View Full Version : Arkansas Woman Gives Birth To 16th Child...
phonehome
10-16-2005, 12:01 PM
When i first heard of this I assumed that the typical redneck poor white trash situation was going to be true here, tha teh this woman started popping out kids when she was somewhere around 13 or so but as her oldest kid is 17 and she is 39 that would say it was 22 a late start by some standards, but that also means that almost all her adult life this woman has been pregnant or about to be pregnant. She has had two sets of twins, that means she has been pregnant 14 times, at nine months per that is 131 months or 1 month short of 11 years, if some how she managed to keep from getting pregnant for even four months after each delivery that would account for another 56 months or over 4 1/2 years so we have accounted for over 16 years, you count back from 39 and you are at less than 23.
You also do wonder about what is going on down there after popping out a kid every other year, unless she is married to John Holmes brother, there can;t be enough kegels to keep her from being the Holland tunnel.
doc-catfish
10-16-2005, 12:15 PM
How can 2 parents give that many kids the individual time and attention a child needs to grow up healthy? I just don't see it.
And to compare this with what was common decades ago, well, just isn't relevant. We've not only advanced past that, but as a society learned that having too many children can be detrimental to the health of the whole family.
Then why is it that so many people who were raised in these uber-large families turned out perfectly fine? If anything, I think the modern day mom-dad-two kids-family dog nuclear family model we've romanticized in popular culture is actually a digression from the extended family model that preceded it.
About the only point I would give you here is that back in the olden days, there was usually a large extended family living nearby that could attend to the needs of the kids when Mom and Dad could not. Also with that many kids, usually the older children help attend to the care of their younger siblings. If mom died in childbirth, or dad got sucked into an piece of industrial machinery, aunts and uncles usually were there to step in their place.
Bridgette
10-16-2005, 01:27 PM
So you're telling me that what a woman decides to do with her body affects you and therefore is your business? Are you willing to waltz over to an abortion thread to repeat that?
NO. It affects the KIDS she's continuing to have. If you'd not snipped that line off from the rest of the paragraph it was explained. When she's having that many kids it's not just what she's doing with her body. It's what she's adding/taking away from her other kids' lives - namely, increased competition for mom's time and the very strong potential for her to be unable to give them what they need. geez Don't try to make it something it's not.
And Mast, since when is it healthy/fair for the older siblings to have to pick up mom/dad's slack??? We've read from other posters in this thread who had to deal with that and it's not good. I was also the oldest who had to act like a surrogate parent and it was NOT good for me either. Furthermore, a child isn't equipped to take care of another child properly or replace the attention/discipline of the parents, and may very likely come to resent the younger kids for making life difficult and therefore may mistreat/neglect them. Kids shouldn't be expected to take up parental duties because parents are too busy pumping out more kids. That's extremely selfish on the parents' part and unfair to the kids. Children need to be allowed to be kids and should be raised by PARENTS who have the time to do so.
FL Dancer
10-16-2005, 01:54 PM
I am so with you on this one Bridgette. I think what they are doing is very unhealthy for all involved.
charlygirl
10-17-2005, 02:33 AM
[QUOTE=Mastridonicus]First off
who'd tap that 16 times?!
OMG OMG. That is SOOOO funny lol!;D (and so cruel).
blondhottie
10-17-2005, 05:08 PM
They have their own website here:
www.jimbob.info
Read the FAQ's on there-it says what their schedule is like on a typical day. I feel sorry for those kids too-there's no way 2 parents could possibly give 16 children the attention they deserve. And all their names start with J-my God, how do they keep all their names straight? Their daily routine sounds so structured too-it sounds like those kids never get to just kick back, relax, and just enjoy being a kid.
I also think it's sexist how the girls are the only ones who prepare meals, even though they have brothers who are older.
former_LV_dancer
10-17-2005, 05:42 PM
This is a sideshow, not a family. Sad. Just looked at the website, oh geez....this is a prime example of religion gone bad. Total wingnuts, I hope those kids can survive their childhood and not be totally crazy as adults. Whether the parents have the money to fully support the family or not is not the issue, their mental health is the question in my opinion. I can't even begin to imagine how fucked up I'd be if I was raised in that situation. It's too wierd any way I try and rationalize it.
SthnrnGrl77
10-17-2005, 05:44 PM
blah, i'm not into all of that. she can't possibly show 16 kids attention and guidance, who knows maybe she can.
FL Dancer
10-17-2005, 05:55 PM
The part of the website I like best is :
"Welcome to the Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar Family website!
Our prayer is that all who view this site will realize that we are ordinary people"
Ordinary, huh ? They are deluded.
Maybe this is unfair but I have to wonder about incest and child brides and forced marriages in these childrens future.
Most of the other super religious, extreemly large families I have known about are part of that one cult. You know they one I'm talking about .... there are alot of those families in Utah.
Rhiannon
10-17-2005, 06:06 PM
Ha.. Ordinary, My blindingly white ass.
After reading their FAQs, I have to agree that it seems a little cultish to me. Quite scary.
