PDA

View Full Version : I'm Horny and Lonely



Pages : 1 [2]

Richard_Head
08-01-2005, 04:04 PM
Richard I believe your head maybe be shoved to far up your ass to hear what I have to say ::) poor FBR I think he really wanted to hear what I was going to say, anyway Katrine knows what I am talking about why don't you ask her.All talk huh?

Jenny
08-01-2005, 04:19 PM
Some guys and girls just can't do this because they know (correctly) that they will be rejected 99 out of 100x based on the simple facts that their genetic features aren't very attractive, and they aren't wealthy or famous to compensate (wealth and/or fame can make up for a lot of physical unattractiveness when it comes to interesting the other sex).

So they often have to take the longer, sometimes less direct routes to interest the other sex in order to avoid the pain of the immediate outright rejection.
I just don't worry that much about rejection. I don't look at the guys that I have rejected and think "Oh my god. I can't believe that he thought HE could date someone like ME. He is so stupid and lame for liking me, I can't even believe it." I think "I don't think that is going to really work out. I'm really not very interested" and so I assume that is what other people think when they hypothetically reject me. But I do think I prefer the outright pain of rejection (such as it is - I mean it's not that painful) to carrying on like a junior high schooler for months on end. But that's me, and how I behave and the people I tend to like. You can like whoever you like.


People are funny because they are often not single minded about what they want. Sometimes they think they want one thing, while what they really want deep down doesn't always jive with what they think they want.
Not such a problem for me. What I think I want is pretty much what I want.


The very genetically attractive people can skip over the mystery and aloofness and get to the sex faster, but for those who are having to work at attracting the other sex, mystery and aloofness can be powerful ways of attracting the (longer term) interest of someone of the opposite sex.
Well, there you go. Like I said - the kind of person that you like. Not the kind of person that I like, but up to you. I am not attracted to mystery and aloofness, and people who like that will either not like me, or really bug the fucking hell out of me (like really, I'm sure you are nice, but I'm not interested. **No - I'm sure she is just being aloof. You know, to get me all riled up. She'll come around**) If someone doesn't act like they are interested in me, I assume that they are not interested in me - to me that seems perfectly normal, but to each her own.


Sometimes the other person isn't feigning disinterest, they are just looking for a bit more mystery themselves and would respond better themselves to the less direct approach.
Hey - if it works for you. Like I said - not for me.


p.s. How was vacation?
It had mixed results. I have funny spots of sunburn about the size of loonies where my sunblock wasn't properly applied, and I suspect it is only going to get worse when it fades to tan - I'm just going to have brown spots on a milk white body. I am going to look diseased. And my sister and I had our fun playing with our wee 13 year old cousin and her little school friend. And there were goats. Pretty goats.


You're right. If I'm interested, I will say it, I don't play the game. BUT, if he hasn't called me back or whatehaveyou, I have no choice but to wait it out. I guess by now I should know that if they aren't interested, they won't call back. But they always seem to come around in the end....for sex. >:( Oh, little kitty kat. Far, far be it for me to judge you or your relationships or how you conduct them. I've never even met you. That being said, little camper - fuck it. You can't control other people, even guys, vagina or no (the common wisdom of pussy power notwithstanding). Just focus on what you want, baby, because the rest just happens around you anyway.

Katrine
08-01-2005, 04:32 PM
Richard I believe your head maybe be shoved to far up your ass to hear what I have to say ::) poor FBR I think he really wanted to hear what I was going to say, anyway Katrine knows what I am talking about why don't you ask her.

Q:How many ADHD kids does it take to screw in a lightbulb???
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
A: Let's go ride bikes!!!!!
:P

Katrine
08-01-2005, 04:45 PM
Oh, I love looking too. Nevertheless I find myself often bored with the people behind the pretty faces. Blah blah same old stuff. There is something to be said for someone who comes across as mysterious or alloof and not interested. It's a challenge and that makes it more interesting. BTW, that's one of the reasons why when I go to a club I don't buy dances when I first walk in ;) I'm turned on by the visuals, but once I've had a couple drinks and unwound for an hour, the initial reaction to the skin is over I'm much more clear headed and the T&A is much more clearly just that, tits and ass.

You're a guy, women are the primpers of the species. You have so many more options to see attractive, yet vapid female specimins. Anywho, physical beauty is not what makes someone sexy. That's primarily a male motivator. No judgement, I'm just working with very basic biological principle here. For me and most women, the aphrodisiac is a cocktail of traits, and we often know that from the beginning, so we don't have to worry about being bored but at least we're hanging out and possibly fucking a really hot chick dude!




I meant to convey they are more likely to have the option to skip over some of that. Whether or not they do is another matter. Of course there are plenty of attractive people that don't skip the mystery and build-up. It's just more difficult for an unattractive person to skip ahead to the sex part because they get less offers to do so.

In a university psychological study, random students walking were asked to rate fellow students on an attractiveness scale, personality scale, and compatibility scale. Then, once again they were randomly set up on dates with one another. The ONLY factor that contributed to one part of the arbitrary couple wanting to see the other member of the pair again was ATTRACTIVENESS! That's it. It didn't matter if it was the female or the male. It made no difference if one partner chose a Personality and Compatibility 10 for the other. The person who perceived their selected mate more attractive desired the second date. If the other person found their date less attractive on the same scale, they were proportionally less likely to want a second date.

Discuss.



But yea, to some great degree women still do control who gets to have sex. That may change in time. You may well see that women become more like guys in this regard as society changes. When it comes to the girls being "easy", I guess I figure guys and girls are becoming increasingly alike in this regard. Society still looks down more on girls then guys who are "easy", but I think that's changing and another generation or two I suspect (for the most part) most of us won't think be thinking in terms of the girl vs guy being easy. People might still turn down their noses on "easy" people just because they are more likely to end with a disease, or to end up with unwanted children, or to maybe they make flakey long-term partners? but not so much because they are male or female. Maybe not. Time will tell on that.

There's a good biological reason to look down upon promiscous women. BUT, technology has alleviated much of the threat to our bodies. Our reptile brains just havn't caught up.

I live in a subculture. I am already considered a slut, a whore, a harlot. There is no point in acting "coy" and shy when I am pre-judged. I am more like a man sexually, always have been in some ways. This doesn't mean I have always been promiscous. I was a late bloomer, but boy did I blossom. }:D

mr_punk
08-01-2005, 04:50 PM
Like I would just assume that a guy is ACTUALLY disinterested, then buck up and move on.well, you don't act completely disinterested. otherwise, you're right. she's going to move on. the key is to send her a mixed messages by expressing just enough interest to keep her on a string, but without being explicit (or honest for that matter) or acting all hard-up and slobbery like an ex-con fresh out the pen.

You're right. If I'm interested, I will say it, I don't play the game. BUT, if he hasn't called me back or whatehaveyou, I have no choice but to wait it out.case in point.

I guess by now I should know that if they aren't interested, they won't call back. But they always seem to come around in the end....for sex.true...i always ended up making booty calls and they worked. of course, not all of the time, but well enough for me not to change my ways.

Sometimes the disinterest isn't feigned. After we have seen a zillion good looking women (or men) it can get a bit old and repetative. Like okay, she (or he) is fuckable but so are a zillion other women (or men). Yawn. One can be interested in the sex but entirely bored with the person.sure, sometimes you just want to hit-n-run without a lot of complications. however, it isn't necessarily because the other person is boring, but as you say. there are a zillion other women out there. women aren't stupid. more often than not, they know a manwhore when they meet him, but like i said. women like a challenge as well as men.

