View Full Version : MW's HG OTC
Jenny
08-26-2005, 12:29 PM
really? you must be as socially oblivious and reclusive in the club as you say. i don't know of many strippers who don't get their ego stroked by one or all three in some way.
In case you haven't noticed - I'm not very friendly. Seriously man - comments like that make me think you are actually a 13 year punk (ha - punk - get it?) who has never actually been to a strip club. I have a very hearty appreciation for what my talk time, and for that matter the time I spend grinding on guys cocks, is worth not only because of the number of guys that do pay for it, but because the much larger number that won't pay for it (yes the flaky strippers can count! Although I specialize in increments of twenty. If we are not rounding to twenty, I must furrow my brow and think particularly hard and perhaps involve my fingers. I wear closed toed shoes, so I can't use my toes.). I have never met a dancer who gets more yeses than nos, regardless of how hot she is.
i recall having a conversation with a stripper. at one point during the talk she made an off-the-cuff remark about her looking better than most women. i did a double take to see if she was joking.
Was this a visible double take? You mean, bad, discourteous man.
now, i don't think her comment was made out of conceitedness. i suppose, if a stripper has a steady supply of fawning, slobbering PLs constantly telling her that she's beautiful, intelligent or whathave you. at some point, she's going to start to believe her own press.
I think it's nice when women have a lot of confidence in themselves. Of course I get to see the same girl obsessing over her weight, the pimples on her ass, her ugly cuticles and the fact that her kidneys are not symetrical and her cervix has some unusual cells (and she knows you guys are looking), and then weeping over her ugly cervix when she has only made $7.00 that night. So I am going to have a different perspective on "her own press" than you do.
mr_punk
08-26-2005, 04:35 PM
Seriously man - comments like that make me think you are actually a 13 year punk (ha - punk -get it?) who has never actually been to a stripclub.hold on. you're the one who's shocked that a DJ would manipulate his co-workers into getting fingered and fucked by a customer and you're wondering if i've ever been to a sc?
I have a very hearty appreciation for what my talk time, and for that matter the time I spend grinding on guys cocks, is worth not only because of the number of guys that do pay for it, but because the much larger number that won't pay for it oh, i'm sure you do have an appreciation. like i said, cash is one of the ego strokes for strippers. the more you make the bigger the stroke, right?.
Was this a visible double take? You mean, bad, discourteous man.it couldn't be helped, but luckily she was too busy talking to notice it.
I think it's nice when women have a lot of confidence in themselves.oh, i wouldn't say that she was that self-confident. a lot of it derived from her customers. i knew exactly the kind of remarks about her physical appearance that would collapse her self-esteem and ego like a soufflé and send her screaming into the dressing room looking for a mirror....not that i would ever do such a thing...well, not unless i had a very good reason.}:D
Of course I get to see the same girl obsessing over her weight, the pimples on her ass, her ugly cuticles and the fact that her kidneys are not symetrical and her cervix has some unusual cells (and she knows you guys are looking), and then weeping over her ugly cervix when she has only made $7.00 that night. So I am going to have a different perspective on "her own press" than you do.LOL...now, that's funny. you don't think strippers unload in this fashion to their customers? you don't think flaky strippers bitch and moan about their appearance or about a lack of money to their customers? are you high? sometimes, we can't get these biatches to STFU about it.
in fact, this very same woman once bitched to me how her ex-BF used to say her ass wasn't that great just to make her mad or to put her down. sigh....of course, she just had to ask me ,"what do you think of my ass. i think it's kinda of flat. what do you think?".
first of all, i'm not going to buy a dance from a stripper. if she doesn't have a great ass. now, i could have easily told her this and given my reassurance or approval, but unlike a lot of PLs. i don't give anything away to strippers. they have to earn it. so, i told her, "i don't know. i really didn't get a good look (in actuality, i know exactly how many pores and zits are on her ass and i have it mapped out like a butcher's diagram in my head. so, i'll know where to bite.). so, stand up and turn around and show me your ass.". "alright, now straddle the chair, bend over and stick out your ass. no, i mean really stick it out......".
Jenny
08-28-2005, 01:07 PM
hold on. you're the one who's shocked that a DJ would manipulate his co-workers into getting fingered and fucked by a customer and you're wondering if i've ever been to a sc?
Okay - small point here. Everyone on this board who has been talking about how little colleagues in strip clubs owe to each other has been a customer. There have been no industry insiders detailing how acceptable it is to manipulate one's co-workers in this industry. I like to think that, despite my naivete, that perhaps I do still have better insight into the industry than you do, seeing as I work in it and you are still just a patron. So - I maintain that I am right and you are wrong here.
Now watch - all the heretofore silent women are about to unleash some DJ horror stories just to prove that I, in fact, have no idea what the heck I'm talking about.
oh, i'm sure you do have an appreciation. like i said, cash is one of the ego strokes for strippers. the more you make the bigger the stroke, right?.
Okay - again, perhaps my communication skills are questionable. My point was that although you are continually being "stroked" (the guys that pay) you are, at the same time, getting the "anti-stroke." (the guys that don't). Considering that everyone I have ever met gets more anti-stroke than stroke I think girls like the one you are describing are coming out in the ego red at the end of the night.
LOL...now, that's funny. you don't think strippers unload in this fashion to their customers? you don't think flaky strippers bitch and moan about their appearance or about a lack of money to their customers? are you high? sometimes, we can't get these biatches to STFU about it.
Okay, now I'm really laughing because I remember a friend of mine who had a sales tactic I thought was hilarious. She would walk up to a table and say "Do you think I look fat? Because I'm really feeling it right here, and you know, here." And then if the guy said no she would ask him to buy her a drink. If he said no to this, she would whine "It's because you think I'm fat, isn't it?" This would never fail to crack us right up. It did work sometimes, but it was really more good for amusing ourselves than anything else. Sigh. It was fun having a friend at work. I should see about getting me another one.
first of all, i'm not going to buy a dance from a stripper. if she doesn't have a great ass. now, i could have easily told her this and given my reassurance or approval, but unlike a lot of PLs. i don't give anything away to strippers. they have to earn it.
