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laplover69
08-17-2005, 05:36 PM
yeah, but the customers who get exploited this way are typically not the ones looking to exploit. they're the ones who hear lines like "I don't look at you as a customer, I'd like to be friends outside" and believe them, and think they might have found a friend/potential relationship. these guys tend NOT to be the guys who are trying to get "extras". the "extras" guys tend to see it as a strictly mercenary transaction.

the saps who get duped are the loney guys who crave any sort of female affection, not the ones who are looking to exploit someone.

Unfortunately this is often true... Bottom line harsh realities are that customers usualy can't "trust" dancers OTC, & dancers can't usually "trust" customers OTC. The stereotypes and "labels" attatched to each party that meet at a SC are typically too hard to overcome for a long term meaningful "relationship", but I have seen it happen on occasion. Short term or MUTUAL play for pay this is a different story.

Phil-W
08-17-2005, 08:27 PM
Bottom line harsh realities are that customers usualy can't "trust" dancers OTC, & dancers can't usually "trust" customers OTC. The stereotypes and "labels" attatched to each party that meet at a SC are typically too hard to overcome for a long term meaningful "relationship", but I have seen it happen on occasion.

If dancer and custy are genuinely interested in an OTC friendship or relationship then money rapidly drops out of the equation all together. If there's money attached to an OTC relationship then one or other party is pursuing their own agenda. Either the dancer is out to make $$$'s, or the custy is a PL/RIL trying to buy the dancers affection.

Give you a classic example of a dancer's dilemma though. One dancer is quite literally pursued from booking to booking by a customer who's most definately a RIL. The dancer doesn't give him any encouragement but, although privately uncomfortable with the scale of his attentions, she doesn't discourage him either - the lap dances he regularly buys represent a significant share of her income.

Her attitude towards him can be summed up as follows: "I will always be professionally polite to him and devote part of my working time to him because he treats me with respect, but I will always try and get him to understand that my relationship with him is a business one, and will never move OTC. Providing I do these things, then I will not discourage him from spending money on me - I've laid out my ground rules."

Phil.

Katrine
08-17-2005, 09:07 PM
I don't play regulars. The most I might do is promise a customer I might meet him OTC, get his number, and never call. I've also given my business cell out to custys and they never end up calling me as well. If I'm going to meet someone OTC, I will do it for a set amount of money and time. Of course, I have a regular that I've gone out to eat with, but I consider him a friend as well. He knows exactly where he stands.

I don't play that "take me shopping and I might give up the ass" game. Perhaps its because I've never been asked. I am more a "porn-star experience" stripper than a "girlfriend-experience" dancer anyway.

And yes, I was expoited many times early on. But karma's a bitch. ;)

Bridgette
08-17-2005, 09:21 PM
Yeah, I don't play the reg game either, too much hassle as far as I'm concerned. But I really have a hard time feeling sorry for the guys who get "played" by girls when they're in a strip club looking for a gf ::)

Ana_217
08-17-2005, 09:31 PM
By the same token sectum, the girls who get exploited are not usually the ones trying to exploit - although they probably LEARN to exploit custies AFTER being exploited themselves. This business isn't for the faint of heart.

Woweeee, this is about the way I learned. No, don't feel sorry for me.
I could just kck myself.

But do I feel guilty now about exploiting customers? No, not a bit.

They never felt guilty about doing me, why should I?

Different game, different situation. Forewarned is to be forearmed.

Knowlege is power, baby!

Luke34
08-18-2005, 07:03 AM
I think this is a business like any other... Every business entertains its valued clients. In my line of work we invite clients to drinks, send tickets to the opera, invite them to corporate boxes for the sporting events, take them out to dinner. Some of these clients are great company, whereas there are others we just have to bear up with. But we play them all....

I think a far worse option is not to be played at all... that would be sooo boring...

Sectumsempra
08-18-2005, 07:15 AM
By the same token sectum, the girls who get exploited are not usually the ones trying to exploit - although they probably LEARN to exploit custies AFTER being exploited themselves. This business isn't for the faint of heart.

good point. in fact it probably applies to all male/female relationships, not just strippers...

cause in the "real world" you have the golddiggers looking for a guy to rope into marriage and then stop putting out, cheat on the guy with every alpha male bad boy that comes along, and eventually divorce him and take half his money for the rest of his life...

