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sexymomma
05-18-2006, 05:24 AM
These "old days" before "extras" existed - does anyone really believe in this? Seriously - I've been dancing a long, long time (and I know that does not necessarily make me particularly bright, but it does mean that I have wide experience). I have never seen these guys who spend "whatever it takes" in quantity. I have never seen guys, or girls NOT pushing the envelope. Granted, what was being pushed was a little different 10 years ago (although not as much as you might think), but the bitterness and acrimony was identical. 10 years ago I thought that the girls fixated on how the extras girls were ruining their money were bitter and jealous and they tended to label every girl who made more than them with that brush. Now, I pretty much think the same thing. Like I appreciate how "extras" - a slippery term in itself - can make work less... palatable. But I think you have to own the aspect of personal convenience in there - like everyone should function on MY comfort level so that I can make the most money - instead of turning it into a principle - like those whores should be out on a street corner.
It has nothing to do with comfort level Jenny, if your giving your customers hand jobs, blow jobs,sex etc. You are being a prostitute and yes you do belong on the corner or at a whore house! And to anyone who says that the customers are not being pleased by the sight of a beautiful woman doing a sexy strip tease in front of them has obviously let men take advantage of her body and her mind. The only reason for them thinking they can get extras is because they have been in contact with a dancer who has let themselves be controled by some sleaze ball who probably made her feel like she wasnt worth shit unless she gave him what he wanted. And then she believes it is the only way a guy will spend any money. And honestly are these girls really making that much more because in my experience a guy that wants that little extra something will spend that 30 or 40 bucks or whatever a b.j is going for these days and once he is satisfied he's usually done and out the door. It just isnt worth it , these girls have major head problems. >:(

DJ Maimed
05-18-2006, 09:29 AM
When others actions can have life altering consequences screw that polite B.S.!! During the course of shift how many dancers puffed on my cigarette or snuck a sip of my cocktails?? My point being that while as Trouble says it can be like a family in a club, I wouldn't want to catch something because of someone elses digusting habits!

miabella
05-18-2006, 10:15 AM
it's not that extras girls make more money necessarily, it is that there are a lot more of them period BECAUSE there are so many more dancers. now that clubs rely in many instances on dancer housefees instead of customer spending, and now that there are tons of clubs, things get 'competitive'. and for plenty of girls who put on a great stage performance and see no tips for it, but those same guys suddenly have 200 for some sex act(s), doing the sex acts looks like a winning proposition over 'just dances'.

doc-catfish
05-18-2006, 10:18 AM
Both deserved to be ragged on. The question "as long as it is legal what is the problem?" is not valid unless people are actually paying attention to it. I believe that a good customer AND "performer" would be responsible enough to research the laws...codes...ect that exist for that specific state club.
This is utterly silly. Patrons of restauraunts and hotels aren't obliged to see if those businesses are in compliance with laws and codes, now are they? I also don't think that patrons of music clubs/bars don't really care if their favorite establishment is compliant with ASCAP/BMI policies.

The fact is, I'm not paying for a cover charge and overpriced drinks for the priveledge of playing referree. That's someone else's job. Its not my fault if they aren't doing it, or worse yet are deliberately encouraging the rule breaking. The day it becomes my responsibility to research my local and state laws regarding strip clubs (or anything else for that matter) is the day I stop doing business with them.


i can extend that for customers and dancers that are even assisting in the dick to be veryyy CLOSE to cumming...these people act like they dont know the difference and they abuse the "subjectivity for each dancer" argument.. Come on now... i know both performers and custoemrs can tell when the line is being drawn its not as hard as people make it outto be! this pisses me off and people need to learn to come to terms with what they want to engage in.
So if I go into a dance expecting standard service, and the dancer starts giving me extras of some variety, am I supposed to stop her? Am I assisting in her trying to make me come if I don't?

Bella21
05-18-2006, 10:38 AM
But, if there's a bust and you're getting a dirty dance, wouldn't they take you in too?

Aleethia
05-18-2006, 10:45 AM
Sometimes a girl will peform on only one guy: and then sometimes for everybody. Thats what makes this all the more hallarious. Just blame it on all the massage parlors and spas. Since they shut down the standard has plummmeted. This affects everybody.... Even your HOTTIES Have to lower themselves to accepting any thing they can get to pay therir bills. and with that how are you to expect a man to pay more for nothing when he can get IT for practicalyy nothing. Its not about self respect its about survival. and Hookers don't care. they want their money just the same as you. Its not a question about respect everyone has needs wants and desires. I'm not supporting them. The facts are facts and you deal with it.. and if its too much whatother choice is there. do you get out or conform?

TROU8LE~
05-18-2006, 12:00 PM
Sometimes a girl will peform on only one guy: and then sometimes for everybody. Thats what makes this all the more hallarious. Just blame it on all the massage parlors and spas. Since they shut down the standard has plummmeted. This affects everybody.... Even your HOTTIES Have to lower themselves to accepting any thing they can get to pay therir bills. and with that how are you to expect a man to pay more for nothing when he can get IT for practicalyy nothing. Its not about self respect its about survival. and Hookers don't care. they want their money just the same as you. Its not a question about respect everyone has needs wants and desires. I'm not supporting them. The facts are facts and you deal with it.. and if its too much whatother choice is there. do you get out or conform?


