sleazy insult."
Ben Jones, a former Georgia congressman who played the wisecracking mechanic Cooter on the popular series from 1979 to 1985, said profanity and sexual content in the film make a mockery of the family friendly show.
Yeah, I'm sure it was really family friendly for Catherine Bach to be strutting around in outfits like these.
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/yvonnesm/HazzardCounty/general.html
Hell, my older brother had a CB poster on his wall. Hard to believe that she's 51 now. :eek:
Catherine Bach then vs. Jessica Simpson now.
http://img106.exs.cx/img106/9861/Catherine_Bach.jpg http://chud.com/nextraimages/daisyduke11304.jpg
Except for Jessica being blonde, I don't see much of a difference. They call short denim cutoffs Daisy Dukes for a reason.
amrthenewme
07-20-2005, 09:36 PM
A little off point but kind of curious. I don't want a religious arguement on the subject, just an honest question, not trying to question anyones beliefs or put anyone down.
If the Conferderate Battle flag is so horrible to so many people because of the horrible things that happened under the flying of it why do so many people use the cross. It is a symbol of something the Romans used to put people to death on all the time. The cross wasn't even a christian symbol until many many years later.
Madcap
07-20-2005, 09:53 PM
why do so many people use the cross. It is a symbol of something the Romans used to put people to death on all the time. The cross wasn't even a christian symbol until many many years later.
In some ways you are right. The Cross was the Roman method of executing traitors and rebels, they used it because the cross was such a humiliating way to die and it served as a warning to all who saw it "piss the provincial govorner, the senate (and leter the Imperator) off and this will happen to you..." If you told a first century Jew, or a 1st century B.C.E. Gaul that one day the cross would be looked at as some sort of symbol for forgiveness and love, they'd have looked at you like you were totally bonkers. Of course, tell all that to a15th centuey Aztec or Inca and you'd get the same reply. The cross itself has presided over some seriously mean shit over the years even after it because a christian symbol...
Bunny
07-21-2005, 09:51 PM
I just found out that they filmed a lot of this movie on the property of someone my family knows....I totally wish my mom had told me when they were filming I could have taken a pic in the car or something. Dukes of Hazard was my favorite show as a kid!
big_daddy
08-05-2005, 09:54 PM
The movie is GREAT!! Loved it, it's very funny. It's not what I would call a PG-13 movie, more like R but it's still worth seeing!
erotictonic
08-05-2005, 10:10 PM
Personally, I think Catherine Bach is hella sexy. Jessica is no Catherine Bach, imho.
erotictonic
08-05-2005, 10:12 PM
Well I'm not going to go watch the movie-- I'm just not interested in it. The little tid-bit about the flag has nothing to do with that decision though.
But living in Georgia where the flag is displayed regurlarly, I'd definetly say it's a disgusting symbol. My mom is almost 50 and my grand mother is alomst 80...Neither of these women should have to be reminded of a time when dogs were set on them to chase them from stores displaying that symbol, or empty beer bottles were thrown at them from cars with the Confederate flag sticker on them.
My grandfather watched his father burn to death, set on fire by men wearing Conferate flags and white sheets. My father at 60 years old knew from his childhood, which areas he'd definetly be hurt or harassed in as opposed to those he "might" be hurt or harrased in by the presence of said Confederate flag display.
Yeah it's just a "symbol"
Those who display it know it exactly what they mean by it and those who hate it know exactly why they hate it.
If the movie was about a group of Germans and there happened to be a swastika throughout the movie, would there even be any debate about it?
This is exactly why I think anyone who would display a confederate flag is white trash. It's fucking disgusting.... end of story.
Yekhefah
08-05-2005, 10:24 PM
That flag is the last vestige of poor whites being able to say they were "superior" to blacks.
That is absolutely NOT true. I am Southern and I am proud to be Southern (when I start dancing, my stage name will be Dixie). I would love to have a Confederate flag sticker on my car, but I live in California and there are too many people who have no clue what that flag means and might vandalise it. It has NOTHING to do with racism - the KKK and a few assorted racists have adopted it, but they have stolen other symbols too and that doesn't make them any less stolen.
