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SportsWriter2
08-22-2005, 06:51 AM
I'm sure she told him the same thing about your performance as she told you about his. /:O
Oh no, they NEVER do that. She'll taunt the BF with how much bigger and better Frazier was and will be. This girl is a natural born mindfuck. In Renaissance City, MW would be well into a smashed windshield kind of adventure. :O

Jenny
08-22-2005, 06:52 AM
But the bulk of what you've written in the last two pages implies undue malicious influence, if not on the part of MW, then the DJ. Surely you see the dichotomy?
No. Not in the slightest bit. Thinking that his DJ friend is a dick who evidently thinks it's amusing to "watch out for his boy" instead of give real advice to the girl who is asking him, and tell girls lies so MW can finger them in his booth is kind of gross does not imply that I think the sex is non-consensual. It implies that MW has gross friends.



No mystery. Some girls who are as pretty as you like fun sex more than you do. MW's fun friend is in love... with Frazier. :)

Are you out of your mind right now? Okay - now, I don't get directly paid for sex and I certainly wouldn't enjoy it in the scenario that MW has set up - I would hope for some respect and discretion in those people who got a deep discount to fuck me, but I think that has something to do with the fact that I am an adult who is a little brighter than your average bear. However those activities that I do get directly paid for I may enjoy very much - however I still get paid the going rate. If she is this lovely she could be A) making money at work and having sex for free (the way so many of us do it) or B) making good money while having the sex. Nothing to do with her enjoyment of sex - I'm sure she would enjoy it just as much for the going rate.


i'm sure you know it's just a booty call. i just wonder if she knows it's because sometimes strippers don't know it's just booty call. Well, strippers do have those pesky feelings, and when you run around telling the young girl that she is so special, and have your pervert friends do the same thing, she might think that she actually is.

Jenny
08-22-2005, 06:55 AM
I don't know too many SC DJs that wear halos. Oh.. with the exception of your pink site guru DJ that despises me for whatever reason. ::) Oh I remember, because everything I say is a lie. Things that I talk about could never happen in a SC. Those blinders must really begin to chafe the scalp after awhile.
Is this for my benefit? Because nothing I have said doubts you for a moment. I just think your friend is distasteful. And again - there is some distance between wearing a halo and manipulating girls into sexually gratifying your friends while you watch. Like I said, weird, distasteful, manipulative and homoerotic.

Moneywise
08-22-2005, 07:04 AM
Is this for my benefit? Because nothing I have said doubts you for a moment. I just think your friend is distasteful. And again - there is some distance between wearing a halo and manipulating girls into sexually gratifying your friends while you watch. Like I said, weird, distasteful, manipulative and homoerotic.

No Jenny. I was simply using one of your well known pinkie DJ princes and equating his perception of reality to what I see. I know you don't doubt me. Your responses tell me so.

I would also like to apologize for calling out (or baiting) someone from the other side. We're supposed to be behaving ourselves for the next couple of days. Sorry about that.

In terms of your belief about P, I will simply say adults will do what adults do. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong. Ms. J, the girl that thought I was a porn director, and everyone else that participates is above the age of 18. That makes them adults and therefore responsible for their own actions.

SportsWriter2
08-22-2005, 07:06 AM
If she is this lovely she could be A) making money at work and having sex for free (the way so many of us do it) or B) making good money while having the sex. Nothing to do with her enjoyment of sex - I'm sure she would enjoy it just as much for the going rate.
Why can't you imagine that there might be a fun place between free and the going rate? It's a place where a girl can try things she would never do with her BF and almost be a ho. ;)


Well, strippers do have those pesky feelings, and when you run around telling the young girl that she is so special, and have your pervert friends do the same thing, she might think that she actually is.
Some booty calls are more special than others. :)

Moneywise
08-22-2005, 07:09 AM
- I would hope for some respect and discretion in those people who got a deep discount to fuck me,

I've been discreet. I haven't told anyone. This board, to me, is nothing more than a place to share inconspicuously. What wouldthis place be liek without the sharing of thoughts and experiences anonymously?

Deep discount? $300 for 5 hours and I took her to see the movie she had been wanting to see. Add another $75 ($40 for the movies and 35 for gas) and you're closer to $400 and up to $80 per hr. :P

You know it's not like I picked her up, went straight to the room and pumped her full of love. That not how it happened and obviously not what I wrote. We had plenty of fun that night talking and enjoying a movie I initially thought I would not like.

Jenny
08-22-2005, 07:17 AM
In terms of your belief about P, I will simply say adults will do what adults do. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong. Ms. J, the girl that thought I was a porn director, and everyone else that participates is above the age of 18. That makes them adults and therefore responsible for their own actions.
Indeed. And I haven't doubted that the sex (or the fingering) was consensual. However, people can be "responsible for their own actions" and still be manipulated (yes even adults. Even barely-adults). And people can still be not nice even though others are adults. It's like now you're saying, "Yeah, my friend's a manipulative asshole, but the girl is over the age of consent so it doesn't count." It still counts! He's still distasteful.

Moneywise
08-22-2005, 07:24 AM
It's like now you're saying, "Yeah, my friend's a manipulative asshole, but the girl is over the age of consent so it doesn't count." It still counts! He's still distasteful.

He's a SC DJ not the Pope. I would venture to say there's probably a bit of separation between the two job descriptions.

Jenny
08-22-2005, 07:35 AM
He's a SC DJ not the Pope. I would venture to say there's probably a bit of separation between the two job descriptions.
Oh, I find the Pope distasteful and manipulative too. And I have this funny idea that being a DJ, in a stripclub or otherwise, doesn't exempt you from the bonds of human decency (the modicum of decency, of which the first is the most important, remember?) Anyway - I am no longer getting paid for posting on this message board. So I must clean my room and get a booklist. Love you to death MW - but not literally, but I still don't think that is nice or cool, for a DJ or the Pope or anyone else. A DJ hooking up a hooker with a desirous customer is one thing. Cashing in on a friendship and trust factor to convince her to service you is quite another.

SportsWriter2
08-22-2005, 08:32 AM
Oh, I find the Pope distasteful and manipulative too.
If this will ease your troubled mind, Jenny, P gave MW the condom. Would the Pope have done that?

Jenny
08-22-2005, 04:40 PM
^^^
Alright. I shall grant that P is marginally less distasteful than the Pope. Let us now focus on the cheap, slutty dancers, shall we...?

Moneywise
08-22-2005, 07:20 PM
haha!

:grouphug: All together now. Let's sing it.