I think that this statement says more about you and the kind of girls you like than anything else.LOL....what were you expecting...emotional availability?? well, you can feign that too. look, i'll be the first to admit it's rakish behavior, but women play their part in this game. otherwise, men couldn't get away with it.

xdamage
08-01-2005, 05:55 PM
[clipped out some good stuff, and agree]

There's a good biological reason to look down upon promiscous women. BUT, technology has alleviated much of the threat to our bodies. Our reptile brains just havn't caught up.



Ah very good ;) A lot of people don't know that, or don't want to believe it, that there are some good biological reasons why promiscuity in females is looked down on more strongly than on males. Like you said, technology has or is changing that, but yes, our brains haven't caught up.

FatBoy
08-01-2005, 10:13 PM
Richard I believe your head maybe be shoved to far up your ass to hear what I have to say ::) poor FBR I think he really wanted to hear what I was going to say, anyway Katrine knows what I am talking about why don't you ask her.



It was a fair question. No reason to answer it if you don't want to. But there's no need to get personal.

I wasn't responding to Richard's question at all just the play along part is what my response was about I thought he was being sarcastic so I was being sarcastic back thats why I put a ::) symbol if you feel I was personal attacking Richard you wrong whoever you maybe and Richard if you think I personal attacked you I apologize.

FatBoy
08-01-2005, 10:37 PM
All talk huh?

No Richard I am not all talk my lack of response was because how I felt about
your play along comment that's all, I felt like you where being disrespectful
if you where not being disrespectful then again I apologize.

FatBoy
08-01-2005, 11:06 PM
Q:How many ADHD kids does it take to screw in a lightbulb???
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
A: Let's go ride bikes!!!!!
:P

I don't know if I should :D or :'( I am so sorry I didn't take my drugs and couldn't follow along with the rest of the group thank you for your patience
can we really ride bikes together that would be so much fun, Lmao

xdamage
08-02-2005, 05:20 AM
In a university psychological study, random students walking were asked to rate fellow students on an attractiveness scale, personality scale, and compatibility scale. Then, once again they were randomly set up on dates with one another. The ONLY factor that contributed to one part of the arbitrary couple wanting to see the other member of the pair again was ATTRACTIVENESS! That's it. It didn't matter if it was the female or the male. It made no difference if one partner chose a Personality and Compatibility 10 for the other. The person who perceived their selected mate more attractive desired the second date. If the other person found their date less attractive on the same scale, they were proportionally less likely to want a second date.

Discuss.


Two words. "Human Nature". Not really surprising. For all the modern bullshit people like to think about themselves in our modern culture, the basic drives that motivate people have been evolving for eons. Oh sure there are exceptions, people who don't quite fit the norm, but the thing is you don't need to be compatible or have a glowing personality to have sex or to be sexually attracted. Hell you don't even need to be intelligent or even entirely sane to fuck or end up pregnant (and contribute to the propogation of the species). Put another way, a lot of people in our modern society think they want one set of things in a mate, but the things that really get them excited and turned on are often much more basic.

I'm a big believer in evolution, and what is is because it's what has worked in the paast. "Attractiveness" is basically an evolved way that we can quickly sum up a potential sex partner. It's what has worked. But it is also not a big mystery why. A quick look at a potential mate and our brains can quickly make a good estimate about many factors. A person who is physically healthy appearing, free of skin lesions, that has bright eyes and shiney hair, tight muscles, facial expressions that convey somethings about how sane (or insane) they are, how emotionally stable they are, and so on, all of these things add up to someone who is more likely to make a good sex partner because they are more likely to have off spring that will survive (in a pre-modern world). It's what works/ed and it's what drives us to find "sexy" partners. I am simplifying of course. There are always exceptions and humans can use their intellect to break free of their own natures, but the basic drives that motivate us to find attractive sex partners are deep seated in our biology.

xdamage
08-02-2005, 06:51 AM
I don't look at the guys that I have rejected and think "Oh my god. I can't believe that he thought HE could date someone like ME. He is so stupid and lame for liking me, I can't even believe it."


Yea but some would laugh, and in the end it doesnt matter to the rejected person why so much as that they are (and for the unattractive person, repeated rejection becomes a reason in itself not to try again in the future, unless they happen to have very strong personalities to overcome the normal tendency to give up trying).



If someone doesn't act like they are interested in me, I assume that they are not interested in me - to me that seems perfectly normal, but to each her own.


Mr P is correct, complete disinterest doesn't work, but most (not all) people do respond to some mix of interest and dis-interest. Kind of like sexual teasing in bed ;) Think of it as psycho-sexual teasing.



It had mixed results. I have funny spots of sunburn about the size of loonies where my sunblock wasn't properly applied, and I suspect it is only going to get worse when it fades to tan - I'm just going to have brown spots on a milk white body. I am going to look diseased.


Fun in the sun is always a good way to vacation (sans the sunburns parts).



You can't control other people, even guys, vagina or no (the common wisdom of pussy power notwithstanding).

Now this is the truth. In the end you only really have the ability to control (and change) yourself.

p.s. Although vagina can infact control a lot of guys ;) Just some of us have come to realize it's just vagina, good stuff, but we aren't going to roll-over and do doggie tricks for it. :D

Jenny
08-02-2005, 08:12 AM
well, you don't act completely disinterested. otherwise, you're right. she's going to move on. the key is to send her a mixed messages by expressing just enough interest to keep her on a string, but without being explicit (or honest for that matter) or acting all hard-up and slobbery like an ex-con fresh out the pen. Yeah, see - I'm not making myself clear. I am not into that, and although I don't want to malign your personal choices in terms of mating behaviour, it seems retarded to me. That would never "work" on me because, honestly, it would never even occur to me in my natural life (like outside of discussing this very situation) that people would behave like that. I would either discount him as a very friendly gay man, a straight man who was very friendly, but not very interested or I would straight out ask if he was interested - because I am perfectly cool with just being friends, but I am not going to run around acting like a friend and secretly planning to seduce him (or her). I like people that I am interested in to like me back - I don't want to have to chase them and I can't imagine why they would want to have to chase me. But I am not a rules girl, and if you are looking to "land" that type of person then I understand that that is the behaviour you would engage in. From my perspective, out here with the sane people, it looks pretty absurd.


Yea but some would laugh, and in the end it doesnt matter to the rejected person why so much as that they are
Well, that isn't a very nice thing to do. I think if someone were to actually behave that way in front of me I'd be like "Whoa. Completely misjudged you. You're mean. I'm glad you just said no."


Mr P is correct, complete disinterest doesn't work, but most (not all) people do respond to some mix of interest and dis-interest. Kind of like sexual teasing in bed Think of it as psycho-sexual teasing.
Yeah, see, I don't know who these people are outside of the "The Rules". Nobody I know likes that. And I have this silly idea that sometimes the things one does and says while in bed don't translate very well out of it. Maybe you should just try not engaging in all these weird mind games, save the teasing for the sex and see how much more satisfying your relationships are (by the way, when I use the term "relationship" in this context I mean two (or more) people interacting with each other. Not like capital "R" relationship).


p.s. Although vagina can infact control a lot of guys Just some of us have come to realize it's just vagina, good stuff, but we aren't going to roll-over and do doggie tricks for it.
See, I think that you and I might disagree with what constitutes a doggy trick. I rather suspect that it is something I would attribute to common courtesy. I have a funny story that illustrates this nicely that I may tell you some day.

The Snark
08-02-2005, 03:15 PM
Here's another oft-repeated social psychology experiment to consider. Researchers dispatch a team of students around a university campus, each assigned to ask members of the opposite sex if they would like to "go to bed". Typically, about 75% of the men approached by female students agree to the offer, compared to about 0% of the women.