To me, the Confederate flag represents my heritage. If everyone else can be proud of their black, Japanese, Italian, Irish, Thai, etc. heritage and display their symbols, I ought to have the same right. My heritage isn't about racism; my family includes black godchildren and "honorary" relatives, as well as adopted Asian cousins. My heritage is simply Southern - we are a tough, proud people with a uniquely relaxed but cultured way of life, we know who we are, and we don't take shit from anybody.
It is also worth pointing out that Mississippi's state flag includes the Stars & Bars, and when a vote was held a few years ago to decide whether it should be changed, black Mississippians voted overwhelmingly to KEEP their state flag. It is their heritage too, and they know it doesn't stand for slavery or racism.
And FWIW, in my experience the rest of the country is MUCH more racist than the South. We were bussed to integrated schools and carefully taught that race is irrelevant to a person's potential, and most of us took that lesson to heart. New York and California may have never had Jim Crow laws, but I can tell you from experience that they are FAR more segregated and racism still runs strong.
If this post makes me a "redneck," so be it.
erotictonic
08-05-2005, 10:36 PM
That is absolutely NOT true. I am Southern and I am proud to be Southern (when I start dancing, my stage name will be Dixie). I would love to have a Confederate flag sticker on my car, but I live in California and there are too many people who have no clue what that flag means and might vandalise it. It has NOTHING to do with racism - the KKK and a few assorted racists have adopted it, but they have stolen other symbols too and that doesn't make them any less stolen.
To me, the Confederate flag represents my heritage. If everyone else can be proud of their black, Japanese, Italian, Irish, Thai, etc. heritage and display their symbols, I ought to have the same right. My heritage isn't about racism; my family includes black godchildren and "honorary" relatives, as well as adopted Asian cousins. My heritage is simply Southern - we are a tough, proud people with a uniquely relaxed but cultured way of life, we know who we are, and we don't take shit from anybody.
It is also worth pointing out that Mississippi's state flag includes the Stars & Bars, and when a vote was held a few years ago to decide whether it should be changed, black Mississippians voted overwhelmingly to KEEP their state flag. It is their heritage too, and they know it doesn't stand for slavery or racism.
And FWIW, in my experience the rest of the country is MUCH more racist than the South. We were bussed to integrated schools and carefully taught that race is irrelevant to a person's potential, and most of us took that lesson to heart. New York and California may have never had Jim Crow laws, but I can tell you from experience that they are FAR more segregated and racism still runs strong.
If this post makes me a "redneck," so be it.
Then why in the world are you in California?
Yekhefah
08-05-2005, 10:42 PM
I would also like to see the non-racist protectors of the rebel flag speak out against the racists who use their flag to promote hate.
We do. All the time.
I'm interested in how you feel about Malcolm X flags, shirts, etc., or about Black Panther logos which have recently come back into vogue, or about an apartment I saw in L.A. with a Chinese flag flying from the balcony, or about Celtic tattoos. These are all symbols of pride in one's heritage, and all have the potential to possibly offend someone else with a different perception of that heritage. Should everyone give up their symbols to avoid possibly offending someone else, or just Southerners?
Yekhefah
08-05-2005, 10:52 PM
Then why in the world are you in California?
I have to be. I work in the Hollywood film industry and this is where the work is. No matter how far the vine grows, though, I know where my roots are and I don't see any reason to be ashamed of it. And I deeply resent being called a racist over it.
madmaxine
08-05-2005, 11:04 PM
^ I do understand what you are saying Yekhefah and apologize if I offended you.
I stopped looking down on Southerners when my friends from Tennessee took me to task for making rude comments about somewhere I'd never been. I felt ashamed- I would have never made comments like that about any other region of the Continuous 48.
California is full of discrimination too- but it's economic. Either you have money or you don't.
That determines much of your standard of living.
infra-red
08-06-2005, 12:53 AM
My g/f has a stars and bars bikini that she wears to our waterpark. Yup, every time we go, people give her dirty looks, usually white folks, but, its her right to wear it! She and I both refuse to apologize for being "white"!
