View Full Version : 5 Tampa area clubs raided
Melonie
07-30-2005, 09:14 AM
I'll bet those girls could sue for their mug shots being posted, and I hope to god that they do.
It doesn't matter. Arrests for misdemeanor and/or felony charges are a matter of public record, and therefore must be made available to the public. Just because this used to occur on page 31 of the local newspaper without pictures doesn't mean that 'modern technology' can't do the same thing ... with or without pictures. Zero chance of a successfullawsuit unless a previous 'gag order' had been put in place by a judge along with the issuance of a warrant authorizing the bust, which was then later violated by cops releasing 'gagged' information. However, under the new law no warrant is necessary - an undercover cop can simply arrest the dancer using his own testimony as the sole evidence against her.
This new law won't hold up.
based on unsuccessful challenges to similar laws in other states, it probably will hold up
"SB 730 — Prohibition on Prostitution
by Senator Fasano
This bill provides that a police officer may testify as an offended party in an action regarding charges filed under s. 796.07, F.S., which prohibits lewdness, prostitution, and assignation. This new language is put in subsection (3) of this statute which addresses admissible testimony at trial to support these charges, such as the reputation of the defendant, the reputation of the place involved in the charge, and any person frequenting such place."
Look, in all honesty, many other states have had this legal arrangement with undercover cops being able to make arrests based on only their own testimony of the offense for a long time - Florida had been an exception to the rule. What's different about this new Florida law is that it also officially opens the legal door for the undercover cop to enter 'guilt by association' evidence at trial i.e. the club where the bust occurred having a previous reputation for 'extras' adding credibility to the arresting officer's testimony. In the final analysis, just like in other states this will boil down to the word of a dancer versus the word of a cop, and guess which one the judge and jury are likely to believe !
emily1015
07-30-2005, 09:18 AM
wow this really makes me scared cause I was thinking of checking out the nude clubs in that area. Manatee county hear I come!
BigGreenMnM
07-30-2005, 10:29 AM
Florida had been an exception to the rule. What's different about this new Florida law is that it also officially opens the legal door for the undercover cop to enter 'guilt by association' evidence at trial i.e. the club where the bust occurred having a previous reputation for 'extras' adding credibility to the arresting officer's testimony.
This is the key IMO to closing down the dives and keeping the chains and top mom and pops under control.
It will also eliminate many of the actual dancer spots where girls can work,I also think this is a good thing,as it will trim off the fat of our industry so to speak.
The State of florida has way to many clubs.
This is what leads to extras and less then standard females entering into the industry.
My advice would be for the florida girls to find top clubs or chain clubs that absolutely refuse to tolaerate extras,not dives that look the other way.
The clubs that look the other way,or the girls who except extras going on in thier club,and of course the extra's girls themselves,are playing in a whole new game with a whole new set of rules.
Mr Hyde
07-30-2005, 10:46 AM
The clause "for the purpose of masturbation" is the kay part of that law. Masturbation, to me, means more than just a brief grab. You gotta be doing more than grabbing a dick to be masturbating it.
Unbelievable. If I were those cops, I'd be embarassed to be doing this for a living.
Mr Hyde
07-30-2005, 10:51 AM
I got news for you MnM...this isn't about "cleaning up" clubs for Florida. The bible thumpers here want to get rid of them. If you lived here, you'd know what I mean. The "complaints" that were lodged with the Sherriff's office (which is bullshit) weren't about this club having extras (besides, there were no extras being given here...compared to Mons Venus, the LDs described were mild). Any complaints were about the clubs being in existence. If you think otherwise, ask the many local dancers from Tampa on SW.
Honestly, I doubt there were complaints filed anyway. The local govt has never liked the clubs in Pasco and this is just their way of trying to drive them away.
Bunny
07-30-2005, 11:01 AM
There is something weird I noticed the first time I drove to Tampa from New Orleans. Along the side of the highway in Florida are all these anti-abortion billboards intermixed with billboards for strip clubs and XXX stores. I'd never seen a billboard for either one until I drove to Tampa. They aren't in Tampa but along I-10 going that way in Florida.
Amethyst
07-30-2005, 11:01 AM
This freaks me out because they've just passed a similar ordinance in San Antonio. I know the dancers can't sue for having their names in the paper, but what about their addresses? I mean, granted it doesn't take much to find a woman's address through her name (unless she is living with someone else, or uses a different last name for dancing), but should the press & smoking gun be able to put their addresses out there for all to see?
BigGreenMnM
07-30-2005, 11:25 AM
Oh i agree,I think it is an attempt to drive them out,good riddence imo.
I think only the best will survive,and im ok with that and i dont thump a bible.
lol how long do you think Mons will survive???
If its there in 2 years,i would bet its just being kept open by the police as a coral to catch bad guys,its been done many times before,it wouldnt surprise me if thats the case now.
I would tell any florida dancer,who is dancing in a club known for extras or bullshit,DONT go to work!!!
Find a large top club or a good chain to work for,or find other forms of work.
The top clubs will survive this,so will the chains,but even they will get hit a few times before its over(because of extras girls).But at least most of them will provide the girls lawyers.
I think all Florida is doing is cutting its numbers,establishing whats ok and whats not,and its all going to be at the expense of the dives and the dancers in them.
All these girls should serve as a warning???