They have to earn the flattery? That's supposed to be a perk! You're even cheap with the meaningless flattery? You are mean.
so, i told her, "i don't know. i really didn't get a good look (in actuality, i know exactly how many pores and zits are on her ass and i have it mapped out like a butcher's diagram in my head. so, i'll know where to bite.)
Okay, hold on just a second. I don't go in for any fluidy contact, so I'm not much for being bit. Ergo my experience in this area is limited. But you're telling me right now that you have to plan to bite AROUND her zits? Oh my god. That is disgusting, and yet horrifyingly amusing, just imagining you with a mouthful of ass-zit puss. Eeww, man. Just, eeww.
evan_essence
08-29-2005, 10:10 PM
Well, once you accept pay for it, they won't let you back in the amateur competition. 8) Maybe not at your club, but the club down the road will let you compete on amateur night. Who would know? :-\Oh, well, I wasn't meaning to be taken that literally. I meant "they who classify you as a whore" once you accept pay for it won't ever let you live it down.
-Ev
SportsWriter2
08-30-2005, 05:47 AM
Oh, well, I wasn't meaning to be taken that literally. I meant "they who classify you as a whore" once you accept pay for it won't ever let you live it down.
Okay, let me expand the concept. Maybe not in that social network (SN1), but the social network "down the road" (SN2) will let you pass yourself off as an amateur. Who would know?
Intead of saying "I don't do that anymore" in SN1, you just say, "I would never do that" in SN2. :)
yoda57us
08-30-2005, 11:49 AM
Why can't you imagine that there might be a fun place between free and the going rate? It's a place where a girl can try things she would never do with her BF and almost be a ho. ;)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: "Almost be a ho"?! is that one of the outfits that comes with the "My First Stripper Dolls" that your 19 year-old waifs are still palying with Sporty? Don't get me wrong, the concept is very entertaining but the reality is that the grey area between free and the going rate is called rent week, or car payment due, or "well, at least he doesn't smell gross, even if he is old and losing his hair". Hey, whatever works for you.;)
SportsWriter2
08-30-2005, 05:02 PM
"Almost be a ho"?! is that one of the outfits that comes with the "My First Stripper Dolls" that your 19 year-old waifs are still palying with Sporty?
Dolls? These girls have already done more wild stuff in five years than you and I have in a lifetime. :O
yoda57us
08-30-2005, 05:34 PM
Dolls? These girls have already done more wild stuff in five years than you and I have in a lifetime. :O
Sporty: I'm really not debating what your girls have done. Just what you are calling it.:)
SportsWriter2
08-31-2005, 05:29 AM
Sporty: I'm really not debating what your girls have done. Just what you are calling it.:)
Do the math, Yoda. If she'd cost $400/hr with an escort agency and she offers her time for $100/hr "cuz we're friends and you're fun," she's almost being a ho. I know a cute dancer who sold herself for $2000. That's being a ho. :-\
I've had impasses where the dancer would only do it for free, and I wouldn't agree to less than $100/hr. Free is just too expensive, if you catch my drift.
yoda57us
08-31-2005, 06:04 AM
Sporty: The going rate around Boston is $300-350 for a hot GFE for one hour. There are girls that will do it for far less and even some crack-whores on Craig's List that will do you for $100. I've gotten offers from dancers who do outcall anywhere in the price range I just mentioned and higher. A few weeks ago a cute little Mexican dancer at a club in San Diego slipped me her card and told me she would take $300 for an overnighter. I had just spent $200 on her in lap dances.
You can call your girls or the acts they perform by whatever you want. If you want to kid yourself about why they accept your cash that's fine too. I could care less since I obviously don't have a problem with the concept of cash for sex.
As far as "free" being too expensive. I can see how that might be a problem for you since mind-fucking with girls is part of your game plan. Call me boring but my freebies (and no, there aren't many) are all older, independant thinkers who just want a little fun with a dumpy middle aged guy who treats them well.:P
SportsWriter2
08-31-2005, 07:41 AM
As far as "free" being too expensive. I can see how that might be a problem for you since mind-fucking with girls is part of your game plan.
Yoda, the "free" ones are usually BPD psyschos. If you order a drink from a female bartender, you're mind-fucking a BPD. What a waste of pretty. ::)
yoda57us
08-31-2005, 09:16 AM
Yoda, the "free" ones are usually BPD psyschos. If you order a drink from a female bartender, you're mind-fucking a BPD. What a waste of pretty. ::)
Huh? You lost me there Sporty. Your going to have to explain to me how ordering a drink is a mind fuck and why you would go anywhere near a woman who thinks it is.../:O
Destiny
08-31-2005, 11:37 AM
Okay - small point here. Everyone on this board who has been talking about how little colleagues in strip clubs owe to each other has been a customer. There have been no industry insiders detailing how acceptable it is to manipulate one's co-workers in this industry. I like to think that, despite my naivete, that perhaps I do still have better insight into the industry than you do, seeing as I work in it and you are still just a patron. So - I maintain that I am right and you are wrong here.
Now watch - all the heretofore silent women are about to unleash some DJ horror stories just to prove that I, in fact, have no idea what the heck I'm talking about. Okay, I'm coming out of lurking mode to say I agree with Jenny. I haven't totally kept up with this thread but if I understand right, you enlisted the DJ to help you get her drunk, let you finger her, and meet you OTC. That was slimy, both on the DJ's part and yours.
Returning to lurking mode now.
Richard_Head
08-31-2005, 03:20 PM
Okay, I'm coming out of lurking mode to say I agree with Jenny. I haven't totally kept up with this thread but if I understand right, you enlisted the DJ to help you get her drunk, let you finger her, and meet you OTC. That was slimy, both on the DJ's part and yours.
Returning to lurking mode now.Seems to me the dancer was open to all of the above with little to no help from the DJ, does that make it slimy on her part too?
SportsWriter2
08-31-2005, 07:26 PM
I haven't totally kept up with this thread but if I understand right, you enlisted the DJ to help you get her drunk, let you finger her, and meet you OTC. That was slimy, both on the DJ's part and yours.