Amethyst
08-06-2005, 01:28 AM
^^Gee, didn't realize the confederate flag stood for "White Pride". Does she wear a hood too :p
You know, there's a way to be proud of your heritage without offending other people. Sure, here in the good ole US, we have the right to wear anything, but If you KNOW someone is going to be bothered by it, then don't have the nerve to act surprised when someone gives you dirty looks or says something to you about it.
Amethyst
08-06-2005, 02:11 AM
I'm interested in how you feel about Malcolm X flags, shirts, etc., or about Black Panther logos which have recently come back into vogue, or about an apartment I saw in L.A. with a Chinese flag flying from the balcony, or about Celtic tattoos. These are all symbols of pride in one's heritage, and all have the potential to possibly offend someone else with a different perception of that heritage. Should everyone give up their symbols to avoid possibly offending someone else, or just Southerners?
We need to stop comparing the dixie flag to the Chinese national flag or Celtic tattoos. Let's try comparing it to the Nazi flag. That's a little closer.
Frankly, I haven't seen any Malcolm X flags or Black Panther logos in vogue as of late, but for someone who is going on about the "real" reason behind the Confederate flag, I would think you would have taken the time to learn about the REAL Black Panthers & Malcolm X before comparing them to the Confederate flag.
The Black Panthers did not import and enslave human beings, make money off the sweat of slaves' backs, go to freaking war in order to keep their "chattle", attack, beat, murder, or commit other atrocities towards POC, nor create laws designed to keep the "dern Nigras" in their place. Those that waved the Confederate flag did. The Black Panthers' mission was to stop what was happening to Black people and other oppressed people during the civil-rights struggle, including confronting the cops who were beating the crap out of, fire-hosing, and sic-ing German Shepherds on anti-Jim Crow protesters. Why would you want to even be associated with that?
http://www.blackpanther.org/TenPoint.htm
IMO, I think most people who are wearing Malcolm X shirts, BP shirts, even Che Guevara shirts, Confed flag shirts, etc... have no idea what those symbols mean and might want to do a little research before putting them on in the name of Black/Latin/Southern pride.
BTW, I'm also from the South. My parents and two of my grandparents had a grand ole time with Jim Crow and people spitting at them, calling them "nigs", having to eat outside IF they were served at all, two other grandparents being called "n*gga-lovers", all by people waving their confederate flags. When they see confederate flags, those are the first images that come to their mind, not some pretty blonde girl sitting on a porch whistlin' dixie. They have to make an effort to NOT be bothered by it, since people like you insist on waving it around claiming it's "southern pride".
Sheesh, my cowboy hat-wearing, ranchin', fishin', good-ole-boy "redneck" boyfriend (he literally has a red neck despite my pleas that he wear sunblock, LOL) from a southern "hick" town in Texas is disturbed by it and HE educated ME on the kind of Southern pride most dixie-flag wavers have, especially those in not-so-Southern states, and in the deep South - DESPITE what these cute little pro-dixie flag websites say.
Do I think your average person waving the dixie flag is a racist? Nah. But to KNOW it offends and hurts people and to do it just 'cause they can, is not being a rebel. It's just being backwards.
I LOVE being from the South and when I would move from city to city, country to country, I was a PROUD TEXAN. Still am. But I'll be damned before I throw on the "stars and bars" to display my Southern Pride. That's what Southern cooking, Southern rock, the Texas Flag, cowboy boots & hats are for :D
big_daddy
08-06-2005, 05:41 AM
erotictonic your statement, "This is exactly why I think anyone who would display a confederate flag is white trash. It's fucking disgusting.... end of story". Is the way people around here feel about strippers. I don't, I have an open mind. But most people I know think this way.
I dug this post up just to say the movie rocks not to drag the BS back out.
erotictonic
08-06-2005, 03:53 PM
erotictonic your statement, "This is exactly why I think anyone who would display a confederate flag is white trash. It's fucking disgusting.... end of story". Is the way people around here feel about strippers. I don't, I have an open mind. But most people I know think this way.
I dug this post up just to say the movie rocks not to drag the BS back out.