I suppose this is the "social model" Jenny alludes to, although I fail to see how it works against women, given that (a) as TOO points out, the fact that men encounter rejection on a regular basis doesn't make it less painful; it just makes it more frequent, and (b) this model almost guarantees that men will, by and large, be more sexually frustrated than women. (Which, incidentally, makes it possible for you to collect several hundred dollars a week for a few hours work at a strip club.)

I get the impression that a lot of women are clueless or in denial about the realities of male sexuality. The other day I was describing to a couple of female friends an article I had read about a woman who was in the process of becoming a man, partly through injections of of testosterone. One of the things she discovered was that testosterone fundamentally changed the way she thought about sex. Previously, if she saw an attractive woman on the subway, for example, she might have an elaborate, plotted, Harlequin Romance-style fantasy about her. But once she was injected with testosterone, her fantasies became a lot more aggressive and pornographic, and the range of sexual objects she was attracted to became a lot wider. Harlequin Romance was replaced by Vivid Video, all because of a single chemical.

When I related this story to my friends, I mentioned that it made me feel a lot better about myself, given that several times a day I see a woman and instinctively think, "I want to fuck her."

My friends were shocked when I said this--they see me as a nice, sensitive guy, who, as one of them put it, "really likes being with women, but not in a creepy way."

They found it hard to fathom that I felt this way, and even harder to recognize that virtually all men (and Katrine, God bless her horny little soul) have similar impulses.

xdamage
08-02-2005, 03:24 PM
Such heresy. You mean there might actually be biological reasons why men and women tend to think and feel differently and its not all just because of some social plotting/training? ;)

Katrine
08-02-2005, 03:29 PM
Well, I want to hang out with the new boytoy tonight, but instead I am going to go out with a good old friend of mine who is a middle-aged, bald, fat, and depressed. We're getting a limo (its free, no one is splurging) and I am bringing him strippers.

How nice am I to forego ass in order to be a friend. Explain THAT one!

FBR
08-02-2005, 04:05 PM
How nice am I to forego ass in order to be a friend. Explain THAT one!

Real friends are harder to come by than ass.

FBR

xdamage
08-02-2005, 04:49 PM
What FBR said. Good friends are hard to come by.

p.s. get home early. maybe you can get some ass too. ;)

FBR
08-02-2005, 04:58 PM
p.s. get home early. maybe you can get some ass too. ;)

Haha I wish. I've been working late every night..with an occasional SCJ posting break of course. And yesterday, an early evening rendezvous with Miss D to enjoy a few drinks and a bowl of soup. Actually, it doesnt sound like I've been working all that hard ::)

FBR

Jenny
08-02-2005, 05:02 PM
I suppose this is the "social model" Jenny alludes to, although I fail to see how it works against women, given that (a) as TOO points out, the fact that men encounter rejection on a regular basis doesn't make it less painful; it just makes it more frequent, and (b) this model almost guarantees that men will, by and large, be more sexually frustrated than women. (Which, incidentally, makes it possible for you to collect several hundred dollars a week for a few hours work at a strip club.)
I'm not talking about an ultimate judgement in which men or women are more adversely affected by it. I'm saying that for a woman that rejection, or for that matter, that simple lack of interest is not just a sexual rejection - it holds a whole big sense of failure because (as you mention above) men are SUPPOSED to be horny all the time, men are not MEANT to be particularly choosy (due to the sexual frustration that you allude to) and a woman who cannot readily get sex is somehow not a woman. Just saying. Incidentally - I'd be interested in a experiment in which men were asked and then actually had to do it - I know you guys are about to guffaw, but in my experience (an admittedly slutty, strippery experience) guys are much less able to have casual sex than women, and they have no idea how to respond to genuinely sexually aggressive women (as opposed to the play that was probably dictating the above experiment). I have a more anecdotal illustration - I had a "friend" - like someone I knew, but not someone I liked. She once went to an after hours bar in Guam when a carrier was in (they had been out for something like 9 months) and went around to every guy, lifted up her shirt, grabbed his hands, put them on her breasts and asked him to go home with her. Well, not every single guy. But a lot of them. Literally dozens of guys told her to get away from them. Now, granted, she was remarkably ugly - like in such a way that there is no eye of the beholder and she was missing a tooth - a front one. But still. Dozens of guys went home alone rather than with her.


I get the impression that a lot of women are clueless or in denial about the realities of male sexuality.
Generally when people say that I think they are pretty clueless about sexuality of both sexes. But, after reading the rest, I think your friends are just asexual. They are clearly reproducing by themselves like paramecium.


The other day I was describing to a couple of female friends an article I had read about a woman who was in the process of becoming a man, partly through injections of of testosterone. One of the things she discovered was that testosterone fundamentally changed the way she thought about sex. Previously, if she saw an attractive woman on the subway, for example, she might have an elaborate, plotted, Harlequin Romance-style fantasy about her. But once she was injected with testosterone, her fantasies became a lot more aggressive and pornographic, and the range of sexual objects she was attracted to became a lot wider. Harlequin Romance was replaced by Vivid Video, all because of a single chemical.
See, this is really interesting, but there is no way to determine that this is the result of the hormones - I'm just saying. Like, okay, long story, blah, blah, blah, and my boyfriend from high school (and one of my best friends ever since) is now a pre-op trans woman. She is also a writer and filmmaker so I have plenty of opportunity to hear and see all sorts of work done by transgendered people about this specific topic - their sexuality after transition and/or surgery. And it is extremely troubling - not that they have pornographic fantasies, because very few of them could outdo the S & M fantasies that my roommate describes in fairly excruciating detail. But that there are so many fantasies about unconsensual sex and violence (against men and women). Like one guy read a story about what he wanted to do when he got his new dick - it involved threatening to shoot a man in a bathroom while forcing him to fellatate a gun and jerk him off. Another wrote this very disturbing thing about how he became aroused when he thought women were afraid of him. But that is not simple hormones. (and even in X's incredibly simplistic and factually wrong notions of evolution would make no sense). It is related to how they interpret gender and sex - it is not purely a hormonal issue. In fact, the last guy (and I know I would be doing this much better if I could remember names) mentioned how it was heightened because he could remember being that woman, being afraid of a man on the street, etc., etc. This is how they are performing their gender, you see? It doesn't just come back to a single chemical.

And, by the way - she gets injections? Most of the people I know have a daily oral dose. Of course most of the people I know are MtF, which could explain it. But the process is very involved, and last I heard involves a cornucopia of drugs, not just a single chemical in any case.



When I related this story to my friends, I mentioned that it made me feel a lot better about myself, given that several times a day I see a woman and instinctively think, "I want to fuck her."
Well, I don't know why you need to feel better about that. I personally never feel bad about random sexual desire for strangers. But if you need to feel better - EVERYONE - male and female - experiences this kind sexual desire unless they are on medications, very old or seriously repressed.


They found it hard to fathom that I felt this way, and even harder to recognize that virtually all men (and Katrine, God bless her horny little soul) have similar impulses.
They find it hard to fathom that men like to have sex? Or that they are sometimes attracted to women (I just don't see what is blowing our minds here)? Or that they can feel sexual desire for a stranger? Have they all been subject to female circumcision? Are they maybe just messing with you?

All Good Things
08-02-2005, 05:08 PM
We're all messed up in different ways.

Thank God! I tend to think of it as a difference of degree, not of kind, though.

The sole purpose of my dip into the sentimentality pool was to challenge Jenny's claim that guys, when rejected, simply shrug and say, "whatever." Not true. Guys are just better at shielding visible reactions.

What continues to amaze me is that no matter how rich, famous, successful, tall or beautiful you eventually become, your vulnerabilities are always determined by your lowest point of pain. That's why celebrities and politicians keep flunkies around to lie to them. We are all a lot more emotionally vulnerable than we think.