Here's the Cliff notes for P and MW's Great Adventure
Girl #1, 19, drunk, horny, wet (or slimy, whatever), porn starlet wannabe, warms "director" MW's fingers.
Girl #2, older, drunk, horny, wet, dancer, seeks DJ's approval to warm Frazier OTC.
Destiny, you're in control here. All four players will roast in hell forever if you rat them out to dog. Do it. ;)
Destiny
08-31-2005, 08:03 PM
There is a specific term for a man that encourages girls to sleep with men for money. That term is not Disk Jockey.
Moneywise
08-31-2005, 09:14 PM
Okay, I'm coming out of lurking mode to say I agree with Jenny. I haven't totally kept up with this thread but if I understand right, you enlisted the DJ to help you get her drunk, let you finger her, and meet you OTC. That was slimy, both on the DJ's part and yours.
Returning to lurking mode now.
Might I suggest you read fully before formulating a hypothesis? I didn't enlist anything. He knew what I wanted and took it upon himself to help out a friend. :P What a great guy eh? Pope? P? Pope? P? I can't think of which is greater.
I never asked for anything except maybe a little back arch or so.
I hope you don't go back into hibernation for good. It was very nice meeting you.
Moneywise
08-31-2005, 09:19 PM
There is a specific term for a man that encourages girls to sleep with men for money. That term is not Disk Jockey.
It's funny that you say that. Whenever he sees me the first thing out of his mouth is always "sup Pimp!" :D
I'm sure we've all pimped at some point in our lives both male & female.
When you set your "girl" or "boy" up for a date with someone you think is "nice" does that nice person not spend money on your "boy" or "girl" which may ultimately result in some hot hot burnin luv?
Some enjoy occasionally cutting to the chase. Others enjoy the hunt.
Some enjoy both. I'm in the both category.
Jenny
08-31-2005, 09:34 PM
Dude - it is the most simplistic and inaccurate thing in the world to say that a date is the same as a hooker. Setting someone up on a date is not the same as pimping them out, and it is ridiculously naive and childish to claim it is.
Moneywise
08-31-2005, 10:04 PM
lol
I guess I should have placed more smilies in that post so that YOU would understand the hint of sarcasm I lined it with. My fault.
edit: That makes 2. I'm sure there's more that didn't see my twisted sartcasm. Now I see why I don't do stand up.
ANYWAYS I didn't ask him to do anything. If you see whatever he did as pimping then you see it from a different perspective than I. From my point of view she went to him and asked what he thought about it. He probably had already had a few and told her to go for it. (hell, it's his boy. what's he going to say?) He's a DJ not a therapist. ::) I'm not sure how saying "if it were anyone else I would think she's a whore but since it's you I don't because you're different" is pimping. She looked for an angle. He gave her one with his own personality tossed in. Ask and you shall receive.
Jenny
08-31-2005, 10:21 PM
Be careful J. You might get recruited into the moral police force. Look for a nightstick in your mailbox anyday now.
Dude - I can't help it if I am a good and moral person, and, as such, like my hookers sober, honest, uninfluenced by slimy DJ's and I certainly don't want one who is only doing me - you know, because I'm so special to her (or him, depending on my mood I guess). I prefer just to pay them and then go home. And preferably without fillings. I like a hooker who flosses.
Moneywise
08-31-2005, 10:23 PM
Dude - I can't help it if I am a good and moral person, and, as such, like my hookers sober, honest, uninfluenced by slimy DJ's and I certainly don't want one who is only doing me - you know, because I'm so special to her (or him, depending on my mood I guess). I prefer just to pay them and then go home. And preferably without fillings. I like a hooker who flosses.
I yield to your holiness and should have another HG report within a week or so. ;)
Destiny
09-01-2005, 08:23 AM
...So she asks him if he would think any lesser of her and he (always erring on the side of his boy) encouraged her and told her if it were anyone else he would see it as tricking and nothing more. She’s “different” though. Afterwards he called me that night, filled me in, and I told him I would close the deal. Of course I thanked him for his words of wisdom..lolShe asked his opinion as her friend and co-worker. His answer reflected not her best interests, but the best interests of, "his boy". That is slimy.
For the record, I have no problem with you purchasing sex. If you fell a need to engage the services of a pimp to facillitate your purchase, I have no problem with that either. What I have a problem with is someone that takes advantage of a working friendship. Yes a SC is cutthroat environment. But still, co-workers out to look out for each other.
xdamage
09-01-2005, 10:43 AM
Am I the only one here who thinks there is a lot of hypocracy being thrown around?. Lets reduce it:
Argument 1: Prostitition isn't wrong, infact I use the services of prostitutes.
Argument 2: It is wrong to advise someone to engage in prostitution . Or how was it put? It's not in their best interest, even though the would-be prostitute asked for an opionion. Apparently its particulary even more wrong when the person advising you is someone you know and work with vs say, when the person encouraging you to engage in prostitution is the one offering you money.
Lets compare this with something which we all agree is not wrong and see how silly this sounds:
Argument 1: Painting isn't wrong, infact I use the services of a painter.
Argument 2: It is wrong to advise someone to take money for painting someone elses house.
I think the the issue is very simple here. Deep down people don't actually believe prostitution (aka turning tricks) is okay, and so all the rest of this is just dancing around that, drawing the lines of morality at whatever point allows people to live with their own inconsistencies in this regard. I think if people really didn't look down on prostitution nobody would give a shit what the DJ told the dancer and we wouldn't be having this (incredibly long) discussion.
I also can't help but think that some of this is just the typical blue/pink, male (the DJ is one)/female (the dancer is one) biased arguments (aka, men suck!).
SportsWriter2
09-01-2005, 11:19 AM
I also can't help but think that some of this is just the typical blue/pink, male (the DJ is one)/female (the dancer is one) biased arguments (aka, men suck!).
I agree. More "Men suck; throw rocks at them."
I don't think the term prostitution should apply if the girl likes the guy and takes less than market value for her time. Free is less than market value, and we exempt free.
