View Full Version : Give it up for the fat girls!
MeganS
10-27-2005, 07:41 PM
Ah, once again, how I love them pinkies!::)
MeganS
10-27-2005, 07:46 PM
without further ado, I end my posts on this topic and let the ever-so-enlightened strippers keep spewing their shit.
Nevermind, I lied
Jenny
10-27-2005, 07:50 PM
Now where exactly did I encourage the mean comments? And yes, since it is their hard earned money and they wanted to say, I lOVE FAT GIRLS!!! I would back down.
Well, honey, it's not a matter of backing down. In fact, it's more matter of either standing by whatcha said - you don't see how "fat girls are ugly and I've traumatized by seeing them dance, what do y'all think of them?" is encouraging nasty comments? Where did you go to kindergarten?
And by the way - I'm sure the pinkies love you back.
MeganS
10-27-2005, 08:01 PM
Yes, I am traumatized, (also, I didn't say fat girls are ugly, check yourself) but I asked what they thought...NOT "Fat girls are nasty, DON"T YOU AGREE??? Don't try to break down to me what I "said".
Jenny
10-27-2005, 08:11 PM
Okay, look baby: whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm sure you were being perfectly neutral and harmless and cuddly with that post. I'm sure it was intended to create a nice love in. I'm sorry for trying to break your post down for you - I just thought you could use the help. After all, we are discussing something other than your ass and how horny you are.
Peace, darling, and good luck in your life.
SportsWriter2
10-27-2005, 08:12 PM
Thanks Megan. This thread was good therapy for me. It helped me understand my problems with fat dancers.
Ladies this is fodder for the Blue Boys (me included) but it might be time to take it to PM. Im tired and need to go home soon. I dont want to lock the thread, OK?
FBR
SportsWriter2
10-27-2005, 08:48 PM
I'm sorry for trying to break your post down for you - I just thought you could use the help.
See Punkster, Jenny used the term correctly like a good coach. You can break down a post just like a game film or a player. :D
A month from now, the only thing I'll remember about this thread is Megan's glistening ass and MW's grossburger.
Moneywise
10-27-2005, 08:49 PM
http://www.feableweiner.com/jeff/haterade.jpg
I hear that's a pretty good drink & have yet to try it. Are any experienced haterade drinkers in the house?
SportsWriter2
10-27-2005, 08:54 PM
Haterade? Does that come in lemon/lime? Where do you get these cruel food pictures?
Moneywise
10-27-2005, 09:10 PM
Haterade? Does that come in lemon/lime? Where do you get these cruel food pictures?
I'm secretly in love with Google. Shhhh... it's a secret.
MeganS
10-27-2005, 11:47 PM
Hey! BTW, did I mention how much I love you guys, and this whole thread was intended for you?!
xdamage
10-28-2005, 09:18 PM
OT?: We love you too megan. Now can we get some more pics of that ultra-fine ass of yours?
SportsWriter2
10-30-2005, 05:26 AM
OT?: We love you too megan. Now can we get some more pics of that ultra-fine ass of yours?
Oh yeah, and the new boobs, too! :great:
mr_punk
10-30-2005, 05:02 PM
Okay, I don't think I've ever hung my thong on the peg of law and club rules except in discussions about being arrested or fined.i'm not saying it's your argument. in fact, i didn't point out any individual. however, i'm sure you've seen it in one form or another.
It's generally been my contention that the optimum range of stripper looks and deeds should be pegged to club norms (not rules), consistency of pricing and product, and targeted marketing. I contend yours is the specious argument designed to brush aside the merits of a business model that doesn't match your agenda.my, that sounds quite reasonable and persuasive. it almost covers the stench of groupthink underneath. in any case, i'm not a stripper. so, it's no of concern of mine exactly how you ladies work out any of these issues amongst yourselves. anyway, i hope it works out for ladies. who knows? with enough hair-pulling and eyeball clawing. you just might achieve the level of unanimity and standardization you so desire. btw, what do you propose to do with the strippers that don't meet this optimum range or consistency of product with respect to club norms? especially, in the looks department. for example, take overweight strippers. do you plan to retire them to the glue factory or herd them into some kind of specialized sc for chubby chasers? now, before you start blathering about the BMI. i'll save you the trouble. here's an example of an overweight stripper. (http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54842)
Stripper deathmatch? Where? My responses to Megan? Read them again. They're mainly aimed at a mindset represented by you, not her.yeah, and it was not only funny, but practically psychic as well. i think it's hilarious that she chose to post down here to avoid biatchy strippers. yet, an eyeball clawing fest started anyway. oh gee, i wonder why? now, i don't exactly know what's going between you ladies and i don't want to know. that's something for you ladies to work out amongst yourselves. so, i'm not taking sides here.