FL Dancer
10-17-2005, 06:35 PM
I sure hope someone outside their church is keeping an eye on these kids. The more I learn about these people :-\ well let's just say I am really starting to be VERY concerned for their well being
venusofwillendorf
10-17-2005, 06:47 PM
help from the state? i do not pay taxes on my insanely crappy $2.38 an hour waitressing job to fund the spawn of religious zealots. i do it so they can fix the streets. there are still potholes all over the streets, however- maybe we have a couple of these "families" in my town.
as for neglect of the children- it's simply not possible that it's not happening. there's a reason we don't encourage 13 year olds to reproduce- they're not capable of being good parents, and they shouldn't be required to parent their siblings. people like this amaze me. why on earth don't they adopt?
janx34
10-17-2005, 08:40 PM
mmmm....i've been very close to this situation.
The thing is, the kids are sheltered in their own world that their parents have created for them. And the kids are happy and fine with that. Trust me. This is all they know in life and they are by all means perfectly happy.
The problem sets in for them when they are old enough to go out into the real world by themselves. Then reality hits home and all of a sudden they have no idea where they are at and what to do. Like me, they might become bitter for being so sheltered and always being told to just BELIEVE and TRUST IN GOD....blah blah blah......but that doesn't help you in the real world. All of a sudden you're back at preschool level as an adult and you're struggleing to catch up with everyone else who wasn't sheltered
So if these kids stay close to home and stay naive about the world, then they will grow up and live their lives and die happy. If they stray from their sheltered world and start to ask questions they will be very depressed and maybe not be able to cope
charlygirl
10-17-2005, 10:55 PM
Oh COME ON people. Just because your family consisted of many siblings and it didnt go well for you how can you make the same judgement on everyone who decides to go on and have more than 'whatever amount you think is right 'kids?
WHat business is it of yours if your not paying for them? Im sure there many other families in this country who have had 12,13,14,15 kids who are not in the media who you wouldnt give two hoots about.
Give these people a break. If their church supports them and is against abortion, and in doing so is willing to help them out financially that OK. If they ahve friends who earn enough that they can help them out that OK too. This couple having 16 kids is something to marvel at not waste your time criticizing when you dont even know them, what they stand for or what they are about (besides some media titbits).
Nobody came knocking on your door asking you to feed them, clothe them or put them through school. Just appreciate the marvel of it all. WHateve rthe mother wants to do with her body, it is her own.
charlygirl
10-17-2005, 10:58 PM
I'll give you something worth criticizing -spellcheck spellcheck spellcheck Charly
Lilith
10-18-2005, 07:59 AM
NO. It affects the KIDS she's continuing to have. If you'd not snipped that line off from the rest of the paragraph it was explained. When she's having that many kids it's not just what she's doing with her body. It's what she's adding/taking away from her other kids' lives - namely, increased competition for mom's time and the very strong potential for her to be unable to give them what they need. geez Don't try to make it something it's not.
Snipped for brevity. Whether you liked the bit I quoted, it was still what you wrote. Any road, I've quoted the whole damn thing this time and it's still an issue of you thinking that the reproductive rights of another woman are your business. Give any reason you like, justify it by any means, you cannot escape the cold fact that your reasons and justifications are for considering it your business what another woman does with her body.
We've already heard firsthand evidence that parents of two are not immune to neglecting their children. Unless y'all suggest that we simply take all newborns and raise them in state-sanctioned government camps....
And Mast, since when is it healthy/fair for the older siblings to have to pick up mom/dad's slack??? We've read from other posters in this thread who had to deal with that and it's not good. I was also the oldest who had to act like a surrogate parent and it was NOT good for me either. Furthermore, a child isn't equipped to take care of another child properly or replace the attention/discipline of the parents, and may very likely come to resent the younger kids for making life difficult and therefore may mistreat/neglect them. Kids shouldn't be expected to take up parental duties because parents are too busy pumping out more kids. That's extremely selfish on the parents' part and unfair to the kids. Children need to be allowed to be kids and should be raised by PARENTS who have the time to do so.
That's the joy of parenting. You are free to decide how large or small (or non-existent) your family will be and what pet theories to teach your children - be it responsibility or Victorian manners or that Hispanics/Republicans/Republican Hispanics are evil - secure in the knowledge that your teenagers will want therapy and think you an idiot no matter what you do. What fun.
Mastridonicus
10-18-2005, 01:58 PM
Lilith, I disagree,
And the ONLY ONLY ONLY reason I do, understand, is IF <Note the IF> one child comes out and makes a point to mention that he/she is unhappy, then the government/society is going to be playing the neglect card.
Hell its hard to divide attention to 10 kids, how bout a classroom? in a 4 bedroom house?
I admit I have no experience to speak otherwise, but I look at that and see some kids may go a day or two without mom's full attention.
And bridgette, when did I ever say it was ok for the kids to pick up their parents slack? The environment I was referring to was the church who's daycare takes care of them, and donates moeny for their food and everything, you know, while the jobless 2 person one child family works off food stamps everyone is paying for. IMO its not fair to the good families living off the system because of hard times that a perfectly functional family has to birth their way into social financial dependancy upon others.
