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threlayer
09-04-2005, 12:39 AM
Hey! Leave Bush alone. He was on vacation. He works so hard that he needs it. Anyhow he cut his vacation short so he could take a helicopter ride to sight see.

Besides he has people who are paid big bucks to work hard doing this detailed stuff -- you know war planning and disaster management. That sort of thing....

Anyhow this thread section belongs in the political forum area, if there were one.

GnBeret
09-04-2005, 12:53 AM
...As for the catastrophe in NOLA, it has nothing to do with GWB and everything to do with the fact that, a) despite the best efforts and billions of dollars spent by the eminently capable ACOE, the Mississippi River has been confined to the detriment of the Louisiana wetlands (they've lost 2 million acres in 50 years!)....

This disaster was a long time coming, and anyone believing that spending another $100 million on levees would have saved the city from the ravages of a CAT 4 or 5 hurricane are simply fooling themselves.

Aja... all true. The scientists who specialize in wetlands research at LSU, as well as both NOAA and the COE, have been banging their heads against the wall for over thirty years now trying to convince Congress that the continuing loss of the wetlands, which perform the function of acting as both a "natural levee" and a "sponge" of sorts that reduces the level of the storm surge that precedes a hurricane,would eventually render not only the existing, but also any future levee system which we might realistically contemplate building wholly inadequate. And, while their efforts had finally begun to pay off with the opening of the Davis Pond diversion a few years ago, the cessation of the dredging of the MRGO, and the planned construction of at least two other diversion projects, it was just too little, too late.


Thw whole city and maybe state was in absolute denial that is could be DESTROYED.They lived with it for years and years, knowing intellectually that someday it would happen. But that knowledge never sunk into their senses because it would have erased their complacency....

This is absolutely untrue. In addition to marshalllng every resource it could manage to come up with (funding of wetlands research at its universities so as to be able to produce large scale scientific studies which would survive peer review and provide Congress with the evidence it needed to fund the projects the State kept screaming were desperately needed as the situation became more and more critical with each passing year; introduction of legislation re same year-in and year-out for the past 20+ years; promulgation of more stringent regulations that substantially reduced the oil & gas industry's destruction of the wetlands [they've dredged over 10,000 miles worth of canals in the wetlands since the 1920's], and on and on and on) the State has tried to circumvent the Feds unwillingness to do anything meaningful nearly 1/2 dozen times by enacting various tax measures on the offshore oil industry for the destruction it causes as it runs it's lines, etc. across the marsh... only to have each struck down in Federal Court in an energy industry suit openly backed by the Justice Department.

The fact of the matter is, Louisiana has pretty much been the ONLY party to this entire debaucle that wasn't complacent re what everyone understood was coming at some point, sooner or later.

Casual Observer
09-04-2005, 08:52 AM
he asked for the help and the fed did not respond in a timely fashion.

No, Nagin didn't ask for martial law--until two days after the storm, and when things had already descended into complete chaos. If that makes him your hero and GWB the villian, then you have a warped sense of what passes for civic responsibility. You can't just pretend that you can handle the crisis for three days and then when you realize that you can't do it and neither can your governor, scream that the Federal government wasn't responsive enough. There are laws and protocols to be followed in our society--you know, that whole Constitution thing?


sorry, but it's the Fed's responciblilty to care for things like this and this particular administration has not done a very good job of it so far. It's a national disgrace and sadly this is not the first for this bunch of assholes either. It's just the latest of a long line of disgusting things.

It's not the Fed's responsibility; you obviously don't know your law, which, given the attitude most Americans have currently toward the response, is hardly surprising. The Federal government cannot just go into a state, seize its National Guard units and declare martial law by usurping the governor of that state. It's been that way for a long, long time. In fact, GWB and crew tried to get the governor to authorize Federal coordination of the evacuation of NOLA on Friday--last Friday (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9189916/) but were rebuffed by Governor Blanco. You want to be pissed at someone for slow response? Lay it at her feet.

two-timer
09-04-2005, 09:52 AM
a lot of people didn't leave because either they didn't think it was going to be that bad OR they had no means of getting themselves or their families out of NOLA.
With regard to the phrase to the left of OR, if individuals had that opinion, then they have no moral right to seek assistance in leaving after the devastation. No physically fit individual(s) capable of walking should have been air lifted out. The air lifts and other rescue operations should have been reserved for the very old or the crippled.

With regard to the phrase to the right of OR, if they could walk, they should have walked to the highways where there were plenty of cars that they could have hitched a ride with. If people had kids and they didn't leave, they should be tried for child abuse. You don't put your kids' lives at risk.

threlayer
09-04-2005, 10:49 AM
Thw whole city and maybe state was in absolute denial that is could be DESTROYED.They lived with it for years and years, knowing intellectually that someday it would happen. But that knowledge never sunk into their senses because it would have erased their complacency....

This is absolutely untrue. In addition to marshalllng every resource it could manage to come up with (funding of wetlands research at its universities so as to be able to produce large scale scientific studies which would survive peer review and provide ...

The fact of the matter is, Louisiana has pretty much been the ONLY party to this entire debaucle that wasn't complacent re what everyone understood was coming at some point, sooner or later.

When the absolute worst MAY happen, then you need a major-scale, testable, rehearsed plan that can be put into action very rapidly. This is PLANNING 101, a course I could teach. Then why did they not have a tight-knit plan to move everyone out (La National Guard, commercial busses, school busses, trucks, barges, whatever), start martial law, maintain the pumps, etc? Why weren't they on standby when the storm's direction was known to be close enough, probably 36-48 hours before it was known as inevitable? The local stuff they COULD have prepared for; they had YEARS.
For example what if it had been anthrax or nerve gas spray during a football game? (you have only minutes then, not hours or days to wait for calls to be answered) You need to be as self-reliant as you can be. I am absolutely sure they could have done a LOT more.

Because I believe they didn't feel the danger enough in their guts to do anything effective against the worst reality they could imagine (other than a nuclear air burst)?

Else they have to be called incompetent, stupid, corrupt, and I don't believe that -- just a human tendency to believe the worst will not happen.

two-timer
09-04-2005, 10:55 AM
Here's something nice from the DrudgeReport (http://www.drudgereport.com/):


The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating ...

SW Siren
09-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Actions have consequences.

No one could predict that a hurricane the size of Katrina would hit this year, but the slow federal response when it did happen was no accident.

It was the result of four years of deliberate Republican policy and budget choices that favor ideology and partisan loyalty at the expense of operational competence.

It's the Bush administration in a nutshell.

lwtex52
09-04-2005, 02:48 PM
I've been reading the posts regarding the hurricane, its result, and the lack of governmental aid that followed. I know this will make more than a few people angry, but here goes.