I guess I chose respect over "conforming." Back in the day there were alot of respectful dancers. They werent just dancing.. only to "survive." Maybe a small percent were doing so. Compared to now! I decided to "survive" without conforming.. I guess because Ive been a dancer for so many years.. I knew how awsome it was before, back in tha day! So.. I would never "conform." to such a low point which I truly know I, and many other women do not deserve. -Conform?? SCREW THAT! You mine as well just pop a bullet in you head now simply because.. the ones who would "conform" themselves so low will probably find themselves at an HIV clinic testing positive sooner or later. . That word Conform makes me feel so Claustrophobic.. gives me chills down my spine! lol. But the gurls who are still true dancers.. I give ya mad respect. /:O

cinammonkisses
05-18-2006, 12:39 PM
That is until I overheard one of the girls in the booth next to me conducting her business. "35 dollars and you can finger fuck me" GROSS! They tend to monopolize the club when they come in. I make about 300 or 400 dollars less than before they came.

:spit: F*** that that is trifflin'!!! I'd be whopping some ass on that one! That is gross as hell.

Jenny
05-18-2006, 12:51 PM
but honestly, though, were there really a fraction so many girls dancing naked back in the day as there are now? there were a LOT fewer clubs even 10 years ago, you know?I don't know about the numbers of girls, but around here there aren't really many more clubs. Most of the same ones change ownership and management.

Sexymomma: all due respect, but I am going to beg to differ. Essentially there are streams - handjobs are too much, grinding just enough; grinding too much, blowing in his ear just enough, etc. That is ALL about comfort. Me, I'm in the grinding is just enough category myself. That is where I am comfortable. It would make work easier and more palatable for me if all girls were comfortable and maintained standards where I do, but there is this one girl in the club who wants to do one contact (where two way contact is the norm) and doubtless she would find it much easier if everyone conformed to her standards. I also, frankly, am offended at the use of the word "prostitute" or "whore" in a pejorative sense. I don't find it empowering, or even acceptable, to institute a sub-culture hierchy of sexual mores and morals - at least not in the sense that is frequently done here. I understand a feeling of "Oh, for crying out loud" when a dancer (or prostitute if you prefer - in the neutral sense of the word) is "giving it away" - that is doing what I define as too much for too little, insofar as I agree it creates a race to the bottom (I feel the same way about girls doing 2fers etc.). But I do think it is difficult, both conceptually and practically to define the difference between what THEY are doing and what WE (or I, I suppose) are doing outside of I want them to do what I want.

doc-catfish
05-18-2006, 04:11 PM
But, if there's a bust and you're getting a dirty dance, wouldn't they take you in too?
Depending on the laws of the particular jurisdiction, its certainly possible.

Of course, in some jurisdictions any dance would be considered a dirty dance. The only way to avoid being busted completely would be to not show up at all.

Have some of you perhaps considered, its the very laws regulating your clubs that help extras flourish there? For example:

Say your jurisdiction has a three foot rule in place. So if a dancer there would be:

1. Giving handjobs or blowjobs...she's commiting prostitution (duh).
2. Dry humping a customer until he comes...she's commiting prostitution.
3. Gives the customer any sort of contact dance...she's commiting prostitution.
4. Gives the customer an airdance within the required 3 foot barrier...she's commiting prostitution.
5. Flashing any part of her anatomy that she's supposed to have covered, even from outside that 3 foot barrier...she's still commiting prostitution.

So the legal penalties for doing any of the above are equal, yet its quite obvious that there's a hell of lot more money to be made by doing #1, as opposed to #2, as opposed to #3, etc. etc.

I'm not condoning that in any way, but pretty much anywhere anymore, including a lot of places once known for low to near zero mileage, the price a dancer may have to pay for being 100% compliant with the laws in her area, may mean going home with Wal-Mart like earnings. If her co-workers decide not to follow suit, this is even more true.

smartcookie
05-18-2006, 04:23 PM
You're blaming the wrong people. It's a mercenary business. There have always been women willing to go the extra mile for money and men willing to pay for it. The responsibility lies with club management. If they decide to turn a blind eye to "extras" and the club is not in an area that tolerates such activity then they are the ones to be angry with.

Paris
05-18-2006, 04:40 PM
You're blaming the wrong people. It's a mercenary business. There have always been women willing to go the extra mile for money and men willing to pay for it. The responsibility lies with club management. If they decide to turn a blind eye to "extras" and the club is not in an area that tolerates such activity then they are the ones to be angry with.

And this comes down to EVERY club manager. If a sleezy club allows this junk to go on and profits enormously from it, then the less sleezy clubs will follow suit, despite their personal opinion of what is okay or not. The road to hell is paved with good intentions- meaning the club that sticks by their guns and does not allow the dancers to perform extras, will eventually be out of business if all the rest of the clubs in the region do allow their dancers to perform extras.

Have you noticed how many clubs have been on the market lately? Many club owners with scruples wish to get out while the corporate clubs are taking an Enronesque attitude of "I don't know anything about that." The CEOs of the corporate clubs have fall guys in the form of club management and the dancers themselves. All the prostitution that goes on in these clubs are "isolated incidents" blamed on the dancers and club managers, all the while pressuring the dancers to cough up more and more cash and pressuring the management to turn a blind eye as to how the dancers are coming up with those fees.

Just like with Enron, sooner or later the public is going to figure out that corporate policies are really what is behind the denegration of the industry as a whole, and there will be a collapse similar to the dot bomb.

Book mark this post and check back in late 2007. That is how much I think we are coming to the end of an era.

smartcookie
05-18-2006, 04:53 PM
And this comes down to EVERY club manager. If a sleezy club allows this junk to go on and profits enormously from it, then the less sleezy clubs will follow suit, despite their personal opinion of what is okay or not. The road to hell is paved with good intentions- meaning the club that sticks by their guns and does not allow the dancers to perform extras, will eventually be out of business if all the rest of the clubs in the region do allow their dancers to perform extras.

