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CuriousSeeker
02-12-2008, 06:14 AM
it's called a "hooker hour"
This made me think of the fifty-minute "therapist hour."
Is this a BR thing, or is it happening in all the houses? The Theroux documentary made me think some houses are really strict about time for both sides' benefit.
Interestingly, there are enough field reports at the Nevada brothel sites with clients saying that they got extra time, so I'm not picking up that customers are feeling ripped off? I do see reviews where the complaint is that there wasn't the chemistry they thought might happen.
The mandatory stay at BR is one week.
Is that for your first time? Or for any return time?
You ARE allowed to walk (refuse)a client.
This is only done by a price walk, right? Or saying that a requested activity isn't something she does?
Also, I don't understand the rules in NV around quoting prices by phone or Internet. The Shady Lady has their prices posted, if I recall correctly, so the legality of quoting a price openly doesn't seem to be at issue. What if a woman at the BR already knew exactly how much she would charge someone for something: can she email the client back and tell him?
sun child
02-12-2008, 06:38 AM
It's illegal to talk about rates over the phone or Internet.
xdamage
02-12-2008, 07:12 AM
...I'm not agreeing with their policy of cutting short the time. The girls don't really give a fuck if they are ripping off a client. ...
Yea, you are just the messenger of the facts, and personally I think it's refreshing to read the truth of the matter (without judgment or sugar coating).
...
Their rationale is "no one has ever complained."
Who would take action? A group of irate johns?
True, although it may be impacting on the brothel's repeat business. Customers can always vote with their wallet by visiting less or not at all if they feel they have been ripped off. But yep, that's about the limit of it. The only other negative is that if customers feel the place is a rip off joint they will be somewhat more inclined to treat the women as ROBs; the women may not care about that, but it can result in an overall poorer (emotionally toxic?) working environment being around Johns who then feel justified in trying to also get more for less the same way the contractors are trying to do less for more. Of course it could be argued that Johns do that anyway, so no harm done.
miabella
02-12-2008, 09:44 AM
It's required that they keep a record of unethical business practice in the brothels? What would this encompass? I'm interested to know. Like I told you, it's not written down. And you can't compare the brothels to the services that escorts offer on the internet. Most internet escorts are reviewed (in detail) so the customers know what to expect; yeah, they might go to 70 minutes to increase the chances they'll get a good review. And yeah, any escort "in the wild" is not going to do a 45-minute session if she wants to get repeat business. It's obvious it could go in either direction. At brothels, though, there is a specific time limit, and after that time limit is up, it's time to upsell, meaning to sell another "party" of some sexual activity.
I'm not agreeing with their policy of cutting short the time. The girls don't really give a fuck if they are ripping off a client. However, I disagree with your analogy of a club where they make you overcount your dances and write down your overcounts. In that, it's not documented that the girls cut the time short.
Their rationale is "no one has ever complained."
Who would take action? A group of irate johns?
YOU stated that IT'S WRITTEN DOWN. you cannot say 'it's not written down' after repeatedly saying 'it's written down'. i mean, clearly you can, but you'll have to pick one and go with that one as your final answer.
also, i didn't post that escorts only did 'long hours', but that it was as likely they would do a 'short hour' as a 'long hour'. which is true.
sun child
02-12-2008, 10:25 AM
The time period that you will be in your room with the client is written down. The actual rip-off POLICY is not written down anywhere, it is just a verbal instruction from the madam. Hopefully that clears up my logic.
BunnyBabe
02-12-2008, 05:23 PM
i would like to know how bunnybabe justifies cheating the customers as WRITTEN brothel policy.
it is not written policy. I never said it was. its just known around the house.
BunnyBabe
02-12-2008, 05:33 PM
There alot of pro points maken about the time issue. Just like escorts and dancers its the same thing. I have never seen a upset customer here. every one has great reviews! look at the bunny ranch forum. you will see this as well as nvbrothels.net
Yeah dennis could be considered a pimp. but all the travel he does is for us! he goes on shows,radio, ect to promote US. This is not for fun. if you look at his calender on the bunny ranch web site you will see where he is at and what he is doing. It is all promo work.