I really do appreciate Jenny's observation that there is no social model of acceptability for beautiful women who can't seem to get laid. This comment, while true, often engenders confusion, disbelief or even hostility among many men. But attractive women know this very well (another beautiful and brilliant dancer made the same comments to me even before Jenny replied; she added that many men become flaming assholes as a ferocious defense mechanism against being emotionally damaged -- because men are often more vulnerable than women.)

Beautiful, sexy and brilliant. Now I understand your fixation with Fatal Attraction. ;)

xdamage
08-02-2005, 06:11 PM
It is related to how they interpret gender and sex - it is not purely a hormonal issue.

Of course it's not purely hormonal, but it is partially (possibly greatly) hormonal. And that's key because those who have latched on to the modern belief that all human behavior is just the cause (or fault) of "social training" are arriving at some really ridiculous (or conspiratorial, aka almost paranoid) conclusions about human nature, and how we ended up as we have.

If I was being simplistic, it's the nature of this forum, one has to be. Read the works of R. Dawkins, S. Pinker, C. Darwn. 50,000 pages later you'll have the long, non-simplistic version. It's simply impossible to represent that in a forum like this.

Good reads. Highly recommended.

xdamage
08-02-2005, 06:22 PM
I really do appreciate Jenny's observation that there is no social model of acceptability for beautiful women who can't seem to get laid. ;)

Well, now I'm confused.

I thought she was referring to unattractive women that can't get laid because men find her too ugly to have sex with, which I'll grant is indeed more difficult for a woman to cope with than an unattractive man.

If though she was talking about a beautiful woman that can't get laid, well that's an entirely different matter, and the people around her correctly judge that must be something wrong with her personality that is keeping men away. That's not a problem that requires the whole fucking world change to feel sorry for the beautiful woman. Sometimes you have to call a spade a fucking spade. Such a woman, if she really can't get laid, is going to have to make the tough choice to finally face up to the one thing she probably doesn't want to face, to work on changing the one person on the planet she has the power to change, herself. As well all know, that can be damn near impossible for some people to do.

Jenny
08-02-2005, 07:12 PM
Okay - you've just made my point beautifully. The nice looking girl who strikes out has to have something wrong with her - I don't think you'd say that about a guy. This is precisely what I mean when I say that for women it is not just a personal rejection the way it is for guys.

Jenny
08-02-2005, 07:24 PM
If I was being simplistic, it's the nature of this forum, one has to be. Read the works of R. Dawkins, S. Pinker, C. Darwn. 50,000 pages later you'll have the long, non-simplistic version. It's simply impossible to represent that in a forum like this.

Good reads. Highly recommended.
I love the way that you assume that because I don't agree with you that I am completely uneducated on the subject. It's adorable in that incredibly sexist paternalistic way. The way you apply the theories is far from proven scientifically, because it can't be. The entire premise relies on backward projection that there is no anthrolopolical support for - plus the incredibly dated notion that everything that preceded us must have been like us only less good. I am familiar with the theories. But since we are educating each other You should try picking up The Beauty Myth, The Second Sex, Women in Prehistory, Excitable Speech (most especially) and Stiffed - then tell which one is the radical feminist - I'll give you a hint - there is just one.

xdamage
08-02-2005, 07:48 PM
Okay - you've just made my point beautifully. The nice looking girl who strikes out has to have something wrong with her - I don't think you'd say that about a guy. This is precisely what I mean when I say that for women it is not just a personal rejection the way it is for guys.

Nope, absolutely incorrect. If a good looking guy can't get laid there is something wrong with his personality/psyche.

The great thing about equality is both men AND women get to be labeled fucked up when they are fucked up. A good looking woman that claims she "CAN'T" get laid (not to be confused with doesn't want to be laid), yes, there is very definitely something wrong with her personality. If it was a good looking guy who couldn't get laid, yes, I'd definitely say it was his personality.

I don't really care if others in society coddle men or women more who are in this position in life. In the end it doesn't change jack. They have the looks, but they are going to have to get to work on their personalities if they want to get laid. It's great. It's called focusing on self, taking on personal responsibility, instead of focusing on how unfair society has been or why society isn't taking on responsibility for their personality problems.

Really beautiful people just aren't going to get a lot of sympathy from society if they can't get laid, not men, not women. Besides though don't need it. What they need is to start focusing on themselves and figure out why it is the opposite sex doesn't want have sex with them despite their good looks. As long as they are focusing on what society is doing (aka, others) they are focusing on the wrong thing. Focus on the one person we can change; ourselves.

mr_punk
08-02-2005, 10:38 PM
In a university psychological study, random students walking were asked to rate fellow students on an attractiveness scale, personality scale, and compatibility scale. Then, once again they were randomly set up on dates with one another. The ONLY factor that contributed to one part of the arbitrary couple wanting to see the other member of the pair again was ATTRACTIVENESS! That's it. It didn't matter if it was the female or the male. It made no difference if one partner chose a Personality and Compatibility 10 for the other. The person who perceived their selected mate more attractive desired the second date. If the other person found their date less attractive on the same scale, they were proportionally less likely to want a second date.Discusswhat's to discuss? there's no substitute for that initial physical attraction which trumps personality or compatibility. they could have done that study in any sc. in fact, it's reminds me of that thread that asked, "what do attracts you to a dancer: looks, personality or mileage?". anyway, while everyone gave different answers. i'm sure physical attraction initally played a large role even for the guys who seemed to qualify their remarks so they wouldn't appear to be shallow and superficial.

You have so many more options to see attractive, yet vapid female specimins.hey! it's not nice to make fun of the vapid, hot-looking, blond, big fake-titted women. them girls can be real friendly.

anywho, physical beauty is not what makes someone sexy. That's primarily a male motivator. No judgement, I'm just working with very basic biological principle here.well, let's not go overboard with the male biological principal. IIRC, i also said in that thread that while looks will get you an audition. however, looks alone won't make me stay in my seat.

Yeah, see - I'm not making myself clear. I am not into that, and although I don't want to malign your personal choices in terms of mating behaviour, it seems retarded to me. That would never "work" on me because, honestly, it would never even occur to me in my natural life (like outside of discussing this very situation) that people would behave like that.well, perhaps i'm not making myself clear. i'm not saying it would "work" on you or that you're into that specifically. all i'm saying is that, at the time, it worked well enough for me that i saw no reason to change what i was doing.

I would either discount him as a very friendly gay man, a straight man who was very friendly, but not very interested or I would straight out ask if he was interested - because I am perfectly cool with just being friends, but I am not going to run around acting like a friend and secretly planning to seduce him (or her).again...perhaps, i didn't make myself clear. it's not about acting in a friendly manner or even expressing interest in being your friend. what the point? that's the kiss of death.

But I am not a rules girl, and if you are looking to "land" that type of person then I understand that that is the behaviour you would engage in.a rules girl? what do the rules have to do with anything? i'm not talking about some lame book or some absurd new age "foolproof method" of seduction.

Yeah, see, I don't know who these people are outside of the "The Rules". Nobody I know likes that. And I have this silly idea that sometimes the things one does and says while in bed don't translate very well out of it.sheesh, it has nothing to do with a freaking book or even thinking logically because human desire can short-circuit that process. when two people who have good chemistry come together. sometimes, it's just good chemistry which can also be very ephemeral. so, it doesn't follow that both parties have the same goal or agenda in mind beyond the good chemistry. one party might want some kind of relationship (that's "R" or "r") with emotional availability, etc and the other party might just want to hit-n-run at their convenience (ie: the booty call).

Maybe you should just try not engaging in all these weird mind games, save the teasing for the sex and see how much more satisfying your relationships are (by the way, when I use the term "relationship" in this context I mean two (or more) people interacting with each other. Not like capital "R" relationship).IOW, the sexual relationships (that "R" or "r") with the emotional entanglements are good and satisfiying and the ones without them are evil and cruel. well, that's not surprising. you being a radical feminist and all. unfortunately, your minions haven't captured, brainwashed and feminized me yet.