In effect, Ms J was asking DJ P to be exempted from the prostitution stigma. He exempted her. Being treated like a whore during sex is a separate fantasy.
Mastridonicus
09-01-2005, 11:37 AM
You treat whores differently during sex?
I am sooooo untrained.
xdamage
09-01-2005, 11:57 AM
I don't think the term prostitution should apply if the girl likes the guy and takes less than market value for her time. Free is less than market value, and we exempt free.
It's just sex. People have it, all the time. Yes, fine, even for money.
Personally I would have thought it immoral if the prostitute really despised doing it but the person was in a position in life where they are being forced to do it, afraid and unable to break out of the business for fear of being harmed by their pimp.
Then I would think okay well they are in effect being preyed upon and I can see a morality argument to be made against prostitution in those cases. I can maybe even see an argument to be made for someone who is coerced into this life style pre-18, or who feels trapped in the business and is being preyed upon because they need the money to feed themselves.
However in this case this is a dancer MW has known for a while. She is not new to the business. She doesn't have a pimp threatening to beat her ass if she doesn't do it. Its not her only source of income.
Its just sex gang. Okay sex for $$s. Who cares? It was consensual.
But I think the truth is people really don't believe prostitution is okay, even when it is consensual. Yet we have users of them, and benefactors of the sex for pay industry here. It never ceases to amaze me though that in a forum like this that there is invariably so much of the same types of attitudes that the rest of the community has towards stripping in general (its immoral, wrong, bad, etc., for all the same emotional reasons prostitution is looked down on).
Jenny
09-01-2005, 12:02 PM
Argument 1: Painting isn't wrong, infact I use the services of a painter.
Argument 2: It is wrong to advise someone to take money for painting someone elses house.
Don't you think it might be wrong to advice someone to make a career change simply because your buddy wanted his house painted? See, that would never happen. Ever. Nobody would ever do that. That is a stupid thing to do. It would be seen as irremediably selfish to encourage someone who is having doubts about being a painter, making better money as, say, an accountant, and saying - no you should be a painter. I bet you would be gifted painter. Not because it's true, or because you think the person would be happy as a painter, but because a friend of yours wants to see this person painting houses.
Let's now reduce it in a different way:
What did the DJ did was okay because otherwise MW might not have gotten laid by the chic, and besides if we start morally analysing guys and their behaviour in relation to strippers it's a buzzkill. That's really what's at issue here. Not how you think people should behave, but how will it fits in with your circle jerk.
I think the the issue is very simple here. Deep down people don't actually believe prostitution (aka turning tricks) is okay, and so all the rest of this is just dancing around that, drawing the lines of morality at whatever point allows people to live with their own inconsistencies in this regard. I think if people really didn't look down on prostitution nobody would give a shit what the DJ told the dancer and we wouldn't be having this (incredibly long) discussion.
See, you think that because you don't. You've already sort of published (and really kudos for the honesty) that you look down on dancers. Fine - so does most other people, and as I just said on the pink side, nobody ought to get worked up because someone on the internet thinks strippers are stupid. However - you are assuming that your moral mores are mine and everyone else's, and that your hypocrisy is everyone else's and that just doesn't seem to be true.
I also can't help but think that some of this is just the typical blue/pink, male (the DJ is one)/female (the dancer is one) biased arguments (aka, men suck!).
Now see - I think that too except (aka, dancers are whores and if they can't look out for themselves they deserve to be lied to and manipulated) I don't think anyone here has said that men suck, that hookers suck, that men who purchase the services of hookers suck. I have specifically said that the DJ sucks (and the pope). Granted those are both men - but I also said the girl wasn't bright. I don't think you could extend my intention there to "women are stupid". Let me condense my argument (yet again): It is not nice - I would go so far as to use Destiny's word "slimy" - to use a personal friendship and/or friendly colleague relationship to manipulate your colleagues into sexually gratifying your friends. You wouldn't think it was cool if someone were doing it to a woman (an actual woman, not just a slutty dancer) you knew. You would not think it was cool if it were going on in your workplace. You're not even really saying that he wasn't doing that - you are simply saying that dancers deserve it. I mean you are couching it like "well, she ought to know better; and she shouldn't have asked his opinion" blah, blah, blah, but it comes to the same thing - that she doesn't deserve any better. And you're right - on this board it will tend to be the women that think she does, but I think that implies bias on your part, not ours. Like I said - the criticism doesn't fit in too well with your circle jerk.
xdamage
09-01-2005, 12:23 PM
Don't you think it might be wrong to advice someone to make a career change simply because your buddy wanted his house painted? See, that would never happen. Ever. Nobody would ever do that. That is a stupid thing to do. It would be seen as irremediably selfish to encourage someone who is having doubts about being a painter, making better money as, say, an accountant, and saying - no you should be a painter. I bet you would be gifted painter. Not because it's true, or because you think the person would be happy as a painter, but because a friend of yours wants to see this person painting houses.
No. If a friend of mine or an acquantiance said to me "You know I think I might like to be a painter, and your friend Sally has asked me to come over and paint her bedroom, what do you think?" I'd say go for it, give it a try if you have what it takes. Sally is cool. I'd like to see Sally get her house painted.
It wouldn't even cross my mind that there is anything wrong trying out ones hand at painting, nor would I feel guilty that Sally is benefiting. And it is hardly implies I'm forcing this person to make a permenant "career change" to try something for one day or night. Nobody told her to give up her day job and become a full time escort, and nobody advised her to drop her day job and take up neurosurgery even though she doesn't have any of the qualifications to be a surgeon. Geez. We're talking about having sex here, for one night, with a long time customer.
No I think it must be that you look down on prostitution (i.e., coercing this poor dumb girl into turning tricks), or that you believe it would make her unhappy (but since you arent her how could you know that?) so the rest of it follows from that. Because if you really didn't look down on prostitution I dont see why you would care how the DJ advised her.
While I don't have any problem with that either, looking down on prostitution, but your being a hypocrite here by arguing that its okay for you to use them, but its not okay for the DJ to advise her in the affirmative when she is the one that asked.