frankly, i find this whole notion of blaming one stripper cutting into another stripper's money misguided. i think they're assessing blame to the wrong party. but hey, if you flaky strippers would rather claw each other eyeballs out. i'm more than happy to leave you to it. still, meagan did make one point that many strippers don't seem to get. there is absolutely one thing that will cut into any kind of stripper's money. a whiny stripper who constantly bitches to customers about other strippers and/or not making money rather than STFU, getting her tits out and grinding away.
Also, you're sounding dangerously close to taking a position that you want the same editorial management in the basement, as you call it, as they allegedly practice upstairs.oh please, the only dangerous thing about it is possibly getting caught in the crossfire and getting my eyeballs clawed out or a migraine headache by all the hissing and meowing.
I thought that you practiced what you preached down here, that you thought it was the superior of the two styles of moderation, and that you had hopes that your style would catch on upstairs, not the other way around. I think it's wonderful there's a looser style here, yet I don't begrudge the tighter focus up there. If you all want to adopt a tighter focus here, hey, I wouldn't begrudge that either. If I realize the focus here is being tightened to what I heretofore thought most of you considered as cheerleading, I'll play by the consensus rather than be an "extras" girl. Hmmm, kinda ironic that.
well, you thought wrong. it's not about the styles of moderation. i mean, if someone chooses to come down here to escape biatchy strippers. well, perhaps the moderation isn't all that tightly focused upstairs. now, isn't that ironic? anyway, i think you're confusing me with the type of customer who is interested in every little detail about stripping. i am not Maury Povich. so, i don't have to try and relate, express or feign sympathy, validation, etc on any stripper issue that doesn't concern me as a customer. unlike some customers, i'm perfectly content leaving you ladies to your own devices. for future reference, i don't mind if you or any other stripper posting a similar topic (like other strippers cutting into your money). however, hopefully you will understand when i say, "biatches, why are you telling me this? do i look like Montell Williams? i am not Montell Williams.".
Never say I'm not prepared. This is on order. I was thinking it could be used in your baptism.hmmm..kinky and tempting, but i'm going to decline. although, i don't go to temple much or keep the shabbat holy these days. i'm sure my rabbi would say that doesn't look like a proper mikvah.
Megan - you started this thread by saying that you don't like to look at fat girls, and encouraging the guys to say mean, bad things about them.oh, don't start dragging customers into your little catfight. customers don't need Meagan's encouragment in that area. they can do it all on their own. you don't think we notice that there are flabby, out of shape strippers working in sc? get real...customers judge strippers on their physical appearance all the time. so, if the pork chop fits....
evan_essence
10-31-2005, 07:34 AM
my, that sounds quite reasonable and persuasive. it almost covers the stench of groupthink underneath.I fail to see how having a standard or norm about weight limits is stenchy. It's simply a business model based on targeting customers who presumedly (granted, presumedly) want those limits.
who knows? with enough hair-pulling and eyeball clawing. you just might achieve the level of unanimity and standardization you so desire.Explain to me how a heated discussion between Megan and I is a hair-pulling, eyeball clawing contest, and the same type of exchange between you and I is not characterized as such? Is it because she used the term "pinky" derogatorily? You routinely use the word flaky in your observations. It's interesting that two women's exchange is dismissively called a cat fight when a little emotion is displayed with our trading of points. I don't think Megan and I are having a cat fight. On the other hand, you and I are having one.
btw, what do you propose to do with the strippers that don't meet this optimum range or consistency of product with respect to club norms? especially, in the looks department. for example, take overweight strippers.If they're outside the range determined by the club to be optimum, they shouldn't even be hired. Are they hired at Hooters? Wow, what do you know. A successful business model with standards. They even survived a potshot from the Justice Department. It's okay if you don't believe in them, really. Just don't dismiss my proposals as specious when they're actually working in a similar business environment.
