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All Good Things
10-08-2005, 09:09 PM
Amadeus, the point of the car saleswoman story, as I'm sure you know, was to suggest that dancers are not at work to avail themselves of your scintillating wit and engaging personality, but may in fact be trying to sell you a dance the entire time they are talking to you. In their mind, they are in the business of persuading, while you, a non-buyer, are in the business of resisting. They talk to you, true, but not because they value the interaction with you over the money they "could be making." They are talking to you with the express intention of enticing you to take a different action.

Aside from this obvious disconnect, there also seems to be an almost charming blindness to the subtle manipulations, seductions, enticements and deception that undermine the validity of your assumed clean transactional analysis on its face. As noted elsewhere in this forum, a strip club is a Special Ethical Arena.

I think it's more the rule than the exception that regular posters in this forum have expanded relationships with dancers. I certainly qualify for that on about three different levels. ;) But as a customer -- and I always try to be a very, very good one -- I assure you that I would never dream for a second, not for one scintilla of a nanosecond, of going into a club without the intention of spending a great deal of money on the dancers. Especially those who are also my friends. It's just one of those great laws of nature. ;)

Jenny
10-08-2005, 09:34 PM
(1) I never buy private dances. (I have just become the single most hated person on here!) I know you've read my "value for value" posts, so I'll just say that according to my value system $20-$30 for three minutes of a private dance is patently absurd for me.

Regarding the no private dances point - I wonder if I should even say this, this is going to sound sooooo egotistical and I don't mean it to be but - seriously though, getting to see a naked girl isn't that hard.

Hmmm. Well I don't, and I'm sure nobody else hates you for not getting dances, and yes you do sound egotistical. However, more to the point one must wonder why you spend all this time in strip clubs if naked women aren't the draw. I mean if women are just dying to get naked and move around on you in regular bars I wonder that you are not spending more time there - and we know perfectly well that only so much time and chat is justified by research. I don't think a lack of ability is really what is bringing in ... well, at least some of our regular posters. It's simply the service - of being agreeable, accomodating, encouraging, charming, etc. Which leads us into another of your questions...


Do you all think I'm lying when I say that I actually have OTC relationships with dancers that I meet at the club? Noo... not exactly. But I do think that you clearly attach some cachet to dating/being friends with dancers. And as such I rather expect that you really exaggerate these connections and moments. This could be me - because I'm one of those dancers that likes customers, but I also like them to be good customers. I don't think that musicians who talk about wanting to open a club, who come in with the specific intention of not being customers, and will happily waste two hours of my time under the assumption that their leisure time is somehow worth the same as my earning time are cool - really, after that being good looking or charming only makes you more annoying. So it could viably be that I am having a hard time relating to this. But I think there is also something in the defensiveness of your posts, your hard insistence and your evident pride that dancers eat breakfast with you that is communicating something that is not "I have friends who are dancers" and more "I'm so cool that DANCERS like me".

MinahSky
10-08-2005, 10:57 PM
Amadeus, you obviously have great relationships with the women in your life if you dont' get the point of private dances.

I'm not talking for all men, but guys your age (and others)tend to like going to the club and get dances with a beautiful lady without any drama. I don't ask where you've been, what you're doing, who you're with. I simply chat you up, ask how your day's been, listen you talk about whatever you'd like, then give you some hot dances and send you home happy. You're usually not married at 25 and don't need anyone acting like your wife.

Not to be mean, but I wouldn't brag about eating breakfast with dancers to anyone. Even if you're f*cking ALL of them, you're not going to score any points with the people that you're bothering to tell this information to. And that won't last long anyway. If you're sharing this info with them, they must already be of the mindset that we will go out to breakfast with anyone.

dlabtot
10-09-2005, 01:18 AM
I wonder just how many times a customer has announced on stripperweb that he has several OTC dancer friends...

TigersMilk
10-09-2005, 03:31 PM
Wow, this thread is long now..totally slipping off topic but hey its gets heated around here sometimes...latty da.

Its hard because several times a night a girl gets asked to "have a drink/lunch/dinner" by a customer and its overwhelming at times. Im busy anyways and have much more on the plate and 3 8hr shifts per week...so spending any time with a customer OTC is non an option based on my limited schedule alone. Guys dont consider how many times you are solicted for your time OTC (wheter it be sex or no sex involved).