Intill you have lived here and see what are life is like and what we get then dont sit here and say he is a greedy pimp.
Look at it like this.
We get free food most anything we want from the personal chef.
free personal trainer
housekeeping
doctors at call
drivers
tanning
hair
ciropracter
massage therp
how much would this cost in the real world? ALOT! we get all of this but the ciro and massage therp for free! we tip the people cause we apprsh. they work they do for us. but to my knowledge none of the other houses offer this at all. so we are really taken care of. and with pimps... you give them all your money. 50 50 is standard in brothels
lestat1
02-13-2008, 03:16 PM
So is the legal portion of the industry in the U.S. inherently unethtical, or is there simply no demand or supply for a no-haggle, ethical, fair experience. Basically is there a "Saturn" (one of GM's auto divisions whose MO/gimmick is to offer a fair price that is non-negotiable and strives for strong customer service) of the brothel business? Maybe it's not as profitable and noone wants to offer it (lack of supply). Maybe I'm the only one who wrote off satisfying my curiosity about the experience upon learning of "Hooker Hour" (lack of demand). Tell me it's not so simple as the cliched, negative stereotypes are true? :banghead:
CuriousSeeker
02-14-2008, 07:26 AM
Another question I wanted to know: if a condom breaks, is the worker taken off the floor?
Aubreyyy
02-14-2008, 03:56 PM
Chill the fuck out. The hooker hour is in effect outside of the brothels....
I worked in a SPA where an hour massage was 50 minutes. They factor in you getting undressed and redressed as the extra 10 minutes.
cameron_keys
02-14-2008, 04:07 PM
Chill the fuck out. The hooker hour is in effect outside of the brothels....
I worked in a SPA where an hour massage was 50 minutes. They factor in you getting undressed and redressed as the extra 10 minutes.
Yep...when I get a massage its usually a 50 or 55 minute hour for dressing and undressing.
A psychiatrist's "hour" is usually the same
AlexxaHex
02-14-2008, 04:26 PM
Yeah dennis could be considered a pimp. but all the travel he does is for us! he goes on shows,radio, ect to promote US. This is not for fun. if you look at his calender on the bunny ranch web site you will see where he is at and what he is doing. It is all promo work.
I'm sorry but I have to interject here because this just blows my mind. You think he travels and works for YOU? You think he is doing this to make YOU money? No, he's doing it for himself, like anyone else. He doesn't give a fuck about you at all. Don't forget that for a second.
flickad
02-14-2008, 09:21 PM
I'm sorry but I have to interject here because this just blows my mind. You think he travels and works for YOU? You think he is doing this to make YOU money? No, he's doing it for himself, like anyone else. He doesn't give a fuck about you at all. Don't forget that for a second.
My thoughts exactly.
sun child
02-14-2008, 11:11 PM
Yup, there will always be another ho. He doesn't give a fuck.
jester214
02-15-2008, 12:04 AM
Why can't he both care about the women who work for him and still appreciate the money he makes?? But then again I guess in your eyes a man can't appreciate a female employee... I guess no SC owner ever cared about the dancers... Do you know the guy, or are you just making a judgement based on... what?
What shit.
flickad
02-15-2008, 03:04 AM
Why can't he both care about the women who work for him and still appreciate the money he makes?? But then again I guess in your eyes a man can't appreciate a female employee... I guess no SC owner ever cared about the dancers... Do you know the guy, or are you just making a judgement based on... what?
What shit.
Perhaps he does care to some or other degree about the women who work for him, but they're sure as hell not the people foremost in his mind when he promotes the place. And yes, the same logic applies to any business, whether or not it involves the sex industry or even men employing women, for that matter. Profits, not employee welfare, are always paramount. If the needs of workers are considered at all, it's in the secondary sense.
This assessment is not based on the man himself but on how businesses are invariably run (and the motivations for doing so) in the capitalist system. It's just how it is. To be idealistic about this is to delude oneself.