And in context of this forum, I find it ironic. Its okay for women to make money in the sex industry in general (selling sexual stimation for money) but when it involves something that someone finds objectionable (e.g., a greater degree of contact then is legally allowed in the clubs), that MW and his dancer friend agreed to, that there is such a strong emotional reaction to it.
Regarding the 'male sucks' thing, that seems to be a general pattern, not just this thread (and yes I'm ducking cause I know the rocks are coming, afterall I am technically a [big] boy).
SportsWriter2
09-01-2005, 12:37 PM
Don't you think it might be wrong to advice someone to make a career change simply because your buddy wanted his house painted?
Say what? Remember Wallace Stevens, the poet who was an insurance executive? Suppose he painted his parents' house, too? Did he waste talents somewhere?
Ms J is still a dancer. Other dancers do OTC on the side. Some are going to school at the same time. Whatever. ::)
xdamage
09-01-2005, 12:47 PM
Ms J is still a dancer. Other dancers do OTC on the side. Some are going to school at the same time. Whatever. ::)
LOL ya.
The point of the painter example was to show that the only reason anyone would think its slimey to advise someone to try prostutition once is because fundamentally it must be that the person views prostitution as wrong/bad/evil/etc. None of which is terribly surprising, but the hypocracy is typical of the blue/pink site and the topic matter.
When some one benefits from the sex industry (either as a customer or someone profiting from it) its rationalized as okay behavior. When someone else is benefitting (either as a customer or profiting personally or financially) and it doesn't align with line X where X is wherever anyone wants to position it, we act like nuns and priests and get all high and mighty and indignant about other peoples behavior.
Same old stuff.
Jenny
09-01-2005, 01:03 PM
No. If a friend of mine or an acquantiance said to me "You know I think I might like to be a painter, and your friend Sally has asked me to come over and paint her bedroom, what do you think?" I'd say go for it, give it a try if you have what it takes. Sally is cool. I'd like to see Sally get her house painted.
But that's not exactly what happened. And, as I have mentioned we are talking about a pattern of behaviour. Note that even MW says that the guy is a good time, but that he wouldn't trust him.
It wouldn't even cross my mind that there is anything wrong trying out ones hand at painting, nor would I feel guilty that Sally is benefiting. And it is hardly implies I'm forcing this person to make a permenant "career change" to try something for one day or night.
But it would be wrong if you are advising someone with someone else's agenda in mind, and if that agenda was taking precedence over over what you thought was advantageous to her - which in this case it clearly was. He gave her "advice", immediately called MW and told him that she was primed and ready and even asked him if he wanted him to "seal the deal". This couldn't be more obvious. Okay - I am now officially done with this. We have been repeating ourselves for 700 pages, and it isn't even funny - funny is something I value.
No I think it must be that you look down on her being a prostitute (aka Turning Tricks), or that you believe it would make her unhappy (but since you arent her how could you know that?) so the rest of it follows from that. Because if you really didn't look down on prostitution I dont see why you would care how the DJ advised her.
Well, I know you think that. I still think it is perfectly obvious that you are projecting your own feelings onto me.
While I don't have any problem with that either, looking down on prostitution, but your being a hypocrite here by arguing that its okay for you to use them, but its not okay for the DJ to advise her in the affirmative when she is the one that asked.
I think it is not okay for the DJ to manipulate his co-workers so that his friend gets off. I think that statement perfectly encapsulates my feelings, and no matter how much you keep stating that my feelings are actually something different, that is not going to make it so.
And in context of this forum, I find it ironic. Its okay for women to make money in the sex industry in general (selling sexual stimation for money) but when it involves something that someone finds objectionable (e.g., a greater degree of contact then is legally allowed in the clubs), that MW and his dancer friend agreed to, that there is such a strong emotional reaction to it.
Dude - have you read any of my posts. I am the one who is a-okay with girls doing extras. I am the one who thinks the whole "extras girls" issue is a red herring. I am the one who is CONSTANTLY saying that it is hypocritical to expect tolerance to only extend to your own comfort zone. I am more or less constantly SAYING that we are sex workers, not artists. There is no irony - I am perfectly comfortable with prostitution. I am not comfortable with scummy people, even when they are employed in strip clubs. Incidentally - you might have picked up that I do know several girls in the business, in varying "echelons". Turning tricks (which is, for some reason, a phrase you are obsessing over, detailing it as evidence that I am, in fact, against prostitution) is as neutral a term as "fucking" insofar as it can be loaded with derision and perjorative value or can be used entirely neutrally, or with empowering connotation. It is in fact the terminology that they use. Seriously man - you need to stop telling me what my opinions are about these subjects. I'm in a better position to know than you.
By the way - why (outside of the fact that I keep replying, which I suppose could imply some investment) do you label my response as "emotional" (which I assume is meant to contrast with yours)? Why is my response "emotional", here - outside of the fact that it enables you to dismiss what I'm saying?
Regarding the 'male sucks' thing, that seems to be a general pattern, not just this thread.
Actually that's you projecting what values you assume a "feminist" to have - despite the fact that you have made it perfectly clear that you have no idea what feminism is, or what agenda(s) it has - and seriously, that's fine. Not everyone can be interested in everything. Maybe in fact, the issue is that I don't think you are as smart as you think you are, and you are inflating that into being an issue between me and men, rather than just accepting that, although you are very familiar with your myriad accomplishments and remarkable intelligence, to me you are just some guy on the internet. Essentially you decide in advance what you think "someone like me" is going to say, and then insist on engaging with that rather than with what I'm actually saying. Which is also fine - it's a message board.
SportsWriter2
09-01-2005, 01:34 PM
But it would be wrong if you are advising someone with someone else's agenda in mind, and if that agenda was taking precedence over over what you thought was advantageous to her - which in this case it clearly was.
I have no doubt that P thought it was advantageous to her. She got quality time with Frazier AND three small. Life doesn't get any better than that. :)
Jenny
09-01-2005, 03:30 PM
Sporty - honey. With all due respect to MW and his sexual prowess - yeah. It does. Get better than that.