yeah, and it was not only funny, but practically psychic as well. i think it's hilarious that she chose to post down here to avoid biatchy strippers. yet, an eyeball clawing fest started anyway. oh gee, i wonder why? now, i don't exactly know what's going between you ladies and i don't want to know. that's something for you ladies to work out amongst yourselves. so, i'm not taking sides here.You're not? Then why are you going round with me? I was restating your argument. You're against imposition of club standards. You generally think strippers' arguments that someone outside a given standard is hurting their money are bunk. I was rephrasing these points to Megan because she didn't seem to be responding to them. Her choice, of course, but I wasn't sure they'd even registered.
frankly, i find this whole notion of blaming one stripper cutting into another stripper's money misguided. i think they're assessing blame to the wrong party.This was my point to Megan. Mr_P doesn't think it cuts into a stripper's money, so why hate on the fat girls? I don't know how you explain away the impact of customers actually leaving her club, as she's said she's seen firsthand. Perhaps you believe she has flaky eyesight; you'll have to address that one.
still, meagan did make one point that many strippers don't seem to get. there is absolutely one thing that will cut into any kind of stripper's money. a whiny stripper who constantly bitches to customers about other strippers and/or not making money rather than STFU, getting her tits out and grinding away.Well, I believe I characterized that point of view already. I used a cheap BJ in my example.
well, you thought wrong. it's not about the styles of moderation. i mean, if someone chooses to come down here to escape biatchy strippers. well, perhaps the moderation isn't all that tightly focused upstairs. now, isn't that ironic?Are you reading the same thread as I am? She specifically stated in her OP that she would probably get flamed by biatchy strippers here. Hard for me to understand why you think she came here to get away from what she anticipated.
for future reference, i don't mind if you or any other stripper posting a similar topic (like other strippers cutting into your money). however, hopefully you will understand when i say, "biatches, why are you telling me this? do i look like Montell Williams? i am not Montell Williams."I got that from your very first post in this thread. But when I mentioned that point (not mentioning you by name but the viewpoint in a general way), you'd think I'd introduced some wacky time cube (http://www.timecube.com) theory that nobody'd ever mentioned before and then everyone winds up arguing with me instead of the points that weren't even mine.
-Ev
Jenny
10-31-2005, 08:36 AM
oh, don't start dragging customers into your little catfight.
Okay, at no point (in this thread) did I criticize a customer response to fat girls. I simply pointed out that the thread genesis was hardly sweetness and light, and one can't blame pinkies for a degeneration that doesn't exist. And - if I may so point out - the pinky input, with the exception of mine, which delineated around the practicality of "standardizing" clubs with a method other than the one in place (i.e. the girls who don't make money die of starvation, or lose enough weight to look good and then start a vicious cycle), has been almost inevitably in agreement with Meghan - and you get nearly the precise same thing upstairs - "Is 43 too old to dance" gets replies from "Yes" to "Yes, unless you look a lot younger than 43". There is no "I'm OK, You're OK" attitude. THIS IS THE GROUPTHINK, baby, not the friendly love-in. Consider, punk: you are the groupthink. You are just like everyone else. Is your sense of indentity slipping away? Do you feel like a baby who looked in a mirror for the first time and realized that he does not contain the universe? Do you feel an urge to run out and buy a lapdance during which you DON'T use lubricant, because it's your money and if she wants it, she is just going to have to take it raw? Like, just to re-establish yourself as a badass?
And anyway, whatever happened to letting us claw each other's eyes out in peace?
customers don't need Meagan's encouragment in that area. they can do it all on their own. you don't think we notice that there are flabby, out of shape strippers working in sc? get real...customers judge strippers on their physical appearance all the time. so, if the pork chop fits....
I'm sorry. You are suggesting right now that fat dancer's should wear pork chops? Why? Are they slimming? Particularly attractive? Likely to attract customers who skipped lunch? And what about fat dancers who are vegetarians? What should they wear? (and please, let us not discuss root vegetables). And how exactly, would one wear a pork chop? - what precisely, would it fit? Like attach little strings and use it as a thong? Because that doesn't seem... you know, like it would meet code (or meat code, hee hee). I was simply pointing out that the thread genesis may not have been "I make no money because of fat girls", it was an equally unpalatable "Fat Girls Are So Gross: Discuss". If y'all don't need the encouragement, then why would we be encouraging you, exactly? I have my suspicions, and they are not along the line of "oh, I was just really wondering what the guys here thought of fat dancers."