This is not an issue, nor the appropriate time, to play politics. The problem is not a Republican nor a Democratic issue. The fact is that, once elected, they are all the same anyway. The problem is that our government is controlled by a large bureaocracy whose members really do not give a damn about this country's own citizens. Now we have seen that they are also unable to plan for an emergency they know is about to occur.

The lack of response at the federal level and the resulting anarchy in New Orleans could have happened anywhere. Sure, a wealthier region might have gotten faster attention, but they could also pay for the help. It's a bit like credit: "Them that needs it the most usually gets it the least." The point here is that it was Americans that were hurt, not just black or white, and this could happen anywhere.

America's resources have been used elsewhere, or used for inappropriate means, and after the past fifteen or so years, there was nothing left for New Orleans and the central Gulf Coast, and no competent people to devise a plan of action to be applied after the hurricane left. It hurts to see this happen to a city and a part of the country that many of us loved, but it did, and now it is time to move on, and help those left behind.

The only thing we can count on is ourselves, and do what each of us can do to help. Send money, go to a displacement center and help the new arrivals. Many of them will stay, and it won't hurt to introduce them to their new surroundings. When people feel welcome, they tend to pitch in to help build a better community. The people who stay in New Orleans and the central Gulf Coast might need an extra hammer and an arm to swing it. If you can afford the time, go help. If not, mail the hammer.

As to the politics, invoke term limits and vote against the incumbent at election time. Our two-party system has become one party and change.

And that's my two cents, plus tax.

GnBeret
09-04-2005, 05:30 PM
When the absolute worst MAY happen, then you need a major-scale, testable, rehearsed plan that can be put into action very rapidly. This is PLANNING 101, a course I could teach. Then why did they not have a tight-knit plan to move everyone out (La National Guard, commercial busses, school busses, trucks, barges, whatever), start martial law, maintain the pumps, etc? Why weren't they on standby when the storm's direction was known to be close enough, probably 36-48 hours before it was known as inevitable? The local stuff they COULD have prepared for; they had YEARS.

Aja... and you need the money to actually be able to implement it as designed and rehearsed as well, else it's just so much BS cranked out by the bureaucracy to make people feel even more complacent about the situation.

NOLA gets a close enough call at the "36 hours out" marker to have to marshall all the resources it would need to actually move the 50,000 -80,000 people we're talking about every couple of years. And, assuming it could actually even be phisically accomplished, the National Hurricane Center doesn't even "call the ball" with enough accuracy to warrant putting the plan into action until about the "16 hours out" marker, so when that happens every 3-5 years or so, they'll have 12-14 hours tops to load-up and transport 50,000+ people a minimum of 150 miles... at which point they'll also have to be set-up to fedd, house and care for them for at least 24 hours.

Right. This is NOLA we're talking about - a place that can't even afford to cut the freakin' grass on the neutral grounds! Where, exactly, are they supposed to self-reliantly come up with the millions, if not tens of millions of dollars per year that would be required to maintain this kind of repetitive clusterf*** at an operational level on a sustained basis???

threlayer
09-04-2005, 06:54 PM
This isn't about political parties; it is about competence. I don't care nor know who is in the Republican, Libertarian, Democrat, Liberal, Green, Block, or Tupperware party. Some may believe it is political influence rather than abilities, but I have no insight into that cynical view.

I guess the whole of the Louisiana political group in DC and in BatonRouge could not pursuade anyone that the levees constitute also a terrorist threat. There are many levels of incompetence to consider improving upon. Maybe the powers will consider this a hard lesson.

Breeze
09-05-2005, 02:03 AM
Ladies, the fact of the matter is that, this is GOD's work and we can just keep on keeping on. HOWEVER, since we are all in the indutry and know how the money can be, there are girls from New Orleancs, who now have no way to support themselves. Everybody doesnot have a second job, or a degree, or even a sugardaddy, so they have to stay on the grind. I live in Dallas, if anyone sees this and is fine (smile) or a good hustler, and is willing to relocate here, then leave me a message, and I will take u to a couple of spots where u can get u some money in your pocket to help u get back up on your feet. No hole in the walls, or anything goes clubs. But some safe spots, where u can trust your co-workers ( to a certain extent) I WANT TO HELP ANY ENTERTAINER OUT THERE WHO IS TRYING TO HELP THEMSELVES. Lets look out for each other, because, nobody else damn sure is.

serenasommers
09-05-2005, 02:06 AM
Umm, unfortunately Casual Observer, while your post is very long and SEEMS well-informed, you don't have your facts straight. It was reported on several different news broadcasts that FEMA was staging LAST Sunday in preparation for the hurricane, after BUSH had declared a sate of emergency on Saturday. It was the lack of orders to proceed from the federal government that kept them delayed. Not to mention the unusual lack of National Guard troops in the region because they are disproportionately occupied, uh, ELSEWHERE, if you know what I mean.....Not too mention that Bush didn't suspend his vacation until Wednesday or visit the sites until Friday, yet strangely he did find time to do fundraising schmoozing in California on Tuesday. I don't think it ever took him that long to visit the sites of any Florida hurricanes. Oh, and our secretary of State Cunt-o-leeza Rice was shoe shopping at Ferragamo and attending musicals in New York all week. But that's not the main topic. The former director of FEMA appeared on ABC news and stated that there was no way that it should have taken Federal aid so long to reach the city. His point was that if so many news crews could reach the city and move about so easily, then why couldn't FEMA. They also had a retired Colonel on that same broadcast saying that it was BS for the military to not drop food,water etc. within 24hrs. Even one of your brethren, Newt Gingrich, has criticized Bush's handling of the whole affair. And I don't think it's valid to say that the people criticizing the Federal Government aren't helping the situation, if anything those people are probably doing MORE because they are so disgusted by the lack of help received. And I include in that number the Doctors at Charity and Children's Hospitals, members of the NOPD and several Mississippi firefighters. In fact, the Mississippi firefighters said that they had received donations of MRE's from the Sheriff's Dept in another state days before Federal help arrived. How come that private aid came so quickly, but the Federal assistance took so much more time to organize?

Regarding the offense taken by the use of the word "refugee": the first major discussion of its' innapproriateness was started by the Congressional Black Caucus, a group which I'm pretty sure is well-educated and familiar with big words; not just having heard them used on television; as they were elected to the United States Congress and that usually entails having to give lots of speeches. The word is traditionally used in this country to indicate a status granted by the INS to immigrants fleeing a foreign country that is besieged by some sort of political oppression or natural catastrophe, NOT American citizens sheltering in a neighboring state. Of course this term would not be offensive to a person from another country that came to live here, it has quite another connotation when used to describe American citizens.

