View Full Version : 5 Tampa area clubs raided
Pretty_Penny
08-06-2005, 12:33 PM
like i said earlier, i have no problem with the clubs that allow prostitution being shut down and the offending parties being arrested, but what many people seem to have lost site of is that they are targeting -everyone- because the tampa bay area governments are on a crusade to shut down -all- strip clubs. i work in a no extras bikini bar and even i'm worried. solicitation of alcohol can even mean SUGGESTING that someone by you a drink. i accidently say things like "i love (whatever drink the guy is having)" or "i'm thirsty" all the time and i'm not even trying to suggest that they buy me a drink, but if they were an undercover cop and took it to mean so, i could be arrested.
doc-catfish
08-06-2005, 12:36 PM
The ironic thing is this doesnt happen at the upscale or true gentlemans clubs.
Oh Bullshit!! The last time I was in Dallas, I was in one of those "true gentlemen's clubs", looking a simple lap dance, and one gal that I spoke with (who was a solid 9 BTW) told me about the VIP booths in the back where it was $100 to enter, and after that it was "whatever I wanted". Now what do you suppose she meant by that?
Its always at the rinky dinky, nasty dive by tyhe airports or industrial areas or near military bases.
Sometimes, but sometimes, its the nice gentlemen's clubs. In your neck of the woods, the latter is esspecially true.
I dont think we need less enforcement. We need more, first by the girls who are clean, then by management and as a last resort the police and law enforcement people.
Yes, but as far as the law enforcement people go, there are no "clean girls". You're all harlots as far as they're concerned (at least when they're on duty).
The industry is strong when we work together to class up the clubs.
The industry also runs on money. Class doesn't neccesarily translate into money. If you're selling oranges, and the people who come into your club want apples, then you don't have to sell them apples. But you probably won't sell them any oranges, even if they're really nice oranges inside of a pretty fruit crate.
I just think we as a whole need to do more to expose the extras girls and get them out of the business or back on the street where they belong.
Well then, do it. But if its such a winner of an idea, why hasn't it been done already? I'm guessing the club owners found that it wasn't exactly profitable.
I look at the pics of the girls who were busted. I doubt any of them would make money in the clubs Ive worked at. Its usually the 5's and 6's who do the extras. The girls who are slightly cute but not hot.
Just can't get past this "looks" issue, can you? What do their damn pictures have to do with what they're being charged with? It's like you're somehow offended by the fact that a gal who you perceive to be uglier than yourself can sell a lapdance. Have you possibly considered some guys prefer to buy from a less attractive dancer, because the 9's and 10's at a given club strut around the club with their noses up in the air? It isn't always about mileage.
Its time to go upscale. Clubs that have invested millions into the decor, into restaurants, humidors etc have fewer problems than the rinky dinky, guy who owned a bar and needed to make more money so he made a stripclub out of his little tavern type.
They've invested millions into a facade that covers up the very same illicit activity that you suggest goes on at the dives. Also the upscale places usually have those aforementioned "back rooms" whereas the dives usually don't. But that little truth doesn't capice well with your master plan to relegate a night at the SC to the uber rich, or whatever you define as "classy", now does it?
And I believe you can still have morals and be a stripper, hell you can still do lapdances. Im a republican and I am a strong christian. So yes you can be moral and still do this.
Well I'm sure Jessica Simpson can spread herself over the hood of the General Lee and wash it in a bikini and still be moral, but a lot of "strong Christians" are rather outraged by her doing it.
So can we count you to blow your anonymonity and testify this on the "clean dancers" behalf, next time a local ordinance or state law is proposed that would shut your club down, or make the rules there so restrictive, that you could no longer make money? (at least not within the bounds of the rules). Maybe the "strong Christians" would be more understanding if they knew they were hurting one of their own.
evan_essence
08-06-2005, 12:39 PM
And I believe you can still have morals and be a stripper, hell you can still do lapdances. Im a republican and I am a strong christian. So yes you can be moral and still do this.I don't think you get it. Lap dances, those where you touch or brush against the customer's genitals, even briefly, even if only through his pants, are illegal, defined by the law as prostitution. If you are doing those lap dances, you are violating the law. (And by definition, some would say if you're performing prostitution, you're a prostitute.)
Have you done lap dances in which you touched your customer's genitals, albeit briefly, while he remained clothed? Do you continue to do so? If so, you're just as likely and eligible to be busted as the girls in Florida were. If you have, I can only surmise by your posts that you do not understand what you're talking about. Are you only doing air dances, or are you under the mistaken assumption that your lap dance contact is not defined as prostitution by your state law?
See http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.009.00.000043.00.htm and note that brushing against a customer's gentials during a lap dance meets the definition of sexual contact.
-Ev
prrfektwurld
08-06-2005, 12:52 PM
I'm really sick of AmyLynne continually bringing up the attractiveness of dancers. It's really frustrating. I've seen some "5s and 6s" in clubs who gave a killer stage shows and some "9s and 10s" who thought that being pretty was enough. It's not really about how good you look but how confident you are.
And as for raids, they happen everywhere. According to the law, what happens in an "upscale" club is just as illegal as a dive.
And as for prostitution. Jesus. I want to move to a country where prostitution is legal because I really think that it's stupid that it's illegal. It forces women into extremely dangerous situations.
But then again, I think our entire country has a pole up its collective ass when it comes to open sexuality.
amylynnej
08-06-2005, 04:45 PM
The ironic thing is most of the girls who I know do extras make like half of what I make not doing them. Ive been averaging 7-8k a month working 3 nights and I know girls who I work around who are lucky to see that working 5-6 nights a week.
And no I will not go near a custy's genitals even though clothed. I do grind but I also do not get stupid trying to make extra money by the methods many girls here have talked about.
Amy Lynne, I know you mean well. But somehow you feel, or were raised to believe, that being upscale, ritzy, or high class is synonymous with being honest and above board.
I worked in Texas clubs. Texas has some of the most posh clubs in the country. And the posh clubs are the ones that have the bj's, hj's, and full service going on. The smaller clubs and juice bars are NOT popular for extras.
Amy Lynne, we have to look at the REASON extras go on in clubs. The dancers are NOT the reason.
Number 1, girls wouldn't be offering them if guys didn't WANT them.
Guys WANT sex with girls whom they are attracted to. This has been reality for years and years.
Economic conditions alongside guys wants contribute to the extras.
Let's look at the religious lobbyists who are using their money and morality to run the clubs out of business.
In Dallas starting in May of 2000 girls were being busted right and left when the politicians of that city succumed to the pressure and began having vice hit clubs many of them 2-4 times a week in raids. The dancers fled Dallas and many are in Austin, which is more liberal. But in more liberal Austin less sexual acts are going on in clubs than Dallas or Houston.
