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Madcap
12-12-2005, 07:34 PM
The supream court fell through. Tookie is getting the needle, not that he had a real chance of avoiding it.

Rhiannon
12-12-2005, 07:46 PM
Yep.. They rejected last minute appeals filed by his attorneys. GOOD ON THEM! I read that after the guilty verdict was read years ago, he looked at the jurors and mouthed: "I'm going to get each and every one of you motherfu****."

Nice.. Real nice.

Plus all of the shit he's attempted or actually done since he's been in prison. Like escape attempts, murders, etc..

The world will be a whole lot better with one less fuckwad in it. Sayonara, Douchebag.

Little over 5 hours to go.. Tick tock, tick tock.

Madcap
12-12-2005, 07:49 PM
Yep.. They rejected last minute appeals filed by his attorneys. GOOD ON THEM! I read that after the guilty verdict was read years ago, he looked at the jurors and mouthed: "I'm going to get each and every one of you motherfu****."

Nice.. Real nice.

Plus all of the shit he's attempted or actually done since he's been in prison. Like escape attempts, murders, etc..

The world will be a whole lot better with one less fuckwad in it. Sayonara, Douchebag.

Little over 5 hours to go.. Tick tock, tick tock.

Ever the sentimentalist... :)

big_daddy
12-12-2005, 09:03 PM
Yep.. They rejected last minute appeals filed by his attorneys. GOOD ON THEM! I read that after the guilty verdict was read years ago, he looked at the jurors and mouthed: "I'm going to get each and every one of you motherfu****."

Nice.. Real nice.

Plus all of the shit he's attempted or actually done since he's been in prison. Like escape attempts, murders, etc..

The world will be a whole lot better with one less fuckwad in it. Sayonara, Douchebag.

Little over 5 hours to go.. Tick tock, tick tock.

Yeah!

madmaxine
12-12-2005, 10:13 PM
I love Rhiannon! LOL

"They" are crazy Californians. I was raised in CA & will freely admit this state is full of nutjobs. & Yes, riots are cyclical here....LOL....really nothing to laugh about.....

PhaedrusZ
12-13-2005, 12:40 AM
I've always had conflicting viewpoints re: the death penalty - on the one hand, if you kill someone, then in most cases, the only "restitution" available, if you can describe it as that, is forfeiture of your own life-at least in the case of premeditation to commit murder, or where murder, even if unplanned, becomes associated with other violent crimes. On the other hand, there are a number of innocent people who have been executed in the past.

I've only skimmed through the posts here, and I'm sure several others have already made this point. But if someone is truly deserving of the Nobel Peace Prize, then I would expect him to do every possible thing he could to prevent any riots - whether he were to receive clemency or see his life ended - it wouldn't matter to him which fate he receives.

Too many things running through my mind about this rignt now - I'll try to post again when I'm not so sleepy.

MrChristopher
12-13-2005, 01:42 AM
I'll just drunkenly weigh in and say this: I am not in favor, nor am I against the death penalty. I tend to have very situational ethics about this issue, and I don't think it's ever absolute. Killing people who kill people to prove etc etc. I also recently read a paper somewhere about the ineffectiveness of our death penalty system since it is so rarely carried out, and, like in this instance, even if it is, it's almost 30 years later. That being said....someone show me where anywhere in anyone's sentence ever it says: "Well...we're sentencing you to death. Oh, but hey, write a few kid's books, maybe do a public service announcement, and make some powerful political friends while behind bars and we'll pretend you didnt shoot a guy twice in the back with a shotgun and then laugh about it" What a great blueprint for a society that would be. I dunno. It's a shitty situation all around. I honestly wouldnt be unsatisfied with life in prison if he wasnt such a cause celebre for so many scumbags. And that makes it seem like a victory to them, as well.

MrChristopher
12-13-2005, 01:44 AM
PS: It's 3:43 am on the east coast....so is he dead? Or did I read it wrong and it's tomorrow night?

Rhiannon
12-13-2005, 01:49 AM
Yes he is.

PaigeDWinter
12-13-2005, 03:00 AM
Egads. Double egads for being denied clemency by an actor who things he can govern.

Tart
12-13-2005, 03:33 AM
Stanley "Tookie" Williams

personally the least he could have done is "do" something good with what was given as his last bit of life. he wrote some kids books.

One sold 300 copies

the other only 100.

He found god...

Reflection is great .

I do believe in the death sentence. More so with sex crimes . But honestly he murdered people. Period point fucking blank.

however, he gave them no say so. You have to pay your dues ...