Cumbajah my lord cumbajahhhhh
oohhhh lord cum baaa jahhhh!

evan_essence
08-23-2005, 01:47 AM
Oh no, they NEVER do that. She'll taunt the BF with how much bigger and better Frazier was and will be. This girl is a natural born mindfuck. In Renaissance City, MW would be well into a smashed windshield kind of adventure. :OWell, my post was not meant to be taken literally, so much as it was meant to be read as a sarcastic commentary. To wit: What does it say about what she told MW if she lies to her boyfriend? If she lies to bf about MW, did she lie to MW about bf? Or if she told the truth to MW about bf, would she lie to bf about MW? So yes, I'd be worried about what she said to the bf and why they're both staring at him.

-Ev

evan_essence
08-23-2005, 02:01 AM
In terms of your belief about P, I will simply say adults will do what adults do. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong. Ms. J, the girl that thought I was a porn director, and everyone else that participates is above the age of 18. That makes them adults and therefore responsible for their own actions.Hey, that scenario - "The girl that thought I was a porn director" - reminds me. I don't want any more guff about dancers who spin a fantasy for the customer from here on. If MW can role play a porn director for a dancer, and you all are fine with letting the dancer beware, then I can role play I'm g*ddamn Queen Elizabeth and expect the buyer to beware.

-Ev

Moneywise
08-23-2005, 05:16 AM
What does it say about what she told MW if she lies to her boyfriend? If she lies to bf about MW, did she lie to MW about bf? Or if she told the truth to MW about bf, would she lie to bf about MW? So yes, I'd be worried about what she said to the bf and why they're both staring at him.
-Ev

For the record they weren’t “staring” at me. I never said that. I said that that very moment when I rounded the corner from the booth I locked eyes with them for a second. You know it happens occasionally. It could happen at the supermarket with you and the guy that thinks you’re hotter than the sauce on the shelves. No staring.


Look, he knows who I am and that I have, at some point, been a very high paying customer ITC with Ms. L and w/ Ms. J. I still occasionally surprise Ms. J w/ a VIP visit although those occasions are few and far between nowadays.


Perhaps he sees me as a money source? You don’t fuck with the source. You’re fucking with your groceries if you do that. Perhaps he’s happy that after she and I got together she seemed more laid back and wasn’t sweating him for a few days. Maybe he’s grateful. I’m a rather intimidating individual too. Perhaps that plays into it too. When I smile I can light up a room but when I don’t smile I have been told I can be very intimidating. I stand 6’3” tall and weight about 265 (old football weight). Hell, you can take so many angles. Why bother? The bottom line is I have known her for two years and she knows I can sense deception. She hasn’t given him any details of our play date.



Hey, that scenario - "The girl that thought I was a porn director" - reminds me. I don't want any more guff about dancers who spin a fantasy for the customer from here on. If MW can role play a porn director for a dancer, and you all are fine with letting the dancer beware, then I can role play I'm g*ddamn Queen Elizabeth and expect the buyer to beware.
-Ev

Hello Queenie.

The girl that we toyed with is 19 yrs old. She talked about a mile a minute and spends more time in the booth trying to get drunk than anything else. Why not have a lil fun. It’s not like she didn’t provoke anything. Do you want to know how it started? She stood there in the booth while talking with P and rubbed her ass in my crotch as I sat minding my own business on the stool directly behind her. She was doing this little seductive dance and Frazier woke right up. I can follow a lead with the best of them so I did just that. P just played it up because she was talking about how she wanted to get into porn. What brought on the porn conversation? P and I were checking out one of his fave websites when she snuck into the booth.


Yes, he’s a typical guy. He likes porn.

xdamage
08-23-2005, 07:31 AM
I'm starting with the assumption that she wanted advice from the person she asked advice from.

I started with the assumption that she is an adult and has the good sense not seriously consider the advice of anyone she doesn't know really well.

Maybe it comes down to a matter of general attitude about how we perceive ourselves and others.

See I rarely ask other people for advice about matters that don't directly pertain to them, or don't pertain to matters of a neutral nature. But when it comes to personal matters about choices I make that pertain to myself, and really only myself, I rarely seek out opinions from others. If I do I so I limit my seeking to the few who I trust. Why?

I assume other people are basically in it for themselves, and I am not going to turn over my ability to make decisions for myself, about myself, to someone else that I don't know well and trust. Understand that's not a judgemental point of view, it's just human nature that people are first and foremost self-centric.

For the same reason I avoid giving others advice about significant matters that pertain only to them because the last thing I want is someone later regretting their choice and making it my responsibility for what they chose to do. I really don't want to be responsible for someone elses choices. Thats a ridiculous amount of responsibility to put on someone elses shoulders. And chances are any advice I give them will be skewed to best serve my interests.

Now I don't mind someone asking me for an opinion if it's done with the mindset that they are they are still taking on 100% responsibility for the choice and for the outcome. But then they are just asking me what would I do in the same situation, which should have little or no effect on what they choose do.

Was the DJ an asshole or operating out of his own interest? Maybe, probably. But from the point of view of the dancer that's irrelevant.

She needs to take full responsibility for the choices about her own personal life, particularly when it comes to significant decisions.

If she is of the mindset that she can just ask other people that she barely knows or trusts for advice and make it their responsibility to choose for her them she needs unlearn that mindset and learn that its simple not okay to make others responsible for our choices. If you hand over your ability to make decisions for yourself to others you give up your right to bitch about the outcomes since you didn't take responsibility for the choices to begin with.

I guess the reason I am having trouble getting overly interested in what made the DJ's mind tick is that it seems to me either she is a grown-up and made up her own mind regardless, or she is still a kiddie and has some lessons to learn about making her own decisions and not asking others to choose for her.

At best it seems to me she knew what she was doing and is mature and the DJs advice was irrelevant to her decision.

At worst it seems to me that they are both immature kiddies and acted out of self interest, and I can't get terribly excited over the DJ being any more immature then her. Thats just what happens when you put two immature people together in a situation in which they are in over their heads. They both act stupidly. If I am going to cut her slack for being immature then by the same reasoning I need to cut the DJ an equal amount of slack.

If the DJ had forced her my thinking would be different, but when it comes to individuals making choices out of free will, I think we need to teach people about how to see situations in terms of taking on personal responsibility, not teach them to focus on who is doing us (or others) wrong.