Austin became flooded with girls. There are only so many customers, and the income potential gets spread thin. Guys know this too and because money is tight, girls who would have said no to extras in normal times, need to eat, and see doing them as a means of survival.
This has happened all over the country. As laws get tighter, the money gets cut down for dancers, because the laws are all aimed at making lap dancing illegal. Virtually all of our money comes from lap dancing, so how do we make money as dancers?
Not one law is geared at protecting lap dances and thus our incomes. So any dance we do is illegal. It is the same charge as having sex with a customer in many cities. If that is the case, the clubs just "pretend" they don't know what is going on.
Extras bring in customers. And the larger clubs as was posted above have a large variety of girls and lots of secluded areas "aka" VIP rooms, and dark corners.
The smaller clubs don't have this, plus they don't have the financial resources to fight the city that the big clubs have so the smaller clubs have to be more careful.
I work bookings in small towns in small clubs in the Upper Midwest and Montana and have for the last 3 years. There are NO sexual acts going on in those clubs. And there are a lot more dancers in the 6-8 category there than in the major cities, so it is not fair to say that if a girl is NOT beautiful, then she is a whore.
Amy Lynne, as far as being a Republican and a Christian you are traveling troubled waters. Are you of that party because of the way you were raised, or was it a choice you made as an adult?
The Republican party is dominated by Christian Conservatives, and they would surely see you as a misguided sinner if they knew what you do for a living. The Christian Conservative are using the Republican Party to make illegal ANYTHING of a sexual nature. Because you are not jacking guys off and giving blow jobs in the club doesn't make you a saint in their eyes. These people ONLY promote abstinence for sexual education, don't believe in teaching safe sex, and feel sex is only for procreation purposes, not recreation.
As for having the police in the clubs more, you probably want to retract that statement. If that happens which could happen again at any time in Dallas, you have a very high likelihood of going to jail JUST for doing a dance. Every $20 dance we do in Dallas and Houston is illegal because there is a 3 foot rule as law on the books.
How many dances would you sell Amy Lynne, 3 feet away from a customer? You wouln't even get your payout back, would you?
Guys want more nowadays. This business is more competitive, with way more girls dancing in the big city clubs than there used to be in the late 90's. Plus guys don't have access to expense accounts to pay for strip club outings as they did in the 90's, so they want more for their money than when they were spending company funds.
Big "classier" clubs have a lot of overhead and attorney's fees they pay just to stay open. Not to mention bribe money to the cops to minimize busts. These clubs let extras go on because it keeps the customers coming in. If a major department store stopped carrying your favorite designers, wouldyou keep shopping there? Of course not.
If these clubs stop allwoing extras to go on and the competition has them they will lose customers, won't they. Dallas clubs are not as profitable now as they were in the 90's because the police raids scared off a lot of customers.
In reality, over the next few years guys will be less willing to buy dances anywhere if getting off is not involved.
So Amy Lynne, don't be so quick to think that everyone who is not a 9 or 10, and everything that is not "associated with money" is bad. And the political party and religious faith you were brought up with will never support you or anyone else associated with the adult industry. Take a good hard look at the anti strip club legislation over the last 5 years. Some of it is from the Democratic side but only a small amount. The Republicans are behind 90% of it.
Guys want sex, and the more guys who want it, the more available it will become. The big classier clubs are the clubs where the guys with money go for sex both in and out of the club. And many a 9 and 10 dancer obliges them both in AND out of the club. The clubs you are talking about by the railroad tracks don't attract the volume and money to offer extras.
I just hope you will not automatically associate everything that is good with the rich and everything that is bad with the poor.
If you were to work at a smaller club, I bet you would find that the level of extras is almost nonexistant.
laplover69
08-06-2005, 05:48 PM
Prostitution laws certainly are subject to interpretation as it is often hard to prove "intent"; these laws also vary widely in definition & enforcement throughout different states. Really what this all boils down to is that dancers have different degrees of what they are comfortable doing for a living, as some are comfortable with "extras" and some are not. Sometimes it is unfortunate that most dancers whether you work at an "upscale club" or a dive or provide extras or don't are stereotyped as a whole. What I would like to see is the acceptance that every dancer and customer is UNIQUE and their moral values of what is appropriate behavior be decided by THEMSELVES instead of some STATE sanctioned moral taliban code that criminalizes the very unique nature of our species. I don't subscribe to the ideology of "CREEPING FASCISM" which appears is whats happening here.
amylynnej
08-07-2005, 10:59 AM
I didnt want to turn this into a bitchfest but I do have a right to my opinions and yes I do think these raids are necessary. If you dont do anything illegal you have nothing to worry about. I think we all need to work harder to get girls like the ones in Tampa out of the business.
It makes all of us look bad. And the custys arent going to go away. The ones that want sex may but then theyre usually not the greatest custys anyway. Theyre usually cheap and want everything for less. Look at all of the stories about guys who brag about getting sex for 100 bucks etc.
You get rid of the trash, you get the flowers.
Bunny
08-07-2005, 11:13 AM
And as for prostitution. Jesus. I want to move to a country where prostitution is legal because I really think that it's stupid that it's illegal. It forces women into extremely dangerous situations.
I totally agree.
As far as dancing in Tampa, you can get arrested for not doing extras but just giving a lap dance. There is a 6 foot rule. Who in the hell gets a lap dance 6 feet from the dancer? So EVERYBODY breaks the law when they give dances in Tampa. I think it would be great if there were no girls giving hj's, bj's, etc. to compete with but arresting girls for just lap dancing is like just arresting them for doing their job.
laplover69
08-07-2005, 03:29 PM
I totally agree.
As far as dancing in Tampa, you can get arrested for not doing extras but just giving a lap dance. There is a 6 foot rule. Who in the hell gets a lap dance 6 feet from the dancer? So EVERYBODY breaks the law when they give dances in Tampa. I think it would be great if there were no girls giving hj's, bj's, etc. to compete with but arresting girls for just lap dancing is like just arresting them for doing their job.
Correction there IS NO 6 FOOT RULE IN TAMPA. There was for a brief while a few years back, but it was repealed... I fail to understand some of these religous fanatics/lawmakers pressing for laws that have absoluely no effect on there lives. It's like saying I'm a Catholic, and if you don't agree with my moral agenda we will make laws to criminilize your unique moral beliefs... Cuz if ya aint Catholic you must be "harming" someone. Ridiculous
tampafldancer
08-07-2005, 04:21 PM
That maybe why I never have to hustle anymore and I still make what I do. Because Im nothing special.
