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Deogol
09-07-2005, 04:15 PM
OK, this might start spelling like polpoo but I am gonna post it anyhow...

An email I received:

On Friday night, August 26, 2005 before the Hurricane hit,
Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center took the
unprecedented action of calling Mayor Nagin of New Orleans
and Louisiana Governor Blanco personally to plead with them
to begin MANDATORY evacuation of New Orleans and they
said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the
NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before
it was destroyed.
President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in
meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting
all of the paperwork required for a state to request
federal assistance (and not be in violation of the
Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the Insurgency Act).
Just before midnight Friday evening the President
called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign
the request papers so the federal government and the
military could legally begin mobilization and call up.
He was told that they didn't think it necessary for
the federal government to be involved yet.
After the President's final call to the governor she
held meetings with her staff to discuss the political
ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was
decided that if they allowed federal assistance it
would make it look as if they had failed so it was
agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.
Saturday, August 27, before the Hurricane hit, the
President again called Blanco and Nagin requesting
they please sign the papers requesting federal
assistance, that they declare the state an emergency
area, and begin mandatory evacuation.
After a personal plea from the President, Mayor Nagin
agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full
mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused
to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal
action. In frustration the President declared the area
a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana
did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations.
Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into
the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the
Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid before
the federal government can move into state with troops - but that
had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality
of it was called into question to use before the disaster.
Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to New Orleans
for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a
marina and support the gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that
will look
into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal
government for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and
in fact may have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal
funding. As we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never
contacted or coordinating into any planning, though the document implies that they
were.
The suffering people of New Orleans need to be asking some hard questions
as do we all, but they better start with why Governor Blanco refused to even
sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday, August
31,
which further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from
adjoining states.
Or maybe ask why Mayor Nagin keeps harping that the President should
have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own
emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to
use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never
raised a finger to prepare them or activate them. This is a sad time for all of us to see
that a major city
has all but been destroyed and thousands of people have died with
hundreds of thousands more suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing
fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to
God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as possible and we learn
from all the mistakes
to avoid them in the future.

kitana
09-07-2005, 04:19 PM
WOW, if this is actually true, then the Prez just got a few brownie points in my book for trying to help in advance.

Casual Observer
09-07-2005, 06:40 PM
All of the above is factual, however, this section is debatable:


Or maybe ask why Mayor Nagin keeps harping that the President should
have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own
emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to
use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never
raised a finger to prepare them or activate them.

Yes, there were parking lots full of school buses that were submerged rather than used for evacuation, but I can't find anything about requests to GWB for Greyhound buses.

But the rest is accurate.

threlayer
09-08-2005, 11:22 AM
But what about Mississippi and Alabama and FEMA?

Lots of stupidity and blame to go around several times over.

But it's the people who get it in the end.

kitana
09-08-2005, 10:34 PM
All of the above is factual, however, this section is debatable:



Yes, there were parking lots full of school buses that were submerged rather than used for evacuation, but I can't find anything about requests to GWB for Greyhound buses.

But the rest is accurate.

Damn! That REALLY PISSES ME THE HELL OFF big time!!! Why? I don't get it. What do you gain by refusing the governments help in crisis time? It's apparent what you loose, but just think of al those people who could have been saved. Not to mention all the furbabies!

This really annoys the shit outta me. Now I'm going to write a few letters to show my displeasure.

Well, hubby will write them I'll just dictate, and he'll make it sound better.

He can turn "You lying sack of cow shit, how in the blue fuck....." into something scathing and elequent, and tactful. It's his superpower,lol.

Deogol
09-09-2005, 07:18 AM
Hmmm. I just saw a Red Cross and Salvation Army TV interview and they are saying they were held out of NO for a couple of days so they wouldn't "impede the evacuation." Apparently someone thought if these relief organizations came into town, people would be less likely to leave.

The Katrina TV drama continues!

Melonie
09-10-2005, 08:16 AM
But what about Mississippi and Alabama and FEMA?