Jenny
08-23-2005, 08:11 AM
Okay - again - you are talking about something completely different, taking a position/conetention I never contended, shoving under my face and demanding that I defend it. And, I'm not gonna. In other words you are talking nonsense. Like what you assume - fine. It doesn't contradict what I said, and seeing as I wasn't sitting there TELLING you what you are assuming it is completely irrelevent, unless we all find it wildly interesting (which, surely, we all do - but still. From a rhetoirc standpoint.) So it seems to me that you are contending that the DJ didn't do anything ALL that bad because nothing bad happened and that people are all basically bad and looking to take advantage of each other and the sooner we all learn that the better, and that there can be no expectation of behaviour that doesn't that that into account. Again, I'm glad you are not a friend of mine, with that kind of ethical baseline and I simply disagree. I think that I can hold people to at least the same ethical standard to which i hold myself, and that does not involve lying to them in order to have one of my friends gratified (rreally, kid, if you let him finger you, he'll make you a STAR!). Well - one year at Christmas a friend and I made a bunch of presents (because we are all crafty people, handy with the soldering) that we had seen in a window and I told them that he had come up with them. So there - I lied. But I cannot help but see that as being different and less culpable). As to force - I don't think the DJ needs to hold her down while MW rapes her to make him a bad guy. So evidently my standard for ethical behaviour is much, much higher than yours, if that is your baseline, and if you are not interested in what is making the DJs mind tick (I think that is a misnomer, by the way - I don't think we any of us are pyschoanalysing this DJ so much as criticiznig his described behaviour) than why are you arguing with me about him?

Jenny
08-23-2005, 08:25 AM
When I smile I can light up a room but when I don’t smile I have been told I can be very intimidating. I stand 6’3” tall and weight about 265 (old football weight). Hell, you can take so many angles. Why bother? The bottom line is I have known her for two years and she knows I can sense deception. She hasn’t given him any details of our play date.
Hee. I'm sure you're delightful and/or terribly frightening when you put your mind to it. But you don't think you could be inflating your spidey sense for deception a little?


The girl that we toyed with is 19 yrs old.
Oh. So she was barely of age. That makes it better.


Why not have a lil fun. Indeed - and why not, while your at it, have fun that doesn't involved your friend manipulating his colleagues for your gratification? (The homoeroticism of him watching is entirely up to you guys. Because I am open minded). There are many ways of doing this such as A) finding a girl who will consent to this WITHOUT P's undue and unprofessional interference, B) simply adequately paying one of the girls to ensure this consent (I mean you've managed for like $5.00 before) or C) simply enjoying what contact she is kind and giving enough to enjoy with you without P's undue and unprofessional interference. Now - don't tell me. To you, these options are not nearly as much fun as lying to and manipulating young girls.


It’s not like she didn’t provoke anything. Do you want to know how it started?
Ah! So it is her fault. She aroused you and that forced P to start making shit up. No, your right - in fact I think there is a medical term for that. No, wait. There's not. C'mon man. Like YOU'RE so aroused that HE need to take it to the next level? Has it occurred to you that the reason he wants you to come to his house is NOT to fuck the waitress? Seriously - I am not criticizing, but I am seriously the only one reading the blatant and aggressive homoeroticism here?

xdamage
08-23-2005, 08:49 AM
...this DJ so much as criticiznig his described behaviour) than why are you arguing with me about him?

I guess I just find it interesting that you're strongly focused on the guys behavior in the matter, and don't seem to be equally as disturbed by her behavior. One seems to be terribly wrong, one forgiveable? I guess it just feels sexist, with a strong anti-male bias is all.

Jenny
08-23-2005, 09:22 AM
I guess I just find it interesting that you're strongly focused on the guys behavior in the matter, and don't seem to be equally as disturbed by her behavior. One seems to be terribly wrong, one forgiveable? I guess it just feels sexist, with a strong anti-male bias is all.
Well, what in her behaviour is there for me to feel disturbed about? She exchanged a service for money, was paid and went home. I've established I don't think she's bright (or to use my previous metaphore "a particularly chippy cookie"), but that is hardly morally culpable. It has nothing to with sexism, feminism or anything social/political movement about which you are so misguided. And I obviously noticed the the behaviour of one of the guy's specifically because it seems to culpable and wrong - especially if, as everyone here suggests, she probably would have gone anyway. Then it's just needless and pointlessly vicious.

xdamage
08-23-2005, 10:34 AM
Well, what in her behaviour is there for me to feel disturbed about? She exchanged a service for money, was paid and went home. I've established I don't think she's bright (or to use my previous metaphore "a particularly chippy cookie"), but that is hardly morally culpable. It has nothing to with sexism, feminism or anything social/political movement about which you are so misguided. And I obviously noticed the the behaviour of one of the guy's specifically because it seems to culpable and wrong - especially if, as everyone here suggests, she probably would have gone anyway. Then it's just needless and pointlessly vicious.

Well some would define her behavior as wrong, both morally and legally. Others would define MWs behavior as wrong morally and legally for making the offer. Still others would find the DJs behavior morally and legally wrong for encouraging her to engage in prostitution (or to 'turn tricks', the slangish term you used which better captures the negative feelings assoicated with it).

I just find it interesting that you are very objective and neutral about her parts in the matter, or maybe even sympathetic (after all she is only 19), but you react so strongly and negatively to the guys part.

You know if we really thought there was nothing wrong with prostitution at all (or at least in some circumstances) then for the DJ to advise her to take the job would be no different then him giving career advice to a hot female frend to become a stripper because the guys would pay her a lot to see/feel her dance erotically, even though in many parts of the world and in many peoples minds lap dancing is really no better then fucking for $$$s.

Actually if we really had no feelings at all about her exchanging a service for money then when it comes to the DJ advising her to do (whatever his reasons) we would be neutral, no different then if he advised her on other job matters.

But I suspect that the truth of the matter is we don't really view her actions in the matter as entirely neutral, and while in the quote above you painted her part in the matter in a neutral and objective way (i.e., not disturbing at all, simply exchanging services for money), you painted the DJs part in the matter as manipulative, tricking this girl into doing something wrong, etc.

It may make sense to you that the situations are unequal, but to me I just see three adults who participated in a situation, and it's not clear to me that anyone feels like anyone did anyone else wrong, nor is it clear to me that anyone feels like they did something wrong (anymore then you might think its wrong to be paid for lap dances, even though many other people in the world view that as wrong sex work).

Keep in mind we are hearing the DJs words indirectly via MW. Some lost in translation there, and beyond that we really don't know what the DJ told the stripper or vice-versa. Who knows, maybe the DJ is just a dick who brags a lot, or maybe he is playing MW trying to make himself look cool, or maybe he took a cut of the money? No idea, but I guess the key point is you seem to be having a much stronger emotional reaction to the guys part then the girls part in this exchange.