Same reason why I get pissed to see the pastor drive his lexus to church of visitors who buy gmc metros and hyundai accents :/
Just my 2 cents.
Mastridonicus
10-18-2005, 02:17 PM
Oh COME ON people. Just because your family consisted of many siblings and it didnt go well for you how can you make the same judgement on everyone who decides to go on and have more than 'whatever amount you think is right 'kids?
In china, the amount of children you can have is based on your financial ability to support them without the help of others. It turned out like that for a reason :/
WHat business is it of yours if your not paying for them? Im sure there many other families in this country who have had 12,13,14,15 kids who are not in the media who you wouldnt give two hoots about.
Its no more our business than whether or not Britney's diet will work for me. Fact is, you go on public tv, you appoint yourself to public opinion, right or wrong.
AND you're right, there probably are others, and each family deserves its own story before criticising but we know this family, and we know he's admitted to receiving financial support from his community and environment, tho I do applaud the community for supporting their decision, Don't you think he should feel the slightest bit of guilt knowing each child richly depends on your community's willingness to contribute to it? Doesn't seem to me like its affecting just him and her anymore :/ and don't worry it'll be on the tax payers when/if the charity runs out.
Give these people a break. If their church supports them and is against abortion, and in doing so is willing to help them out financially that OK. If they ahve friends who earn enough that they can help them out that OK too. This couple having 16 kids is something to marvel at not waste your time criticizing when you dont even know them, what they stand for or what they are about (besides some media titbits).
Again, they went on national television and the news. This means we can say feel how we want about it, and honesty, its a sign of Gluttony. I mean christ, these people are CHOOSING to put more of a financial strain on the community trying to help them. I garauntee the second one of those kids cries about feeling unloved, and alone, your tone would change. Hell I'm 900% sure that if the community refused to back them and they no longer could support their families and had to live off the system and/or have their family taken from them, you'd say they where bad parents. I just want to speak out before worst comes to worse.
Nobody came knocking on your door asking you to feed them, clothe them or put them through school. Just appreciate the marvel of it all. WHateve rthe mother wants to do with her body, it is her own.
You're right, no one did, and hopefully no one will, cause I'd probably donate. Its not the kid's fault after all. How can we not blame the child in this, yet not blame the parents, or even the community? And don't dilude yourself by saying "why do we have to blame anyone?" the answer is simple, when you are incapable of taking on the responsibility of your actions <I.E. having more children then you're admitingly able to afford> you should bear the repricussions. Look, understand that its not my business, nor do I think about it much outside of this convo, but look, My tone would change completely if I knew <which I dont so I assume otherwise> that if the community decided they would no longer help, that this family could function then, as it does today.
Secondly, I'd like to see a mother divide her attention up amoung 16 children who is still able to give each the attention they need, if not deserve. Its a moot point because that neglect has been happening irrigardless of the size of the family for years.
But you say one truth, who are we? sure we all have our own problems, and hell these aren't even problems. But that family is awefully selfish to continue having children if the community is helping in anymore than a quarter of the finances. Because if that family believes that charity is never going to run out, then they are using the community they are in for personal gain.
former_LV_dancer
10-18-2005, 02:32 PM
^^Agree with ya Mast.
When they agreed to be put on television and have their own website up....well, like it or not they have just opened up "their world" for criticism, opinion, praise, whatever it may be. Their lifestyle is not the norm, it's no suprise people have an opinion about it.
^ I agree with both of you (Mast and former_LV). Placing yourself in the media does allow criticism because not everyone will agree with the way they are living their lives and having children...blah blah...point is- I agree.
onlythebest
10-18-2005, 02:49 PM
These people are on crack.Why the f*ck would any couple want that many children???Being obsessed over inanimate objects is one thing,but apparently they have an unhealthy obession over having many children.That's just sick.
kitana
10-19-2005, 12:02 AM
WHat business is it of yours if your not paying for them?
It is my business since apparently I am paying for them. I pay out my fed and state taxes each and eery year, and where do you think part of my money goes to? Federal and state aid to people like this.
So yes, I do have a right to complain. I am helping them wether I want to or not.
I think it's freaky and wrong.
FL Dancer
10-19-2005, 10:17 AM
They were on my local TV again today saying they are already planning on having a 17th child.
Rhiannon
10-19-2005, 01:18 PM
^Yep.. They've been saying that ever since the 16th was born. When they were interviewed, they said it.
Phedre
10-19-2005, 03:12 PM
Oh sick, I just checked out the site. Those people are fucking looney! :crazy: I think I'm gonna lose my cookies :yuck: A cult is right!!!!
FL Dancer
10-19-2005, 03:25 PM
I took another look at their website curious to see their links. You can tell alot obout someone from their links ;) And wouldn't you know they have one for the Focus on the Family group. The guy that heads up that org. encourages beatings for kids as punishment.
Mastridonicus
10-19-2005, 06:39 PM
Know whats sick? I'll bet 1000000.00 that these people where encouraged by the church they wont stop mentioning to go on tv with it. I mean what, free nationwide tourist attraction marketing? I'm sure CNN is paying for kid #17