Jenny
02-15-2008, 07:34 AM
Why can't he both care about the women who work for him and still appreciate the money he makes?? But then again I guess in your eyes a man can't appreciate a female employee... I guess no SC owner ever cared about the dancers... Do you know the guy, or are you just making a judgement based on... what?
What shit.Because he's making use of an unfair law to, more or less, extort money from the women he supposedly cares about? Could that maybe, possibly, have something to do with it?
Lapaholic
02-15-2008, 07:58 AM
Jenny, I found this info on Nevada Brothels (http://www.sexwork.com/legal/NevPimpHouses.html) which of course supports you argument. U were of course right and I was wrong..
CuriousSeeker
02-15-2008, 09:32 AM
I went to the link and saw a few things:
If they decide to refuse a customer, management must be provided with what it deems an acceptable reason. Some "customers" should certainly be avoided at all costs. They might be rude, rough, or drunk, want too much for their money, have an attitude problem, or just simply be jerks. I don't think anyone should have to provide sexual services to men like that. Yet, many of the brothels put the burden of proof on the prostitute. She must justify her right to refuse business, even though she loses money herself by doing so.
I thought the policy at BR, BR2, the WH (WH documentary (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v400268AyPHM4Nm)), and the Mustang (across from the WH) allowed women to price walk. An acquaintance told me there are a few guys she just refused to see, and that was okay.
The brothels charge additional for room and board and several of them have the prostitutes supplement the house employees income by giving them required tips.
In the houses I mentioned above, the room and board ranges from $19-40 from what I understand, though it is waived, I believe, if you hit a certain earning figure that day.
I also saw remarks about the implications for a "known prostitute." In Storey county, the license merely says "entertainer," and from what I understand, calls to the sheriff's office will not disclose more than that?
CuriousSeeker
02-15-2008, 09:41 AM
Another question: if you go one minute into this documentary (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v360829swDG8mNk), a worker at the BR claims to make $40K in 3 weeks. True, possible? (Shelly Dushell claims $22K (http://www.bunnyranch.com/news/Cosby_Goes_Inside/) in her first two weeks).
Additionally, she claims a laptop computer, clothing worth $2K, camera, and cell phone as gifts from clients: didn't she have to pay to the house half the value of all that?
It's almost funny how this thread went from asking questions about working at the bunny ranch to reasons why Dennis is a pimp and how working in a legal brothel is terrible place. ::) It's just derailed sooo much. >:(
If you are interested in being a sex worker you have options. Legal vs Illegal. Safe vs Safer vs Safest. For the prostitution angle most of them aren't very safe. I think one of the safest options, and only 100% legal one, is working in a legal brothel. Strippers have the security of working in a strip club so why should an escort/prostitute have to go solo?
The house takes a percentage of your earnings, but the house has security. A hotel room, a customer's home or in your own home, nowhere near as secure. No panic buttons, no one within screaming distance, no one who saw the guy, no record that he was even where you say he was. Hell not even anyone who 'cares' what would happen to a 'hooker'. Because that is how you will be looked at if you are working on your own, just another hooker. If you are in a brothel that is a legal establishment and you have rights. When you move outside of the law you won't have the the law on your side.
When it comes down to it the only people who know what really happens in brothels are the people working in them. So non brothel workers saying how it works is like a customer saying how a strip club works. And everyone knows how a customer thinks a strip club works, isn't how a strip club works.
Just my 2 cents. :D
NickT
02-15-2008, 12:55 PM
^^^^
I think people understand that, they're just saying there should be another safe option: decriminalization of prostitution. This would allow independent prostitutes to advertise and do business in a legal manner.
I agree that a brothel can be the safest option, but that doesn't mean that all other options are extremely dangerous. There are examples all over the world of independent prostitutes doing just fine. The situation we have today in America is that the independent prostitute has to take more risks because it's illegal. The customers may try to get away with more because she's less likely to try to report any trouble. If it was legal, the prostitute could more easily press charges if she got ripped off or whatever.