Have you noticed how many clubs have been on the market lately? Many club owners with scruples wish to get out while the corporate clubs are taking an Enronesque attitude of "I don't know anything about that." The CEOs of the corporate clubs have fall guys in the form of club management and the dancers themselves. All the prostitution that goes on in these clubs are "isolated incidents" blamed on the dancers and club managers, all the while pressuring the dancers to cough up more and more cash and pressuring the management to turn a blind eye as to how the dancers are coming up with those fees.

Just like with Enron, sooner or later the public is going to figure out that corporate policies are really what is behind the denegration of the industry as a whole, and there will be a collapse similar to the dot bomb.

Book mark this post and check back in late 2007. That is how much I think we are coming to the end of an era.

The sky has been falling since I first found a stripper message board in early 2001. I don't mean to make light of your undoubtedly well founded frustrations. But "gentleman's clubs" as we understand them are really a product of the nineties. Prior to that there was no differentation between strippering and prostitution; it was just a matter of venue. Ask anyone who is a veteran of the old Times Square in New York or the Combat Zone in Boston.

I don't necessarily think that a club that enforces rules is destined to fail in an area with lax supervision in regards to extras. I can think of a few example that survive by appealing to the travelling businessman. Where they ultimately fail is business strategy and basic principles of retail. In retail you never have too much inventory on the floor at any time as it works against sales. Witness all the clubs where dancers outnumber customers 3:1. Not smart.

Paris
05-18-2006, 05:17 PM
The sky has been falling since I first found a stripper message board in early 2001. I don't mean to make light of your undoubtedly well founded frustrations. But "gentleman's clubs" as we understand them are really a product of the nineties. Prior to that there was no differentation between strippering and prostitution; it was just a matter of venue. Ask anyone who is a veteran of the old Times Square in New York or the Combat Zone in Boston.

I don't necessarily think that a club that enforces rules is destined to fail in an area with lax supervision in regards to extras. I can think of a few example that survive by appealing to the travelling businessman. Where they ultimately fail is business strategy and basic principles of retail. In retail you never have too much inventory on the floor at any time as it works against sales. Witness all the clubs where dancers outnumber customers 3:1. Not smart.

You are totally right. But we are seeing for the first time mainstream corporate ownership of stripclubs. In the past the strip clubs have been either mom and pop operations or fronts for mob activity (up to and including prostitution). That is new. Who would have thought 20 years ago strip clubs would sell stock? I think that started in 1998 or 1999.

And most of the dancers who are involved today in the business are unaccustomed to the level of prostitution that is making a come back. All we need is one well placed class action suit against those corporate club chains, and the industry will have a very bright light shone on it's underbelly. Big corporations are an easy target for ridicule, so showing that big corporations are "forcing" their dancers to commit prostitution would be a wild media frenzy in the post Iraq war days.

The only reason why it has gotten this far is because Americans have bigger fish to fry. But we are begining to exit Iraq, and as the media needs something sensational to bring in the ratings. The Duke LaCrosse rape case is a perfect example. College students get raped on campus regularly, but this case has gotten national (and international) media coverage because of the fact that the alleged rapists are RICH and it involves a black stripper (sex and racism, all make for great media ratings!!).

I'm not saying that stripping or strip clubs are going away, I'm saying that things are changing, and rapidly. The stripper is a huge part of our entertainment culture today, so there is no way that she will disappear. But I believe that her job is going to change drastically (again).

Paris
05-18-2006, 05:30 PM
Prior to that there was no differentation between strippering and prostitution; it was just a matter of venue. Ask anyone who is a veteran of the old Times Square in New York or the Combat Zone in Boston.

There certainly was a difference. And just like today, there were clubs that were known to have hookers and clubs that were "clean" clubs. My Aunt used to dance at The Go-Go Rama back in the 70's, and she never turned tricks. That place was a whole different animal than it is today.

Any dancer reading this can think of what clubs in her area have hookers and which ones are "clean" clubs. That is how it is now, but the number of clubs that are "clean" are dwindling. When I first started dancing in 1998 the majority of the country had air dance clubs, now... Hmmm, most of the clubs offer at least some level of contact during the dances.

Clubs in Vegas in 1998, customers were tossed out for touching. How about now?? Anyone from Vegas care to comment?

Djoser
05-18-2006, 07:51 PM
I went to stripclubs in the late 80's and through the 90's, though never frequently, or as a regular by any means--it was an entirely different ballgame back then. Getting a BJ in the VIP, especially during the earler part of that time, was much more difficult (not that I ever tried) in part because there wasn't a VIP room...

I never went to a Times Square stripclub, but in my travels throughout the US saw a wide variety of them, and even if it was available, it wasn't anything like it is now.

And it is management's fault that they allow it, but having seen the rage and frustration of many a dancer, unable to make more than a pittance due to the rampant dicksucking going on 2 feet away from them, I can totally sympathize. I did stop one of them from beating the living shit out of a dicksucker in the dressing room, and I'd do it again, but if I were in her shoes, I might not want me to.

I also don't think we should totally exonerate the dancers who do this. I think they are also responsible for this trend which is making it an ever tougher business for clean dancers to survive and profit from.

Again I have nothing against prostitution, outside the clubs, and there's very little I can or will do when it was as rampant as it was in my last club--I'd like to keep my job, and furthermore the dancers trying to make it in this atmosphere need all the help they can get.