I know you guys are about to guffaw, but in my experience (an admittedly slutty, strippery experience) guys are much less able to have casual sex than women, and they have no idea how to respond to genuinely sexually aggressive women (as opposed to the play that was probably dictating the above experiment). I have a more anecdotal illustration <snip>LOL....i hope you're not attributing in some small way that her sexual aggressiveness rather than the fact that she sounds unattractive gave the guys limp weenies. if the woman is as ugly as you describe. like the old saying goes," i wouldn't that ugly biatch with your dick".

I get the impression that a lot of women are clueless or in denial about the realities of male sexuality.if jenny's anecdote is any indication. they don't..
Well, I want to hang out with the new boytoy tonight, but instead I am going to go out with a good old friend of mine who is a middle-aged, bald, fat, and depressed. We're getting a limo (its free, no one is splurging) and I am bringing him strippers.
How nice am I to forego ass in order to be a friend. Explain THAT one! russian/ukrainian..hello, need i say more.

All Good Things
08-02-2005, 10:41 PM
X, let me try.

Let's talk social acceptance models, not personal feelings (I've beaten that horse half to death myself, and think I've made my point).

Distilled down to its essence:

Good-looking guy crashes and burns = "Well, all guys crash and burn sometimes. Fuck that shit, have another beer."

Good-looking woman crashes and burns = "Wow, she can't get laid, and she's so beautiful. Must be something wrong with her. What beautiful chick can't get laid? Every guy in this bar wants her!"

Fact: It's often not easy for hot women to attract the men they want to fuck.

Clark
08-02-2005, 10:50 PM
Guys can be in the same situation. Last month, I was propositioned by three different women, 2 of them attractive, but none really the type I would want to have sex with. Women are hardly unique in that respect.

Personally, I've never seen an attractive woman that couldn't get laid. Man either for that matter. I've seen plenty who can't get laid by the people they would like to.

All Good Things
08-02-2005, 10:53 PM
Nope, absolutely incorrect. If a good looking guy can't get laid there is something wrong with his personality/psyche.

What in God's name makes you say something like that?

You are completely right if you are out trolling among drunk coeds and Hooters waitresses. But if you aspire to a higher demographic, you are going to strike out once in a while. Trust me, it makes no difference how rich or famous or successful you are. This is particularly true if you socialize among people who are on TV as much as you are. :)

xdamage
08-03-2005, 03:14 AM
What in God's name makes you say something like that?

You are completely right if you are out trolling among drunk coeds and Hooters waitresses. But if you aspire to a higher demographic, you are going to strike out once in a while. Trust me, it makes no difference how rich or famous or successful you are. This is particularly true if you socialize among people who are on TV as much as you are. :)

Oh geez, I assumed we were all reasonably sane and talking about the emotional issues of not being able to score for long periods of time.

For those talking about beautiful people, that CAN'T get laid for ONE whole night :O, or CAN'T get laid because they can't find anyone beautiful or worthy enough of their time, or CAN'T get laid because they want to get laid by someone they are infatuated with who doesn't feel reciprocal interest, and what a terrible emotional trauma this is that society hasn't put in place for them emotional support emergency centers, well I can only suggest two things:

1.) Leave the baby diapers at home. They are very unattractive to the opposite sex and they stink.

2.) While spending the night alone, instead of spending it crying about how traumatizing it has been that a whole night went by that they COULDN"T get laid, here are several new thoughts that they could tumble around in their brains:

o For both beautiful men and women that feel this way, contemplate that the the whole universe wasn't designed and organized for their personal benefit.

o For the woman that believes all of the worlds problems devolve into social problems constructed by men, contemplate that men don't have a secret consipiracy setup in which they went around and prevented the building of personal emotional crisis centers to prop up the beautiful woman who just couldn't find someone to screw her for one WHOLE night.

o For both, maybe try to be thankful, even if just for one whole night, that they have been lucky to do well in the genetic lottery. Hey, even maybe gloat in the fact that they are able to get laid with who they want much of the time vs other men and women who rarely get laid because of their appearance. Because even gloating would be a far more attractive personality trait then the self pity.

xdamage
08-03-2005, 03:30 AM
X, let me try.

Let's talk social acceptance models, not personal feelings (I've beaten that horse half to death myself, and think I've made my point).

Distilled down to its essence:

Good-looking guy crashes and burns = "Well, all guys crash and burn sometimes. Fuck that shit, have another beer."

Good-looking woman crashes and burns = "Wow, she can't get laid, and she's so beautiful. Must be something wrong with her. What beautiful chick can't get laid? Every guy in this bar wants her!"


Yea, I get this clearly. ;)

And in the bigger context it comes down the fact that a beautiful woman who is severely traumatized because she hasn't yet learned that beauty or not, not every man wants her, (and/or who blaims this terribly traumatic situation the society created by "men" when a full half of society is composed of women) is, well, in need of some therapy. The situation doesn't warrant a complete devaluation of her personal self worth. Nor does it warrant a tirade or lashing out against a full half of society.

The guy in this example above who goes off and has the beer and gets over it, he has a much more sane way of coping with it.

And as far as the girl above, most normal people in the society around her would just as likely assume that she doesn't want to get laid that night, not that she CAN'T get laid that night. That she hasn't found anyone worthy of her. Or yes maybe the guy she wants doesn't want her. Maybe he likes a different type of woman. Maybe he just isn't looking. Maybe he likes someone else or is involved with someone else. Or maybe her personality isn't so hot and it's a turn off to the guy. Who knows. Who cares.

But this too is common place and nobody normal expects the universe to work otherwise. Nobody normal is looking down on her wondering what's wrong with her that she couldn't get laid for one whole night!*

It's so common place that we don't all get what we want every night that we want it, that if a beautiful woman really internalized a situation like that and turned into an emotional trauma drama about her, and or worse a tirade on society (aka "men") who have put her in such a terrible position, well it sure sounds to me like she has some personality problems.

* Again though I assumed we were talking about a beautiful woman (or man) that aren't able to get laid for extended periods of time and can't figure out why. If this is all just about the trauma of not being able to get laid for one whole night, well, then thank god the universe doesn't work that way. We'd have little fucking self-involved monsters running around with absolutely zero tolerance for not getting what they want whenever they want it. It's just one night. Go have a beer and get over oneself.



Fact: It's often not easy for hot women to attract the men they want to fuck.

This is basic nature, to try and get the sex partners that we *can't* easily have. It's a good biological, evolutionary trait. No one likes the rejection parts of course, not women or men (a point you've already raised).

My main objection is to the self-pity and/or lashing out at the opposite sex for this state of affairs. Tough beans! This is the way the world works. Even hot women don't get everything they want, and even hot women (often, commonly) are attracted to the guys they can't have.

If Jenny's main complaint is that men aren't acting like neanderthals and taking up every hot woman on their offer just because they are hot, well welcome to the modern age of equality. And that society (aka "men") haven't prepared women to deal with this rejection, well what are we suppose to do? Break out the violins? At least half of the people on the planet are women - if you don't like that you're not prepared for rejection blaim that half too. So some men are thinking with their big heads now and saying no, rejecting even the hot girls. Hey, maybe the reason they are saying no is that the girl just has looks and her personality isn't so hot? Something to think about ;)

xdamage
08-03-2005, 03:55 AM
Guys can be in the same situation. Last month, I was propositioned by three different women, 2 of them attractive, but none really the type I would want to have sex with. Women are hardly unique in that respect.


Yup, same to me last weekend, offers I had to turn down. But I couldn't because I have a SO (not be confused with CAN'T get laid).