...and the guys who always degrade/cheat on/beat their women but keep em coming back by promising to change...

Princess Sex
08-18-2005, 07:43 AM
I never believe anyone who says they're going to change because I know I wouldn't change. And I don't care for money or material possessions as I have everything I want. Except a nice cock to while away these lonely nights *wist*

stant
08-18-2005, 07:46 AM
If dancer and custy are genuinely interested in an OTC friendship ....

Phil, you forgot to mention you have several dancers as OTC friends.

Let the band play on....


divorce him and take half his money for the rest of his life...
Thank the dear lord this is bullshit.

dlabtot
08-18-2005, 07:51 AM
Phil, you forgot to mention you have several dancers as OTC friends.

http://anarchy.soak.net/smileys/rofl.gif

laplover69
08-18-2005, 08:38 AM
I also have several "platonic friendships" with dancers OTC. Do I want more than that from some of them? SURE, do I have real feelings for some of them and not just LUST?-SURE. The key thing here is that I know where I stand most of the time with all of these gals. It usually complicates my friendships enormously when my "feelings" get too involved. A platonic friendship with dancers you have genuine feelings for is somewhat of an oxymoron and one of the more complicated struggles to deal with on a day to day basis.

dlabtot
08-18-2005, 08:41 AM
I also have several "platonic friendships" with dancers OTC. Do I want more than that from some of them? SURE, do I have real feelings for some of them and not just LUST?-SURE. The key thing here is that I know where I stand most of the time with all of these gals. It usually complicates my friendships enormously when my "feelings" get to involved. A platonic friendship with dancers you have genuine feelings for is somewhat of an oxymoron and one of the more complicated struggles to deal with on a day to day basis.
http://anarchy.soak.net/smileys/banghead.gif

yoda57us
08-18-2005, 09:16 AM
I also have several "platonic friendships" with dancers OTC. Do I want more than that from some of them? SURE, do I have real feelings for some of them and not just LUST?-SURE. The key thing here is that I know where I stand most of the time with all of these gals. It usually complicates my friendships enormously when my "feelings" get too involved. A platonic friendship with dancers you have genuine feelings for is somewhat of an oxymoron and one of the more complicated struggles to deal with on a day to day basis.

Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and moved on...
Dude, let me simplify it for you. If you haven't gotten any by now you aren't going to.

laplover69
08-18-2005, 09:17 AM
BTW some of the dancers I am "platonic friends" with ITC and OTC do PLAY REGULARS on a consistent basis. Does it meet my approval-HELL NO, has it created problems for them where violence was threatened against them becuae their "REGULARS" or just customers felt used and jaded-YES, BTW NO SEX involved OTC or ITC just shopping, dinner, etc...Thankfully nothing serious has happened -YET. Do I constantly tell them they are asking for SERIOUS trouble if they continue to do this-YES- but it goes on deaf ears (they have to constantly change their cell phone #'s because they 'PLAY" several customers)...Are these the dancers that I have genuine feelings for other than lust-NO!; but I do enjoy their company and would protect them to the best of my ability if anything bad was to happen to them even though they know they are taking tremendous risks and being quite deceitful IMHO.

laplover69
08-18-2005, 09:30 AM
Originally Posted by yoda57us
Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and moved on...
Dude, let me simplify it for you. If you haven't gotten any by now you aren't going to.



I pretty much have resigned myself to this reality with most of them, but I still enjoy being their "platonic friend"....The others are fairly new "friendships", will wait and see a couple of months... BTW what's the T-shirt say? HA

threlayer
08-18-2005, 12:47 PM
Why is this any different from spending/losing a lot of money in a casino or in the Lottery? The fantasy is that you're going to hit it big is just as elusive.

Still just enough people get what they are after that some of the others think it could be them too.

Then maybe the smarter ones look at it like a passtime that costs money and gives the illusion of a buried treasure.

In spite of that I myself could never work in a venture that had similar chances of financial deception.