And the poster that brought up the Yahoo news photos did not originate that discussion; it has been discussed quite extensively in the national media; to the consequence of the AP news service changing the captions of both photos. The dialogue regarding the issue on this forum has only served to elucidate the subconscious racism that caused the pictures to be captioned as such in the first place. Examples are given of the black man being seen on videotape, carrying sneakers, jewelery etc; of the food just "floating by" the white couple. Yet there is no evidence of this in either photo, they are remarkably similar except for the fact that the man descibed as "looting" is black. I can give you another example: Bob Woodruff of ABC accosted a black man removing 1 drink and one bag of food from a store on Tuesday night, telling him "do you think what you're doing is right? You're STEALING!" Yet in the very next story a relief worker says they have no food or water for the people plucked off of rooftops. On Wednesday night the ABC crew came across a black woman scavenging for food in the convention center, the voiceover describes the white anchor as "helping her FIND a stash of juice". It's the same scenario, black people "loot" or "steal", when white people are involved it's "finding" necessities.

The example of evacuation being slowed because neighboring states didn't want a spike in crime is fairly ridiculous as well. The City of Houston offered the use of the Astrodome on Tuesday, the problem was the Federal government did not provide the buses it promised for days. And yeah, I would wager that statistically any city that saw it's population spike by 250,000 people (including those who fled in their own cars) would see a concurrent spike in crime matching the surge in population. And you know what? SOME of those crimes might even be perpetrated ON the evacuees, by people preying on a vulnerable population, rather than only BY them as you assume. Heck, a white Houstonian could theoretically prey on a black "refugee"; the point is you don't know for sure what anyone will do.

The levees in New Orleans were built to and HAVE sustained the force of a Category 3 storm. The City repeatedly asked the Federal Government for additional funding and their budget was in fact cut, repeatedly. And why the sudden raise in the frequency of hurricanes past Category 3, folks? Global warming; cause by continuing pollution caused by big business, gas-guzzling SUVS and the ever loosening of environmental standards by the Reagan through Bush 1and 2 regimes....but I'm not even gonna GO there. In fact, post-Tsunami, a hurricane in New Orleans WAS one of the 3 major disaster scenarios that FEMA actually was supposed to have practiced and planned for; along with a California earthquake and another terrorist attack. So yeah, it is kind of appropriate to blame them for not being prepared. Kind of scares you to think of what might happen with the other two, doesn't it? And as far as local officials not caring or preparing for hurricanes, that is a joke and an insult. After Hurricane Ivan in 2001, the city and state devised a plan for both lanes of the I-10 to flow OUT of the city in the event of an evacuation, which is what is credited for the people that OWN CARS to evacuate in such large numbers and en masse relatively smoothly.

The constant blaming of the people of the City of New Orleans for their predicament is by far the most ludicrous of the arguments being bandied about. So because they live in one of the oldest cities in America, that just happens to have been founded below sea level, that means they aren't Americans deserving of help??? Of course not. If that were a legitimate argument, than nor should we aid the citizens of a hurricane-prone, drained swamp known as Florida; or an earthquake-ravaged, irrigated desert known as California. Should we also "relocate" Los Angeles or any of several cities in Florida? Or Biloxi and Gulfport, Mississippi and Mobile, Alabama? I think their citizens would say no. Don't even get me started on the tornado prone Midwest or terrorism prone New York... Most of the United States was at one time, in one way uninhabitable and we have transformed it into something we fool ourselves in to thinking is infallibly livable, but every once in a while Nature has to bite us on the ass to remind us that she is still there. And when that happens, I think most of the people in this country agree that we AND the Federal Government should help everyone as quickly and comprehensively as possible. That just inexcusably did not happen here. The elderly and babies should not be dying in the streets of America like dogs because of dehydration, people. It is just wrong.

NinaDaisy
09-05-2005, 02:28 AM
Ladies, the fact of the matter is that, this is GOD's work and we can just keep on keeping on. HOWEVER, since we are all in the indutry and know how the money can be, there are girls from New Orleancs, who now have no way to support themselves. Everybody doesnot have a second job, or a degree, or even a sugardaddy, so they have to stay on the grind. I live in Dallas, if anyone sees this and is fine (smile) or a good hustler, and is willing to relocate here, then leave me a message, and I will take u to a couple of spots where u can get u some money in your pocket to help u get back up on your feet. No hole in the walls, or anything goes clubs. But some safe spots, where u can trust your co-workers ( to a certain extent) I WANT TO HELP ANY ENTERTAINER OUT THERE WHO IS TRYING TO HELP THEMSELVES. Lets look out for each other, because, nobody else damn sure is.

Strippers tend to be a pretty resourceful bunch. I think most of the ladies here will likely look through club reviews of find out through word-of-mouth where the good places to work are.

serenasommers
09-05-2005, 02:40 AM
I think it was mentioned, also, at one time on this forum, that Rick's Cabaret in New York was offering to pay at least the airfare of entertainers that would like to come in for the Grand Opening of their club, which should be happening soon. That might be a good way for some of the ladies in the region to make some quick money and get a much-needed change of scenery. :)

SW Siren
09-05-2005, 01:53 PM
just wanted to give a shout out to Serena , THANKYOU so much for your 1st post in this thread !

you said everything I wanted to the other day (when I got so digusted at some of the things said here that I had to leave the discussion) and more.

Welcome to the website and I look forward to reading more of your posts

SW Siren
09-05-2005, 02:52 PM
OK now this really pisses me off ! The Fed is now turning away water, food and fuel aid from reaching the victims . WTF ?????

this comes from AOL news


"Why did it happen? Who needs to be fired?" asked Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish, south of New Orleans.

Far from deferring to state or local officials, FEMA asserted its authority and made things worse, Mr. Broussard complained on "Meet the Press."

When Wal-Mart sent three trailer trucks loaded with water, FEMA officials turned them away. Agency workers prevented the Coast Guard from delivering 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel, and on Saturday they cut the parish's emergency communications line, leading the sheriff to restore it and post armed guards to protect it from FEMA

Crow
09-05-2005, 03:01 PM
It's not suprising, this part of the country - (South gullf coast, mostly Mississippi ) has been treated like a step clid twice removed from a marriage that was bent on disaster from the start.

In other words we have been treated like crap.
R

lwtex52
09-05-2005, 03:39 PM
It's not suprising, this part of the country - (South gullf coast, mostly Mississippi ) has been treated like a step clid twice removed from a marriage that was bent on disaster from the start.

In other words we have been treated like crap.
R

I am becoming more firm in my conviction that every swinging **** working at FEMA needs to be placed in front of a firing squad.

Crow, whatever you do, take care of you. We need your wit and charm. Besides, nobody else spits soda while laughing at my crappy jokes.