They left behind families ..brothers and sisters .

He played god one day. now with the same "right" the system will play god.

how's that go .. an " eye for an eye ..a tooth for a tooth. "


eviticus 24:17 And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.
18 And he that killeth a beast shall make it good; beast for beast.
19 And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him;
20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.
21 And he that killeth a beast, he shall restore it: and he that killeth a man, he shall be put to death.


he believes in the bible now he should remember that verse.

PaigeDWinter
12-13-2005, 03:43 AM
Well if we're going to go back to An Eye For An Eye, then I think there are MANY crimes that should be legalized. Murder being one of them.



*shrugs*

Tart
12-13-2005, 03:51 AM
im just makign the point that he's busy thumping a bible so he should recall all bits and pieces not just the ones that suit him.

Im by no means a bible thumper. and by no means his judge and jury..or god for that matter.

But people lose sight that this is about those that left behind a family.. a life that never really lived. People.

And him being put to death is murder if you want to get technical. Killing someone is murder.

Heaven
12-13-2005, 04:04 AM
Very sad

Kat_onahot_tinroof
12-13-2005, 06:56 AM
He killed how many people in cold blood? I'm sorry, I don't care how much he's changed... none of that changes what he did. Time to pay the bill if you ask me.


Well they finally injected him last night. So no turning back. I guess the thing that was on my mind on this whole ordeal was, he would never admit to his crimes or apologize publicly to the families. My question was what evidence did they convict him on, and if he was found guilty based on this evidence, and truly guilty. His whole mantra was that he was a changed man. With that being said he should have demonstrated that with coming clean on his crimes and making his apologies to the families. It's a tragedy all the way around for everyone. I cannot judge this man for I don't know all the facts none of us do, only what the media and LE feed us. However I feel for the families of the victims and also for his family as well.

He was the founder of the Crips, but I don't think he had as strong a hold on them as everyone thinks. I'm not so sure the riots will come to much fruition... I think most of this was saber rattling at best... just my 02

Kat_onahot_tinroof
12-13-2005, 07:07 AM
PS: It's 3:43 am on the east coast....so is he dead? Or did I read it wrong and it's tomorrow night?


I know this is off topic, but just gotta say this...! Love your Avatar! I'm a big fan of illwillpress.com ;D

PhaedrusZ
12-13-2005, 07:15 AM
...what makes this all the more interesting is to see how things will go down on Tookie Williams' execution, versus the execution of the next scheduled California 'death row' inmate 'Fresno County crime lord and white supremacist' Clarence Ray Allen...

...My personal opinion ... both Williams and Allen should have been put to death a couple of decades ago ! Many more people would still be alive today if this had been the case.

At the following website opposing the death penalty

http://www.deathpenalty.org

you will find the following pdf file download

http://www.deathpenalty.org/pdf_files/ClarenceRayAllen.pdf

Interesting because Clarence Ray Allen is not identified as a "white supremacist" here, but as a Native American who may not have received a fair trial because all of the victims were white and he was tried in "a rural, predominately white county."

I'm rather confused, to say the least, as to how he can be referred to as a "white supremacist" at several other links I've skimmed, and then be identified as a "Native American" at this one.


There is also another other link with an article, "Inside Death Row," about the 647 convicted murderers awaiting execution in California

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/11/20/INGFUFHCFL56.DTL

wherein it is briefly mentioned the "Night Stalker" murderer, Richard Ramirez, "still receives fan mail from adoring women," and also exposes himself to children in the visiting area at the prison!

Kat_onahot_tinroof
12-13-2005, 07:18 AM
I'll just drunkenly weigh in and say this: I am not in favor, nor am I against the death penalty. I tend to have very situational ethics about this issue, and I don't think it's ever absolute. Killing people who kill people to prove etc etc. I also recently read a paper somewhere about the ineffectiveness of our death penalty system since it is so rarely carried out, and, like in this instance, even if it is, it's almost 30 years later. That being said....someone show me where anywhere in anyone's sentence ever it says: "Well...we're sentencing you to death. Oh, but hey, write a few kid's books, maybe do a public service announcement, and make some powerful political friends while behind bars and we'll pretend you didnt shoot a guy twice in the back with a shotgun and then laugh about it" What a great blueprint for a society that would be. I dunno. It's a shitty situation all around. I honestly wouldnt be unsatisfied with life in prison if he wasnt such a cause celebre for so many scumbags. And that makes it seem like a victory to them, as well.