Jessica
08-18-2005, 01:21 PM
Everyone who enters a SC should be grown up enough to be responsible for the results of their involvement. Like when you enter a casino you are out to break the bank, they are out to break you. The casino is not responsible for your level of maturity and you are not theirs.

Everyone should realize the consequence of their actions whether they are the player or the played. It's just one tough lesson you have to learn in life.:'(

GiselleQ
08-18-2005, 02:21 PM
You get what you negotiate. Not what you or anybody thinks you deserve.
Let's talk some trade, pardner.

laplover69
08-19-2005, 07:42 AM
Why is this any different fro mspending/losing a lot of money in a casino or in the Lottery? The fantasy is that you're going to hit it big is just as elusive.

Still just enough people get what they are after that some of the others think it could be them too.

Then maybe the smarter ones look at it like a passtime that costs money and gives the illusion or a buried treasure.

In spite of that I myself could never work in a venture that had similar chances of financial deception.


The obvious main difference is were dealing with "feelings" and or deception for human beings instead of some Casino or Lottery... As for strictly confining this to a risk/reward analogy, I would say the odds are similiar when you compare winnings at a Lottery/Casino to that of finding a "keeper" at a SC. 8)

laplover69
08-20-2005, 02:32 PM
Never fall in love with a Stripper

Part 1-The Encounter

Never fall in love with a stripper son, she's sure to break your
heart.
You'll end up in a coiled web and soon be torn apart.
Her beauty is amazing, her soul it shines intense, her body is a work
of art from which there's no defense.

She'll captivate you with desire; you'll lose your way it seems,
Her pleasantries engulf your thoughts and permeate your dreams.
Imagination running wild, each step she closer moves,
Her eyes enchanting meet yours in fire; she closes on your grove.

The sensuality extreme, the eros so sublime
She welcomes you into her world, a fantasy in time.
She'll placate all your questions, advise you in return,
"You are the only one for her", your passion starts to burn.

Enveloped by her glory, enchantedly demure,
Anticipation takes control and spins a deadly lure.
The club is closing quickly you realize your fate,
You better make your move real quick; it's getting much too late.

You've spent eight hundred dollars, perhaps a little more,
You need two questions answered before you close the door.
What is your real name my dear, and what pray tell your number?
You wait for her polite reply while stifling your "hunger."

"My real name is Vicki*, my number is right here,
I'd love to see you real soon, from me there's none to fear"
"I'll call you in a short time", I state in timid voice,
"I'll take you out to dinner, and you can make the choice."



Part 2

Ouch

Lunches, dinners, shopping, and times spent tenderly,
You really feel you love this girl; she fills your heart with glee.
You've never met a gem like this; you'll never so again,
She's nice, she's warm, she's confident and soon you wonder when?

When will her lips and yours first meet, when will the dream unfold?
When will your bodies meet entwined suffice ecstatic goal?
You need to know, you need to ask, the fever is unkempt,
"Do I mean anything to her or should I now repent?"

And so with courage, truth and hope you pose the query thus,
Do I mean anything to you and what is all this fuss?
"Do you mean anything to me? She whispers in you ear"?
Of course you do you silly boy why else would I be here?

"I now can pay my car loan, my boyfriend's Visa card,
I never need go to a store, not even out my yard."
"You're such a nice and humble guy; you've given me so much,
And all I ever had to give was skin for you to touch.

"I thought you knew this business, I thought you knew the game,
There is nothing of real in this it all is very plain."
"You mean the world to me kind man; it's ALL by my design,
I thank you very much my dear, my little dollar sign!"

Part 3

Epilogue

I still recall our moments, illusions manifold,
and how I let my honest heart refuse to be so cold.
I thought she really liked me, perhaps a hint of love,
I used to think she's heaven sent, an angel from above.

Reality is stark my friend, and sometimes hard to find.
But one thing that I've learned from this, sweet strippers make us
blind.
So take my words to heart; Believe! And stop a sec to think,
Is what you feel, the real thing, or brought on by 6 drinks.

Have fun, enjoy, partake of life, be in control of you
And never let a stripper in, because they are like glue.
Never fall in love with a stripper son, she'll always break your heart
You'll always be her ATM at whom she'll aim her dart!