But it's not the managers down there on their knees in VIP, even if they are so selfish as to allow it to go on.

smartcookie
05-18-2006, 08:26 PM
It seems like what people are expecting is for customers who find a dancer propositiioning them to say to themselves, "Gosh this is so wrong. I could cause this club to be shut down and dancers to be thrown in jail or fired." People don't generally think of others unless they're faced with punitive measures. Similarly, a stripper who is comfortable with selling sexual acts is supposed to not think of her bottom line, but of her fellow strippers and club. As independent contractors who pay to work (and quite a lot) where is the incentive? Does the non employee club model not encourage an "every woman for herself" mentality?

I have to disagree that corporate club chains are responsible for the downfall of gentlemen's clubs everywhere. That may be one reason, but there are many others. "Extras" have taken hold in cities with little represation from Scores, Deja Vu, Spearmint Rhino, or Ricks.

There are many lines of work that have changed or been outphased due to downsizing outsourcing and corporate conglomeration...help desk jobs for example. There are many services that are no longer what they used to be: airlines and banking. Why is it that we see that as a necessary and acceptable part of modern times, but feel that the stripping/adult entertainment industry is somehow exempt from any and all change?

Optimist
05-18-2006, 08:43 PM
At least for those companies that are downsized and outsource, they increase their profits. For clubowners--they reduce their profits. The handful of prostitutes sell instead of the larger crew of dancers selling, the better producing dancers leave for greener pastures, and less high spenders are replaced by the cum and run crowd.

Katrine
05-18-2006, 09:08 PM
I can think of a few example that survive by appealing to the travelling businessman. Where they ultimately fail is business strategy and basic principles of retail. In retail you never have too much inventory on the floor at any time as it works against sales. Witness all the clubs where dancers outnumber customers 3:1. Not smart.

It reminds me of malls these days. I walk into a store like Forever 21 and am overwhelmed by the jammed aisles of cheap slave-labor shit. I can't deal with it. I buy the first $15 slutty ho top I see and leave the mall asap. The shirt rips as as soon as I put it on at home so I can't return it. Then the shirt gives me the clap. Oops, did I take the analogy too far? }:D

Djoser
05-18-2006, 09:35 PM
That's good, lol...

It's true that expecting everyone to think of all the accompanying moral/ethical issues when they work in or patronize stripclubs is a lost cause, and living in a dream world.

The customers want their HJs and BJs, or maybe just a good grind. They'd love to meet outside of work, many of them, but that's human nature.

The dancers--both extras and non-extras girls (and there are some who occasionally cross the line, as well)--just want to make a buck.

The managers just want to make a buck, too. Though I too think they are the most guilty of having a shitty attitude, in general--certainly they are the only ones that could really stop it from happening regardless of the willingness or lack thereof on the part of consenting customers and dancers.

And all this is nothing new, if you read much history you'll find that lust and greed have been powerful motivators for a long time--especially when in combination as in our business.

Perhaps all this is inevitable--especially with the criminalization of stripping--a factor to blame as much as or more than managerial indiifference or greed. The more accustomed people are to seeing stripclubs around, and going to them, the more their going to want what guys want when they do--and the more certain elements are going to be willing to provide it.

Nonetheless, it is disturbing to me to think of the genuine misery of the women who enter the business thinking it will be so much fun to feel glamorous and sexy onstage, only to wind up feeling burned out and insulted so many nights.

What to do? Hell, I don't know--I just try to make it as much of a positive experience as I can, and believe it or not, an esthetic one, lol...

sexymomma
05-21-2006, 03:14 PM
i'm not saying that stripping or strip clubs are going away, I'm saying that things are changing, and rapidly. The stripper is a huge part of our entertainment culture today, so there is no way that she will disappear. But I believe that her job is going to change drastically (again).[/QUOTE]

Hello Paris. You seem like you are a very smart and experienced dancer. I am interested to hear how you think the strippers job is going to change drastically. If i was supposed to get that already,sorry, but i would like to hear your outlook on this.

Paris
05-21-2006, 03:38 PM
Hello Paris. You seem like you are a very smart and experienced dancer. I am interested to hear how you think the strippers job is going to change drastically. If i was supposed to get that already,sorry, but i would like to hear your outlook on this.

I'm not the only member here saying this kind of thing. Melonie and Tina both have been posting since the 90's about how the gap between super upscale clubs and sleezy extras clubs are taking over all markets. The middle of the road club is slowly being replaced with something closer to a normal night club. Young crowds, loud music, and the dancers are closer to a go-go show than a gentlemen's club.

The changes will force dancers to improve their stage shows (for the middle of the road clubs) or force girls into prostitution in the case of the sleezy clubs. The upscale clubs will move into the realm of both, offering "hostesses", who are basically high priced call girls, along with fancy stage shows on the floor. Canada already separates their table dance girls from their stage dancing girls, so why not in the US?

The neighborhood strip club will be a thing of the past. The customers know that with the click of a mouse they can discover what "services" are available at what club and from which dancer. So this leaves any dancer working today the option to step up her shows to more of a feature style show or be prepared to provide extras to keep her earnings at the present high (yet dwindling) levels.

Yor average looking girl that dancers at your average neighborhood topless bar is slowly going to be forced out of legal business due to lack of earnings.

azcustomer
05-21-2006, 05:57 PM
Paris, excellent points.

I was just thinking about the evolution of entertainment the other day. I wondered how long the old style stage dance clubs would continue to exist.

I watched my teenage step daughter and her friends all practice stage dance struts and stripper moves and decided not to stop them in fear of repressing their sexual feelings. They wanted to fantasize about being strippers, a sign that the demonization of strippers is fading.

In Phoenix, it is popular for college aged kids to give lap dances for their partners or friends and some are able to get away with it in smaller clubs. Of course, with these youngsters casual sex with someone you've just met is akin to a handshake. For those of us who are older, this may be offensive.