Yea well if your father watched your grandfather being burnt to death by a bunch of shitheads in white hoods and bearing confederate flags, you wouldn't be too happy about seeing the confederate flag either. People know that others have used the symbol in hatred for others, yet they continue to bear it. That's why I find it disgusting.
big_daddy
08-06-2005, 04:42 PM
I can see why it bothers you, I'm sorry there are people in this world who could do such a horrible thing. But to label anyone who displays a confederate flag "white trash" I find racist. End of story.
big_daddy
08-06-2005, 04:50 PM
P.S. I do not wear the confederate flag, I don't fly the confederate flag. The only place I care to see the confederate flag is on the roof of a bright orange 1969 Dodge Charger with a big ol' 01 on the door. Something did just come to me, why do so many get ass kicking mad about the flag on the car but you never hear anyone getting mad about the name of the car. Funny how a symbol means more than a human these days.
former_LV_dancer
08-06-2005, 05:21 PM
Something did just come to me, why do so many get ass kicking mad about the flag on the car but you never hear anyone getting mad about the name of the car. Funny how a symbol means more than a human these days.
Oh man, I think this is gonna get ugly again......the movie and flag issue are for two different discussions.....repeat after me "IT'S JUST A MOVIE ABOUT A SILLY TV SHOW".....::)
On topic.....I must say Willie Nelson as Uncle Jessie was genius pick...you go Willie!!!
erotictonic
08-06-2005, 06:23 PM
I can see why it bothers you, I'm sorry there are people in this world who could do such a horrible thing. But to label anyone who displays a confederate flag "white trash" I find racist. End of story.
I'm not black, I'm white. And yes, I do agree, I am prejudiced. I grew up in the South, and I consider Southern people to be the stupidest, most ignorant people in the US, with reason. I experienced it, I experienced the people who display the confederate flag, and I find them disgusting. That's why I don't live there.
Deogol
08-06-2005, 08:27 PM
I'm not black, I'm white. And yes, I do agree, I am prejudiced. I grew up in the South, and I consider Southern people to be the stupidest, most ignorant people in the US, with reason. I experienced it, I experienced the people who display the confederate flag, and I find them disgusting. That's why I don't live there.
Regarding stupid people - you haven't been to California yet have you? :D
Yekhefah
08-06-2005, 09:14 PM
California is full of discrimination too- but it's economic. Either you have money or you don't.
That determines much of your standard of living.
Oh yeah. Most definitely, especially in L.A.
Yekhefah
08-06-2005, 09:22 PM
We need to stop comparing the dixie flag to the Chinese national flag or Celtic tattoos. Let's try comparing it to the Nazi flag. That's a little closer.
It certainly is not. Sure, some Southerners were responsible for some reprehensible things. So were some Americans, some English, and some of just about every group. That includes black people too; it was other black people who sold the slaves in the first place. That doesn't excuse slavery but to say that only white Southerners are culpable is ridiculous. And it doesn't invalidate everything positive about Southern culture.
I'm white but my family is NOT racist and much of my proud white Southern family fought to abolish Jim Crow right along with yours. ENDING slavery and discrimination is just as much a part of our culture as having it once was. And I'm sure you know that less than a fourth of white antibellum Southerners owned slaves; the war was NOT fought over slavery and the overwhelming majority of white Southerners didn't even see slaves on a regular basis, much less own any. And FWIW, there were white slaves (one was my ancestor) and black slaveowners.
I don't see any reason why people can't take the good with the bad, and I don't believe that Southern offenses were so much worse than everyone else's that we should throw our culture out entirely or be ashamed of it. The modern South is much less racist than the rest of the country and is a wonderful place to be from, and I'm proud of it.
erotictonic
08-06-2005, 09:24 PM
Regarding stupid people - you haven't been to California yet have you? :D
Hey, I never said it was perfect, just much better.
big_daddy
08-07-2005, 12:18 AM
If your not black what is this all about? "Yea well if your father watched your grandfather being burnt to death by a bunch of shitheads in white hoods and bearing confederate flags"?
erotictonic
08-07-2005, 02:22 PM
If your not black what is this all about? "Yea well if your father watched your grandfather being burnt to death by a bunch of shitheads in white hoods and bearing confederate flags"?