As for the girls in Tampa,specially the ones on SW,time to do your homework ladies.
I have seen a few here on SW that i would bet a nut on DONT know the rules and regulations in the state.
They blindly belive the owners who tell them what the laws are.
I would bet MOST of the girls here from florida,the post of Melodies, is the first time they have seen it in black and white.
Bridgette
07-30-2005, 12:12 PM
BigGreen, give us one example of a locale where new laws like this were passed and the number of clubs actually decreased and/or the "dirty" clubs were closed. I never heard of this happening anywhere. In fact, all I've seen is that MORE clubs wind up opening and MORE dirty dancing goes on. Back up your claims or quitcher preachin!
And what timing! This thread from a long-time Houston customer, giving us a detailed perfect example of what melonie, I and others are talking about here. These laws historically haven't CLEANED UP the local SC activities - THEY MAKE IT WORSE!
amrthenewme
07-30-2005, 12:53 PM
I live in Polk County, FL. Everything of any "sexual" content has been made illegal here. I was in shock for quite a while after moving her almost 2 yrs ago. No "sexual" magazines, vidoes, stores, clubs, nothing. They even block access to websites containing "sexual content" that one would have to pay for with a credit card.
It is insane. People no longer have the choice to decide what is moral, for themselves.
Bunny
07-30-2005, 01:42 PM
From what I understand this stuff happens every so often in Tampa. Technically there is a 6 foot rule but it's not enforced. Then some politician decides they want to make themselves look good so they push enforcement of the rule. Then people get pissed and spend tons of money fighting all the charges. Then it dies down. Wait a couple of years, do it again.
PrincessPatti618
07-30-2005, 02:12 PM
Wow... my two cents:
First, I found it funny that the DJ was 'found in possession" of the money he had JUST handed him... why do reports always read ridiculously like that? It made me think I should start trading all my money for different bills with other girls or something, lol sorry just stuck out to me.
But in seriousness, isn't it true that the government can't tell you do something illegal. It isn't really applicable in these cases (at least according to the POLICEs side of the story). But for example if you were air dancing for some guy(assuming he was 5-0) and he was like, "hey can't you just touch my leg" (magnify to whatever magnatude) and you said "can't i get in trouble for that?" They can not tell you no? I hope that makes sense, but I heard my owner telling one of the girls at my club that and I looked into some case law and it appears to be true... not sure though.
michele1
07-30-2005, 02:28 PM
Big grren has no idea what he is talking about. If you dont live and work in florida dont assume. In this area there are no chain clubs besides Thee doll house. Also they bust all clubs when these laws come into effect not just dives with extras. Most of the offenses are for simple lap dances nothing more. Which has been going on in florida for years and mons venus has been in tampa something like 20 years and its known all over the country its not going anywere. Tampa bay is about lap dances plain and simple thats the way the clubs are here. All of them except thee doll house.
michele1
07-30-2005, 02:32 PM
Oh and deja vue. Forgot about that one.
BigGreenMnM
07-30-2005, 02:50 PM
Big grren has no idea what he is talking about. If you dont live and work in florida dont assume. In this area there are no chain clubs besides Thee doll house. Also they bust all clubs when these laws come into effect not just dives with extras. Most of the offenses are for simple lap dances nothing more. Which has been going on in florida for years and mons venus has been in tampa something like 20 years and its known all over the country its not going anywere. Tampa bay is about lap dances plain and simple thats the way the clubs are here. All of them except thee doll house.
ehhhhhh
I usually dont know what im talking about so i cant argue with you.
The research i was involved in when the papermoon went to the sarasota area isnt really relevent to Tampa,so most of my points are referring to florida as a whole.
Dont you think it odd that the doll house and the Vu didnt get raided???
Do they not do lapdances???
michele1
07-30-2005, 02:54 PM
No Thee doll house does not do lap dances. Deja vue yes but these clubs are in a different area. Plus I have heard even though this law is statewide is was meant to harass pasco county clubs. Who knows. If they are sincerly making arests for girls doing what they shouldnt be then fine but if they are handing out prostitution charges for simple laps than that is wrong.
BigGreenMnM
07-30-2005, 02:58 PM
I dont know,but does pasco county have a 6 foot rule???
sol_de_pr2
07-30-2005, 03:20 PM
Well, most of these dancers should be arrested for being ugly! Numbers 6, 9 and 13 should seriously consider moving to Puerto Rico ;D No problem asking me for drinks ;D
doc-catfish
07-30-2005, 03:30 PM
Dont you think it odd that the doll house and the Vu didnt get raided???
Not at all, because these raids were conducted by a county sheriff's department. The clubs that didn't get raided are probably in a different jurisdiction therefore they couldn't be busted, at least not by these authorities.
I hate to tell the citizens of Pasco County (or any place where strip clubs are being relocated to outlying areas) but those clubs probably wouldn't be there if Tampa, St. Pete, and Clearwater didn't have such strict laws on the books.
Around here, most of the better clubs are technically outside their respective cities boundaries, not because they want to be there, but because zoning laws and other restrictive rules inside the city limits prevent them from running a viable business there.