I didnt want to turn this into a bitchfest but I do have a right to my opinions and yes I do think these raids are necessary. If you dont do anything illegal you have nothing to worry about. I think we all need to work harder to get girls like the ones in Tampa out of the business.
It makes all of us look bad. And the custys arent going to go away. The ones that want sex may but then theyre usually not the greatest custys anyway. Theyre usually cheap and want everything for less. Look at all of the stories about guys who brag about getting sex for 100 bucks etc.
You get rid of the trash, you get the flowers.
A lot of dancers make what you make and more. This has nothing to do with your opinions on the Tampa clubs. It has to do with your crass attitude and the way you come across.
Bunny
08-07-2005, 06:34 PM
Correction there IS NO 6 FOOT RULE IN TAMPA. There was for a brief while a few years back, but it was repealed
Are you sure? I could almost swear that a couple months ago a criminal defense attorney told me that yes, there was still a 6 foot rule.
laplover69
08-07-2005, 06:58 PM
Well if something has changed in the past couple of months I wasn't aware of it. The only new law that effects the ENTIRE state of Florida is the law that gives Police Officers the authority and right to be an "offended party" regardless if they are partaking in a lap dance and to cite what they deem and see as "lewd acts/behavior. Nothing is mentioned in this law about 6 foot distance requirements.
Tigerlilly
08-07-2005, 09:46 PM
And I believe you can still have morals and be a stripper, hell you can still do lapdances. Im a republican and I am a strong christian. So yes you can be moral and still do this.
I agree that people can still be moral folks and be lap dancers but I really had to laugh at the second half because some of the most immoral people I have ever come across have been republican and so called christians.
Correction there IS NO 6 FOOT RULE IN TAMPA. There was for a brief while a few years back, but it was repealed...
the 6 foot law in Tampa is still on the books. Only one judge on a panel of several said it was the crap that it is but he was out voted and the law stands.
However that law doesn't apply to Pasco County. Tampa is Hillsborough County. Pasco has it's own laws and ofcourse the state ones too.
oldenchild
08-08-2005, 12:36 PM
Nice herpes on the lip of # 11
Melonie
08-08-2005, 01:16 PM
"I'm really sick of AmyLynne continually bringing up the attractiveness of dancers. It's really frustrating. I've seen some "5s and 6s" in clubs who gave a killer stage shows and some "9s and 10s" who thought that being pretty was enough. It's not really about how good you look but how confident you are."
Well, AmyLynne does have a point as it applies to HER - the point being that she is one of those girls who are '9's and '10's and will thus always be able to work in the top shelf 'show clubs'. If a bible thumping city council, an overzealous DA, and nightly excursions by undercover cops DO wind up 'cleaning up the act' re local strip clubs, the ONLY clubs which will still have a viable product to market will be the 20% or so which are top shelf 'show clubs'. Along with that, 80% of clubs in the 'middle of the road' and 'sleaze factory' categories will probably wind up going bankrupt. Thus the dancing skills, personality, or base of regulars, or any other factors concerning dancers who are 6's or 7's or 8's won't matter for one microsecond, for the simple reason that top shelf 'show club' owners are never going to let these girls anywhere near their club's stage as long as there are enough '9's and '10's available to fill the club schedule !
Final analysis ... AmyLynne is right that strict anti-dance club laws and strict enforcement would actually benefit her own personal situation - at the expense of eliminating 80% of competing clubs and 80% of competing dancers.
laplover69
08-08-2005, 01:17 PM
Originally Posted by laplover69
Correction there IS NO 6 FOOT RULE IN TAMPA. There was for a brief while a few years back, but it was repealed...
the 6 foot law in Tampa is still on the books. Only one judge on a panel of several said it was the crap that it is but he was out voted and the law stands.
However that law doesn't apply to Pasco County. Tampa is Hillsborough County. Pasco has it's own laws and ofcourse the state ones too.
Talked with an attorney friend of mine and the 6 foot law is technically still on the books in Tampa, however it is a petty misdemeanor (equal to walking a dog w/o a leash. Therefore nothing is on a permanent record if you happen to get cited...Just a small fine which I'm sure some club owners would pay. Iwould be interested to hear if anyone has been cited for a violation of the 6 foor rule?? Seems more likely to me that some dancers run a greater risk of being in violation of the new law regarding "lewd acts' as it is VERY VAGUE and subject to an officers interpretation.
Tigerlilly
08-08-2005, 03:46 PM
Now you got it ! I believe the fine is $100 plus court costs and yes many of the club owners are willing and do pay for it.
The dancers who were under that one judges docket did get their cases dropped though. Sadly many more dancers ( and some customers too) were convicted.
Luke Luriot copped a plea on most of the cases (w/ a few exceptions of people who refused the deal ) and alot of the first time offenders were dismissed with a warning. Those who were on their 2nd or more arrest were not so lucky.
How do I know all of this ? Well I was one of the dancers caught up in a raid, though I was charged with exposure not violating contact/distance laws. And for AmyLynn- I was arrested at a no contact upscale 5 star menu club. And yes I have worked in other "top" clubs including Scores and The Mens Club. So it isn't just so called "lower" level dancers or clubs that these things happen in.
evan_essence
08-09-2005, 06:03 AM
If a bible thumping city council, an overzealous DA, and nightly excursions by undercover cops DO wind up 'cleaning up the act' re local strip clubs, the ONLY clubs which will still have a viable product to market will be the 20% or so which are top shelf 'show clubs'.Just to be clear, because there are so many different variables of what constitutes the definition of a certain type of club, can you specify exactly what the business model would be at the type of club you envision surviving? In terms of what the girls do and do not do to make their money in the club.
I ask for clarification mainly because I'm not convinced that the bible thumpers are going to be satisfied with even that, but I want to know exactly what that we're talking about.
-Ev
BigGreenMnM
08-09-2005, 06:34 AM
"Final analysis ... AmyLynne is right that strict anti-dance club laws and strict enforcement would actually benefit her own personal situation - at the expense of eliminating 80% of competing clubs and 80% of competing dancers.
And I agree with amy,we need to shed 80% of the clubs and dancers currently in this business.
My vote,we can start with the lineup of girls pictured,most should not be in this industry,period.
They are only here to do exactly what caused all these raids to begin with.
Its easy to blame the Bible thumpers,when in reality,its the girls suckin dick in the vip room and the custies looking for it that are the true cause.
doc-catfish
08-09-2005, 09:58 AM
And I agree with amy,we need to shed 80% of the clubs and dancers currently in this business.
My vote,we can start with the lineup of girls pictured,most should not be in this industry,period.
They are only here to do exactly what caused all these raids to begin with.