Casual Observer
09-05-2005, 06:56 PM
It was reported on several different news broadcasts that FEMA was staging LAST Sunday in preparation for the hurricane, after BUSH had declared a sate of emergency on Saturday.

How come that private aid came so quickly, but the Federal assistance took so much more time to organize?

Point of order: the president doesn't declare a state of emergency--local and state officials do, which means that Nagin and Blanco had the legal and Constitutional responsibility to rescind control of ANG units, enact martial law and formally request Federal intervention. They didn't do this for almost three days. What you're referring to is establishment of Federally designated disaster areas, which makes those areas eligible for Federal aid in the form of loans, some forms of logistical relief, et al. They also rejected FEMA conducting the evacuation last Friday--before the storm hit--for political considerations. (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9189916/)

Relevant quote:


Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration had sought control over National Guard units, normally under control of the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request, noting that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. State authorities suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who is an adviser and does not have the authority to speak publicly.

Blanco made two moves Saturday that protected her independence from the federal government: She created a philanthropic fund for the state's victims and hired James Lee Witt, Federal Emergency Management Agency director in the Clinton administration, to advise her on the relief effort.

And FEMA Director Michael D. Brown, a frequent target of New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin's wrath, said Saturday that "the mayor can order an evacuation and try to evacuate the city, but if the mayor does not have the resources to get the poor, elderly, the disabled, those who cannot, out, or if he does not even have police capacity to enforce the mandatory evacuation, to make people leave, then you end up with the kind of situation we have right now in New Orleans."

Don't get pissed at GWB or FEMA simply because you don't know how the law works.

PhaedrusZ
09-05-2005, 07:17 PM
This is being reposted here from another MB with the author's permission. These are his comments answering someone else's question re: whether New Orleans should be abandoned to the sea, or rebuilt...

"The answer is of course... yes and no. As much as we comment about how much danger New Orleans was in, and you can debate refusing to fund a Category 4/5 levee system, and never finishing the job of the Category 3, which are all valid points...but if you do not rebuild New Orleans, then you have to move its purpose elsewhere. New Orleans was the largest hub of ocean- and river-going supplies. 1/3 of the entire nation's oil went through New Orleans. Most of the foreign oil came through tankers to New Orleans and sent up the Mississippi or sent to processing stations in the Gulf, on top of the oil produced in the Gulf going through New Orleans. There was a naval yard, most of your coffees from South America were not brought though Mexico by land, they were brought through New Orleans by ship. It was a central hub of almost all the Mississippi operations. Metal ores, textiles, even foreign cars were brought by ship through New Orleans. Anything from the other side of the Atlantic that was meant for anywhere in the USA other than the east coast went through New Orleans and up the Mississippi before going by land elsewhere.

New Orleans may be known for its music, and its partying, and it may now be known for this disaster, but the economic base of New Orleans either needs to be rebuilt, or moved. If you move all those transfer points farther inland up the Mississippi, who controls the waterways of the Mississippi? New Orleans was also the security checkpoint for all those products BEFORE they got far into the USA. Ports that are near the ocean are cost effective that way. Being closer to the ocean it is cheaper and safer to process incoming "stuff" on the coast. So moving it deeper inland may make it safer, but also makes it more expensive to operate. So the money you save on the levee system now goes into other things, it's a break-even game either way.

This is the problem, we knew this disaster was coming. It was inevitable. Even those who could ignore the possibility of human lives lost and were worried about the bottom line....weren't thinking about the bottom line either. Chances are this will cost 100 billion to repair, or move the operational purpose of New Orleans. We argued over 4 billion for a levee system that might have had a "chance" of surviving this. We cut it back to 300 million for a smaller levee system, and then cut it back to 30 million, then never fully funded it.... now it will cost 100 billion. Regardless of the human cost, that was foolish. Add in the human cost and it was worse than foolish."

So, going from his analysis, it seems rebuilding might be the most cost-effective plan right now, as expensive as it has now become. The old cliche', "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" has proven to be very true in this case. Now that we're talking about a cure instead of prevention.

threlayer
09-05-2005, 08:48 PM
Water etc. not available now ....

They want to force people out because NO is going to get a LOT NASTIER as time goes on. Reported is that some people want to stay there to care for their pets which they were not allowed to take aboard the busses to the rescue centers. I'm sure there are many other reasons, such as to protect property or even thinking they have it better now than in some tent city. Very hard to call it so that it benefits all concerned.

Melonie
09-05-2005, 09:30 PM
OK I've stayed silent on this subject for a week now, but it's time to speak up.

point #1 - research the Posse Comitatus act. Mississippi Gov. signed off on Katrina being a federal disaster in his state on the day of the hurricane. Louisiana Gov. Blanco screwed around for 3 days before doing the same. During those three days New Orleans gang bangers organized themselves, armed themselves, and basically overwhelmed NO police and LA guardsmen (who, prior to Gov. Blanco's signature, were the only legally authorized agencies to deal with law enforcement/security in NO). With gang bangers in de-facto control of NO streets, it was impossible to send in 'non-professional' aid i.e. civilian volunteers, truck drivers, contractors.

point #2 - research the REAL reason that gang bangers wanted to disrupt rescue efforts for a couple of days. NO is the import/export capital of lots of products, but particularly it is the import capital for 'white powder' - due in no small measure to the rampant corruption of local politicians and cops. Certain criminal elements had a huge incentive to want to keep the city of NO rescue efforts in turmoil until they themselves could 'evacuate' multiple billions of dollars worth of 'inventory' from the city. This issue is not being talked about at all in mainstream media, but it certainly forms a logical progression of connecting the dots (i.e. why on earth would gang bangers want to shoot at firemen or at civilian contractors sent to work on the levees ?).

point #3 - while the mainstream media has spent 90%+ of their coverage on NO and boat/helicopter rescues of poor black people from NO, Mississippi and Alabama have been suffering in silence. It was MS and AL that took the brunt of Katrina's damage. It is MS and AL that just now are finally getting massive federal help as part of a 'second wave', while the 'first wave' was initially all deflected to NO once the outcries of 'racist rescues' hit the airwaves. In the meantime, instead of sitting/standing around and waiting for the federal gov't to do something, the local govt's and people of MS and AL have been cranking up their own chain saws, clearing their own roads, clearing their own dead bodies, transporting their own wounded/disabled/homeless to shelters, providing their own 12 gage security against looters and other criminal element, and in many cases driving/floating in their own supplies as well. However, for some reason mainstream media doesn't have much coverage of poor white disaster victims or poor hispanic disaster victims in MS and AL, but continues to replay coverage of poor black disaster victims in LA.

Tina
09-05-2005, 10:15 PM
The drug situation is reality, and the mayor admitted it himself on his radio interview, that drugs were behind the violence. He mentioned the city has a major drug problem. Plus being a major port city coincides with this.