Mr Hyde
07-30-2005, 03:33 PM
These clubs are in Pasco county, which is a suburban county just to the north of Hillsborough county, which is where Tampa is. As fas I know, Pasco laws are more relaxed than Hillsborough/Tampa, but they still have it in for SCs. The whole area is wierd with this stuff...the funny thing is, the way the laws are in Tampa itself, it allows for places like the Mons, which is where you can't get a drink but you can get a handful of tit...versus Thee Dollhouse, where you can't get tit but can buy a drink.
There are just enough backwards ass morons in the area to keep a few moralistic halfwits on the county commission, who usually drive the raids, etc.
Amethyst
07-30-2005, 03:54 PM
This may sound silly, but isn't there a way dancers could get around the whole prostitution risk? Like stating upfront that the all monies are for airdances (or whatever is "legal" in a club) only and anything else (contact) is because, I don't know, "I like you" or otherwise for free?
Just trying to think outside of the box here...
BigGreenMnM
07-30-2005, 03:58 PM
This may sound silly, but isn't there a way dancers could get around the whole prostitution risk? Like stating upfront that the all monies are for airdances (or whatever is "legal" in a club) only and anything else (contact) is because, I don't know, "I like you" or otherwise for free?
Just trying to think outside of the box here...
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you!!!!!!
BigGreenMnM
07-30-2005, 04:08 PM
I hate to tell the citizens of Pasco County (or any place where strip clubs are being relocated to outlying areas) but those clubs probably wouldn't be there if Tampa, St. Pete, and Clearwater didn't have such strict laws on the books.
.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!
Not that i know what im talking about or anything,but why do these clubs pop up in the counties outside of industry standard areas???
Could it be for the extras or for the raised chance of getting them???
No way huh?????
BigGreenMnM
07-30-2005, 04:15 PM
the funny thing is, the way the laws are in Tampa itself, it allows for places like the Mons, which is where you can't get a drink but you can get a handful of tit...versus Thee Dollhouse, where you can't get tit but can buy a drink.
ummmmmmm,as someone in the industry,not even someone who's Tit is in question,I would think we ALL want the later.
I place where you can have a drink and look at a tit.
Its the clubs sellin tit in hand and the custies looking for it,ooooops,and the dancers allowing it,that is causing these raids.
Its not the girls or the clubs playing by the rules.
There are just enough backwards ass morons in the area to keep a few moralistic halfwits on the county commission, who usually drive the raids, etc.
Im not on the county commision,but i can sometimes admit to the moron majority who dont want extra's clubs on the outside of town.
It takes money out of the hands of the clubs and girls who are following the rules"when in rome".
We as "normal" and liberal people are to blame for all of this anti sex legislation and criminaliztion of sexually oriented activities and businesses.
I am tired of seeing anti abortion signs by Pro Life across America, and various independent people in the rural areas I drive through regularly. I NEVER see any signs saying "Christian Conservatives suck, or "Condoms are a good thing" as you see advertised on BET. People who think like we do just roll over and play dead. It's like letting someone punch you and not hitting back./:O
Howard Dean speaks out AGAINST the Christian Conservatives openly, and the Democratic Party doesn't like it because they want their votes.
ALL of us who are liberal thinkers and who are open minded need to become vigilant and FIGHT this old fashoioned mindset in power across this country.
A LOT of people think all this enforcement against adult oriented businesses and abstinence only education is bullshit, but we don't FIGHT. Liberal people need to be able to put the money up to match what the conservatives have spent to wage war against this crap.Why is this NOT happening.
Marching, and organized protests will help because we will get publicity.
Why are us "normal" people letting the conservatives have their way without a fight? Planned Parenthood should have a billboard supporting abortion next to every anti abortion one.
Everyone who works in this industry or patronizes it, and who is against the seuxally oppressed direction this country is going, could put pressure on government to stop this nonsense, but it is not happening.
There are plenty of wealthy liberal people who could put together funding to fight this crap, but it only happens in the courtroom, and it is not in the faces of the average citizens, who need to see the other side.
If we as "normal" citizens, and there are millions of us, would stand up, and politicians realize that they will not gain anything from investing time in trying to curb and restrict adult entertainment, anti strip club laws as recently passed in Missouri and Nashville, and busts of dancers for exposure and rubbing on a guys dick through his pants would cease.
BigGreenMnM
07-30-2005, 04:29 PM
lets just put full penetration pics on the billboards,and not just of a man and a woman,we would also have to have billboards of a guy blowing a guy huh????
Sorry,some of us gotta raise kids in the middle of all this sex industry.
Sorry Tina,your post sounds like a pep rally to let anything but anything be front page.
There is always going to be a bedroom door.
Thank god or allah or buddah.
Mr Hyde
07-30-2005, 04:54 PM
MNM you keep saying "extras clubs" but for god's sake, there were none, or very little, extras being done here, unless you consider grinding an extra. In most places in Florida that I've been to, extras are pretty much anything beyond touching. This is not about getting rid of extras...no offense, but whoever it was that said you don't know what you're talking about was correct.
BigGreenMnM
07-30-2005, 05:37 PM
MNM you keep saying "extras clubs" but for god's sake, there were none, or very little, extras being done here, unless you consider grinding an extra. In most places in Florida that I've been to, extras are pretty much anything beyond touching.
If there is a 6 foot rule,guess what,any touching IS an extra,and the girls,even if blindly led,are still doing extras.
Grinding IS an extra in a county where they have a 6 foot rule.
Its also dry fucking,or as the county is saying,masterbation.