[quote]Its easy to blame the Bible thumpers,when in reality,its the girls suckin dick in the vip room and the custies looking for it that are the true cause.
No it isn't, because the Bible thumpers see absolutely zero distinction between a prostitute and a so-called "clean" dancer.
Go read the Houston thread in CC again. According to TXShooter's comments, prior to the 3 foot rule being in effect things were considerably cleaner inside of the clubs because with a commerically viable service like lap dances being legal, dancers had less incentive to turn tricks. Once they became illegal, they risked the same amount of prosecution by doing a $20 lap dance or a $100 blowjob.
I also have to say this 20:80 proportion of clean to scuzzy clubs doesn't exist in many locales. Around here like many rural parts of the country, its more like 5:95. We don't have that many "top shelf" dancers because those dancers know they can make better money for less mileage elsewhere. However, those second tier girls (the 6's 7's and 8's that some here think should be kicked out of the industry), can have a viable dancing career in these less lucrative markets, without resorting to extras I might add.
BigGreenMnM
08-09-2005, 10:20 AM
No it isn't, because the Bible thumpers see absolutely zero distinction between a prostitute and a so-called "clean" dancer.
I agree,for the hard core bible thumpers,nothing is going to change thier opinion,its the mainstream public that is important.
We have to be exceptable in this new world of hbo series on stripping,pole dancing exercise classes,and an overall exceptance of nude dancing.
This industry has to be exceptable for wives and females,a vip room thats nothing short of a jack shack just isnt going to work anymore.
Ok look what your saying here,it just doesnt add up imo and i have a hard time following it.
We don't have that many "top shelf" dancers because those dancers know they can make better money for less mileage elsewhere. However, those second tier girls (the 6's 7's and 8's that some here think should be kicked out of the industry), can have a viable dancing career in these less lucrative markets, without resorting to extras I might add.
Your saying the top girls have left because of the extras.
Then you say the 6-8's can make money there without doing the same extras you say are going on?
The 9-10's left because the 6-8's were doing extras.
Melonie
08-09-2005, 10:23 AM
Just to be clear, because there are so many different variables of what constitutes the definition of a certain type of club, can you specify exactly what the business model would be at the type of club you envision surviving? In terms of what the girls do and do not do to make their money in the club.
Under very strict anti-dance club ordinances, the 'legal' club business model which will survive would be targeted towards businessmen, professional men, tourists etc. It would involve zero contact. It involves spectacularly beautiful girls displaying their 'eye candy' on stage, and 'selling' their time, attention and personality to customers - often accompanied by quality food and drink sales by the club.
Under very strict anti-dance club ordinances, the 'illegal' club business model can basically include anything and everything ... motivated by the fact that the legal penalties/consequences of being busted for violating the ordinance is usually no worse than being busted for acts of prostitution.
I also have to say this 20:80 proportion of clean to scuzzy clubs doesn't exist in many locales. Around here like many rural parts of the country, its more like 5:95. We don't have that many "top shelf" dancers because those dancers know they can make better money for less mileage elsewhere.
Well, obviously, a particular city needs to have enough 'critical mass' of potential high end 'show club' customers i.e. businessmen & tourists, to provide a sufficient cash flow through the front door of the club to attract and sustain spectacular looking dancers interest in working at that club. If the 'eye candy' factor of available dancers drops significantly, the high end 'show club' image quickly becomes economically unsustainable. Thus most high end 'show clubs' are only sustainable when they're located in major cities. Once one moves out to the 'sticks', the show club business model is completely unsustainable, and any clubs able to stay in business in rural areas are almost entirely dependent upon 'less than top shelf' dancers 'bending' the law on a nightly basis.
prrfektwurld
08-09-2005, 10:25 AM
Its easy to blame the Bible thumpers,when in reality,its the girls suckin dick in the vip room and the custies looking for it that are the true cause.
It's a vicious cycle.
Why are girls sucking dick in the VIP room? Because they can't make money doing just clean dances. Why? Because of the laws.
Why is sucking dick in the VIP room illegal and taboo anyway? Because of laws.
It's a cycle. You can't pull out one thing to separate it from another. It also has a lot to do with society and its double standards. In no other industry in the world can women make scads and scads more money than men than in the adult entertainment industry.
Melonie
08-09-2005, 10:34 AM
Welll, prrfekt, various countries in western Europe have left their 'puritanical' laws behind and have legalized prostitution. Curiously, the business model for these clubs has made a very distinct split ... some 20% of clubs becoming top shelf 'show clubs' (or more accurately hostess clubs). The girls able to be hired in these hostess clubs not only must have eye-popping physical attributes, but in many cases professional dance credentials are expected (i.e. ballet, legitimate stage). Of course the other 80% of clubs take advantage of legalized prostitution, and make no bones about offering sex on stage as entertainment and sex with club customers as the primary financial 'engine'. In terms of comparison with American clubs, the entire 'middle of the road' club business model has disappeared.
If this very distinct split were to happen in the USA, AmyLynne would still be able to work in a top shelf 'hostess club', you would be able to legally give blowjobs in a sex club, but some 3/4ths of all dancers currently working as dancers in 'middle of the road' clubs - more specifically girls who are '7's and '8's and even '9's and '10's with limited personalities/dancing skills - would be forced to perform sex for money or start looking for a new line of work. Based on Europe's experience, there is absolutely no reason to expect that legalizing sex for money in the USA wouldn't create a widespread customer expectation of receiving sex for money !
prrfektwurld
08-09-2005, 10:58 AM
I'm not really sure what your point is. I'm not trying to be rude or snotty, I guess I'm just not following how we moved from me objecting that 5s, 6s, 7s can do very well in SCs without giving extras to a discussion of legalized prostitution in Europe.
I wasn't discussing legalizing prostitution at all, but now that you've mentioned it, there is a distinct different between an entertainer and a prostitute. Maybe in certain European countries, that is more pronounced. But here, it seems that the law tries to make no distinction. You get raided and arrested even if you are clean.
It's just a war on women who work in the industry.
Hostess clubs in Europe also expect sex. Hostesses are required to perform extras. There's not some magical distinction that if you are gorgeous and have been classically trained in ballet, you won't be expected to give extras.
doc-catfish
08-09-2005, 04:01 PM
I agree,for the hard core bible thumpers,nothing is going to change thier opinion,its the mainstream public that is important.
We have to be exceptable in this new world of hbo series on stripping,pole dancing exercise classes,and an overall exceptance of nude dancing.
Well if nudity is so widely accepted by the general public, then why are so many ordinances aimed at outlawing it?
About six or so years ago the authorities in Lincoln, Nebraska, which already had a no contact ordinance (and strictly enforced), and already required dancers to wear full bottoms, decided that wasn't enough. Tthey passed a new ordinance requiring that dancers have their nipples covered.