It's from another post in this thread... I believe it is Tina's post.
big_daddy
08-07-2005, 06:30 PM
Sorry. I'm done with this no one will ever understand the way I feel about it so it don't matter. I don't hate anyone, I just love that car.
former_LV_dancer
08-07-2005, 06:41 PM
Sorry. I'm done with this no one will ever understand the way I feel about it so it don't matter. I don't hate anyone, I just love that car.
I understand ya' Big Daddy ;) ...... To me it's just a cool car from a fun show....I don't take things so damn personally as that....yeee haaaaaa!!!!
Dare I mention my favorite show as a kid was Wonder Woman....and there was an episode where they were cloning Hitler, and there were swastikas shown.....oh me oh my......IT'S CALLED THE FANTASY LAND OF TELEVISION, DON'T TAKE IT TO HEART.....the beauty of TV and movies is....if you don't like something you have the option to change the channel or not see the movie. ;)
erotictonic
08-07-2005, 07:00 PM
I understand ya' Big Daddy ;) ...... To me it's just a cool car from a fun show....I don't take things so damn personally as that....yeee haaaaaa!!!!
Dare I mention my favorite show as a kid was Wonder Woman....and there was an episode where they were cloning Hitler, and there were swastikas shown.....oh me oh my......IT'S CALLED THE FANTASY LAND OF TELEVISION, DON'T TAKE IT TO HEART.....the beauty of TV and movies is....if you don't like something you have the option to change the channel or not see the movie. ;)
I'm glad you feel this way. The truth is, that the media and entertainment industry impact our culture in profound ways. They drive it.
kitana
08-07-2005, 09:01 PM
This is the point. It's just entertainment.
I definitely think the swastika is VERY different from the rebel flag. Swastika was NEVER anything but a racist symbol. Not one person on this earth could say anything different.
I'm that person then. That statement isn't exactly true. It was a holy symbol to many of asian culture for ages before nazis. Just as the pentegram was a holy symbol before it got all wrapped up in satanic culture.
It's always the bad people that bastardize the innocent things, or the meaningful things of others.
erotictonic
08-07-2005, 09:09 PM
It's always the bad people that bastardize the innocent things, or the meaningful things of others.
Correct. And after the symbol is tainted, it just can't be used for good again.
kitana
08-07-2005, 09:27 PM
Correct. And after the symbol is tainted, it just can't be used for good again.
I don't think that's true. The swastika is still used today, as well as the cross, pentegram, and others.
I personally don't give two-shits if I piss anyone off for what I wear (the stars and bars) or what I don't wear. I know what that symbol means to me, and what it can and does mean to others.
To me, the rebel flag, means fun. By that I mean motorcycles and rock concerts. I go to Little Sturgis each and every year and I have fun. I'm out in the sun, meeting new friends, drinking, having a damn ball. And that is what I associate that flag with. I'm sorry if you think I'm "poor, white, uneducated trash" for that; but so be it. Once a year for a weekend I will fly that flag in honor of fun. If that makes me bad, or stupid then call me fuckin' Ellie Mae.
erotictonic
08-07-2005, 09:40 PM
I don't think that's true. The swastika is still used today, as well as the cross, pentegram, and others.
I personally don't give two-shits if I piss anyone off for what I wear (the stars and bars) or what I don't wear. I know what that symbol means to me, and what it can and does mean to others.
To me, the rebel flag, means fun. By that I mean motorcycles and rock concerts. I go to Little Sturgis each and every year and I have fun. I'm out in the sun, meeting new friends, drinking, having a damn ball. And that is what I associate that flag with. I'm sorry if you think I'm "poor, white, uneducated trash" for that; but so be it. Once a year for a weekend I will fly that flag in honor of fun. If that makes me bad, or stupid then call me fuckin' Ellie Mae.
So be it. It's good that you don't need others to validate you. If you do use the symbols you've described though... including the confederate flag, the swastika, or the pentagram, and even the cross in some areas of the world, you must realize that there is a portion of society that will be offended or won't want anything to do with you. As long as you are ok with that, all is well. America is the land of the free, and if someone wants to fly a confederate flag, they should be able to. Just like if I want to think that people who fly the confederate flag are people I don't want to associate with, I should be able to.