Sorry to break it to the custies and dancers.
Surprise!!!!!!!!!
This is not about getting rid of extras...no offense, but whoever it was that said you don't know what you're talking about was correct.
I dont think i was the first to say it,but I sure agree with it.
If I say something that is correct(like now)and im not correct,I can say anything and not be correct.
I have said many times on this forum,im full of shit,im old and outdated,and i have a showbar mentality when looking at the issues of this industy.
No way can anything I say be ok across the board.
Anyone who takes what I say as gosple acording to MnM, as truth, should have thier head examond.
i cant even spell most of the words i use,how the fuck can anyone expect my words to ring true????
but heres another question for the class.....
If all the clubs in one county have to play by the rules,how come the next county over can break them???
Doesnt this directly effect the girls dancing by the rules???
Im for the clubs and the dancers who follow the rules and have little pity,if any,for the clubs and girls who dont.
It isnt like the rules aint posted for everyone to see.
Its the guys and gals loooking at the rules and saying "fuck you".
Well,all im saying is "fuck you" back,enjoy the raids.
Im glad someone added the Vu's and the Doll house.
I wont say they are shininng examples,but they sure do gotta play by the rules huh???
Why would someone balk at the fringe clubs not working under the same rules???
tampadancer
07-30-2005, 06:17 PM
yea, deja vu is a great example.
full nude, full HARD grinding. they're practically holy. gimme a break.
nobody acknowledges the 6 foot rule because its RETARDED. NOBODY put a gun to any of these guys heads and forced them to come into a strip club, pay their cover, and buy lapdances. AND I HAVE NEVER met a patron who was offended by my dancing within six feet of them.
These undercover cops now have the authority to choose what is OFFENSIVE to them and arrest girls for it?! what is that about?
If somone is going to be offended by nudity or lapdances, they don't belong in the club in the first place. And honestly, i've never heard of anyone being offended by nudity in strip clubs other than these so-called law enforcement officers.
Biggreen - you're rubbin me the wrong way here man. You really don't know what youre talking about. While showbars are great, lets be realistic- they hardly exist anymore. Dancers make their money giving lapdances. Trust me, I am the furthest thing from a "dirty" dancer, but I do give sensual, sexy lapdances.
I wouldnt be able to pay my rent if I started demanding standing six feet from a customer during a dance. Hell, i couldn't even stand in the same booth as him! You know, come after dancers and chastize us for doing our jobs when you have a sex change and are trying to make it as a dancer in this industry. Walk a mile in our shoes, AND then you will have the authority to say "fuck you" to us.
tampafldancer
07-30-2005, 06:40 PM
hell yea!!!
Foxey
07-30-2005, 06:58 PM
Wow... after reading those articles and the police reports I literally feel sick. I feel so fucking horrible for those girls. They really didn't do fuck all! Grinding in a lap dance? What else are you supposed to do! This is so disturbing and upsetting. How dare they post the full names and addresses of these women. I hope that those women sue the fuck out of those websites. That could have been me. MnM, how is someone grinding in a lap dance corrupting your children?
BigGreenMnM
07-30-2005, 07:05 PM
yea, deja vu is a great example.
full nude, full HARD grinding. they're practically holy. gimme a break.
no breaks,no excuses.
Laws of Rome are the laws of Rome.
how can the girls at these clubs compete without offering the extras the fring club do??
It cost them money and spots on the rotation if they are cought.
The girls in these type clubs are what FORCING girls into extras imo,just to keep up.
nobody acknowledges the 6 foot rule because its RETARDED.
retarded is in the eyes of the holder.
i dont think a 6 foot rule is retarded.
Are we dancers or dry fucks????
We are the fantasy,nothing more.
besides,it the freeekin law!!!!!!
How can someone act surprised or shocked/pissed when these bust happen????
Its criminals breaking the law???
Yes or no????
NOBODY put a gun to any of these guys heads and forced them to come into a strip club, pay their cover, and buy lapdances. AND I HAVE NEVER met a patron who was offended by my dancing within six feet of them.
walk into your closest mall or public park.
Give a lapdance to the first guy you see sitting on a park bench.
Im betting he wont object.(I wont either if your ever staraddlin me)
These undercover cops now have the authority to choose what is OFFENSIVE to them and arrest girls for it?! what is that about?
Im guessing its about the LAW,nothing more,or they wont have a leg to stand on.
Girls giving lapdances in a county where they have a 6 foot rule are ASKING to be foder for the political cannon.
True???
If somone is going to be offended by nudity or lapdances, they don't belong in the club in the first place. And honestly, i've never heard of anyone being offended by nudity in strip clubs other than these so-called law enforcement officers.
then you would have no problem with girls sucking dick in the booth next to you,or guess what,your on my side,like it or not.
Biggreen - you're rubbin me the wrong way here man. You really don't know what youre talking about.
how many times do i gotta agree with this forum???
Nothing I say is worth the paper its written on!!!!!
and if its on the internet,sheeeeeeeesh,its fuckin worthless!!!!!
Do NOT listen to anything I say or the advice I give!!!!!!!!
for fucks sake...
#1.Im a man,I will fuck you given the chance!(make no mistake about it)
#2.Its the internet,who the fuck belives everything they see???