There was no reports of lewd activity that preceded the ordinance being passed (and even if there were lewd activity, I'm not sure how they thought covering nipples would solve it), as the clubs there are pretty much stage only anyways. The city council members just needed a cheap and easy means of scoring brownie points with the Bible thumpers. So now, dancers in Lincoln have to wear latex over the nipples like they do a lot of other places.
This industry has to be exceptable for wives and females,a vip room thats nothing short of a jack shack just isnt going to work anymore. Agreed. I have no problem with outlawing private rooms, as there's nothing that I want in there anyway. But clubs (and dancers) would be out a lot of revenue were this to happen.
Ok look what your saying here,it just doesnt add up imo and i have a hard time following it.
Your saying the top girls have left because of the extras.
Then you say the 6-8's can make money there without doing the same extras you say are going on?
The 9-10's left because the 6-8's were doing extras.
No, I didn't say the top shelfers left because of extras, they left because there are better money opportunities at clubs in larger cities. No different than a kid in a small town moving to the big city to follow her dreams and find a good paying job, because there's little/zero opportunity at home.
In some cases, those big city clubs just happen to have less grindier dances. In almost every case, those clubs happen to have a larger and most affluent customer base. We had a stunningly hot female member (she hasn't posted in over a year but her pics are still in the gallery) that initially worked at one of the local clubs here. At her club in Kansas, dances are done in public and are medium mileage at best. She then moved out to Las Vegas, where there is actually higher mileage, not because she desired to work with dirtier girls, but because there was much greater income potential there than there was here. She in fact commented more than once in disgust about girls doing things out in Vegas that never went on back home.
____
One thing that I do want to make clear here. I am NOT advocating that the doors be thrown off. I am completely for drawing a firm line between activities that are allowed and those that aren't, and for strict enforcement (hopfully club-imposed enforcement) of that line. But there have to be enough activities on the allowed side of that line (like say LAP DANCES) to ensure most clubs and most dancers have the ability to make money.
I'm sorry, but I don't know of too many SC custys willing to drop triple digit sums of money on stage shows and 6 ft away air dances. If they don't like the tame entertainment being offered, they're going to stop coming in. That means no alcohol sales, no door cover, no money going to the dancers, and dancers eventually walking out the door to find greener pastures, even if they have to resort to giving higher mileage to get it. And the end of the day, its all about the Benjamins.
BUT........... if dancers could make decent earnings within a proper and fair set of rules where they could give lap dances without fear of being busted by vice, they would have less incentive to break those rules, and more incentive to rat out those who do. (And before anyone comments, yes, I'm fully aware the ugly realities of state and local politics are not going to allow such a thing to happen, at least not anytime soon).
:-\
Again Doc Catfish has this issue down to a T.
I have worked in all different types of clubs and now am in small town ones by choice. The extras ARE NOT going on in the majority of the smaller venues. There are a handful of small clubs in the Upper Midwest where the girls are known for after hours sex, Aberdeen SD for one, where lap dancing is illegal, so the only way girls can make money is out of the club.Just like was said above, strict laws create what is supposedly trying to be avoided.
The stereotyping that I'm seeing correlating extras and how gorgeous a dancers face and physical attributes are is very upsetting.
First off many so called 9's may do much better working in the towns I work at compared to the city clubs. Small town guys in rural America get lonely. They get excited when new pretty faces come to their local club each week. With 5-6 girls booked to work 6 nights a week, and different ones each Monday until the rotation starts again of girls who regularly rebook, guys find their favorites and many stay loyal to them for months and years. A recent booking in a town of 21,000 people netted me $3600 for the week. All the city girls are complaining about how slow summer is. The stereotype of no money being in rural areas is untrue.
The BIGGEST complaint I hear from these guys is that the younger girls don't talk to them and keep their distance. So the 6 or 7 who has a good personality, who exchanges phone #'s, and let's the guys know where she is booked each week, is the dancer these guys look forward to seeing every month, and some will drive for 2 hours or so to another small town club to see them, buying 5-10 or more dances on each visit.
The small town guys would LOVE to see some classy city girls come to town once a month who are humble and friendly, not nose up in the air afraid to keep in touch types, but many of these same girls suffer through unbearable nights of more girls than customers in the larger city clubs felling the money is better.
Many of these guys are not married and are lonely,but have money to spend several hundred in the club a couple of times a month.
Some of the less glamorous girls in these rural areas who are being called the perpetrators of extras because they are not 9's and 10's, could be advanced up the Score's scale to the 8+ range if they were more exposed to a city lifestyle and had a makeover. They are not ugly people, and they do not do extras in the club.
It is to be expected that some dancers who grew up in small towns would want to move on to the city where there is more to do. It is not necessarily that they move to dance in bigger clubs, as the intense competition and lack of a loyal customer base is hard on them. A big reason that they move is to be where there is more going on, more things to do. Can you blame them?
Being black and having experienced prejudice firsthand all my life, I am quick to defend people who are wrongly stereotyped.
I have a city look and am always well dressed and made up, so I am a unique black girl for the areas I work in. Plus I am responsible, never cancelling bookings and leaving the club shorthanded, so I do very well with a rural predominately white customer base, and many clubowners treat me well in the areas I work in.
The larger customer base in big cities as Doc Catfish eluded to is what allows those clubs to have all house girls. The city clubs don't get the same customers in all the time.
The rural clubs need fresh faces to keep the local customer base coming back. Thus some of the same customers frequent the clubs on a regular basis and spend money on their favorites at a higher rate, than in the major city club with lots of dancers to choose from.
One of our classy SW members worked at a couple small clubs and was making money hand over fist because of her looks and personality. Guys really enjoyed her and she banked.
My point is all of this stereotyping about extras girls and their looks is crap. MOST girls who are a little "plain" looking can have their appearance changed dramatically with a little help.
It's the guys who want sex. Don't be so quick in blaming the girls. If enough people are offering a chunk of money to someone who is broke, in exchange for getting them off, there WILL be some takers.
If these same girls could stay busy performing lap dances that were gratifying to the guys, and the type of dance that guys would want to pay for were available legally without sex involved, most of the "extras" girls would not be performing them, would they?
Big Green, you know good and well that who performs extras cannot be determined by outward appearances or looks, don't you? I agree that for a larger pecentage of conservative Americans to accept our business, sex needs to stop in the private areas, but there will be no customers to patronize clubs if they can't at least legally get one way contact lap dancing.