And some club managers are figuring this out and differentiating their clubs. Those catering to the businessman mandate gowns and enforce stricter rules than other clubs.

On the other hand, women who are in relationships are getting smarter. Those who used to refuse to go to clubs are now going. Is it necessarily to enjoy the show? No, it's to understand what their man is doing and what type of club he goes to. The traditional dancers and managers will be smart by marketing more to women.

When a woman proudly tells me she has gone or regularly goes to strip clubs, I alway ask if she gets dances or tips the stage dancers. I've noticed that a lot do not. I think this is in part due to them still not wanting to accept strip clubs or appreciate dancers. The crux of the problem is trying to break down that barrier and make those women enjoy the company of dancers.

One of the things I've noticed is some couples going to clubs and only the guy gets a dance or maybe the gal gets a dance but it's obvious she's checking the whole scene out. If I were a dancer (a big if) I'd try to read the situation to figure and try some lines to draw the gal more into the dancer/customer relationship. Something like: "your man is too polite, is he this way at home too?" or "tell me what he likes" This may be stupid (I've been stupid before and I'll be stupid again), but it might help both of them into the fantasy.

Oh well, who knows?

Midgetfour44
05-21-2006, 07:19 PM
Here's my view on the subject, though nobody has to take it seriously if they don't want to:

A customer getting a HJ KNOWS he's over the line and doing something illegal. I don't expect many men to refuse it if offered, though, because men are sexual beings. The bright men would refuse, though, since they don't want genital warts.

However, I find it highly offensive when a man ASKS for a HJ, BJ, sex, or to touch me inappropriately. Yeah, it's illegal for you to lick my nipple, nor do I apprecate it, and you know it. Also, how do you expect me to react to the question, "How much?" How would you feel if someone asked your wife/daughter/sister a question like that? I'm someone's wife/daughter/sister and I'm trying to make some money in a legitimate business environment.



I have no qualms with girls who wish to provide these services. I believe they are offering them in the wrong places. It would be nice if prostitution could be legalized across the US instead of just in Nevada. Since there's obviously so many girls willing to give, and so many customers willing to buy, they can't all go to Nevada. There just isn't enough room. I don't really want these girls out on the corner (It would be much better if they had a legitimate business pace), BUT the strip club is not for prostitution. It's a place for nude entertainment, with little or no touching. It's a place to talk with beautiful young women. Whether they genuinely like you or not, they act as if they do. That's the fantasy world of a strip club, and that's ALL that should be provided there.

sexymomma
05-23-2006, 05:22 AM
THANKYOU, thankyou, thankyou. I wish i could have said it in such the nice way you did. I dont understand why someone would argue this point. (ex.Jenny) and to Paris thanks for clarifying the strippers changing role for me. So it's either make your self the best you can be and focus on the stage show entertainment part of it all, or be prepared to get out or perform extras. It's too bad that you have to be forced one way or the other but it will probably be for the best because it will weed out those who probably shouldnt be in the industry either because they arent dedicated to it enough to step up there stage shows or because they are not willing to give extras. Also i think it will slowly (correct me if i am wrong) get rid of some of the prostitution goin on in the clubs because those girls who choose to lower their standards or who are feeling forced into it will more than likely run into some problems.

JuliaPDX
05-24-2006, 12:15 AM
Hi, unfortunately there's a wide variety of extras from the light hand on causty's cheek when a girl walks off of the stage to the very sick stuff(for money). I can say that I've seen both and they are both extra, and both can ruin a night for the rest of the girls in a club. The guys will follow, and I've really lost out when bartenders allow this stuff to go on. I skip out of those clubs the moment I find out the bartenders are deliberately looking the other way for kick-backs or whatever. Even if I weren't married, this type of behavior would never be part of my act. I respect managers, business owners and bar tenders who set up shop so the girls have a fair chance to make a decent living without crossing the line in any way or even risking the club's lisc.

aubrey_anderson
06-22-2006, 10:55 AM
Ummm... Doing extra's is just asking for a disease. We don't know where the customers have been especially if they partake in those types of activities and quite frankly they don't know where we've been. I was giving a dance the other day and the guy wanted to touch my boobs and "sneak a peek". Even though those arent really considered "extras" I obviously said no. People seem to think that being a dancer=no morals and values and thats really sad. I'm getting married in the next few months but even if I was single those activities would gross me out just as much!

Anona
06-23-2006, 04:55 AM
I totally agree with cpeters1. It's not right to call girls who are okay with touching/grinding/prostitution "dirty". After all, you don't like being looked down on because you take your clothes off for a living, do you?

I currently work in an extras club and while I don't do sex or b-jobs I definitely don't mind a customer touching me as long as he does not pinch my nipples or try to finger me.

The first club I worked in did not allow the customers to touch the girls. One night a Canadian man came in and he liked me a lot. He told me about the clubs where he was from, and that they allow touching there. He said he felt like it made the experience more fullfilling for both the customer and the dancer, and now that I've worked in a club where I can let the customer touch, I must say I agree. I'm not talking about fingering or anything, I'm just talking about a caress, a squeeze, an embrace.

sexy_celeste
06-23-2006, 07:32 AM
A guy would have to pay me alot of money to touch me! Im talking in the hundreds.

I fire any girl caught doing extras, I HATE it when guys ask, and will kick out the persistant ones. One guy knows he has to tip me $100 on top of the dance fee, cos Im his fav, but refused to dance for him for a few months, cant stand his asking. He asks for extras he leaves. Simple.