Femmes Fatales
08-21-2005, 04:01 AM
A cop may feel bad for having to arrest someone.
Ideally he's just doing his job and so are dancers .
Just in any relationship where the man spends money of a women there's no guarantee of anything else.


Most of these customers no the game and the risk that are involved and choose to risk it.
Allot of them just enjoy spending the time and playing big spender.


It's not easy to have a beautiful woman to talk to so he is getting something for their money.
As with cops there are good cops and bad cops.


Most dancers I know are compassionate people and are love to be taken out to places and have money spent on them.


Just as in all relationships people are not happy with the out come.


Remember these men have made the choice the dancer did not hold the gun to their head.


But as some dancers comment it's to big a hassle and also don't want the bad karma that could come for be mean!

Do unto OTHERS, as you would do to yourself.

People think it's so easy being a dancer. Let them do it for a while and than see what they say then!;)

Foxey
08-21-2005, 12:47 PM
That poem was awesome. If you wrote that you should pursue your talent and write more, and by all means post it here.

goo321
08-23-2005, 09:15 PM
i think the classic story is anna nicole smith who married the old guy and left the city the same day.

hrb0
10-08-2005, 10:02 AM
First impressions are important. It starts as a fantasy relationship. Seldom has either party truly respected the other. Most dancers that I know do not respect the guys that tip them. The guys certainly are not showing respect to someone if they want to trade money for their time and favors. Not exactly the best way to start a relationship. If a regular has been around the SC scene for very long then he should know how things work. I realize that there are people who start to let the fantasy blend in with reality. That is when problems could occur. Dancers have to walk a fine line between keeping the fantasy alive and leading someone on. It would probably be best if someone is a regular to have a conversation from time to time to make sure that everyone is one the same page. As long as both people know what to expect it should make things much smoother.

Sleepy
10-09-2005, 11:42 AM
This thread just made me think of something. How many dancers out there work in a workplace that *tells* them to make regular customers and milk them for cash? How many places have a set of secret "rules" on how to get more dances from a customer, to get their customer's phone number and call them in when it isn't busy, etc. I'm just wondering how common it is.

moonlite
10-09-2005, 02:30 PM
Hey everyone!
I am having so much fun on this page this days, since I injured my ancle and I got nothing else to do. I just discoverd this page so I am reading everything past, present, interesting. But this one I have a strong opinion on.
You se not everyone who comes in there is a bad boy, but not everyone is inocent either.
You see dancers are not all that bad, but we most probably have more experince in dealing with men, then regular girls.Thats why some guys have so much to say. They can't always deal with them. But than, if your honest at least I think I speak for most of us, we wont s...w noone over. If there is one or two, who would, there is bed and good everywhere. If your honest I am honest too. You know dancing is bussiness, you don't complain paying entrance, when you are coming to the club, so why am I bad trying to get a dance from you. You know I am working.You should respect me just as much as you respect any other bussiness you enter too. When, it comes to inccidents of people being s...wed over is ussually becouse guy don't put cards on the table. So those few men who think they gonna come into a club and try to trick me whith the stories abaut how good do I look and that they want to invite me for a dinner or whathewrer and acctually mean sex, but not saying it straight,because they belive that instead of putting price on which would most probably be higher than a dinner or shopping they reathear try to be smart. I don't go for that. I also don' meet anyone outside. But girls who do that I strognly belive are just caughting this men into their on games and when they realize they spent more money than they expected than they feel sorry for themselwes. Sorry, but you invited me for a dinner! I expect you pay for it too. Sex was never mentioned. So why should I do it.

RedZ28
10-09-2005, 10:00 PM
The best way to look at the customer/stripper relationship is that both of you are providing each other with what you need. A customer gets entertained by a beautiful woman and in exchange the stripper gets paid for her time and skill at making him believe that she is enjoying what she is doing. A typical stripper interacts with hundreds if not thousands of clients each year. She's probably heard whatever cheesy pick-up line that you're attempting to use on her way too many times. So let her do her job, enjoy the short time you spend with her and go home to your girlfriend/wife/whatever. Anyone that thinks that they will be "buying" anything more than friendship with OTC meals, shopping sprees, etc. is severely deluded.