Amy Lynne, you really should stop knocking girls who are maybe a little overweight or plain looking. Many of those girls with some help can look great. Do you ever watch What Not to Wear on TLC? You're not going to be 23 forever. How would you feel if people stop giving you a chance? Of course you'll say you won't be dancing when you're older. One never knows what their future holds for them. And the older dancers usually have the largest established customer base because they aren't as standoffish to the guys. Guys like different body types. The clubs just need to coach these girls on how to look and push them to keep in shape.
Eventually politicians will deflect interest from adult businesses. The country has to get through this cycle of "The Bush Era", and more of the public needs to be made aware of how dangerous the Christian Conservatives are in office.
Once that happens, and once more of the younger liberal folks get a little older, raiding adult businesses will be history just like Prohibition.
For now those of us involved have to watch our P's and Q's and hopefully have enough money saved to move into another venture when stripping becomes harder to deal with.
PlaqueMaker
08-10-2005, 09:52 AM
another one was arrested for saying "im thirsty"
solicitation of alcohol? cause you say your thirsty??
She is only 19!
Besides - those places are dives. The Dollhouse is the only place to go in Tampa.
Melonie
08-10-2005, 10:21 AM
The stereotyping that I'm seeing correlating extras and how gorgeous a dancers face and physical attributes are is very upsetting.
Tina I entirely agree at the theoretical level. However, reality rears its ugly head in the form of top shelf low contact 'show club' owners and managers making hiring decisions re new dancers on the basis of physical attributes every single day. Thus a girl's ability to work in a club environment where high contact and 'extras' are the exception rather than the rule is entirely contingent on her ability to make the 'cut' and get hired by a top shelf 'show club'. In reality, any validity to the stereotype of girls who are '7's and '8's being more likely to be offering high contact and 'extras' is a result of the hiring decisions of clubowners, which typically relegates girls who are '7's and '8's to working in 'lesser' clubs where high contact and 'extras' are the norm rather than the exception.
It's the guys who want sex. Don't be so quick in blaming the girls. If enough people are offering a chunk of money to someone who is broke, in exchange for getting them off, there WILL be some takers.
If these same girls could stay busy performing lap dances that were gratifying to the guys, and the type of dance that guys would want to pay for were available legally without sex involved, most of the "extras" girls would not be performing them, would they?
Another point which is absolutely true in theory. Obviously no dancer whether a '7' or a '10' is willingly going to perform 'extras' unless a huge financial incentive is attached. But in the real world, a dancer who is a '10' has options to earn very good money without broaching the issue of extras ... given that top shelf 'show club' owners WILL provide the dancer who is a '10' with access to a customer base that is willing to spend major money without expecting major contact in return. On the other hand, in the real world the dancer who is a '7' will typically only be allowed access to a customer base who expects maximum 'bang for their buck'.
Granted every dancer has the option of moving to 'greener pastures' where contact expectations and/or customer spending habits are different. However, permanently moving to a different city/state or doing road trips on a regular basis requires additional sacrifices which many girls don't want to make or simply can't make. This reality is another difference affecting dancers who are '7's much more severely than dancers who are '10's.
Eventually politicians will deflect interest from adult businesses. The country has to get through this cycle of "The Bush Era", and more of the public needs to be made aware of how dangerous the Christian Conservatives are in office.
Once that happens, and once more of the younger liberal folks get a little older, raiding adult businesses will be history just like Prohibition.
Perhaps. However, the logical extension of the liberal position is the de-criminalization of prostitution. In European countries where this has happened, and in American cities where this has happened in actual practice if not in the letter of the law, the availability of 'extras' in clubs and the unwillingness of the customer base to spend big money in the absence of 'extras' becomes the new business model. This affects ALL dancers who choose not to offer 'extras'. However it definitely affects girls who are '7's and unwilling to offer 'extras' a great deal more than girls who are '10's and unwilling to offer 'extras' ... to the point of bankruptcy for the '7's when surrounded by girls who are '8's and '9's and also willing to offer 'extras' !
For a fact the ability of American dancers to sell a 'fantasy' to customers without being expected to actually deliver the 'goods' is a direct outgrowth of leftover 'Puritan Ethic'. It is arguable that the leftover 'Puritan Ethic' is higher in rural areas than in big cities ... which in combination with the absence of dancers who are '10's being willing to stick around in rural clubs explains the financial success in the absence of 'extras' for dancers who are 8's and 9's and willing to work in rural clubs.
evan_essence
08-10-2005, 02:02 PM
Perhaps. However, the logical extension of the liberal position is the de-criminalization of prostitution. In European countries where this has happened, and in American cities where this has happened in actual practice if not in the letter of the law, the availability of 'extras' in clubs and the unwillingness of the customer base to spend big money in the absence of 'extras' becomes the new business model.Ugh! Melonie, your manufacture of a "logical extension of the liberal position" is killing me. We're bordering on political poo here, but let's talk history closer to home.
All through the 90s, the Missouri legislature was controlled by Democrats (a mixture of conservative and liberal Democrats, but mostly liberal leadership). The governor's office alternated between the parties during that decade, but Dems had control of what legislation moved out of committee onto the floor for full debate and voting. It wasn't until the Republicans gained complete control of both houses and the governorship this year that the new 10-foot distance rule was passed. Thus, when liberals had control or partial control, no 10-foot rule. When conservatives went unchecked, 10-foot rule.
My forecast of the impact of the 10-foot rule echoes your viewpoint. The legal version: A very few show clubs that have no lap dancing. There will be only semi-nude stage shows and girls fully clothed selling their company. The sleazebo version: Dives where girls break the rules fully, not bend them, because full sex will be the only way to sell an allegedly clothed lap dance, and it'll pay for a criminal defense. (The forecast for me: Abandon ship.) Thus, when liberals were in control: middle-of-the-road clubs succeed in business. When conservatives went unchecked: middle-of-the-road clubs go out of business or turn sleazier.
So I advocate wiping out the latest conservative-controlled legislative session. I don't see how you can reach a conclusion that things would get worse under liberals, when it wasn't. No legislative liberal argued for decriminalization of strip clubs; they just discretely preserved the status quo and let the marketplace move what was offered without imposing ridiculous new restrictions.
-Ev
evan_essence
08-10-2005, 02:16 PM
The small town guys would LOVE to see some classy city girls come to town once a monthShhhhhh, that's supposed to stay a secret for the rest of us. Seriously though, you are so right and thank you for expounding on this point. The first time I saw a rural metal building that said "Gentleman's Club" with all the pickups in the parking lot, I thought, yeah, right, gentlemen. Well, shows you what I know when I stereotype. It actually was, thanks in large part to good management and a certain amount of engrained patron chivalry.