MeganS
11-01-2005, 10:20 PM
I'm sorry, it's one thing to clear a stage, but when people leave the bar when you get up , time to reconsider your line of work. You're hurting our money too.
That's my one point where other girls are hurting my money. I can't exactly keep happy guys that aren't there anymore! I've literally seen a couple of certain girls (that I dance with on a regular basis) chase guys out of the damn bar! I'm not trying to be an uppity "I'm so fabulous" bitch, it's just the truth. Case closed.
xdamage
11-02-2005, 06:18 AM
That's my one point where other girls are hurting my money. I can't exactly keep happy guys that aren't there anymore! I've literally seen a couple of certain girls (that I dance with on a regular basis) chase guys out of the damn bar! I'm not trying to be an uppity "I'm so fabulous" bitch, it's just the truth. Case closed.
Putting aside all of the need to be PC, there is a valid point here. In most businesses the appearance (and the behavior!) of the employees reflects on the business. If the employees look like shit, or treats customers poorly, it often does affect a customers decision to do business and future business with a company.
I don't know how you "regulate" strippper weight, however employeers can set standards for dress, grooming, even weight in some cases. When it comes to entertainment I think they should have the rights to set more stringent standards because the employees are part of the "show" But things are never so simple. The law is sufficiently wishy washy on such things that employeers rights, even if protected, can be costly to defend so employeers may not bother trying.
You really have to ask though, why are the club owners hiring overweight girls in the first place? Did they start work that way? Did they gain the weight later? Why aren't the club owners setting higher standards for appearance AND behavior?
evan_essence
11-02-2005, 07:29 AM
That's my one point where other girls are hurting my money. I can't exactly keep happy guys that aren't there anymore! I've literally seen a couple of certain girls (that I dance with on a regular basis) chase guys out of the damn bar! I'm not trying to be an uppity "I'm so fabulous" bitch, it's just the truth. Case closed.Okay, let me stick my foot in it one more time. I understand you're not trying to project that you're so fabulous. I happen to agree with you on your point - mostly. But perhaps there's more to it than that, and I love - absolutely love - to overanalyze the hypothetical, so just to play punk's advocate for a moment, here goes.
You were busy with other customers when they left. The inherent problem may be there are too few girls, not that there are fat girls there. If there were more customer choices, would the heavy girl(s) have mattered? Also, if there had been slim girls dancing, the customers wouldn't have left, but what would the customers have done instead? Been satisfied with the stage show until you were free? Or sought dances from the slim girls? Only until you were free or through the rest of the night? The latter wouldn't directly benefit you. During times you aren't busy, those slim girls will be your competition. Plus, do you know or suspect that the fat girls have driven a certain number of customers into your arms?
See where I'm coming from here, with respect to the money aspect? There's a line of thought that says perhaps many of those customers wouldn't have been yours anyway because of factors other than the fat girls. Don't take these observations as a personal assault; I'm simply reflecting on the various elements involved in this type of scenario. I take your word for it that it's not a blessing in your individual case, but perhaps it's a mixed blessing in other cases?
One could possibly argue that this scenario is not much different than other competitive elements we face. You and I generally want the other girls to be somewhat desirable in order to sustain the overall customer base, but by how much? We certainly don't want them to be too much more desirable than we are or we lose out that way. I contend, and your observations seem to agree, there's a range of desirability that's optimum for us and the club, but I've been told that my line of thinking on that is just an excuse I've conjured to exclude those dancers I've got a prejudice against. That allegation against me usually involves my view on extras girls, but it would seem, by extension, to also apply to this subject.
Okay, you don't have to address any of that. I was simply masturbating outloud. Er, I mean thinking. And trying to clear up where I was coming from, minus any smart assitude that had crept into my earlier posts.
-Ev
doc-catfish
11-02-2005, 08:20 AM
Also, if there had been slim girls dancing, the customers wouldn't have left, but what would the customers have done instead? Been satisfied with the stage show until you were free? Or sought dances from the slim girls? Only until you were free or through the rest of the night? The latter wouldn't directly benefit you. During times you aren't busy, those slim girls will be your competition.