Plus the city had a history of corruption and he was elected to try and stem the tide of that corruption, which obviously is a major undertaking.

threlayer
09-06-2005, 02:35 AM
The cocaine trade in NOLA, now that I hear about it, make sense. (Didn't it used to be Miami and Texas?) Guess I missed the news program that carried that info. They know the city; so why didn't they make provisions for it? So I wonder how many low end dealers would try to stay there to pick up customers with an ever-dwindling supply of money; hmmmm, maybe they would barter with their looted goodies? Hmmmm, an even more complex topic of disgust to rant with.

About the two other states - while NOLA is the big story because of the flood, every major networks news program I've seen since it became Category 5 and since it hit and moved on, always carried stories about either/both AL and MS in the same program. (But I do not monitor each network and I do not get cable or satellite.) I was watching for it because I have visited each of these cities in recent years, each for several days, though I know no one there.

kitana
09-06-2005, 08:38 AM
OTB< thank God you and yours are ok. MY pc has been in the shop so I haven't been able to respond before today.

But as soon as I heard about what happened, you were the 1st person I thought about.

I'm glad your safe.

*kisses*

threlayer
09-06-2005, 08:58 AM
I have to admit that I did not know the full extent of pre-Katrina crime in NOLA. I would not wanted to have live there, even with the jazz and food. Another interesting thing - I just did a Google News search on "new orleans cocaine" and got a few articles on the present situation, but almost all of those articles were from media OUTSIDE the USA. Now that's odd as hell. Here's one...

The Australian
Poverty rules in crime capital of the South
John Harlow, New Orleans
September 05, 2005

EVEN before the flood, the mean streets of New Orleans had little respect for age and reputation. It was always a city where things could easily get out of control.

When Ray Davies of the Kinks chased a mugger who attacked his girlfriend in the city's French Quarter last year, he was shot in the leg. The singer was lucky not to be killed in what is, or was, the crime capital of the south.

Tourists were routinely warned against leaving the 30 blocks that made up the supposedly safe French Quarter, but crime in the Big Easy had an ingrained habit of breaking its banks.

While murder rates have declined in most US cities, in New Orleans they were still rising. There were 53.1 murders per 100,000 inhabitants in 2002, compared with 7.3 in New York.

The New Orleans Police Department - long accused of corruption - claimed it was cleaning up its act, but in an extraordinary admission last week the FBI said any improvement in the city's grim crime statistics could have been due to people taking the law into their own hands.

FBI special agent James Bernazzani told reporters: "There is a community perception that the state judicial system has failed. And when that perception, true or not, becomes ingrained, then a second judicial system kicks in - street revenge."

When the floodwaters of Hurricane Katrina brought these ugly currents to the surface, the poor black-populated northern reaches of the city were worst affected. It was no surprise that mobs from these districts were ready to take advantage of the chaos.

Blacks, who comprise 67per cent of the city's population and 88per cent of its unemployed, have long mistrusted the police. And not without reason, as the force was often accused of racism. The black community looks to its own churches and social networks for protection.

The NOPD says it is reforming, but in the past year one officer has been convicted of murder and four have been charged with conspiring to rob banks. Senior officers are also investigating a gambling racket called the Razzle Dazzle, which for years has fleeced tourists of thousands of dollars on Bourbon Street, without the police seeming to notice.

Worryingly, New Orleans has hung on to some of its worst vices while other parts of the US have moved on. Police say the poor of New Orleans are still using crack cocaine, a highly addictive and dangerous drug that went out of use elsewhere a decade ago.

The reasons are not hard to find - New Orleans has traditional links with South American criminals who use it as an entry point for smuggling. In a city where poverty rates are above average and unemployment rampant, there was never a shortage of volunteers for the drugs trade.

The New Orleans Cajun music slogan is "laissez les bon temps rouler" - let the good times roll - and the police appear happy to go along with the theme.

No New Orleans police chief has ever attempted anything like zero tolerance. The Sunday Times

Melonie
09-06-2005, 01:12 PM
I just did a Google News search on "new orleans cocaine" and got a few articles on the present situation, but almost all of those articles were from media OUTSIDE the USA. Now that's odd as hell.

It really isn't all that odd if you concede the possibility that mainstream US media has a political 'agenda', and that openly discussing NOPD corruption, the extent of the US drug trade which, until Katrina struck, had been using NO as their main port of entry under the 'blind eye' of the NO and LA criminal justice system etc. This same political 'agenda' by mainstream media has for the most part maximized coverage of poor LA urban black victims and minimized coverage of poor MS and AL white & hispanic & black victims of Katrina, even though MS and AL took the brunt of the storm damage and, at least until the last couple of days, got very little in the way of federal assistance due to all of the available federal assets being sent to LA. This same political 'agenda' by mainstream media has minimized factual reporting re Posse Comitatus, of the meetings between GWB, Gov. Blanco, and mayor Nagin last week where it was clearly the governor who delayed officially requesting federal assistance (later admitted to be the case on camera by mayor Nagin himself). Instead mainstream media has emphasized opinion reporting (particularly hollywood celebrity opinions i.e. Sean Penn) that GWB and the feds are totally responsible for the delays in federal assistance arriving in New Orleans.

However, based on a new opinion poll, it would appear that a large percentage of the American public is not buying mainstream media's fraudulent spin ...



In regard to the Vancouver urban search and rescue team, I for one am very grateful. However, 'official' gratitude from LA seems to be as scarce as working electricity in MS and AL. Virtually every other US state has sent police/firemen/EMT's to the region as well. However, mainstream news coverage seems to center on what federal troops are doing, or more accurately, not doing. But for a fact, most of the efforts in MS and AL have until very recently been conducted almost entirely on a state to state volunteer basis, with Florida state police enforcing security, Tennesee EMT's treating patients, Arkansas firemen handling hazardous chemicals etc. just jumping in there and getting the job done without all of these ridiculous jurisdictional authority issues which plagued Louisiana efforts early on - until federal troops were finally officially requested by Gov. Blanco and General Honore' let NOPD and LA state police know in no uncertain terms that the bullshit stops right f^&kin now!
~

lwtex52
09-06-2005, 08:03 PM
www.msnbc.com September 5, 2005 | 8:58 p.m. ET - by Keith Olbermann:
Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff said it all, starting his news briefing Saturday afternoon: "Louisiana is a city that is largely underwater..."

For this, I present to the Secretary our coveted "I Can't Find My Ass With the Help of Rand McNally and a Search Party" Award......