Jenny
08-23-2005, 11:03 AM
Well some would define her behavior as wrong, both morally and legally. Others would define MWs behavior as wrong morally and legally for making the offer. Still others would find the DJs behavior morally and legally wrong for encouraging her to engage in prostitution (or to 'turn tricks', the slangish term you used which better captures the negative feelings assoicated with it).
Yeah, but I obviously don't. So you take up that point with those who do find prostitution that distasteful


I just find it interesting that you are very objective and neutral about her parts in the matter, or maybe even sympathetic (after all she is only 19), but you react so strongly and negatively to the guys part.
Why is there a plural? I've made it clear that the only problem I have with MW's part in that particular incident is having a distasteful association.



You know if we really thought there was nothing wrong with prostitution at all (or at least in some circumstances) then for the DJ to advise her to take the job would be no different then him giving career advice to a hot female frend to become a stripper because the guys would pay her a lot to see/feel her dance erotically, even though in many parts of the world and in many peoples minds lap dancing is really no better then fucking for $$s.
Well. No. That is a faulty analogy. If the DJ advised her to get into exotic dancing because he had a friend that wanted to look at her naked, that would be a little more analagous. As for the rest - I know. I have made that exact point many a time. If you want to talk about prostiution and its role in society and its impact of women I would be facinated - but not here. You'll have to start your own thread.


Actually if we really had no feelings at all about her exchanging a service for money then when it comes to the DJ advising her to do (whatever his reasons) we would be neutral, no different then if he advised her on other job matters.
Well yes. And if he advised her with someone else's agenda without disclosing that agenda, let alone LIED to her her about the potential job and what it entailed and advancement opportunities, etc. I think we would all see that as unethical. At least I would. You apparently don't believe in asking for advice, or have any expectations for decent treatment from your friends.



But I suspect that the truth of the matter is we don't really view her actions in the matter as entirely neutral
Okay - this is a loaded question. I think for the purposes of this conversation - in terms of the ethics of the DJ I am and can view prostiution as entirely neutral. For other purposes - like for example a debate about whether kids should be able to engage in prostitution as an after school job as soon as they turn 14, no, for that purpose I wouldn't see it as neutral.


and while in the quote above you painted her part in the matter in a neutral and objective way (i.e., not disturbing at all, simply exchanging services for money), you painted the DJs part in the matter as manipulative, tricking this girl into doing something wrong, etc.
But the DJ WAS manipulative and has a proven track record of lying to dancers to have to gratify his friend. I'm not seeing the problem here. Are you just determined that the filthy whore had it coming to her, or what?


It may make sense to you that the situations are unequal, but to me I just see three adults who participated in a situation, and it's not clear to me that anyone feels like anyone did anyone else wrong, nor is it clear to me that anyone feels like they did something wrong (anymore then you might think its wrong to be paid for lap dances, even though many other people in the world view that as wrong sex work).
Well, lap dancing is sex work. And many people do view that as wrong. And they have very reasonable grounds for that. And that, interestingly enough, has nothing to do, even analgously, with the situation at hand. I similarly have heard of three adults (I don't even get this focusing on the adulthood. They are all in a strip joint. They are adults by definition. And the equality of the situation is similarly irrelevant because I am not talking about financial coersion or youthful inexperience when matched against the manipulative adults). As for anyone feeling that anyone did something wrong: that is because, first of all, one of the parties is not fully informed. Which is WHAT MADE IT WRONG IN THE FIRST PLACE. And what - because the jerkass DJ thinks it's okay to lie to his colleagues so that they will sexually gratify his friend, we are all meant to see that as okay? Or, is this one of those things, where because I am also a filthy whore who lets men touch her for money that I don't get to have an opinion on the matter? Wasn't it you that posted before something to the effect that because I was intelligent and might be pretty that my opinions could be safely discounted?


Keep in mind we are hearing the DJs words indirectly via MW. Some lost in translation there, and beyond that we really don't know what the DJ told the stripper or vice-versa.
Indeed - as I said I am responding to what is present in the stroy. I MW is taking artistic license - I think it made a fairly unpleasant story. If he is misinformed and the DJ in fact told her something different - well, then. Shucks. I can offer the DJ an apology if I ever me be him. However, MW has described a pattern of behaviour here, not just one incident.


No idea, but I guess the key point is you seem to be having a much stronger emotional reaction to the guys part then the girls part in this exchange.
Well. As I said. It is one of the guys that was the dick and that elicited the response. To me, that doesn't seem mysterious. In fact I would think it is so glaringly obvious as to not require elucidation.

xdamage
08-23-2005, 12:15 PM
For other purposes - like for example a debate about whether kids should be able to engage in prostitution as an after school job as soon as they turn 14, no, for that purpose I wouldn't see it as neutral.


Of course. But lets not have a discussion though about is prostitution right or wrong. Obviously there are cases where its wrong because the people involved arent capable of weighing or being responsible for the consequences. In this case she is 19 and while she will be a little better able to make judgements at 20, and more so at 30, and so on, she is of legal age, and not entirely new to dancing so I assume she is reasonably capable of deciding what she wants to do.



Are you just determined that the filthy whore had it coming to her, or what?


Thats what I think is at the heart of it. Some deep seated notion that if we acknowledge she chose this, independent of what the DJ told her, that we are saying that makes her a dirty whore that had it coming to her.

I sure am not saying that. Besides we agreed its just services for $$s (at least for this discussion) so thats not my objection.

The reason I originally replied is that you implied she is retarded, and was manipulated into turning tricks by these guys. Thats it. That seemed a terribly lopsided focus on the story and suggested that she was incapable of deciding on her own, and that she did what she did because these guys were manipulating her to turn tricks.

If you think she is sufficiently capable person (sufficient to make decisions), able to judge and weigh the input of others, and your beef is strictly with the DJs behavior thats fine.

But the main story (or at least the one I find interesting) is the story between her and MW. The DJ (dick or no) isnt what decided it for her. MW has been working on this for a while. It sounds to me like she rather likes MW (hey it sounds like the DJ rather likes MW) enough to take it outside the club and thats what decided it for her.

The Snark
08-23-2005, 03:26 PM
I fail to see how mildly sleazy behaviour in a strip club is remarkable, let alone worth getting exorcised about. The DJ's actions may have been "not nice", but then Not Nice is normal in a strip club.

As far as Ms J being a dimwit: apparently she had great sex with a man Katrine describes as "fantasy hot", and got paid $300 to boot. We should all be so dumb.

Moneywise
08-23-2005, 07:54 PM
he'll make you a STAR!

Shit!!! Were you a fly on the wall that night? That's almost exactly what he said. The let him finger you part is a bit corny. I believe the convo went something like:

Girl comes into the booth and sneaks up on P showing me his fave site.