I should also point out that she wouldn't be just competing against slim girls at her club, but the slim girls at the club down the highway, and the one in the neighboring town, and the one in the town after that. What is often forgotten here is that we've made a consumer choice on whom to buy dances from long before we've entered the club.
In any market where there are competing clubs, there are the marquee clubs where the gravy of the customer dollars are spent, and there are the "also-ran" clubs where guys go to have a beer, maybe drop a few ones on the rail, and leave, or because they're the nondiscriminating type. Discriminating customers usually avoid these places entirely.
Is Megan's point here valid? Probably so. but working alongside fatties and otherwise unattractive dancers is a risk an attractive dancer takes when she decides to work in a low-end establishment.
Jenny
11-02-2005, 08:28 AM
Putting aside all of the need to be PC, there is a valid point here. In most businesses the appearance (and the behavior!) of the employees reflects on the business. If the employees look like shit, or treats customers poorly, it often does affect a customers decision to do business and future business with a company.
I don't know how you "regulate" strippper weight, however employeers can set standards for dress, grooming, even weight in some cases. When it comes to entertainment I think they should have the rights to set more stringent standards because the employees are part of the "show" But things are never so simple. The law is sufficiently wishy washy on such things that employeers rights, even if protected, can be costly to defend so employeers may not bother trying.
You really have to ask though, why are the club owners hiring overweight girls in the first place? Did they start work that way? Did they gain the weight later? Why aren't the club owners setting higher standards for appearance AND behavior?
You are neglecting the fact that the business you refer to is OURS. We are all in business for ourselves - the club doesn't hire us; we hire them (which is also why clubs don't have more stringent standards). Back to the issue of who would regulate this and how - again, I would think that if these girls are driving guys out of the club in the numbers that Meghan is claiming, that they would not be able to make rent - at least that would be the case in the vast majority of clubs. If the fat, ugly girls are making rent and not starving themselves into desirable thinness there are OBVIOUSLY enough guys out there that want to see and touch them. So regulation is working - it just isn't working in the way you think it ought to.
She also pointed out that in her club the dancers are paid, nominally. Okay - this is the same thing. Obviously the club doesn't bring in enough cash, or it is not a pleasant enough place to work to attract large numbers of high or medium/high or (maybe) medium caliber girls. If it was, and the club was paying, thus eliminating the incentive to bring in as many girls as will come, the ugly/fat/drive out the customers girls will be phased out (this is what happened last time I was in Guam. After that every time someone had less than 30 chips she would be all "please don't send me to Hollywood"). In a club that pays and still doesn't have enough high caliber dancers to phase out the low caliber ones (and for the purposes of this post I am using your guys's definitons of high and low caliber and not my own) it is obviously a low end club that NEEDS to bring in dancers, regardless of their appearance, or else poor Meghan will be on stage all night (I once worked in a such a club with 2 girls. But the end of the night my feet felt like mulch).
miabella
11-02-2005, 10:18 AM
guys leave the club when all types of girls are on stage, in my experience. sometimes they'll come in when they see a larger dancer, and leave when a more slim one is on stage, if that is their preference. sometimes a dancer being an ethnicity they don't go for being on stage will make customers leave the club. and yes, sometimes customers will leave when a a larger dancer is on stage. size may not be the reason customers are bailing on megan's club. perhaps the fat girls are also rude to customers. it's unclear.
i guess i am reluctant to blame the fat girls for destroying the titty bar's business when there are plenty of non-fat dancers with poor selling ability and bad attitude that often make customers unhappy also.
xdamage
11-02-2005, 11:28 AM
You are neglecting the fact that the business you refer to is OURS. We are all in business for ourselves - the club doesn't hire us; we hire them (which is also why clubs don't have more stringent standards).
I didn't neglect that because that's not a fact. Sounds more like a naive kiddie view of the way business works.
You are contractors at best, but it's still the businesses choice about who they allow to work for them. While it might make you feel good to blow up your own sense of self importance in the business of stripping, you are not equal to the business, or the business owners.