If there were legal, independent prostitutes then the brothels would have to compete to get them to work there. They would have to make them more attractive than working on their own. As it is now, they're the only legal way. A woman can work there or not work all (legally, anyway).
xdamage
02-16-2008, 01:46 AM
I'm sorry but I have to interject here because this just blows my mind. You think he travels and works for YOU? You think he is doing this to make YOU money? No, he's doing it for himself, like anyone else. He doesn't give a fuck about you at all. Don't forget that for a second.
Also my very same thought.
yoda57us
02-16-2008, 05:38 AM
I watch the HBO show and it is sometimes entertaining. As a guy who has seen both agency and Indie escorts for about 20 years I have to say that it is not representative of the way the vast majority of the industry works.
Though I've never been to one I don't have much use for the entire concept of paying more (two or three times more) for a lady just because it is legal in that particular part of the country. Any woman with half a brain can work as an escort and avoid legal problems simply by being discreet and smart about how she conducts herself and screens her clients.
I'm hesitant to toss around the word "pimp" as a descriptive for any person that runs a brothel or an agency but in some cases the shoe definitely fits. In it's best model (not the BR) and agency handles advertising, booking, screening and logistics for a lady who chooses to pay them a fee for their services rather than do all of the leg work herself. There are many agencies where this is the business model. Some are run by women, some by men.
The "taking care of my girls" business model that exists at the BR is a bit over the top for me but it exists because there are girls who allow it to exist. You don't have to give up half or more of what you make, line up at a cattle call, be expected to screw an agency owner or even be in the same building with a dozen other girls all clawing for the same customer in order to make a very good and safe living as an escort. There are better ways to do it.
AudreyLeigh
02-16-2008, 10:50 AM
When I was supposed to go work at BR she said its a 2 week stay. This was about 3 years ago. Maybe its changed.
They get 50% of all monies received. They get 50% of the value of all gifts received OR they get the gifts and YOU get 50% of the cash value of the gift.
CuriousSeeker
02-16-2008, 12:06 PM
^AudreyLeigh, thanks for the info.
bebewood
02-20-2008, 03:39 AM
I am so disgusted that this is owned by a man, a really crude nasty one at that. Wtf the girls have to fuck and put up with assholes all day and he gets paid the same they do,times 10, for practically doing nothing? disgusting. Why doesn't someone open a brothel in the same area, one that takes less money from the girls. Say the new brothel only takes 20 percent, that means the girls can charge less and all of the bunny ranch's business would be lost to the new place
jester214
02-20-2008, 12:03 PM
I am so disgusted that this is owned by a man, a really crude nasty one at that. Wtf the girls have to fuck and put up with assholes all day and he gets paid the same they do,times 10, for practically doing nothing? disgusting. Why doesn't someone open a brothel in the same area, one that takes less money from the girls. Say the new brothel only takes 20 percent, that means the girls can charge less and all of the bunny ranch's business would be lost to the new place
So only women should be able to own a brothel?? Well ok, you get out there start one up, and drastically undercut what this guys takes in... We'll see how well that works out..
^^If it could be done, someone would have done it...
jester214
02-20-2008, 12:04 PM
Because he's making use of an unfair law to, more or less, extort money from the women he supposedly cares about? Could that maybe, possibly, have something to do with it?
What is the law?
Jenny
02-20-2008, 12:20 PM
What is the law?
That in order to work, you have to work in a licensed brothel with a variety of local requirements attached to it; thus taking a negligible service that would not likely survive on the free market and reformatting it into something for which he can demand a full half of their earnings?
"If it could be done" - what are you talking about? Why would anyone do it? Altruism? When this handy law is in place essentially trapping your market?
bebewood
02-20-2008, 12:23 PM
Also, Dennis sleeps with the girls? Why isn't this illegal?! To have to sleep with the boss to stay in a job? How horrible!
Lysondra
02-20-2008, 05:37 PM
Yes it is^ I doubt finding that someone had that would really stop them from shooting.
roseredhead
02-20-2008, 08:03 PM
I'm not trying to be a bitch here, but with all of these statistics being thrown around...
Can someone provide concrete evidence of these numbers?