Girl: ohhhh. I like that website. I wanna do some porn one day.

P: (pointing at me with this smirk from hell) He's a big time porn director out in Cali.

Girl: Really?? hehe (blushing)

P: Yeah. He'll make you a star.

This he says as she begins to back it up to my stool and grind her ass into my crotch. Now who started it??? What's a customer to do when faced with adversity??? Handle his business. I had to represent the Cali porn directors soundly and swiftly.

Katrine
08-24-2005, 08:01 AM
Why can't you imagine that there might be a fun place between free and the going rate? It's a place where a girl can try things she would never do with her BF and almost be a ho. ;)


Wow, self-denial is a demanding mistress. You might have yourself convinced of this Sporty, but the truth is that the girls you all choose are simply not particularly adept negotiators. They are spoiled and lazy. Men tell them how beautiful they are to get in their pants and they begin to internalize it as being the only truth. The doubt their cognitive abilities, then self-medicate to further numb the heinous truth.

Jenny
08-24-2005, 08:16 AM
Thank you Kat - I'm not the only one going "What fun place?" and "An almost-ho? As opposed to a cheap ho? You couldn't do things you wouldn't do with your boyfriend at the going rate? Why not?"

I've personally never met a submissive - either a dedicated one or one in it for play - who will not do things with her boyfriend. Submissive is a very socially acceptable place for women - it's constantly eroticized, etc. There is no stigma or shame attached to a woman wanting to be tied and spanked and have her hair pulled and told that she is bad (or good) girl. This is, in fact, NORMAL, as in EVERY woman in the world (at least in North America) does this (one of my roommates prefers to do the spanking. But even she takes it once in a while). Sporty - I think you need to face that it is YOUR fantasy that is being catered to, not theirs - you obviously get huge charge out of being the only guy that can do them right, and that is what is really going on here.

Jenny
08-24-2005, 08:28 AM
Shit!!! Were you a fly on the wall that night? That's almost exactly what he said. The let him finger you part is a bit corny. I believe the convo went something like:

Girl comes into the booth and sneaks up on P showing me his fave site.

Girl: ohhhh. I like that website. I wanna do some porn one day.

P: (pointing at me with this smirk from hell) He's a big time porn director out in Cali.

Girl: Really?? hehe (blushing)

P: Yeah. He'll make you a star.

This he says as she begins to back it up to my stool and grind her ass into my crotch. Now who started it??? What's a customer to do when faced with adversity??? Handle his business. I had to represent the Cali porn directors soundly and swiftly.
And it turns out I can read a story after all. Yay for my four years at university. As for who started it - clearly he did. Now really - apparently I am the only one who is still capable of being shocked at someone in a stripclub exploiting his or her colleagues - and then calling them friends afterwards. I have no intention of getting over it. In fact I think I am going to put my remaining innocence and shocked indignation in a little box and place it on a high shelf next to my straw giraffe and My Little Ponies and guard it carefully against you nasty, bad men.

xdamage
08-24-2005, 03:26 PM
And it turns out I can read a story after all. Yay for my four years at university. As for who started it - clearly he did. Now really - apparently I am the only one who is still capable of being shocked at someone in a stripclub exploiting his or her colleagues - and then calling them friends afterwards. I have no intention of getting over it. In fact I think I am going to put my remaining innocence and shocked indignation in a little box and place it on a high shelf next to my straw giraffe and My Little Ponies and guard it carefully against you nasty, bad men.

I assumed she knew they were playing and it was just a game, but maybe not.

Then I started thinking, lets say not. Lets say she believed that MW is a big time porn director and she figured she could trade sex for $$ (well sex for work in the business which would lead to money or fame, whichever it is she wants).

Somehow I am having trouble getting any more worked up over that then I do over a PL who spends thousands of $$s on a stripper in hopes of getting sex because he has been intentionally led to believe that he is really liked and could end up in a romantic relationship (and some of these PL types fall head over heals in love with strippers and are intentionally lead on for years). Dont get me wrong, its the PLs responsibility to protect themselves from being mislead. The strippers should do whatever they fuck they want to maximize their dollar. More correctly, most strippers do whatever they fuck they want and the PL should just assume that pretty much whatever they are being told or no matter how much she smiles, its deceit (also called "working") to get more $$s out of the PL. But then I could don my hat of "isn't sad how strippers take advantage of the lonely sad types and intentionally deceive them to make more $$s?" Boohoo. Nah, thats pointless. Is much more likely and reasonable to ask the PL to grow a backbone then it is likely that strippers will stop feeding off these sad lonely types of people.

Of course two wrongs don't make a right, but I guess I have my image of strip clubs as being the place where $$s and sex are traded, and everyone has their rationalization for why its okay to be deceitful to get what they want. When it comes to trading sex for $$s or vice versa it seems that deceit is a commonly used tool to get more of the other (depending on whichever it is that you value more).

Admittedly you'd like your colleagues to watch your back and not the customers, but when it comes to the stripclubs these places reek of deceit. I don my anti-BS gear before entering. I just assume club owners, strippers, DJs are all full of shit.

Actually I have on rare occassion met some straight forward honest types of strippers. I assume there are also some straight up honest types of DJs and who knows maybe even some honest club owners. But if you really think she was deceived, then I understand why you are upset at the DJ, but I am having trouble sharing in your surprise. I guess the lesson is learned. Trust noone in the stripclubs to be honest, not even your co-workers.

mr_punk
08-24-2005, 04:23 PM
I do however think that if they are very beautiful and willing to give it up that they SHOULD be making good money, and if they aren't then there is something wrong - like the cookie is maybe not as chippy as it could be.yeah, and a stripper SHOULD work sober, but quite often they do not. you're right, there is something wrong, but i don't think it's solely due to a lack of intelligence. it may be due to simple ignorance combined with a startling lack of self-discipline. unless, you think sc owners or other strippers actually drop that outlaw mentality for a moment and go through the trouble to explain to young strippers the ramifications of working as a stripper.

I think when you say flaky I would say not bright. When I say flaky I think I mean something different.when i call a stripper flaky. depending on the context, it could mean she's never on time, you can't trust her to do she says will do. it could also mean that i think she has an irrational or wacky personality and prone to making those type of decisions. it has little to do with intelligence. however, if i did think she was dumb and a flake then i would call her something like a "cabbage-headed flake".