Amethyst
08-08-2005, 03:11 PM
It certainly is not.
Umm, yeah, it (the dixie flag) most certainly is like the swastika. I've already been through the history of the swastika sign in this thread. Read through the thread (or hit up google) and compare.
Sure, some Southerners were responsible for some reprehensible things. So were some Americans, some English, and some of just about every group. That includes black people too; it was other black people who sold the slaves in the first place. That doesn't excuse slavery but to say that only white Southerners are culpable is ridiculous. And it doesn't invalidate everything positive about Southern culture.
Did you read ANYTHING in my last post? If so, do you remember that not only am I a Southern belle, but a PROUD one at that? Nowhere have I stated that "all Southerners are bad". This isn't about SOUTHERNERS. It's about waving a flag that stands for the brutalization and systematic racism against Black people.
And thank you for the history lesson, but little note: certain African tribes sold conquered African tribes into slavery to the Dutch. Spoils of war - happened in every civilization. Continues to happen to this day. No argument there.
I'm white but my family is NOT racist and much of my proud white Southern family fought to abolish Jim Crow right along with yours. ENDING slavery and discrimination is just as much a part of our culture as having it once was. And I'm sure you know that less than a fourth of white antibellum Southerners owned slaves; the war was NOT fought over slavery and the overwhelming majority of white Southerners didn't even see slaves on a regular basis, much less own any. And FWIW, there were white slaves (one was my ancestor) and black slaveowners
No one is denying that White people fought alongside Black people to abolish Jim Crow, segregation, etc.. If it were not for members of the majority group (White folks) battling the racist White people, then you can bet the Civil Rights movement would've gone *bust*. However, I'm quite sure no one was waving the dixie flag during the March on Washington though...
Now at your local Klan rally, quite sure sweet Dixie was a-flyin'.
So why would anybody - Black or White - who went to battle to defeat such policies and got their asses chewed by dogs, sprayed by firehoses, beaten to bloody pulps, murdered, etc... want to wave a flag that represented the ones doing it to them?
I don't see any reason why people can't take the good with the bad, and I don't believe that Southern offenses were so much worse than everyone else's that we should throw our culture out entirely or be ashamed of it. The modern South is much less racist than the rest of the country and is a wonderful place to be from, and I'm proud of it.
I have seen some anti-Southener sentimate on the board, but recognize it is not coming from me. Being a Southerner I obviously have no problem with most Southerners. The dixie flag, however, is NOT southern culture. I know some people feel like they HAVE to incorporate it (the whole "rebel" thing), but those that know the history of the flag, understand what it really means. Until I heard it from the mouth of a Southerner from a aversion-racist town and really opened up my eyes, I was also pretty lukewarm about.
Question: why don't rebels use the "Black Flag" of Anarchy? Seems more appropriate to me.
Anyway, neither the flag on the car, nor the name of the car bother me. I'd rather not see it, but it would be stupid to change anything since that's what the car was called and looked like when it first came out.
How is the movie anyway? I heard it was horrible and that I should keep my little $8.
Yekhefah
08-08-2005, 03:41 PM
How is the movie anyway?
I haven't seen it yet, but I plan to this Sunday. I spent this past weekend with my born-and-bred-Californian bf, who is appalled at the very notion of sitting through such a thing, LOL! So I'm going on Sunday to see it by myself.
As for the flag, I suppose it just means different things to different people. I don't see the same thing you do, and you don't see the flag I see, so there it is. We don't all have to agree on everything. :)
Amethyst
08-08-2005, 03:49 PM
I haven't seen it yet, but I plan to this Sunday. I spent this past weekend with my born-and-bred-Californian bf, who is appalled at the very notion of sitting through such a thing, LOL! So I'm going on Sunday to see it by myself.
As for the flag, I suppose it just means different things to different people. I don't see the same thing you do, and you don't see the flag I see, so there it is. We don't all have to agree on everything. :)
LOL, let us know how you like it! If you can get a screen cap of Jessica Simpson in daisy dukes, I'd be oh, so thankful ;)
And I concur - let's agree to disagree and move on.