If I were to go on every date, dinner, lunch, coffee, phone call with a customer I would have no time for anything else in my life.

Honestly now, why in the hell would I go out with a customer OTC? For...companionship? I have friends and a cat for that. Because Im hungry? I have food in my fridge and the money you just gave me to buy food. To just have fun? Again, I have friends for that and me. To get to know another great guy? Also, friends fill that void.
There is abosulty NO reason for a girl to really go out with a custy unless something is in it for her. Ok, maybe to get connections going on maybe.

I like you ...you like me too....dont try to have something for more than its worth. This is our ITC relationship take it or leave it.

laplover69
10-09-2005, 03:46 PM
If I am really into a dancer and feel that there is potential OTC, I tell her that she means far more to me than a "paid grope" and that I would prefer to spend quality time and money on her in another setting. If there are MUTUAL feelings of sincerity then it's possible to have a "normal"? OTC relationship. The confounding issue with this is that most of my OTC relationships/friendships have been platonic or semi-platonic in nature.

Rick1
10-10-2005, 09:41 AM
Jenny,

Quote:
She's lucky I am the nice guy she knows I am. If she would have guessed wrong about me, I knew where she lived (she told me she had moved, and I could easily have found her anyway), I could have taken her prized English Bull dog or poisoned it. If I was a real nut case, I also had her mom's address


Ugh. You're not perfect anymore. This even occurs to you over a $44.00 flower bill? That is not normal. You seriously think a girl strung you along for 4 months for $44?

I wrote this at work on Sat. and left at noon (I own my own business). All weekend I worried that this would be taken wrongly.

My first point was directed too Yekhefah about her being correct in protecting her personal information.

Secondly, my main point was what if she really didn't know me? To hurt me to this level still does not make any sense. There is more too this, I just didn't want to make the story too long. The additional would only make her look worse. If you question this I could post from the letters she has written me, but would not as they were written to me in trust. I also have no reason to lie.

I know she was sencere when we started out or she would never have trusted me with her address (I cherish her for this).

This was probably the coldest thing I've ever had happen too me.

I apologize to each and everyone here for my discription of this situtation, I was wrong.

Rick

Rick1
10-10-2005, 10:13 AM
So I'm sitting in my office feeling horrible about this and thinking, what was I really trying to say that came out so badly.

I guess I was trying to say "If you treat someone badly, they might retaliate". I think I should have just left all this out, you all don't need a moral lesson from me on how to treat others.

Sorry again,

Rick

Casual Observer
10-10-2005, 11:33 AM
I'm not talking for all men, but guys your age (and others)tend to like going to the club and get dances with a beautiful lady without any drama. I don't ask where you've been, what you're doing, who you're with. I simply chat you up, ask how your day's been, listen you talk about whatever you'd like, then give you some hot dances and send you home happy.

Agreed. I'm not 25 anymore, and setting aside for a moment the fact that I'm a fat, balding, toothlessly slobbering PL, the uncomplicated pleasure of beautiful women accompanying one in an SC is about the lack of drama, involvement and relational overhead that one experiences all too frequently with civilian women. OTC activity is another issue altogether, one that's all about what you as an individual bring to the table and how the dancer responds accordingly, based on her own interests and perceptions.

Bragging about how ostensibly easy it is to see women naked without having to pay for it begs the question--why the hell are you in an SC to begin with, and why are you all caught up in the drama that you yourself created with your intransigent and juvenile "Hot chicks naked on my lap for three minutes aren't worth $20," attitude? Are you boasting about how you get more pussy than a kitty litter box or inadvertently revealing, as JZ noted, your comparatively lower socio-economic status that places an inordinate value on $20 in a quasi-social situation?

Methinks doth protest way too fucking much.

amadeus_x
10-12-2005, 05:45 PM
Casual Observer - I'm not sure if your above post is directed at me. If it is, my response follows:

My socio-economic status is fine. For a 25 year old, it is exceptional. I wouldn't spend $20 or $1 for that matter on something that I didn't value, no matter how much money I had. I don't enjoy polka music. I wouldn't drop $20 on a polka CD. I don't enjoy private dances. I wouldn't drop $20 on a private dance. I find it very telling that you would assume I'm poor because I spend according to my values. In my experience, it is the poor who spend most liberally on things that are not of great value to them. In my experience, the rich tend to spend more proportionately to the value they receive. (I am not speaking, in regards to that last point, about wealthy individuals who can afford to spend however much they wish on anything at all due to the fact that it would be next to impossible for them to ever spend all of their money regardless of what they bought.)