When you are the person(s) putting up several hundred thousands, or millions of your own money, when you are the one carrying the majority of the risk, then you can say it's OURS (or MINE)!. When you are putting up the $$s every month for the property, paying for the insurance, paying for the rights to pay the commercial music in a public place, when you are managing and paying for all of the rest of the employees and contractors that are part of the business, when you are stocking the supplies, when you are dealing with making sure the carpets are cleaned, and so on, then you are the business, the entity (the group of people) who has a greater risk (and potentially greater rewards).
As it is though you are just a contractor. Your share of the risk (and rewards) is a small fraction of the business owners. You come and go as you please. If you don't like things you walk away and go to another club or get another job, losing little because you've invested little.
There are always new girls being born ready to fill your shoes when and if you do walk away (and you will, and you're shoes will be filled by other girls looking for work), but for the business owners to walk away is entirely different matter.
Conversely if it wasn't for others putting up a lot more than you are risk wise and time wise, you wouldn't be stripping. You'd be in business for yourself with nowhere to sell your service but the streets. You need them (the strip club owners) far more than they need you (frankly you are replaceable as most employees are in most businesses that hire laborers that don't require a lot of training for a job that pays reasonably well).
So I think it's more interesting why is it that those who own the business, who have a lot more to lose then you do if it fails, are hiring "fat" girls. Maybe it's not as bad for business as the dancers (who aren't responsible for the final bottom line) would believe? But more likely I suspect they just don't give a shit if they lose customers or strippers. Why? Because both strippers and customers are replaceable. There are always new strippers who want $$s. There are always new customers who will get suckered into paying far too much for far too little. Old strippers eventually leave. Old customers eventuall leave. Both to be replaced by a whole new set of suckers and suckers. All the while the strip club owners continue to rack in a steady stream of profits.
i guess i am reluctant to blame the fat girls for destroying the titty bar's business when there are plenty of non-fat dancers with poor selling ability and bad attitude that often make customers unhappy also.
I've left clubs for poor service, bad attitudes, and overly pushy strippers on more than one occassion. You don't need to be fat to push customers out the door.
Jenny
11-02-2005, 11:41 AM
No honey, you misunderstand - I'm not saying that we own the club. The club does. But the club does not own our labour. We do. As a dancer I am independant from the club. As you say - I can walk away from, I work at 3 clubs in a week if I want (well, here I can, because the clubs more-or-less follow labour laws). The club's business is selling liquor and getting dancers to pay them to come in and work - I have no part of that. MY business is selling dances - and that I can well and truly claim and own. It has nothing to do with building up a sense of my own importance, and it has even less to do with the number of girls prepared to work (although in Meghan's model, seeing as the club has to provide pretty serious incentive, I think they'd probably be in some trouble if she left - there aren't always a plethora of girls ready to step into your shoes) - it has to do with you inaccurately setting up a model in which the clubs "hire" us, and therefore own and regulate our labour.
And if I may say - I am not a kid. I'm relatively sure that it is fairly clear that I am not 18 years old (and by that I don't want to imply that your condescension would be welcome to or appropriate directed at someone who was 18 ). I think it is also clear that I have been in the business a long time, and in a variety of places. My view is not naive - I'm not saying that everyone will agree with it, or that I have the final word, but I don't think you can viably claim that it is not well informed and mature.
By the way - if I may approach your question (again) the answer would be (as I said) that they don't hire us. We pay them. Part of their business is getting dancers to give them money, just as it is to get customers to buy drinks.
xdamage
11-02-2005, 11:55 AM
No honey, you misunderstand - I'm not saying that we own the club. The club does. But the club does not own our labour.
...
I'm not saying that everyone will agree with it, or that I have the final word, but I don't think you can viably claim that it is not well informed and mature.
Well okay perhaps I misunderstood, but I don't see how your point was relevant.
We all own our own labour. Even me, an employee. Because when it comes down to that there little difference between any employee and any contractor. As an employee I can quit whenever I want. I owe them notice, but I don't owe them much more. As a contractor it's not so different, the contract defines the rules of disengagement. At best you have a contract that allows you to give them no notice that you are quitting. Minimally good for you but it also means that the business will likely view you as even more expendable asset (like a bottle of liquor, it is an assumed temporary asset, expected to be replaced often).