BrittaneeDreame
10-16-2005, 03:19 PM
people are so crazy these days, u never know what they are gunna do. So becareful.

lvdancer
10-17-2005, 12:53 AM
Just like any place there are people looking to take advantage of people. These are usually the weak untalented and unprofessional people. A good stripper can afford to do her own shopping and dosent need to lead a guy on. I know I never have done anything like what you discribe, to anyone. I believe in karma. Ive notived a lot of girls that shouldnt be strippers, casue they suck, need to LIE or they would never make any money, they think thats how it works. I would not want to hurt any ones feelings or have some guy I didnt like bugging me. I also have found myself attracted to a guy and believed all the nice things he said only to see him 5 minutes later saying the same thing to someone else. Guys do it to us too!

skanklover
10-17-2005, 01:14 PM
Actually I always felt that as a man I was taking advantage and not the other way around. I am very respectful in clubs, and to women in general, but felt that getting the attention of a beautiful sexy girl or girls for a few minutes in that kind of environment was a bargain for the price. To qualify, where else can you get this kind of entertainment? Nobody likes to be taken advantage of anywhere but it happens in life and not just in clubs.

I felt guilty for a while with one dancer I knew well becuase knowing she is married I still came in and got dances from her. It was like she was sharing herself with me in an intimate way for what seemed like small change...and even though I knew she was going home with my money so some other guy could bang her...I still felt that what I was getting was worth more than the money I gave her. She gave me a piece of herself for an hour or so each time I saw her...and it was my time, I owned it...and it was intimate, even if just for me. And she "acted" in a way that I would never even consider letting my SO do for any amount of money.

adelle-icious
10-17-2005, 09:33 PM
I'd never tell a guy that I'd sleep with him or that I want an OTC relationship with him just to get his money. If he offered money and gifts in exchange for that, I'd say no. But if he offered those things without asking for that, I'm going to accept, no matter WHAT he's secretly thinking.

Most customers see me as a sexy toy/object. I see them as ATMs. It's the only way to get by in this business, is to not get too emotionally attached to it. You don't have sex with ATMs, you get money from them! If a custy wants to spend money on me, that's his role in the customer/dancer relationship. It's my role to take it. It's not leading them on if they don't make requests, and you don't give promises. 8)

bigteninch
10-21-2005, 08:45 AM
fuck us, it's a job not a clinic.

TROU8LE~
10-21-2005, 10:21 AM
no offense but some men deserve to be played. and if I can make good money doing just that so be it.
I completly agree with this statement.....

dlabtot
10-21-2005, 10:42 AM
no offense but some men deserve to be played. and if I can make good money doing just that so be it.
I completly agree with this statement.....

When I read amy's statement, the word 'some' seems to imply that there are also men who don't 'deserve' it.

Which leads to the question, what are the characteristics of a customer that can be discovered in the context of the SC that tell you this guy 'deserves' it? Is it simply a matter of being gullible enough to be played? Or is it a type of moral judgement you make about the customer?

Deogol
10-21-2005, 03:36 PM
When I read amy's statement, the word 'some' seems to imply that there are also men who don't 'deserve' it.

Which leads to the question, what are the characteristics of a customer that can be discovered in the context of the SC that tell you this guy 'deserves' it? Is it simply a matter of being gullible enough to be played? Or is it a type of moral judgement you make about the customer?

Not to mention there are some dancers who deserve to be played.

threlayer
10-24-2005, 09:18 AM
SC customers need to know, or be reminded in the club, that there is a difference between volunteering for a sexual fantasy and being played for one. I think some can't tell the difference, and it is those misguided souls who do things like stalking, offering OTC money etc.

I don't think anyone deserves to be tricked/played, but clubs ought to have a prominent sign stating something like 'we sell erotic fantasies only, not sex'.

vegasbebe
10-27-2005, 01:23 PM
I don't know what kind of shit your friend was doing to her customers, so I can't say wether she should have felt guilty or not... but it sounds kind of fucked up that she felt bad by not giving up sex just because somebody took her shopping!!

When a customer gives me money, or takes me shopping, he wants to do that because he knows that's what it takes to get my time and attention.

What's wrong with that?