VenusGoddess
09-06-2005, 09:39 PM
^ And people wonder why we have so many problems in our country... ::)

onlythebest
09-07-2005, 08:54 PM
Thanks,sweetie and to everyone else that was concerned for me.A friend of mine suggested that I "flee" to Houston for a couple of months so I can work and accumilate some cash that way.I said it would probably not be a good idea because of the majority of the evacuees being there may effect the economy.She said the economy is being effected everywhere in the US right now,no matter where.I think Houston is too close to NOLA.What do you guys think???


Pictures of my house and my neighborhood. Sadness. Glad to hear you and yours are safe OTB. :)

R



OTB< thank God you and yours are ok. MY pc has been in the shop so I haven't been able to respond before today.

But as soon as I heard about what happened, you were the 1st person I thought about.

I'm glad your safe.

*kisses*

Thanks,doll.

*KISSES* to you too.

Bridgette
09-07-2005, 10:08 PM
I think you're probably right. I'd be inclined to go a bit further. It's true the whole economy will be affected but strictly speaking of strip clubs, there will be bigger influxes of girls in neighboring cities/states, which will dilute customer spending even more in those areas.

LionHeart
09-08-2005, 02:39 PM
One has to wonder how much devastation could have been avoided if the federal government had not waited until hours after Hurricane Katrina had already struck the Gulf Coast before dispatching rescue workers and what pisses me off the most is that it gave them two days to arrive, according to internal documents.

TWO WHOLE DAYS !

Michael Brown did not even seek the approval from Homeland Security Secretary Chertoff untill five hours after Katrina made landfall on 8/29.

And what is worse is that among duties of these employees were given the first order of business was to "convey a positive image" about the President's response for victims.

They were more concerned about Bush's poll numbers than they were about saving people. :'(

hardkandee
09-08-2005, 02:41 PM
Did anyone see this?

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Connected--Cheney-F-himself.mov

Casual Observer
09-08-2005, 03:21 PM
One has to wonder how much devastation could have been avoided if the federal government had not waited until hours after Hurricane Katrina had already struck the Gulf Coast before dispatching rescue workers and what pisses me off the most is that it gave them two days to arrive, according to internal documents.

Read the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 before you start spouting such nonsense.

State and local municipalities are legally the first responders (in this case, Nagin and Blanco), until they authorize federal intervention. Like it or not, that's how the system works.

We now return you to your GWB-bashing session already in progress...

LionHeart
09-08-2005, 03:29 PM
^ how's that purple kool-aid taste these days ;)

Casual Observer
09-08-2005, 03:33 PM
That mean you can't read the Posse Comitatus Act, TL? Why does that not surprise us?

How's that echo chamber in which you live?

LionHeart
09-08-2005, 03:36 PM
who ?

whatever, nevermind.

If you want to defend the Ted Bundy of US President's that is your business. I said what I wanted to about this subject.

Moving on now.

Bridgette
09-09-2005, 06:08 PM
NPR has done a slightly better job of covering the plight of the people in MS and AL. Unfortunately our mainstream media simply have too much potential for sensationalism in NOLA so the true level of devestation in MS and AL doesn't get as much attention.

The drug problem in NOLA was alluded to by Ray Nagin, as well as Gov Blanco's delay in requesting federal aid. NPR has also reported that Blanco at one point actually said she needed "24 hours to think about" accepting fed help. ::) WTF was there to think about?

That Aussie article might be spinning some of the facts as well though. Come on, crack has gone "out of use" in other cities? LOL

People are now digging into Michael Brown's resume to find misstatements and evidence of incompetency. Can we say scapegoat? WTF??? It sickens me to see all this stupid blaming and name-calling. ALOT of people dropped the ball here. Not just one or two. I hate the way people who should be getting things done in this country spend so much of their time and energy pointing fingers. Ugh.

Strictly speaking of the NOLA situation, it seems to me Ray Nagin and Gen Honore have been the only govt agents in a position to do something, actually trying to get something done in a timely manner. They needed backup waaaaay earlier and it was delayed or misdirected for days. Some trucks intended for NOLA somehow wound up in Montgomery, AL or Dallas, TX - and when they finally did arrive in NOLA, the drivers had no idea what to do with the supplies so they just opened the doors and started handing stuff out to whoever came along. Apparently a Wal-Mart truck full of water was halted and not allowed to proceed making its delivery. These are just small snippets that happen to make the broadcast.

Wth were the troops when those rescue workers were being shot at? Why didn't somebody send them some damn help?

I can tell ya from personal experience drugs are an extreme issue in NOLA. But then it IS a port city and I can't imagine any port city doesn't have alot of drugs incoming - seems to me that would tend to come with the territory. NOLA certainly wouldn't be an exception.

After reading/hearing more info in the last couple days and considering some of these questions, I'm afraid I have to say I think Melonie's assessment of what was going on in the earliest days following the storm and how drugs were probably behind some of the rescue delays is right on. I really wish some of the countless politicians who win elections and approval for their "efforts" in the "war on drugs" would have ponied up when they had the chance in NOLA last week. Of course that might make them look bad though, because if we were allowed to see exactly how much drugs come through New Orleans people would start to question how it's possible for that much stuff to float through unnoticed by authorities...

serenasommers
09-09-2005, 09:17 PM
In regards to the much-touted-on-this-forum Posse Comitatus Act: perhaps all of YOU quoting it should do a bit more modern research (ps DHS stands for Dept. of Homeland Security, under whose auspices FEMA now operates):

{Chertoff's Sept. 1 statement ignored the administration's own homeland security response plan, which directed the federal government to act on its own authority to quickly provide assistance and conduct emergency operations following a major catastrophe, pre-empting state and local authorities if necessary. According to DHS' December 2004 National Response Plan (NRP), "catastrophic events," such as what occurred in New Orleans, call for heightened and "proactive" federal involvement to manage the disaster. The response plan listed "guiding principles" to govern the response to these major events. The "Guiding Principles for Proactive Federal Response" make clear that, in these "catastrophic" cases, the federal government will operate independently to provide assistance, rather than simply supporting or cajoling state authorities:

The primary mission is to save lives; protect critical infrastructure, property, and the environment; contain the event; and preserve national security.


Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances, suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of catastrophic magnitude.


Identified Federal response resources will deploy and begin necessary operations as required to commence life-safety activities.


Notification and full coordination with States will occur, but the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources. States are urged to notify and coordinate with local governments regarding a proactive Federal response.


State and local governments are encouraged to conduct collaborative planning with the Federal Government as a part of "steady-state" preparedness for catastrophic incidents."


The NRP also says that, when responding to a catastrophic incident, the federal government should start emergency operations even in the absence of clear assessment of the situation. "A detailed and credible common operating picture may not be achievable for 24 to 48 hours (or longer) after the incident," the NRP's "Catastrophic Annex" states. "As a result, response activities must begin without the benefit of a detailed or complete situation and critical needs assessment."