Gov. Barbour of MS declared a federal emergency and officially requested federal assistance + out-of-state national guard & other assistance on the day Katrina hit, whereas Gov. Blanco had yet to declare a federal emergency despite repeated requests (some from GWB personally) to do so. The fundamental point is that by declaring a federal emergency, the Gov. of the state confers legal authority to personnel from other states. Otherwise, under the Posse Comitatus Act, personnel from federal agencies or personnel from other states have no legal authority to do anything on their own in that state. This is the reason that Gov. Barbour's federal emergency declaration allowed dozens of Florida state troopers to enforce laws, suppress looting, and aid rescue efforts in MS just as soon as they were able to drive there from the Florida panhandle.

When the truth finally comes out, I suspect we will discover that Gov. Blanco resisted doing this in Louisiana because she was afraid what out-of-state law enforcement would find was/is actually going on in New Orleans. For that matter, Gov. Blanco could have sent her 1000 Louisiana state troopers into New Orleans to help restore order immediately after Katrina hit, but she chose not to do that either. There's a big stinking pile which has yet to be shoveled in New Orleans, IMHO in more ways than one.

Melonie
09-10-2005, 09:13 AM
I wonder if this is accurate ? ...

"From the Wayne Madsen Report:

September 9, 2005 -- Dallas meeting plans reconstruction of New Orleans without poor African Americans. According to well-informed New Orleans sources, New Orleans' wealthiest families, including those who are direct descendants of the French who settled New Orleans (not the Acadians [Cajuns] who were poor refugees from British tyranny in Nova Scotia) are meeting in Dallas today with Bush administration officials, New Orleans city officials, wealthy Texas oilmen, and bankers to plan for the reconstruction of New Orleans. These wealthy New Orleans residents live in the gated community of Audobon Place, a section of the city near the Garden District replete with personal helipads that still has running water and sewage and was only slightly affected by hurricane Katrina. It is now reportedly being patrolled by private Israeli security forces. Yesterday's Wall Street Journal ran a piece with more details on this story.

The Dallas meeting focused on rebuilding and re-zoning New Orleans without the "criminal element," a code word for the city's poor African American community.

These New Orleans residents have been scattered across the United States and are now under the control of FEMA. There is an understanding by the wealthy New Orleans elite that the poor will never be able to return. The Journal reported that the person who chaired the Dallas meeting was Jimmy Riess, one of the wealthy New Orleans elite who also served as Mayor Ray Nagin's Chairman of the Regional Transit Authority, which is in charge of the city's buses, trolleys, and trains. New Orleans sources report that public transportation was purposely not used to evacuate the poor New Orleans residents as a means to depopulate the poorer and more flood-prone sections of the city. In fact, after the properties in New Orleans poorer communities are razed many of the deed records of the poor and middle class contained in government offices and title companies of Orleans Parish and neighboring Jefferson Parish may end up being casualties of the flood. As one New Orleans source put it, "people will not have proof they ever owned anything." As for renters and residents of public housing, they will be prevented from returning to their native city, according to New Orleans sources. Louisiana's Republican House member Richard Baker, a strong Bush ally, may have tipped his hand about the future plans for New Orleans when he told a group of lobbyists, "We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans. We couldn't do it, but God did."

robinbanks
09-10-2005, 01:03 PM
I wonder if this is accurate ? ...

"From the Wayne Madsen Report:

September 9, 2005 -- Dallas meeting plans reconstruction of New Orleans without poor African Americans. According to well-informed New Orleans sources, New Orleans' wealthiest families, including those who are direct descendants of the French who settled New Orleans (not the Acadians [Cajuns] who were poor refugees from British tyranny in Nova Scotia) are meeting in Dallas today with Bush administration officials, New Orleans city officials, wealthy Texas oilmen, and bankers to plan for the reconstruction of New Orleans. These wealthy New Orleans residents live in the gated community of Audobon Place, a section of the city near the Garden District replete with personal helipads that still has running water and sewage and was only slightly affected by hurricane Katrina. It is now reportedly being patrolled by private Israeli security forces. Yesterday's Wall Street Journal ran a piece with more details on this story.

The Dallas meeting focused on rebuilding and re-zoning New Orleans without the "criminal element," a code word for the city's poor African American community.