Well, strippers do have those pesky feelings, and when you run around telling the young girl that she is so special, and have your pervert friends do the same thing, she might think that she actually is.true, but it's the nature of your biz. sc hold some of the same kind of attractions and pitfalls for strippers as it does for customers. if a customer is getting his ego stroked by a stripper. conversely, doesn't a stripper get her ego stroked by attention, adulation and cash? isn't that where strippers develop the absurd notion that she's worth hundreds of dollars just to talk? if every stripper tells me i have a big dick (and they do...sigh) during a lap. it doesn't necessarily follow that i have to believe her. especially, when i get a harsh reality check after i step out of the shower every morning.

Again - you don't see the difference between this and what the DJ did? Plus, keep in mind that the DJ has a pattern of behaviour.i'm not arguing with you about this guy's actions or his pattern of behaviour. so, if you think his actions makes him a sleazy, little weasel. i won't dispute it. i recognize my own kind when i see it.}:D however..

Now really - apparently I am the only one who is still capable of being shocked at someone in a stripclub exploiting his or her colleagues - and then calling them friends afterwards.well, it's not that shocking because it's not all that uncommon. especially, among the other staff members or strippers that are in that are in a better position to exploit their co-worker under the guise of friendship. besides, he's a DJ for crying out loud. a DJ should announce the girls, play music and STFU. otherwise, they become annoying and should be exterminated like rats.

Katrine
08-24-2005, 05:32 PM
This thread needs to be split off. Moneywise likes the drama, pure and simple. He has enough looks, personality, and social skill to pull tail elsewhere, but that's not the point here. The SC drama is his "trigger".

FBR
08-24-2005, 06:09 PM
This thread needs to be split off. Moneywise likes the drama, pure and simple. He has enough looks, personality, and social skill to pull tail elsewhere, but that's not the point here. The SC drama is his "trigger".

Kat, I hope you realize that you are potentially creating a monster by making this suggestion. Any moment now, JZ and I can expect a PM from MW demanding a "sticky" thread of his own ::) It would take a ton of thought and probably a half-dozen polls just to figure out what to name it :P Tales From The Crypt comes to mind }:D

Seriously, I was kinda thinking the same thing yesterday after reading the latest back and forth posts. OTOH, though, OTC-HG isnt super busy so my gut reaction was to let it ride figuring some other OTC-meister (Chili maybe?) will post something to steal MW's thunder for a while ;) Jay may have some thoughts :)

FBR

SportsWriter2
08-24-2005, 06:27 PM
Moneywise likes the drama, pure and simple. He has enough looks, personality, and social skill to pull tail elsewhere, but that's not the point here. The SC drama is his "trigger"
Yeah, I agree, except I'd say "more than enough." Kat, you've had a prolific day posting. I couldn't even do that on Red Bull. :O
.

Kat, I hope you realize that you are potentially creating a monster by making this suggestion.
Personally, I like the interplay between the general concepts and the dissection of MW/P's Excellent Adventure. :P

SportsWriter2
08-24-2005, 06:48 PM
I've personally never met a submissive - either a dedicated one or one in it for play - who will not do things with her boyfriend.
Yeah, but it's the boyfriends who don't wanna go there. Ever see a submissive go out of control having her hair pulled and ass slapped? It scares a BF fast to know the trigger is more important than the guy. :O


Submissive is a very socially acceptable place for women - it's constantly eroticized, etc. There is no stigma or shame attached to a woman wanting to be tied and spanked and have her hair pulled...
There's no stigma among fellow freaks, but try telling a first date what you like. Even guys who say they're cool with it don't keep coming back for it. :O


...you obviously get huge charge out of being the only guy that can do them right, and that is what is really going on here.
Any guy can, but not many will. It actually gives me a queasy feeling after the rush. :-\


...the truth is that the girls you all choose are simply not particularly adept negotiators. They are spoiled and lazy. Men tell them how beautiful they are to get in their pants and they begin to internalize it as being the only truth. The doubt their cognitive abilities, then self-medicate to further numb the heinous truth.
I'd strike "spoiled and lazy" and insert "horny and deprived." Not a good negotiating position. And some doubt their looks, not their cognitive abilities. :-\

Jenny
08-24-2005, 08:23 PM
Somehow I am having trouble getting any more worked up over that then I do over a PL who spends thousands of $$s on a stripper in hopes of getting sex because he has been intentionally led to believe that he is really liked and could end up in a romantic relationship (and some of these PL types fall head over heals in love with strippers and are intentionally lead on for years).
So. It is her own fault because she is a filthy whore. That is essentially what you are getting at, right? I've already pointed out that the baseline of decency from a customer is different from the baseline of decency from a colleague. Same as the customer might get what he "deserved" from the dancer, but it would be pretty wrong for his buddy, who went in with him, to tell the stripper how to emotionally push his buttons, and to tell him "No, man, she told me - one more VIP and she'll really fall in love with you." I'm obviously condensing - but that is the gist of it, right?


But if you really think she was deceived, then I understand why you are upset at the DJ, but I am having trouble sharing in your surprise. I guess the lesson is learned. Trust noone in the stripclubs to be honest, not even your co-workers.
Don't you think it is kind of ironic that the stripper, the one who participates in teh this whole strip club culture thing the most is the only one who seems to think that people, regardless of location, should have some ethical baseline? I think that is a terrible way to behave. I've never had a colleague behave that way with me. I don't think it is as common as what you evidently do.



yeah, and a stripper SHOULD work sober, but quite often they do not.
Oh, like hell they should.


i would call her something like a "cabbage-headed flake".
Cabbage isn't even flaky. Leafy.


sc hold some of the same kind of attractions and pitfalls for strippers as it does for customers. if a customer is getting his ego stroked by a stripper. conversely, doesn't a stripper get her ego stroked by attention, adulation and cash? isn't that where strippers develop the absurd notion that she's worth hundreds of dollars just to talk? Well, worth has no meaning in that context. My time has no intrinsic value - it's just what people are willing to pay me to do versus what I am willing to do for free. If customers want to talk to me for long periods of time then I will insist that they pay me because otherwise I won't. Whether or not it is "worth it" is entirely their decision, right? On the other hand if a guy wants to buy 10 dances, I will happily throw in a half hour of conversation for free.

Now - I did just get through saying on the pink side that when you spend all your time trying to convince a guy that you like him, you can't blame him for believing it. It may be the nature of the biz, but MW can't viably complain or be surprised if, after he and his friends tell this girl that she is special to him, she actually thinks she is.


i'm not arguing with you about this guy's actions or his pattern of behaviour. so, if you think his actions makes him a sleazy, little weasel. i won't dispute it. i recognize my own kind when i see it.}:D however.. You bastard.


well, it's not that shocking because it's not all that uncommon. especially, among the other staff members or strippers that are in that are in a better position to exploit their co-worker under the guise of friendship. besides, he's a DJ for crying out loud. a DJ should announce the girls, play music and STFU. otherwise, they become annoying and should be exterminated like rats.
Well, I don't know. This is obviously not something that I have a great deal of experience with (in case it wasn't obvious: this is not something I have a great deal of experience with). Since I work in stripclubs with DJs and strippers and this is not something I've seen much of - I have difficulty believing that it is all THAT common. In any case - back the hell away from my innocence and shocked indignation. I already told you I was keeping it on a high shelf far away from you bad, bad people.