-Ev
Archangel
08-10-2005, 02:19 PM
Blah blah blah. Don't you realize that numbering girls is useless? One man's 10 is another man's 6. Diversity is the spice of life, people. Just because you personally think a girl is a 7 doesn't mean that everyone does.
Think about it. If you could classify women as numbers, those you put on the lower end would die unmarried virgins. How often does that happen? Don't even go the route stating that men can be classified as well and low numbers marry low numbers. You would just prove my point that numbering people is meaningless because obviously, your "3" man considers his "3" woman to be a "10" or close to it.
Some of the girls on here that consider themselves 9's and 10's are much, much lower in my book.
All this bullshit of rating people on a universal scale is arrogant and callow. It's a matter of personal preference and relativity.
IT ALSO HAS NO BEARING ON THE ORGINAL TOPIC OF THIS THREAD. >:(
I imagine that the current state of public opinion is approaching the levels seen just before prohibition was passed in 1919. I expect to see quite a few new regulations that seem quite peculiar. Remember that pohibition was in effect for 14 years before being overturned...
Melonie
08-10-2005, 04:42 PM
Some of the girls on here that consider themselves 9's and 10's are much, much lower in my book.
All this bullshit of rating people on a universal scale is arrogant and callow. It's a matter of personal preference and relativity.
IT ALSO HAS NO BEARING ON THE ORGINAL TOPIC OF THIS THREAD
The original topic of this thread was dancers being busted under the provisions of a newly enacted Florida state law which legalizes a new technique which can now be used in regard to enforcing existing Florida state prostitution and alcohol laws. This in and of itself places politics at the forefront of the situation. This also places the question of a particular dancer's ability to be hired into a club environment where full contact lap dances aren't allowed/necessary, versus dancers being forced to 'bend' the law in order to earn decent money, at the forefront of the situation. Forget about the Scores Scale numbers. The only 'rating' that matters is whatever criterion the low contact show club owners/managers employ to decide which dancers they will hire versus which dancers they won't hire !
Archangel
08-11-2005, 12:13 PM
Yes, politics and public opinion are what this thread is about. To be precise, their effects on municipal codes in Florida and the possibility of incremental changes of the types shown here spreading throughout the industry. It can even be expanded to the possible effects and causes of the changes being made.
The following is not directed at any one poster:
However, no amount of pseudo-legalese will negate your attempt to pigeonhole girls using appearance. The fact of the matter is that looks have no bearing on extras. It's completely up to the individual. They are not being forced to break the law any more than a person robbing gas stations or dealing drugs is "in order to earn decent money."
The owners/managers can't know which girls will perform extras before hiring. Not unless a polygraph is part of the audition, anyway.
Continuing this line of debate is nonsensical in this tread. If you, or anyone else, wish to continue arguing "looks" anyway, I suggest starting another thread.
michele1
08-11-2005, 01:54 PM
Melonie, you are forgeting that in the tampa bay area most of the 9s and 10s ( if there are even 10s in the business anymore havent really seen one in the top upscale clubs in years) work in full contact clubs. There is only 1 non contact club in the area and its the doll house and take it from someone who worked there and top clubs all across the country its nothing special you can see better looking girls at the contact clubs around the area.
Melonie
08-11-2005, 02:18 PM
Melonie, you are forgeting that in the tampa bay area most of the 9s and 10s ( if there are even 10s in the business anymore havent really seen one in the top upscale clubs in years) work in full contact clubs. There is only 1 non contact club in the area and its the doll house and take it from someone who worked there and top clubs all across the country its nothing special you can see better looking girls at the contact clubs around the area
No, I'm not forgetting ... I'm forecasting ! I'm forecasting that if/when Florida cops in many parts of the state start using the new enforcement technique, that girls in a wide variety of clubs and a wide variety of areas will be busted too. I'm then forecasting that once busted, and faced with the choice of risking a second bust and with it a non-expungable criminal record, that any girls who can possibly manage it will then try to head away from the full contact clubs towards the non-contact clubs. This is exactly what has happened in other areas where much tighter enforcement efforts have started.
However, during these 'early' days of the new enforcement technique, and given past history of high contact lap dances being both normal and expected in the vast majority of Florida clubs, that many Florida dancers will simply look at the Pasco county club busts as an 'isolated incident' which won't ever affect them. But trust me, based on experience in other areas, once a few more clubs in a few different areas are subjected to high publicity busts, the race to the non-contact show clubs will be on. It will be at this point that the non-contact show club owner/manager's standard for drawing a 'dotted line' in regard to girls the show clubs will hire versus girls the show clubs won't hire will make all the difference.
Deogol
08-11-2005, 02:38 PM
I agree,for the hard core bible thumpers,nothing is going to change thier opinion,its the mainstream public that is important.
We have to be exceptable in this new world of hbo series on stripping,pole dancing exercise classes,and an overall exceptance of nude dancing.
This industry has to be exceptable for wives and females,a vip room thats nothing short of a jack shack just isnt going to work anymore.
It is acceptable for the X, Y, and New generations. Unfortunately, most of them bitch on the internet and don't go to elections to vote. Most don't even know how the system works other than putting a mask on and holding a sign insulting some other viewpoint and then getting into a scrap with the police or opponents.
SW Siren
08-11-2005, 03:23 PM
Ok- I looked at the pics of the arrested dancers and while some of them weren't the most beautiful girls in the world others were quite cute.
Not to mention mug shots aren't going to be the best photos to begin with !
Also as I understand it, the no contact club in the Tampa area has also been raided in the past for costume violations so clearly no club or dancer is safe.
As for the comment about a "race to the non-contact show club" according to some FL dancers I know that already happened back in 1999-2001 when Hillsborough County enacted that 6 foot law.
Question , though for the local dancers and customers: Is Pasco County a mostly republican
or democratic district ? What about Hillsborough ?
Miss_Sierra
08-11-2005, 06:28 PM
Shhhhhh, that's supposed to stay a secret for the rest of us. Seriously though, you are so right and thank you for expounding on this point. The first time I saw a rural metal building that said "Gentleman's Club" with all the pickups in the parking lot, I thought, yeah, right, gentlemen. Well, shows you what I know when I stereotype. It actually was, thanks in large part to good management and a certain amount of engrained patron chivalry.
-Ev
You and Tina both nailed it! Thank you! :)
evan_essence
08-12-2005, 03:34 AM
Not to mention mug shots aren't going to be the best photos to begin with !I was going to bring that up but kept forgettin'. Yeah, you're right, even celebrities look like crap when cops take mugshots.