These New Orleans residents have been scattered across the United States and are now under the control of FEMA. There is an understanding by the wealthy New Orleans elite that the poor will never be able to return. The Journal reported that the person who chaired the Dallas meeting was Jimmy Riess, one of the wealthy New Orleans elite who also served as Mayor Ray Nagin's Chairman of the Regional Transit Authority, which is in charge of the city's buses, trolleys, and trains. New Orleans sources report that public transportation was purposely not used to evacuate the poor New Orleans residents as a means to depopulate the poorer and more flood-prone sections of the city. In fact, after the properties in New Orleans poorer communities are razed many of the deed records of the poor and middle class contained in government offices and title companies of Orleans Parish and neighboring Jefferson Parish may end up being casualties of the flood. As one New Orleans source put it, "people will not have proof they ever owned anything." As for renters and residents of public housing, they will be prevented from returning to their native city, according to New Orleans sources. Louisiana's Republican House member Richard Baker, a strong Bush ally, may have tipped his hand about the future plans for New Orleans when he told a group of lobbyists, "We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans. We couldn't do it, but God did."

OMG, the way they took thier time evacuating NO was trajic enough, but this is just to much. What happens to the poor who were scattered by this trajedy now?

Verity
09-10-2005, 02:53 PM
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin DID declare a state of emergency and ordered a MANDATORY evacuation of the city.



Gov. Blanco asked for federal asssistance on Aug. 28th which was days before Katrina struck.

...

She also took the proper steps as specified by this law:

Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act



Former FEMA chief of staff Jane Bullock was recently quoted saying that "T]he moment the president declared a federal disaster, it became a federal responsibility. ... The federal government took ownership over the response."

The federal government declared exactly that on Aug. 29th 2005

Also according to DHS' own website declares that DHS "will assume primary responsibility on March 1st [2005] for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort."

Bridgette
09-10-2005, 03:08 PM
Knowing what I know of that wealthy community's attitude, I wouldn't be surprised. I was talking to a wealthy customer from the area last night who actually commented (and I'm directly quoting here), "it had to be an act of god to get the blacks outta New Orleans, huh?"

Unfortunately this attitude is what prevails among NOLA elites and many/most whites in general. My family included (I was a black sheep long before I became a stripper). Those French descendants ::) value their family heritage so much and use it as a measure for a person's "worth". They want the poor blacks out of the city so their families can have it to themselves, so to speak, conveniently ignoring the fact that it's their families who BROUGHT those blacks over during the slave trade. NOLA was one of the biggest slave trading ports in America and those French settlers were largely responsible for that. I'm sure if those "elites" were still allowed to have them as slaves they wouldn't mind keeping them around tho. Ugh.

Bridgette
09-10-2005, 03:33 PM
Yes, there were parking lots full of school buses that were submerged rather than used for evacuation, but I can't find anything about requests to GWB for Greyhound buses.

Transcript from a public radio interview with Ray Nagin.


I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here. I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.


He sure did ask for Greyhound busses.

Melonie
09-11-2005, 04:05 PM
All I'm hoping for is that after all the floodwater is gone, that there will indeed be an OBJECTIVE FACTUAL investigation of exactly what the hell was going on down there both before and during the Katrina disaster - with the only objective being to learn from our mistakes to avoid repeating them. However, it's more likely that we'll get a witch hunt instead.

It's also looking like Celine's Three Laws directly applied to the New Orleans situation, as they arguably applied to the fall of Rome, the fall of the British Empire, the decline and fall of the Soviet Union ...

#1 - national security produces national insecurity

#2 - authoritarianism causes miscommunication, and eventual idiocy

#3 - an honest politician is a plague upon society



~

dlabtot
09-11-2005, 04:21 PM
There's plenty of facts available for those who care to look at them.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9287434/site/newsweek/

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,1103525,00.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/11/national/nationalspecial/11response.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/10/AR2005091001529_pf.html

http://www.boston.com/news/weather/articles/2005/09/11/chronology_of_errors_how_a_disaster_spread/

Sophia81
09-11-2005, 04:29 PM
Deogol,

I don't want to be rude or confrontation but I think it is fairly irresponsible to post such an inflammatory statement without offering a source. There are a couple of points in the statement that most definately sound false. For instance, if Bush spent Friday meeting with his advisors then he did so at his ranch (because on the Friday before the hurricane he was on vacation at his ranch-same place he was in the days before the World Trade Center Terrorist Attacks). Also, IF he spent Friday meeting with his advisors about the evacuation of New Orleans then he must be psychic because on Friday the hurricance had just left south Florida (where I live) and it had not yet formed into a serious hurricane. It was category 1 when it hit Florida and it slows down over land. It speeds up over warm water. The hurricane hit New Orleans Monday. Friday they did not know it was going to hit New Orleans or the strength it would have if it did hit there.