I would never do extras(including touching/contact of any sort) as I couldnt look at my kids, or tell my husband "guess what I did for $20" for feeling dirty.

When I started stripping I met a girl who was bashed and raped in a private dance cos the last girl had done extras and he wouldnt take no for an answer. I couldnt stand the thought of being the girl who caused that much pain to god knows how many others. My best friends kid sister strips with me for gods sake!

You want to do/get extras go to a brothel. Its that simple.

Scout
06-25-2006, 03:25 PM
The first club I worked in did not allow the customers to touch the girls. One night a Canadian man came in and he liked me a lot. He told me about the clubs where he was from, and that they allow touching there. He said he felt like it made the experience more fullfilling for both the customer and the dancer.

LOL! How many girls like to grind or have their asses and tits grabbed by complete strangers for $20? I am positive that 99.99999999% of dancers would do air dances if they could get away with it. The unfortunate truth is that most can't without their money taking a dive.

cameronkeys
06-25-2006, 04:43 PM
I was working in Fort Lauderdale, sitting with a customer when he whispered to me.. "see that girl over there."
And I said "yes." He then pointed out 4 other girls and told me that they had all offered him sex for 200 dollars.
I'm thinking to myself WTF. I kind of assumed if you're a dancer and you're good at your job you don't need to offer extras.
MHO for the girls who do offer extras, why not just go to vegas and work at a brothel.



pinupgurl2k6

Welcome to Ft Lauderdale. I'v eput up with this at every club here...they are pretty much whorehouses, and the owners are ok with it. In fact, when I complained to a bouncer in one club that a girl was giving a blow job in the lapdance room(not EVEN the champagne room) he said that the opwner told him.."you see nothing". Nice eh? Gross

TifaRae
06-25-2006, 08:14 PM
Strippers are just supposed to be the ones who initiate any contact (traditionally). When did grinding or letting men touch you at ALL become the norm? =(

Optimist
06-26-2006, 03:37 PM
^^^^^Ummm, what state do you live in?!

PleasureVictim
06-26-2006, 05:08 PM
A guy would have to pay me alot of money to touch me! Im talking in the hundreds.

I fire any girl caught doing extras, I HATE it when guys ask, and will kick out the persistant ones. One guy knows he has to tip me $100 on top of the dance fee, cos Im his fav, but refused to dance for him for a few months, cant stand his asking. He asks for extras he leaves. Simple.

I would never do extras(including touching/contact of any sort) as I couldnt look at my kids, or tell my husband "guess what I did for $20" for feeling dirty.

When I started stripping I met a girl who was bashed and raped in a private dance cos the last girl had done extras and he wouldnt take no for an answer. I couldnt stand the thought of being the girl who caused that much pain to god knows how many others. My best friends kid sister strips with me for gods sake!

You want to do/get extras go to a brothel. Its that simple.

Even though what she did was wrong, I wouldn't blame the woman for 'working some guy up'. He should act like a human being, not some uncontrollable animal. I hope he got arrested.

Roxi Dlite
06-26-2006, 05:15 PM
fyi... a couple of dancer's at my club of choice are getting more and more nasty with me (and I'm loving it!) - rubbing my penis thru my pants, kissing me on the lips and placing my hands on their breasts. I usually visit in the slow afternoons so I assume it's because they're all competing for my few hundred dollars during the afternoon. I feel bad because the girl I really like is not keeping up with the nasty girls and my dollars are starting to flow over to the dancers that get me breathing hard. Should I mention this to my fav dancer?... I'm sure she knows what's going on tho.

this is how it all starts.

miabella
06-26-2006, 05:29 PM
apparently, he's not asking the girls to do anything to him, just not resisting when they make the overtures/perform the extras. a lot of guys are that way. they are happy to pay for low or no contact dances when that is all the club(s) offer and enjoy personality and personal charm over sexual displays. but when dancers wedge in some overt sexual displays, a lot of guys find it hard to take their hands away and sit on them. and in fact such girls will sometimes (often?) be hurt and upset that the guy isn't 'attracted' to them if he were to NOT touch them after they've tried to make him touch. it is not quite the guy's entire fault, there. you are rude in excess of what he warrants.

GnBeret
06-26-2006, 07:51 PM
When I started stripping I met a girl who was bashed and raped in a private dance cos the last girl had done extras and he wouldnt take no for an answer. I couldnt stand the thought of being the girl who caused that much pain to god knows how many others.

Unh-unh. Don't confuse "correlation" with "causation" (i.e., the fact that 'x' sometimes precedes 'y' doesn't necessarily mean that 'x' causes 'y' - or, for that matter, that there's actually any relationship at all between 'x' and'y'), as it will often lead you to draw the wrong conclusion. And, insofar as the matters described above are concerned, there's no doubt that's the case. Simply stated, the girl who had done extras with the guy didn't cause him to rape that girl, and what you or anyone else does or doesn't do with a guy has nothing whatsoever with his abusing, raping or otherwise inflicting pain on another girl. "No" means "no," and while most men understand that, obviously there are some who don't - and, the guys who understand it won't commit rape, etc., no matter what their experience has been with any other girl... conversely, the guys who don't understand it never have and never will, regardless of their prior experiences with other girls, and just need to be locked up.

aliceland
06-26-2006, 10:07 PM
I understand the comparison that girls with "regular" jobs judge strippers and strippers shouldn't be like them and judge other strippers for doing extras. People shouldn't judge. But a stripper at a legitimate club has every right to be angry. She got a job at a stripclub because she wanted to strip and work alongside other strippers. If she wanted to do "extras" (ie; prositute) she would have gotten a job at a cathouse, and if there wasn't one in her area, she would have moved. It is not right. I don't care about whether it is moral or not. I had a beautiful stripper roommate and I've seen the girls she was talking about, and they really didn't compare to her. Yet she was coming home upset and angry because these other girls were taking customers away, potentially her customers, because they didn't want dances from a girl that would do extras. It's not about judging. It's about getting burned at work from dishonest people. That's the number one reason I never became a stripper. So yeah, you ruined it for me to! (I'm saying that jokingly, but it really is one of the main reasons - I'm in Houston and I know all about these clubs!)