Personally, I've never seen an attractive woman that couldn't get laid. Man either for that matter. I've seen plenty who can't get laid by the people they would like to.

Exactly

But we have also all know people who really can't get laid because of their appearance. It goes on for them week after week, sometimes months. Maybe they have been genetically unlucky. Maybe they have been in an accident. Maybe they're aging. Maybe they are ill or haven't been taking care of themselves.

People who are physically unattractive and thus CAN'T get layed because they are genereally rejected based on their appearance, I do feel some pity for because about all they can do is learn to suck it up and accept that they aren't wanted physically. As I said in another post, I'll even pity women more then in men in this predicament.

However I said "some" because often even then the person could do better, but they'd have to work hard to improve their looks (e.g., diet, exercise, go buy new clothing, facials, surgery, etc.). Even when you're dealt a less then optimal hand in life you should try to play it as well as you can, and (self) pity should not take the place of taking action.

But anyone naturally attractive that's truly feeling like they have been traumatized, or screwed over by the entire opposite sex, because they can't find someone to hook up with for one whole night, well tough shit. That's just as well because when people get everything they want all of the time they have a way of turning into tyrannts, and complete assholes.

xdamage
08-03-2005, 05:59 AM
what's to discuss? there's no substitute for that initial physical attraction which trumps personality or compatibility. they could have done that study in any sc. in fact, it's reminds me of that thread that asked, "what do attracts you to a dancer: looks, personality or mileage?". anyway, while everyone gave different answers. i'm sure physical attraction initally played a large role even for the guys who seemed to qualify their remarks so they wouldn't appear to be shallow and superficial.


You said it differently then I, but yes I completely agree.

It's almost comical how good we all can be at self denial. Like how a guy only ever seems to have the big rush of emotional attraction (aka biological attraction) to sexy looking women, know this is the case (he will admit this doesn't happen when he is around ugly women), and yet still not be able to acknowledge the physical attraction is the main factor in how he is feeling. Instead he will convince himself that it really is the strippers sparkling personality that has him forking over the $$s, which somehow makes it a deeper, more meaningful experience. ::)

Jenny
08-03-2005, 06:05 AM
a rules girl? what do the rules have to do with anything? i'm not talking about some lame book or some absurd new age "foolproof method" of seduction.A lame book? Doesn't that lame book pretty much advance your precise same theory - i.e. that people want what they can't have, so you have to act like they can't have you? I've made clear why I think it's lame - it sounds like good night time reading for you.


sheesh, it has nothing to do with a freaking book or even thinking logically because human desire can short-circuit that process. when two people who have good chemistry come together. sometimes, it's just good chemistry which can also be very ephemeral. so, it doesn't follow that both parties have the same goal or agenda in mind beyond the good chemistry. one party might want some kind of relationship (that's "R" or "r") with emotional availability, etc and the other party might just want to hit-n-run at their convenience (ie: the booty call). I think you and I mean different things by emotional availability - although I have yet to use the expression emotional availability. Except for here. You're just assuming that I am talking about emotions and "R"elationships because ... I don't even know why actually. Why are you assuming that?


IOW, the sexual relationships (that "R" or "r") with the emotional entanglements are good and satisfiying and the ones without them are evil and cruel. Sigh. In other words, perhaps but those are some pretty signigicantly different words. Sometimes I wonder why I bother capitilizing at all. The "R" would stand for emotional entanglements - the "r" would stand for any people interacting with each other for any purpose for any length of time. So anonymous sex in the bathroom of a bar between two people (or for that matter three people) who never plan to see each other again or learn each other's names would be a "r"elationship.


well, that's not surprising. you being a radical feminist and all. unfortunately, your minions haven't captured, brainwashed and feminized me yet. I'm really interested in what radical feminist texts you've been reading which declares that only sex within the confines of a "R"elationship is good. It's the radical feminist part of me that strongly encourages the "r"elationships.


LOL....i hope you're not attributing in some small way that her sexual aggressiveness rather than the fact that she sounds unattractive gave the guys limp weenies. if the woman is as ugly as you describe. like the old saying goes," i wouldn't that ugly biatch with your dick". Okay - so you think that people are more attracted to people who don't make themselves readily available and play hard to get, but you simultaneously think that men are very attracted to aggressive women who do make themselves readily available.... hmmm. Yeah, poor little Tascha is maybe not the best example, being so horribly physically unattractive and all.

Katrine
08-03-2005, 03:26 PM
Well, I took care of my friend AND got the A-S-S later from boytoy. Now off to make some gambling money for Vegas tomorrow. Yeah baby!

SportsWriter2
08-03-2005, 06:52 PM
Well, I took care of my friend AND got the A-S-S later from boytoy. Now off to make some gambling money for Vegas tomorrow. Yeah baby!

Kat, you're the Little Annie Fannie of precarious hookups. :)

The Snark
08-03-2005, 06:57 PM
Well, I took care of my friend AND got the A-S-S later from boytoy. Now off to make some gambling money for Vegas tomorrow. Yeah baby!
God, I love a happy ending.

I think your friends are just asexual. They are clearly reproducing by themselves like paramecium.
Well, no, they have lots of sex with a wide variety of partners, far more than I do. I think one of the things they find hard to fathom is how a cute, smart guy in his early 30s (i.e., me) would have a hard time finding a sexual partner. (Too bad xdamage wasn't there to explain that I have a defective personality.) But more than that, they seem to have a female version of the madonna/whore complex in which they see men either as creepy lechers who hit on women indiscriminately or as sweet, caring guys who want nurturing, mutually respectful relationships. Of course, most men are both of these things, but they seem to have a hard time grasping the degree to which men's lecherous instincts are repressed in daily life.

But that is not simple hormones. (and even in X's incredibly simplistic and factually wrong notions of evolution would make no sense). It is related to how they interpret gender and sex - it is not purely a hormonal issue. In fact, the last guy (and I know I would be doing this much better if I could remember names) mentioned how it was heightened because he could remember being that woman, being afraid of a man on the street, etc., etc. This is how they are performing their gender, you see? It doesn't just come back to a single chemical.
I think you're right to some degree, and I do think that X's evolutionary explanations are a little simplistic and often amount to hypothetical just-so stories. (By the way, X, you should read Sarah Blaffer Hrdy's Mother Nature, which is an interesting and erudite take on these issues by a feminist sociobiologist.) But I think a single chemical does make a difference, along with social conditioning, personal inclinations, and so on.

And, by the way - she gets injections? Most of the people I know have a daily oral dose. Of course most of the people I know are MtF, which could explain it. But the process is very involved, and last I heard involves a cornucopia of drugs, not just a single chemical in any case.
Yeah, she probably took the T orally. It's been a few years since I read the article and my memory is faulty.

Casual Observer
08-03-2005, 08:01 PM
Good-looking guy crashes and burns = "Well, all guys crash and burn sometimes. Fuck that shit, have another beer."

Good-looking woman crashes and burns = "Wow, she can't get laid, and she's so beautiful. Must be something wrong with her. What beautiful chick can't get laid? Every guy in this bar wants her!"

Fact: It's often not easy for hot women to attract the men they want to fuck.

Agreed in full.

<S> TOO

mr_punk
08-04-2005, 12:59 AM
A lame book? Doesn't that lame book pretty much advance your precise same theory - i.e. that people want what they can't have, so you have to act like they can't have you? I've made clear why I think it's lame - it sounds like good night time reading for you.is that was that book about? strange, i thought it was some kind of dog...er...male training manual printed up by two wacked-out broads (probably feminists) from jersey. i'm not looking to train or tell anyone how to train someone else.