While showbars are great, lets be realistic- they hardly exist anymore. Dancers make their money giving lapdances. Trust me, I am the furthest thing from a "dirty" dancer, but I do give sensual, sexy lapdances.
hardly exist????
wake up and smell the coffee of our industry,only the showbars and the top clubs will survive.This is an all out attack on the smaller clubs with no lawyers and the clubs that turn a blind eye to the extras.
why would girls have a prob with that???
It may not happen in your short venture into this industry,but it will happen in the end.
I wouldnt be able to pay my rent if I started demanding standing six feet from a customer during a dance.
You could if this was all about the stage and dancing.
add in the extras,and this is what we all survive off of.
You cant survive off the 6 foot rule only because the girls at the club in the next county will dry fuck a custie.
True or false????
BigGreenMnM
07-30-2005, 07:09 PM
That could have been me. MnM, how is someone grinding in a lap dance corrupting your children?
Kewl,im ok with that and wont take offense,its par for the course for people who dont tow the "anything goes"line.
Im sorry,your entertainers,dancers.Nothing more.
If custies want to "get off",call an escort for the chance,or a prostitute for the gurantee.
Dont come into the clubs if your looking for a cumshot.
That includes the dancers willing to swallow it.
Silverback
07-30-2005, 07:09 PM
[QUOTE=Melonie]In principle I'm in complete agreement with you. But in actual practice, these busts will make the industry dirtier not cleaner, for the very reasons I described in previous posts.
QUOTE]
Mel,
You would make a fine Reverend Mother.:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Gesserit
"Laws to suppress tend to strengthen what they would prohibit. This is the fine point on which all the legal professions of history have based their job security."
--Bene Gesserit Coda--
Lilith
07-30-2005, 07:43 PM
If all the clubs in one county have to play by the rules,how come the next county over can break them???
Doesnt this directly effect the girls dancing by the rules???
Im for the clubs and the dancers who follow the rules and have little pity,if any,for the clubs and girls who dont.
It isnt like the rules aint posted for everyone to see.
Its the guys and gals loooking at the rules and saying "fuck you".
Well,all im saying is "fuck you" back,enjoy the raids.
You don't get it. This doesn't have sweet FA to do with "the rules". Look at it this way:
Come down on the clubs and they'll see to it that the laws are kept to end the harassment. Correct? Not a chance in hell, actually. Strippers are like cases of beer; if someone comes in one night and takes all your beer it's not a big deal because there is always more beer. Call a few fellow bar owners and borrow some beer with which to finish out the night, or wait for the beer truck to deliver more in the morning. Either way, you're not out much and it's just beer. Take a club's entire shift of strippers and they sincerely don't care. They would probably be more annoyed if you took their jacket. In short, laws schmaws, someone else turned eighteen today.
Well then, crack down on the strippers and they'll see to it that they're not breaking the law. Sure. Right up to the point where they realise that they're going to jail no matter what, whether they broke any laws or not. A girl in this raid went to jail for saying, "I'm thirsty." Point-blank, there wasn't a goddamned chance in hell of anyone getting out of going to jail that night - guilty or innocent.
You could try to plead that some sense of personal ethics should compel these women to play by the proper laws even knowing it won't save them from an arrest. Try this one on for size: you're driving down the highway. You've never been pulled over in your life and have always driven sensibly. Your options are 1) to stay within the speeding limit and someone will give you $10, but you will get a speeding ticket anyway or 2) drive ten miles over the limit and get $100, plus the speeding ticket. So, BigGreen, what do you do?
Rules, feh. These women were on their way to jail as soon as they walked in to work. Not that I don't hold out hope, but I'm fairly sure that you still don't get it.
tampadancer
07-30-2005, 07:56 PM
<cracks knuckles>
i dont think a 6 foot rule is retarded.
Are we dancers or dry fucks????
uh, i've never "gotten anyone off" by giving a lapdance.
walk into your closest mall or public park.
Give a lapdance to the first guy you see sitting on a park bench.
Im betting he wont object.(I wont either if your ever staraddlin me)
i dont see the relevance of this to you argument. how would giving a lapdance to a guy on a park dance have any correlation with the busts going on inside of a strip club?
then you would have no problem with girls sucking dick in the booth next to you,or guess what,your on my side,like it or not.
green, there is an astronomical difference between "sucking dick" and giving a lap dance. you cannot compare the two.
hardly exist????
wake up and smell the coffee of our industry,only the showbars and the top clubs will survive.This is an all out attack on the smaller clubs with no lawyers and the clubs that turn a blind eye to the extras.
showbars that dont have lapdancers - WHERE ARE THEY??! AND GREEN, i know you realize that the top clubs (say PEC) are loaded with girls giving lapdances and more- they just wear gowns and carry themselves differently.
This is not an attack limited to small clubs, its an attack on the adult industry by right wing conservatives and bible thumpers trying to force their "holier than thou" attitudes on us all. TRUST me, this is not just about getting rid of small clubs, its about getting rid of this "immoral, disgusting" industry altogether.[/QUOTE]
You cant survive off the 6 foot rule only because the girls at the club in the next county will dry fuck a custie.
True or false????
no, green, youre wrong again. i cant survive off of that because no man in his right mind would pay me $25 dollars for what he can experience, stageside, for a $1 tip.