I think it's fine to take whatever someone wants to give you as long as

A. You're not promising them that you're going to date them/fuck them if they do x, y, and z for you.

B. You know they can afford to give what they're giving. I would let some rich guy take me out to go shopping, but I would not let some poor guy spend his paycheck on new shoes for me.

doc-catfish
10-27-2005, 01:33 PM
When a customer gives me money, or takes me shopping, he wants to do that because he knows that's what it takes to get my time and attention.

What's wrong with that?

Well for starters... ::)

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1026053hull1.html

You know I thought that I was going to have to link to that article someday, just not so soon.

Jenny
10-27-2005, 02:20 PM
Okay - just to be fair, the suit is in place because the woman falsely represented things, not because the guy gave her money. She told him she had cancer and needed money to pay for chemo and implants. Just a point.

doc-catfish
10-27-2005, 03:35 PM
Okay - just to be fair, the suit is in place because the woman falsely represented things, not because the guy gave her money. She told him she had cancer and needed money to pay for chemo and implants. Just a point.
I was merely trying to show that when one plays the wrong person that there may be some potentially expensive consequences for their actions, even if legally speaking you are 100% in the right. Caveat venditor.

I'm sure there are a few guys out there who do this because they have a provider complex that needs to be attended to, but I still say that the majority of guys who pamper dancers with lavish OTC gifts and the like have an ulterior motive in doing it. Namely using the lavish presents as leverage to either buy or bed the object of their affection.

hamletsdead
10-27-2005, 07:21 PM
Interesting thread. I can't say I am exactly a frequent flyer when it comes to going to strip clubs, and most of the time I spent in them historically was in connection with bachelor parties when I was in my 20s and early 30s, but from a couple of recent forays it seems pretty clear that times, and the clubs, have changed quite a bit. When I was in Chicago in the mid-90s, most of the clubs had a hands-off rule that, if violated, would get you thrown out in a heartbeat. In San Francisco, then and now, that has never been the case, and depending on where you go, and which girl you are with, it's a relatively simple matter to get more than a lap dance. Men who pay for and receive "extras" presumably know that they are paying for what they're getting, but when the fantasy of sex becomes reality inside the club, there are always going to be guys who want more of that outside the club, and there will always be some women who are willing to do that. Some guys will be willing to pay for it, others will have a head trip and want a relationship. Sex, after all, does things to people's ability to think clearly. If you have a regular client and you fool around with him inside the club, and you start seeing him outside the club, it seems to me the chances of it getting messy are high. And if you have a regular who keeps coming to see you and you start seeing him outside on some false assumption (perhaps just on his part) that there is going to be more to the relationship, the dangers of misunderstandings are probably even higher. Being smart, well-heeled, and attractive does not necessarily imply emotional stability -- there are lots of guys out there who are successful in business and are emotional idiots, not only with their wives and families, but with strippers too. And plenty of guys who engage in the willing suspension of disbelief while in a strip club will be in a vastly different state in the outside world, particularly if they now know your real name, where you live, what you've told them about yourself, your pet's name etc. and you start hanging out together. Even if it's a bit of an overgeneralization, grown-up men generally don't hang out with women as just friends, so unless the "just friends" part is made clear, why would you ever think that this guy simply derives pleasure in buying lavish gifts for you?

Most of the strippers I've ever liked weren't just physically attractive, but were attractive because they were interesting to talk to -- they were funny, frank, and open about a lot of things. There wasn't any hidden agenda, or any kind of uncomfortable first-date-conversation, because there was simply no reason to play silly games. I imagine a lot of successful guys find it equally stimulating to strip away the veneer of day-to-day conversations and sit down and talk to a mostly-naked strange woman about whatever they feel like because they don't get to do it in real life. In real life they have to go through all the ritual steps to get there, if they're lucky, so it's refreshing to cut right to the chase and talk to someone who has heard a million airbags full of b.s. without any beating around the bush. I imagine it's fairly common for guys to romanticize the situation, unrealistically for the most part, but sometimes not. While guys who go into clubs looking for girlfriends are not making the wisest of bets -- particularly if they aren't attractive themselves -- sometimes interesting people run into each other in funny places.

Apologies for running on so long. First post-itis, I guess.