I think you and I mean different things by emotional availability - although I have yet to use the expression emotional availability. Except for here. You're just assuming that I am talking about emotions and "R"elationships because ... I don't even know why actually. Why are you assuming that?no, i used the word first. it's my paternalistic way of directing conversation. anyway, i've found that most of the time in a "R". it doesn't matter if it's a friendship, some kind of official relationship or even a fuck buddy. women look for that component.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother capitilizing at all.well, capitalization is an internet faux pas. shame on you.

The "R" would stand for emotional entanglements - the "r" would stand for any people interacting with each other for any purpose for any length of time. So anonymous sex in the bathroom of a bar between two people (or for that matter three people) who never plan to see each other again or learn each other's names would be a "r"elationship.much better..thanks for expounding on "R" and "r". in any case, that's pretty broad. the "r" could very well be the waitress in a diner that i go to on a regular basis for breakfast. however, i wouldn't characterize it as a relationship even with a "r". unless, i'm interacting with her beyond asking for coffee and the check. which isn't very likely at 5:00 AM and at time in the morning. i can't even remember my name and i'm certainly not interested in learning a new one. i just want coffee. no, i need coffee and lots of it. can you tell i'm not a morning person?

I'm really interested in what radical feminist texts you've been reading which declares that only sex within the confines of a "R"elationship is good.it's not so much radical feminist text, but all of those so-called self-improvement or self-help books that deal with relationships. books like "The Rules" and it's ilk such as,"Why Men Love Bitches", etc are mostly written by women who promote that idea and women (and feminized males) eat that sh#t up like candy. all the way up to the best seller lists. furthermore, i find those books absurd and the people who buy them desperate. they are just as ridiculous as those seduction or pick-up books you used to see in ads in the back of Hustler magazine right next to the ads for "natural male enhancement" pills.

It's the radical feminist part of me that strongly encourages the "r"elationships.well, if you want go around talking to waiters at 5:00 AM like you're best buds, be my guest.

Okay - so you think that people are more attracted to people who don't make themselves readily available and play hard to getis this the feminist way of directing conversation? i think i said that women enjoy a challenge as much as men. now, you might not like a challenge when it comes to dating. perhaps, you prefer pliant, spineless, candy-ass minions. however, i'm sure you enjoy a challenge in a different aspect of your life. otherwise, you wouldn't be down here arguing feminist propaganda instead of being upstairs with your "sisters in the struggle" .

you simultaneously think that men are very attracted to aggressive women who do make themselves readily available.well, i don't see your anecdote as a question of her aggressivness, her availablility or whether or not guys are much less able to have casual sex. she's simply sounds so physically unappealing that the men would rather jerk-off. the fact that happened in a bar with a bunch of hard-up sailors. a place where not even the strongest beer googles can hide her looks tells me how unattractive she must be. trust me, if she had been even half-way decent looking. there would have been at least one guy drunk enough who would have taken her up on her offer.

Yeah, poor little Tascha is maybe not the best example, being so horribly physically unattractive and all.so, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and perform a field experiment? i'm assuming you must be half-way decent looking, after a couple of very strong drinks, despite the tumorous growth on your face, right? the canadian dental system can't be as bad as the british. so, i'm sure you have all of your teeth. well, the next time you dance for a customer. why don't you start stick shifting and free willy and see how many guys are less able to have casual sex due to your aggressivness and availability.

xdamage
08-04-2005, 04:18 AM
I think one of the things they find hard to fathom is how a cute, smart guy in his early 30s (i.e., me) would have a hard time finding a sexual partner.

A lot of guys say things like this. They say things like I'm a nice guy. I'm smart. I'm good looking. I don't understand why women aren't attracted to me. Maybe women aren't attracted to smart, cute guys? Or maybe that's not what they see when they see you? Or maybe you're only chasing after the ones that want to fuck really hot guys?, a real challenge, and you are no challenge or they think they could better than you?

If your not getting layed for long periods of time, there is always a reason. It is not because of some great unexplainable paradox. There is something about you that is not turning the women on. Could be your looks, or it could be how you come across to others (your personality) or it could be that your personality isn't getting the interest of the women you are chasing after (also a personality issue that you can do something about, though some women are so wacked out you really are better off chasing after some of the saner ones, even if they aren't quite as hot). Or maybe you really don't want to get laid? (also a personality issue).

The bottom line is you can blaim this situation on society, or on mysterious factors that are out of your control, or you can take responsibility for the one person you can change, you, and do something about it. You simply have to decide, are you happy as you are, and want to go on being the guy who has a hard time finding a sex partner? waiting for some girl to come along that wants you? or do you want it badly enough that you are willing to make changes? Asking women what they really think of you is a good start, but not all women really know what they want in a guy either. Many will say I want a "nice sweet guy" (and that may be the kind of guy they end up marrying) but in the mean time they are getting hot in the pants for the types who are aggressive, non-predicatable, overly confident, etc. Often what people think they want, and tell you they want in our modern culture often doesn't jive with what really turns them on.



By the way, X, you should read Sarah Blaffer Hrdy's Mother Nature, which is an interesting and erudite take on these issues by a feminist sociobiologist.) But I think a single chemical does make a difference, along with social conditioning, personal inclinations, and so on.


Yea, I've read it.

Jenny
08-04-2005, 06:19 AM
is that was that book about? strange, i thought it was some kind of dog...er...male training manual printed up by two wacked-out broads (probably feminists) from jersey.
Well, they could be from New Jersey, but it's not generally considered feminist. It's about how men will want to marry you if you play hard to get. Don't accept a date for Friday after Wednesday, don't spend the night at his house and don't see him more than twice a week kind of thing. I personally found "The Rules for Cats" somewhat more entertaining - don't accept Friday's leftovers after Wednesday, and if people insist on calling you by a name you don't like leap up onto the TV and pee down the back of it.

no, i used the word first. it's my paternalistic way of directing conversation.
Oh. Well. Good job.

anyway, i've found that most of the time in a "R". it doesn't matter if it's a friendship, some kind of official relationship or even a fuck buddy. women look for that component.
See - I really find that men look for that component.

much better..thanks for expounding on "R" and "r". in any case, that's pretty broad. the "r" could very well be the waitress in a diner that i go to on a regular basis for breakfast.
Yes. Precisely.

it's not so much radical feminist text, but all of those so-called self-improvement or self-help books that deal with relationships. books like "The Rules" and it's ilk such as,"Why Men Love Bitches", etc are mostly written by women who promote that idea and women (and feminized males) eat that sh#t up like candy.
Are you just trying to rile me right now? It's the morning. I'm unrile-able. The fact that it is written by a woman doesn't make it feminist, and generally books written about how to make men like you are not terribly feminist. The feminist books say: "Nonsense! Men already like you" or "Fuck men! Who the fuck cares what men like anyway!"

they are just as ridiculous as those seduction or pick-up books you used to see in ads in the back of Hustler magazine right next to the ads for "natural male enhancement" pills.
You don't love those seduction books? They're awesome! Like really, totally and completely. The one I like the best was by some guy names Ross Jeffries or Jeffrey or Geoffery or something. One of the best pieces of advice he gave was that you shouldn't bother picking up female patrons at a bar. Because (seriously, now) the waitresses are generally way cuter, and you know where to find them and they HAVE to be be there - he actually points out that if regular women find you annoying they can just go to another bar, but the waitress is stuck with you, giving you the opportunity to wear her down.

well, if you want go around talking to waiters at 5:00 AM like you're best buds, be my guest.
It's closer to quarter past eight. And her name is Remy. If I were forced to get up at 5.00 AM I think that I would feel an inherent camaraderie with everyone else who was up with me. Like "Good morning. Doesn't this suck?"