A Sept. 5 Los Angeles Times article quoted former FEMA chief of staff Jane Bullock saying that "[t]he moment the president declared a federal disaster [on Aug 29], it became a federal responsibility. ... The federal government took ownership over the response." Moreover, DHS' own website declares that DHS "will assume primary responsibility on March 1st [2005] for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort."}


Also, those accusing everyone else of Bush Bashing might want to ease up on their Babineaux Blanco Bashing:

{In recent days, two news articles falsely reported that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco had failed to declare a state of emergency, which had supposedly hampered the federal response. An article in the Sept. 13 edition of Newsweek claimed that "Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco seemed uncertain and sluggish, hesitant to declare martial law or a state of emergency, which would have opened the door to more Pentagon help." Likewise, a Sept. 4 Washington Post article incorrectly claimed that "As of Saturday [Sept. 3], Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency," citing an anonymous senior Bush administration official. (The Washington Post's article was later corrected, although Newsweek has yet to correct its article.) Fox News political analyst Newt Gingrich repeated the point on the September 5 O'Reilly Factor, saying, "As you [O'Reilly] point out, the governor [Blanco] failed to call the emergency. And initially, it was the governor who had to call an emergency." In fact, as the Post later noted, Blanco declared a state of emergency on August 26.}

Perhaps y'all should research that Washington Post retraction, it's easily found via Google. Oh, and in case there's any doubt regarding whether Bush declared a State of Emergency and/or authorized FEMA to act BEFORE the storm (this if from FOX news, BTW, not exactly the so-called "Liberal Media"):

{Bush Declares State of Emergency


Sunday, August 28, 2005
CRAWFORD, Texas*—*President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana on Saturday because of the approach of Hurricane Katrina and his spokesman urged residents along the coast to heed authorities' advice to evacuate.

Bush, vacationing at his ranch, was being regularly updated about the storm, which is expected to hit land early Monday, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.


Officials from the Federal Emergency Management Agency continue to coordinate with state authorities in Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama, and have prepositioned supplies in areas expected to be affected, he said.

The President's emergency declaration authorizes the FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts and to provide appropriate assistance in a number of Louisiana parishes, or counties.} >:(

DeLovely
09-09-2005, 09:18 PM
I am glad that they made Michael Brown step down as head of FEMA today. It worried me to no end that another catastrophe would occur and then we would have a repeat of what happened in New Orleans.

Another thing I'd really like to see is a recall Presidental election. Hey a girl can dream, right ;)

kitana
09-09-2005, 09:45 PM
ok so then we are back to where we started

he asked for the help and the fed did not respond in a timely fashion.

sorry, but it's the Fed's responciblilty to care for things like this and this particular administration has not done a very good job of it so far. It's a national disgrace and sadly this is not the first for this bunch of assholes either. It's just the latest of a long line of disgusting things.

BUt the thing is, if NG troops are called it takes more than 15 mins to get in touch with everyone and tell them.

They do have to be informed in person that they are being called to active duty. Then they must also go to their deployment area, then go through a basic refresher course, then they get sent to whereever; in this case NOLA.

Last Thurs, I found out a very dear friend of mine was called into active for this area. I think he should have gotten there today or tommorrow. He didn't even leave until last Sat morning for the deployment area for training and such.

Something this massive takes time to organize.

That's why I find fault with NO mayor and LA governor. It was a CAT 5! They could have asked for help way before they did, but they didn't and that's exactly where I will place the blame.

kitana
09-09-2005, 10:10 PM
But all three State Gov's asked for help days before the storm hit and for whatever reason the federal government didn't run with the ball they put it on a shelf and continued with their vacations.

Not exactly true. Mississippi and Alabama did ask for help and declare SOE's but Louisanna didn't till after the storm already hit. I think three days after to be exact.

Hell, here in Kentucky, we got the rain from the storm and our Governor called SOE the next morning, while the rain was still falling down. I only think (that I know of anyway) one live was lost up here due to Katrine. A little girl fell in a flooded ditch and got washed into a storm drain and drowned.

Now I know that isn't even CLOSE to what's going on there, but still. All of our city, county, and state police were on high alret as well as hospitals, EMT's, and NG.

We are MILES away from the gulf so we usually don't face weather like that. BUt they do every year. When the NWS issued the warnings and watches. The LA government sould have been reasy. Plain and simple.

Why did they wait for so long? They could have had state and local officials, (hell even court clerks) driving the school busses with people on them to "higher" ground. Get them out of the area. And when it was WAY apparent that they were going to get hit hard, they should have asked for help right then and there.

As far as I am concerned, the blood from NOLA is on their hands. Not GWB.

NinaDaisy
09-09-2005, 10:25 PM
I miss the Poo. It's good to know that plently of our member still enjoy intellectual discourse among the threads on boyfriend problems, asshole bleaching and selling more dances!

It's good to know we have a lot of well-rounded members.

evan_essence
09-10-2005, 11:43 AM
I am glad that they made Michael Brown step down as head of FEMA today. It worried me to no end that another catastrophe would occur and then we would have a repeat of what happened in New Orleans.Not quite correct. Brown, as of this writing, has not stepped down as head of FEMA. He was relieved of his duties as the head coordinator of Katrina relief. He's still head of FEMA. See http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/12610176.htm

Love his criticism of journalists for jumping to conclusions from government-written documents that were erroneous. Damn journalists believed what was posted on FEMA's website. ::)

-Ev

dlabtot
09-10-2005, 12:53 PM
Not exactly true. Mississippi and Alabama did ask for help and declare SOE's but Louisanna didn't till after the storm already hit. I think three days after to be exact.


Why does this keep being repeated long after it has been debunked?

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pd

Melonie
09-10-2005, 04:51 PM
Why does this keep being repeated long after it has been debunked?

Because it IS bunk ! For days after Katrina struck, Gov. Blanco did NOT delegate Louisiana law enforcement authority to any federal or out-of-state personnel. She may have requested federal aid, but that aid was still under Posse Comitatus restrictions meaning they could not operate autonomously in regard to relief efforts/security/law enforcement. It wasn't until 3 days after Katrina struck, when GWB ordered Gen. Honore and federal troops into New Orleans with authority to do whatever was necessary to control the looters and snipers and gang bangers, an order GWB gave without Gov. Blanco's specific permission and in arguable violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, that autonomous federal relief efforts were able to really begin.


Wth were the troops when those rescue workers were being shot at? Why didn't somebody send them some damn help?

