View Full Version : stripping talk on oprah
tanzania
11-01-2005, 11:29 PM
Okay I just watched the first ten minutes on stripping and I think that (notwithstanding the fact that Amberlee is a stupid name and the fact that she might be a priss), it does seem more about him going after she specifically said she had a problem with it. I'd be pissed just because it shows a lack of respect for her very specific request- it was basically a "fuck off". It has nothing to do with a fear of strippers or demonizing them or strip club patrons- it's about the terms of their relationship- if he couldn't handle the request or renegotiate the terms/carve out exceptions, he was being an deceptive ass. Period.
I agree the tone of the show is pretty priss.
whirlerz
11-02-2005, 05:14 AM
I missed it!:( Saw part of the show, but they were talking about, what do men think after sex (who cares;) ), other questions. I thought the whole show was gonna be about the why SC's question.
VenusGoddess
11-02-2005, 07:26 AM
Okay I just watched the first ten minutes on stripping and I think that (notwithstanding the fact that Amberlee is a stupid name and the fact that she might be a priss), it does seem more about him going after she specifically said she had a problem with it. I'd be pissed just because it shows a lack of respect for her very specific request- it was basically a "fuck off". It has nothing to do with a fear of strippers or demonizing them or strip club patrons- it's about the terms of their relationship- if he couldn't handle the request or renegotiate the terms/carve out exceptions, he was being an deceptive ass. Period.
I agree the tone of the show is pretty priss.
My problem is that she KNEW he liked to go and chose to get into the relationship with him, anyways. A lot of these problems would be alleviated if women would find their ideal man, in all ways, instead of liking someone and deciding that you can change him...and getting pissed off that he doesn't want to change.
Think, people! Accept who you're with or don't be with them! It's that simple.
Casual Observer
11-02-2005, 09:34 AM
A lot of these problems would be alleviated if women would find their ideal man, in all ways, instead of liking someone and deciding that you can change him...and getting pissed off that he doesn't want to change.
Think, people! Accept who you're with or don't be with them! It's that simple.
Amen.
<S> VG
scarlett_vancouver
11-02-2005, 09:46 AM
Call me a hypocrite but I would never want to be with a guy who wanted to frequent SCs.
I agree with this to an extent; there's a huge difference between going to a SC with the guys, and going regularly. If by frequent you mean visit frequently, then yeah. Once a month or so though? No big deal, imo.
My problem is that she KNEW he liked to go and chose to get into the relationship with him, anyways.
Venus, excellent point.
tanzania
11-02-2005, 10:52 AM
I see your point Venus but on the other hand I think that being in a serious relationships do involve sacrificing some of the self-indulgent hedonistic things that we enjoy while we're single. So I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some behavior to change once you get into a serious relationship.
For example- I have a boyfriend but I'm bisexual and prior to getting into this relationship I would seek out opportunities to engage in "harmless" girl fun- petting, flirting, making out and that's it. I'm sure that in some relationships, this conduct wouldn't bat an eyelash (some guys would even encourage it) but my boyfriend considers it cheating, so guess what- I don't do it. I choose to make that sacrifice because the relationship is more important than having limitless sexual freedoms. It I broke this term and engaged in the behavior, I'd be cheating, regardless of how strongly I believed the conduct would not effect my relationship. If I cheated, I wouldn't blame it on repressed sexuality but on my being selfish. If the expectation (of not messing with girls or going to SCs) was so unreasonable, you shouldn't agree to it to begin with.
siliconedoll
11-02-2005, 11:05 AM
The only thing women hate more than being a sexual object is not being a sexual object. That's a fact, Jack.
.
So damn true!
VenusGoddess
11-02-2005, 12:06 PM
I see your point Venus but on the other hand I think that being in a serious relationships do involve sacrificing some of the self-indulgent hedonistic things that we enjoy while we're single. So I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some behavior to change once you get into a serious relationship.
For example- I have a boyfriend but I'm bisexual and prior to getting into this relationship I would seek out opportunities to engage in "harmless" girl fun- petting, flirting, making out and that's it. I'm sure that in some relationships, this conduct wouldn't bat an eyelash (some guys would even encourage it) but my boyfriend considers it cheating, so guess what- I don't do it. I choose to make that sacrifice because the relationship is more important than having limitless sexual freedoms. It I broke this term and engaged in the behavior, I'd be cheating, regardless of how strongly I believed the conduct would not effect my relationship. If I cheated, I wouldn't blame it on repressed sexuality but on my being selfish. If the expectation (of not messing with girls or going to SCs) was so unreasonable, you shouldn't agree to it to begin with.