is this the feminist way of directing conversation? i think i said that women enjoy a challenge as much as men. now, you might not like a challenge when it comes to dating. perhaps, you prefer pliant, spineless, candy-ass minions.
Well, I definitely don't like a challenge when it comes to dating. Read into that what you will.
And... "minions" - what DO you think I am doing with these guys?

however, i'm sure you enjoy a challenge in a different aspect of your life. otherwise, you wouldn't be down here arguing feminist propaganda instead of being upstairs with your "sisters in the struggle" .
How many times have I used the expression "I thrive on contention"? Let's just leave it at "many." And - pshaw. Unfortunately upstairs is largely populated with teenaged girls who insist that feminists are ugly women who are just jealous of strippers. You know - "grrl power" instead of "grrrl power". It's less frustrating than just depressing.

well, i don't see your anecdote as a question of her aggressivness, her availablility or whether or not guys are much less able to have casual sex. she's simply sounds so physically unappealing that the men would rather jerk-off. the fact that happened in a bar with a bunch of hard-up sailors. a place where not even the strongest beer googles can hide her looks tells me how unattractive she must be. trust me, if she had been even half-way decent looking. there would have been at least one guy drunk enough who would have taken her up on her offer.
Well, she found one eventually. It just took a while. Does that change the story at all?

so, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and perform a field experiment? i'm assuming you must be half-way decent looking, after a couple of very strong drinks, despite the tumorous growth on your face, right? the canadian dental system can't be as bad as the british. so, i'm sure you have all of your teeth. well, the next time you dance for a customer. why don't you start stick shifting and free willy and see how many guys are less able to have casual sex due to your aggressivness and availability.
Okay. Stop trying to make me have sex with my customers. And there are differences - context, for one. And I thought that we agreed to put a moratorium on the expression "Free Willy." It seriously just makes me cringe, man. And I don't understand how that puts my money where my mouth is? Are we having a bet? Because I could just lie. I am a stripper (albeit part time). We are shifty, shifty, unreliable girls.

The Snark
08-04-2005, 06:58 AM
A lot of guys say things like this. They say things like I'm a nice guy. I'm smart. I'm good looking. I don't understand why women aren't attracted to me. Maybe women aren't attracted to smart, cute guys? Or maybe that's not what they see when they see you?
Shit, I dunno. Strippers tell me I'm cute, gorgeous, handsome, sexy, "could be a model", "I can tell you're a good person just by looking at you" and the inevitable "mmm, I love a tall man". Apparently I have beautiful eyes (natch--the trusty warhorse of lame compliments), sexy legs, nice pecs, nice teeth (!), and an adorable little ass.

They wouldn't be lying... w-w-would they?

xdamage
08-04-2005, 07:40 AM
Shit, I dunno. Strippers tell me I'm cute, gorgeous, handsome, sexy, "could be a model", "I can tell you're a good person just by looking at you" and the inevitable "mmm, I love a tall man". Apparently I have beautiful eyes (natch--the trusty warhorse of lame compliments), sexy legs, nice pecs, nice teeth (!), and an adorable little ass.

They wouldn't be lying... w-w-would they?

I've heard that too. I must be going to the same strippers as you, or maybe we are just long lost twins. 8)

p.s. if you want to know what they really like, try to arrange to see their BFs after hours at the club. ;)

TigersMilk
08-04-2005, 03:47 PM
Id do you!! LOL Im horny as hell and need great sex. This is all hypethetical though. Dirty thought #32100963: *although I would though* My bf still sorta sucks in bed...goes up and down but not all in the right ways...Im gonna cheat on him with a bunch of girls.....GIANT COOTER ORGY DAMNIT!!!!



*end rant*

SportsWriter2
08-04-2005, 04:12 PM
My bf still sorta sucks in bed...goes up and down but not all in the right ways...Im gonna cheat on him with a bunch of girls....

You could have Rafael Palmeiro on Viagra until the end of next week. He's hit 569 home runs, 18 more than Derek. ;)

Richard_Head
08-04-2005, 05:33 PM
Wow, just 4 days between this:

Woe is me....at least I have Jack in the Box, a fast vibrator, and a bunch of cash to soothe. I wish it was a SCJ gangbang though! :'(
and this:

Well, I took care of my friend AND got the A-S-S later from boytoy. Now off to make some gambling money for Vegas tomorrow. Yeah baby!
I really feel for all of you beautiful women out there :'(.

FBR
08-04-2005, 05:48 PM
RH lesson learned :P Its all about the entertainment value ;)

FBR

mr_punk
08-04-2005, 06:51 PM
Well, they could be from New Jersey, but it's not generally considered feminist.really? given the type of women i've met from jersey. i would have thought the feminist supreme headquarters was located there.

Yes. Precisely.now, that's sick. you know, i always knew something was weird about you canadians. for the most part, we may speak the same language, look the same, but i always thought there was something not quite right about them. i mean, outside of the fact that your country government is an amalgamation of a borderline commie pinko state and SoCal liberalism.

It's closer to quarter past eight. And her name is Remy. If I were forced to get up at 5.00 AM I think that I would feel an inherent camaraderie with everyone else who was up with me. Like "Good morning. Doesn't this suck?"i find people like that sickening in the morning. i'll bet you say that while being all nice, cheery and polite.

The fact that it is written by a woman doesn't make it feminist, and generally books written about how to make men like you are not terribly feminist. The feminist books say: "Nonsense! Men already like you" or "Fuck men! Who the fuck cares what men like anyway!"really? but don't those books in some way promote the idea of women taking control or defining themselves rather than letting the patriarchy do it for them. sort of like that dove soap ad with the fat broads or the old, "we're fierce, we're feminist, we're in your face" or "i am woman, hear me roar" empowerment type slogans that one usually hears from feminists?

And... "minions" - what DO you think I am doing with these guys?oh, the usual 'Manchurian Candidate' type stuff that any organization bent on world domination does. you drug them and put them into the trunk of a car and send them off to supreme feminist headquarters to a "re-education" camp. the next thing the guy knows. he wakes up completely shaven of hair and strapped naked to a chair. he's wearing ear phones and his eyelids are taped open and alligator clips connected to a car battery are attached to his nipples and scrotum for negative reinforcement training. he's been surgically implanted with an experimental estrogen type gland/computer chip and is forced to watch the oxygen network and lifetime channel while listening to NOW speeches and other feminist propaganda. you know, the usual...

Unfortunately upstairs is largely populated with teenaged girls who insist that feminists are ugly women who are just jealous of strippers. You know - "grrl power" instead of "grrrl power". It's less frustrating than just depressing.didn't you know..it's a rule that every woman who's not a stripper or has an issue with strippers must be jealous because the stripper looks better than them. must be some kind of chick thing.

Well, she found one eventually. It just took a while. Does that change the story at all?yes...i'm thinking that guy must have been really, really loaded. i mean, you probably could stick a celery stalk in a pint of his plasma and call it a bloody mary.

Okay. Stop trying to make me have sex with my customers.no, that wasn't my intention. i was just trying to point out that physical atttraction or in the case with Tascha..lots and lots of booze, a blindfold and paper bag over her head, can play a significant role for males and casual sex.

Wow, just 4 days between this:
and this:
I really feel for all of you beautiful women out there:'(yes, it must have been quite a harrowing ordeal for her:'(. LOL...russian women.....biggest drama queens in the world.

FBR
08-04-2005, 07:06 PM
yes, it must have been quite a harrowing ordeal for her:'(. LOL...russian women.....biggest drama queens in the world.

1940 (or was it 1941..cant remember) with the blitzkreig and all earns Kat an automatic hall pass

FBR

KC Joe
08-04-2005, 07:48 PM
Well, I took care of my friend AND got the A-S-S later from boytoy. Now off to make some gambling money for Vegas tomorrow. Yeah baby!

Did he make you cum?