The Disaster Assistance Act makes no mention whatsoever of the authority to enforce laws i.e. arresting looters or shooting snipers firing at rescuers or subduing gang bangers robbing and raping disaster victims. That authority lies solely with the Governor of the state, and is specifically DENIED to federal and out-of-state personnel by the Posse Comitatus Act. Gov. Barbour of Mississippi delegated that authority to federal and out-of-state personnel on the very day Katrina hit, and went even further by authorizing that looters and others interfering with relief efforts in MS could be shot on sight. Because of Gov. Barbour's delegation of authority, for example Florida state troopers were able to drive over from the Florida panhandle and immediately go into action in MS.

But Gov. Blanco did NOT delegate that authority to federal and out-of-state personnel. This meant that prior to GWB's ordering in Gen. Honore with 'emergency powers' authority 3 days after Katrina hit, that any federal or out-of state personnel in Louisiana had no more rights to deal with looters/snipers/gang bangers than an ordinary citizen. For that matter Gov. Blanco did not send in the only other assets who were at that point legally authorized to deal with the sniper situation either i.e. the 1000 Louisiana state police at her disposal.

dlabtot
09-10-2005, 05:24 PM
I'm not talking about sending in troops to shoot at people trying to find food and water, I'm talking about providing help to those people. Posse Comitatus does nothing to prohibit the the Feds from providing disaster aid in the form of food, water, transportation, etc. Posse Comitatus bans the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines from participating in arrests, searches, seizure of evidence and other police-type activity on U.S. soil. It does not prohibit them from participating in disaster relief efforts. In fact, when there was a forest fire in my neighborhood, an Army brigade was brought in to help fight it. This Posse Comitatus talking point is just another RW red-herring.


At any rate, the statement "Mississippi and Alabama did ask for help and declare SOE's but Louisanna didn't till after the storm already hit." has been demonstrated to be untrue.

I'm by no means trying to excuse anyone involved in this mess. I have no loyalty to Blanco, let alone Nagin. But facts are facts. The new Times article gives a good overview that spares no one: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/11/national/nationalspecial/11response.html?pagewanted=all

serenasommers
09-10-2005, 06:56 PM
Posse Comitatus has also never included the National Guard and Coast Guard, who are the primary rescuers involved in this situation, see the following article entitled "The Myth of Posse Comitatus" by Major Craig Treiblock of the JAG of the Army Reserves:

http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/Trebilcock.htm

As has been previously pointed out, the Posse Comitatus Act deals with the Army, Navy, Airforce and Marines acting as policemen (i.e., arresting individuals) in the US, NOT acting in a rescue situation.

I can't believe we are still talking about the LA Governor situation, but here we go again:

{ 'Wash Post' Runs A Key Katrina Correction

September 04, 2005 11:30 PM ET


NEW YORK In its Sunday edition, the Washington Post quoted a "senior Bush official" who said that "as of Saturday [Louisiana Governor] Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency." This, of course, was meant to make the governor look foolish and spread the blame around for the disastrous response to the disaster, though it was hard to imagine on what grounds the newspaper would quote an unnamed source in this case.

Several hours of blogosphere howling ensued. Later in the day, the Post ran this correction, or rather, 180-degree turn:

"A Sept. 4 article on the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina incorrectly said that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D) had not declared a state of emergency. She declared an emergency on Aug. 26." }


Hmm, wonder who the unnamed "senior Bush official" was. Smells like Karl Rove to me. It's unbelievable that a week later, a week AFTER the Post had to retract that story, people are still buying it.


And NinaDaisy, in a way, we are still talking about bleaching assholes, at least in regards to the Bush administration's attempts to make themselves and Michael Brown look good in the face of this tragedy. Or should I say "whitewashing assholes".

evan_essence
09-12-2005, 04:08 AM
I heard the official declaration that Political Poo should be evacuated because it got way too deep in there, but I didn't know the refug... er.. I mean evacuees were going to take up armed camp here. I suggest we divide up the evacuees equally among the various forum areas so it's not a big burden on any one moderator. ::)

-Ev

dlabtot
09-12-2005, 10:08 AM
From the Washington Post ombudsman:


The problem came in the continuation of the story on Page A24, when it was reported that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, a Democrat, "still had not declared a state of emergency," according to an anonymous "senior Bush official."

This one-liner, within an otherwise well-done story, turned out to be a classic error, encapsulating almost all of the hot-button issues that produce so much of the criticism aimed at the media these days by all kinds of people. Some of them seem genuinely dissatisfied with journalistic procedures -- especially the proliferation of anonymous sources in situations that don't seem to merit such protection -- and some are on all sides of the political divide who use such moments to bash the media for alleged bias.

As it turned out, the information was wrong. Blanco had declared a state of emergency on Aug. 26, before the hurricane made landfall. That was easily checkable, but it wasn't checked. The source of the statement was a single anonymous Bush administration official. The story did not explain why this official had been granted anonymity to take a potshot at the governor or whether reporters had pressed on this issue. And editors allowed it into the paper that way.

The Post moved quickly to correct this. The paper's Web site, washingtonpost.com, posted a correction that same day in red letters at the top of the news story, which was quite visible and effective. The newspaper ran a correction the following day, a two-sentence item that was not even the lead in the daily correction box on Page A2 and, oddly, did not mention that the source of the information was "a senior Bush official."

The incident produced hundreds of critical e-mails, many of them undoubtedly provoked by a critique by Media Matters for America, an online group dedicated to "documenting conservative misinformation throughout the media." In an e-mail to me and his subscribers, the site's president, David Brock, said the paper's reliance on an anonymous source in this case "defies reason" because it was an assertion of fact that was easily checkable, and allowing the paper to be used to deliver a political attack by an anonymous official "is unconscionable." Furthermore, he said that a source who lies to a reporter forfeits the right to anonymity, and that the situation deserved a follow-up story.

Assistant Managing Editor Liz Spayd, who oversees national coverage, said: "We were given incorrect information by a senior official in position to know and who is normally reliable. In the rush of the day, we failed to take the steps we should have to verify whether the information was correct. It obviously was not, and when we found out we moved quickly to correct it. We don't identify sources whose identity we've agreed not to reveal. And we have no way of determining whether the person was intentionally misleading us. In this case, we went to the person after the fact, and that person said the mistake was not purposeful. We tried to make clear in the story that the official was pushing blame toward local officials and perhaps had a political motive in doing so."

The Post clearly knows that it made a mistake in this case, and, as Spayd says, "It's impossible for us to read the person's mind to really know" if someone intentionally lied. The Post doesn't have a written policy on what to do if a source lies, and it treats such instances on a case-by-case basis. The reporters did get an explanation from the source about what he meant to say, but I'm not going to repeat it and provide another free, anonymous shot.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/12/AR2005091200404_pf.html

gee, maybe they should have a policy on what to do if an anonymous source lies to them. I would suggest revealing the source's identity, the fact the he lied, and not using him as a source in the future.