Jenny
06-26-2006, 10:14 PM
I had a beautiful stripper roommate and I've seen the girls she was talking about, and they really didn't compare to her. Yet she was coming home upset and angry because these other girls were taking customers away, potentially her customers, because they didn't want dances from a girl that would do extras.
Oh god save me from the "beautiful strippers who don't do extras." Does it occur to you or your friend that there might be OTHER reasons guys get dances from other girls? I get sick to death of the endless assumptions of the self-ordained moral police who inevitably decide that anyone they think is less pretty than them who makes money is doing the proverbial extras. Maybe she is a) not as pretty as she thinks she is, b) not as fortuitous as other girls or c) not as effective a sales person. THIS is pure scapegoating.


It's not about judging. It's about getting burned at work from dishonest people.
Well, that is not entirely true. Community standards, you know. That is, if everyone else does a certain kind of dance it becomes the standard and you the exception. For example; sitting here calling us whores because we might take off our bottoms in a bottomless club, but you work at the club and don't want to doesn't actually make us dishonest. It means that you are a poor fit for the job.


That's the number one reason I never became a stripper. So yeah, you ruined it for me to! (I'm saying that jokingly, but it really is one of the main reasons - I'm in Houston and I know all about these clubs!)
Hmm. You're welcome?

miabella
06-27-2006, 02:46 AM
i work in houston, and it's not just ugmos giving extras that a girl has to compete with, so far as that goes-- plenty of hot girls do extras too. so i work in places where the customer-dancer ratio is never so bad as to leave me in a position of actually HAVING to go home with 20 dollars because the only customers with money wanted extras (worked briefly topless and was faced with 20 dollars for the night or 200 for doing extras, which is just ridiculous any way you slice it. i took my 20 dollars and found a new club).

Djoser
06-27-2006, 04:57 AM
i work in houston, and it's not just ugmos giving extras that a girl has to compete with, so far as that goes-- plenty of hot girls do extras too.

In my area, there's a lot less hot girls doing it than the 'ugmos', lol--but they are out there, that's for sure!

I just think it's disgusting that it's gotten to the point that any slob can walk in a club, get his dick rubbed by a woman's kitty, feel her tits and her ass, try for more while insulting her verbally or assaulting her sexually, and think that's not enough.

Beecause for 10-20$, he can get more than that from another woman.

This business is heading downhill, fast...

aliceland
06-27-2006, 11:20 AM
Jenny: "Oh god save me from the "beautiful strippers who don't do extras." Does it occur to you or your friend that there might be OTHER reasons guys get dances from other girls? I get sick to death of the endless assumptions of the self-ordained moral police who inevitably decide that anyone they think is less pretty than them who makes money is doing the proverbial extras. Maybe she is a) not as pretty as she thinks she is, b) not as fortuitous as other girls or c) not as effective a sales person. THIS is pure scapegoating."

It is VERY possible that isn't the only reason why. But I did know the girls personally that she danced with, and I did know the guys that were getting these "extras" from them. They didn't just do the "extras" in the club. I'm sure there's girls that danced with her that didn't do anything but dance and did fine, but those girls I didn't know, so I excluded them from what I had to say.


Jenny: "Well, that is not entirely true. Community standards, you know. That is, if everyone else does a certain kind of dance it becomes the standard and you the exception. For example; sitting here calling us whores because we might take off our bottoms in a bottomless club, but you work at the club and don't want to doesn't actually make us dishonest. It means that you are a poor fit for the job."


I never called anyone a whore. I did say that there's a line between stripping and prostituting. If you take your bottom off in a bottomless club, I'd still say you're stripping. I love nudie bars. I'm talking about girls being seen taking money from men in a club while the client's pants are unzipped and the "stripper" has an actual penis in her mouth for a few minutes. Maybe she just has a lot of boyfriends and likes to have fun with them in the club and they're just giving her money because they love her. I don't want to jump to conclusions, here, now that I've been called out. And I didn't even call a girl who does that a whore. I called her a prostitute. I think that would be the correct term. It happens all the time in my area. And I do know a club manager who specifically asks that the pretty girls who are looking for jobs to audition, and he tells the waitresses to send the not so attractive ones to his office to "audition" for the job. Dance how you want to, and dress or undress how you want to, but I think if there is penetration in any orifice involve, you're not a stripper, you're a prostitute. I also know waitresses that get really big tips for telling the men which dancers do this, and which don't - in turn, the dancers that do are brought extra clients who don't buy dances from strippers that don't turn tricks in the club.

I will give you the fact that I could be wrong, and it's not just the girls giving mouth hugs that are taking ALL of her business away, but I won't believe for one minute that they aren't taking at least a small chunk of it away. And I also won't back down on the fact that I think it is unfair. If that makes me the "moral police" to some people, that's fine. But this is one of the reasons I think prositution should be legalized. Let the ones who want to do that have their own club to work out of.

metal_n_mitsu
06-30-2006, 03:39 PM
I definately agree that I HATE the nasty girls. THey're dirty and disgusting. We have this one girl at my club in Phoenix who puts a waterbottle in her pussy while she's giving lap dancer and bites the guys dicks! It's SICK and tasteless! I would suggest, if you look up the laws in your city, or if you already know what they are. SEriously complain to managers, I know it's tattling, but hey, she's disgusting and it's more money that you're not getting, fuck that! If you complain enough and they do nothing, go to the city and report it, they will come and catch the nasty girls breaking the rules and then they will not be able to work there anymore and you will not be expected to do gross things for your money. If the guys come in and don't see those things, they won't expect it. Simple solution, try to get rid of it! That's what I do.