LoveSexMoney
07-30-2005, 08:03 PM
^it sounds like the lamest charge you can slap on somebody...
pheobo
07-30-2005, 08:03 PM
I live just north of Tampa on the southern side of Pasco county. I've never visited any clubs in Pasco, but this sucks. I'm going to look into it and make sure I vote accordingly.
At least Pam Iorio in tampa has said she doens't expect to spend Tampa $ on enforcing the 3 ft rule when there is street prostitution on Nebraska Ave.
tampadancer
07-30-2005, 08:04 PM
solicitation of a beverage is asking a patron to buy a drink for you. and, yes, it is as stupid as it seems.
Lilith
07-30-2005, 08:05 PM
What is "solicitation of a beverage?" Is it as stupid as it seems?
Well, Jess, let's examine the phrase, shall we? }:D
Solicitation - to ask for or request something
Beverage - a consumable liquid substance.
To "solicit a beverage" is to "ask for a drink", in layman's terms. And yes, it is just exactly as stupid as you thought.
NaughtyAngel
07-30-2005, 09:21 PM
I live near both clubs, Lollipops and Bare Assets. The community is mostly comprised of old people. Last year they bitched about strip clubs. They lost. It's probably just to satisfy these people but the charges won't stick. They didn't stick last time. It's probably just for show too. I feel bad for the girls. Their privacy has been invaded. What the hell is up with the deputy sheriffs? Idiots. Pay for lap dances then arrest them. Hypocrits.
Terpsichore
07-30-2005, 09:31 PM
Question... are nude air dances legal in Pasco ?
Melonie
07-30-2005, 10:08 PM
While showbars are great, lets be realistic- they hardly exist anymore. Dancers make their money giving lapdances. Trust me, I am the furthest thing from a "dirty" dancer, but I do give sensual, sexy lapdances.
hardly exist????
wake up and smell the coffee of our industry,only the showbars and the top clubs will survive.This is an all out attack on the smaller clubs with no lawyers and the clubs that turn a blind eye to the extras.
why would girls have a prob with that???
It may not happen in your short venture into this industry,but it will happen in the end.
Actually, tighter enforcement of state prostitution laws and local anti-dance club ordinances in other parts of the country DOES help the top shelf show clubs ... in the sense that many businessmen, tourists etc. will migrate to a club where the risk of being busted is essentially zero. Of course in terms of total strip club customers, this group only comprises perhaps 20%. Therefore the top shelf show club business model is only viable for say one existing club in five, and can only accomodate hiring one existing dancer in five. This is all well and good for girls who are '9's and '10's, but essentially leaves all the other dancers out in the cold. Also, the vast 'oversupply' of girls trying to get hired at the top shelf show clubs allows the show club owners to be very picky about the girls they do hire, and also allows the club to institute high stage fees, allows the club to retain a fat percentage of private dance/VIP room/Champagne room moneys charged to the customer etc. Bottom line on show clubs is that girls who are '9's and '10's will still have a 'bust-proof' dancing job, but they may not be able to take home as much money as they formerly did because of the stage fees and percentages which now must go to the club.
Question... are nude air dances legal in Pasco ?
In the absence of alcohol sales, yes. However, being legal does not mean being saleable ! As I tried to make the point about earlier, 80% of strip club customers are not going to be willing to pay show club cover charges and high show club prices for 'low mileage' entertainment on a regular basis. This leaves a big market for 'high mileage' clubs, whether that 'high mileage' is legal or not. Combining this with the fact that from a legal standpoint it is not really any more harmful for a girl to have 2 or 10 or 50 prostitution busts on her criminal record, and you get a scenario where 'sleaze clubs' can operate very profitably. Yes every 6 months or so there is a significant risk that busts will occur, that legal fees and fines will have to be paid, and that one more charge will be added to the girls' criminal record. But in the meantime it's business as usual, with actually an even higher earnings potential due to 'extras', HJ's, BJ's etc. From the pictures of the busted dancers, it would appear upon first impression that girl #4 "Shanna" already knows the drill - smile pretty for the camera, pay one more fine and take one more black mark, and get ready to go back to work tomorrow.
The business model that will NOT fly in this scenario is 'middle of the road' clubs employing say dancers who are one 'rung' below the girls who were hired by the top shelf show clubs. Guys who are content with eye candy will go to the show clubs, and guys who want high contact will go to the 'sleaze' clubs, leaving these 'middle of the road' clubs with very few customers and very little income potential.
Thus for a dancer who is say an '8', if she can't get hired in one of the top shelf show clubs, she'll be facing the dilemma of going along with the 'extras' environment in a 'sleaze' club (and risking a guilt by association bogus bust even if she herself doesn't choose to offer serious 'extras'), or getting out of the exotic dancing business. This is the real end result of stricter law enforcement against strip clubs.
It's probably just to satisfy these people but the charges won't stick. They didn't stick last time. It's probably just for show too. I feel bad for the girls. Their privacy has been invaded. What the hell is up with the deputy sheriffs? Idiots. Pay for lap dances then arrest them. Hypocrits.