SportsWriter2
09-01-2005, 05:37 PM
Sporty - honey. With all due respect to MW and his sexual prowess - yeah. It does. Get better than that.
Jenny - honey. I hear it from dancers all the time: "My boyfriend is good, but my hands know me better." :-\
Moneywise
09-01-2005, 08:24 PM
What did the DJ did was okay because otherwise MW might not have gotten laid by the chic
Enlightening you is really becoming old hat.
Had he not said A word I would have still gotten "laid". It was already in the works. He simply made her feel better about what she was about to do.
I wasn't close with P back when I initially propositioned her. Fast forward to today. I now am. Perhaps that tied into her speaking to him. :-\
While you continue to dislike what you read remember I have known her for about 2 years and approached her about this a good 9 mos to a year ago. (TR: "I ain't no ho." Do you rememer reading that TR? Do I need to dig it up?) It wasn't anything new to her. She took awhile but finally decided to join the piece corps.
For that I am grateful and will continue to contribute from the relief fund.
Ginorod55
09-01-2005, 08:41 PM
Okay - I am now officially done with this. We have been repeating ourselves for 700 pages, and it isn't even funny - funny is something I value.
Really? I hope the others are done too. It's been interesting, but I've been waiting for this thread to cool down so I can post my OTC report (}:D) and I didn't want to interrrupt.
Have fun,
Play safe,
Gino
PS - Just in case, I'll wait a little bit longer...
;)
Moneywise
09-01-2005, 08:47 PM
Sporty - honey. With all due respect to MW and his sexual prowess - yeah. It does. Get better than that.
No doubt! Frazier and I hold our own. Yet still, we're just pawn in the game of life. Nothing more. Nothing less. Just holding our own... ;)
Please chill with this talk of my sexual prowess. I'd like to keep whatever prowess I have between myself, malady, & the blue board.
Thanks.
Moneywise
09-01-2005, 08:49 PM
I've been waiting for this thread to cool down so I can post my OTC report (}:D) and I didn't want to interrrupt.
hahah! Gino please post away. I, for one, am interested in hearing another. I'll yield to the all supreme holiness of Jenny and will no longer respond to her wonderful words of wisdom. Cross my heart. ;)
Susan Wayward
09-01-2005, 11:37 PM
I'd like to keep whatever prowess I have between myself, malady, & the blue board.
Fuck, did you catch something?
Destiny
09-02-2005, 02:24 AM
Am I the only one here who thinks there is a lot of hypocracy being thrown around?. Lets reduce it: I said I had no problem with people selling sex. That can only be hypocritical if you assume I don't mean what I say. In fact, my opinion of the slimy DJ has nothing to do with the nature of the question. If a friend or co-worker asks for your advice, you owe them an honest answer based on their needs, not what is best for your "boy". Anything less is slimy. Again, it doesn't matter if the question is sleeping with moneywise or becoming a house painter, the DJ owed her answer based on what was best for her. Moneywise made it clear that the DJ's answer reflected what was best for "his boy". That is slimy.
Argument 1: Prostitition isn't wrong, infact I use the services of prostitutes.
Argument 2: It is wrong to advise someone to engage in prostitution . Or how was it put? It's not in their best interest, even though the would-be prostitute asked for an opionion. Apparently its particulary even more wrong when the person advising you is someone you know and work with vs say, when the person encouraging you to engage in prostitution is the one offering you money. Since you like "real world" comparisons, here's one. You're standing at the water cooler in your "real" job. You ask a co-worker, "hey, where's a good place to get my car fixed?" The co-worker reccomends a garage down the street. Later you find out that the reason the co-worker reccomended that garage is because the owner is, "his boy". How would you feel towards the co-worker? There is an implied level of trust there. It is slimy to violate that.
SportsWriter2
09-02-2005, 04:40 AM
You ask a co-worker, "hey, where's a good place to get my car fixed?" The co-worker reccomends a garage down the street. Later you find out that the reason the co-worker reccomended that garage is because the owner is, "his boy". How would you feel towards the co-worker?
Destiny, did it ever dawn on you that "his boy" might have that status because he's a great mechanic? There are win-win situations in life. ::)
Moneywise
09-02-2005, 05:45 AM
Fuck, did you catch something?
lol.. no maam. Not that I know of. That's what I get for not using proper english when responding.
malady = my lady (the current love of my life)
piece corps = peace corps (w/ my own little twisted humor tossed in)
relief fund = war chest (savings account for those in need of further definition)
Need I define anything else?
One last note, I can't remember ever writing that P "authorized" the hook up. He simply gave advice when requested. By virtue of he and I being somewhat close I had already told him that she and I agreed to hook up. No other details were provided at that time.
she approached P and asked his opinion about my offer.
So she asks him if he would think any lesser of her and he (always erring on the side of his boy) encouraged her and told her if it were anyone else he would see it as tricking and nothing more. She’s “different” though. Afterwards he called me that night, filled me in, and I told him I would close the deal. Of course I thanked him for his words of wisdom..lol
Knowing what he knew he did err on the side of "his boy". Call him slimy for that if you'd like but please spare the comparisons to the Pope. I see more of a paradox with Ms. Cleo. If he broke any "SC rules" please point me to them. I would imagine they're written, voted upon, and confirmed as the rule of law by the grand population of SC employees. I would like to examine them so that I may, in the future, abide strictly by them as only a good little custy does.
P's encouragement was nothing more than reinforcement that what she had decided to do was ok. He might have hastened the process for something that had already been agreed upon. I hope I didn't lead you to believe without him we wouldn't have exchanged fluids. That would be contradictary to the truth and not my style. I'm detail oriented for a reason.
Let me offer a kinder gentler version of my original HG report so we can move on.
It all began last weekend. Ms. J recently celebrated her birthday.
*FTB*
Let me give you a little P/MW background.
*FTB*
So she asks him if he would think any lesser of her
*FTB*
Ms. L is now bartending.
*FTB*
Tuesday night I venture in with a certain look in my eyes.
*FTB*
MW: So when do you want to go on our little play date?
*FTB*
A few minutes later we arrive at the hotel.