In reading this, I certainly have to say your words have merit. Our penal system has been broken for a long time. The thing I have the most issue with concerning our judicial/penal system is that in our country we are slowly making criminals out of civilians who have no place there. In addition, we have created in our society a vicious cycle of traumatized individuals who get caught up in the system for small offenses... or in my opinion offenses that ultimately destroy their lives, and some of these individuals feel a sense of hopelessness. Continuing a life of crime they feel destined to continue with no way out. I ask you, how does this help our society??

Then there is the mentally ill, who have no place in the penal system. That's an issue on it's own. Society creates it's own monsters, and then we wonder why we have the crime rates we have, or why people snap after they are released from prison after serving their time... well hell, noone wants to give them a second chance, or a shot at a decent life. They are paying for their crimes for the rest of their lives.

Then there are the people who have been wrongly convicted. This is such a common occurrence that the government does it's best to keep it out of the media.
What happens to these people? Do you really think that the very few that get public attention and are released lead normal lives afterwards? The answer is no. I always wondered why the media didn't do a follow up of these people years later to see what happened to them after all the hoopla of their vindicated release.

Some things to think about..... :-\

hannah83
12-13-2005, 11:39 AM
sooo...to those of you living in LA...how are things out there? Any riots or is it pretty calm?

Vyanka
12-13-2005, 11:51 AM
I agree with Yekhefah and Sirona. The execution should go ahead as scheduled. I don't care how much he's changed, no amount of "good" he's done in jail can take back the bad he did or replace the lives he took out of the world to get him there.

agreed with all of you.

I feel for ever lives near that area though. If riots occur. :-\

doc-catfish
12-13-2005, 11:55 AM
sooo...to those of you living in LA...how are things out there? Any riots or is it pretty calm?
Sounds like the Crips didn't make good on their threat (yet). It would have been all over the news otherwise.

One good thing about executions, namely these high profile exectuions (Gary Graham, John Wayne Gacy, and Karla Faye Tucker come to mind) is that once they're over, the undeserved media attention that they get dissapates rather quickly. Frankly, I never understood why Tookie's case was that exceptional.

kitana
12-13-2005, 12:07 PM
See and if everyone would just do as I ask, we wouldn't have even had this convo.

The assfucker would have been killed the same day he was sentenced.

Now for people with a little less proof and no confession, the execution would be stalled for a while.

But for those ass bitches who contunally break the law, and then confess fry their nasty asses ASAP!!! I sure the fuck don't wanna pay for them to have cable, the net, a warm bed, food, water, gym, etc.... They DO NOT DESERVE IT! THEY GAVE UP THEIR RIGHTS WHEN THEY TOOK ANOTHER LIFE IN COLD BLOOD.

Better than frying them, bring back hanging! Use a steel cable, so you can re-use it damn near forever!

Yekhefah
12-13-2005, 12:10 PM
sooo...to those of you living in LA...how are things out there? Any riots or is it pretty calm?

So far, so good. I'm glad I'm not still dancing downtown though.

Melonie
12-13-2005, 03:12 PM
I'm rather confused, to say the least, as to how he can be referred to as a "white supremacist" at several other links I've skimmed, and then be identified as a "Native American" at this one.

Some would argue that the 'innocent mistake' by mainstream media of reporting (over and over again) that Clarence Ray Williams was a 'white supremacist', as well as the 'innocent mistake' by mainstream media of reporting that Tookie's books had been submitted for a Nobel Prize in literature, and reporting Tookie's 'invaluable' efforts to sway black youths away from gang culture, but NOT reporting that Tookie's total book sales never numbered beyond a few hundred copies, illustrates some ulterior motive at work on the part of mainstream media to create very different images of these two men in the mind of the general public.

lunchbox
12-13-2005, 04:27 PM
my two cents:

Cent 1 - Not trying to rake the coals over a dead man, but to believe he was only guilty of the listed murders is ridiculous. Did he really expect us to believe a gang leader murdered only 4 civilians in his entire life? Not to mention the legacy his gang leaves behind. Even if he had accepted his fate and been truly repentant, I would not have believed it without a few confessions.

Cent 2 - I suspect that the "executing someone costs more than it does to inprison them for life" is a biased statement that has been abused. I'm willing to bet its the total cost of execution vs. just the average cost to provide for inmates basic needs.

As far as frivoulous lawsuits go, if you dig enough, you will find in some places that therapy for inmates was found to infringe upon their civil rights.