Your post seems like political spin. We need to remember to think things out and consider the source before believing them.

Thanks to everyone that took time to investigate, site sources, and include the information in their replies (like Verity). I think its so important to think for ourselves and do our own investigation rather than blindly believing what we are told.

Melonie
09-11-2005, 05:13 PM
dlabtot, you might want to read all the way through your linked articles. Apparently some more factual information was actually included in the back pages despite the title and despite the early page 'commentary' ... from the msnbc link last page ->


(snip)"the meeting [aboard Air Force One 3 days after Katrina hit] came to a head when Mayor Nagin blew up during a fraught discussion of "who's in charge?" Nagin slammed his hand down on the table and told Bush, "We just need to cut through this and do what it takes to have a more-controlled command structure. If that means federalizing it, let's do it."

A debate over "federalizing" the National Guard had been rattling in Washington for the previous three days. Normally, the Guard is under the control of the state governor, but the Feds can take over—if the governor asks them to. Nagin suggested that Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, the Pentagon's on-scene commander, be put in charge. According to Senator Vitter, Bush turned to Governor Blanco and said, "Well, what do you think of that, Governor?" Blanco told Bush, "I'd rather talk to you about that privately." To which Nagin responded, "Well, why don't you do that now?"

The meeting broke up. Bush and Blanco disappeared to talk. More than a week later, there was still no agreement. Blanco didn't want to give up her authority, and Bush didn't press."(snip)

"

dlabtot
09-11-2005, 05:28 PM
What are you talking about? why did you say I didn't read the articles? Why even make such an insulting comment? Nothing in them contradicts anything I've said in any of my posts. I have no idea why you quoted that particular section.

The reason I posted those links is so that people could read the facts in context for themselves and make their own informed judgements rather than just read some pointless flame war over anonymous chain letters, talking points and tiny snippets of quotes taken out of context.

Verity
09-12-2005, 03:15 PM
Normally, the Guard is under the control of the state governor, but the Feds can take over—if the governor asks them to.


I am reposting this information to address the "if" part of Melonie's post .

Former FEMA chief of staff Jane Bullock was recently quoted saying that "The moment the president declared a federal disaster, it became a federal responsibility. ... The federal government took ownership over the response."

The federal government declared exactly that on Aug. 29th 2005

Also according to DHS' own website declares that DHS

"will assume primary responsibility on March 1st [2005] for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort."

kyra1105
06-13-2006, 02:20 AM
Well i have talked to some of my friendīs from new orlines after this whole thing i left 2 weekīs befor and i just have to say that people should be at shame for how this was handle why is it OK for the USA GOV TO HELP AND PAY FOR THE WHOLE FUC::: WORLD BUT NOT THERE OWN..........and what about all the SUPERSTAR GRUPīS how manny big time singerīs or actors did any thing usa has the most amount of people that are loaded with $$$$$$ after us the litle pepole spent ourīs on there movieīs and CDīS the only pepole i have heard did some thing are the hip hop and rapp bands and singerīs and we all know how the WHITE USA FEELīS about theas pepole.........but who do they ever help exept them selfīs

the usa Gov should be feeding and helping there own . and UN should grow some dam bols and help afganistan and irak and every ather country they dumped on USA.........i Get so mad when i talk about this .. i lost manny dear friendīs down south ......WHY DIDīT ANY ONE FROM THE GOV THE HELP THE POOR BEFOR OR AFTER ? DID THEY EVEN TRY TO GET THE POOR OUT ANSWER NO THEY DID NOT !!!!!!!!!! A friend of mine was lookd out side the super dome with her 5 year old son dead in her arms for almost 2 dayīs .................................................. .......... :'( shame on DAM GOV, pepole .