There is nothing really significantly unique about a stripper contractor vs any other contractor or employee so I don't understand why the side tracking and how that fact is relevant to hiring fat dancers anymore than any other line of work which consists of a business and employee/contractor relationship, and sometimes employeers hires people we would rather not work with.
But it seems to me that if the club owners are hiring fat girls that they do so because they either
a.) don't care if they lose some customers or strippers
b.) it really doesn't hurt their bottom line
And I think most likely it's just what it seems to be. They are in it for the long haul, and strippers and customers are going to come and go anyway. They risk hiring a few fatties along with so much other variety because either way both customers and strippers are temporary assets, to be replaced by a new customers and strippers year after year.
Part of their business is getting dancers to give them money, just as it is to get customers to buy drinks.
Part of every employeers business is to woo and keep the best employees (and contractors) that they can. That's not unique to stripping. The relationship between an employeer and employee or contract is mutually beneficial. Again, nothing is unique about that to stripping.
When you say "give them money". That makes it sound like you are doing them a favor. I don't see any difference between stripping and hiring commissioned sales people other than in this case the product is yourself, but it's the same basic deal, as a sales person you need the business to make your commission and the business benefits from your sales. But nobody says the commissioned sales people are "giving the employeer money". It is in the end a job, something the commissioned sales people would probably rather not be doing. And there are generally more people wanting jobs then there are employeers. If you are really hot/good you may have more choices then someone else, but it's still work, and in the end the employeer has more invested in the relationship then you do.
But why hire fat girls if they are really bad for business?
While some girls are so hot I can imagine a club owner going out of their way to hire them, most are just average, and as far I know, seek out clubs looking for work, and want to be allowed to dance because without those club owners they wouldn't make any money. The clubs simply have a deal going where they owe the dancers nothing. They are allowed to rent some time on the club floor for a cut of whatever they can make selling dances, plus probably some fixed costs so that they won't waste the club owners time for nothing. But how many clubs now are really going out of their way to hire dancers? Last I read here and my experiences recently are that the clubs are full of girls with nothing to do because there aren't enough customers. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
Maybe these club owners that are hiring fat girls do so because they can't fill their minimum numbers with thin beautiful ones?
Jenny
11-02-2005, 02:38 PM
We all own our own labour. Even me, an employee.
Actually, no you don't. Unless I am very much mistaken about this as an employee, your employer owns your labour. The labour you have produced/are producing under your employment - not all future labour. I realize that you are not an indentured servant. The club does not own my labour - neither in the past nor present tense.
Because when it comes down to that there little difference between any employee and any contractor. As an employee I can quit whenever I want. I owe them notice, but I don't owe them much more. As a contractor it's not so different, the contract defines the rules of disengagement. At best you have a contract that allows you to give them no notice that you are quitting. Minimally good for you but it also means that the business will likely view you as even more expendable asset (like a bottle of liquor, it is an assumed temporary asset, expected to be replaced often).
Contract? Pshaw! Seriously - you and I are going to just have to disagree here. I think - and most dancers who give thought to it agree - there is a big difference between being independant (i.e. owning your own labour) and an employee (i.e. selling your labour). It is certainly different under the law - which is why employees and contractors have different rights and privileges. Being allowed to quit or being expendable is not at issue - everyone is always allowed to quit a job (because we don't indenture people) and at one club I (for example) could be near worthless to the establishment and at another I could be the only thing dragging the local toothless yokels out of their hovels every night but in both I (likely) still own my labour, and as such MY business is not synonomous (although it is related to) the club's. So when you start talking about a business regulating dancers, you do have to keep in mind that it is not a single entity - the club - that you are dealing with several "businesses" - telling me "Nah, it's all the same thing" sounds a little "kiddy and naive" to me.
Also - keep in mind, that unlike a bottle of liquor, I do not only provide a service for the club's patrons, I also directly pay the club. They do not pay for me. So you are not looking at a model in which you necessarily want to replace, but supplement.
There is nothing really significantly unique about a stripper contractor vs any other contractor or employee so I don't understand why the side tracking.