While I understand that Florida girls are upset over this recent legal change, i.e. the new ability for undercover cops to make busts based solely on their own testimony, for the sake of their own futures Florida girls do need to come to grips with the reality of this new situation. A. cops no longer need hard evidence to bust a dancer - all they need is to make a charge on paper based on their own 'observations'. B. in the absence of a club security tape showing that a dancer did NOT engage in excessive contact with the undercover cop, it will be a word of the dancer versus word of the cop situation in court with a jury box full of retirees, civil servants, housewives etc deciding who is telling the truth. C. politically speaking, busting dancers is a good source of conservative votes as well as a good source of revenue for local gov't, meaning that local mayors and cops can afford to fight legal appeals - also there is a large body of legal precedent from other states which supports the local politicians and cops more so than the strip clubs where appeals are concerned.
This may sound silly, but isn't there a way dancers could get around the whole prostitution risk? Like stating upfront that the all monies are for airdances (or whatever is "legal" in a club) only and anything else (contact) is because, I don't know, "I like you" or otherwise for free?
One angle being used in some states (actually it's required by state law in one state, but not enforced) is to remove all financial transactions between the customer and the dancer directly. This means that from a legal standpoint the customer is buying his private dance from the club via the cash register, and that the dancer is simply 'doing her job'. Thus as long as the dancer does not accept a tip from the customer it is hard for undercover cops to prove the 'in exchange for money' side of a prostitution bust. Of course, why any dancer would want to give 'extras' without receiving additional money in return is a whole 'nuther story. Also, such arrangements which funnel money through the club's cash register also result in nightly/weekly payouts to the dancer by the club for the dancer's 'share' of the private dances she sold, which creates financial records with ensuing IRS consequences.
My advice based on past experiences in other states ... unless a Florida dancer is 'show club' material, or unless a Florida dancer is comfortable working in an 'extras' environment where busts and a criminal record become business as usual, I would already be packing for a move to a different state. At the very least I would be taking a hard look at the local politics of nearby cities/counties, trying to identify those cities/counties which are LEAST likely to direct law enforcement resources towards strip clubs, and considering a short distance move.
BigGreenMnM
07-31-2005, 06:42 AM
Actually, tighter enforcement of state prostitution laws and local anti-dance club ordinances in other parts of the country DOES help the top shelf show clubs ... in the sense that many businessmen, tourists etc. will migrate to a club where the risk of being busted is essentially zero. Of course in terms of total strip club customers, this group only comprises perhaps 20%. Therefore the top shelf show club business model is only viable for say one existing club in five, and can only accomodate hiring one existing dancer in five. This is all well and good for girls who are '9's and '10's, but essentially leaves all the other dancers out in the cold. Also, the vast 'oversupply' of girls trying to get hired at the top shelf show clubs allows the show club owners to be very picky about the girls they do hire, and also allows the club to institute high stage fees, allows the club to retain a fat percentage of private dance/VIP room/Champagne room moneys charged to the customer etc. Bottom line on show clubs is that girls who are '9's and '10's will still have a 'bust-proof' dancing job, but they may not be able to take home as much money as they formerly did because of the stage fees and percentages which now must go to the club.
Thank you for explaining it better.This is pretty much what my point was.
I dont agree with the loss of money for the 8's, 9's and 10's though,I think the money will increase for them with the 4-7's leaving the industry.
I also think with the 4-7's leaving that alot of the extras would also go away.
Yes some 8-10's do extras,just not as many imo,they dont have to.
A 4-7 in a room full of top entertainers has little choice,do extras or go home broke.
Im ok with the 1 in 5 clubs closing down and im ok with 7's and lessor leaving the industry.
What customer goes to a club looking for a 4 and doesnt have extras on his mind???
Thats why he goes to that club and not the showbar down the road.
Its all about setting an industry standard and cleaning it up,its not ment to offend.
In the absence of alcohol sales, yes. However, being legal does not mean being saleable ! As I tried to make the point about earlier, 80% of strip club customers are not going to be willing to pay show club cover charges and high show club prices for 'low mileage' entertainment on a regular basis. This leaves a big market for 'high mileage' clubs, whether that 'high mileage' is legal or not.
So your saying we are forced to do extras??
The top clubs have to offer extras or the custie will go down the street to a high milage club??
I agree!!!!
The cure is shutting down the high milage clubs,not make the clubs and girls that ARE following the laws and only serving whats on the legal menu have to adapt.
Combining this with the fact that from a legal standpoint it is not really any more harmful for a girl to have 2 or 10 or 50 prostitution busts on her criminal record, and you get a scenario where 'sleaze clubs' can operate very profitably. Yes every 6 months or so there is a significant risk that busts will occur, that legal fees and fines will have to be paid, and that one more charge will be added to the girls' criminal record. But in the meantime it's business as usual, with actually an even higher earnings potential due to 'extras', HJ's, BJ's etc. From the pictures of the busted dancers, it would appear upon first impression that girl #4 "Shanna" already knows the drill - smile pretty for the camera, pay one more fine and take one more black mark, and get ready to go back to work tomorrow.
Dont alot of states have a three strikes rule??
Wont it be a felony after the third time of the same offense??
And while Shanna may be smiling now,im sure in the future the black marks on her record for prostitution will come back to haunt her or hamper her.
Its like if someone jumps off a tall building.
As they pass the apts going down,they can smile and wave to the people on thie porches and act like everything is ok.
Its not,it ends in a splat.
Its not the fall that kills you,its the sudden stop at the end.