I was going to cite an example and discovered this site. Great, the Tampa girls are already posted. Archived forever, regardless of whether or not the charges are dropped or they're acquitted. (Some of them are under Criminal -> Prostitution.) Argh.
http://www.mugshots.com/
And what's with Smoking Gun posting those anyway? I thought it was supposed to be Smoking Gun, not "smalltime news that was handed out to everyone in a press release" Gun. I thought they dug for dirt and documents about things that aren't routinely covered by the mainstream media, not rehash what everyone else already has been given by the local prosecutor. Well, doesn't matter 'cause the photos would be on the Internet anyway, but I just don't see the big expose angle in this that I normally associate with Smoking Gun coverage.
-Ev
Melonie
08-12-2005, 03:51 AM
As for the comment about a "race to the non-contact show club" according to some FL dancers I know that already happened back in 1999-2001 when Hillsborough County enacted that 6 foot law.
Question , though for the local dancers and customers: Is Pasco County a mostly republican
or democratic district ? What about Hillsborough ?
If my recollection is correct, both of these counties are 'conservative' suburbs.
There is also another huge difference which apparently hasn't sunk in yet with most Florida dancers. The hillsborough county anti-dance club ordinance was only county-wide, meaning that dancers could go a few miles across another county line to avoid the effect of the ordinance. However, the new enforcement technique law (i.e. allowing undercover cops to be the complainant) applies state wide. State prostitution laws, which in and of themselves appear to define a full contact lap dance as an act of prostitution, apply state wide. Thus in order to avoid the 'jurisdiction' this time, it means crossing the state line into Alabama or Georgia. And Georgia won't be a huge help because any girls who were busted in Florida will be ineligible to obtain an Atlanta dancer's license.
In order to escape likely 'enforcement', this leaves getting hired in a no contact 'show club' where Florida prostitution laws won't actually be bent or broken, or working in a club in a large 'liberal' city like Miami where local residents, local politicians, and local cops are not going to devote attention to strip clubs because they have much bigger problems on their plate.
laplover69
08-12-2005, 05:07 AM
The problem with the new statewide law is that it is so VAGUE a TOPLESS AIR DANCE could be construed as a "lewd act" by a ultra-conservative Police Officer in one jurisdiction while a full service act be deemed ok by another officer in a different area. This law can't be universally enforced as it is subject to interpretation and what the officers Individual boundaries/definitions and comfort levels are.
Archangel
08-12-2005, 06:54 AM
Hillsborough isn't a suburb. Tampa resides in and covers most of the county. That would be like calling Miami-Dade county a suburb.
And if you read some of the posts about the "no contact" club (notice the singular noun) in Tampa... They are also being busted for non-contact related issues. They're the only club of the sort in the county and surrounding counties. That leaves what? Moving far away or finding a new line of work. At least until this blows over in a few years. History shows that it will indeed blow over eventually.
SW Siren
08-12-2005, 12:38 PM
The problem with the new statewide law is that it is so VAGUE a TOPLESS AIR DANCE could be construed as a "lewd act" by a ultra-conservative Police Officer in one jurisdiction while a full service act be deemed ok by another officer in a different area. This law can't be universally enforced as it is subject to interpretation and what the officers Individual boundaries/definitions and comfort levels are.
Good point.
I would expect that because of potential selective enforcement the law will be struck down. Not to mention that what constitutes "offended" is a matter of personal taste, rather than an absolute.
Is there a case yet about striking this law in FL ?
SW Siren
08-12-2005, 12:52 PM
If my recollection is correct, both of these counties are 'conservative' suburbs.
If you are indeed correct then that explains alot of why the local clubs there are being targeted.
Come to think of it, isn't that also the area of FL where the local government banned any and all expression of gay pride ?
Gosh, I feel sorry for the local residents there. Heck, next thing you know they will all be mandated by law to attend a conservative christian church eah Sunday or face jail time !
It's really too bad that the conservatives there are out to control everything and everyone according to their own personal belief system. Sometime I wonder if we even live in America anymore :-\
Personally I think if someone is offended by adult entertainment then they should just not enter an adult entertainment facility.
Seriously, whatever happened to freedom of choice anyway ?
laplover69
08-12-2005, 08:49 PM
In a way it is good that the statewide law was written so vague, as it leaves plenty of room for arguments and appeals if anyone is ever convicted in the first place. The laws that scare me are the ones the have very specific definitions. This whole subject is very similair to the movie "People vs. Larry Flynt" only were dealing with what is "lewd" instead of "obscene", and different degrees of what "community standards"are. Nobody could universally define "obscene", so it is unlikely we will be able to universally define "lewd acts"... Seems silly to even attempt this to me.
Melonie
08-13-2005, 09:44 AM
Silly or not, it still represents a new 'risk factors' for all Florida dancers. Granted, the 'risk factor' in a Miami club will undoubtedly be a lot lower than the 'risk factor' in a bible thumping suburb.
As to the appealability of the state prostitution law and the individual interpretations applied by undercover cops, you're probably right that this is ripe for appeals. However, the fact remains that first level appeals cost $5-10,000 and second level appeals can cost $50,000+, even if the appeal is successful. Thus the BIG question is the likelihood of clubowners or individual dancers to bankroll the filing of such appeals. Odds are extremely few dancers would do it, choosing instead to cop a plea and accept club financed legal representation. Odds are also low that any independent clubowner would do it, given the fact that the filing of the appeal would create massive negative local publicity thus more outrage from local bible thumpers thus more attention from undercover cops. It's also doubtful that the chain clubs would bankroll an appeal either, at least not until many competing independent clubs have been 'taken out of the game' via reduced profitability and rising legal expenses.
michele1
08-13-2005, 12:07 PM
Pasco county and hillsbourough and not big bible thumping comunities by any means. I think this is more of a way to raise money and for local politicians to make theirselves look good. Really though this happens everywere strip clubs are not excepted in any area really.
phonehome
08-13-2005, 01:13 PM
I have been reading this for a while, mostly because I used to live in Tampa, for the most part the sense is "oh these laws are unfair" "we don't like that they got changed or how" "they are selectiveley enforced".
That is all well and good but doesn't change the fact the laws are what they are and the girls know what they are or should know, and for whatever reason/reasons have chose not to follow them. In these circumstances you can't bitch about being busted for something that is against the law, you knew it and did it anyway.
An anology would be if there were a highway that the speed limit used to be 65, for whatever reason, Busy body soccer moms worried about there kids or what ever it gets lowered to 50, but for the most part everyone still goes 65 because rarely is there ever anyone out there enforcing the law. when every once in a while some cop comes out there and happens to clock you at 65 it is somehow there fault? I mean you were the one that knew it was 50 and decided to go 65 because you do it pretty much everyday and don't get a ticket. You knew you could get a ticket but chose to risk it anyway.
Whose fault is that this one time the risk didn't pay off.