As far as the STDs remark goes, in 1995 Alexa Albert (author of Brothel: The Mustang Ranch and Its Women) did a study on use of condoms in work life and private life of legal prostitutes and she and her colleagues found that these women were more likely to get any STD from their lover than their clients. (Only the abstract is available online, but you can view it .)
All sexual acts in the brothels require condoms - it's absolutely nonnegotiable. All of the ladies (myself included) even used gloves when hand jobs were given. The use of condoms is for the prostitute's safety, not the client's, since it's known that she's clean from her testing. No lady is allowed to work the floor until she passes said testing...hell, she's not even allowed to have her license if she doesn't pass.
I can't say that prostitutes don't have some form of STD. I can't know that. But I do know that their instances of STDs don't necessarily come from their line of work. Lifestyle accounts for so many of the factors that could lead to any woman getting a venerial disease.
The fact of the matter is, even if a prostitute has HPV, she isn't spreading it so long as she's following the state structured guidelines for safe sex. If a client has HPV, he won't spread it to the lady as long as she follows those same guidelines.
Idiocy and accidents can and will happen though, so it's not an impossibility...more of an improbability.
Woo. Okay. I'm going to stop rambling now, but I really am interested in any studies on STDs that anyone can link me to!
Jenny
02-20-2008, 08:11 PM
The use of condoms is for the prostitute's safety, not the client's, since it's known that she's clean from her testing. No lady is allowed to work the floor until she passes said testing...hell, she's not even allowed to have her license if she doesn't pass.
If that is true, then why does the law penalize the lady not the client if they are not used?
jester214
02-20-2008, 08:57 PM
That in order to work, you have to work in a licensed brothel with a variety of local requirements attached to it; thus taking a negligible service that would not likely survive on the free market and reformatting it into something for which he can demand a full half of their earnings?
"If it could be done" - what are you talking about? Why would anyone do it? Altruism? When this handy law is in place essentially trapping your market?
What?????? You could carely that line of thinking to anything if you wanted to... I thought you meant a specific law that allows him to take advantage of the workers, not the law that allows them to work...
ridiculous
Jenny
02-20-2008, 09:02 PM
What?????? You could carely that line of thinking to anything if you wanted to... I thought you meant a specific law that allows him to take advantage of the workers, not the law that allows them to work...
ridiculous
What are you talking about? The law is what prevent them from working in the first place. The laws that regulate how they work are the laws that allow them to take advantage of the workers. Ridiculous indeed.
Jenny
02-20-2008, 09:32 PM
I don't think you are making it up; but HPV is a lifelong virus, isn't it? And surely they wouldn't stop shooting over that - I mean practically everyone in the world has it already.
jester214
02-20-2008, 09:32 PM
What are you talking about? The law is what prevent them from working in the first place. The laws that regulate how they work are the laws that allow them to take advantage of the workers. Ridiculous indeed.
Because without the law they wouldn't be able to work at all, legally... I could turn you're argument into anything, guns, liquor, tobacco, gambling...
This guy Dennis is giving them the only legal option to practice their profession, so he is taking advantage of them??? Is a strip club owner taking advantage of his employees by having the strip club??
Jenny
02-20-2008, 09:35 PM
No. A strip club owner actually brings something to the table other than "making them legal" by, you know, running a bar and everything. I think you have a confused idea of how law functions. Prostitution is not illegal just naturally. Laws are passed that MAKE it illegal; then other laws are passed making it legal in very narrow circumstances that allow brothel owners to exploit them.
jester214
02-20-2008, 09:56 PM
No. A strip club owner actually brings something to the table other than "making them legal" by, you know, running a bar and everything. I think you have a confused idea of how law functions. Prostitution is not illegal just naturally. Laws are passed that MAKE it illegal; then other laws are passed making it legal in very narrow circumstances that allow brothel owners to exploit them.
Oh he doesn't do anything else for them? Just gives them a bed and says "go at it" then takes half?? Right, give me a break..