KennedyWinters
08-15-2006, 01:17 AM
This one girl I thought was doing extras because she went clear off the board when no one else was getting dances at all- turned out she's just an excellent hustler, asks guys to dance with her a bunch until they agree then gives them pressure point massages, eye contact and some honest-looking seduction. I am incorporating this technique into my dances, acting like a nympho, etc, but never even crossing any lines.

I am lucky to work in a fairly new club where the girls I'm almost sure are dirty- it doesn't seem to make a difference. maybe they are nasty, maybe not- i still come away with more than enough.

Crow
08-15-2006, 04:18 AM
"And I didn't even call a girl who does that a whore. I called her a prostitute. I think that would be the correct term."

WHORE: a woman who engages in sexual acts for money
PROSTITUTE: to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money

Okay, so there's a differance?
Plus, I am not bagging on sex workers in any way shape or form, before someone decides to go off. :)

It's not about the sexual act itself. It's about the fact that these so called nasty girls are willing to bend the rules to get their money. Plus, you really can't get mad at them - well you can but whatever. It's managements fault. Pure and simple. They have the power to get rid of them, yet they stay.

Thats where you should direct your attack to. All this bitching and complaining is going to get you no where. Untill you bitch and or complain to the boss man. Or psuedo boss man as the case may be.

By the way I looked up whore and prostitute, websters has an awesome on line dictionary. You should try it sometime.

PookaShell
08-21-2006, 11:32 PM
CPeters and Fourwinns I know everyone is entitled to their opinions - but for one, you say hey theres nothing wrong with doing these things if its what you are into - but having full blown sex in the vip room - not only is illegal but it is the reason for the downfall of more than just alot of honest girls income, but diseases, girls getting fired multiple times and ending up homeless, pregnancies and abortions, and yeah society does have a stigma for strippers, yeah people do call the little girl down the street who dances from 5 oclock when she gets out of class until 3 am when she drives an hour home, sleeps for two hours just in time to make it to her next class so she can pay her bills with enough time to go to college - a dirty little slut for where she goes every night. But thats the girls who are working their asses off, doing twice as much work to make half the money of the trashy hookers ya'll are defending just because they turn you on. What about the women who have danced for 10 years, not screwing people in the back room to be able to get a good crack fix after work - I mean WORKING their hot experienced as$es off without being a prostitute (and yes legally you can be charged with prostitution for accepting money for any sexual act including rubbing through pants) so that they can take care of their kids and their families. Yeah it isn't the only way but why shouldn't it be a way? Why should they have to sit at a minimum wage office job and never see their kids because a load of crackwhores are sweeping the nation selling their diseases to support their habit and guys who think they are so high and mighty defend them just so we won't want to put a stop to it. There's no way to justify people doing illegal acts to cheat their way to the top. In any industry. I gurantee you would find something wrong with it if this were happening to whatever line of work you are in.

miabella
08-22-2006, 12:29 AM
you know, it really isn't a choice between 5 bucks an hour and stripping, not even if a woman is low-skilled. i think that's a red herring, false dichotomy, etc constantly thrown out in these types of discussions. for various reasons the stripping part of the sex industry is trending much more towards, well, sex in the champagne room and not much else. if a girl is lucky enough to work in or be able to travel to areas/clubs where that is not the dominant trend, great for her. but that hardly means the rest are stuck working at mcdonald's if they aren't willing to offer extras. and tons of college girls seem to do all right without stripping their way through school.

stripping is not a bad option moneywise, but it certainly isn't the only choice women have if they aren't degreed or whatever.

PookaShell
08-22-2006, 12:35 AM
I know it isn't the only choice out there mia, but it is sad to hand over the entire industry without some kind of fight. The hours and money are great and can be really helpful to people in college, single moms, etc and sure there are plenty of other ways but it is sad to see every club turned into a brothel one by one and the girls who really benefitted from the flexibility don't get to have it as an option. It just sucks is all.

miabella
08-22-2006, 12:56 AM
of course it sucks, but you'd have to get rid of the internet and satellite cable and close about 75% of the clubs in most major cities to get some kind of situation where girls could all stage-dance and make 500$ a shift.

hell, part of the reason extras are so endemic is BECAUSE so many girls think the only choices they have are mcd's or some kind of sexwork (stripping, porn, escorting, etc) and nothing else.

PookaShell
08-22-2006, 01:04 AM
Things are just going downhill kind of with everything. Everybody has to know someone to get anywhere it seems like. I live in a really small college town right now and the few jobs that are here for college students have been long gone. If I'm going to be able to afford to drive into the city, an hour away, on the weekends I just can't afford for the time and gas to mean 45 bucks in tips that I made waiting tables (I waited tables at Johnny Carinos for a year) And I don't have a schedule that would fit an office job because I'm taking 18 hours right now. Theres just not a whole lot that would fit my schedule and cover my bills right now. You know? I realize the problem is too big and out of control to grab, especially with a message board, but I just can't help but respond when guys come and ask where they can find a good club full of extra's. I don't know. It's 3 in the morning, I'm PMSing...just rambling. Sorry if I offended you or somethin I was just saying what I was thinking.