I never said that "I get more pussy that a kitty in a litter box". I simply said that getting women isn't all too hard, especially when you're 25. More specifically however, I said "seeing naked women". Any moderately attractive, presentable and friendly guy should be able to get to see some woman naked without a whole lot of effort. I didn't say that she would be beautiful, brilliant or marriage material, I simply said naked and woman. If nudity is the sole criteria for going to a SC, one meeting the aforementioned description should be able to get the same (and extras for that matter) at a much reduced cost

I go to strip clubs for several reasons: (1) to hang out with my friends (both the friends that happen to be coming in with me and the friends that happen to be dancing) (2) I like going out without the inherent hassles of bars (large crowds, fights, etc.) and (3) because I am planning on opening a strip club and find it helpful to observe the operations of other clubs.

amadeus_x
10-13-2005, 02:10 PM
By the way, I certainly do not mean to imply that 25 is some sort of magic age. I merely speak from my own experience. For all I know, meeting women is easier at 40, or 55, etc. As a matter of fact, I hope very much that it is!

Additionally, none of what I said is meant to be any reflection of quality (of course, there are many women, and men for that matter, that nobody cares to see unrobed, but that is another topic). Regardless of age, intellect demands it's equal. As does outlook on life. I am sure that most of the men on this forum could go out to a bar and pick up a girl. I certainly hope that nobody on here views that as being the end of the story however (though I'm sure that some do). "Picking up" a girl, in my experience, is among the most unsatisfying tasks imaginable. There is simply no reward in hooking up with some bedroom-eyed girl with an IQ barely above room temperature. Unfortunately, the "bar experience" leaves room for little else. As far as meaningful interaction is concerned, I wish to earn a woman's admiration. I wish her to earn mine.

One of my favorite things about strip clubs is the opportunity to actually sit down and talk to women. If the women aren't genuinely interested in the conversation, they are of course always welcome to say "I've gotta go make some money." I am NOT saying by any stretch that I go to SCs with the sole purpose of meeting women. That would be patently absurd. I consider it merely a secondary benefit (see earlier posts).
That being said, I'm sure everybody here has noticed that there are a few borderline brilliant dancers who post here. Sometimes I am lucky enough to meet similar ones at clubs. I'm sure that those dancers have said that there are a few borderline brilliant customers that they have met at clubs. With intelligence being such a rare commidity these days (perhaps it always has been), sometimes unusual circumstances (meeting at a club) must be put aside in favor of a scarce reward (meaningful interaction). If a certain dancer has more than enough meaningful interaction in her or his life, then that dancer would be on solid ground to forego any attempt at such with a customer. If a given dancer has a great need for affirmation of the things that she or he holds most dear in life, then dancer / customer relationship be damned.

skanklover
10-13-2005, 05:50 PM
I think that it is important to remember that everyone has different experiences in life and the strip club is no different. I never judge a book by its cover and give everyone the benifit of doubt. Of course girls can like guys and vice versa, even in a customer/server relationship. I love to flirt and a strip club is an acceptable place to do that. If I am a gentleman and am respectful then I am always confident that I will find someone to share a drink with and have some laughs. I like the game that the girls play, thats why I'm there. I don't like to be disrespected or treated badly but hey thats life, it happens. People get so caught up in trying to know what other people think rather than just enjoying things for what they are. In a club know that you are the reason the girls are there...they have a job and its not an easy one. So enjoy the superficial contact the girls provide. They can be your friends, but like friends at the office it doesn't mean sex just because they dance naked. Casual flirtation...love it for what it is...and remember like the Tubes said, DONT FALL IN LOVE.

yoda57us
10-14-2005, 08:58 AM
Well said Skanklover....Learn to enjoy the moment for what it is and not hurt our brains trying to fanagle it into something that it isn't.


"She'll give you everything in this world...but it will cost you a dollar first".

Wow, to think how naive I was when that song came out. I had no idea it was about dancers and strip clubs.

afxturnip
10-14-2005, 09:12 AM
Arrgh that Tubes song....

It's both Ironic and maddening that it's the damn feature song which plays while the dancers go around trying to sell the Rick's gewgaws. Eh, I twitch involuntarily when I hear that song now outside the club.

-afx