Jenny
08-24-2005, 08:25 PM
There's no stigma among fellow freaks, but try telling a first date what you like. Even guys who say they're cool with it don't keep coming back for it. :O


Oh, little bunny. I think part of what I was trying to communicate (perhaps not effectively) was that it is not really "freakish" behaviour. That it is universally indulged in, and generally considered more desirable than not.

SportsWriter2
08-24-2005, 08:40 PM
I think part of what I was trying to communicate (perhaps not effectively) was that it is not really "freakish" behaviour. That it is universally indulged in, and generally considered more desirable than not.

You communicate effectively; I just disagree with your assertion. Some dancers find guys who will work them over; some don't. Some dancers have lots of personal guilt about their submissive triggers. Suggested reading: Dr. Michael Bader's, Arousal: The Secret Logic of Sexual Fantasies.

Moneywise
08-24-2005, 08:51 PM
the truth is that the girls you all choose are simply not particularly adept negotiators. They are spoiled and lazy. Men tell them how beautiful they are to get in their pants and they begin to internalize it as being the only truth. The doubt their cognitive abilities, then self-medicate to further numb the heinous truth.

I believe her self esteem exists at a constant low. The things I know lead me to believe that. Some things I haven’t shared on this board (surprise surprise). Me not share info? Imagine that. ::)


Let’s negotiate in the little corner booth behind the red curtain. http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/dev27.gif



I think you need to face that it is YOUR fantasy that is being catered to, not theirs

I know that was directed at Sporty but let me just say this. She told me secrets. She divulged to me that she enjoyed having her hair almost yanked out of her head. The harder the more it gets her off. I vowed to never share that info. (The cyber world doesn’t apply) Although I would have no qualms believing MY fantasy is being catered to (I did lighten my pockets a bit), after our little hookup I believe she got a little something out of it too. :P



And it turns out I can read a story after all. Yay for my four years at university. As for who started it - clearly he did. Now really - apparently I am the only one who is still capable of being shocked at someone in a stripclub exploiting his or her colleagues - and then calling them friends afterwards. I have no intention of getting over it. In fact I think I am going to put my remaining innocence and shocked indignation in a little box and place it on a high shelf next to my straw giraffe and My Little Ponies and guard it carefully against you nasty, bad men.

I’m a bad bad man. Hey, congrats on the four years. Thanks to my four years I am able to enjoy and appreciate the inherent ability to support my diversionary addiction. I should write the dean and thank him one day.


I won’t ask you to lighten up. I’ll just say the three of us had fun with the whole “he’s a porn director” thing. If she actually believed that then I have some top choice real estate in South Florida to sell her.



if every stripper tells me i have a big dick (and they do...sigh)

LOL



i recognize my own kind when i see it.


True. http://www.adultnetsurprise.com/forums/images/smilies/new/pimp.gif



This thread needs to be split off. Moneywise likes the drama, pure and simple. He has enough looks, personality, and social skill to pull tail elsewhere, but that's not the point here. The SC drama is his "trigger".


You know I love you. http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/luv_cloud_devil.gif I would have placed my HG report in the drama section had I know it would have stirred up this much dust.



Kat, I hope you realize that you are potentially creating a monster by making this suggestion. Any moment now, JZ and I can expect a PM from MW demanding a "sticky" thread of his own


I did take a special liking to Kat’s whole trigger statement. Perhaps I can add that to my already crowded sig. *grin* Don’t worry. Kat has the special formula that makes this monster come a sniffin.



my gut reaction was to let it ride figuring some other OTC-meister (Chili maybe?) will post something to steal MW's thunder for a while


I’m sure Chili has been in the basement working on his next masterpiece. I fully expect my thunder to be stolen very soon.


Meanwhile I will be working on that next play date. I could get used to this for awhile. Youy know Ms. L was flirting with me Saturday night too. Hell, she just dropped another child. Slipping Frazier in that might be like adding water to ramen. It is fun flirting with her though especially when Ms. J is in my peripheral line of sight stealing a glance.



Personally, I like the interplay between the general concepts and the dissection of MW/P's Excellent Adventure.


Thanks. I’m not sure I would ever be able to fully trust P but we sure have a damned good time together.


Hey, I’ve worked on this for two years. I remember taking a direct approach about a year ago and receiving the line “I aint no ho”. Anyone remember that TR? Haha


Patience truly is a virtue.


FBR, since this area is for HGs and my HG report appears to have stimulated some conversation (mostly melodramatic) perhaps you could move everything with the exception of the few pats on the back received from the fellow junkies over to the drama thread. I don't care either way. Just a suggestion. I wasn't expecting my HG to generate pages of red rover.

xdamage
08-25-2005, 05:52 AM
So. It is her own fault because she is a filthy whore. That is essentially what you are getting at, right?


Look up. As I said previously in a previous response, this seems to be at the heart of the matter. Some deep seated fear on your part that if we acknowledge her responsibility in the matter that we are saying that it's her 'fault because she is a filthy whore' Thats a pretty strong emotional reaction; maybe you're projecting some issues you're having with prostitution or fears you are having with people viewing you or other females that way, but thats not the view I'm taking.



Now - I did just get through saying on the pink side that when you spend all your time trying to convince a guy that you like him, you can't blame him for believing it. It may be the nature of the biz, but MW can't viably complain or be surprised if, after he and his friends tell this girl that she is special to him, she actually thinks she is.


Customers believe all kinds of things. But then nobody sheds a tear for them when they are being played to make money. Whats the stereotypical view of that? Oh yea, it must be "Its all the customers fault because he is a pathetic loser". Of course that stereotypical simplistic view hasn't stopped most strippers from stripping or playing customers. Those mean nasty females. ::)

Now could we drop the generalizations/polarizations about male/females and just focus on the story at hand?