But, that is YOUR choice. How would you like some guy that you like coming up to you and saying, "I know you're bi and all...but I don't ever want to see you flirting with, much less looking at, another woman."
There are people who are very conservative in their relationships. Those people need to find people who are like-minded. Someone who is against porn, SC's, etc. is not going to be happy in a relationship with someone who enjoys indulging in those things.
The very fact that you think that someone should "sacrifice" anything in a relationship tells me that you probably have never been "truly happy" in a long-term relationship. Scorpio LOVES fishing...in fact, during the peak fishing times of the year, I would call myself a fishing widow. But, I will never tell him that he cannot leave for long fishing weekends. I love Yoga, and I will go (in the future) to 3-4 day long Yoga retreats...and he will never tell me that I cannot go. The only "sacrifice" people make is to themselves. You are sacrificing your sanity and your own "self" by trying to believe that by giving up the things you like so you can be with someone, you'll be happy.
It's all bullshit.
That's why there is no such thing as "sacrifice" in a truly happy relationship. If you do not agree with what the person wants, then you must be willing to leave. There's no such thing as "Oh, I'll make him/her change." Demanding change will only foster more problems on down the road. You either accept the person, wholly and completely, for who they are or you do not. There is no "picking and choosing".
doc-catfish
11-02-2005, 12:19 PM
I see your point Venus but on the other hand I think that being in a serious relationships do involve sacrificing some of the self-indulgent hedonistic things that we enjoy while we're single. So I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some behavior to change once you get into a serious relationship.
"Women marry men hoping they will change. Men marry women hoping they will not. So each is inevitably disappointed." - Albert Einstein
LilSweetVixen
11-02-2005, 01:01 PM
I was referring to how men tend to place women into catergories making them either good girls or bad girls and really I'd be pissed about a guy lumping me into the category of good girl (frigid) and thus finding it necessary to seek out sexuality that he could get at home.
A man who does that will do that regardless of whether or not he goes to SCs. He could take any vanilla prude from the burbs and turn her into "the whore". The only thing that's needed to ensure she's the whore is her lack of awareness that he has a stable girlfriend.
Plus you're his girlfriend, you're obviously doing more shit than a stripper. You guys are bangin it out, why would he think you're a prude, especially if he knows you yourself used to strip? Just don't pick a guy who has a virgin-whore complex.
LilSweetVixen
11-02-2005, 01:22 PM
The only thing women hate more than being a sexual object is not being a sexual object. That's a fact, Jack.
Bottom line, shit is a fact. These same women will say it's degrading and then be mad their husbands didn't notice when they did the same thing. Or talk about "those whores" (read: attractive woman) and then complain how they do "the same shit for free". (Heh heh). Usually older women, strange coincidence. Magic words: SHELF LIFE. We put a man on the moon, if these women could put away their pacifiers we could figure out how to make them look at least as hot as their dads.
SCs do indeed have an effect on relationships--usually those with some degree of mutual distrust, insecurity, incompatibility or some combination thereof.
Don't forget hypocrisy, stark ignorance, lack of establishment of an existing relationship...
tanzania
11-02-2005, 01:29 PM
So are you saying that you've made no changes in your sexual conduct after getting into a relationship? Seriously? Cause that's all I'm talking about. Under your logic, it's stupid to expect a man to refrain from sleeping with others (afterall, that's a change, no?). You can call it sacrifice or compromise or whatever term you want but the bottom line is with respect to sexuality, people getting into a relationship expect some ground rules to be establish which necessarily involve changing behavior. The obvious one (for most people I guess) is don't fuck other people. Beyond that, what the rules may be vary from different people but the point is that you simply do not act exactly the way I was if I were single. Not because I have someone telling me what I can't do (like was the case with Amberlee)but because that's an integral part of having a relationship, respecting each others wishes or finding someone else that has your viewpoint. Like you said, it's about finding someone who has the same views on the matter. The point I'm making is that if you're saying she was stupid for even getting involved with him knowing that he likes stripclubs, I disagree because simply because you like doing something while single doesn't mean you'll want to do it when in a relationship. And I'm very happy in my relationship and have zero desire to cheat at all so it's not a sacrifice in the strictest sence.