*FTB*
J: (afterwards) So am I the only girl at (insert club name here) you've had sex with?
MW: Of course (she actually is. The 19 yr old Ms. J was at the other club).
J: I thought you and Ms. L would have hooked up.
MW: Nope. I've very picky. I'll stop short of using a rating system but let's just say you tickle my fancy in a way she never did.
J: (smiles as she lies there on the bed looking at the ceiling)
J: Well this will be our little secret ok.
MW: I won’t tell if you won’t tell.
We both laugh.
*FTB*
“I’ll have to remember these directions so the next time we do this I will know where to go” I said. She nodded with approval and said “now I can get my car registered”. I chuckled to myself, kissed her goodbye, and headed home.
So my little original HG report has created 10 subsequent pages of I don't know what. Perhaps I should just FTB from now on. :D Now I see why FBR does that so often. Fading allows him to get the good information to those who desire it without ruffling the feathers of others. Can we please bring this little pink/blue thing (as X so accurately nailed it) to an end so Gino can let us in on his experience?
xdamage
09-02-2005, 06:12 AM
Since you like "real world" comparisons, here's one. You're standing at the water cooler in your "real" job. You ask a co-worker, "hey, where's a good place to get my car fixed?" The co-worker reccomends a garage down the street. Later you find out that the reason the co-worker reccomended that garage is because the owner is, "his boy". How would you feel towards the co-worker? There is an implied level of trust there. It is slimy to violate that.
Its not the best comparison. Here is a better one:
You're standing at the water cooler in your "real" job. You ask a co-worker, "hey, what do you think about me taking my car to Midas to get it fixed?" The co-worker agrees that would be a good place to go. You already know in advance that the co-worker is likely to recomended that garage because you already know the owner is, "his boy" and infact you've been thinking about going to that garage for over 9 months.
MW is a long time customer of the dancer. Real world comparison wise he has suggested she bring her car to his shop months ago. Its not like she hasn't been thinking about it. And it's not like this dancer who works at this club has never had any opportunity to take note of the fact that MW and the DJ are tight. I suspect she was just looking for final confirmation for a decison she had already made.
Slimy? I guess if you want to view it that way. But the thing is I don't see that it was that big of a deal. Its sex for money. Say yes or say no. She wasn't forced, and it wasn't a sudden decision. I don't see that its the DJs job to be her best friend, or to explore her feelings on the matter, or to try and play neutral counselor with her.
Well not unless you think it was a significant life changing decision for her? In which case I reserve the belief that we have too many of our own hang ups about prostitution wrapped up in this conversation and thats significantly skewing our sense of what is right and wrong in a decision and interaction between a set of adults, which none of us directly participated in.
Destiny
09-02-2005, 11:57 AM
Destiny, did it ever dawn on you that "his boy" might have that status because he's a great mechanic? There are win-win situations in life. ::)Yes it did. But that's not what moneywise said the DJ's motivation was. He clearly stated that the DJ's motivation was taking care of "his boy".
Its not the best comparison. Here is a better one:
You're standing at the water cooler in your "real" job. You ask a co-worker, "hey, what do you think about me taking my car to Midas to get it fixed?" The co-worker agrees that would be a good place to go. You already know in advance that the co-worker is likely to recomended that garage because you already know the owner is, "his boy" and infact you've been thinking about going to that garage for over 9 months.
MW is a long time customer of the dancer. Real world comparison wise he has suggested she bring her car to his shop months ago. Its not like she hasn't been thinking about it. And it's not like this dancer who works at this club has never had any opportunity to take note of the fact that MW and the DJ are tight. I suspect she was just looking for final confirmation for a decison she had already made. I see. So with nine months to convince her what a great guy he is, it takes the DJ to confirm a decision she'd already made? Doesn't say much for moneywise's charm does it.
Slimy? I guess if you want to view it that way. But the thing is I don't see that it was that big of a deal. Its sex for money. Say yes or say no. She wasn't forced, and it wasn't a sudden decision. I don't see that its the DJs job to be her best friend, or to explore her feelings on the matter, or to try and play neutral counselor with her.
Well not unless you think it was a significant life changing decision for her? In which case I reserve the belief that we have too many of our own hang ups about prostitution wrapped up in this conversation and thats significantly skewing our sense of what is right and wrong in a decision and interaction between a set of adults, which none of us directly participated in.You somehow know that she was just looking for confirmation of a decision she'd already made. How? How do you know that?
You're the one that is hung up on the fact that it was sex for money, not me. I never said it was the DJ's job to be her best friend. What I've stated several times, is that if someone asks your opinion on something, you owe them an honest opinion based on what is best for them. If you can't give them that, just keep quiet. Look on the pink site. There's these BBW's posting saying, "should I stip or not?" Some girls will say, "oh go ahead, guys like all different kinds of women." Bullshit. Some girls do not need to be in a g-string on stage. Period. I am not going to encourage them to do something they will fail at, which is why you won't find me encouraging them.
It's interesting how whenever a girl post that dancers basically have no ethical obligations to the customers whatsoever, its always the boys from the smurf site who get all up in arms. So here's the questions. Are you stating that the DJ had no moral obligation to a co-worker whatsoever? Do you feel the same way about your "real" job?
xdamage
09-02-2005, 12:51 PM
I've stated several times, is that if someone asks your opinion on something, you owe them an honest opinion based on what is best for them. If you can't give them that, just keep quiet.
Sure, but your assuming he didn't give her good advice, or didn't give her advice that was best for her or what he honestly thought she should do.
Let me paraphrase it again:
She: Should I take MW up on his offer?
DJ: Sure, if your going to do it MW is a good guy to do it with.
Now whats wrong with that advice?
If we really believed there was nothing wrong with trading sex for $$s, then the advice he gave her wouldn't seem bad or particularly self serving. But because sex for $$s is involved the assumption is the DJ was intentionally trying to get this girl to do something wrong, trying to manipulate her.