PhaedrusZ
12-13-2005, 06:08 PM
sooo...to those of you living in LA...how are things out there? Any riots or is it pretty calm?
Pretty calm where I live, which isn't part of the city of Los Angeles. I've not heard anything about the area which would be "ground zero," but I live a pretty good distance from it. You have to remember Los Angeles County is approximately 4,084 square miles, which isn't exactly small!

Yekhefah
12-13-2005, 06:15 PM
Where do you live, Phaedrus? I'm in Hollywood.

Deogol
12-13-2005, 07:13 PM
See and if everyone would just do as I ask, we wouldn't have even had this convo.

The assfucker would have been killed the same day he was sentenced.

Now for people with a little less proof and no confession, the execution would be stalled for a while.

But for those ass bitches who contunally break the law, and then confess fry their nasty asses ASAP!!! I sure the fuck don't wanna pay for them to have cable, the net, a warm bed, food, water, gym, etc.... They DO NOT DESERVE IT! THEY GAVE UP THEIR RIGHTS WHEN THEY TOOK ANOTHER LIFE IN COLD BLOOD.

Better than frying them, bring back hanging! Use a steel cable, so you can re-use it damn near forever!

I sense a Nancy Grace fan here....

(If anyone ever wonder's where Nancy Grace's venom comes from - she became a lawyer (and prosecuter) because her boyfriend was murdered. The woman has a mission in life.)

LilSweetVixen
12-13-2005, 07:25 PM
Some would argue that the 'innocent mistake' by mainstream media of reporting (over and over again) that Clarence Ray Williams was a 'white supremacist', as well as the 'innocent mistake' by mainstream media of reporting that Tookie's books had been submitted for a Nobel Prize in literature, and reporting Tookie's 'invaluable' efforts to sway black youths away from gang culture, but NOT reporting that Tookie's total book sales never numbered beyond a few hundred copies, illustrates some ulterior motive at work on the part of mainstream media to create very different images of these two men in the mind of the general public.

I agree but I just want to point out these 'innocent mistakes' aren't all left in leaning. There was the innocent mistake of claiming that Stanley Williams had two sons, one Lafayette Something (who's last name is not even Williams) and one Stanley "Tookie" Williams Jr (as if there would be two people named "Tookie" when the whole point of naming a guy something like Tookie, Smitty, or Suge is to personally distinguish him from all others), both of whom miraculously committed crimes, that surfaced at the same time as this whole frenzy. There was also the 'innocent mistake' of claiming Williams refused to be debriefed, when, had he refused, he would still be in solitary confinement. So I think it's a combination of exaggerated claims on the part of the defendants' lawyers who comb all hairs to make sure that clemency is impossible, PR campaigns, conspiracy theorists, lay people who like starting rumors, and the media that banks on dragging out every sensation until it hurts.

I personally don't think Allen is either a white supremacist or a Choctaw Indian. After all, he murdered four whites. I think he's a white man who may happen to be a lay racist the same way Tookie also happened to be a lay racist.

DylanAngel
12-13-2005, 07:47 PM
See and if everyone would just do as I ask, we wouldn't have even had this convo.

The assfucker would have been killed the same day he was sentenced.

Now for people with a little less proof and no confession, the execution would be stalled for a while.

But for those ass bitches who contunally break the law, and then confess fry their nasty asses ASAP!!! I sure the fuck don't wanna pay for them to have cable, the net, a warm bed, food, water, gym, etc.... They DO NOT DESERVE IT! THEY GAVE UP THEIR RIGHTS WHEN THEY TOOK ANOTHER LIFE IN COLD BLOOD.

Better than frying them, bring back hanging! Use a steel cable, so you can re-use it damn near forever!

Well said and my f'ing thoughts exactly.

**Dream**
12-24-2005, 12:19 AM
Some people may disagree with me, but it's ok. A person who has opinions is what makes them person an individual.

This is a damn shame. I personally don't agree with the death penalty. But in America I guess we call this justice as they did 400+ years ago. The least I can say about this man is at least he made actions to redirect the minds of young teens. It was more than just some one saying" I'm a change man." But have nothing to prove it. Yes what he did was very wrong, and immoral. But instead of people pointing the fingers at his past and what he has build. I have a question, Are you trying trying to make a difference in this community againist gang violence? Are you trying to educate young (black&latino) kids about the dangers of the streets?? I know I make contributions. What this man has done for his community after changing his life around is some thing that I think people do not care to look at. Wheter if he touched one kid, or one gang member into changing their life around. Or if he sold 50 books, at least he tried.