The same can be said for Gambling, and alcohol... That's the way it is, does that mean he doesn't care about them?
flickad
02-20-2008, 10:05 PM
Oh he doesn't do anything else for them? Just gives them a bed and says "go at it" then takes half?? Right, give me a break..
The same can be said for Gambling, and alcohol... That's the way it is, does that mean he doesn't care about them?
Chances are that as the owner of a BUSINESS of which the purpose is to make a profit, not be a workers charity foundation, damn right it's likely he cares very little about them.
Jenny
02-20-2008, 10:07 PM
Oh he doesn't do anything else for them? Just gives them a bed and says "go at it" then takes half?? Right, give me a break..
The same can be said for Gambling, and alcohol... That's the way it is, does that mean he doesn't care about them?
It means that he is using an unfair law to exploit a situation to garner a percentage of earnings that no free market anywhere would support. That is exploitative. Yes, in my book that equals "not caring about them." I don't know the laws around gambling, and the laws around liquor - well, around here it is a government monopoly and government unions are pretty strong. They have a pretty good workplace. They are CERTAINLY not paying half their wages for the privilege of working for the LCBO.
Yekhefah
02-20-2008, 10:10 PM
Am I the only one disturbed by the requirement that you have to give him free sex in addition to half the pay? He doesn't keep all of his half; the government takes quite a bit of it. You could make the argument (though it wouldn't stand up to much) that he is within his moral rights as the business owner to take some of the women's money to cover his overhead and turn profit for himself. But you lose me at the sex requirement. I'm sorry, but if you have to fuck Dennis to work at the ranch, then that makes Dennis a pathetic pimp and I really don't understand how that's legal.
And I don't understand why that requirement doesn't seem to bother jester.
jester214
02-20-2008, 10:12 PM
So under your logic, any brother owner is exploitive, not just him? If that's what you're saying then fine, I still find it ridiculous, but I'll leave your opinion alone.
Jenny
02-20-2008, 10:13 PM
A) yes. B) In order to have power over my opinion you would have to come up with something way more cogent and persuasive than what you have exhibited thus far.
Yekhefah - that is obviously sexual harassment. I mean, I didn't bother with it because - well, it is OBVIOUSLY sexual harassment.
jester214
02-20-2008, 10:15 PM
Am I the only one disturbed by the requirement that you have to give him free sex in addition to half the pay? He doesn't keep all of his half; the government takes quite a bit of it. You could make the argument (though it wouldn't stand up to much) that he is within his moral rights as the business owner to take some of the women's money to cover his overhead and turn profit for himself. But you lose me at the sex requirement. I'm sorry, but if you have to fuck Dennis to work at the ranch, then that makes Dennis a pathetic pimp and I really don't understand how that's legal.
And I don't understand why that requirement doesn't seem to bother jester.
Well, maybe I missed it, I didn't read through 20 pages of posts... My original statement was in response to someone saything that all he cared about was the money and all the stuff he did (promotion, traveling, etc.) was about him and that he didn't care for them at all. I found that to be an unfair attack, since it could be carried over to any SC owner... I didn't see anything about him forcing sex on employees...
jester214
02-20-2008, 10:17 PM
A) yes. B) In order to have power over my opinion you would have to come up with something way more cogent and persuasive than what you have exhibited thus far.
Yekhefah - that is obviously sexual harassment. I mean, I didn't bother with it because - well, it is OBVIOUSLY sexual harassment.
God do you have to take everything as offense... I meant I wouldn't argue with you about your personal opinion of brothel owners, as that was never my intention...
Jenny
02-20-2008, 10:23 PM
God do you have to take everything as offense... I meant I wouldn't argue with you about your personal opinion of brothel owners, as that was never my intention...No. Only when you are offensive. Why? Do YOU have to take everything as offence?
jester214
02-20-2008, 10:27 PM
No. Only when you are offensive. Why? Do YOU have to take everything as offence?
What have I taken as offensive? Except you replying with a little snippy "A. B." comment that implied I was somehow trying to suggest I could bend your opinion...
Jenny
02-20-2008, 10:27 PM
Dude I was kidding. Learn to laugh at yourself.