I wasn't there and I don't know if thats the case, and I can't tell from MWs story that was the case since it sounded like the DJs input was more less irrelevant to her decision, and that he is just a goofball. And for all I know he doesn't think there is any problem with it. I read that about 'taking care of his boy' but I just read that as typical male bragging, which had little or nothing to do with the conversation between the DJ and the dancer, nor did I read into that that the DJ was trying to manipulate her into doing something she didn't already want to do. As sporty said, it sounded like a win-win situation.
Look on the pink site. There's these BBW's posting saying, "should I stip or not?" Some girls will say, "oh go ahead, guys like all different kinds of women." Bullshit. Some girls do not need to be in a g-string on stage. Period. I am not going to encourage them to do something they will fail at, which is why you won't find me encouraging them.
Sure nothing wrong with being honest.
It's interesting how whenever a girl post that dancers basically have no ethical obligations to the customers whatsoever, its always the boys from the smurf site who get all up in arms.
A lot of us don't really care. We assume we are going to be hustled, and we don't hold it against anyone. It is what it is. You have to do your thing to make money. The customer has to be careful not to be taken advantage of. We dont really overload it with a lot of personal feelings because its just business.
So here's the questions. Are you stating that the DJ had no moral obligation to a co-worker whatsoever? Do you feel the same way about your "real" job?
Well I have the good sense not to ask for advice on personal matters from co-workers, and of course I expect them to act morally, but its not obvious to me that the DJ acted in some way that was immoral.
I don't think you would think he acted immorally (or at least not feel outraged by it) if she had asked what the DJ would have thought of going over to clean MW's house for $300. I think it really comes down to the fact that she asked about trading sex for $s, and the basic belief is that encouraging her was not in her best interest and the outrage over the DJs behavior is not so different from that of the church-lady who is outraged over seeing a naked titty on TV. OMG, he encouraged her to have sex with a customer! That bastard!
And I'd be okay with having discussed it from that point of view that included an acknowledgment that sex for $s is a factor in peoples views, but it seems that the discussion has now become so sterilized, so analytized, that people actually believe that they are outraged because someone gave someone else some self serving advice (like that doesn't happen constantly in everyday life, like we arent all guilty having done that from time to time, but none of those other cases gets our feathers ruffled because sex isnt involved).
xdamage
09-02-2005, 12:59 PM
Can we please bring this little pink/blue thing (as X so accurately nailed it) to an end so Gino can let us in on his experience?
I know I really should let it go man. If your going to have an OTC experience yours seems to have worked out perfectly. You've been working on it for a while, and in the end you had a good time, and she had a good time. Sounds good to me.
Susan Wayward
09-02-2005, 01:35 PM
lol.. no maam. Not that I know of. That's what I get for not using proper english when responding.
malady = my lady (the current love of my life)
That would be "milady." (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=milady)
"Malady" (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=malady) could be a really bad stripper name.
Moneywise
09-02-2005, 04:40 PM
That would be "milady." (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=milady)
"Malady" (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=malady) could be a really bad stripper name.
geez. Thanks for the clarification Susan. I know who to go to from now on when I need red marks all over my paper. ::)
When I use slang I am not necessarily concerned with how it is perceived by person A versus person B and so on. ;) (or whether or not the word I use exists in the English dictionary)
mr_punk
09-03-2005, 01:31 AM
Knowing what he knew he did err on the side of "his boy". Call him slimy for that if you'd like but please spare the comparisons to the Pope. I see more of a paradox with Ms. Cleo. If he broke any "SC rules" please point me to them. I would imagine they're written, voted upon, and confirmed as the rule of law by the grand population of SC employees. I would like to examine them so that I may, in the future, abide strictly by them as only a good little custy does.if i may use an analogy. the view from a stripper's POV sort of like this, MW: imagine that the DJ and either the stripper you banged or fingered are siblings rather than co-workers. now, what if his sister approached him for his opinion about dating his good friend MW. however, only the brother knows that his good friend is also one of the biggest poon-hounds on the eastern seaboard. now, while you may be his good friend. she's his flesh and blood and he should look out for her interests before yours. so, it wouldn't be very brotherly of him. if he didn't tell her about his friend's problem of keeping his di#k in his pants.
obviously, a familial relationship isn't equivalent to a working relationship. the former by far supersedes the latter, but by that same token. a stripper/DJ relationship should supersede any customer/DJ relationship. at least, that's the theory. of course, this theory conveniently ignores the fact that this is an industry where the outlaw element is quite prevalent among the people who work in it. IMO, it's a bit hubristic even for an individual who's aware of this fact to think they're somehow immune just because they're co-workers or paying a tip-out. after all, what do you expect from someone who would gladly sell out their own mother for the price of a double cheesebuger. but hey, that's besides the point.::)
She asked his opinion as her friend and co-worker. His answer reflected not her best interests, but the best interests of, "his boy". That is slimy.true. however, while he might technically be their co-worker and both strippers may have thought of him as a friend. given the way he turned both of them out. he never thought of them as his friends in the first place. it looks like he was more MW friend than either of the two strippers.
What I have a problem with is someone that takes advantage of a working friendship. Yes a SC is cutthroat environment. But still, co-workers out to look out for each other.i think the lesson here is that isn't necessarily true even in a sc.
It's interesting how whenever a girl post that dancers basically have no ethical obligations to the customers whatsoever, its always the boys from the smurf site who get all up in arms. So here's the questions. Are you stating that the DJ had no moral obligation to a co-worker whatsoever? Do you feel the same way about your "real" job?LOL...i think you're confusing the boys from the smurf site with the fuckos who post mostly on the pink site. i think most long-time customers or long-time posters down here know that there are weasels like this DJ in your industry and usually customers will meet them in the form of a stripper. so, while i understand why you ladies are upset at the DJ's actions. i simply can't share your moral outrage over it. i view the question of whether or not it's acceptable to manipulate one's co-workers in your industry no differently than the issue of say, stripper shoes, stage fees, independent contractor vs employee status, etc. i leave all that for you strippers to discuss upstairs. it's doesn't affect me as a customer. besides, other than being a source of amusement or indifference. i don't think too many guys are going to get worked up over the idea of one weasel eating another weasel.