And what I don't understand is the young crips who say they nothing about Tookie. Well thats a crook of s**t. Why get into some thing that you do not know the history of? For example I'm Hip Hop. I couldn't call my self that not unless if I was aware of it's history and all 7 elements that go with culture, right? Exactly.

But hey with out the death penalty our jails and prisons would be cluttered with criminals any ways. So kill them all why don't cha! Or should I say hang them all! It's f**cking bulls**t!!!!

MojoJojo
12-24-2005, 12:43 AM
Actually, the death penalty takes a long time to execute, and the quantity is not that high. I can only oppose the death penalty because currently, we are finding that a fair numb er of people we thought were gulty, actually are not.....thanks to DNA testing.

That said, Tookie is not someone who was innocent. His actions (creating the Crips) still results in death. That's a major accomplishment on his part, and I see no reason for him to continue to exist. Good riddance.

And why don't the current crips know the history of their own gang? Please....if they cared to learn, then they would do so in school.

LoveSexMoney
12-24-2005, 10:33 AM
I thought that the gang you (kids) joined was pretty much determined by what neighborhood you (they) lived in, not by careful research of its history of inception.

Rhiannon
12-24-2005, 10:52 AM
That's what I think too, Saph. Do gang members really care about the history of a specific gang? I don't imagine so. Their only concern is creating chaos and shooting people up. I wouldn't expect them to be educated, or they wouldn't join a gang in the first place.

**Dream**
12-24-2005, 04:16 PM
Well I just thought it was funny that they didn't know who their co founder was. I guess it's just some thing to know. But yeah most kids join gangs for protection, so why would they care about the history of it. It's just sad how these kids shoot each other over what set their from. It's just sad. But maybe I would have to had been in the families shoes to wish death upon some one.

NaughtyAngel
12-24-2005, 04:44 PM
What this man has done for his community after changing his life around is some thing that I think people do not care to look at. Wheter if he touched one kid, or one gang member into changing their life around. Or if he sold 50 books, at least he tried.




Exactly. Now these gang bangers will think twice about murdering innocent people because if they do they will end up like Tookie after he murdered four innocent people. That is... on death row then after that DEATH. So yes... Tookie did a lot to help gang banging kids. Now they will think twice perhaps three or four times that if they do what he did they will get the death penalty like how he did.

Melonie
01-17-2006, 12:13 PM
All that said, just because the idiots that hand out Nobel prizes to every leftist celebrity that piques their interest love Mr. Williams, that should have no bearing whatsoever on the equal application of the law under the 14th Amendment. If Mr. Williams is not executed, what is it saying to those sitting on California's death row? What does it say to the rest of us? It says, a la the George Orwell book, Animal Farm, that some prisoners are more equal than others


Forgive me for resurrecting the Tookie thread. However, as I pointed out when this thread was new, California death row murderer Clarence Ray Allen was the next scheduled California death row execution ... which occurred this morning



It's extremely curious that there was a total absence of outcry from the Hollywood Elite, from the Reverends Jackson, Sharpton et al, from mainstream media figures etc. in regard to Allen's execution versus Tookie's. This is despite the fact that Clarence Ray Allen had spent 25 years on death row (arguably grounds for 'cruel and unusual punishment' in and of itself), was 76 years old, and would probably have died of another heart attack within a matter of months. It would indeed appear that some prisoners are more equal than others. Fortunately, that difference in equality did not extend to the Governor's office !
~

Rhiannon
01-17-2006, 12:18 PM
You've brought up a very interesting question, Melonie..

Melonie
01-17-2006, 12:36 PM
You've brought up a very interesting question, Melonie..

Well, the next prisoner on the California death row execution list is Michael Morales, whose time runs out next month. It will be curious to see if Morales gets the silent treatment like Allen, or gets the 'liberal dog and pony show' like Williams !

doc-catfish
01-17-2006, 12:39 PM
It's extremely curious that there was a total absence of outcry from the Hollywood Elite, from the Reverends Jackson, Sharpton et al, from mainstream media figures etc. in regard to Allen's execution versus Tookie's.
I'm pretty sure Mr. Allen won't have Snoop Dogg, Tony Robbins, and 2,000 other people at his funeral either.
:loco:

LilSweetVixen
01-17-2006, 03:25 PM
It's extremely curious that there was a total absence of outcry from the Hollywood Elite, from the Reverends Jackson, Sharpton et al, from mainstream media figures etc. in regard to Allen's execution versus Tookie's. This is despite the fact that Clarence Ray Allen had spent 25 years on death row (arguably grounds for 'cruel and unusual punishment' in and of itself), was 76 years old, and would probably have died of another heart attack within a matter of months.