Really I think we're talking about two different things with respect to change.
logan820
11-02-2005, 03:10 PM
Obviously people make changes in sexual conduct when they are in a committed relationship, or it wouldn't be a relationship. There shouldn't be a so called sacrifice in a relationship, or you will just resent the person in the long run. Yes we do change our "single" behaviors, like hooking up when we go out w/ our friends. In your case w/ your bf you shouldn't be kissing anyone else girl or guy bisexual or not. It shouldn't be a "sacrifice" not to kiss people when u r in a commited relationship. It should be something you no longer desire to do b/c your intimate needs are being met by someone. In Amberlee's case, her man went to SC's b/f they dated. He isn't fucking anyone, he is looking @ strippers and hanging w/ his friends. Her telling him not to go only makes him want to go more. For example my ex was constantly working long hours, I thought he would cut his hours down b/c he loved me, and wanted to be w/ me. This is who he was, and he wasn't going to change. The same thing w/ going to a SC. I can see your point w/ lapdances. I wouldn't want my bf to get a lapdance either. ( I can give one!) haha. No really, lapdances are a whole different story. That wasn't clarified in the show, she just didn't want him there all together. WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL? IF YOU ARE SECURE WITH YOURSELF YOU DON'T CARE WHO HE LOOKS AT!
Wait now, those women on Oprah were experts, especially about sex and of course they have NEVER been in a strip club. Heavens no, all the so called hookers work there. Just because they take off their clothes that means they will have sex and LIKE it, a lot. * eye roll *
All those nasty men in there LOOKING at naked women - makes all the civilian women uncomfortable because they ( the naked women) have such an open minded and non prudish attitude toward sexual matters. Not to mention that most strippers have heard every line in the book and then some. So ninety percent of them are really hard to bag.
Plus, the actual bottom line is - if you get with an individual and find out you don't like some of his/her behavior they had before there was a commitment, that sounds like a personal problem. Sincere love does not wish to change. Love wants to be with.
If you find your ideal partner you found has issues and habits you do not care for, obviously that person was not ideal after all.
Close mindedness breeds paranoia and insecurity.
It looks like Amberlee or whatever the heck her name was also is not very educated on this matter. I doubt seriously that she has ever set foot in a strip club or "pleased herself" with a vibrator. Perhaps she should, then she might not be so tightly wrapped.
R
skanklover
11-02-2005, 05:40 PM
How many marriages have been saved by strippers and strip clubs? Mine actually evolved and became better when my wife and I went. At first she was disgusted by the men, some of whom were trying to pick her up because she was a civilian women in a club and must of course be kinky, but she liked the girls and how cute and playful they were. Since there are lots of different types of women in clubs she was able to gage my reaction to them. One thing she noticed is that I happen to like skanky women...or rather women who ACT that way. I had never communicated that to her, not even really knowing myself, but she found after some conversations with the professionals in the club what to say and do if thats what she thought I would like. So now my beautiful sexy wife becomes naughty and I like it. So, instead of talking about the evils of naked women or sex, lets talk of the positive things that can happen in a relationship when something new and exciting is added.
Krazyjane
11-02-2005, 07:07 PM
As for using strip club visitation as a judge of character:
If my man went to strip clubs, it wouldn't be the women that I'd worry about, it would be other men. In strip clubs or other places where normal public scrutiny doesn't apply, men act differently, and I'd be afraid that he'd learn that groping and other things were ok as long as nobody's there to call him a mysogynistic pig. However, my bf has a couple friends who are stripping their way through college and knows that strippers are (GASP!) normal people with feelings and dignity, so I don't worry about him being a closet sex offender in a club.
I've found that a man's behavior in a strip club is an excellent indicator of one's true colors, and I wouldn't date a man who would be a grabby, disrespectful pig in a club b/c it shows that he's not a genuinely nice, respectful person, but an ostentatious jerk who only cares about public opinion. If he thinks that groping a stripper is ok b/c, "Strippers are easy, available sluts and not "real women" who deserve respect," then he's going to dodge responsibility elsewhere in situations that he doesn't think apply to him. If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around, it will make a noise.
In short, I don't care where my man gets his appetite as long as he does his eating at home and doesn't start food fights anywhere.
jumblies
11-02-2005, 07:33 PM
Women who are dating men who fit their ideal are too busy enjoying themselves to have time to watch Oprah, read women's magazines or buy these expert's crappy books.
True dat. I read Maxim...which, coincidentally, has an article this month about the 100 Things You Need to Know About Women, including how women want a "fixer-upper"....screw that, I'm all about move-in ready, Baby! :)
That reminds me, time to write that letter to Maxim disputing a few of those 100...