Jenny
08-25-2005, 06:29 AM
Now could we drop the generalizations/polarizations about male/females and just focus on the story at hand?
Well, you go right on ahead. I flatter myself that is what I have been doing all along.
Really - I think at this point you are simply willfully misunderstanding and selectively quoting to carry on the argument - I fail to see how you cannot see that I have addressed the two points you made ad nauseum over the past 700 pages and even I am getting incredibly bored of explaining to you over and over again that the baseline of ethical behaviour is different between dancers and their clients and colleagues and that the contentious behaviour here is about the DJ's beahviour (i.e. lying to and abuse of a colleague's trust), not the dancer's (exchanging sex for money). If you are interested in morally dissecting the dancer's behaviour, you don't need to involve me (because I'm not. Prostitution, in this scenario, is something with which I feel extremely comfortable and not in the slightest conflicted). Considering the above - I would move that enough is enough.

SportsWriter2
08-25-2005, 06:57 AM
...the baseline of ethical behaviour is different between dancers and their clients and colleagues and that the contentious behaviour here is about the DJ's beahviour...
I think that was your shorthand for "the baseline of ethical behaviour is different between dancers and their clients than it is between dancers and their colleagues..."

Yes, I think you're right. Dancers and colleagues focus on manipulative flattery (SS/CS) to obtain more for less. The baseline for dancers and colleagues is only slightly above ruthless. :O

Moneywise
08-25-2005, 06:58 AM
even I am getting incredibly bored of explaining to you over and over again that the baseline of ethical behaviour is different between dancers and their clients and colleagues and that the contentious behaviour here is about the DJ's beahviour (i.e. lying to and abuse of a colleague's trust), not the dancer's (exchanging sex for money).

It's time for some more sight adjustment. No. I wasn't there when the conversation went down between P & J. P just told me about it afterwards and actually asked if I wanted him to close the deal. (he's very arrogant but in a fun way) :D

She asked. He advised probably because it was his boy she was asking about. Had it been any other individual (and he did tell me this ) he would not have participated in any conversation about it.

The bottom line is that the dissection of a line of behavior that occurs more often than you think in SCs seems to be a waste of good energy.

Ethics in SCs? /:O

evan_essence
08-25-2005, 07:10 AM
Are we all agreed that the DJ was being an arsehole or not? I'm thinking everyone has pretty well agreed to that assessment, so I don't understand the furor over any of the details. It also seems to be agreed that everyone involved is responsible for their own actions.

Blue: Well, she's responsible for her own decisions!
Pink: Yes, but he still behaved like an arsehole.
Blue: But that doesn't diminish her responsibility.
Pink: No, but he was clearly unprofessional.
Blue: Regardless, she is equally or more culpable.
Pink: Still, we shouldn't make excuses for him deceiving her.
Blue: I'm saying she should know that DJs are generally deceptive.

Ad infinitum.

-Ev

SportsWriter2
08-25-2005, 07:31 AM
Are we all agreed that the DJ was being an arsehole or not?
Not. I think the DJ was just being a fun guy. :D

Blue: He gave his friendly approval for the best sex of her life.
Pink: But she gave it up cheaper than I would have.
Blue: You've given it up for free.
Pink: That's different.

Ad nauseum.

xdamage
08-25-2005, 07:37 AM
Are we all agreed that the DJ was being an arsehole or not? I'm thinking everyone has pretty well agreed to that assessment, so I don't understand the furor over any of the details. It also seems to be agreed that everyone involved is responsible for their own actions.


That's pretty much it although MW paints that with regards to the porn director situation, the DJ was just playing a game and that the dancer knew it was just a game. Likewise I get the sense from MW that she asked, and the DJ just put in the good word for MW.

If on the other hand you perceive the DJ as being a manipulative dick that coerced or tricked the dancer (or believe he should have advised her not to engage in this OTC activity with MW), then the furor seems to be over how emotional any of this makes you feel. I sort of feel like yawning, but I guess J feels that there should be a greater degree of honor among those inside of the family circle. All that goes through my head is the old saying there is "No Honor Among Thieves" SCs don't exactly strike me as the place where I expect people to treat each other particularly well or kindly, not among customers, not among the employees.

Moneywise
08-25-2005, 08:25 PM
Blue: He gave his friendly approval for the best sex of her life.
Pink: But she gave it up cheaper than I would have.
Blue: You've given it up for free.
Pink: That's different.

hahah! That's classic.



Ethics in SCs? /:O
/:Opull:Pmy}:Dfinger;)

mr_punk
08-25-2005, 08:51 PM
Pink: No, but he was clearly unprofessional.uh..when did strippers start becoming concerned about being professional.}:D

evan_essence
08-26-2005, 04:57 AM
Blue: You've given it up for free.
Pink: That's different.Where's CO when we need his commentary? It's never free; at the very least, it's "trade out." ::)


uh..when did strippers start becoming concerned about being professional.}:DWell, once you accept pay for it, they won't let you back in the amateur competition. 8)

-Ev

SportsWriter2
08-26-2005, 05:15 AM
Well, once you accept pay for it, they won't let you back in the amateur competition. 8)

Maybe not at your club, but the club down the road will let you compete on amateur night. Who would know? :-\

mr_punk
08-26-2005, 11:37 AM
Well, worth has no meaning in that context. My time has no intrinsic value - it's just what people are willing to pay me to do versus what I am willing to do for free. If customers want to talk to me for long periods of time then I will insist that they pay me because otherwise I won't. Whether or not it is "worth it" is entirely their decision, right? On the other hand if a guy wants to buy 10 dances, I will happily throw in a half hour of conversation for free. really? you must be as socially oblivious and reclusive in the club as you say. i don't know of many strippers who don't get their ego stroked by one or all three in some way. i recall having a conversation with a stripper. at one point during the talk she made an off-the-cuff remark about her looking better than most women. i did a double take to see if she was joking. she was dead serious. don't get me wrong. she was hot, but not that hot. i've seen women on the street who could blow her out the water on a bad hair day and like most sex workers. their attractivness is also partly based on their occupation. in this case, it's the ability to take of their clothes and grind on cocks without a lot of time, effort or commitment on the customer's part. now, i don't think her comment was made out of conceitedness. i suppose, if a stripper has a steady supply of fawning, slobbering PLs constantly telling her that she's beautiful, intelligent or whathave you. at some point, she's going to start to believe her own press.

Now - I did just get through saying on the pink side that when you spend all your time trying to convince a guy that you like him, you can't blame him for believing it. It may be the nature of the biz, but MW can't viably complain or be surprised if, after he and his friends tell this girl that she is special to him, she actually thinks she is.absolutely. since, MW is new to the dark side. hopefully, he'll learn not to abuse use his evil powers indiscriminately on whatever piece of ass tickles his fancy. otherwise, it might come back and bite him on the ass. then again, perhaps not. perhaps, Kat is right. MW could be the drama loving type.