It's very annoying. They both killed 4 people. In fact Allen only killed 1 and ordered 3. Tookie did all 4 himself. Plus Allen was accused of being a white supremacist even though none of his crimes were racially motivated, while Tookie played the race card in spite of the fact that he called his victims Buddhaheads and white boy. Makes the political left look beyond ridicule. I think it just boiled down to the celebrity aura of being an Original Crips Gangsta, the prospect of book and movie deals, plus the Nobel Peace Prize nominations, and the alledged service to the community. All came together in a very coincidental and cosmic fashion but thankfully although also a movie star, the Governor was above the smoke and mirrors display.

Deogol
01-17-2006, 05:11 PM
It's very annoying. They both killed 4 people. In fact Allen only killed 1 and ordered 3. Tookie did all 4 himself. Plus Allen was accused of being a white supremacist even though none of his crimes were racially motivated, while Tookie played the race card in spite of the fact that he called his victims Buddhaheads and white boy. Makes the political left look beyond ridicule. I think it just boiled down to the celebrity aura of being an Original Crips Gangsta, the prospect of book and movie deals, plus the Nobel Peace Prize nominations, and the alledged service to the community. All came together in a very coincidental and cosmic fashion but thankfully although also a movie star, the Governor was above the smoke and mirrors display.

I think more and more people are seeing the left as kooks... why? Because they are starting to turn into kooks.

We have "race sensitive" democrats throwing oreo cookies at black republicans and referring to asian conservatives as "banana's."

Read Michelle Malkin's "Unhinged" where she prints the horrible racist hate mail she receives from "people of the left" - as well the mugshots on her site: I have yet to get a copy of this book - it seems sold out all over.

Then there is "Liberal Hypocrisy" book. I read this an ya know - for people who do a lot of talking - what they do is astounding and vulgar to their "message."

I didn't want to vote for Bush (and I didn't) but I sure in the hell wasn't going to vote for the democrats with these goofballs making the political policy and plays.

You can go to and see videos of "pro-democrat" (and pro-communist) people just not making any sense at all. You encounter people on the videos on that site who suppossedly are for "love and compassion" and they are the most HATEFUL people I have ever seen.

Well... we shall see what the next execution brings in terms of social commentary. If another tookie circus shows up, I am gonna ask the question why Allen didn't get the same stunts.

PhaedrusZ
01-18-2006, 05:02 AM
Forgive me for resurrecting the Tookie thread. However, as I pointed out when this thread was new, California death row murderer Clarence Ray Allen was the next scheduled California death row execution ... which occurred this morning...

...This is despite the fact that Clarence Ray Allen had spent 25 years on death row (arguably grounds for 'cruel and unusual punishment' in and of itself), was 76 years old, and would probably have died of another heart attack within a matter of months. It would indeed appear that some prisoners are more equal than others. Fortunately, that difference in equality did not extend to the Governor's office !~

One of our L.A. radio newscasters described Clarence Ray Allen as "the poster boy for the death penalty" due to his having arranged for "murders by proxy" while he was already incarcerated. It is interesting, though, that he was described as being partially blind, deaf, confined to a wheelchair and suffering from both diabetes and heart disease. It almost makes you wonder, if his health was so very poor, if it could be argued this was leaning more towards euthanasia than an execution!

madmaxine
01-18-2006, 06:21 PM
****Warning: RANT*****

Mr. Allen's crimes occured locally (Fresno Co.) and I got p*ssed off at seeing his face on the front page WITH A NATIVE AMERICAN HEADBAND on it.....My contention during the Tookie Williams execution fiasco was that "there are sociopaths in every social strata.." & having ethnic blood does not qualify one for sainthood....I am pointing this out because it was nothing special about Allen's bloodline, it was a common circumstance among poor whites & Native Americans in the US to interbreed from the late 1800s on ......Now I hate the ACLU for besmirching the generally noble name of American Indians to get a psycho off the hook...shame, shame!!!!
PS According to reporter accounts, Allen WALKED of his own voiliton to the lethal injection bed...compare that end to the sudden, cruel and painful deaths of his victims....We (State of CA) were too kind.