The business model that will NOT fly in this scenario is 'middle of the road' clubs employing say dancers who are one 'rung' below the girls who were hired by the top shelf show clubs. Guys who are content with eye candy will go to the show clubs, and guys who want high contact will go to the 'sleaze' clubs, leaving these 'middle of the road' clubs with very few customers and very little income potential.
My whole point is wanting the dives and the middle of the road clubs closed.
Keep the elite.
This isnt kickball in school,not everyone has to be picked.
Thus for a dancer who is say an '8', if she can't get hired in one of the top shelf show clubs, she'll be facing the dilemma of going along with the 'extras' environment in a 'sleaze' club (and risking a guilt by association bogus bust even if she herself doesn't choose to offer serious 'extras'), or getting out of the exotic dancing business. This is the real end result of stricter law enforcement against strip clubs.
Again,this is what im trying to say.
I dont think the 8's will be excluded any time soon,but anything less is what im saying needs to go.
The 4-7's shouldnt have a club to go to,they should not be in this business at all except as support staff imo.
The male dancing world doesnt except 4-7's,why should the female dancing world??
My advice based on past experiences in other states ... unless a Florida dancer is 'show club' material, or unless a Florida dancer is comfortable working in an 'extras' environment where busts and a criminal record become business as usual, I would already be packing for a move to a different state. At the very least I would be taking a hard look at the local politics of nearby cities/counties, trying to identify those cities/counties which are LEAST likely to direct law enforcement resources towards strip clubs, and considering a short distance move.
exactly.
Good advice imo.
Run dont walk.
evan_essence
07-31-2005, 07:26 AM
The cure is shutting down the high milage clubs,not make the clubs and girls that ARE following the laws and only serving whats on the legal menu have to adapt.Well, here's the flaw in your argument. I don't believe that's possible with the current laws and the amount of enforcement most jurisdictions are willing to commit. There's too much money in running a high mileage club to get it to go away by swatting at it every now and then. The cops don't have time to raid it nightly. There are laws in some jurisdictions that make the club owners responsible for an ongoing pattern of offenses within the club, but has anyone ever seen a club actually closed under a law like that? Even if they were, others would pop up to take their place.
Actually, there is a way to gain strict compliance but I probably shouldn't type this out loud. Regulate clubs much the same way casinos and riverboat gambling are watched. Set up a state licensing commission that scrutinizes the background of club owners before granting a license. Limit the number of clubs in a given geographic area. Hold the owners responsible for what's going on inside their clubs. Do regulatory audits and impose big fines on the owners for violations. Require the clubs to pay for the regulation infrastructure through taxes on the clubs, including money to fund an officer of the law (state, not a local yokel) to be stationed on duty within the club at all times it's open. Radical, but like I said, it works for gambling.
But you know that's not going to pass any legislature. For one, there'd be a public outcry from some of the moron majority that the state was "sanctioning" sex businesses through establishing such a law, and secondly, the clubs would throw all their money and politicking against it. Nope, it's easier just to round up the usual suspects every so often to make it look like they're doing something. The result will be a lower class of employee in the clubs with little more to lose by performing illegal extras. My prediciton is that authorities will never actually follow through to the extent needed to shut down the high mileage clubs. Therefore, BG, don't hold your breath.
-Ev
doc-catfish
07-31-2005, 07:58 AM
I don't believe that's possible with the current laws and the amount of enforcement most jurisdictions are willing to commit. There's too much money in running a high mileage club to get it to go away by swatting at it every now and then. The cops don't have time to raid it nightly.
They also have a lot less incentive to do it when the clubs are sending "anonymous" checks to the local LE's Widows and Orphans fund. Its hard to get eggs from the golden goose if you end up killing her. Strip clubs owners have learned, much like bordello owners before them, that enforcement is nine-tenths of the law.
sol_de_pr2
07-31-2005, 08:35 AM
solicitation of a beverage is asking a patron to buy a drink for you. and, yes, it is as stupid as it seems.Ha, last night I was at a club where dancers make their money off drinks and they'll lap dance you at the bar. Guess some undercover cop would've busted me and her right then and there.
WiseGuy_TX
07-31-2005, 09:35 AM
Wow, i ran out of popcorn reading this thread. It's a good read though. I guess all the Pasco County high school quarterbacks will be hiking the ball in shotgun formation from now on.
Tigerlilly
07-31-2005, 09:54 AM
A couple of questions for the local area dancers, if I may...
So in that county in FL it is illegal to have any exposure in a place that serves booze ?
Basicaly only bikini dancing is allowed ?
And due to a new law all contact dancing is illegal too?
Am I understanding this correct ?
Mr Hyde
07-31-2005, 10:07 AM
Big Green, again, you don't know what you're talking about.
1-The 6 foot rule that is ignored in Tampa doesn't apply to Pasco clubs. They are in different areas and the laws are different.
2-These are not "high mileage, extras" clubs. I wouldn't call them fringe clubs either. I've never been in these places but I've driven by them. They look like your average, run of the mill semi-suburban SCs. The girls in these clubs were giving your standard, garden variety lap dances. As they are described in the police reports, I've witnessed ten times as much mileage at Mons and other places, especially in So Fla (Tootsie's is a prime example in Miami).
3-These raids are a scare tactic meant to satisfy bible thumping old biddies. If you're cool with that, and think this is just a way to thin out the herd so big chains can dominate and drive what you perceive as crappy clubs out of the biz, then be prepared for the chains to be targeted next.