Just out of curiosity - what makes you say that? How do you know it's not different? What even makes you think it's not different? I'm really wondering where you got all this knowledge about stripper contractors. I mean if you really do have a legitimate wealth of knowledge, I'd love to know and I will be duly apologetic - but seeing as you were just defining them as employees, you'll forgive me (I'm sure) for being a teeny bit skeptical. And - I wasn't sidetracking. I was pointing out that the business of lapdancing is not necessarily business/labour owned by the club. This is a fact and it does colour the way clubs are run. And I've already mentioned like 5 million times the reason club owner "hire" fat girls - because the fat girls pay.
You get about as much say in what the business owners do as any of us do; maybe some, more so if we are long term valued employeers or contractors, but in the end it's the people who are putting up the big $s and taking on responsibility for the rest of the decisions that make a business happen that make the final decisions.
I get NO say in what the business owners do WITH THEIR BUSINESS. I do not get to tell them when to open or close, what to serve, to let their waitresses wear decent clothes and sneakers (I hate to see a waitress in high heels. Especially when there are stairs involved), how much to pay their employees, etc. I don't WANT say in that kind of crap (well, I wouldn't mind it for the waitress thing). All I want is say over how I run my small business - that is, selling dances. And - that I have. In complete finality. Both my club owner (or manager) and I are happy.
And I think most likely it's just what it seems to be. They are in it for the long haul, and strippers and customers are going to come and go anyway. They risk hiring a few fatties along with so much other variety because either way both customers and strippers are temporary assets, to be replaced by a new customers and strippers year after year.
I don't think they see it as risk. I think they see it as a legitimate part of their business. Fat girls have to pay the same fees as thin ones. They hire them because they make money. Or they think they make money - most club managers are not the cleverest pigs in the litter.
On the darker side, maybe some of these "fat" girls get in by doing sexual favors for these club owners, and the owners hire them for a short while with no intention of keeping them for any length of time. Possible? Or maybe the club owners have different aesthetics and they like heavier women? Or maybe they are intentionally trying to have some variety in their club? Ask the owners what is motivating them when they hire a fat girl because I suspect if they really thought it was signficantly hurting their bottom line they wouldn't do it.
Okay - again, keep in mind that the club owners don't hire the fat girls. Except in California. We are not hired, and almost everywhere we pay to work. This is a distinction -if you replace the word "hire" with "allow to work" a lot of it seems less strong because the club owners are more passive.
As for your projections:
probably not. And what a strange thing to assume. "Well, obviously the fat girls are giving the managers blowjobs." God. When you think this thread can't get more unpalatable, down it goes. Probably they think "this girl just paid money to work here (the amount depends on where you are, but it can range from nominal to very significant); she will probably eat and drink here (keep in mind that most dancers spend or have others spend more on beverages and food than most customers) and her money making potential is far, far outside my purview of concern. (because that is HER business, not HIS)
I suspect neither is all that hard to do, and there is always a new batch of strippers and dancers waiting to fill our shoes.
Um. Yeah. But... so what? I mean, I don't think you'd take that attitude if we were talking about bad customer service - I think then you would mention how valuable your potential business was, blah, blah, blah. Saying you're not the only customer in the world doesn't change the fact that they want you to buy a drink. And if I went in tonight and said "Oh, come on. You don't need my stage fee. Look at all the girls who are paying to work here already" I'm pretty sure they'd still want it.
Moneywise
11-02-2005, 03:42 PM
Wow Jenny. You're quite the busy body. ;D Over the past 6 months or so you have verbally masterbated Mr. P so much that he's now blind in one eye and deaf in the other. I guess as they say everything gets old with time and thus you've moved your masterbation over to X. :P:-\ Enjoy it while it lasts X. She's one helluva roller coaster. (or so it seems) No strings man. It's no risk sex. I'll just continue to watch from the corner like a voyeur in heat. Is it ok if I watch Jenny?
Jenny
11-02-2005, 04:10 PM
Okay. I would appreciate it if you would just stop VIOLATING me with your words.
Seriously - I can't stress enough how much this is not sexy. Not. At all. Like, I'm trying not to protest too much here - but really. Not. At all.
But as for watching - fine by me.
Even within our very liberal Blue moderation, this thread is getting way too personal. Its locked now for a time out. Im PM'ing JZ to see if we should clean it up for reopening or just leave it closed.
Sorry about that.
FBR
I'll accede to FBR's call. This thread is well past useful life, and I don't want to give the Euthanasia Society a reason to revoke my membership. - JZ